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Motherhood, Career & Identity: How to Thrive Without Burning Out · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Today, I am delighted to be chatting with Gifty Enright, who is a recognised global expert in workplace wellbeing, diversity and leadership.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: She is also a published author.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Her book is called Octopus on a Treadmill and she is also a TED Talk speaker as well.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm here in the presence of royalty.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for joining me, gupta.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure to chat with you.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me and, interesting.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: You should mention royalty.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I am no royalty, but back home in Africa I am actually, so maybe I can join that, I am.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I am Good to know that.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's in my book.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It's in my book my great, great grandmother.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: She was a queen mother of a village called Edrusu in Ghana, and, yes, so you know tenuous as the link may be, I can lay claim to royalty in distant lands.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, well done to you and your, was it?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Great grandma, great grandmother, great grandmother, love that.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I met gifty.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: We did a panel, didn't we?
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Um about building business, and gifty was a mate.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: You were incredible.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Everyone loved you and you, like you, were doing all these mic drop moments, so I was like I have to speak to you and get you on the podcast, because it was just absolutely brilliant.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Everyone was enthralled.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: So so thank you, thank you so much the book.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: why did you call it Octopus on a Treadmill?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And so I have to come clean.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: The title didn't come from me, it came from my husband.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, did it?
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I give him full credit for that.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I was writing the book and it's like, oh, what should I call it?
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And literally I was going to.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I was going to call it how to operate without Prozac, but then I thought I'd get sued.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: You don't know on that headache, do you know what I mean?
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: So I thought, no, I can't do that, because I literally thought a lot of people were sleepwalking in their lives and we didn't know how to manage our lives.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: You know so, um, it was more about how, for us working women, what would happen is you run into a problem and well, in my case, you go to a doctor and oh yeah, you're fine, everything is fine.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: You know your mother, you got small children, you got a full-on job.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: It's to be expected, um, and he saw my struggle, my husband saw my struggle, and so he knew that we didn't even have the luxury of um standing still to deal with our problems.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: You know so, you have to have eight arms to do all the things you have to do.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, on the treadmill whilst you're doing your eight arms, so, yeah, so he came up with that yeah, that was better than how to live without Prozac.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: That was this yeah, and it's a very, very memorable name.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the other, to be fair, I think how to live without Prozac is also extremely memorable, but they're both very good names, very good titles.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Did you always want to be an author?
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: then, yes, I've always.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, as you can see, I'm an avid reader.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I love books, and I mean, libraries are now, you know not where they used to be.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: But my dream was, like, if I die, bury me in a bookshop or something, so I can wake up in the middle of the night and go read books.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I love books, um, and so I always knew I would write something.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I just didn't know what I was going to write.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: Um?
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: So that was something I had to do get it out of my system so what's the book about then?
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: if no, someone's listened to this and has not read the book yeah, so the book for me is it's like a manual for working mothers, you know.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: But uh, and I have been told that what's been, what's in the book is applicable to everybody, and that's true in terms of the life, well-being and the lifestyle tips.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: They work for everyone, and I actually did interview a single father and I spent a whole chapter on him, you know.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: So people get things from his point of view as well.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: But working working mothers well, first of all, being a woman in the workplace is challenging, and then, if you overlay that, with a complexity of having tiny humans dependent on you and you have to do the thinking and everything around that and then run a household, that added complexity makes us susceptible to burnout.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: So I thought these people, these women, they need something, and I've always said that when women are coming from the maternity ward, literally before you come out there, somebody should be standing there with a manual going here.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: From this time on, your life is going to get infinitely more complicated and here's what you need.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there is no such thing.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: So we have to sort of muddle through I mean that muddle.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we lose ourselves, we lose our confidence, we think we can't cope with doing everything.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: So you give up the job and then, 20 years later, you've lost your confidence, your skills and you think I can never find my way back into workplace, right, and you're looking at your kids and resenting them for everything you gave up for them when they didn't ask you to do that.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: So, um, I thought I'll save women a lot of that trouble.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And so go read that and find a way of not having to give up your dreams.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Keep, keep your toes still in the water and, you know, have it all yeah, they should put your book in the bounty packs.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean in terms of like the really tips then you can offer, you know, I guess, not to lose yourself and to prevent that burnout when life is crazy.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, basically, it's not worth losing yourself, because the people that you then expect to pay the price of losing yourself, those people are just some poor, unsuspecting victims.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: And they tend to be your close family.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, um, particularly the kids.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: So what you have is, I don't know some high functioning, high performing woman, yeah, gets um pregnant, comes home and decides, okay, this is all too much, I can't do both, so I'm just going to focus on the kids, and you end up over managing the kids.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: They don't have an inch to breathe because you have all these skills.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: They've got to channel them somewhere.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Um, and not just over managing them.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: You know, expecting them to be grateful, and they're like, uh, what am I grateful for?
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't ask you to give birth to me.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all that dynamitation, you know, and that later on comes up, you know, when they're in their 20s and stuff, and they're like, oh, you didn't let me do whatever it was.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: So it is more about, no matter what is happening, what society is asking of you to factor yourself into the equation, because if you don't, that's when the pros act, comes in.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: If you don't, your soul is crying out because you are a person in your own right, yeah, and if you keep ignoring your needs and service other people's needs, which is what society demands of us women, right, and if you buy into that narrative and do that, what you do is you sacrifice yourself in the process and you come out of that not a happy person, um, and so you need to find a way, whatever it is, and is it easy?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: No, is it worth it?
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: You need to find a way of not burning out, looking after yourself, um, keeping your eye on your own goal, because you have a right, you absolutely have a right to that, and if you don't, your body, your soul will not let you get away with it, you know um and what I mean by your body will not let you get away with it.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: You know, um, and what I mean by your body will not let you get away with it if you don't, is that's when the burnout comes and you get all sorts of physical issues.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, because I had that and that's why I wrote the book I found myself standing at harley street clutching a spreadsheet of 14 symptoms.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Not a good place to be, and that was my wake-up call right to live in a different way.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: And so your body will pay the price if you don't do it, um, and if your body doesn't pay the price, your soul pays the price, hence the product.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: So you, you end up having everything you want, but you're not happy.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: There's that life of quiet discontent and quiet frustration.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: That's no way to live.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: You know you have to live a life that, if you're giving service, you enjoy the service you're given.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: If you've given up your job to come and sit at home and look after the kids, it's out of choice and that's what you choose to do because you're an earth, mother and all the rest of it, rather than something you have to do yeah, that desperation, that feeling that you can't do it.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's really.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: You know this, this.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you something now.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I do a workout every morning on YouTube, right, and I this is how I have not progressed.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Even though my children are now six and seven, I have not progressed beyond these postnatal videos because this sounds bad.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: I just find them easy and I think, if I did not, I've done some of the ladies non-postnatal videos and they're too hard for me.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So I like now you know, going to probably stay in this postnatal period forever on the workouts, but she is always sort of saying how you actually need to put yourself first and I think it's not selfish to exercise.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: This is her line.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Being the the happiest, healthiest version of yourself is the best thing you can do for your kids.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is because what we're giving them is a.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: If you don't look after yourself, what you're giving them is a compromised version of you.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you are setting their self-esteem, whether you like it or not.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And so if you're not looking after yourself and they see you having no boundaries, saying yes to everything, feeling like a doormat, you're telling them this is the way we operate.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly if you're bringing up girls, where boundaries is very, very important, because society will tell them otherwise, right, and if they don't see their mother with clear boundaries being having the confidence to say no to things, what are you bringing up?
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Another generation of that quiet discontent?
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Um, and so they need to see the premium version of you.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: You owe that to them.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Um, and in my, I was always tired, always in a bad mood, always premenstrual.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I was just a nightmare to be around, you know, and certain times of the month and I say this in my book I just literally barricade myself into the bedroom and you entered at the risk of having your eyeballs poked out.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Now, that's no way to live, you know, for the children to think that certain times mom locks herself away.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And it was because my hormones were raging, because my lifestyle was out of control.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't know how to manage myself and the doctors weren't telling me what I needed to know.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Apart from, here's a job, go on it.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And I thought there's got to be a different way, there's got to be a better way so what were you doing at the time?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: so you obviously were a mother.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Were you working or yes, I?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: yes, yes, I was working in consulting, so I had a full-on, full-time job, yeah, um, and just traveling and all that you know, and you know how competitive the corporate world is and I was like you know, hey, toe-to-to the corporate world is.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: And I was like you know, hey, toe to toe with the men.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: You know, I was just going to be as good as anybody out there?
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, you know, and my values were very different, as in what was important, because you know it's a big house, big, this big that, all those suited things, and you know children, they have to go to best schools and all that.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: And so in chasing all those things, I lost myself.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: And the only way to get those to have the big job and all that in my mind.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: So I lost myself, burnt myself out, and so you know, unfortunately or fortunately, I had the blessing of being a woman.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So me burning out meaning, you know, hormones just basically do what they want, do you know?
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And then that also coincided with my perimenopause.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: So it was just a nightmare, it was just a perfect storm of everything that could go wrong.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Going wrong, do you know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: And one day I'll write a post about an apology to my boys for the mother I was back then.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I didn't know better, I could have been better.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: They had all the material things, but I wasn't present, they didn't have me at the time.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: And, um, there's no point in regretting it, because now the work I do allows me to write that wrong and I'm a different mother now.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Although their need of me now is different, I suppose that time they needed me more physically and for me to, you know, be present.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: And even it wasn't like I wasn't present.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: I was there, but when I was there, that was a shell.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and your mind was somewhere else.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I was not present, and my youngest, and we just used to laugh about it.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Whenever he called me, it was never mum, it was always mum.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: It was always mum, mum, mum.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: He felt he had to say it three times yeah, to get your attention right, it was never just mum.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it?
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: You had 14 symptoms.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: You went put on a spreadsheet when you went to.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: What was some of those symptoms?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: How did it all manifest in you?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: oh my god, tiredness, constant tiredness, right um, just sometimes I used to just pray for enough energy just to get through the day, right um.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: And headaches, yeah.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Fuzzy brain, yeah, you know.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: So you have that with a lethargy and everything like that.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: Achy joints, um, constant constipation, um, very, and this is where, because it was coinciding with the menopause, I had very heavy periods as well, which was draining me, which was also making me anemic.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So there was all that going on and not remembering difficult, isn't it?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: because I guess, now, because women have children later on, don't you know?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Women tend to have children, maybe in their mid can be mid to late 30s.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: They're just believing that early they're literally leaving those postnatal wards, often going straight into perimenopause yeah, and it's a lot to deal with yeah, yeah, and I mean because I had my first uh, uh, 32, yeah, uh, and then my second did uh, 36, was 37, something like that, anyway.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: So you know, these days, those days it was like older mom, these days not really, not really because women are having the kids later and later, and I mean at 32, my mom had given up on me ever having kids Because, you know us Africans, we have kids earlier.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Because I got married at 28.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: And then you know to give married at 28, and then you know to give birth at 20 and 32.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: She was like are you ever?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: There's a pressure all the time?
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: But um, yeah, and then it was just too many things happening me trying to be the perfect mom, me trying to be the perfect person at work yeah and everything else that was going on on top of uh, and I mean I say that it's not.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't have help.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: I had nannies and everything, but it was still.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: You know I had to manage all that.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still a mental load, isn't it?
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: yes, yes.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And so you know, the weekends, you, you just wiped out, you couldn't do anything, you just you do.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: You know, you just couldn't.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: I was no use to man nor beast and this was obviously pre-covid.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: So yeah, oh yeah, you're in an office and traveling, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, pre-covid, I used to do an hour and a half one way on the m25 and an hour and a half back, so three hours commuting every day.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, five days a week that's tough.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Even without kids, that's tough right and then throwing travel and and whenever.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: I remember one time I think I was in where was I?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And I was in kuala lumpur where my husband ran because, uh, my kid, my son, you know, he'd had a smartphone for the first time and you know what was it?
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Now I think he'd taken a picture, taken a picture, taken a picture I'm going to travel with the school for taking a picture and he was distraught, thinking his life had come to an end, and he's like where is mom, do you know?
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Because my husband was like you have a way of putting these things into perspective for the kids, and this was before, I think, gdpr had just come out, whatever it was, and it's just a fact that it was supposed to have a phone in the classroom and he'd taken it to the classroom and big deal.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And for kids, all these things are magnified.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: They think, oh, my God, I'm going to die.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to travel with a head and you need your mum at that time.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, for me, for me to make him feel safe and him to know that it's all right.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And I was in the country it was whatever different time zones, so they couldn't get hold of me and my husband did his best and was there for him, but he was asking for me.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: You know he wanted me, him, but he was asking for me.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: You know he wanted me and I wasn't there.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And to this day, you know that breaks my heart, but that's inevitable.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: That could have happened anytime, anywhere, but because I was already feeling guilty, right, that just was another layer on top of it so how did you untangle yourself then from the situation, because you've obviously got financial commitments as well.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, you might not have been able, in a position, to give up full time work.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So and this is, it is knowing what you can do, because a lot of the things I could manage myself, do you know, in terms of the wellbeing aspect, and this is where, especially, why I wrote the book, because on the wellbeing-being aspect, I would say 90 is in your control.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: honestly as much as okay.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Even, yeah, even if you're in a demanding job.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's in your control.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: So you know when we were talking about exercise before you're talking about the, the postnatal exercises, I mean before all, this exercise was not even on my radar I kid you not right exercise, I don't do sweat well, I don't even.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: That's why I still do the postnatal yeah, I can't be bothered and you have to get up and get joe.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Oh god, right, because I didn't understand.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: And for somebody who had, you know, such a high octane life, very stressful life, do you know?
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: An exercise cuts through stress like knife through hot knife through butter right, it's such an outlet and I wasn't utilising it do you know?
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I just wasn't, and so it's knowing that.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And how to cycle these stress hormones through your body, how to get it out, yeah, um, all that will be knowing what to eat, so your body is getting premium nutrients to look after itself.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: How to manage your emotions, you know, um, because you can't help stress, it's just part of of life, but when it comes to you, how you process it, for that emotional regulation, do you know?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: And for me, because I talk about using the mental, physical, emotional and spiritual, and you need all of them because they all bring a different aspect and they help you manage your life, you know.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So, once I understood that I mean sleep, oh my god, I could go on about sleep until the cows come home, but again, I didn't know, and I would be one of those people.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I wake up like two in the morning with the telly watching me, do you know?
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Uh, because I would be scrolling and netflix, whatever, just not understanding, um, the maintenance that goes on when I sleep, you know, especially in deep sleep at certain times of the night, and it can only happen then, and that's why you have to get to sleep at those times.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I just didn't understand any of that, do you know, and so I mean I, I, I thought I was eating well, um, but I wasn't, I, I, because I didn't understand about food and nutrition and and and all that I didn't, so it was going back educate myself.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: So how did you educate yourself?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: You know, because you thought you were eating well.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, in a way, I think a lot of us think we're probably eating well, but actually we're not.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, how do you educate yourself?
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: so listen.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: It was a whole journey.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: You know reading a lot, listening to podcasts, you know with the health experts and stuff.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: It was a whole journey.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: That's how I educated myself.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I went on this.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Do you know any research I could lay my hands on, particularly about the menopause and perimenopause?
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Because I knew certain cultures hardly suffered from it.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: So why were we here just?
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: oh, I didn't know that.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Which cultures I'm gonna have to like.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Stop you, like which?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: cultures.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So so, so that, like japanese women, for example, you know, yeah, for them they hardly um get it and again so again.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: They are known, aren't they, for having they live the longest in the world and have the healthiest diet, don't they?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, yeah and so when you go into certain, certain cultures, um, the menopause is almost non-existent, and so it shows you, it's a life, that's a lifestyle component to it, you know, and I thought hang, I'm going to, you know, operate in a different way.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: So, and cortisol, which basically, if you ask me, equals stress because, when you're stressed out, that's what's coming out Starts instructing your hormones to behave in a different way, do you know?
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Which then affects you?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: So, whether you're menopausal or not, if you're producing too much cortisol, strange things are happening with your hormones and for us women who are cyclical, you need to understand what is going on, when and how to regulate yourself.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: When to go easy on yourself.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: You know when to go for, uh, throttle.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I was always for throttle, do you know?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And, like now, I know when to push, when not to push, because I understand this.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: So, um, and when?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: I say to people, like kind to yourself, isn't it really?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: it is it is, but you can be kind and not know how to, yeah do you?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: know, and so it's knowing how to be kind, how to eat the right things that nurture you, when to eat those things, um, when to back away from, maybe, that argument with your husband and when to literally go for him.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you know?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Knowing what state you're in, uh, to be able to manage those things.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: When to go ask for that pay rise because you're feeling full on whatever, and they're all yes, yes.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: And and for us women, because of our cycles, we go through these phases, so you need to understand those phases and know how to manage yourself, your body, physically through those phases and emotionally through those phases.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was, uh, it was a whole learning journey and, and for me, it was either that or go on medication.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Did you end up going on HRT or anything like that I did.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I did for a month actually, oh, just a month.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did for a month and I came off because I just didn't like the way my body was feeling on it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: So, um and it was interesting because on the nhs there's nothing wrong with you my husband is like I've had enough of this nonsense, so I had to go private and before I walked out of the doctor's uh thing for heartless tree I walked out with a prescription.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, um, and I did for a month and at that time it was also at the height of all those things about does it cause breast cancer, doesn't it cause breast, and all they weren't sure and that now it's all been disproven and everything like that.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: So, um, it's all good, but I didn't know that and so I had on my head and I didn't like the way my body was operating on that and I had what I was given.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I was given like three.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: I had all the three, um, the estrogen, the progesterone and the test testosterone.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I can never pronounce that, yeah, yeah yeah, all three in the patches and everything uh going, and I mean, you know, physically I could feel this energy coming into my body.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I felt great but you know um, for my sins.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: At that time I had fibroids as well, and fibroids, you know, estrogen fibroids.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: So can you imagine?
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was all sorts of thing going on.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: So suddenly I get my periods and they'll be like the nightmare period from hell and I thought no, no, no.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: And so I came up and I thought there's got to be another way of managing this.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so did you consult with an expert?
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I know you were obviously listening to podcasts and reading books and things, but did you get like expert help?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Did you like explore alternative therapies with a person or did you just manage it yourself?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: yeah, so I, I did so.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: So the expert hub was me going privately to harley street and then, you know, paying lots of money, and what they gave me I didn't like that.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, my doctors and the nhs they're like you're fine, but you know that was that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I did alternative things.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I tried ayurveda, I tried all sorts and you know there's a funny story about ayurveda and um me on the train on on the thames lake, but anyway I'd leave.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: That's a bit tmi so I will not put that in here.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, I had a panchakarma treatment and all that.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: So it was interesting.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: But I tried all sorts of different things different diets, different what do they call them now?
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Detox days and that.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: And do you know I was constantly my husband was like I was a walking experiment you know, to find what worked, what didn't work, and you know.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: and then, slowly, out of that, you know, I decided OK, this is making a difference, this is making a difference.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I started feeling the energy coming back into my body and feeling good, and it's like when I had the memory problems, for example.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: It was so bad one time I was coming home from work and this is a road I drive down every day and I got to the junction and I couldn't remember whether I turned left or right.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: That was how bad it was, you know, and I thought this is dangerous yeah, do you know?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and I'll be talking to somebody I've known forever and I just would not remember their name.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: That was how bad they got now.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Now it was the lack of sleep causing all that nonsense and I didn't know that yeah, it is sleep, isn't it?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: often, if you've had a bad night's sleep, you feel terrible.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I feel terrible, you feel amazing.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah and actually I just thought, but but it it was like I, I thought am I?
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Am I getting dementia?
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: I honestly I didn't know what was going on, do you know?
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Um, but it's how I got rid of all those things.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: And be clear as day and like now, if I feel fuzzy brain, I I know.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Or just give me other christmas periods when sleep goes out of winter and party after party, you know, I get fuzzy brain, but now I know what to do early night.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, to correct it, do you know?
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: And now, when I'm stressed, I put my boots on, off, I go off, I go my 10 mile, um, the 10k hike, do you know?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: But now I've worked exercise into my life.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: It's non-negotiable, whereas previously it was very negotiable, it wasn't even part of it, you know.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: And so, um, my routine in terms of how I live, and this is what I teach the women I coach, I'm like you need to live in a way that supports you, especially if you have a high octane life and show me a mother who doesn't.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: You know you need to.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: That well-being bit is non-negotiable and you need to look after yourself, to be that better person for your children and everybody else around you.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: I do think it's all you need some time on your own.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: You know how much you love your children.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I remember when it was Covid and sometimes I just wanted to scream.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It was suffocating really hard and yeah, and I you and I end up really resenting them and being in the house and it made such a difference If I could just leave for half an hour, just walk over for half an hour and come back and feel like, like you said, just decompressed, yeah, yeah.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I show my women because these women who think they have to do everything and I was one of those where they have a partner and they're still basically doing everything.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: And you think, what's that about, do you know, I know?
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: If it's a male, oh yeah, well, he's never helped, or whatever it is.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Well, um, there's an education issue here.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a communication issue here.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: There's a boundary issue here, do you know?
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: And so when they're armed with that, they're able to go have a conversation with their partner to say, hey, listen, things have got to be equitable.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: We decided I would say look at it like both of us have set up a company and if we've set up a business together and let's say we're partners, we're co-founders in the business which we are with the children, yeah, you can't, just don't pick all on me?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, you would say me which part are you doing?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And it's the same, right, this is a business both of us.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: And what are you going to do?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: What are you comfortable doing?
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: What am I comfortable doing?
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Let's sit down, let's have that conversation, and I have a spreadsheet I make my women use as well, you know, and even those that think that they have good husbands and and partners and support them and everything you.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: With that spreadsheet, it looks different yeah, it looks different and I think there's something to be said for that mental load absolutely absolutely, because you know when a child has been taken to football by the, by the dad, everybody's oh, look at him, look at him, he's taking it from experience that my husband is quite good at the taking, but he still doesn't.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: It's me that would have to say.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: But you need to get them there.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: By such and such a time they need to wear this.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: You know, if it's a gift for a party, right?
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: yeah, right, if they're taking them to games, you've organized the sports gear, the sports bar, everything.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: They're just lifting, yeah, and shifting, that's all they're doing.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right before that lifting shift, we've done all the logistics behind it, you know.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: But it's just stepping back and allowing them and they might not do it the way you want it, but so long as it's done.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Um, one of my friends she's saying to me she's traveled and she was coming back from the airport and her husband came and picked her up and the husband came with her kids and the kids were in their pajamas and she was horrified.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: She was horrified that they'd been in their pajamas and driven all the way to Hito to pick her up because they would have been out and all suited and whatever.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: But you have to allow the partner to do it their way.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: What works for them and the kids the fact that they're able to go to hito in their pajamas.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: They thought, whoa such fun.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you, you know so it's different dynamics with the different parents and you have to do, you know, understand the center for the.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: So what so?
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: What you know this is just what is important.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Is it important that they bond and have time with their dad in their pajamas?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: yes, or you do everything.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like how you mentioned as well, you had a nanny and I think that's really important to normalize this village, because a lot of us don't live in those villages anymore and therefore we probably need to buy our village and, yes, and we I think we've got to normalize that that you can't do it on your own.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: You can't do it on your own and you have to buy the village and people.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: There's this I don't know whether it's snobbery, or people like to look either up or down their nose.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Uh, and those of us not doing it all, and those of us that had the temerity to have a nanny, because it looks like you are farming out your children to somebody else, right, and I'm like, hold that judgment for one second.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Just hold that judgment for one second, because if it was a man doing it, yeah, that he would you know.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: If it was a man getting in that nanny, let's say it was a single dad, the wife had died and the man went and got a nanny, nobody would be judging.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: No, no, that's one way of looking at it.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Um, and you have people then that have to pretend they didn't have their nanny and that they did everything themselves.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Luckily for me, growing up in Africa, when they say it takes a village, I lived it firsthand.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: There was a time I actually thought my aunt was my mom because she was nicer to me.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: They like my children's aunts probably nicer to them because your mom has to discipline you and everything but anyway, but she was always around and it was, you know, cousins galore, everybody, and it does take a village.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: It's just all hands to the pump and we need to get away from the fact, from the thing that, oh, if you haven't baked the cake yourself for the school bake sale or whatever it is, you're a bad mother.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: I had an au pair once.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: He was studying to be a graphic designer and when the kids had art projects and stuff, she would do the most amazing drawing.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I can only draw stick men.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm not a good drawer.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I would have been doing them a disservice.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: So, uh, please buy in the help, but the time that you have with the children, you have to be present.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: And sometimes, if you don't buy in the help, what's happening is you're spending your time cleaning bathrooms and whatever it is, and then, whatever time is left with the children, you're just shouting at them because you're tired and, can I say, pissed off.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: If not, please do you know.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And that is not what they want.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: That is not that you don't, would rather the bathroom was dirty and you were there playing with them at that age.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: That is what they want.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know your presence is everything to them, for you, to make them feel like they have you, that you know you are the center of the world.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Um, I read some statistics somewhere that by the time your kids are 18, they would have spent 95 of the time they're going to spend with you with you already.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine, oh my gosh, no, isn't that shocking?
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Isn't that shocking?
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't that shocking by the time they're 18.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: So you have a very finite window and then, when they're gone, they're gone, do you know, and then it'll be an hour here, an hour.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, my son is at uni and you know, when he comes home, I'm like mate, do I even get hugged?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, and very sort of a little interface because now mom is there, okay, but that's it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: It's mom, she's there.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not the most interesting person.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: They want time with their friends and have fun and go, and so it should be, you know, and so it should be.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: But the time that I was the center of the world, there was such a time and that's been and gone.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, and if you didn't take advantage of that time, then when it goes now, you're getting resentful.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: yeah, I think as well.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: A lot of people think they can't afford help, you know, whatever kind of yes, that is yes, actually, I personally always think it's, for a lot of people it's economical, because for many people they they actually, if they worked out their hourly rate, probably, you know, if they were wanting to work more, they could, you know, and then be able to afford that help.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Also, you, like you said, it's that energy, isn't it?
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: If you've got more energy, then you're probably going to do better in your job and career, because you're not, you know, you're going to be able to focus on it more when you are, yeah, at work much more likely to progress.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: And if you can't afford the help, because a lot of people have to give up their job and come home and look after their kids themselves because it's cheaper, yeah, which is fair enough, but if you maybe you can't afford the help of a full-time nanny or whatever it is, maybe you can afford two hours for a cleaner a week yeah do you know to take the pressure off you so you can breathe, and maybe, for those two hours, go for a walk, paint your nails, do something, whatever.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Um, and so, thinking about it that way, as in okay, I can't afford this big thing, but what small thing yeah, it's gonna make a difference perhaps, yeah, do you know?
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Or book the kids on saturday into some club that gives you two hours to do whatever it is you want to do so, you can breathe yeah, so what's your life look like now then?
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: so you?
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Were obviously a full-time consultant.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: You were traveling a a lot and now you're an author.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: My life is very different now, as in my time is my own.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I do what the hell I want, right?
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: And I mean I work from home, which is great, and then if I have to go to client site and speak and all that, then I go.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: So my life is more ad hoc now rather than when it used to be structured.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Nobody needs me.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: People want me, but nobody needs me physically.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Obviously, the kids will always psychologically, emotionally, need me.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: Last year was the year of heartbreak.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Everybody's girlfriend was breaking up with them, so I had to you were back in the center of the universe then, so it's like the relationship has moved from them physically needing me to emotionally needing me.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: So, mom, whatever, and I'm like, oh my god, she has got no idea and you dodged a bullet and that.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: So that is the work I do now, you know, for the kids.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: But I'm not nobody's looking at me for dinner or anything like that.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I keep telling them because I've got boys, everybody's got hands, do you know?
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: You've got hands, you can open the fridge, whatever, um, but yeah, so I don't have to rush for school runs or do anything like.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: So there's that freedom.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: There's that freedom, uh, that I get to enjoy.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Uh, I visit my mom twice a year now in ghana and when I go I stay for a month and I just you know she's 88 and I get to chill with her and just do you know, because there was a time where I was so busy with child rearing that she didn't even factor into the equation, but now I can just, I mean, 88, how many more years have I got with her?
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Every day is a blessing, you know, and now I can go and just sit and laugh and eat and do that with her, which is good.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: And now she needs me, if you like, more physically now because she's 88.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: So it's changed, you know, in terms of the person that needs me physically, but she's got full-time help and stuff and she's quite, you know, capable as well and got all her mental faculties, thank god, um, but yeah, so I get to fit my work around my life now, which I wasn't able to do before, and so I will wake up in the morning, walk the dog, go for an hour, walk the dog and everything before I come and start work.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: I can do that now, do you know?
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: yeah, well, lovely and what was your TED talk on?
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: yeah, so it was about, um, it was called showing up cubed, and basically it's about how you have to show up for yourself first, do you know, yeah, before you can show up for anyone.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: And so, again, it was about the well-being things I was talking about, um, you know, looking after yourself physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually, because if you build those things into your life, in terms of your lifestyle, then you can.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I'll meditate first thing, and then I do my walk, which is the exercise done.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: So I've done my spiritual and and and you know part of the physical.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: You know, um, I eat, well, I you know whole foods and cook, and all that because I'm a beer for food, I love food, I love to know the ingredients, I like to know what I'm putting in my body, because, as far as I'm, you look fantastic you know thanking you, thank you for something.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: You look amazing, like your skin it's glowing, oh thank you.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Thank you for somebody who's 105 right you look fantastic.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: You know, when you were talking earlier, I was like yeah, whatever you're eating, it's doing you good thank you.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you, but I it, as my body is a temple and that is a spiritual thing, but it serves me physically.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: So I will not put rubbish in my body, because a lot of us, rather than you know, I know we would rather use our body as a dustbin.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: You know, and it's easy to do that when you're tired yes, when you're tired and I've had this and your head is hurting and you're feeling fuzzy, it feels really tempting to get like something sugary to perk you up, obviously, because when you're tired and stuff, you want something quick, which is where the carbs come in, because that is what will give you that quick.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: It's just like cheap energy for the body, because that is what will give you that quick.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: It's just like cheap energy for the body, do you know?
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Whereas the other sort of energy, um, that takes a lot bit more of work, so you would have had to burn through the cheap energy first before, um, you go to the more expensive energy.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: So hence you, you sugary, you do you know, and and and why is it that you crave those things?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: When you're in a bad mood, when you're tired?
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: Because you want quick, quick energy.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: So, and if you look after yourself and eat the right thing, um, and your body, you know, whatever you're eating in terms of the nutrients is a sort of on the slow release thing into the bloodstream and you're not getting that sugar spike thing, and so your insulin is not doing crazy stuff.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: That is making you susceptible to all sorts of metabolic diseases, so it all feeds into you know one another.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: And so, once you understand that, the science behind it, do you know you would reach for, I don't know, a boiled potato with the skin on.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: If you're going for the uh, the carb, because it comes in with the fiber rather than just the chip that's going.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just got the carb left, if you see what I mean so um, yeah, yeah and I and I love food and I always look at food, I and my thing about food has got to look good, it's got to taste good and it's got to do good when it's inside of you.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: These three things it's hitting those three things, you know.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: You can't go wrong absolutely so.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: How do you work with women?
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Who is it women you support?
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Do you support men as well?
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: and no, no don't do men, yeah, just women so normally.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: So, um, I coach them and I put them through my program, and so my program we again is holistic, so we do the work career bits as well.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: But normally the thing that makes me laugh is people will be like oh yeah, I'll come to you for career thing and you're making me eat kale.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: And the reason why I'm making you eat kale is for you to be able to crush it at work.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: You need to feel strong in yourself, physically and emotionally, and that starts with the kale.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: So it's taking you through that and bringing you right at it, because for me there's no point in putting strategy over somebody who's tired.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: It's not going, it is not even going in, um, so it is more about let's fix you, let's um and incidentally, because you know I just work with mothers actually, um, and when they come and their children are not sleeping through the night, it means their sleep is disrupted as well so we deal with that right.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: So we deal with that and and I mean I will make them so I work with a sleep consultant and we will sort out the sleep first, and then I will work on mom, first in terms of her physical, emotional, and then we will put the success bit as in the career, the business, whatever it is on top of that.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: So that's how I work with nice because a lot of it is well isn't.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: When you leave the hospital, it's all about the baby, it's all.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: The midwife comes how's the baby?
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Is the baby sleeping?
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: How's the baby eating?
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: How's the baby?
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Very rare, it feels.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: You get asked how are you?
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: How are you sleeping?
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: How are you right?
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: How are you eating?
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: and so I had a very uh.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: So my second one I was very ill after I had him and was in hospital and surgery and all the rest of it, anyway.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: So I remember one of the checkups I went to double appointment with my mom in tow because there was something wrong with her and the baby.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: There was something wrong with the baby.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: So I'm standing in front of the doctor and the doctor's like how are you?
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking at the doctor's like what, somebody's asking about me because normally it would be the baby or my mom, do you know.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: And I was just shocked that he was a big kid and I looked at him in that way and he said, well, because you've just had major surgery and what?
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: And I had, yeah, straight into caring mode, the baby, my mom, do you know?
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: so that's what we do.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: I love this conversation.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: It's reminding me of a podcast.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Do you know amy porterfield?
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Whoever listened to her podcast, it reminded me of an episode I listened to quite recently where she had a business expert come on and then her final question to him was you know someone's listening to this?
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: And amy porterfield, for people that don't know she's like a business expert, isn't she?
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: And she runs a host of podcasts for people that want to run their own businesses.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: So if you're wanting to run your own business, check out her podcast.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: But she asked this business expert someone's in a business and it's stuck, it's maybe not making the revenue they're wanting, etc.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: What should they do?
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And he said exactly what you said that they need to take it right back to them to focus on their health, what they're eating, getting enough sleep, making sure they've got enough exercise, because once they've got that you piece sorted, the business tends to take off, because it's you know.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: You've got to make sure that you are set up for success first yeah, because you think better.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: You know I mean.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Success can come and slap you in the face and you wouldn't notice it if you're in burnout because everything is overwhelming I think, this is yeah, this has been such a valuable conversation gifty.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I've loved it.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Where can people find you?
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Connect with you, learn more about you and your business?
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: well, so they can find me at giftyandridecom.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's my website.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Everything is on there.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: They can follow me on linkedin.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I'm on the socials, uh.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: I'm on twitter for my sins.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: I had to, but I don't.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I don't do anything there, but I'm there too, uh, but the places are most active on linkedin and I've got a facebook group, um what's your facebook?
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Group called oh, oh, my God.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Now I have to try and remember what it's called.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Actually Can't remember, to be honest.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: That's all right, so go on your website and connect with you on LinkedIn.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, oh my God, something about working women.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Oh God, I have to check that that's all right, I know you're on Instagram as well.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: I can see your Instagram handle.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I'm on Instagram.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: I think it's wellness for professional working mothers.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I think that's what my Facebook is Brilliant.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure the people, if they wanted to join, will be able to find it.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope they do, and for women out there.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: So particularly for us in the workplace right particularly why are?
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: We going to stay there?
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: Now, as you know, there's this big push on dei, yeah, going backwards, and and so, um, dare we pipe up and even bring up any gender issues and the difficulties we face and the, you know, intrinsic workplace biases that we face?
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Um, and I'm like you can only do that if you feel strong in yourself right if you don't feel strong in yourself, you will put up with whatever bias.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: You don't even know what self-esteem looks like, you can't spell it and you will put up with anything.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: You don't do boundaries you know.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: So you, you need to look after yourself.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: Make sure you're not in burner, and then you can go and crush it.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, brilliant.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I mean definitely, definitely, with this very scary you know rhetoric at the moment of you know, pushing back on, pulling back on DE&I initiatives in corporates.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: We definitely need more strong women with self-esteem that can call it out.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: It's unbelievable that we're in 2025 and the people rolling back.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I think they were never in it really for the right reasons uh, they were in it because of the optics.
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: It was fashionable, it was a done thing, blah, blah, blah.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: But um, there is a business case for it.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: The figures all support it.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Uh, so if they're rolling back, shame on them absolutely, we will end it there because that is, I think, a brilliant place to end.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, gifty, for joining me.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.