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From Teenage Entrepreneur to Fintech Visionary: How Ran Grushkowski Built & Scaled Global Payments · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:06
  Ron Grushkowski, welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 0:10
  Thank you for having me, Dave.
• 0:12
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 0:13
  We're so excited you took the time to be here.
• 0:17
  So, Ron, you grew up in Israel and by the time most kids were worried about homework, you had already built and sold your first company.
• 0:27
  You started a digital music distribution platform at 14 and you were able to exit at 16 before Napster even existed.
• 0:35
  And then you spent the next two decades building fintech companies that, that quietly power billions of dollars in global payments.
• 0:43
  And most people have never heard of you.
• 0:46
  And that's actually kind of the point.
• 0:48
  So let's go all the way back.
• 0:50
  Who is Ron Grushkowski and what was it like growing up in Israel with an entrepreneur, entrepreneurial mind?
• 0:56
  And what made you realize at 14 that you could actually build something real?
• 1:03
  So first of all, thank you for having me on the show.
• 1:05
  And as I mentioned, throughout my career I was kind of in the background trying to keep low profile and just do what I love, which is build companies.
• 1:14
  But I guess it's this time to share some of the story and hopefully inspire a new generation of entrepreneurs to follow suit.
• 1:21
  So as you mentioned, I did grow up in Israel.
• 1:24
  At the age of 14, I was an aspiring DJ and I was looking for ways to access music, watch the latest thing.
• 1:32
  And at the time there was a store in Tel Aviv where you have to go and buy those mini vinyls and it would take a long time to be able to get the latest and greatest in the store
• 1:43
  in Tel Aviv.
• 1:44
  So you would read online about his new music, but it would take a long time until I could get my hands on it.
• 1:49
  And then this new format came about called MP3s.
• 1:52
  I'm like, ah, there must be a better way to distribute music online with this new format.
• 1:56
  And I was looking for it and I couldn't find it, so I built it.
• 2:00
  Now at the time I didn't know much of engineering, so I was kind of scrappy and looking for people who can code and build at the time, servers and set them up.
• 2:11
  And it was hard work but paid off essentially within two years.
• 2:17
  It was considered one of the most trafficked websites in the world, definitely in electronic music.
• 2:23
  And a private equity firm approached me and I got bored, you know, two years in at 16 years old and I was able to sell the company.
• 2:32
  So that's kind of how the career started.
• 2:34
  I wasn't looking to be an entrepreneur.
• 2:35
  I wasn't even looking to build a business.
• 2:37
  I just had the need to access the music faster and timing opportunity and Maybe will got me in that space.
• 2:48
  And then at the age of 18 or so I moved to the US with my family, moved to California.
• 2:54
  Then I went to attend school.
• 2:56
  I studied UC Berkeley on a full scholarship, computer science.
• 3:00
  And while while in school I got pulled to co found.
• 3:05
  At the time it was this new idea to allow people to send remittances over the Internet.
• 3:11
  This is 2008, so super early to essentially build new ways to KYC or know your customer or identify people online, accept fraud and payment online and obviously satisfying regulatory requirements on how do you do all of that over
• 3:31
  the Internet?
• 3:32
  Again, super early days there were no great solutions to take a photo of ID and verify it like exists today.
• 3:39
  Definitely before AI.
• 3:41
  So learn a lot.
• 3:43
  Got into this company and stayed in fintech ever since.
• 3:47
  And then five years ago, specifically remittances, of course, border remittances.
• 3:51
  Then about five years ago I was fortunate to sell my latest company in that space called usend.
• 3:57
  We sold it to Banco Inter out of Brazil, very large digital bank.
• 4:02
  I think Today they announced 44 million clients where I served as CEO and CTO.
• 4:08
  And it's about the same time that my current company was founded.
• 4:12
  It's a company called MassPay that I joined as the operating co founder, the CEO this past January.
• 4:21
  And that's a very short version of my career, but I've done a lot in between.
• 4:26
  Okay, yeah, no, appreciate that overview.
• 4:28
  I've got so many questions.
• 4:29
  Let's go back to the beginning.
• 4:31
  This, this first company, true MP3 first of all.
• 4:34
  So you exited at 16.
• 4:36
  I, I mean you're not in the U.S.
• 4:38
  you're not even legally allowed to sign a contract at 16 years of.
• 4:42
  I mean, what's it like selling a company at 16 years old?
• 4:48
  So you know, it's, it's.
• 4:50
  I think being that young and being naive was a blessing because I didn't have to work with too many lawyers and getting investment banker involved and the stuff that I've done when I was much older that oftentimes maybe
• 5:05
  yield better results but complicate the whole process.
• 5:09
  It was a private equity, it was somewhat affiliated or more familiar with what we do.
• 5:14
  They were doing some business with us and it just felt like the right thing to do.
• 5:19
  And they promised to continue running the company, which for me was important.
• 5:23
  And I just wanted to get back to the next thing I was looking for, new initiatives, new things I want to work on again.
• 5:30
  16 year old.
• 5:32
  So it was a relatively simple process compared to what we do today.
• 5:39
  The company was not huge, but it was quite significant, at least at the time, for an online company.
• 5:46
  Okay, and to, to go back to that too, you said, you know, you're, you're an aspiring DJ at 14, you're hearing about digital music, you, you, you want to get your hands on the latest stuff, but you, it
• 5:58
  takes too long with that distribution model, with the vinyl and all that.
• 6:01
  And you said you, you've read about MP3s, but you couldn't find like a viable solution, so you built it.
• 6:08
  I mean, how is a 14 year old, right, with this idea in his head?
• 6:12
  How do you go about tangibly, tangibly building like this, this cutting edge technology that's good, that ultimately transformed the way we consume music.
• 6:22
  Like how you go about putting that together at such a young age.
• 6:27
  So again, out of need.
• 6:28
  But it actually quite a challenge because at the time my English wasn't great, so I was literally using a dictionary to draft emails to send to various record labels out of Europe that I used like AltaVista or whatever
• 6:42
  was the search engine at the time to identify.
• 6:45
  And it took a long time to be able to get the first record labels to come and say, yes, I'll allow you to distribute the music to professional DJs through your platform.
• 6:57
  Well, simultaneously there was, unfortunately, I don't remember his name, but he was one of the core contributors for the Linux project.
• 7:04
  He was an Israeli guy, an engineer, and I was able to convince him to help me build the original code for the platform, which was at the time with CGI or Perl as the programming language.
• 7:19
  So it took a while, but I was motivated because I knew that this is a better mousetrap, not for everybody else.
• 7:25
  I wasn't thinking in the scope of a company.
• 7:27
  I was just thinking for my own needs, said if I would need it, I'm sure others would as well.
• 7:32
  So again, it was in retrospect, now when I do see 14 year olds and my nephews and my nieces are beyond that age, I'm like, oh my God, you know, it feels so young.
• 7:43
  But at the time it just felt very natural because my parents were very supportive and they gave me the resources and the money I had, my bar mitzvah money to utilize some of that to buy the physical servers.
• 7:55
  Again, it's not, it's before the cloud days.
• 7:58
  So we had to buy, to buy servers and negotiate with hosting companies and physically drive and set them up.
• 8:03
  And we set it in Israel and we did in Sweden and we did in other countries.
• 8:07
  So we have global distribution of Those actual physical machines.
• 8:12
  So it was a lot to do but I was motivated, it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot and that was my forte into programming because I did not program the original code.
• 8:21
  I had other engineers starting with this Linux developer and growing from there and people were so intrigued by whatever it is we were doing.
• 8:29
  We had a lot of volunteers.
• 8:32
  At the end of it we were running essentially like a monthly billboard where we would rank top songs, top tracks and we had a lot of aspiring DJs submitting their tracks.
• 8:44
  So we will rate them and publish them and some of them became very famous afterwards.
• 8:50
  So it was a lot of fun.
• 8:53
  Spent a lot of time with people that I enjoyed and thankfully it was great listening to the greatest music at the time.
• 8:59
  Back then we called it progressive trance, now it's called dance music.
• 9:03
  Just the music genres have shifted but it was a really, really cool.
• 9:09
  Definitely cool for a 14 year old, but cool in any way respect.
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• 9:55
  Okay.
• 9:56
  Wow.
• 9:56
  Yeah, you certainly were a natural entrepreneur.
• 9:59
  You know again taking your bar mitzvah money and, and buying servers and putting all these pieces together and getting the right people to help you and ultimately exiting like you said that that's incredible.
• 10:10
  All right, so you move to the us you get, you go to, you have a scholarship to UC Berkeley and then you get I guess like asked to help co found this startup.
• 10:22
  This next startup.
• 10:24
  Yes, exactly.
• 10:25
  So I became friends when I moved to LA with another entrepreneur who received an opportunity to join as a marketing co founder to this company.
• 10:37
  Super early company didn't have much going on for it and they were looking for a tech leader cto.
• 10:44
  So he convinced me to join along with them and we were three co founders that essentially created this product that was a MasterCard on Maestro.
• 10:53
  It's a MasterCard branded card that we would produce in the US and then we would ship it to the beneficiary.
• 11:00
  So let's say Dave, you're trying to send money to your cousin Guatemala.
• 11:04
  We would produce the card in the U.S.
• 11:06
  ship it to Guatemala using FedEx and using different processes, we'll be able to authenticate and verify both you as a sender and your cousin as the beneficiary, so we can meet and exceed the compliance requirements that existed at
• 11:21
  the time.
• 11:21
  The challenge was very significant, both technologically but also from a compliance perspective.
• 11:27
  We had to work with regulators and explain why what we do is essentially exceeding and meeting the regulatory requirements for identifying somebody online for the purpose of remittances.
• 11:39
  So again, learn a lot, spend time with some world renowned experts.
• 11:44
  One of them unfortunately has passed away is a gentleman named Kevin Mitnick who taught me a lot about social engineering and hacking.
• 11:51
  So learn a lot was a great experience.
• 11:54
  And ultimately that was my entry into FinTech.
• 11:58
  Okay, all right.
• 11:59
  And then did that company get sold also?
• 12:02
  No.
• 12:02
  So that company pivoted like two times.
• 12:06
  And unfortunately.
• 12:08
  So as I mentioned, we have three co founders.
• 12:09
  The one who got me in unfortunately was bought out during one of those pivots.
• 12:17
  And in the last pivot I was named the CEO.
• 12:21
  So I was CTO the whole process.
• 12:23
  And I was named CEO by a request for of the investors.
• 12:28
  And unfortunately the co founder, the third co founder was not a huge fan of the move and kind of made it very challenging for us to, to make it a success.
• 12:39
  And it was a total failure ultimately.
• 12:42
  Okay, all right, and then you stayed in Fintech.
• 12:46
  So what's the next, I guess, major, major exit beyond that was Usend, is that right?
• 12:54
  Correct.
• 12:55
  Okay, tell us how that came about.
• 12:58
  So Usend was a remittance company.
• 13:01
  Traditional.
• 13:02
  Imagine moneygram, Western Union, same kind of model with agent locations offering people the ability to send money from the US to Brazil.
• 13:11
  And the CEO, Fernando and I met throughout my career in my previous company, ultimately failed.
• 13:17
  And we wanted to do something together digitally.
• 13:21
  We felt that building digital online remittances could serve us well, starting with Brazil, because the company had roots in that, in that corridor, but growing beyond that.
• 13:33
  And we joined forces and we developed online remittances under the brand Usend.
• 13:40
  But we decided to try to offer something that is very unique, which is a US dollar bank account to a foreign national.
• 13:47
  The premise was you have somebody who's in this case Brazil, but other countries as well that are selling stuff on Amazon or on Etsy, and essentially they're conducting business online and it's very challenging for them to get money
• 14:00
  back into their home country because it's exchange rate.
• 14:03
  But then they still need to promote the business in the US So they have to Maybe spend money on Facebook ads or Google Ads.
• 14:09
  So they have a lot of back and forth conversion.
• 14:12
  So what if we could offer them a US dollar account where they're going to earn the money in US dollars, spend in US Dollars saving those exchange rates, but only remit back whatever money they want ultimately.
• 14:23
  So that was the promise.
• 14:25
  And it was very challenging to find a bank in the US that is willing to play with us.
• 14:29
  But ultimately we did and we developed a product that we called the Global Account, which is, as it sounds, an account, a US dollar account that is offered for foreign nationals.
• 14:39
  Start again with Brazilians.
• 14:41
  And the combination of a Global account, a US dollar bank account with a linked debit card.
• 14:47
  So you can literally spend it off for ads or whatever it is.
• 14:52
  Whatever business you conduct in the US combined with your ability to move the money back home, in this case Brazil, in other countries proved like a very good business model.
• 15:02
  And virtually after we unlocked it, we received three offers to acquire the company.
• 15:07
  So we started the process and ultimately Inter is the company who end up buying the company.
• 15:13
  Okay.
• 15:13
  All right.
• 15:14
  And so that was the first of its kind product at that time, right?
• 15:17
  Like that?
• 15:18
  No, no other banks were doing in.
• 15:19
  That as far as we know.
• 15:21
  That was the first definitely digital court order bank account with a debit card that was offered in the U.S.
• 15:28
  yes.
• 15:29
  Okay.
• 15:29
  And so when you, when you look back too, because ultimately had a very successful exit.
• 15:34
  But looking back, what was like in terms of scaling that that company.
• 15:39
  Right.
• 15:40
  And like you said, it was very challenging to, to convince people, people to believe and to, you know, that, that get people to basically banks to participate.
• 15:50
  What's the biggest lesson you took away.
• 15:52
  From that whole process so you learn throughout your career?
• 15:58
  Honestly, I learned more for my failures than I learned from my successes.
• 16:01
  Because when you succeed, you don't know what worked.
• 16:04
  You know, they ultimately worked.
• 16:05
  But there's a lot of stuff that didn't work that you didn't know.
• 16:08
  But when it doesn't work, you, it really clearly tells you what doesn't work.
• 16:12
  So by the time we went to pitch the Global Account model to some of the banks, I knew that a, you need to have the right team, you need to have the right partners, you need to have the
• 16:22
  right vision, what it is you're selling.
• 16:23
  Because ultimately you're looking to convince everybody about what it is you're trying to ultimately develop.
• 16:29
  And then it boils down to execution.
• 16:31
  So you really need to have the right strong team that can execute in whatever is the vision.
• 16:36
  So we were Looking essentially we felt the puck is going in the market.
• 16:41
  We identified a path to get to where the puck is going, essentially meet the market before the market gets there.
• 16:47
  And with the right team, we were able to build the proper technology, the proper compliance manuals.
• 16:53
  And with that we went to various banks, presented to them and ultimately got one bank to agree.
• 17:00
  And I think it, it was very fruitful both for us and for the bank because after they launched our program, they got many other interested parties and companies that wanted to do the same.
• 17:10
  So I think it served them well.
• 17:12
  So it's really, it's understanding where the market is going, identifying where the puck is going and building towards it, combined with again, selling the vision to everybody that needs to be around it, which is initially your team, maybe
• 17:25
  your investors and ultimately your partners that you're going to work with.
• 17:29
  And then execution is key.
• 17:30
  If you can execute and you can build confidence with people that you know how to execute, over time you can unlock a lot of opportunities.
• 17:39
  Okay.
• 17:40
  And I love that you mentioned you learn more from your failures too.
• 17:43
  So I mean, looking back from the company that didn't work out, where ultimately there was friction with the other co founder and everything basically, you know, fell apart.
• 17:53
  What do you take from that situation?
• 17:57
  Starting with pick the right people.
• 18:00
  Don't get sucked into situations that you don't control, especially around people.
• 18:06
  So let's say your company gets merged and you now have to spend time with people that you don't necessarily enjoy or like, do something about it, because you cannot change people.
• 18:17
  It's not going to happen.
• 18:19
  So either they shift, you shift, something got to change because you friction is something that slows companies down.
• 18:28
  And ultimately again, it was a net positive for me.
• 18:30
  I learned a lot from the negative experience.
• 18:33
  But I could have saved a lot of time if I would come to understand that you cannot change people.
• 18:39
  I was under the assumption at a time that as long as I will continue building value for the company, at the time as the leader of the company, that particular co founder that was no longer involved with the
• 18:49
  company was just on the board, would essentially say, this is great, you are building value for the company and for me as a shareholder.
• 18:57
  But ultimately people are people and people have egos and people have motivations that are not necessarily rational sometimes.
• 19:04
  And it's important to be cognizant of that because it could be a co founder, it could be an investor, it could be a partner, it could be an employee.
• 19:12
  And it's really important to understand where people's framework is what is the state of mind, what motivates them and remove friction.
• 19:21
  And that's again what we've done at usend.
• 19:23
  That's what we're able to get to.
• 19:26
  That's nine figure exit in a relatively short period of time.
• 19:28
  And that's exactly what we're doing at MassPay.
• 19:30
  And that's what we're able to grow as fast as we have because we are able to bring the people that we want to spend time with, corral the partners that we want to work with and be very picky,
• 19:41
  not just take the first person that's coming through the door, the first investor.
• 19:45
  Again, MassPate, we did not raise any money.
• 19:47
  We are very fortunate to be in that position.
• 19:48
  But even partners, we don't partner with every company who wants to work with us because we cannot have friction.
• 19:56
  Our goal is to reduce friction and execute as fast as we can.
• 19:59
  So definitely learn that people can serve a lot of friction, so much so that they will eventually destroy the company.
• 20:06
  Which was a great lesson for me.
• 20:08
  Wow.
• 20:09
  So I mean it sounds like that failure basically became the lesson that, that led to your next two, you know, big successes.
• 20:19
  Right.
• 20:20
  In terms of the, the lesson you took about people.
• 20:23
  Okay, okay, so let's talk about MassPay.
• 20:27
  So how did this company come about?
• 20:30
  So this company was co founded by three of us, three good friends that ultimately just want to do something together.
• 20:38
  Jeff Katz, veteran in the payments industry was the co founder and CEO of a company called Mercury Payments.
• 20:46
  Sold it in 2016 to Vantiv Worldpay.
• 20:50
  Uzi Liao, an OG in the, in the Internet world there was a company at the time was called Packard Bell had significant lion's share in the PC world.
• 21:01
  He was head of Internet there, a very successful entrepreneur.
• 21:05
  So all three of us independently build wealth but also very successful what we do.
• 21:10
  And we became very good friends.
• 21:12
  And when I exited Yusan we said we want to do something together.
• 21:17
  So we decided we're going to build a company.
• 21:19
  In the beginning I was a co founder but I was not available to be an operator.
• 21:24
  Jeff and Uzi spent most of the time at the company and ultimately Jeff was a CEO and ran the company.
• 21:31
  And the premise was to combine my expertise on payouts, on distribution.
• 21:37
  Now at the time I was direct to consumer so I came from remittances allowing somebody to send money to their family abroad.
• 21:45
  But we felt that as Covid is hitting and again this is like 2020 Covid was happening.
• 21:52
  And we recognized that while consumers, when you send money to Your grandma, you are not going to be able to change the way grandma wants to receive the money.
• 22:02
  So let's say you find a cheaper, easier way for you to send the money, but grandma has to change the way she gets the money.
• 22:08
  That's not going to happen.
• 22:10
  If grandma wants to get the money in a local grocery store, you're going to have to figure out a way to send grandma the money that way.
• 22:17
  The behavior on businesses was different.
• 22:19
  So let's say you are a seller on Etsy and Etsy pays you with a prepaid card.
• 22:24
  Guess what?
• 22:25
  That's how you get paid.
• 22:26
  Prepaid card.
• 22:27
  You're not going to change the way Etsy pays you.
• 22:29
  So we felt that as Covid is happening and people are moving online and looking to earn more money online as secondary income people are locked up in their, in their homes they're going to have now.
• 22:38
  Second, like those side businesses, we felt that businesses could benefit from the same optionality that remittances have, essentially getting people paid however they want to get paid some way of it in remittances.
• 22:53
  So that was the premise.
• 22:54
  Now Jeff has a lot of experience with B2B.
• 22:56
  I had experience with direct to consumer remittances and we felt that we can combine it together and build a B2B or B2C business that can offer businesses the ability to send people money however people want to receive the
• 23:09
  money.
• 23:10
  It was a very grand goal, if you will, because most of those networks that facilitate remittances were not familiar with B2B or B2C.
• 23:22
  They don't know how to do compliance on it.
• 23:24
  They don't understand how to do underwriting, they don't do transaction monitoring on it.
• 23:27
  So we had to go through the network, some of them that we had a lot of relationship with because of my 15 years experience in the industry and convince them to allow us to access them on a B2B
• 23:37
  and B2C type of transaction.
• 23:40
  So that was one part.
• 23:41
  The second part is we had to build banking framework to be able to onboard clients in the US and then build technology and build compliance framework to support all that.
• 23:51
  So it took us about five years to do all of this and we unlocked all of it essentially this past December.
• 23:56
  So we were generating some revenue throughout, actually quite significant revenue because even though the vision was not complete, it was enough to generate enough value for companies out there that needed access to whatever it is we built.
• 24:12
  But this past December we really unlocked big parts of this infrastructure.
• 24:20
  We have about 15 sponsor banks in the US today, more than 80 global correspondents around the world.
• 24:26
  We had Direct processor for visa direct, enabling B2B and B2C for all Visa and MasterCard endpoints around the world.
• 24:33
  So we felt that the infrastructure is strong enough that now we are essentially going to market strongly.
• 24:40
  And if you look at our numbers, they are nothing short of miraculous.
• 24:44
  We are EBITDA positive, generating tens of millions of dollars in ebitda.
• 24:51
  We are pursuing many billions of dollars a year, and our growth is tremendous.
• 24:55
  This past quarter we grew close to 400%.
• 24:58
  So very tremendous growth.
• 25:00
  It is enabled by essentially my whole career learning to execute, picking up the right team, knowing where the puck is going, and corralling everybody around that goal, which is very exciting.
• 25:11
  And that's why I'm back in business, if you will.
• 25:14
  It's not for monetary reasons.
• 25:16
  I could retire.
• 25:17
  It's really because, A, I love building, but B, we believe that we can really affect the way businesses pay and move money around the world.
• 25:26
  And ultimately, however people get paid around the world, which is a great, great thing for, for society and humanity and ultimately for us.
• 25:35
  Okay, and like, looking at that too, where like, like you said, after some of these exits, you know, you don't need to work anymore.
• 25:42
  And then you started this company with a couple of your friends because you really had this idea and you wanted to do something together.
• 25:49
  And you really spent five years building this quietly before you even went to market because there's so much work to do.
• 25:57
  It's a grand vision and it took a lot of, a lot of time and effort to put all this infrastructure together.
• 26:03
  So when you look at last December, when you finally launch and you go to market and like you said, it takes off, and now you're generating tens of millions in ebitda and like 400% growth at this past quarter,
• 26:17
  like, how much fun is that, given the road it was to get here and now seeing these types of results?
• 26:23
  So one thing that you learn throughout the processes, the process, is the fun.
• 26:29
  I mean, the hardship is fun, obviously, the successes are fun.
• 26:33
  Those are easy to be fun for everybody.
• 26:35
  But I truly enjoy the process.
• 26:37
  I enjoy the way I'm not looking for a particular end goal.
• 26:41
  We're not looking to be a public company or sell for a certain amount.
• 26:47
  These are not our goals.
• 26:48
  Our goals is to enjoy every day impact the lives of obviously the people around us, the employees, the staff, our partners, but ultimately everybody.
• 26:56
  We touch and we touch many millions of people a month.
• 26:58
  And our goal is to touch billions of people.
• 27:01
  So we are really enjoying the process.
• 27:03
  We're enjoying the way it's obviously a lot more fun when you are extremely successful and you're making money and everybody's excited.
• 27:09
  But honestly, I enjoy the hardship and the long days that you start when there's nothing.
• 27:16
  I enjoy them just as much.
• 27:18
  So learning to enjoy the process, I think is a thing.
• 27:21
  And not looking towards an end goal is something everybody needs to understand and focus on.
• 27:26
  Love that.
• 27:27
  Okay.
• 27:28
  And so when you look at where you're positioned now with, with MassPay, like what, what's next for you?
• 27:35
  So MassPay is just at the beginning, it's its infancy.
• 27:38
  It's just a lot of growth is educating people about the problem and the solution that MassPay offers and ultimately improving the way companies, our clients are able to distribute, fund essentially.
• 27:54
  When you think about it, before the Google Cloud and Amazon Web services and cloud computing, it was really hard for somebody to.
• 28:03
  It was like a moat to be able to have servers all over the world and being able to have actual infrastructure to just serve, just be online.
• 28:13
  And now with the cloud computing, any college student can go and spin off the same ecosystem that any other company has.
• 28:21
  Our goal is to do the same with funds distribution.
• 28:24
  If you look today at large companies, large enterprises, some of them, they pride themselves on the fact that they built a global way to pay vendors and people.
• 28:35
  It's like a moat.
• 28:35
  It's a competitive advantage.
• 28:37
  And what MASP is doing is enabling again, a college student to have a better ecosystem to compete and perform better, which ultimately benefits them as a business.
• 28:49
  But also the people that they pay, the people that transacting with the business, their businesses that are getting paid by them.
• 28:54
  If it's a B2B transaction, and our goal is to get it to such a level that it's as easy as somebody opening a merchant account on stripe.
• 29:03
  Somebody can go online and in a matter of seconds they're able to distribute funds all over the world in the most efficient way for people to get paid.
• 29:11
  And that is our goal.
• 29:13
  Okay.
• 29:14
  All right.
• 29:15
  And Ron, if people want to learn more about MassPay or the other work that you've done or just get in touch with you for, for any other reason, what's the best way people can reach out to you online?
• 29:27
  Yeah, so me personally, obviously LinkedIn, you can follow me on X.
• 29:32
  The company is MasterPay IO.
• 29:34
  We have social media, obviously can reach out to our website.
• 29:37
  Always looking to learn about new use cases, how it is we can help various companies to distribute funds and if anybody's looking for personal advice, happy to just DM me on X.
• 29:47
  I'm happy to reply.
• 29:49
  Okay.
• 29:50
  All right.
• 29:50
  We will link all that in the show notes for everyone.
• 29:52
  All right.
• 29:53
  Well, Ron, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and sharing all this incredible wisdom from your journey with our listeners.
• 29:59
  We greatly appreciate it.
• 30:01
  Take it.