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Resource Report 13 - Neurospicy Sisters Autism Coaching · Resource Report

0:20
Hello and welcome to Resource Report, where we
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share with you important information about local
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nonprofits and resource organizations that support
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the community we share, produced by Pathways
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to Agency. I am your host, Rainmaker. Today we
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will hear from Allyx Steffens. and Cheryl Vandegrift,
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two Neurospicy sisters coming together remotely
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to teach and support as many people as they can
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about autism and similar neurodivergence. Let's
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listen. I am here with... Neurospicy Sisters
1:04
Autism Coaching, and I've got Allyx Steffens and
1:09
Cheryl Vandegrift with me here. Hi. Hi. So would
1:15
y 'all like to introduce yourself and how y 'all
1:19
came to be here doing this? Ooh, that's a story.
1:24
So I'm Allyx Steffens, and I'm actually a graduate
1:29
of Evergreen. I'm a former environmental educator,
1:34
and I have a certified in early childhood development
1:41
specialist. And Cheryl has a degree in psychology,
1:46
and she's also autistic. So she gives the person
1:49
first. inside view of the actually autistic mind.
1:55
And I've worked with CPS as a respite care provider
1:59
for special needs children. And so I give practical
2:03
tips for parents and families that help the family
2:07
heal as a whole. That's awesome. Anything to
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add, Cheryl? You asked how we came to be here.
2:17
The short story is My psychology degree has a
2:21
focus in life coaching, so I was actually health
2:24
coaching at first, not a personal coach, just
2:30
a more of like mindset. But it was really, I
2:35
was on my journey of finding out about my own
2:37
ADHD and autism and also probably my daughter's.
2:42
And it was just really weighing on me that I
2:44
needed to probably. approached my sister about
2:49
actually doing autism coaching and education
2:52
because on my journey i was um you know reading
2:56
all of these frustrations from actually autistic
2:59
people about things they were dealing with and
3:01
all the holistic things they were dealing with
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and um you know all the parents and stuff and
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uh but we just i just really saw that there was
3:11
a need for um education from an actually autistic
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standpoint and so i i called her up and i was
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like this health coaching thing really isn't
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panning out for me like i feel like my heart
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is telling me that we need to start this autism
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coaching and she's like just say the word so
3:30
that is how we ended up here two years ago and
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we've been growing ever since and so we started
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a private group And we she started doing weekly
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lives where she started talking about her autistic
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experience in that internal world, because when
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she finally got her diagnosis and we figured
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out that she's autistic, a lot of things started
3:52
falling into place for her. And some of that's
3:55
like self accommodations and self grace and forgiveness
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and, you know, all of that, because as a late
4:01
diagnosed autistic, you spend all of your life
4:03
feeling like there's something wrong. And so
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I spent six months listening to her weekly talks
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describing her inner world, describing how autism
4:14
feels. And then she booked our first presentation
4:21
with a North Carolina homeschool education association.
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And I said, I still didn't understand what she
4:33
was trying to say. We knew that she was trying
4:37
to say something, but we were trying to translate
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it into a way that neurotypicals would understand.
4:43
And it really felt like trying to translate an
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alien language into something that a lot of people
4:51
wouldn't be able to understand or grasp. And
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so I, we jumped in with both feet. She said,
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I'm just going to book us. And if it doesn't
4:59
make sense, then we just need to start getting
5:01
like parental feedback or neurotypical feedback
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about where it doesn't make sense. And so I started
5:08
with the visuals and I think with the visuals,
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I went down a rabbit hole for four days because
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once I came up with that initial visual for the
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neurotypical, for the, Autistic Maslow's Triangle
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was that is when it started really clicking into
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place for me. And it started making sense about
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what she had been trying to say the whole entire
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time. And so then we expanded that concept into
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a one hour keynote. The Autistic Maslow Triangle,
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we have been spending six months to a year developing
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it, creating slides, learning how to explain
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it, switching the slides. And I was listening
5:57
to your. podcast on Autism Acres. And I wanted
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to shout out Alan Young was one of the first
6:05
people that I gave the presentation to because
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I was like, does this make sense? Does this sound
6:13
like a tin hat situation or groundbreaking? And
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he said groundbreaking. And, you know, and he
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asked questions and he poked holes. And if you've
6:23
ever met Alan. that that's a lot of his personality.
6:27
And I utilized him as a tool so many times over
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the years of like, does this make sense? And
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so we've developed it into a keynote. And then
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we had a friend of mine, she had us present to
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FESS, Family Education and Support Services,
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just to get a clinical touch on that, you know,
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does it pass a clinical psychology? Does it Or
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is this just pop culture, whatever? And they
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endorsed us. We're on their website. And they
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said it was mind -blowing and changes the way
7:07
that people look at autism. And so we felt more
7:10
empowered than ever. And then we went into our
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presentation at our first homeschool conference.
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And we had 70... people and they were parents
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so these are lay parents and this was a real
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aha I feel like it was more of an aha moment
7:29
for Cheryl because she was the one in the room
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and I was joining virtually and we were going
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through this really basic presentation on how
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to homeschool your neurodivergent child and some
7:44
tips and how to you know manage things how to
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talk about things and She stopped me. I was speaking
7:52
and she was like, I'm seeing a lot of confused
7:54
looks, a lot of confused faces out here. Can
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we do just like a quick vocab check? And so she
8:01
said, who here knows what stimming is? And what
8:06
was it? Like one parent raised their hand out
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of a room full of probably like three. Yeah,
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it was not very many. So these are people that
8:14
are supposed to be advocating for their child
8:17
and they don't even have the language. Between
8:20
a meltdown and a tantrum and how to navigate
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a meltdown, what an actual meltdown was. I was
8:26
like, OK, we this is not part of our presentation.
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Like this kind of education has got to be outside
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of this. I don't have time to stop right now
8:34
and go over vocabulary like this is crazy. So
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it became really apparent to us, like, how are
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you supposed to advocate for your child and you
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don't even have that language surrounding what
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the issues are if you don't even know what stimming
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is or a sensory diet? Or how are you supposed
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to, how are these families supposed to be supporting
8:55
their kid when they don't even understand or
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have that language around it? So, I mean, one
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of the things that we do in our membership, I
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will get into later, is there's a vocabulary
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check in the first week. Because it's like a
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lot of these parents don't even understand the
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language of autism or have that level of understanding
9:14
around the difference. The pipeline, we realized
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that the pipeline they were kind of traveling
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down was realizing that something was going on
9:24
with their child, fighting to get a diagnosis,
9:27
getting the diagnosis. And then they are just
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handed a referral for ABA therapy and maybe some
9:34
pamphlets for. um some area resources and pat
9:39
it on the head and said have a good day they
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do not get any education for anything so what
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they do is they go to the internet and they find
9:51
these autism parent groups and they think these
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are my people i will learn something in here
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you know there are people in here that will that
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will educate me and what we found is that they're
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actually just kind of echo chambers of You know,
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a lot of them, a lot of them maybe are educational,
10:08
but there's a lot of them that are, you know,
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very victimizing, very, oh, poor me. Fix my child.
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Autism is like cancer. People kind of start to
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do that and they just think that's normal. Like,
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so that is very emotion based. We take the emotion
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out of it and we are just giving you facts. Like,
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these are the tools. This is what your child's
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brain is doing. This is how you handle it. This
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is how you support them. Let's go. Yeah. And
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it was just this weird expectation that to defer
10:41
to the therapist. Right. And so even if they
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have questions or have, you know, there was this
10:47
when talking to parents afterward, they said
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they did not feel empowered by their therapist
10:53
to be partnering with their child. You're just
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supposed to pair it. what the therapist is doing.
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And if you feel uncomfortable with what the therapy
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is, I've had parents in support groups that are
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just like, the therapist is telling me to do
11:09
this, this and this. And I don't feel comfortable
11:11
doing that because it feels awful to do to my
11:14
child. But they are so fear mongered into. thinking
11:19
that this is what's best or this is you know
11:22
and so we're wanting to help labeled as the parents
11:26
are being uncooperative that is why the child
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is not progressing Oh my goodness. So like we
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really want to be partnering with parents to
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help them understand their kids better. And studies
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have found that autistic individuals that have
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family support are more successful, more happier,
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and their mental wellness is higher. My son has
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been denied certain services because his self
11:56
-esteem was too high because we homeschool. I
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was just, really, I don't understand why. Like,
12:03
that's the yardstick they go by is how depressed
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are they? Like, that's pretty sad. That's not
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the only thing that they should be going by.
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Cheryl, what state are you in? I am in North
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Carolina. North Carolina, right. So Cheryl, you're
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located in North Carolina, and Allyx, you're here
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in Olympia. But y 'all both run this organization.
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How do y 'all do that in two separate places?
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It's not too bad. We do a lot of business meetings
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on StreamYard. We don't stream. We just go in
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the back office and talk to each other. For the
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homeschool conference, they had a lot of AV equipment
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and stuff, so I just signed in on their computer,
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and they had it already hooked up to their projector.
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So that helps in our group. We use StreamYard
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to stream our live streams. But, yeah, it's a
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lot of calling in. Either I'm in person and she's
13:03
calling in, or she's in person and I'm calling
13:04
in like this. We find ways around it. Okay, so
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y 'all are both providing services both here
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and in North Carolina. Yeah, it's virtual. It's
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online. We have a website. So yeah, like the
13:19
pandemic really made working virtually a lot
13:23
easier. And so we've been able to connect. We
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do it just like this. One of us is usually in
13:32
person and then we'll connect the other person
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virtually via phone or Zoom or however it is
13:38
that they want to be connected. And then our
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main program and our main support is all online
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and virtual too. So y 'all are talking a lot
13:48
about autism and y 'all do work with ADHD and
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support that. Yes, it's like autism light. It's
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the same. There's overlaps. There's overlaps.
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I've seen that you have ODD and PDA or Oppositional
14:05
Defiance Disorder and pathological demand avoidance
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on your website. So I assume that you work with
14:10
that. Yeah, I have pathological demand avoidance.
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And literally just the other day, I had to deal
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with something with taxes. And I got dizzy and
14:20
vomiting and nauseous because I didn't want to
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do it. And, you know, my brain, my adult brain
14:28
says I have to do this. But the PDA was triggered.
14:31
So it's physical and trying to help people understand
14:35
like your kid will literally get physically sick.
14:38
If you word things wrong, if you make it sound
14:41
like a demand, it triggers a fight or flight
14:44
like response. And even as an adult, I... have
14:48
to navigate that. And I have tips and tricks
14:51
for that. And I have a whole, we have a whole
14:53
entire training on that, that we just spoke about
14:56
this last Friday. Last week, we did a presentation
14:59
on how to homeschool oppositional defiance disorder
15:03
and pathological demand avoidance. And those
15:05
are two separate things, but we talk about them
15:08
together a lot because the symptoms are so similar
15:11
that, but the way you approach them are going
15:14
to be different. But we also, we talk about that
15:17
too. ODD and PDA, those two do not seem to get
15:27
as much airtime as it were as autism and ADHD.
15:30
Can you all kind of go over those a little bit
15:32
better, more clear? Hmm. Okay. Oppositional defiance
15:38
disorder is usually linked to PTSD. And then
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if you want to talk about PDA and ODD, we're
15:47
going to go back to the Autistic Maslow's Triangle.
15:50
Yeah, it starts with self -actualization at the
15:53
bottom. And then we move up to self -esteem.
15:56
And then we move up to love and belonging. And
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then we move up to safety and security. And at
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the very top is the physiological. So physiological
16:05
comes as an afterthought. And so you see that
16:08
a lot in like hyper -focus that you can get so
16:12
focused on an art project that you forget to
16:15
eat for days or something like that. And so we
16:19
learn. the neurotypical Maslow's triangle as
16:23
part for me when I was a teacher was was kids
16:28
can't learn if they're hungry or if they're not
16:31
safe at home and with Autistic children, they
16:35
can't learn if their physical body is like, with
16:40
their sensory issues are not supported. So it's
16:43
a very sensory based thing that either they need
16:46
more sensory input than the average bear or less
16:50
sensory input than the average bear because they
16:52
are too sensitive or they're not sensitive enough.
16:56
Like for me, if your child is in a wheelchair,
17:00
you are putting in a ramp. You're widening the
17:03
doorways. You're moving the counters in your
17:08
house so that they can get around the house.
17:10
And I just find it interesting that autism is
17:14
one of the only conditions that the autistic
17:17
individual is expected to accommodate the neurotypical
17:22
family. and work around a neurotypical household.
17:26
And then they'll go to therapy to learn how to
17:29
live in a neurotypical household. And so part
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of our programming and in the first month of
17:34
our programming is we do a house tour and we
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have, you get homework and you get assignments.
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So one of them is to draw a map of your house
17:45
and start inputting autistic. accommodations
17:50
into your house and act like you have somebody
17:53
with autism living in the house too. Where's
17:56
their sensory room? Where's their quiet corner?
17:59
What accommodations are we putting into our lives
18:03
so that these people are better supported? And
18:07
so then it doesn't feel so versus, it feels more
18:11
like a teamwork. And that's where we're like,
18:13
we want to pull the family together because autism
18:17
can tend to take over the whole entire house
18:20
meeting parents that have been on wait lists
18:22
for therapies for years and they're scared of
18:26
their child they're scared to tell them no they
18:29
don't have like clients that have food aggression
18:33
and I'm like have you ever thought about putting
18:36
a door up in the kitchen so that you can close
18:40
and lock that door so that they're not coming
18:42
in while you're trying to cook Because that's
18:45
a safety issue, getting attacked while getting
18:48
something out of the oven or doing something
18:50
hot on the stove. And you really need to start
18:54
being able to put things in place where you can
18:59
exist as a neurotypical person, cook dinner,
19:01
you have a household to run, and that the person
19:04
with autism is also supported. I want to say
19:08
that the origin of... not just your triangle
19:14
from Maslow's triangle, but the original triangle
19:18
that Maslow, in fact, got that idea from was
19:22
the Blackfoot First Nations triangle, which wasn't
19:26
originally drawn as a triangle, but it was conceptualized
19:29
in this format. And it only has three pieces.
19:32
And it begins actually at the bottom with self
19:36
-actualization. And then it moves to community
19:39
actualization with cultural perpetuity at the
19:44
top. And I think that this is personally my opinion.
19:50
But that was kind of a corruption based in European
19:55
ethics, white ethics, that Maslow took that and
20:01
made it into the Western headspace, which began
20:05
with physiological needs, safety needs going
20:08
up, belongingness and love and needs, esteem
20:10
needs, need to know and understand, aesthetic
20:13
needs, self -actualization. with on transcendence
20:17
at the top and that was also part of the Blackfoot
20:20
nations that he like kind of changed that to
20:24
fit the that's very interesting i didn't know
20:26
that yeah um yeah it's it's not hard to google
20:30
there's a bunch of different websites on it but
20:32
there's one particular um it's the buffaloesfire
20:36
.com i believe is the website that has that article
20:41
on it yeah Yeah. Kudos to y 'all for like kind
20:46
of moving back in that direction. Yeah. And just
20:49
flipping it on its head and re -explaining. And
20:53
we're having parents come up and just even just
20:57
sharing that first little slide. I shared it
21:01
with you in preparation for this interview of
21:03
like, this is what we did. This is how we flipped
21:06
it. Even just that parents go. oh that makes
21:10
so much more sense and I'm like yeah so even
21:14
just that one slide of we're just opposite of
21:19
neurotypicals and so we are not broken neurotypicals
21:24
that need to be fixed we're individuals that
21:27
have different needs and need more sensory support
21:30
in order to mentally function And so with the
21:35
root of autism being self -actualization first,
21:38
then they also have a higher self -actualization
21:43
than most adults. So children on the spectrum
21:48
don't have that adult over children hierarchy
21:51
that most neurotypical adults. have, they see
21:55
it as a human to human interaction and that humans
21:59
don't have power over other humans. So then you
22:03
get autistic children being diagnosed with ODD
22:06
just because they are demanding to have an opinion
22:10
or having their voice heard or being treated
22:14
like an equal or having the say in their own.
22:17
whatever it is, they want autonomy. And so they
22:21
have this extreme need for autonomy and control
22:24
over their own lives that a lot of neurotypical
22:27
parents don't get or understand because they're
22:30
so used to adults in charge over children. And
22:34
then you're not going to get that cooperation
22:37
from the children because they think they matter
22:41
too. And that's... I agree with them. So ODD
22:46
is more planted, though, in PTSD and a chaos
22:51
brain. They thrive in chaos. And ODD is a lot
22:55
more trickier than PDA because it's an external,
22:59
they will pull other people into it. So if things
23:04
are peaceful or quiet, they will get bored and
23:08
they will start a fight just to start a fight
23:10
because they thrive in chaos or that if things
23:14
were peaceful before, then things are going to
23:17
erupt and you are not going to, yeah, they just
23:25
have this fight to fight and we'll do the opposite
23:29
just to argue the opposite. I want to say that
23:34
outside of context of what we're talking about,
23:37
that sounds quite a bit like certain personality
23:45
disorders, such as narcissism. They can tend
23:48
to stir up drama when they're not getting their
23:51
supply, for example. But that is clearly not
23:55
what is going on here, correct? No, correct.
23:57
Can you clarify about that? ODD is kind of more
24:02
rooted in PTSD, that if they grew up in a chaos
24:06
home or if they... just have chaos in their brain.
24:12
They have a hard time emotionally regulating.
24:15
And so they would rather dysregulate other people
24:18
if they don't know how to regulate themselves,
24:21
then they're just going to dysregulate everybody
24:22
else. And they will fight just to fight. And
24:25
it looks like vindictiveness. But they really
24:28
do want to be good kids. They don't want to be
24:30
fighting. So if you... One of the things that
24:34
I say with ODD is you have to use the gray rock
24:37
method. And you're right about that. Narcissism,
24:40
autism has a lot of overlapping traits with narcissism.
24:45
It can be another co -occurrence. But autism
24:49
can also look a lot like narcissism. Because
24:54
with that self -actualization in that internal
24:57
world, they have a habit of of thinking about
25:01
themselves first, and then they have, what, a
25:03
hard time thinking about other people, having
25:06
a hard time with empathy, having a hard time
25:08
identifying or reading the social cues in the
25:11
room because they're so in their own head and
25:15
they're worried about their physical body and
25:17
they're worried about themselves that they tend
25:21
to forget that their decisions affect other people.
25:24
And so that can look like narcissism, but the
25:28
root cause. is different and I don't know a lot
25:32
about narcissism to talk all about it but that
25:36
it just looks like it. And so when you get to
25:40
the root of it and you find out, oh no, it's
25:43
not narcissism, it's autism. Because then the
25:45
difference is when you say, oh, you hurt my feelings
25:47
or something, this happened. The person with
25:50
autism will feel bad about it and they'll try
25:53
to fix the problem and they'll feel bad that
25:56
they misread the situation. Whereas the narcissist
25:58
is like, no, that was your fault. And so then
26:03
with PDA, it looks very similar that. they will
26:09
do the opposite of what you say and it'll come
26:11
across as defiant or, you know, anything like
26:14
that. But PDA is more internal. And so it'll
26:18
look more like a freeze response. Maybe we're
26:21
just sitting there. It's an executive function
26:23
disorder that even within ourselves, within our
26:28
own mind, that if I say something like, oh, I
26:31
should go do laundry. I just ruined my own chances
26:36
at doing laundry because my internal voice said
26:39
the word should. And that's a trigger word. And
26:42
so even just speaking and thinking to myself,
26:46
I had to change because the way that PDA gets
26:50
triggered and different phrases, like you even
26:53
have to speak to yourself like that. And so then
26:57
it turns into. It's just an executive function
27:01
disorder versus trying to get other people to
27:04
pull them into chaos. PDA doesn't really care
27:08
about other people. They just don't like being
27:11
told what to do. And feeling like they have to
27:15
do something makes them feel trapped and then
27:18
triggers a PTSD trigger response. they get really
27:26
tense and they kind of get fighty. And, you know,
27:29
so even if it's something that they want to do,
27:32
you're talking to three or four year olds and
27:34
they get really wishy -washy. Oh, I want to go
27:37
jump on the trampoline. Okay, we'll go jump on
27:40
the trampoline. No, I'm not going to go jump
27:42
on the trampoline. Oh. Well, then we're not going
27:44
to go jump on the trampoline. No, I want to go
27:46
jump on the trampoline. So it'll sound like that
27:49
because the second you say it, the second you
27:52
say, oh, yeah, we'll... It flips the switch.
27:55
It flips the switch and suddenly they want to
27:57
do the opposite of what you said just because
27:58
that's what you said. But they do want to go
28:00
jump on the trampoline. But now that you want
28:03
to go jump on the trampoline, like now they can't
28:06
because... triggered that response that now it
28:09
was your idea versus their idea. I want to go
28:13
back to the comparison between ODD and narcissism
28:21
for a moment. I do know quite a bit about it.
28:24
And one thing that there is in common there that
28:29
I've seen is that narcissism is created through
28:36
growing up actually in a toxic, abusive environment,
28:40
having neglect and things like that. And, you
28:44
know, quite often by another narcissistic family
28:48
member. And so, and I'm, some of the words that
28:52
you're using are the same kinds of words that
28:55
one uses when dealing with situations with narcissists,
28:59
like the gray rock method. This may be something
29:03
very interesting to explore sometime, but it
29:07
seems to me that perhaps ODD could even be another
29:12
way, like a different side of the coin or a different
29:16
way of looking at narcissistic behaviors as a
29:21
different way of approaching it, a different
29:23
way of managing it, perhaps. We're not here to
29:27
delve into that right now. But I wanted to bring
29:30
that up. That's an interesting thing to think
29:32
about. Yeah. Definitely not having an opinion.
29:36
Or having an attachment to the outcome is a big
29:39
trick, just in autism in general. Not having
29:43
too strong of an opinion either way. I don't
29:46
care if you wear your red shoes or your blue
29:49
shoes. Like, but what shoes do you want? And
29:51
I don't have to have an attachment to the outcome
29:53
and just. trying to gain cooperation. And like
29:59
I said, we have a whole training that where I
30:01
go over all the phrases you want to use or phrases
30:04
that you want to avoid, what are some strategies.
30:07
And so that's some of the things that we do as
30:11
autism coaching. So can you talk about Applied
30:24
Behavior Analysis ABA Therapy? So first, let's
30:30
preface this, that Sharla and I really don't
30:34
technically have a strong, like we don't, we
30:39
will tell neurotypicals why autistics really
30:43
don't like ABA and we can get into the problematic
30:46
history. But for our coaching, we're just working
30:50
with families and individuals. And one of the
30:53
things that we work with is, is the therapy working
30:56
for your kid, right? And so we don't have an
31:01
opinion about it. It's therapist to therapist,
31:04
and we will definitely get into that. So where
31:08
did I first hear about ABA therapy? was.. I'm studying
31:14
for my bachelor's degree in environmental science,
31:16
and I learned about it in an animal behavior
31:19
class. And when you talk to people about it,
31:24
they might mention the Nazis. And that's a great
31:28
social justice reason for not really wanting
31:31
to support ABA. But I learned about it before
31:35
the Nazis. So it kind of originates in the 1800s
31:39
when St. Bernard's in the Swiss Alps were being
31:42
trained. And so the roots of it are actually
31:46
an animal training for circus training for Indians
31:50
with elephants, how they utilized elephants in
31:54
their work and utilized St. Bernard's in the
31:57
Swiss Alps. So there's... The roots of it in
32:01
the 1800s is animal training. And it was the
32:04
Nazis who looked at that and said, can we apply
32:08
this to autistic children and make them better
32:10
workers? And so that's really where that comes
32:15
from. So that's a number. That's the huge reason
32:19
why a lot of autistic people are against it,
32:23
because it's not even based on human psychology.
32:26
And even if it was based on human psychology,
32:29
it would be based on neurotypical human psychology.
32:33
So it's a scale, but there's the negative, negative,
32:37
and the positive, positive. And to this day,
32:41
ABA is such an umbrella term that there is still
32:47
ABA therapists that use shock therapy treatment
32:50
on children. And so even if you are a positive
32:55
ABA therapist, we don't know going into it what
33:01
type of ABA therapist you are or what your approach
33:05
is. It's a lumping factor. They all kind of get
33:08
lumped in together, unfortunately. So we do talk
33:14
with parents to be like, okay, if they're using
33:17
an ABA therapist. And so in your... In your interview
33:21
with Sarah, she talked about how the kids loved
33:24
it and the kids wanted to go back and that it
33:27
was autism affirming. So she did her research
33:30
and she looked into the ABA and that they were
33:32
using it for a safety reason, not this 40 hours
33:36
of ABA therapy so that my kid learns to play
33:39
with your kid. I hate that meme. I hate that
33:42
meme. Why? Just let them play like a neurodivergent
33:47
child. Like, why does it have to play like a...
33:50
neurotypical. So that is one of the main problems
33:55
why people with autism are so wary of it because
33:59
there's a stigma. So are you going to get a positive
34:03
therapist or are you going to get an electric
34:06
shock therapist and you don't know which is which?
34:09
So you really have to be careful when looking
34:13
for an ABA or utilizing ABA therapy for your
34:18
kid if they don't have good communication you
34:21
really need to be in touch with your child so
34:23
if it's something like they change of behavior
34:26
they don't want to go to the therapist you really
34:29
need to look at that parents will usually pick
34:32
a therapist that lines up with their parenting
34:36
approach. So if you get a set of parents that
34:40
are already punished, that already do the obedience
34:43
thing, who already spank their kids, then they're
34:47
going to be more okay finding that punishment
34:49
ABA therapist and finding that person in alignment
34:53
with them. And then if you're somebody like Sarah,
34:56
who wants your kid to be positive, engaged, then
35:00
that's the type of therapist that they're going
35:02
to be looking for. So even if it's not ABA because
35:06
even I took speech therapy when I was six years
35:09
old and my first speech therapist would flick
35:13
my lips when I made a mistake and I stopped talking
35:18
and that was the big red flag to my mom because
35:22
if you know me I talk a lot and I did not shut
35:27
yeah I did not shut up as a little child so when
35:31
I started not talking and stop talking mom kind
35:36
of asked that about it and I said well she flicks
35:39
my lips I was getting bruising around my lips
35:42
and So once mom figured that out, she went down
35:46
to the school. And within the next week, I had
35:48
a whole new therapist. And then I started making
35:50
leaps and bounds of progress in speech therapy.
35:53
So we're not even talking about just ABA therapy.
35:56
Speech therapy, any type of therapy can be toxic,
36:00
can be good for you, can be bad for you, can
36:03
be. But how it's about you lining up with a therapist
36:07
that works for you and yourself. And we hope
36:11
to guide parents. kind of away from that punishment
36:16
reward paradigm and start leaning in towards
36:19
the connection and leaning into the relationship
36:22
and the positive aspects of autism and focusing
36:26
on their strengths instead of wrestling with
36:29
their weaknesses. Because you don't have, it
36:33
doesn't have to be this hard. It does not have
36:36
to be this hard. Just flow with it. So instead,
36:40
we use something called the PERMAA method. And
36:45
this was started by Martin Seligman. I don't
36:49
know if I'm saying that right. S -E -L -I -G
36:53
-M -A -N. Right here. Seligman. Seligman. Martin
37:00
Seligman. And it's a theory of well -being that
37:04
started with... positive psychology. And positive
37:08
psychology is not very old, because historically
37:13
speaking, most doctors would study mental illness,
37:17
but not mental wellness. So what Martin did,
37:21
was establish the Positive Psychology Center
37:25
and started to study happiness and what makes
37:29
human beings well, mentally well, what makes
37:33
us happy, what makes us more grounded. And so
37:37
we use the PERMA method because it's for human
37:40
beings and it's for all human beings, neurotypical,
37:45
neurodivergent, however. doesn't matter what
37:48
your special needs are, that everybody in their
37:51
life needs these five elements in order to be
37:57
happy. And so PERMA stands for positive emotion,
38:00
engagement, relationships, such as being supported,
38:05
loved, and valued, meaning adding purpose to
38:09
their life and to the activity. and accomplishment
38:12
and achievement, such as setting goals. So if
38:16
you take the PERMAA method, you can take the PERMAA
38:20
method and apply it to an ABA, and it's evolutionized
38:24
into a more positive role, and it's going into
38:28
a different direction where they're saying, okay,
38:30
we need to be this studying. of mental wellness
38:35
is showing that we need all of these things,
38:38
this engagement, the relationships, having positive
38:42
reinforcement is more effective than punishment.
38:47
And if you've never tried doing it positive,
38:51
you think you have to punish kids into acting
38:53
a certain way or you rely on obedience, then
38:57
you're not going to get. that outcome that you
39:00
think you're going to get or have that positive
39:02
relationship with your kid if you feel like you're
39:05
fighting your kid all the time that feels awful
39:07
and i hate i would hate for families to have
39:11
that relationship with their neurodivergent child
39:14
for sure so um you know if they have questions
39:19
that you know parents are sitting here listening
39:20
to this they're like okay so how do i know you
39:24
know no I'm confused and I'm concerned is my
39:26
ABA good is my ABA bad You can sit down and request
39:31
to sit down with the therapist before you hire
39:34
them and say, what skills do you work on? What
39:38
do you, what is your emphasis with teaching this
39:42
child? And if they come up with all of these
39:44
things that make them acceptable to neurotypicals,
39:47
such as, oh, eye contact, you know, certain conversation
39:54
things, stimming. You know, oh, we, you know,
39:59
we try to extinct the stimming stuff, you know,
40:02
because that makes people uncomfortable. That's
40:05
that those are red flags. What you want to hear
40:08
is like life skills, you know, brushing their
40:12
teeth, brushing their hair, kind of keeping a
40:16
schedule as they get older, tying their shoelaces,
40:19
you know, skills like that, that they're going
40:21
to need every day. Like we're not here to fix
40:24
them. We're just trying to teach them. skills
40:28
that they need that can match everybody else.
40:31
And help the parents pivot. You have coach, speaker,
40:35
advocate, consultant on your website. Then you
40:40
have keynote, abuse prevention, PDA, ODD, meltdowns,
40:45
de -escalation techniques, autism and sleep,
40:48
co -occurrences, and other stuff all on your
40:51
website. So we do presentations. They're $100,
40:57
but we do presentations and we do trainings and
40:59
we can go into either professional training or
41:02
therapists or whoever kind of wants to hear this
41:07
new view of autism. And we have different topics
41:13
that they can learn from. I once, somebody said,
41:17
oh, I do talks for the Senior Action Network.
41:21
And they asked us about, well, what does autism
41:24
have to do with seniors? And I was like. everything
41:28
because how many undiagnosed grandparents are
41:31
out there, or how many grandparents are now having
41:35
grandchildren getting diagnosed with autism,
41:39
and their view of autism is that old 1950s institutionalized
41:46
nonverbal. But as we learn more about what autism
41:50
is and isn't, and more people are coming to the
41:54
table with their autistic views and voices, and
41:57
saying, no, this is what autism is, more and
42:01
more people are getting diagnosed and late diagnosed.
42:10
So basically, anybody could come to y 'all and
42:14
go, hey, we would like to have a training or
42:17
have a coaching session, one -on -one, or for
42:21
a group, anything. Oh, anything from obviously
42:25
parent education to first responders education.
42:30
You know, what it looks like to come up to an
42:32
autistic person, what it looks like, you know,
42:35
they're not listening to you. So let's not taste
42:37
them. This is an autistic person, how to recognize
42:39
that. What it's like to have, you know, how to
42:44
be a better employer for autistic people. How
42:48
do you handle autistic clients? Basically, just
42:54
about anything autism -related, businesses, organizations,
43:00
families, we can cover that. What are the charges
43:06
for the services? We have a $50 membership that's
43:11
online. We have one month of programming for
43:14
that. It's $50 a month. We feel that's very...
43:20
reasonable. We're trying to keep it low so that
43:23
it's accessible to families. So in our first
43:27
month, we really talk about the genetic aspect.
43:32
Does the parent themselves also have autism?
43:36
So do they need to be putting autistic supports
43:39
in for themselves, not just their child? So you
43:41
sort of do like an evaluation when you're working
43:45
with a family. Right. And we have a questionnaire
43:48
that when They first come in, one of the first
43:52
assignments is a giant questionnaire where we
43:56
talk about what your pain points are, what your
43:59
issues are, how many autistics are there in the
44:04
family. If you say dynamics. family dynamics
44:08
older siblings younger siblings and we really
44:11
get into it and we have a once a month group
44:14
chat to just check in with everybody but it we
44:18
have a group that's on our website and everybody's
44:22
going through the same journey there's writing
44:24
assignments and so you'll see people writing
44:27
in the group about what their experiences are
44:30
what their pain points are and you'll be able
44:33
to hear back from other families that are going
44:35
through the same thing and they're going through
44:37
their own assignments. And so it's that level
44:40
of vulnerability and that level of accountability
44:42
of how are we approaching this and checking our
44:48
attitudes and checking our egos at the door and
44:52
saying we really want to be able to work with
44:55
them and support them. And I love that parents
45:00
that are now coming into their autism journey
45:03
are getting more of an autism first point of
45:06
view than parents did in the past. But it's not
45:10
enough. And I don't think it's loud enough. And
45:13
so we're just out here kind of doing our thing.
45:15
And we love doing the keynote. We have a $50
45:19
a month membership, and we have $100 per presentation.
45:23
And it can be on whatever topic you want. Everybody
45:26
benefits from understanding autism better. Yeah.
45:30
Period. So we can tie it into everything because
45:35
autism affects everything. For sure. People are
45:40
everywhere that are on the spectrum, in the spectrum
45:43
of humanity. It's great to build understanding,
45:48
build bridges between neurodivergence and neurotypicals
45:53
and just wanting to be there to support them.
45:55
And so if it's just $100 presentation, you can
45:59
either pick from the list that we already have,
46:02
or if you already have an idea about what you
46:05
want us to talk about, you know, just reach out
46:08
to us, ask. We will make it make sense. And we'll
46:12
make it work. And then you get the group support.
46:15
You get us in there. We will answer your questions.
46:19
And then a once a month live call where we check
46:23
in with you and you get to ask us. So they can
46:27
basically reach out to you anytime over phone,
46:31
text, email, check in. Or ask questions and then
46:36
you still have the, but that's like a brief like,
46:40
hey, this is happening. How do I deal with this
46:43
in this moment? Oh, yeah, they can ask the group.
46:45
So we have the group is back there. And so if
46:48
you ask a question in the group, we'll respond.
46:51
Other families will respond and you'll get everybody's
46:55
take. And I am such a big proponent of low tech,
47:00
easy solutions and solution based. thinking um
47:05
we're not going to sit here and complain about
47:09
the situation for too long i hate that we're
47:12
going to look at solutions and and if you're
47:15
on a wait list we want to be able to help you
47:18
and get some practical things in place so that
47:21
you're not waiting two years in order to get
47:24
the support that you need from a therapist or
47:27
anything like that that's awesome Do you have
48:01
any upcoming events or talks, anything coming
48:06
up? Well, she does. Yeah, we are in talks with
48:11
OUUC. I have been cleared to say that we are
48:16
in talks. The Olympia Unitarian Universalist
48:19
Church? Yes, so OUUC .org. We are in talks with
48:26
kind of using them as a location. We have some
48:32
working with some local places about para support
48:38
groups and then actually autistic support group
48:42
adults, autistic adult support group and having
48:46
a space for classes and support groups. Because
48:49
part of the issue is we. Schools don't want us
48:54
because we homeschool. And churches, people are
49:00
a little nervous to go into. And community buildings
49:05
have rent and high rent and might be not affordable
49:11
for things. And so I was approached by... one
49:18
of the board members and so we're just in the
49:20
infancy of this idea but kind of hoping to do
49:23
a showcase of of the Autistic Maslow's Triangle
49:28
because what happened is we have a lot of agencies
49:31
and organizations that kind of want to work with
49:34
us and they started requesting their boards started
49:38
requesting oh can we have a free presentation
49:41
can we have a free presentation can we have a
49:44
free presentation so instead of just doing a
49:47
whole lot of free presentations for four to five
49:50
people that's a board per board whatever one
49:54
of the things I'm hoping to do I'm I want to
49:56
manifest it just like we manifested this radio
49:59
show that they're doing a showcase for all the
50:05
area agencies for where we shared the Autistic
50:10
Maslow's Triangle. And they get to come and see
50:14
the space and wanting to, as programs are getting
50:22
their funding cut and locations cut and contracts
50:25
are being ended and there's a lot of fear surrounding.
50:30
how autism resources are going to look going
50:33
forward, that they kind of want to support the
50:37
marginalized community of folks. That's what
50:41
we're kind of working towards, hoping for having
50:43
this showcase, and then seeing what comes out
50:47
of that, what agencies want to work with OUUC
50:51
or with us. But I do want to try and get everybody
50:54
in the same room so that we can start talking
50:57
and get some inter -organizational programs going
51:02
and teaming up and coming together to support
51:07
the autism community of the South Sound in a
51:11
powerful way, in a way that we need to be coming
51:15
into action moving forward and asking ourselves
51:21
how we're doing that. Where can people find an
51:24
announcement about that? You can follow us on
51:27
our Facebook page, or if you are an organization
51:31
that you think you want to get involved with
51:33
that, you can reach out through our website.
51:35
So yeah, but at the end of the day, it depends
51:38
on the date and stuff. So keep your Friday evenings
51:41
open, guys. So I never specified it, are you..?
51:46
You're a for -profit business? We are. We are
51:49
a for -profit. Yeah, so you can volunteer. So
51:54
if we don't have an actual office, we can come
51:56
in and help us do social media or something like
51:59
that. But we are trying to write a book. If you
52:02
have any editing skills, any cover art, any experience
52:09
publishing a book, any kind of social media help,
52:13
anything that you think that you can help us
52:15
with. is is greatly welcomed donations donations
52:19
100 of them would go back into the business one
52:24
thing that it would go towards is the website
52:26
we want our website to be kind of our hub rather
52:30
than the Facebook group and we need it to do
52:33
a lot more things but that takes plugins and
52:36
apps which takes money so it would go into updating
52:41
upgrading our tech. The other thing that you
52:44
brought up that, you know, what if that $50 isn't
52:46
in their budget? We can provide scholarships
52:50
if we have enough donations. If people cannot
52:53
front that $50, we can, I would like to do college
53:00
scholarships in the future. Like this is, you
53:04
know, I have an autistic daughter and she goes
53:06
to the community college and we went to the,
53:11
excuse me, the financial people. And I was like,
53:15
hey, do you have any, she does not qualify for
53:18
FAFSA. Do you have any scholarships for autistic
53:22
individuals? Oh, you have to go to the disabilities
53:24
office for that. I go to the disability office.
53:27
You have to go to the financial office for that.
53:29
Nobody has any information on any kind of college.
53:34
scholarships for autistic people. That is something
53:36
that I would like to be able to provide. You
53:40
know, we need donations for that. You know, it's,
53:42
there's so many ways that you can help and pretty
53:46
much all of it will go straight into the business.
53:48
We're not here to line our pockets. We are going
53:50
to get, you know, we do have our time that we're
53:54
putting into it, but we are, we are mostly here
53:57
for, for the business and for. You know, just
54:01
growing it and growing it and growing it. Right
54:03
now we're in Washington and North Carolina, but
54:05
what's stopping us from going and giving talks
54:07
in Michigan or Nebraska or New Mexico? You know,
54:10
nothing. If people are like, yes, we really want
54:12
to support this message and we really want to
54:14
support spreading the triangle, how can we help?
54:18
Like, reach out and we'll... and tell us what
54:21
it is that you want to do. Because I need like
54:25
physical help to go do events because I have
54:28
MS. And so I'm really limited on the physical
54:32
things that I can do over here. I can't help
54:36
her. Right. So if we go to a conference and we
54:38
have a table at a conference for a weekend, it's
54:41
just me, right? And it's just me by myself. And
54:45
I don't have a second person to come with me.
54:48
And some of these conferences require a second
54:50
person at your table so that you can go eat or
54:53
go to the bathroom. Wow, that's tough. You really
54:56
need some volunteers, don't you? Is there anything
54:59
else you would like to share? There's so much.
55:04
There's so much like because, you know, when
55:07
you're passionate about something like you could
55:08
just talk all day about it. So it's really hard
55:11
to just pick out, you know, things. But I think
55:14
that you did a really good job with your questioning
55:15
and stuff that we really were able. Oh, I appreciate
55:19
that. So how do how do people connect with you?
55:22
Where do they find you? We are on Facebook, Neuro
55:27
Spicy Sisters Autism Coaching. We have our website,
55:32
www.nsautismcoaching .com um you can email
55:40
me at Allyx that's a l l y x dot steffens s t
55:47
e f f e n s @ gmail .com um and so yeah we have
55:56
a website and you can reach out to us and our
55:59
phone number is 360 That's 726 -2475. Again,
56:07
that's 360 -726 -2475. Message us, call us, text
56:15
us, email us. We check in on everything. Well,
56:20
thank you both so very much. I'm so very glad
56:23
it worked out. Thank you for having us. Yeah.
56:25
Thank you. That's it for today's resource report
56:36
produced by Pathways to Agency. At Pathways to
56:39
Agency, we are driven by the belief that everyone
56:42
should have the tools and support to achieve
56:45
their goals and thrive in their communities.
56:48
Our mission is to bridge the gaps in understanding,
56:51
accessibility, and trust by connecting individuals
56:54
to resources and sharing information and processes
56:58
that can lead to personal and community growth.
57:03
Resource Report offers information about existing
57:06
and emerging nonprofits and resource organizations.
57:10
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