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What The World Needs More Of - Vatsal Sood - S01E05 · What Does The World Need More Of?

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Well, good morning, everybody, and I'm Danielle Morris, and welcome
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: to What the World Needs More Of. In our podcast today,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I'm pleased to have a conversation with Vatsal Sood, who
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: hails from Newfoundland. And Vatsal has said that, you know,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: what we need is to hold ourselves. We have held
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: ourselves back and made ourselves small for too long. So, Vatsal,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: you've expressed this expression that we've held ourselves back and
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: we've made ourselves small. What is that making you? ourselves
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: small look like in real life? And how does that
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: impact us individually?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: So when I said we're making ourselves too small, I
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: was thinking of my whole life journey. When I was
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: growing up, my upbringing has been a little strict and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I grew up in a conservative society where People were like,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: respect your seniors, respect your older people, and don't ask
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: too many questions. Don't talk too much, I guess. So
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: that's how I grew up. And if I was saying
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: something wrong, there was always a fear of punishment. And
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: then I moved to North America. I'm in Nova Scotia,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: by the way, not New Finland. And yeah, it's okay.
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  Speaker 2: So here people, I was, in my culture, people are
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: very upcoming and forthcoming. We don't worry too much about
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: how we are perceived and what we are saying. So
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: that's how we connect, right? We like very blunt. And
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  Speaker 2: not in Canada, people are very nice. They don't want
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: to be like a burden on others and they want
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: to be very polite and nice. So I find the
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: authenticity gets lost. So when I was growing up, the
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: authenticity was getting lost because of the fear of punishment
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: and the fear of not offending somebody or not offending
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  Speaker 2: the world or in a different sense. Here, the authenticity
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: is getting lost because people don't want to be misunderstood
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: and be perceived as rude or be perceived as too much.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: So they don't want to be a burden. So I find...
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: That's why people can be a little lonely and they
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: might feel depressed because they're not authentically speaking their mind. Now,
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  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you have to be rude and
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: be mean to people. Don't do that. But at least
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: find a common ground where you can be yourself and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: still connect with people. So that's why I said, like,
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  Speaker 2: you're making ourselves too small. You don't have to be
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: a jerk, but you also don't have to be just
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  Speaker 2: a different person, if that makes sense.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: You know, that's intriguing. Mm-hmm. So if I think about it,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: if I'm too reticent, I don't get to share my
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: opinions and my thoughts. I don't want to put words
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: in your mouth. But if I'm overbearing, then I could
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: harm that as well. So let's think about how technology,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: as it relates to our younger generations, do you think
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  Speaker 1: technology is expanding or shrinking this aspect of being too small?
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  Speaker 2: I think technology is expanding that, I would say, because
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: with social media, everybody is just posting the polished versions
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: of themselves. And it might look like they're expanding because
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: they're posting, oh, our life is so glamorous, our life
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: is so grand, but it's usually not that way. It's
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: just a filter, I guess. So I would say it's...
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It's shrinking because people are not, people are very afraid
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  Speaker 2: to just post their raw, unfiltered self. I mean, you
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and me, we might just do it. We don't care enough.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: We're just like, whatever. But people want to be that
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  Speaker 2: high status, right? They want to be like, okay, we
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: want to show that we are, we have our things together.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So that's what they post on social media. And yeah,
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  Speaker 2: that's not really their real selves. So to answer your question,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I think it's shrinking, making it worse.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I have a friend. I have a friend who told
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  Speaker 1: me he was only going to post food pictures that
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: included things like hot dogs and macaroni and, you know,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: the plainest of family meals, right? Because he got tired
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: of seeing photos of these, like, you know, grand meals,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: these grand dinners, these very beautiful plated things that people
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: only get to a moment ago. I think you're right there.
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  Speaker 2: When.
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  Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that you are, you're
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  Speaker 1: a TEDx speaking coach. And have you found that people
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  Speaker 1: have been this reticence when they're developing their TED Talks, right?
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  Speaker 1: Because this is a stage of the world. Have you
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  Speaker 1: found them to be reserved? And if so, how have
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  Speaker 1: you helped them migrate past any reservations they may have
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  Speaker 1: about fully communicating coming to expressing themselves and being the
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  Speaker 1: giants that they likely really are.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So when they start preparing their speeches for TEDx,
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  Speaker 2: they're usually reserved, as you're saying. And they are like,
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  Speaker 2: we don't want to say certain words on the stage.
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  Speaker 2: We don't know if our talk will be canceled because
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  Speaker 2: at the end, they do want to spread that message
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  Speaker 2: that they have across the globe. So they want to
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  Speaker 2: be very careful. And that comes back to the being
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: small point I was talking about. If you are, again,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: being too careful about your words, then you're not really
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  Speaker 2: truly expressing yourself again. And if your talk is like
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  Speaker 2: every other talk that's on the internet, then you're not
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  Speaker 2: having an impact on the world. So it is defeating
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  Speaker 2: the purpose almost if you are speaking on the TEDx
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  Speaker 2: stage and you're not being yourself. And to help them
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  Speaker 2: out with that, I basically just tell them, if you
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  Speaker 2: want to swear, swear on the stage. If you want
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: to share your dark and secrecy, secrets. And if that
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  Speaker 2: will help somebody transform, go ahead and do it because, uh,
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  Speaker 2: that's why people are there for, they're not there to
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: listen to another motivational speech. They can go to any
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  Speaker 2: other conference for that. So, uh, yeah, basically that's what
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  Speaker 2: the frame, the change of mind is the frame that
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  Speaker 2: I tell them to take because, uh, Otherwise, if they're hesitating,
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  Speaker 2: their talk won't do well. Nobody's going to care. So
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  Speaker 2: it kind of defeats their purpose of getting on the stage.
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  Speaker 2: So that's what I try to show them. Just be yourself.
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  Speaker 2: If you are loud, be loud. If you want to
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  Speaker 2: sing on the stage, sing on the stage. Because that's
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  Speaker 2: what everybody wants to see. Your authentic self. They don't
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  Speaker 2: want to see a polished version.
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  Speaker 1: When might have been the first time that you started
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  Speaker 1: to speak this truth out loud?
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  Speaker 2: That you.
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  Speaker 1: that you reconciled or you figured out how to reconcile
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: this difference between that Canadian style politeness and reservation and
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: your home bringing of shared authentic selves. When did that
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: come to fruition in your personal journey? And how did
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: you react once you figured that out?
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  Speaker 2: It has actually, I've been in Canada for 14 years
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  Speaker 2: at this point, and I had started feeling it as
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: soon as I landed because, uh, every other person would
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: tell me, okay, you are too much. You're too loud.
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  Speaker 2: You're too rude. And like, I was just trying to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: point the obvious. So if you hang out with my
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: group of friends from India, they are very, very straightforward.
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  Speaker 2: They'll just see something. Okay, bro, you're just being lazy.
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  Speaker 2: And if I say that to somebody that here, they
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  Speaker 2: will be offended. I'm not lazy. but their actions are
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  Speaker 2: showing otherwise. So when I landed, the first few years
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  Speaker 2: I was doing that and everybody would be like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to talk to you and we can
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  Speaker 2: be friends, blah, blah. Some people would like that as
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: you just laughed. Some people would laugh at the honesty
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  Speaker 2: because nobody talks about those things. They are not very
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: honest sometimes. So some people find it very refreshing and
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  Speaker 2: they're like, okay, thank God. At least we don't have
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: to think with you what you're thinking because you are
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  Speaker 2: going to blurt it out anyways. So I noticed it
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  Speaker 2: as soon as I landed for the first few years.
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  Speaker 2: And for the longest time, I was just trying to
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  Speaker 2: fit in. I'm like, okay, I'll just change how I talk.
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  Speaker 2: And I will hang out with more and more people
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  Speaker 2: who can teach me how to chat in the North
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  Speaker 2: American or Canadian ways. But after a while, you don't
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  Speaker 2: enjoy those interactions because you find those are very hollow
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  Speaker 2: surface level. So after a while, you don't hang out
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  Speaker 2: with the same people. And that's what my journey has been.
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  Speaker 2: I hung out with a lot of people. I wasn't
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  Speaker 2: enjoying myself. So I kept on moving on from one
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: friend circle to another one and another one. And throughout
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  Speaker 2: this whole process, I did manage to have some good friends.
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  Speaker 2: And now that's who I hang out with because they
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  Speaker 2: know that if they need advice about something, they'll come
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  Speaker 2: to me and I'll just tell them what I think.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what they're looking for. Beautiful, beautiful.
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  Speaker 1: You also referenced at some spots that you kind of
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  Speaker 1: connected this reservation and reticence to burnout, right? sometimes I
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  Speaker 1: think people think that burnout is like workload related, but
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  Speaker 1: is it, is it, is it anything to do with
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  Speaker 1: burnout being just always on and having to hold ourselves
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: back that that's, that's making us tired. And, and is
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: there a time when we just don't have any more
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  Speaker 1: energy to filter? And then we kind of become this
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  Speaker 1: unfiltered mess sometimes.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you talk to me after 10 p.m., that's
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  Speaker 2: what I am. I'm mostly an unfiltered mess because I'm
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  Speaker 2: too sleepy. But absolutely, I think we are spending too
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  Speaker 2: much mental resources just trying to figure out what to
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  Speaker 2: say and what not to say. And trying to figure
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  Speaker 2: out what the other person is thinking and what they
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: are going to respond to and how they are going
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  Speaker 2: to react to our words. I mean, it's much easier
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: to just say what you're thinking. But again, you have
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: to say that in a decent way and just don't
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  Speaker 2: be a jerk again. So that can definitely add to burnout,
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  Speaker 2: as you were saying, because we're mentally playing all these scenarios, right?
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  Speaker 2: We're thinking about, okay, this person said this to me.
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  Speaker 2: What did he mean? Did he mean this? Did he
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: mean that? And that's where all of our resources are going.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And we're not really getting any work done because we can't,
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  Speaker 2: especially if you're working with people, I think that's a
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: big hindrance or a big hurdle where you are trying
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: to just navigate the everybody's personalities. Okay, this guy's an introvert.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I want I don't want to overwhelm this person and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: that guy's an extrovert and whatever the different personality types are.
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  Speaker 2: So I think that definitely adds to the burnout. Understood.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: What's, what do you think? Is there a difference between
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: authentic expression and just being louder?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Ah, that's a good question. Authentic expression and just being louder. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: so I think authentic expression doesn't have to be loud.
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  Speaker 2: You can just state your point of view. And I
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  Speaker 2: think being loud can sometimes not be good either because
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  Speaker 2: some people don't do well when there is an extremely
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: loud person, for example, in a meeting and they're just
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: taking over a meeting, like in a corporate environment, for example.
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  Speaker 2: They don't want to stop the person and the loudest
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: voice sometimes becomes the right voice, which is not always
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: the case. So I think if you are just authentically
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: expressing yourself, you can calmly just disagree. You don't have
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: to always be offensive or just start like, maybe a
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: fight even because, Hey, you disagree, you disagreed with me
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  Speaker 2: and I don't like it. So I started getting loud
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: because I know in my culture, I've met a lot
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: of loud people. And even me, if I'm talking on
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  Speaker 2: the phone, I'm super loud. So it's, it comes very
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: naturally to me, but, uh, Again, it has to be
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  Speaker 2: based on something credible. You don't just raise your voice
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  Speaker 2: and that makes you right by default.
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  Speaker 1: I live within a construct that sometimes people just need
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: soaking time and that soaking time is really quiet moments
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: to reflect. And that could be seconds, that could be weeks, right?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, they have to become comfortable. Do you think
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: part of our challenge is that we don't allow ourselves
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: enough time just to be comfortable with whatever our answers are?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: We think of this instantaneous response.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. So I was saying that I grew up
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: in a very big city and the people were very
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: quick to react because everything had to be done quickly.
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  Speaker 2: And I find there's a big difference between reacting and
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: responding because in my current city, people are a little
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: more laid back. So they don't have to get their
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: work done quickly, basically. And I find that approach is
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a little better because, as you said, you soak in
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: whatever the message is and you put your words together
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: and then you respond. So which adds a layer of
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: thinking to it, which I find is very beneficial because
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: you don't just blindly agree with whatever the crowd or
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the herd is saying, because it's a cool thing to
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: do just with go with the crowd because we are humans.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: We like to be in a crowd. So I find
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: that definitely helps if you take a deep breath and
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: before responding, think about what you're going to say, put
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: your words together. and I find it's difficult sometimes when
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: you are stressed overly and if you have deadlines to
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: meet then you're basically just running and doing all these
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: chores all the time and not thinking much it's basically
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: you're running on autopilot at that point and that's where
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: the short reaction time comes in and the short fuse
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and that's where the conversations goes downhill usually it Understood.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: So as we start to wrap up and think about
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: our ending, I want to think about for the people
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: who are listening, right? They're not seeing us. They're listening.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: They may be driving, but they've been sitting there going,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been small for a number of years.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: And when I arrive where I'm going to be safely arriving,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: or maybe in a meeting tomorrow or with my family,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: wherever I'm at, what is the first thing that they
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: could really do to start to express the greater them,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to drive that better future? What are some of the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: small things that they could really do so that they
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: can achieve greatness?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very good question. What they could do is,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: so for me, there's always been a trigger that forced
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: me to be small. And it's always good to question
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: that trigger. Like, okay, if I'm being small in a
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: certain situation, like, for example, in a meeting, why am
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: I being small? Is it because I'm afraid of people's judgment?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Am I afraid of sounding stupid? So the small step
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: they can do is just like literally taking a small
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: step in that direction. So for example, if it's a meeting,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: just opening up a little bit, because you're basically retraining
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: your brain to show it that the situation or this
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: moment is safer than we think, because our hyper vigilant
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: brain always is looking for threats, right? So we are
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Whenever we are shutting ourselves down, we are just predicting
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: that the environment is not safe. So it's all about
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  Speaker 2: just showing ourselves that it is safe to be a
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: little more open. It's safe to be a little more
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: louder if that's what you want to do. And it's
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: okay to express yourself a bit more. So the small
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: step you can do is just... take a small step
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  Speaker 2: towards what you want to do. You don't have to
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: jump right into it. For example, if you want to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: talk in a meeting, don't just stand up and start
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: talking to everybody. Just start by expressing one point of
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: view and see how the room reacts. And if the
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: room reacts positively, then our brain kind of shifts and
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: it realizes that, okay, it's safe to express ourselves and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: it's okay to open up a little bit more. And
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: this can apply to any situation, really, if you are
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: trying to work towards our goals. And if you previously
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: had negative experiences with it, and that's why you decided
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: to make yourself small, trying to go in a different
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: direction and see how the universe or the world responds
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: to that. Because I'm pretty sure it will be a
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: positive experience because that's how it worked for me. Whenever
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I try to be a bit more open, a bit
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: more myself, usually I always get positive feedback and it's rewarded.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: So That's what I would tell people to do. Just
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: take that little step.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: That is beautiful. And at that, I would like to
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: ultimately sign off. I want you to be well. I
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: want you to find joy. I want you to be safe.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: And everybody, this is Vatsal Sood. I'll put his contact
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: information and LinkedIn in the bio at the end. And everybody,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: have a great day. And until next time, this is
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the one question to help the world be better. Thank you.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Bye.