Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Will Divorce and Moving Between Two Homes Damage Your Kids?

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Will Divorce and Moving Between Two Homes Damage Your Kids? · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim, and Liberate, the podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their lives.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: In thoughtful, deeply supportive teams with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Alife and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the World Tree people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And today I'm super excited to welcome an extra special guest to the podcast in my daughter Eva.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome Eva to the podcast.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit weird.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of conversations and talk a lot, but not on mic, so not on mic, so not recording.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to start by just sharing a little bit about yourself with the listeners?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure a few of you would know.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am Mum's or Sally Ann's oldest child.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 21.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm at uni at the moment, I'm studying psychology, which I love.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I've just come back from a big overseas trip, so I'm kind of adjusting back into the normal Melbourne life, which has been a bit weird, but kind of nice to be home and back in the sun.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not back in the sunshine, but at least Melbourne's sunny at the moment, so makes it a little bit easier to be back home.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: And planning the next big adventure already, yeah?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's been two weeks and I'm already looking at flight centre, so that's okay.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so today I'm gonna ask Eva some questions about um our family and Mike and my divorce.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she has vetoed the questions but hasn't actually knocked any out, which is good.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, Eva, let's kick off.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to ask you what's your earliest memory of me and dad as divorced parents, or what's your earliest memory of our divorce?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I guess what I'm really asking is, do you remember being told or what we shared with you?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of hard to answer because divorce has always been the norm.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like to give context, I was five and I think I from what I remember I almost just started prep and then you I think well you were set and then you separated.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Divorce is never you like the term divorce was never used until much much later, but I have a really vivid memory of standing in our old kitchen, so this is in them in the house that my dad still lives in, although it doesn't look like this anymore.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um standing in the old kitchen right near the fridge, and you and dad were both standing there, but and but it was you that said so dad and I aren't gonna live together anymore.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm pretty sure we burst into tears because we didn't really know what was going on, but I just have this really vivid memory of that, and I also have kind of a a vivid memory of going to the um going to buy bedding for dad's new apartment in the because he lived in a street opposite a big like bedding store.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so remember we I think we walked over, got what we wanted, and I think I'm pretty sure you were there.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was absolutely there.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that it was like kind of a family thing.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a family thing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: We did it together.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like my because divorce has always been the norm, particularly the entire way through school, I think because it kind of started in my first year of school, my routine has always always been based around you guys not living together and being separated.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of normal and it doesn't or it's completely normal.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it don't like other than those two memories, I really don't remember much from the early days.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's interesting.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I always think too that even before Dad and I lived separately, he was gone for so much of the time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in that in the lead up at least the twelve, eighteen months before we separated.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of people.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just normal for it to be me, mum, and Elliot, but it was less normal to be just me, Elliot, and dad, which I think that was the adjustment.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was fine to be at mum's, but then it was stranger to be at dad's.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Also, I think because in the early days you were still in the same house, whereas it was dad that moved out, and so then we would we were living further away, further away from school, in an like it wasn't even a house, it was an apartment with the tiniest little courtyard.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that was the weirdest adjustment from the early days.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um thank you for sharing that.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Next thing I wanted to ask you, um what do you think the best thing about having divorced parents has been for you?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess the flip side of that is what's the worst thing?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably not really a best thing because it's not really like a fantastic scenario, but in saying that because it's my norm, I don't know it, I really don't know any better.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like the cheesy thing to say is the best thing is that both of you are actually happy and you're not compromising like your morals or your wants to just stay in a relationship because of because of me and Elliot, and I think I appreciate that, but that's also a really cheesy answer.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So probably the best thing is the fact that we'd get like two two holidays a year, and because travel's been such a big part of our life for so long, especially with dad overseas, we'd usually get an overseas holiday with dad, and often an overseas holiday with mum, and then usually a summer holiday with you.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we'd like probably got more holidays than we would if you were still together.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's probably the best part.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty good thing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's the worst or hardest thing?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Packing bags, like the two two houses, packing bags, living out not really living out of a suitcase because we to and to dad's credit, we have double of everything.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember I was 15 and I had two hair straighteners.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had two, like I'd have one was secondhand.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but still, you know, it's you know, two hair straighteners, two toothbrushes, two hair like two of everything, so it made it much easier.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the hardest thing is packing, and then oh I've forgotten my I've forgotten this.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I have production, I need this.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've I need these shoes, I have a party, I need this.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like having that and having it split between two houses is definitely the hardest.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or I think as I got older, sometimes being the messenger between mum and dad.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even though we tried really hard not to do it to do it.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: To their credit, they tried really, really hard, but and it's only recently.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I reckon I was probably like 18, 19.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also to mum and dad's credit, as soon as I said, nah, I'm not doing this, I'm not being your messenger.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are grown up, so you can actually talk between yourselves, they stopped.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's definitely the worst, either packing or yeah, being the messenger.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think that messenger thing came as you matured and we were having more adult convers both of us were having more adult conversations with you.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you you sort of had stepped into the realm of adult, whereas you're not really an adult when it comes to your parents.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're still the kid.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a that was a learning for both of us as your parents.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think we did well and perhaps still do well as divorced parents?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest thing that you do well, um, and you've done it since we were little, is you've never talked shit.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Am I allowed to swear on this?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: You are absolutely allowed to swear.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've never talked shit about each other in front of me and Elliot.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: The only times is as we've gotten older and say, I had a fight with dad, or I had a fight with you, and I'd be venting, and either you'd say, I might you might say about dad, well, it's just always he's always been like that.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's annoying, it's frustrating, but this is how to deal with it, or vice versa.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Dad would say the same about he'd be like, you and your mum butt heads because you're stubborn and you're opinionated, and yada yada.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, yes, that's true.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but really, no matter what was happening personally for the two of you, or what argument you'd have, you'd had, you would never talk badly about the other one in front of me and Elliot, and I'm really grateful for that.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it meant that we could be kids and we could have that childlike view of our parents that you could both kind of do no wrong.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even though no matter what, I mean as we got older we realised that was not the case.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but no matter what happened, you and Dad were very, very civil and amicable, which also meant that um you would always put a brave face on and we could always have school events or birthdays or Christmas, whatever it was, you were always there showing up in the same room together, and it was never awkward or weird for us to have that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, even on the weekend, it's it was just the grand final this last weekend, and I had all my mates over at Dad's house, and then mum was there, and that wasn't weird, it wasn't awkward, it's just normal, and all my friends know it's normal as well, which is so lovely.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think my friends because of that, my friends have the same relationship.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: They can walk into dad's house or they can walk into mum's house, and it doesn't matter, um, which I'm very, very grateful and very lucky for.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thanks for that, and thanks for sharing that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, Grandfather Day was quite fun.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was so fun and silly, and so fun.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I do I also enjoy sharing space with you and your friends in your dad's house, in your house with dad, and your home with dad.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do really appreciate that.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And let's cla let's clarify and qualify that.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's not possible for every separated divorced family.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and some of it comes down to Mike being very calm and very considered and very level-headed and the opposite of mine and mum's personalities.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we are lucky that um, yeah, that we we can do that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's it has taken work and can be.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's taken a commitment from mum and dad to, like I said, no matter what was happening for them, they could put put a brave face on and go and then just smile and deal with it, no matter how much they wanted to rip each other's heads off.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: They always got through every birthday, Christmas, whatever, and I'm very grateful for it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so leading on from that, looking back, what do you think we could have done better or differently?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, as a a co-parenting team or perhaps as individuals, however you want to answer that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's hard because I often say that I got the best of a bad situation, like mum and dad are kind of the best of the bad bunch in terms of divorced parents, which sounds a bit brutal, but it's kind of true.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think really what they could could have done better.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Going back to before the messenger thing, like that really took a toll on me, and it really did stressed me out as the wrong word, but it just really yeah, took a toll on me and made me kind of deeply unhappy to have to say, Mum says this, dad says this, yada yada, when I was, yeah, 18, 19, probably even 20, and going through my own things, dealing with my own stuff.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't need it sounds selfish, but I didn't need them in my head telling me, tell this to your father, tell this to your mother, yada yada.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, not selfish at all.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But as soon as I kind of brought it up, it all stopped, which is also a credit to mum and dad not to toot their own horns.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: You can toot.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the other thing that could have been done better, but I think we'll talk about it a bit later, because it's more of an individual thing, is introducing partners.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's been over the last 10 years, probably 10, 11, 12 years.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, and both mum and dad have done things well and done things pretty poorly.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think that's probably down track.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna ask you that question in a little while.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, what if anything would you change about our family?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is so hard because so many people in my life have asked me this over the almost what 15 years that you've been divorced.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's really hard because it it is so normal, and our family, when I think about our family, I don't think of mum and dad together.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: My family includes both mum and dad, but there's kind of in my mind that w I have kind of three versions of my family.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's me and Elliot and mum and dad.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But under that, there's me, mum and elliot, and there's me, Elliot, and dad.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's kind of we're one big family, but there's also two separate little families or little teams almost.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and because of that, I probably wouldn't change it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously it would definitely have been easier if you'd never got divorced.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would have had one house, one kind of whole had a beach house, it would have been ideal.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one kind of whole unit.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have had to lug my stuff between two places, but I don't know if I would change anything because it's kind of made our family who we are.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, it's kind of made our family who we are, and I think this also goes to kind of my me and kind of my personality.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything kind of happens for a reason, and I think our family's meant to be this way.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously that also goes without saying like we haven't had a particularly traumatic or um there's been no particularly yucky experiences, so I think we're pretty lucky for that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I really wouldn't change anything, I think.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the flow and effect to particularly the Hartnell extended family was minimal because dad was still invited to Christmas and birthdays and yeah, like it's my cousin's 21st in a couple of weeks, and mum actually can't go.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's dad that's gonna go.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, my dad says like dad went to the footy with mum's dad the other week.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And brothers, and brothers, the whole crew.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was a whole crew without mum, but dad was there, so yeah, there's really not been any kind of dramatic flow-on effect or rift or separation in with anybody except for mum and dad themselves, which I think it's pretty lucky.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I've spoken to about it.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've spoken to this on other podcast episodes, and it is a testament to both Mike and particularly my parents and and siblings who've continued an independent relationship with Mike.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes frustratingly for me, but um mostly it's been beneficial.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, back to you, Eva.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um you mentioned that you know packing bags and moving between houses was one of those hard things.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think helped you as a small kid moving between your home with dad and your home with me?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think as a really little kid, I I actually don't remember packing bags as a really little kid.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: I so I have a feeling it was probably you that did it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that probably helped.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just got to kind of go off to school, dad would have my stuff, and then he picked me up from school, and it was just kind of normal.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing I think that did help in terms of like separation was mum wrote this down.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my god, yes, it was we had smellums, which no one is gonna know what these are, but it was effectively mum would spray her perfume onto probably our stuffed animals, but also it would be like a scarf or a little like piece of blanket or something, something soft and tactile.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Both me and Elliot are very tactile, particularly very tactile, sensitive people, um, especially as little little kids, and so I would like sleep with like mum's perfume.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she has a really distinctive perfume.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody knows the smell of their mum, but you have a really distinctive perfume, and she's worn the same perfume for 15 years or something.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that really helped, but also routine, like consistency and routine, and I'm a very routines-based person, like all my friends laugh at how routines-based on them.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am 21 and I go to bed at the same time and wake up at the same time, pretty much Monday to Friday, um, because it helps me, and so I think having that consistency.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Dad would always pick us up from school on the same day, we'd always go back to mum's on the same day.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, if events or things were happening or dad had to change because he was working, things would happen.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to say, I was gonna say it's 90%, but I'm gonna say 75% of the time was consistent and routine, and I think that helped.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what about as a teenager?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Was what was good or bad about having two homes?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you probably mentioned some of it with having to drag stuff back and forth, but yeah, but in terms of having to drag stuff back and forth, we were lucky that dad would pick our stuff up from mum's and then drop it back to her.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So all I had to do was pack.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was never one of those kids that had to drag all my stuff to school, leave it in the locker bay, and then drag it out to dad's car, have him pick us up from school.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was always just there, and we didn't have to do it or think about it, which made it so much easier, particularly as we got older, and I'd have we'd have a sports bag and backpack of clothes and shoes and whatever else I needed for the weekend, and there'd be 75 different bags, and I just don't think I would have managed taking that all to school.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we did do that on purpose.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: That was a conscious decision that we made that we made.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think it saved it saved a lot of stress and hassle and grief.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: They did still forget things regularly, and I was a lot better than Elliot.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: I used to have a list.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: We used to get halfway to Dad's house after school and he'd be like, oh, I forgot this, and we'd drive all the way back and get it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the other thing that was a good was really good was knowing that we would have time to go to dad's house probably saved our relationship.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: 100% Particularly when I was like probably from the age of 12 to 17, we fought like cat and dog.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like we would just fight and fight and fight about God knows what.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Anything and everything that we just decided not to agree on that day, from what I was gonna have for breakfast to what time you were coming home from the party, or what time mum was gonna pick me up because no, midnight is far too early.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think it saved our sanity knowing that I'd go to dad's because not like normally, well, I say normally, I'm gonna guess normally if two parents are together, there'll be time where one parent can go, I'm gonna take this child and we're gonna do this, or I'm gonna give you space, but we didn't have that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: We were together all the time.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: It pretty much except for when I was at school or out, if I was at home, we were together and there was no other adult to kind of save our relationship or save us or say stop it, like you've gotta stop fighting, just separate.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of have to self-regulate, and we weren't particularly good at doing it as much as you tried, you tried your absolute best.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But um Yeah, and I think the the length of time that we had would be a three weeks non-stop.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, constant three weeks at least, um, without another adult in the space to help diffuse or yeah.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was really difficult.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we both breathed out when Dan landed from Hong Kong and would was on his way to pick you up.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was exhalation and relief.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just before we dive into the second part of this episode, if there are things that are resonating with you in this particular episode, this is your invitation.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to jump on a free intro call with you to chat through coaching options.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's always a link in the bio to book a call directly in my calendar.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I'd love for you to do is to share this episode with anybody you know who might be supported by it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Next question.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: You've sort of answered this a little bit, but I wouldn't mind asking it still.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Did you ever feel stuck in the middle or forced to make choices between the two of us as your parents?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is a really interesting question because I think most of the time when kids talk about being stuck in the middle, they talk about maybe having to pick a side or pick a parent or choose where to live or things like that, which I never had to do, which I'm really grateful for, um, because I think it would be completely fucked to be quite frank.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just really quite traumatic.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but sometimes, particularly as as I've gotten older and I kind of have an independent life, I've sometimes felt a bit torn or kind of stuck in the middle, and feeling a bit guilty that I don't spend enough time with either you or dad, as you're both.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: kind of home alone and like don't really this makes you sound like really lonely people but you're not but you're both kind of you're both single don't have a really long like don't have a long term partner at the moment and kind of I feel sometimes I feel bad leaving and going see I'll see you in five days leaving you or dad kind of home alone although I know and both of you have said this to me that you don't care that that's what I'm meant to do I meant to go off but sometimes I do just feel a little bit guilty but that's just kind of a me thing I don't think that's it's not a mum and dad thing it's more of a my empath coming out I think and it's definitely not an Elliot thing and we you know we both have raised you to be adventurous and to get out there and live your life and do your thing.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's actually a beautiful thing to watch.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do love hanging around with you when you're home but I I yeah I'm not lonely because you're not here.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay here's the big one Dad and I have both at different times introduced new partners and I wanted you to share openly brutally um about how that was for you what we could have done differently to make it easier or better for you.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: So interestingly mum and dad have both had two dramatically different dating lives I think over the last 10 to 15 years.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Mum's laughing because she knows it's true.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably vaguely common knowledge that dad has dated a little bit more.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not on the podcast not on the podcast but dad has also given me permission to share my story.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I did talk to him about this before we recorded um but he has definitely dated quite a bit more than what mum has um he's had a few long-term partners over the years but mostly just kind of dated semi-casually um and has introduced multiple different partners to me and Elliot over the years.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think because there's been multiple and sometimes in quite quick succession of each other um that we don't take it too seriously anymore which like and we we can have dad included we can have a bit of a joke about it but um and also there is nothing wrong with casually dating people absolutely nothing wrong with that I'm not here to get off my moral high horse but I really recommend that you just just don't introduce someone to your kids before it's a genuine serious relationship because then you'll just end up having jokes about the amount of people that you've dated and it's just probably not the best way to go about it or the healthiest.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then get nicknames like number 857.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so if you want to avoid that it in all honesty it hasn't created that much trauma for me and Elliot because it's never been that serious and we've also been able to say to dad no this is ridiculous no I'm not going to dinner with this person um give us a few weeks have a few more months next time maybe we'll um reevaluate and I appreciate that dad actually has he can step back and say yep okay you're not comfortable with that fine by me he can go do his thing and we can step back we don't have to be involved in that part of his life um but just yeah just don't introduce someone to your kids unless it's genuine serious and you see a long term future with them yeah we'll go we'll just leave it at that I think um flip to me flip to mum mum and I have spoken about this um at length particularly over the last two years I'd say um and it wasn't necessarily introducing your partner but um it was introducing his kids that were way too fast so I don't know do people so Adam has three kids that are significantly older than Elliot and I so would be I reckon seven five probably seven five and three years older than me um but when you're 10 or 11 and then you've got there's it would have I would have been 10 Elliot eight and then his kids would have been 17, 15 and 13 that's a massive age gap and we went from pretty much meeting them to what looking back I don't know the actual timeline and I don't think I've ever really asked mum but it felt like we pretty much met them and then a few weeks later they were living in the house which was just far too quick um and there were external circumstances happening and all of that sort of jazz but it was just far too quick and I wasn't ready for it.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Elliot I don't think Elliot was ready for it.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think his kids were ready for it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was a no I was ready for it no one had a good experience um it was pretty awful for a few years and it was just pretty yucky and I just don't think and like mum and I have talked about this there is kind of a dating timeline in the adult world but kids have no concept of that there is like a child has no idea that you meet go on a couple of dates see how you're going then maybe you're official and then you kind of go from there.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Kids have no idea of that um so just take it really really slow because it was just far too fast and I think that's the biggest thing that mum did and looking back the biggest thing that caused probably the biggest angst in the family was that um introduction.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yep 100% and if I could do it differently if I could go back and do it differently I absolutely would and Eva's right in that the timeline for the kids was seemed so fast um whereas for the adults there was a whole lot of backstory that they had not been privy to.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So while you know on the one hand we've got Mike who's in trying to introduce partners at a rate of not we'll make sure we'll make sure that you know that he's dating someone and you know I kept I kept a significant portion of that private until I knew it was serious and then it felt too fast.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: So for me it was that bit like keeping it private until I knew it was serious but then the next bit should have gone really slowly.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I also do appreciate mum keeping it private until it was serious and the way she introduced Adam to us.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I remember we were with family friends and he just came along and was like this is mum's friend and we all kind of knew what was going on but you know we just this is mum's friend and it was it was very casual wasn't a big deal um and I don't remember the introduction to Adam being particularly fast.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was slow um he used to come over with chocolate and like it was you know we weren't allowed to eat that much chocolate as little kids so this was so exciting um but it was it wasn't yeah it wasn't Adam himself it was the kids and introducing all of us together because I think there's also the idea of oh my god all the kids it'll be like this big brady bunch it's not gonna be like that you're gonna be so lucky if you get a big brady bunch because I'm gonna say nine times out of ten you'll get along like you'll get along enough to be friendly but it's just it's not gonna be a Brady bunch and it just was not a Brady bunch.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: No it wasn't and there's so many I think it's a whole other podcast episode so many other blending so many other factors maybe you can come on and talk about that in a whole other episode anyway for now let's leave it at that and move on.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your share um and I was aware that Eva was going to share around that but I wasn't quite sure what she was going to say so I'm breathing a little bit of sorrow there.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Next question Eva how do you think our divorce our family your dad's my ongoing relationship has shaped or influenced and positively or negatively your own approach to love and relationship?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: This is such a good question because I think for a lot of kids of divorce it makes you really cynical and I know a lot of friends of mine who have divorced parents are quite cynical about love and relationships and if something kind of maybe doesn't go well it's like okay let's throw in the towel but I don't think that's what it's done for me.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is always the kind of fear and I use that in inverted comments like fear in the back of your mind something can happen anything can happen you know even if you fall in love get married and nothing's guaranteed but I think also having a predominantly positive experience has made divorce something that's very much normalized and not something to be feared so it hasn't necessarily shaped my kind of view on relationships in any any negative way.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think in in terms of like how it's shaped my view of relationships really I think it's kind of taught me how not to behave um which sounds a bit silly but I think as a child of divorce it can be really hard to have positive role models in terms of relationships which is something I've noticed particularly as I've gotten older and like I've been in a long-term relationship for going on four years now which is a really long time actually now you say it out loud but I think yeah your and dad's divorce and kind of ongoing relationship has taught me how to behave if you want a relationship to last like you've got to be a good communicator you've got to work as a team you need to you know kind of value yourself as a whole individual person and not compromise your own morals for the sake of someone else's happiness because that's not going to get you very far at all but also be willing to yeah be a team and you it's a relationship takes two people to make it work um and so you've got to put in what you want to get out of it as well.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think the biggest thing is communication like that is one of the biggest things and I've watched mum and dad as much as like and I say they hid I want to say 90% of their arguments from us but their biggest arguments are about communication one wouldn't say this one would say this one would get snappy and then this would happen and this would happen so I think that's what it's taught me no matter and like this is romantic relationship but also friendship like just communicate I think is the biggest thing that mum and dad have taught me and communicate in a positive way not a negative way okay so leading on from that what what's most important to you and you just said you know you've been in a long-term relationship with an awesome lovely human for four years going on four years what's most important to you as you navigate that partnership um future relationships or that relationship for the future any relationship really for the future whether it's with the same person or someone else I think the most important thing to me is probably being a team like and we for some context we've just travelled for three months together and I think that was one of the best things we did because we realized there's two of us and we'd be in some random country on some random bus in the middle of nowhere there was just two of us and it was kind it's kind of a good metaphor because in your relationship God knows what else is going on in your world but there's only two of you and you need like I just think you two need to be a team and stick together and yeah just you're on the same team you're not whatever even if you're having an argument at the end of the day you're actually on the same team and so if you have that as your end goal you'll always get back to that but also I think one of the most important things to me in any relationship whether it's friendship or romantic is not to compromise your own happiness for the sake of someone else.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: How'd you get so wise kid got two good parents two good parents that taught me well um but yeah not not compromise your own happiness and also not compromise the things that really make you you or your morals or your values for the sake of a relationship whether that's friendship or romantic.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think mum and I have talked a lot about that particularly navigating friendships can be really hard it's the same as in a relationship but if someone something doesn't align with you then I think at the end of the day you kind of know in your gut that that's not right and that's probably one of the important biggest and most important things.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah so follow your gut trust your intuition trust your gut trust your gut trust your gut at the end of the day just trust your gut okay two final questions someone who shall remain nameless but who who is sitting right next to me submitted this on my Instagram poll and I asked what would you like me to ask Eva and that was who is the legend of the family Eva I actually thought this was really funny when I submitted it and I thought kind of thought that mum would ask or that I thought mum would answer and mum would say it was me but then this is gonna be funny because when I was talking to dad about the fact that I was going on the podcast he was like oh you can talk about me it's so fine why don't you just tell them all my tell them all that I'm a legend so I think that just shows the egos that we've got in our family so there's probably four legends in this family it just depends who you ask all right to finish I thought I would throw it in your throw the ball in your direction and give you a give you a free pass to um ask anything you want to ask of me so finally is there anything you would like to ask me I was gonna ask what would you do differently but I think I know the answer to that so I'm gonna ditch that one.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: You might not know the answer but you're gonna no there's a I've got a better question.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: What is the best thing and the worst thing about yours and dads divorce in terms of both you as a person but also our family and you as a mum and I I have not had um no I've just thrown you in the DJ I had no warning so I think that the worst thing is that looking back if I if I knew myself as well as I do now back when your dad and I got married.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's not forget I was 24 and was 25 when we got married like that's a small child.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: That gives me a bit of anxiety I'm 21 I'm like absolutely no way would I get married in a couple of years.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if I knew myself as well as I do now back then if I had the communication skills and some of those communication skills I'm gonna say Mike taught me if I had the communication skills then that I have now if I had the knowledge and the conflict resolution skills that I had now I think we could have made it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it's easy to look back now you know it's easy to look back and go oh so I think um yeah that's the worst thing looking back and going damn because I actually still really like your dad he's funny you know and we've we've got such a long um a long bond a long term bond given that you know we first dated when I was like 15 or something ridiculous.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so that that I think that's one of the hard things.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: The best thing for me as a person is that as an individual I felt like I was I was in the Mike Corcoran sidecar.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Mike's so you know and that's one of the things that's so amazing and attractive about him.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's so passionate and so driven and so focused on his life his dream his goals that you just got to get on this in the sidecar and go with it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't do that.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't be fully me.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't bring all that I had as a human as a woman as a person um and live you know my life alongside I I just had to be in the sidecar.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the best thing about separating from him was that it enabled me to do that and to step in.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know if I'm really brutally honest the worst thing is um has been cheering you guys and waving you off and seeing you go off on adventures and even just seeing you go off day to day you know when you were little literally peeling you off my body and popping you in the car and strapping you into either car seats or seat belts and waving you off bye bye walking back inside and just bursting into tears and dissolving that was incredible.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: That was a traumatic that was a traumatic bit about mum and dad's divorce like we said earlier we just were not used to being with dad without mum and we would spend like 70% of the time with mum and that was hard for everybody.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was pretty awful yeah I think it was also hard for dad yeah he kind of gets the short end of you come that one doesn't it sounds like we weren't excited to spend time with him.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: We were as soon as we got there we were fine he does and I guess the other the other negative is you know it doesn't matter whether you're dividing five dollars fifty dollars five million fifty million dollars when you divide your assets you divide your assets there's less so while there there's all and I often talk about it you know dividing assets means there's less money but there's also more so that's a that's a positive and a negative you know complete control over my own financial resources and also dot dot dot less of those resources so does that answer your question yeah it does um I also find it really interesting when mum says there's always the what if um because something that a couple of my best friends have said to me recently particularly when they hang out with mum and dad together say like grand final day or even my birthday party um they say god we can see why they got together but also we can see why they're not together anymore um just because mum and dad's personalities are so different so there's a what if but also oh my god I can't see them together anymore I think that's a pretty nice place to um to end this one to end yeah thank you so much like I have really really enjoyed this chat I didn't quite know where it was headed but I think it's gonna be it's been beautiful.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's been good it's been beautiful for other people to listen.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I hope it helps even one person to hear from a kid that divorce isn't gonna end your ch children's life.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Actually that's what I said to you when we were very very first talking about this that's like the one thing if someone is worried about getting divorced because they don't want to impact their kids I think staying in an unhealthy relationship or an unhappy relationship is probably going to impact them more and teach them that that's okay because I don't think it is um I'm gonna end there because I'm about to cry because that is the reason that Mike and I separated in the end.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to raise our kids in a way that demonstrated to them what happy healthy adults look like and we feared that staying together we wouldn't be able to do that.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks Ava thanks you're welcome I'm Sally Ann Hartnell Relationship Coach and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at ReflectCoaching and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode please please share it with them.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Until then