Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Pastry vs. Savory: The Michelin Burnout Trap (w/ Casey Doody) Ep. 98

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Pastry vs. Savory: The Michelin Burnout Trap (w/ Casey Doody) Ep. 98 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello Chefs, This is CHEFS PSA Podcast.
0:02
I'm your host Andre Natera. Today is a very special episode.
0:05
It is the 1st guest centric episode that we're going to have
0:09
on Chefs PSA. Our guest today is Casey Duty.
0:13
She's a pastry chef from Chicago.
0:15
She's had an extensive career as a pastry chef, including time in
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New York, Dallas and now Chicago.
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Her experience includes working in hotels, Michelin star
0:24
restaurants, country clubs. I know Casey very well and she's
0:27
extremely talented. In this episode we're going to
0:30
we'll talk about some things that are on the top of a lot of
0:32
people's minds. We're going to get into
0:33
everything from the perspective of being a female chef in the
0:36
kitchen, how she handles burnout and approaches her mental
0:40
health. What are some career path
0:42
choices to consider when becoming a pastry chef?
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What are some trends that are upcoming with food and how to
0:47
build a better relationship between savory chefs and pastry
0:50
chefs? Without further ado, here's the
0:53
interview. Casey, it's good to see you.
1:07
It is so great to be in Austin. We've been trying to connect
1:11
for, I don't know, for a long time, but I'll I'll tell you one
1:13
of the things that I'm really excited about.
1:15
You may not know this because I don't know how much you listen
1:18
to the podcast, but this is the first chef's PSA episode with a
1:21
guest. You're the You're the official
1:23
1st guest. I am so honored.
1:25
Thank you so much. And what's interesting about it
1:29
is I get a lot of DMS from a lot of people, and there's three
1:31
subjects that they always want me to talk about that I'm not
1:34
qualified to talk about. So that's why I'm really glad
1:36
they're here. OK, tell me what is?
1:38
It they always say, what about pastries?
1:40
What about from a pastry perspective?
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And I'm like, OK, I'm not the expert.
1:43
You don't want my advice, the. Slavery.
1:45
Chefs leave the pastry out. I get it.
1:47
I'm going. To give you bad advice, don't
1:49
ask me. The other thing they always ask
1:50
me is I get a lot of questions from a lot of people.
1:53
That said, we'd love for you to talk about it from a woman's
1:55
perspective. Obviously I have some difficulty
1:57
there. I can't.
1:58
My experiences that I share on Chef's PSA are all about my
2:02
perspective. I I have a hard time stick it by
2:06
toe in the water to say I could give it from a from a female
2:08
perspective and then the third thing is I know you're big time
2:11
into health and Wellness. The number one question I get to
2:15
do an episode, Can you do an episode on Burnout and so?
2:20
Oh, been there, done that. We can.
2:22
I want to. I want.
2:22
To talk about all. Those three things.
2:24
But before we even get started, I saw your post on Instagram.
2:29
I think yesterday or the day before you were, you were
2:31
cooking with Paula Brandt. I was, I had the the greatest
2:35
honor. My friends own sushi bar and you
2:37
guys actually have one here in Austin, the original sushi bar.
2:41
And they were doing a collaboration dinner.
2:44
They did one actually, I believe here not too long ago.
2:48
They flew him out to Chicago and they said, hey, do you want in
2:52
on it? Do you want dessert?
2:53
I said absolutely yes. So it was cool, like back to New
2:58
York Rd. So I was there just about under
3:01
a year because COVID, but it felt really good to be back in
3:06
the kitchen with them New York mindset.
3:08
So for people that don't know Paula Brandt, he was What was
3:11
the name of the chef or the restaurant that he had in New
3:13
York? Was it?
3:16
I didn't do my research. I, I, it doesn't matter.
3:19
But he was. He had a documentary.
3:21
He did, he said. He had a camera crew that
3:23
followed him around for 10 years.
3:24
So he, he, I I want to say that this documentary was very
3:27
successful and he was one of the first chefs that, you know,
3:32
before Chef's Table, before all this other shit that people were
3:36
watching. It's like you watch the Paula
3:37
Brandt documentary, like, fuck, I want to cook food like that,
3:40
like he's a he's a gangster, but he also looked like a psycho.
3:44
I don't know you so it. Would not.
3:46
Be in the same kitchen and having conversations with him.
3:51
I haven't had a conversation with another chef like that in a
3:54
long time, and I think there's just a mindset when you're in
3:58
different cities. I'm sure Austin's very different
4:01
than Chicago and Chicago is extremely different than New
4:04
York. And funny enough, in our
4:06
conversations, the pastry chef that I worked under and who is
4:10
my mentor actually was one of his pastry chefs.
4:14
And it's it's just a small world.
4:15
We're all connected and it was really cool to just hear about
4:18
like the earlier days of like my mentor who worked with him, and
4:23
then it comes full circle, so. That's pretty cool what we what
4:25
we make. So I did dessert and it was out
4:29
of my element because I'm very Italian French classic with a
4:32
modern twist and it was Japanese sushi bar.
4:37
So what better than coffee? Chocolate miso.
4:41
So I did a little rendition of almost like a custardy creme
4:44
brulee. It was a black sesame twil on
4:48
the bottom of a set. Bahibay Velveona.
4:51
Hello chocolate custard. And then I torched it with a
4:54
little bit of the free straight miso and demerara sugar.
4:57
Threw a bunch of chocolate crunchies in there in an ISI
5:01
container. I made a coffee miso on glaze,
5:04
but when you charge it it's a foam, so put that on top.
5:09
Some more dehydrated miso and. It's good.
5:13
Everyone finished their plates. Let's just put it that way.
5:17
We'll stay humble. But yeah, snow was great.
5:20
And what was even better is John Shields was there with my mentor
5:24
currently my my boss, Giuseppe Tantori of GT Prime and they
5:30
were right in front of me. They got to witness the whole
5:31
thing and to have one of your people there and it was just, it
5:36
was just awesome to share that experience with so many people,
5:39
friends, connections. And and John Shields for people
5:43
that don't know chef of Smith in Chicago and the Loyalist 3
5:47
Michelin stars or two. He just got 3.
5:49
He just got three. Shout out to those guys,
5:50
Congratulations. That's pretty cool.
5:53
When when I was a chef, still retired now.
5:56
But when I was still a chef and we were opening the restaurant,
5:59
Garrison Smith was the frame of reference that we said, OK,
6:03
that's the aspirational look at what they're doing.
6:06
They got the bullseye. That's what we need to
6:08
accomplish. I don't think we got close to
6:10
them because you know, obviously, you know, they're
6:13
they're they're they're gangsters at what they do.
6:15
But I say that because it speaks to the admiration that I have
6:21
for for Smith and chef John Shields.
6:24
It's it's absolutely amazing and kudos to all the stars I know.
6:28
Michelin just came out with Chicago's not too long ago, and
6:33
it's awesome to just see everybody evolve.
6:35
So I know you've worked in some really amazing restaurants and
6:38
you've also worked in a Country Club and you've done the hotel
6:42
thing and you've done the Michelin thing.
6:44
You were part of. If I'm not mistaken, you were
6:46
part of the Noma Mexico team. I was there just to stash so
6:50
that that was a week long trip was there to stash a.
6:55
When I lived in Texas I had the opportunity to do a lot of
6:59
travel with Steven Pyles and during that trip we had linked
7:05
up with Gabe and I believe he's a friend.
7:08
So it's it's awesome. Again small world.
7:11
But what originally had happened was again power of social media
7:15
like connecting with people. At that point in time, I was
7:21
five years maybe into my pastry chefing and it was just a really
7:27
cool experience, staging and the jungle.
7:31
You did the same thing for 7-8 hours that you were there.
7:35
But I mean, if there's nothing like it, you know, their team
7:39
was definitely down there and did what they do very, very well
7:44
and we had to enjoy dinner after.
7:46
So there was a group of us from Dallas that ate there, got to
7:49
experience it and Renee was there himself.
7:51
So it was, it was magical. It really was.
7:54
Yeah, I. Bet shout out to Gabriella.
7:55
So Gabe is the chef here at Bacalar.
7:58
Ironically enough, he and I grew up on the same block.
8:01
Oh my gosh. Yeah, too funny small.
8:03
World, right? Anyway, so let's talk about
8:07
being a pastry chef. One of the questions that I get
8:09
most frequently is I'm a young cook.
8:13
I don't know which direction to go.
8:15
Should I go savory or should I go pastry?
8:18
I always tell them I You might not know this, but I started out
8:22
in the pastry kitchen. I did not, so I did.
8:24
Not my first two years in culinary were in pastry.
8:27
Something bad happened. We need help on the line.
8:30
I went on the line. I stayed on the line.
8:32
I never went back. I liked it.
8:33
I got addicted to it. But I wanted to be a pastry
8:35
chef. One of the things that I had
8:37
thought early on in my career and one of the things that
8:40
someone had mentioned to me is that the difference between a a
8:43
pastry chef and a savory chef from an opportunity standpoint
8:47
is that almost every restaurant will have a chef, but not every
8:50
restaurant will have a pastry chef.
8:52
So now, understanding that as a chef and you've been in this
8:55
game for quite some time, if you had to give the sales pitch why
8:58
someone should be as a pastry chef, what would it be?
9:00
You get to celebrate life's best moments through the art of
9:05
dessert. From the beginning of the mail
9:08
bread service to the end desserts.
9:11
It's something that's very special.
9:13
Birthdays, anniversaries, any type of celebration.
9:17
You round out that meal with, usually special dessert or the
9:21
kitchen knows that you're doing a celebration of some sort of
9:24
occasion and they make it special.
9:27
And sometimes you get really lucky and you know the chef and
9:29
they do something, you know, off menu and send it out.
9:32
But from start to finish, it's a part of the experience.
9:36
And I think yes, all the food courses, whatnot, it's
9:41
memorable, but sometimes that lasts a little bite.
9:45
So you talk about the passion and there's the the creativity
9:49
aspect that goes into being a pastry chef from a career
9:53
standpoint. If you could go back and you
9:55
look at your career and you say, OK, knowing what I know now, if
9:58
I would give myself advice as a young green pastry student, what
10:06
would you tell yourself? What would be your culinary path
10:08
that you would redirect yourself with?
10:10
Honestly now, I wish I would have travelled earlier in my
10:15
career. There's opportunities that
10:18
schools have to go to France and do internships in Europe and I I
10:23
really wish I would have had the courage to do that at the time.
10:28
When I did go to culinary school, I went to the Art
10:30
Institute and that was kind of when they were in that limbo
10:33
phase of transitioning with the accreditation.
10:36
And same thing with, I believe, the cord on blue.
10:40
And I feel like I didn't grasp enough.
10:42
It was more savory than pastry. So I decided to go home.
10:47
I was in Dallas at the time and went to Chicago and I went to
10:50
the French pastry school and that's when I really fell in
10:53
love with making pastries. I think their courses over there
10:58
are great, but knowing that the schools had opportunities to
11:01
travel, I definitely wish I would have done that.
11:06
But looking back, you don't do it for the money.
11:09
I mean, money comes eventually, but you don't do it for the
11:13
money, you do it because again, like I said, you celebrate
11:17
life's best moments through the art of dessert.
11:21
And to be quite honest, if you got to be patient and you have
11:24
to be passionate 2 big key things, read, read your
11:30
cookbooks. Front to back.
11:31
There's tons and tons of different platforms from Pastry
11:35
Arts magazine to so good magazine.
11:38
There's certain companies that have recipes on their sites.
11:42
I love for magazine too, just to kind of browse through their
11:45
recipes. But as a young cook, don't do it
11:49
for the money. You got to do it for passion and
11:52
then to touch on hotels and country clubs.
11:56
That's more production based. If you, if you like to be in the
12:01
trenches as far as like doing hundreds and sometimes thousands
12:05
of things, people are great at that.
12:09
And then the smaller restaurants like the Michelin and you know,
12:12
just the four walls of being in one establishment, it's a
12:16
different speed. It's, it's not that it's slower,
12:19
but it's more precise. I feel like sometimes And with
12:24
hotels, there's so many different avenues and outlets,
12:28
whereas restaurants and you know, in the Michelin world, you
12:32
just kind of have that one focus.
12:34
So it depends on what you want. It depends I think where your
12:37
heart is, what you really, truly want.
12:39
I think it's a lot easier as a pastry chef to go from high
12:44
production hotel Country Club to the Michelin solo restaurant
12:49
world. There's definitely a lot of
12:51
opportunity within hotels and country clubs, but as far as
12:58
restaurants go, it's it's a hit or miss.
13:03
You know, there's so look at the economy right now, what's going
13:07
on and you know within restaurants, what are you?
13:13
Talking about. I think with just the.
13:15
Room's on fire, you. Know it's just I've I've opened
13:19
a restaurant and close to restaurants within the last year
13:22
and you know wasn't a multi unit role and that's where you really
13:26
have to look big picture. I think there's very different
13:30
steps to take. It just depends what route you
13:33
want to go and you can work your way up the ladder in hotels,
13:37
from pastry cook to pastry supervisor to pastry sou and
13:41
then chef. But a lot of those hotel pastry
13:45
chefs I feel like are very comfortable and like to stay.
13:48
The benefits are great. The money's great.
13:51
Golden handcuffs. Unfortunately don't wear those,
13:54
but now being in a multi unit role, it's it.
13:58
It mirrors that, but in a different sense of teams like I.
14:05
There's so many teams at each restaurant, right?
14:08
It's not just one pastry team producing XY and Z.
14:13
So if I'm a young pastry cook and my only objective right now
14:18
is I want to learn everything, I want to be exposed to bread
14:22
making. I want to be exposed to pastries
14:24
and doughs and lamination. Hotels, hotels, Country clubs.
14:30
I I feel like a lot of hotels now still do their lamination.
14:36
I've I've seen it enough through social media and knowing people
14:41
that they do have the lamination programs.
14:42
But as far as country clubs, I remember using a lot of the like
14:48
pull the freeze to bake all that good stuff because.
14:51
The Brie or whatever. Yes, it just it's what you did.
14:56
So if you want to, if you want to build up your your skills,
15:00
you'd want to start them out in a hotel or some larger
15:03
operation. But if you wanted to build some
15:05
finesse, you would send them. You send them the Michelin
15:08
route. Now, having worked in both,
15:13
there's obviously culture differences, right?
15:14
There's. Very much so.
15:16
I always say this sometimes you could.
15:19
It's it's a little bit of a shock when you start working
15:21
your way up, because if you're coming from a casual environment
15:24
and then you go up to the Michelin environment, the
15:27
intensity is there, The details, things that seem arbitrary in
15:31
one restaurant are ultra specific in another.
15:34
You can't slam a door or make sure your towel is folded.
15:37
This way or very much so, more corporate.
15:39
Yeah, right. We're in other places.
15:41
You're slamming doors and your eggs are on the floor and people
15:44
walking over it and a Roach runs across the kind of board and
15:46
like, oh, that's OK, and some some more.
15:48
Oh my God, where was? This story for another day, but
15:53
I guess my point is where did you go first?
15:57
Did you start at the high end and then and and go to a more
16:00
casual city or did you go casual and then go high end or?
16:03
I started at the Witt Hotel in Chicago.
16:06
So at at that time it was one of the newer hotels that that had
16:10
opened in the city. It had a great rooftop, tons of
16:13
buzz. It was one of those like hit
16:16
hotels that where everyone wanted to be seen at.
16:19
We were busy and I think after two years I felt like it's
16:26
served its purpose and I think you just need to know when to
16:29
move on. Because at that point, once you
16:33
go from pastry cook to pastry supervisor and that's it, until
16:37
the pastry chef leaves, right, you know you're just in that
16:40
role because there's nowhere up to go.
16:44
You know you want more for yourself.
16:46
And that's where even though it's a hotel, it was still super
16:50
like it was a Hilton. It was part of the like
16:52
DoubleTree group of hotels, but higher end.
16:56
And at that point you know you, you did what you need to do the
17:01
outlets until the menu changed. You did the same thing every
17:05
day. Banquets, charity events, all
17:08
that good stuff, weddings, cutting cakes.
17:11
And even though it was a hotel, going into the Country Club was
17:19
a great transition. It was very similar in the sense
17:22
where the Country Club had outlets, you had banquets, you
17:26
had the charity events, you had the wedding.
17:28
So it's kind of like a mirrored experience.
17:31
Different pace, but. Different pace, slower than the
17:33
hotel, but at the same time you cannot compare the golf
17:38
tournaments and outside gatherings. 4th of July you know
17:43
and a Memorial Day, Easter brunch, all that stuff.
17:47
You know you are working every holiday.
17:49
You are outside for some of these events.
17:52
I remember the golf tournaments. It's like, how do you do
17:54
pastries outside? This is when I was living in
17:57
Texas and it's 85 plus every day with humidity, so we got really
18:04
creative. I think the boundaries
18:05
creatively were were pushed because it wasn't like a normal
18:09
Country Club. The finesse was was sort of a
18:11
bit there. I had an amazing, amazing chef
18:14
over there. Robin Murphy shout out to you.
18:17
He came from hotels. He was an executive chef at a
18:20
hotel. So kind of having that mixture
18:24
of that high end, high production meets finesse was a
18:30
really cool experience at a Country Club because not too
18:33
many country clubs do that. It's this is it, this is how it
18:35
is. We're not going to change it.
18:37
Membership this, this is what you get.
18:42
So at that point in Dallas, there was so many cool things
18:46
going on and in the four walls of a Country Club, it's very
18:50
private. Right.
18:51
You can't participate in that tastemaker event or you can't,
18:55
you know, do some of those local events that are happening and
19:00
so. Some of your some of your
19:02
networking is it's limited and some of your.
19:04
Very much so. Some some of your reach to the
19:08
community to get to know you as a chef is limited when you work
19:10
in a hotel or a Country Club. More so a Country Club probably
19:13
than a. Hotel, yes, it's very private
19:14
and. Especially we got APR person
19:16
behind you or a managing director of a Country Club that
19:20
says, hey, take that down. Oh yes, been there, done that.
19:24
No photos. I mean the amount of, I don't
19:27
want to call them like celebrities but the people that
19:29
would walk through the doors, you know we did something and
19:32
the Heisman Trophy was there and a lot of NFL players and
19:36
presidents and just just all types of walking life.
19:40
But yes there's there's definitely that like little NDA
19:44
side of it's that you don't sign one but but.
19:49
You want to get your job right? Absolutely.
19:51
And at that time, I was 23. I became an executive pastry
19:55
chef at the Dallas Country Club at 23.
19:59
So let's stop right there. Crazy was.
20:02
It was it a lot of pressure because you're 23, you're a
20:05
female in a predominantly male, driven, even in the pastry
20:12
department. The pastry chef performing was a
20:15
male, yes. So what I've noticed in my
20:18
career is that even though it is a larger portion of males in the
20:23
kitchen to females and I think that's that's changing.
20:25
I think it's probably more of a 5050 split now, but definitely
20:29
years ago it was probably like 7030 and then depending on where
20:32
you were, you might be the only female in the kitchen, so.
20:35
Being 20 times. Being 23, being a female and
20:39
leading A-Team and it sounds like they were all male, what
20:43
were some of the challenges that you faced specifically around
20:47
being a female? Or were they just strictly
20:49
leadership challenges, regardless of gender?
20:52
I never really faced a lot of the gender aspect to this
20:57
conversation, more so it was my age, how young I was.
21:02
The experience definitely had to prove myself because of that
21:09
lack of or the age. You know, the age.
21:12
It's like, oh, she's young. She doesn't know what she's
21:13
doing. But then you'd make a dessert.
21:15
Super cool, creative. OK, yeah, you know what you're
21:17
doing, done. And I think the chase of that,
21:21
like trying to prove yourself that outweighed more of the the
21:28
gender specific challenges. But what I will say is I've
21:32
always been the only female I've.
21:36
I've always had chefs above me that were male.
21:40
So to talk on this like male, female thing, I never there.
21:44
There's people out there that God bless, you know, they have
21:47
their stories and kitchens, you know, have a wrap for certain
21:51
situations, never had to experience it.
21:55
But because of visually how I looked, I was younger, you know,
22:00
blonde hair, you know, cute small girl, you know, walking in
22:03
a kitchen. It was always like, oh, she
22:05
doesn't know what she's doing. Or oh, you're cute and people
22:09
would hit on you. And that's where it's like the
22:11
flirtation in the kitchen was more of a problem than again
22:17
being a female, like gender wise and wasn't treated any
22:20
differently. But everyone was older than me,
22:24
like a good like, decade plus. And at that point it did work to
22:28
my advantage when I was at the Country Club because all of the
22:31
chefs there, if you do listen to this, you're amazing.
22:34
I love you. I miss you guys, but they really
22:37
helped me with leadership skills.
22:38
Like Dallas Country Club set me up as a leader, as a manager to
22:44
have those skills and the pastry team over there, most of them
22:49
stayed for the five years that I was there.
22:52
I didn't have too much overturn there, but again, a lot of the
22:56
pastry cooks were at least 10 to 15 years older than me.
23:01
And it's really hard to manage people who are older than you
23:06
because they look at you and they're like when you're younger
23:07
than me and that's when they don't call you chef, they call
23:10
you by your first name and they feel like there's some level of
23:13
respect there that. Passive aggressive thing, right?
23:17
Like in kitchens where when when they know you're the chef but
23:20
they still they still call you by your first name and they stop
23:22
and they don't call you. Chef and I still get that.
23:25
I still get that. It's interesting how that works.
23:30
But you know what it it makes you stronger.
23:33
And luckily I don't have any crazy horror stories other than
23:37
recently I had somebody say, you know, let me apologize.
23:42
I judged you when you were walking into the kitchen.
23:44
I looked at your Instagram. I didn't think you knew what you
23:47
were doing and and I need to apologize because you you
23:52
actually like your dessert was phenomenal and thank you so much
23:55
for your help and I was impressed.
23:57
Don't judge people by their Don't judge anyone by their
23:59
Instagram. You know, it's it's funny.
24:02
I'd like to talk about social media.
24:03
But before we talk about social media, I want to go back to
24:06
something that you said. So you're 23 and you're a
24:12
leader, but you're also a creative and you want to create
24:15
beautiful desserts and you want to set the world on fire and you
24:18
want to express yourself through the people that you're making.
24:20
And you're still because you're 23, I think realistically you're
24:22
also still learning. Very much so.
24:25
So how did you balance the leadership with the wanting,
24:32
still wanting to be the creative force behind the culinary pastry
24:36
department? I will say Dallas is 1 amazing
24:42
Food City. And with that creative aspect
24:45
and the leadership aspect, I had the tools to help me in that
24:49
leadership role, learning all of that.
24:51
The creative came from eating out, networking through chefs.
24:56
And at that time, that's when they did the Stars, they had
24:59
that star system. It wasn't Michelin, but it Yes,
25:03
yes, yes and. By the way, four-star chef right
25:07
here, California. News and.
25:10
And twice Best Chef DFW 2011 2012.
25:14
But I'm not bragging. See, people like you, I mean, it
25:16
was you got to know certain chefs, network with them.
25:20
You know, you'd go out, you'd have conversations.
25:23
You talk about cookbooks and the hospitality industry in Texas.
25:30
It's hard to explain because until you experience it, it's
25:34
like none other. And I think that's really where
25:37
you piggyback off each other. There's a lot of collaborations
25:40
and. Everyone knows each other,
25:42
they're all at the same events. There's there's always the after
25:45
party that they're all going to get together.
25:47
Wasn't going to talk about that, but yes.
25:48
But but it's true, and it's I I jokingly say it's like, it's
25:53
like the Illuminati, right? Because what people don't
25:56
understand is like, if you get in, you get into that group, you
25:59
get into all of them, right? Because let's just say you get
26:02
into this restaurant group and that chef runs in those circles.
26:06
You're going there too. You could go to all these
26:09
restaurants down, everyone knows you, and everyone's talking to
26:13
the sous chef that the chef brings with them to the events
26:16
or the pastry chef because they're like they're going to be
26:19
somebody. One day I might need them to be
26:21
my chef. The cuisine later I might need
26:22
them to be my pastry chef. So.
26:25
You just hit the nail on the head.
26:26
That's exactly how it goes, how it went.
26:29
And I think through that networking and going to the
26:33
events and kind of being behind those four walls of that private
26:39
entity really catapulted, wanting to do all that stuff and
26:44
being a part of those events. And there's just so many.
26:49
I could like, make a list of so many people and be like, Oh my
26:51
gosh, thank you. Because if if it wasn't for the
26:54
chef, friends and chefs in Dallas, I wouldn't be where I am
26:58
today and working with so many local farms and purveyors, and
27:04
there's just so much local available in Texas.
27:07
Different. From Chicago.
27:10
I mean, you have your farms that you do work with.
27:13
But I don't know, Dallas is different.
27:16
It's there's something different about like farm to table, garden
27:20
to table. And I really got passionate
27:23
about that. When I was living in Texas.
27:25
I was a part of a program that did garden to table lunches at
27:29
schools. Oh, that's cool.
27:31
And so there's there was really that momentum of, you know,
27:36
doing stuff with vegetables and fruits that people were growing
27:39
and people started, you know, doing the greenhouses and
27:42
compost programs. And that's where the Dallas
27:45
Country Club my last two years there, we created that.
27:48
So it was really cool to grow the violas and you know the mint
27:51
and the basil and everything that we were using cause
27:54
literally would drive a golf cart out there, pick it, go back
27:57
into the building and use it. So I used to have a restaurant
28:00
in Highland Park, right by the Dallas Country Club by the
28:02
Highland Park Village. I have no idea about this.
28:05
You didn't know that? Oh my gosh, tell me.
28:08
So you know where the the movie theater is, right?
28:10
The marquee movie theater. So the group that we were with
28:14
owned the restaurants right next door And the movie theater.
28:18
OK, Anyway, I used to drive by the Dallas Country Club all the
28:21
time, and I was like, what is back?
28:22
What? Is behind those gates.
28:25
What's behind those gates? And I had some friends that
28:27
worked there back at the time, back in back in those days.
28:29
But yeah, Dallas is a good food scene.
28:31
And what I find really interesting about Dallas, and
28:36
I'll tell you this because I segues into the the next
28:39
conversation about social media is when I was in Dallas, I
28:43
started to kind of understand social media a little bit.
28:46
And when I say a little bit, I mean like a little bit like
28:48
Instagram was still relatively. New.
28:50
Yeah, relatively new. And I was like, what do I post
28:52
on here? Do I post a food picture or, you
28:55
know, whatever the case may be? And Instagram eventually became
29:01
a chef's portfolio and a chef's resume.
29:02
And so you wanted to, I mean, you were stealing ideas, 'cause
29:05
you were looking at what other people were like, oh, that's
29:07
that's a cool idea. We should do that or make sure
29:09
they're in Chicago so no one in Dallas knows we're taking it or
29:12
Hong. Kong.
29:13
I have so many funny stories about social media and this this
29:16
topic because I worked for a chef who I no longer talk to,
29:23
not to spill tea or anything. I know people love that on
29:26
podcasts. But I worked with a group, you
29:29
know, moved on and it was funny, 'cause one of the holiday
29:32
parties, like, you know, her managers, you know, it's
29:35
Christmas, let's go, let's all go to dinner.
29:38
And we did that. And I remember, like, wanting to
29:41
order a specific pasta. I was like, oh, that sounds
29:43
really good. And the chef was like, no, no,
29:45
no, no. Like I had it, you know, two
29:47
weeks ago, Like let's order something else because it was
29:49
like family style and a really cool place in in the city of
29:54
Chicago. OK, get to the story, Casey.
29:58
But yeah, it was the same dish that was on our menu like that
30:00
was put on like 2 weeks ago to to the tea of all the
30:03
ingredients and garnishes, just in a different format like the
30:07
pasta was just a different shape.
30:09
So one of the because you see that a lot.
30:11
I I don't think you see it as much anymore because it's very
30:13
policed because everyone has Instagram.
30:15
We're all following the same chefs.
30:16
We're all looking at the same food.
30:18
So you you got to you got to be a little bit more sneaky or give
30:21
credit. Say I I stole this from.
30:22
Credit is huge. So if you're going to take
30:25
someone's dish, give them credit.
30:27
But yeah, that's definitely happened to me many times as
30:30
well. And then it's not like this
30:32
anger that comes up. You're like, you're just like,
30:34
gosh Dang it, you know, like, why don't we?
30:36
Put me, I was. Pissed.
30:37
I was pissed and all. The ego?
30:39
Yeah, well. That's not why I was pissed.
30:40
Because there was like, well, flattery is the I was like.
30:43
That is but. I'm not on top yet.
30:45
They were on top. So when they're already getting
30:47
all the press for something that I'm getting ignored for that I
30:51
created. I would get frustrated because
30:53
I'm like, you're the A list, I'm the, I'm on the.
30:57
Come up, I'm. I'm on the come up.
31:01
You're already established. You shouldn't be stealing from
31:03
me. I should be stealing.
31:04
From you. And when someone that's above
31:06
you takes your ideas and gets credit for it and you're on the
31:11
come up, I I find that like it's a little for me.
31:15
I have something very similar that happened, but it wasn't so
31:17
much social media, but it did have to do with media because as
31:21
you know, you know, executive chefs always tell their suits
31:23
what to do and then follow sue when you do it.
31:26
And that's what's in the photo, right?
31:27
You're like, no, like, it's my like, I did that.
31:29
I made those macarons like I, you know, that I really did
31:33
that. And so I I think you get that,
31:35
like, itch. You know, the media and the
31:38
article attention, right attention.
31:41
And people view it in a way that's like, oh, you just want
31:44
to be famous? No, you just want to be
31:46
recognized for your hard work because you spend 10/12/13,
31:50
sometimes 15 hours a day in the kitchen and you just want to be,
31:54
you know, validated. Like, this is amazing.
31:57
This tastes great, beautiful. And that's where to social
32:01
media. I'll say it's helped my career.
32:05
It is skyrocketed my career not so much like oh, I've got this
32:09
many followers or got this many likes, but networking through
32:13
different companies. There's just to touch on
32:19
Valbrona. They do a calendar every year
32:21
and you post a photo, you do your hashtags and you get
32:26
chosen. You know, if you're the lucky 1
32:29
and it just so happens, not last year's magazine or last year's
32:33
calendar, excuse me, but the year before one of my dishes, I
32:37
was Miss June or whatever the month was.
32:41
And you know, since the start of that, that kind of really
32:44
propelled, you know, people liking things on social media.
32:49
You know, your name's out there. It's a very established company.
32:52
People want to follow it. They see your name then you get
32:55
likes and people recognize your work and you know from there,
32:59
even opening the restaurant after that magazines and you
33:03
know opening day. And I had this dessert by chef
33:06
Casey Judy and it's just it, it's it, it's one one thing
33:10
after the other and it propels and people are on their phone
33:14
all the time. I mean, how many times we see
33:16
cooks in the kitchen, like sneaking their phone, right,
33:18
Like everybody's on their phone. So you can't tell me people
33:21
aren't looking at social media, but.
33:23
So if you were going to give someone in pastry social media
33:28
advice, they're they're new, they want to get their brand out
33:31
there, they want to get recognized or maybe they want
33:33
even more opportunities and they want doors to open for them.
33:36
What are some tactics that you would you would tell someone to
33:40
say, hey, this is take a blank slate, start doing this on your
33:44
social media. Do not post your personal life
33:47
number one agreed. If you strictly are using this
33:52
for the benefit of, we're going to say the story, because this
33:55
is. What about their cute cats?
33:58
Honestly, I don't care. And it's there's nothing worse
34:01
than being on social media and one of your cooks following you
34:06
and then you're like, oh, let me see, like, let's just click on
34:09
this. I'm like, gosh, I did not want
34:10
to see that they did that last night.
34:12
No wonder why they're slacking at work today.
34:15
But I'll also say, too, as an executive pastry chef, I never
34:19
followed my cooks. I had a.
34:23
Rule I would never follow anyone that I might have to fire.
34:26
Oh, that's a good one. If I have, if you're in a
34:28
position where I might have to fire you, I can't follow.
34:31
You. I like that.
34:32
I like that. But as far as younger cooks post
34:36
everything post for I mean when you're taking pictures of making
34:39
bread or videos or you know, if you're part of something at work
34:44
and you want to take a photo or a video, ask the executive chef,
34:48
hey, can can I take a photo of this?
34:49
Can I post this? I'm really proud of that.
34:52
I think that goes a long way. Also, hashtags, apparently I'm
34:56
I'm not that great at hashtags, but I've noticed the ads and the
35:00
hashtags and tagging companies and you can tag certain products
35:05
through like a shopping cart or something like that.
35:07
So you know, for me, chocolate companies and chef jacket
35:13
companies, you know, I tag them all the time.
35:17
And the the ambassadorships and the partnerships you have when
35:21
you're loyal to them as a pastry cook and you advance into being
35:26
an executive, It goes a long way.
35:29
So. The loyalty behind some of these
35:31
brands. I want to talk about trends and
35:34
I'm not sure if you're where where you where you fall on
35:37
this. Are you like classic pastry I?
35:39
Still AM. Or do you like the modern, the
35:42
new? Or is it somewhere in between?
35:44
Where do you fall? Skills and approaches.
35:47
As far as the modern, like the molds and you know, certain
35:52
techniques love all of that, but classic for sure.
35:55
I'm French, Italian, classically trained.
35:59
A lot of the industry is going plant based, vegan based, you
36:03
know, just plant based chocolate.
36:05
What's the Rolls Royce of chocolate?
36:07
All right, I'm, I'm saying it too much of this podcast.
36:09
But Valrona, the Rolls Royce of chocolate?
36:13
I just say it because it's so like the texture, the taste, the
36:16
notes on it. Once you're introduced to
36:18
really, really great chocolate, it's hard to eat a Hershey's bar
36:24
or eat anything other than that. But.
36:27
It's not hard for me by the way. So there's definitely a texture
36:35
difference. You kind of like after taste,
36:38
you know, like when you're having like sugar free things
36:40
and you taste like the aspartame.
36:42
It's not that necessarily, but it is like you can you can taste
36:48
the difference. So, so you think we're moving in
36:51
general more towards vegan desserts?
36:53
Vegan desserts, plant based, like anything that's dairy free.
36:58
I've seen a lot of things start introducing like potato starch.
37:03
It's it's it's interesting a lot of molecular you know take cream
37:09
out to introduce more glucose and add more of these ingredient
37:14
like powders as far as like thickening agents and I just I
37:20
don't know that I've never not that I've never been a fan but
37:24
old school way like you don't you don't put any of that stuff
37:27
in in your work it's just yeah eggs.
37:31
Yeah, eggs, sugar, flour, butter, milk, cream.
37:34
But I it's it's been interesting to kind of see where trends are
37:38
going and I think with inflation and prices going so high you
37:46
know the cost of cream it makes sense.
37:48
So let's take out this cream to add this you know starch for as
37:52
like a like a fatty thickener and you you only have to use X
37:57
amount and the the products you know in long term longevity is
38:02
half the cost. So a lot of things cost driven,
38:06
cost driven, I. Didn't even consider that,
38:08
right? That, you know, 15 grams of this
38:12
versus 1500 grams of cream. You know what I mean?
38:15
Well. One thing that's not discussed a
38:17
lot on the savory side and is that when they did the protein
38:21
flip, which is reduce the oz or grams of protein on the plate
38:26
and and increase the amount of greens or vegetables on the
38:29
plate. Part of that was cost driven is
38:33
that the plate still looks full, but we only have three.
38:36
Checking your eyes. I'm sorry.
38:37
Checking the eyes, yeah. But the you only have a little
38:40
bit of protein, but the plate still looks full and we're still
38:41
charging the same. So it was a little bit of, it
38:44
was a little bit of smoke and mirrors there, but was it was it
38:48
branded at market is like of course it's healthy, we want you
38:50
to eat more plan forward and blah, blah, blah, sure,
38:53
certainly. But it was also financially
38:55
driven. So I'm not saying that the vegan
38:59
dessert trend is financially driven, but it at the end of the
39:03
day, people forget that the restaurant world is a business
39:05
and you got to make money and decisions are made, often based
39:09
on finances because it's not a playground.
39:11
Definitely not. I've felt that very much so
39:14
lately, and I got knocked down to my knees not too long ago.
39:19
What? Happened.
39:20
Just contracts changing and it was probably the best thing that
39:24
ever happened to me. Yeah, we'll elaborate on it.
39:27
So I think when you have a lot of mental clarity, you tend to,
39:33
I don't want to say manifest, but like the abundance of
39:38
opportunities that come to you when you're so clear minded.
39:41
I think it's different than when you're doing the whole racehorse
39:45
of running five properties. You know, and with you know
39:52
labor costs and you know just just everything such high
39:56
inflation, a lot of these restaurants that are closing it,
40:02
it makes a hit. The company, you know, I I'm
40:05
trying to like talk about this in terms where people aren't
40:08
going to be like what are you like oh, I know what she's
40:10
talking about, but to like see cooks have to transition to
40:17
certain other restaurants because one closes and you know,
40:20
one was getting paid X amount here.
40:22
So you kind of got to mirror it. At this property and this
40:26
property really can't afford, you know $25.00 an hour for a
40:31
pastry cook who works the line at night.
40:33
But I mean the the base pay now what I'm seeing in Chicago is
40:40
nothing less than 24 and that's really hard to budget with.
40:46
So now we're seeing a trend going into summer where we're
40:50
slower. We come off the holidays, You
40:52
know, Mother's Day is coming up, the kids will, you know, kids
40:56
will be out of school. You don't have as busy of a
41:00
restaurant as you did over the winter months and you got to cut
41:04
labor, right. So who's working those shifts?
41:07
Hello. Me, you know pastry chef.
41:10
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.
41:10
So it's it's been an interesting flop and to see it all happen,
41:15
but I am making the the lesser half of the amount of money that
41:24
I used to make and I'm the happiest I've ever been.
41:29
Interesting. So I I did a podcast recently
41:32
where I talked about how most people's happiness at work is
41:37
not really financially driven like people think.
41:39
It usually has to do with, you know, the the other needs being
41:42
met. Anyway, people need to go listen
41:45
to that podcast on why people leave jobs for if they want to
41:49
hear more about that. But I do want to ask you because
41:52
you kind of touched on it a little bit and we touched on it
41:55
a little bit at the beginning is one of the biggest things that I
41:58
get questions on is how do you deal with burnout.
42:01
Now I view burnout differently, so I don't want to give my
42:05
thoughts because I don't want to skew what you're going to say.
42:07
So how do you personally deal with burnout, and how do you
42:11
view burnout specifically in the culinary world?
42:15
OK, we could talk about this in two ways.
42:16
Do you want me to talk about it as a young cook or do you want
42:19
me to talk about it? No, I let me just.
42:21
I think the young cooks are the ones asking.
42:23
OK, self-care. Eat breakfast.
42:28
You know, drink your water, Exercise.
42:33
I get that it's fun going out, and I get that it's fun.
42:37
You know, you're in those young stages, drinking, going out in
42:42
five, 6-7 years. It doesn't matter.
42:45
It does not matter. I find fulfillment truthfully
42:50
and working out, eating healthy and taking care of myself,
42:55
whether that's I'm really into podcasts.
42:57
And it's funny, like we're sitting here on a podcast, but I
42:59
find enjoyment in listening to podcasts and audiobooks.
43:03
You know, when I was a younger cook, I used to have a notebook
43:08
and I used to write down places I'd want to go, whether it would
43:11
be eating, travelling, you know, just different goals.
43:16
I would even like salaried amounts, right?
43:18
Like I would write numbers down and people that I wanted to work
43:22
for or cities that I wanted to live in.
43:24
And I really set myself up with some goals.
43:28
And I think that's why I was so successful being an executive
43:30
pastry chef AT23I. I took care of my mind, body and
43:35
soul and that's where I think some people get too caught up in
43:39
this hospitality facade. Like chef life.
43:45
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
43:48
And you don't have to like you don't have to be.
43:50
And that's where, you know there's a, there's a line that
43:52
gets crossed sometimes with, you know, Co workers like you work
43:57
with certain chefs after the shift, you go out, you drink,
44:01
you come back to work the next day and it's the same cycle.
44:04
But I I do find fulfillment and taking care of myself.
44:07
I'm huge into working out. I always say body by berries,
44:11
'cause I am a Berries boot camp girl.
44:13
I go every day. I have my routine 7:25 in the
44:17
morning. Definitely sleep too.
44:20
I know a lot of people are like, I just need like four or six
44:23
hours of sleep, Trust me. When I was a young cook in
44:27
Chicago, starting out my career, I would go out.
44:29
But This is why I'm giving you this advice, 'cause I already
44:32
did it. I know where.
44:33
I know. I know way too, way too much
44:35
about that lifestyle you have. A routine like for sleep.
44:38
Now I so I juggle A10 hour day. Do you?
44:43
Choose the Aura Ring. I don't.
44:45
I wear my Apple Watch. I'm crazy.
44:48
It's like a 14 hour stand goal, 1000 calorie move day and you
44:54
know, an hour of exercise and I am crazy about closing those
44:58
rings some. There's something about it like,
45:00
I'll never forget when we are opening lay select.
45:04
I was in the stairwell running up and down like, not that we
45:07
had like free time, but there's a lull sometimes in between
45:11
service and, of course, pastries, the last thing people
45:14
eat. So at 5:00 when the restaurant
45:15
opens, it's slow. I like I'd be up and down the
45:19
stairwells, you know, like doing my steps just to make sure I hit
45:22
my goals on my watch, 'cause that's how crazy I'm with being
45:26
a health nut. But at the same time, too, it's
45:28
really hard to juggle because what do you do every day?
45:30
You you eat desserts, you, you know, I'm tasting sugar all day
45:34
long, and I've gotten to a point now that I it's like almost like
45:38
a sommelier. I just taste it.
45:40
Taste it enough where I'm not consuming it if I need.
45:44
If I take take a piece of bread, I sometimes I spit it out like I
45:48
I don't. I know it sounds crazy.
45:50
I've been labeled to before like, oh, she's got an eating
45:53
disorder. No, I just don't want to consume
45:56
bread and and, you know, chocolate this and, you know,
46:01
ice cream that. And, you know, it's all the bad
46:03
things, right? Like dairy, gluten, sugar, it's
46:07
never ending. So definitely take care of
46:09
yourself. But now, I mean, I remember when
46:12
I was in New York, I would wake up at 4:00 in the morning to get
46:16
on a 530 train, be on the train, walk into work at, you know,
46:21
6:00 AM And I never saw the sun. Yeah.
46:26
Saw the sun and. The little things you take for
46:28
granted, take that for granted, because I would get.
46:31
Depressed when I would go in and it's dark and I'd leave when
46:33
it's dark. And I used to hate them.
46:35
Exactly. All you saw were the.
46:36
Four walls of the basement, you know prep area and then services
46:40
upstairs and you never saw the sun.
46:43
Yeah. Not seeing the sun and.
46:44
And and again, sometimes working in a basement and you you got
46:47
those fluorescent lights in the kitchen like just just get
46:50
outside, look at the sun and I think too.
46:53
Stare into the sun. Look at the.
46:55
Eclipse. Oh yeah, that just.
46:57
Happened and it. I think too, what's really
46:59
important to touch on is therapy as well.
47:02
I don't think people really value their mental health, to be
47:08
honest. And I know chefs have a little
47:10
bit of a bad rap for this too, but it's never too late to ask
47:15
for help. I know I've had tons of pastry
47:16
cooks who have, you know, not, I don't want to say suffer, but
47:19
who have touched on this topic and said, hey, you know, I'm,
47:22
I'm, I'm depressed, say, you know certain situations they'd
47:26
share and at that point everyone's a human.
47:29
And when I would interview people for positions, I'd say
47:31
first and foremost before you walk into these doors, you're a
47:34
human. So if if you need help, if you
47:37
need, you know time off. Let me know.
47:41
Let me know, You know, speak up. So I think that's also very
47:45
important too is dealing with emotions, health healthfully.
47:50
If that's a word that's huge journaling.
47:54
I mean I know some people aren't into that, but I've just in in
47:57
my position, I've noticed once you're clear minded at work, a
48:04
lot of success happens. Yeah, I'm a I'm a big believer
48:07
in. Journaling I journal every day.
48:08
I write a lot. I have a question if.
48:14
The show's called Chef's PSA Every.
48:16
Day I put a stupid chef's PSA's. Some of them are not stupid.
48:18
Some of them are good, but if you had a pastry chef's PSA,
48:23
something that you would want to make sure that everybody in the
48:28
pastry world heard and you had it on the Billboard, what would
48:31
your pastry chef's PSA be? Have your cake and eat it too.
48:35
Expand upon that. I am such a believer in the.
48:39
Word yes. But you also have to understand
48:42
when to say yes and when to say no.
48:45
And whatever you want to obtain in this lifetime and the time
48:50
span of your career, do it. What?
48:53
Whatever you have to do to get there, whether it's moved to a
48:56
different city, work for a certain chef.
48:58
I mean, there's definitely steps you need to take to be at a
49:02
certain level. Do it.
49:06
You know, As silly as it sounds, just do it.
49:11
Like this is not a. Nike ad that you know but it's
49:15
it's so easy. Like it's just so complicated,
49:17
but it's so easy. And studying this art and this
49:22
craft. Patience.
49:24
I think patience is huge. Throughout my entire career,
49:27
I've always had pastry executive pastry chefs while with a
49:30
patriot cook like, patience, like.
49:33
Take your time. I used to.
49:35
Think you know? As an employee coming up working
49:39
under chefs or working in groups or whatever, the loyalty aspect
49:42
of you need to be here for quite some time the two year like.
49:47
Minimum. Yeah, whatever.
49:48
I don't know if I agree with that.
49:49
Anymore, because because now my role is different.
49:54
I'm not. I'm no longer giving advice as
49:58
the chef where it's my best interest that you stay.
50:00
Because now most of the people that I work with on Chef's PSA
50:03
are people that want my advice. So I'm not going to steer them
50:06
wrong. And having been on both ends, I
50:08
know that like, hey, they're dangling a carrot.
50:10
They're they're kicking the can down the road.
50:12
They're never going to promote you, so sometimes you just have
50:14
to create action. So inaction sometimes is the
50:19
absolute worst thing for a cook because inaction could become
50:22
paralyzing because you sit there and you wait.
50:25
I'll wait another year. They said I'm not ready.
50:27
Then you wait another year. You're still not ready.
50:28
And before you know it, you've wasted five years there, when in
50:31
year one you could have just gone to that.
50:33
It's like relationships, right? You.
50:35
Know I mean because I mean it is.
50:38
Yeah, you see those people more. Than your own family.
50:42
You know I can count on every birthday, every holiday I was
50:47
not home and I think that's where this work life balance
50:50
comes in. And and at a certain point after
50:53
you've done your duties as far as like working your ranks up,
50:57
you want to be home with your family on a holiday and and you
51:01
deserve that and that's why I say you can have your cake and
51:03
eat it too. I'm a prime example of that.
51:05
I put in the work after 10 years of straight hustle, from Dallas
51:11
to New York to Chicago, you can have it all.
51:15
You just have to. Realize how to make it happen.
51:18
One of the things that I I do say on.
51:20
Burnout because I I don't really like talking about it too much
51:23
because I'm not a big burnout believer.
51:25
I either think I'm not either. I'm very competitive, so.
51:28
The burnout thing, it's it's it's like I don't get burned
51:30
out, I. You push yourself a little
51:32
harder still. Work seven days a week I work.
51:34
Seven days a week and I'm retired and I work seven days a
51:38
week. Still 10?
51:40
Well, yeah. I'm retired from being a chef,
51:42
but the reason I. Bring that up is because my
51:44
thought on burnout is you're dealing with two extremes.
51:48
If it's too slow, you get bored. Yes, and so you're you.
51:51
Like, I don't like my job. It's boring.
51:52
I'm not learning right, but it's just slow.
51:55
And if it's too busy, it gets hard.
51:57
And when it's hard, I'm burned out.
52:00
I'm not getting any days off. And so you're what most cooks
52:04
want is they just kind of want this comfortable middle like the
52:07
warm bed. It's hard to find them
52:09
comfortable metal you know about. 45 hours a week.
52:12
Like you want that comfortable middle once you go over or a
52:16
little under and it's like you get burned out.
52:18
But I always say it's like if you take a kid who enjoys doing
52:21
something like a video game or whatever, like you have to peel
52:24
them out of their room like at some point, right, Have to like
52:28
their. Their parents have to say.
52:30
Stop playing games. We can't get because they love
52:32
it. They they love what they're
52:34
doing. And when you love what you're
52:36
doing as a chef, I know chefs, I I've been that chef.
52:38
It's like you cannot Get Me Out of the kitchen.
52:40
It's not because I'm overworking myself.
52:43
It's because I love it. I'm passionate and I just, I'm
52:45
just going to say passion. It's the.
52:46
Passion behind the creativity, the art of it, and honestly,
52:52
knowing that you're sharing that with somebody, it's really.
52:57
Special, right? And so.
53:00
Just to close my thought on what I was saying is I think when
53:04
people say that they're burned out, I always push back a little
53:07
bit. Say are you burned out or do you
53:08
just not like your job? Like are you really burned out
53:12
or do you just not like the job? And so I think that is usually
53:17
arbitrary number, but I would say it's probably like 80% of
53:19
the time you just don't like your job.
53:20
I always say you are a product of your.
53:22
Environment. And at that point if it doesn't
53:26
bring you happiness and it's it's a constant, like I've
53:30
noticed when you bitch and complain and especially when you
53:33
go home and you bitch and complain about your work, what
53:37
relationship you have at home. I mean it suffers usually 99% of
53:41
the time and it's like you are not happy at work.
53:43
You are not the person I know. Find a job you find a new Find a
53:48
new job to the stove you prefer to.
53:50
Leave. Yeah.
53:51
And at this point, I think we're.
53:52
In 2024, the respect level it's, I mean.
53:57
People want. Respect more than the paycheck.
54:01
Sometimes I feel like I've noticed a lot of cooks do bounce
54:05
around and you're touching on resumes and there's a lot of
54:08
young cooks to a certain point it's they just want the respect
54:10
of like I'll take $20.00 an hour but you know this chef over here
54:14
you know they said but, but, but to me, and this is what
54:16
happened, it was it was a bad scenario where it's like your
54:18
ego got to you. You use the word burnt out.
54:21
Let's say they were burnt out and they're looking for a new
54:23
job because they felt disrespected.
54:26
So again, product of your own environment and I think this
54:29
resume thing is going back to the social media.
54:33
Yeah, you get resumes sent to you, you look at resumes, but
54:37
it's usually about the stash. What do you mean?
54:40
Oh, oh, so. When they're applying, yeah.
54:42
Yeah, yeah, like you. You'll look at.
54:43
Their resume and you'll be like, OK, cool.
54:45
And then you'll invite them in. And sometimes the people with,
54:50
you know, the lesser part of the exciting part on your resume end
54:54
up being the best hires and they're so eager.
54:56
I I do love also working with culinary schools.
55:01
I've, I've done a lot with internship programs as well.
55:04
And when you get pastry students freshly out of school, it's like
55:08
they're sponge like they just want to learn.
55:10
And that's really important when you're in that leadership role
55:13
to feed into it because we really are.
55:17
Yeah, it's our most important job.
55:21
If so, I I want to. I have two last questions for
55:24
you. Yes, first.
55:26
One is. Sometimes the relationship
55:29
between the head chef, the chef's cuisine executive chef,
55:32
and the pastry chef, they don't always see eye to eye.
55:35
If you could talk to executive chefs and chefs to cuisines that
55:39
are listening right now, what's one thing that they could do to
55:42
make that relationship better? Or maybe something that they
55:44
don't understand about the mind of a pastry chef.
55:48
It's very. Calculated.
55:50
To the point where you know what's on the plate, it's, it's
55:55
crammed out. You know, like it's it's it's
55:58
science just as much it is as it is art.
56:02
Same thing on the savory side. So that's why you kind of have
56:04
that conflicting, you know, back and forth.
56:06
But at the same time, it takes way longer to play the dessert
56:10
sometimes than it does in a savory aspect.
56:14
And when you are working with savory chefs, certain
56:17
ingredients are like the balance of acid to salt and you know the
56:21
ratios of certain things in your taste buds.
56:24
I've noticed the bigger the ego, the stronger the statement, if
56:32
that makes any sense. You know I'm we're we're all
56:36
like collectively on the same team.
56:38
So what I like to always think about and I guess what I want to
56:41
say is I'm just as much so on your team as you're on my team.
56:45
So the more that we're on the same page, the better the
56:49
outcome. And I've really never had too
56:52
many conflicting things with the CDC 'cause I really do love as a
56:55
pastry chef, I will always go to the CDC or the executive chef or
56:59
whoever, whoever I'm working with daily and really get their
57:03
interest of what I'm doing. You know, share, hey, taste
57:07
this. What do you think of that?
57:08
And kind of bounce ideas off of each other?
57:11
And that's where it's kind of like just be open, be open to
57:14
like what I'm saying. Kind of trust me a little bit,
57:17
too. I've noticed when you explain
57:19
certain desserts to executive chefs, they just kind of look at
57:22
you funny and it's like give you this look and you're like, no,
57:24
no, no, like, trust me, trust me, I I know what I'm doing.
57:28
So it's a little mixture of that.
57:31
So last question. What is the biggest?
57:37
Misconception that people have about becoming a pastry chef and
57:41
what I what I'm trying to say is like I want to be a pastry chef
57:47
because I've been. Watching a lot of TV I.
57:48
Watched. I don't know what the shows are.
57:50
Ace of Cakes. I don't even know if that's
57:51
still a show. But.
57:52
But I want to be a pastry chef. I know nothing about the
57:54
industry, but I'm going to go to culinary school.
57:56
I'm going to be a pastry chef. And then you get into the real
57:58
world. What's the biggest
58:00
misconception? The shocking moment.
58:02
Then, like when reality just smacks you in the face and say,
58:05
oh, it's not Ace of Cakes. Yeah, and it's nothing.
58:08
What you see on TVTV shows you little snapshots of the best
58:13
moment of of what we do as a pastry chef between, you know,
58:18
start to finish. But at the same time, too, it's
58:24
like culinary school. Everybody glamorizes it, right?
58:26
Like I'm going to culinary school.
58:29
I am paying off those loans. Like still to this day, you
58:33
know, it was, it's a huge, you know, hole in your pocket.
58:38
Go go. 1st. Walk into a restaurant and ask
58:41
Testage and even see if you like it, because I think people like
58:47
to cook at home. It's like vacationing, right?
58:49
Like, oh, I'd love to go to, you know, we'll just stay Austin
58:52
because we're in Austin. I love to visit Austin.
58:54
Living in Austin and visiting Austin are two different things.
58:59
Just like you said, like, you know the idea of I want to be a
59:02
pastry chef, great. But realize it's not an
59:07
overnight job. Like you're not just going to
59:09
wake up tomorrow and be Giada De Laurentiis, right?
59:13
So in that sense, I can relate to that because the the the way
59:18
I became a pastry chef was I went from professional dancer to
59:22
going to Community College not knowing what I wanted to do.
59:26
And at that point, my mom said, you know the cliche, well, you
59:29
know, do something that you don't have to feel like you're
59:31
working every day in your life. You know what parents always
59:34
tell you. And funny enough, funny enough,
59:37
I was like, I want to be the like, I want to be the the GIADA
59:41
of like the pastry world. And it's it's not glamorous.
59:47
You know, like I touched earlier, you're you're missing
59:50
birthdays and holidays and you really sacrifice your time.
59:55
And you know, like we were talking about earlier, your
59:57
health. I mean there's so many things
59:58
that just go into this day. It's not like 9 to 5 you sit at
1:00:01
a desk. Oh, no.
1:00:02
I when that. Last person you know.
1:00:06
Finishes their plate on their meal you can close your station
1:00:09
down. Pastry is always the last
1:00:10
station to close. You know you're there till
1:00:13
twelve 1:00 AM It's it's it's not glamorous by any means.
1:00:17
I mean, the end product is very tasty but it's rewarding.
1:00:22
So if if this is something you really want to do, walk into a
1:00:26
kitchen, message a chef, e-mail them, social media, DM them,
1:00:30
whatever, Work from for a day and see if you like it before
1:00:33
you apply to culinary school and have hundreds of thousands of
1:00:37
dollars in debt. OK, so this was fun.
1:00:39
We got to do it again. Always.
1:00:42
It's so. Good to see you.
1:00:44
Where Where can people find you? Follow.
1:00:45
You learn more and and and follow you on your journey.
1:00:48
Basically, Yeah. So I am a big.
1:00:50
Poster on Instagram. A lot of my work is on at CN.
1:00:56
Doody DOODY just like Howdy doody with an under score at the
1:01:00
end of it. So at CNDOODY under score with
1:01:04
that Y and yeah, I mean, but you know through social media, I'm
1:01:12
just a click away. All right.
1:01:13
Thank you so much. Great seeing you.
1:01:15
You too. Thank.
1:01:17
You all very much if you. Want to support the show?
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1:01:52
Hit the porno music, no spawn draped in the.
1:01:55
Kitchen. Mix it.
1:01:56
Drop the chef dollars. No fiction stirring up the BT.
1:01:59
Enough the session. Listen close.
1:02:02
Classes Incest.