Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 960: Mastering Wind to Kill Mature Bucks with Mark Drury

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Ep. 960: Mastering Wind to Kill Mature Bucks with Mark Drury · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: the show, I'm joined by Mark Drury, or a masterclass
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: on all things related to wind and its impact on
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: hunting mature bucks. All right, welcome back to the Wired
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light and their
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Camo for Conservation Initiative. Today we have an absolute gem
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  Speaker 1: of an episode. I'm joined by the one and only
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the mad Scientist himself, Mark Drury. Some of our very
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: best episodes of this podcast ever over the long history
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: of this show have been with Mark Drury. He is
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a wealth of information. He's a terrific educator and communicator
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: about deer and deer hunting. If you haven't listened to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: our past episodes with him, go ahead and do that.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: If you want to have a true, deep, mind blowing
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: white tail experience leading up to your next hunt, go
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and binge listen to some of our past episodes. Episode
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: sixty three, which was our first one with him about
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: predicting deer movement. I've listened to it so many times
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and had so many people reference it that I can
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: just think of it off the top of my head.
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  Speaker 1: Episode sixty three is one we have a follow up
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to that about predicting deer movement. I think that's called
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: like a master class on predicting deer movement. That one's
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: maybe even better because it just gets right into the
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: meat and potatoes of that. We did an amazing episode
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: recently about patterning deer. We did another really good one
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: about everything he thinks about in the Moment of truth
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: and right after shots. So just go and google Wired
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: to Hunt Mark Dreury and listen to those past episodes
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: and then, or maybe right after what we're about to
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: do today, listen to this one, because this is on
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: that same level. Today is a masterclass with Mark Dreury
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: on win and there's maybe nothing more important to hunting
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: mature deer, hunting deer of any age or type than
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: win because their number one survival tool is their nose.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: If you can't beat their nose, you can't kill them.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: That's what it comes down to. Today we discuss exactly
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: how Mark Drury uses his understanding of wind and a
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: deer's nose to close the distance and fail tags. So
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: we are going to ask him, or or I do
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: ask him, so many ridiculously nitty gritty questions about the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: impacts of thermals aerometric pressure, how that impacts wind and thermals.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: How deer use thermals, how we as hunters can use thermals,
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  Speaker 1: How terrain features impact thermals, How ditches and rivers and
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: creeks and ponds impact wind and thermals. We talk through
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: how deer use the wind to make decisions about where
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: they bed, how they approach their bed, how they decide
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: where they might go feed during the evening, where they
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: go feed in the evening, how they use wind during
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: the rut, how they use wind toscent check, how Mark
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: thinks about all of this when choosing where to hunt
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: on any given night, or how to account for the
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: risk of being winded when deciding where to hunt. This
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: is fascinating stuff. If you are a white tailed geek
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: like I am, this episode is gonna be right up
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: your alley. I'm just gonna get right into it. I
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: think we should jump into this episode as fast as
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: possible because it is a banger. It's full of information.
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  Speaker 1: It will help you on your very next hunt, I
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  Speaker 1: guarantee you so. Thanks for tuning in. Enjoy this chat
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: with Mark Drury. Make sure to go check out those
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: past episodes that we did with them. They are terrific
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: as well, and best of luck on your next hunt.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: All right with me on the line now is the
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  Speaker 1: one and only mad scientist, mister Mark Drury. Welcome back
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: to the show.
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  Speaker 2: Mark. I'm Mark. How are you doing.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: I'm great. I gotta tell you, I'm very appreciative of
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the fact that you made time for this amidst the
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: first big cold front of the year, So thank you
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: for that.
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  Speaker 2: You know, there's some benefits to not hunting, a lot
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: of more warnings, and this is one of them. So
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: we had a late night, as I indicated via my
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: text last night, so we were not getting to stand
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  Speaker 2: this morning no matter what.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the first cold front it turned up pretty
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  Speaker 1: well for you, it did.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: We went with three different crews last night, one in Iowa,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: two in Missouri. I was filming Taylor in Missouri, Coon,
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  Speaker 2: Dog and Wade were out together in Missouri, and then
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  Speaker 2: Carson and Darren were in Iowa. And I really felt like,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: you know, with running three crews, we would see some
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: mature deer on their feet. Taylor and I did not.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: We had a good sit in terms of seeing deer,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: but nothing with any age. Darren and Carson the same deer.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Numbers decent, but no age. And then Wade and Coon
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Dog have a deer that we've never seen while hunting.
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  Speaker 2: They were targeting him and we needed that win yesterday
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  Speaker 2: and he walks out at six and Wade gets a
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  Speaker 2: shot at twelve or thirteen yards and smokes this what
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  Speaker 2: we estimate to be at least a seven and a
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: half year old deer. Because last year this was a
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  Speaker 2: farm that I had purchased after selling a couple other farms,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: and we put a lot of effort into the setup
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: of this farm and the production there in and we
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: featured it with the Dear Season twenty four quite a
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: bit and Wade ended up taking a really nice year
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: on that farm, but not this number one target. We
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: felt like he was the oldest year on the farm.
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  Speaker 2: We never even saw him while we were hunting, and
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: we hunted him a good bit, and based on the
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: trail picture history I had with him, we really narrowed
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: down this is where he daylights the most. He's got
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: to be bedding out this one finger ridg there's a
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  Speaker 2: bunch of oaks in there, and there's a lot of
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: acorns there. This year, I'm sure you have a good
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: mask crop as well, and we just needed a north
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: wind to get in there, which anybody listening, if you've
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: hunted from you know, mid September through early October, you
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: know that those have been rare. And finally we got
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: when last night and this guy walks out. He's just
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  Speaker 2: a big, what we think is at least a seven
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  Speaker 2: and a half year old deer, a main frame nine
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  Speaker 2: point with a kicker and a giant body. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: the neck on this deer. I have to show you
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  Speaker 2: a picture. I don't know if you can be rule
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: this or not, but looking for sure at the neck
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: on that deer.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Jeez, we didn't love and you can see those big
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: skin rolls even when he's not bent.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: That looks like a November deer, you know. Yeah, And
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: uh so, I'm pretty sure he's a he's at least
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: six and a half or seven and a half. Rather
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: we thought he was six and a half last year.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: But there's a good shot with perspective of weigh behind him,
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  Speaker 2: big big, big Missouri deer as far as Missouri dit
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: deer go body wise and neck, and I mean, that's
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: that's what you're after. They seldom get to that age.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: But it was cool to go into a new farm
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: and make it happen on the second year on what
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: was the number one target.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So well, it's especially sweet. I don't know if you
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: feel this way, but it does seem especially sweet to me,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: at least when you have the hunts that you predict
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: being like extra special. I think that this is going
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: to be an extra special time because of X and Y,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna have the perfect spot because of you know, A,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: B and C, and you have everything dialed up just right,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and then it actually goes that way, which it sounds like,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you know this one did. When that when the whole
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: script goes the way you write it, that doesn't happen
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: too often, but when it does, it is a very
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  Speaker 1: good feeling.
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  Speaker 2: Case in point, we had three scripts last night, all
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: excellent spots. One script played out and the others didn't.
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  Speaker 2: So there's still that that numbers game with white tailt hunting.
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  Speaker 2: You know that that du factor or not so due
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: factor in a spot or a person or whatever it is,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: so that it can be a numbers game at times.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the truth. So so many people have been
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  Speaker 1: waiting for this cold front, which you know has just hit,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: you know, earlier this week for a lot of people,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of us have been dealing with warm weather.
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  Speaker 1: You were dealing with warm we weather leading up to this,
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  Speaker 1: and you still were able to find some success last week. Great.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me about that one we did?
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  Speaker 2: The highs were in the upper eighties every single day,
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  Speaker 2: and it was it was just really hot and lack
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: of wind. You know, it was just every day it
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: was three, four or five mile an hour winds, which
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: oftentimes are quite variable, as you know. And finally we
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: had a day where some clouds rolled in. I was
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: watching deer cast religiously and I saw that cloud back coming.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: And clouds affect deer differently in the early season versus
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: late season, especially when it's a really hot period, and
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the clouds shield the sun and
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: cool things off, and I mean everything got up and moved.
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  Speaker 2: They were as ready for the hot weather to be
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: over as we were. And we ended up seeing three
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  Speaker 2: different shooters that night. And we'd been sitting there because
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: we had a good access in and out, and we'd
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: been sitting there five nights. This was the fourth night
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  Speaker 2: in a row we had sat there, and all of
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  Speaker 2: a sudden, everything moved in a field that we hadn't
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  Speaker 2: hadn't seen a ton in. I mean we saw a movement,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: but not the shooters. And it just worked out on
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: a buck that was again ancient, really big old buck
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  Speaker 2: that Taylor and I saw him once last year, but
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  Speaker 2: that was it, and he was actually I went in
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  Speaker 2: there with a buck in mine based on trail pictures
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  Speaker 2: that I considered to be the target in Missouri and
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: on that farm, and then he walks out, and this
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: year comes out. They kind of came out a different
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: ends of the field, and then this year immediately walks
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: him off. And when they got together, the deer that
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I shot, his body was twenty five percent bigger roughly,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I had this all wrong, Like
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I think that dear's younger than I thought he was.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: And this dear walks him off, and I quickly switched
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: my focus. You know. Kuddog was like that thing's a tank,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: and he was. He walked everything off the field and
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: then eventually came by us. And it was an easy
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: choice when I saw his body, his head, his demeanor,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: you know, but uh, he was clearly a shooter, you know,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: a nine point main frame with a with a kicker
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: out the front.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah that was cool.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, cool deer, beautiful deer, big deer. And again I
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: saw him once last year and this was the first
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: time I'd seen him this year, so it was it
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: was a fun huh.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: So you know you hunted that spot you said four
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: days in a row, is that right?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Four in a row?
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, four in a row, and you didn't have good conditions, right,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: It was hot, it was other than the clouds awful.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: So so you know, when it comes to stretches where
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: you have that poor weather, does it come down to
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: just finding a spot that you can hunt repeatedly because
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of great access and entry, so that eventually you have
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to count on that numbers game finally giving you a chance.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: If we sit this five lousy days in a row,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: but in a spot that we are not going to
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: be detected, we might finally get him coming through. Is
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: that the idea you summed it up.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Had we been having poor luck with deer blowing and
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: getting out of there on our way in or out
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: or while we were hunting, I would not have continued
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: with that approach. But we weren't, so Kundog and I
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: just kept it's a it's this creek that winds through
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: the woods with a giant, warm seasoned grass field that
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: we come down through, sneak into the creek, and then
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: we go north along the creek up an embankment fifteen
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: feet on a wooden ladder we built, and then into
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: our stand. So in and out is quite easy, and
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: we just weren't getting caught. Our thermals were dumping into
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: that creek, and you know, we would wait till the
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: field would clear, and we got kind of got lucky
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: because they stayed in this area and then they often
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: will move move on out the north end of the
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: field and up into a bean field that's quite some
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: distance away. So every night, you know, the movement would
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: occur and the field would empty and we would we
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: would get on out. So we had a little luck
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: on our side. Would just with the way the movement
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: is there. It's not always that way, but this in
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: this scenario, it worked for us. And then on the fifth, ninth,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: fourth in a row, I got the shot because clouds
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: moved in what was supposed to be a high of
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: eighty eight dropped like eighty one or eighty two, and
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: they did it that night and the pressure was high.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: That was the other reason I continue to hunt it.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: The pressure was bouncing between twenty nine point ninety five
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: and thirty point oh five, all five of those days,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: specifically those four That's why I kept going back because
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, sooner or later they're going to show here,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: because I had pictures of some good bucks in this area.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: So it was a de factor.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: So you talked about something there that I would like
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to circle back on. It is kind of the main
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: focus of what I was hoping to pick your brain about.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: I selfishly, over the year's mark, have always come to
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: you with like a deep burning question. Usually for each
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: one of our chats. We've done some really good ones
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: about predicting deer movement. We've done some really good ones
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: about patterning deer about kind of moment in the kind
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: of moment of truth situations. We had a really good
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: chante about that a few years ago. But I thought
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: today something you just mentioned would be perfect to kind
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: of peel back some layers of the onion, which is
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: everything related to wind, Like this is like the name
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: of the game. With mature white tails, right, they use
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: their nose, that's their ultimate survival weapons. So as a hunter,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: we need to have a master's understanding of wind to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: combat that. And I don't know if we give it
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: enough thought, or maybe I just don't give it enough thought,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: because there's the basics and then there's these thousands of
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: other little nuanced things. So if you would be so,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: if you'd be patient enough to hear a few of
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: my questions on this, i'd love you for you to
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: first expand on the thermal question that you just brought
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: out there. You mentioned the fact that you had this
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: spot where you could drop your thermals back behind you,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: And I think that sometimes people assume that thermals are
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: just something you need to worry about in really big hills.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: But you're hunting in you know, moderate terrain. I think,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I know there's some topography, but it's not like moderate. Yeah,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: it's not like Virginia or Western Mountains or something. Right, So,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: how do you think about thermals with your hunts, both
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: with how deer are using thermals and then how you
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: think about thermals when you plan your sets.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I think, first of all, understanding thermals as as the
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Earth's temperature cools, thermals are going down to the lowest
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: part that's evening. In the morning, as the surface warms up,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: sun comes out, those thermals start to go up and rise,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and barometric pressure also helps that accentuate them going up
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: higher and getting on out of there. Well, if it's
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: high pressure, if it's low pressure, think of it kind
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: of almost not having as much of a thermal effect.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: It kind of squashes that top layer down and they
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: might move up a little bit and down a little bit,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: but they don't have that drastic up and down that
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: they will on a high pressure day.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: No, sorry to interject, but is it on a does
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: it do the opposite though with a low pressure day?
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: So with a low pressure day, would that be pushing.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: That's high pressure high pressure, I think there is a
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: much greater thermal effect way up way down going low pressure.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I think it is much more condensed. Low pressure kind
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of holds everything in. You're still going to have some
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: warming and it'll go up in the morning and down
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: of the evening. However, it's not nearly the distance that
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: you would experience. You know, it might be it might
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: be one hundred feet that it's doing it, or two
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: hundred feet that it's doing it. On a high pressure day,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: thermals rising on up into the into the sky or
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: pushing all the way down to the bottom of the valley.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: On a low pressure day, it might only be ten
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: to fifteen feet that it affects it, but it still
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: affects it. And I'm I could be off on those figures,
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: but it's just in my mind, I know that it
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't do what it does on a high pressure day.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's not nearly as distinct either like low pressure day
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: as you just don't feel it as much at you yourself.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: So do you think is that part of why you
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: like high pressure days so much for hunting? Is I mean,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I understand there's like a there's a there's a factor
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: that impacts deer movement itself, but as part of it
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: also the fact that it's lifting your scent as well.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I think it kind of goes hand in hand, you know.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's just the two go go together. And
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: that's one of the things when we did deer Cast
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and we worked on all those different weather variables, oftentimes
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: when variables would repeat themselves, it was because a similar
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: system was coming through, you know, like you get a
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: high pressure system northwest wind, you know it starts with
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: the low, the wind gets up, it ushers the low out,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the high pressure moves in. You get that one windy day,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: then the wind calms down, and it's kind of repetitive.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: So you often get things that work in concert with
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: one another, if you will. So, whether I like it
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: because of that reason, not necessarily. I like high pressure days.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Is the movement's better? It is probably a bonus that
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the thermals act in such a way that they are
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: drastically going up in the morning and pouring downward in
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: the evening on a high pressure day, I mean drastic
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: evening cooling.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: So is there ever a time when you will set
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: up in a place with a given wind direction that
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: maybe is not perfect, but you are counting on the
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: pressure to help you accentuate a thermal to be able
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: to get rid of something where you say, like, hey,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I know this is going to be a little bit risky,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: but because of the high barometric pressure, and I think
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: these bucks are coming late morning or something, when the
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: thermals start rising, I'm going to lift my air over
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: top of them. Is that something that you are confident
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: enough to set up on?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? If you're up in topography high on the ridge
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: and your wind is not anxiety. I really wish I
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: had a north northeast today, but it's north northwest. I
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: think I can cool these deer because of the fact
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: that after about seven thirty or eight o'clock, my thermals
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: are going to be, you know, chimneying up and out
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: of here. And you get by with murder on high
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: pressure days in terms of your scent. If you're high
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: in topography and you've got a reasonably favorable wind, you
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: get by with murder. I mean, you really do it?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Is it just it alleviates a lot of problems for
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: hunters because your stuff's going up and not necessarily in
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the direction the wind is blowing. Yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So another kind of thermal factor that I'm always wondering
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: about is how the predominant, like the regular wind that
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: day and the thermals interact. How much wind or how
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: low of a wind do you need for the thermals
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: to be the main influence for your scent versus how
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: fast of a wind do you need to have for
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: thermals to not really matter anymore because the actual wind
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: is pushing your your scent somewhere else.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know that it matters a heck of a
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: lot in theory. In your mind, you think it matters
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: a lot. But those thermals and in many cases will
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: overpower wind speed because regardless of wind speed, you have
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: those ebbs and flows of a windy day. Right, if
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: you've got to call it a seventeen mile an hour
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: northwest wind will it's it's gonna gust to twenty three
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: and it's gonna subside down to ten. And so you
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: still get these ebbs and flows peaks and valleys where
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: that thermal is still still going to take over. I
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: think thermals in many many cases are as powerful or
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: more powerful in terms of what can help you get
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: away with fooling a deer or not fooling a deer
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: as the wind speed and direction.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: What do you think about like the thermal effect in
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: flat areas where there's not you know, really significant topography
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and you're in relatively flat you know, ag land or
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Same of the morning, when it's warming up, it's gonna
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: go up, and in an evening it's gonna cool down
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: and blanket things. If you don't have much of a
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: wind speed, I mean, it's gonna blanket probably in three
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty degrees around your spot. Everybody can relate
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: to sitting there waiting all day for deer. Thirty. You
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: were warm, sitting in your stand. High that day was
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: fifty degrees. All of a sudden, the sun goes down,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: the earth cools, you get that little chill, and the
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: deer start moving, and then straight up wind of you,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: you got a deer that catches you. That's a thermal issue.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: You know, you might have a six seven eight mile
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: mile in our wind, but that that deer caught that thermal.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Those thermals are heavy. That's the one thing about a
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: thermal wind is light in terms of how much weight
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: it has, But when that cooling effect happens, there's nothing
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: stopping that downflow. Nothing's gonna stop it, so it's a
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: very heavy effect. Same in the morning when you get
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: into you know seven forty five eight eight thirty and
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: the rapid warm up, that stuff's bellowing up in the
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: air like a chimney and nothing's gonna catch you, especially
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: on high pressure days.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: So can you walk me through how you think about
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that when you're setting up a place to hunt. You
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: know you mentioned something earlier, but i'd love for you
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: just to kind of explicitly explain how that factors into
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: when you're looking at a good hunting spot where you
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: pick your tree or your blind location. Given those two changes.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: As a general rule of thumb, of a morning, I
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: love to be higher intopography, I just absolutely love it.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I will hunt low intopography, but my preference is to
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: be somewhere on a ridge just out of my own
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: instinct and of an evening. I love hunting bottoms or
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: lower into pography. I dislike hunting a ridge of an
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: evening unless I have something for it to fall off too,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: or if I have a great wind speed that I
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: have a confidence level that it's going to take it
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and dump it somewhere else. So that's just general rule
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: of thumb. You know, there's no there, you know always
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: it never are not good words for white tol hunters.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: You know, it's more about probabilities and trying to put
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: the odds in your favor. Last night was a great
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: example for Wade and Kuondog. That was a ridgetop because
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: that's where he would come out every evening, and we
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: put it for a north wind with a pretty good
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: slope going down, so that A we had the north wind.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: B we had the thermal effect pushing it away from
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: this ridgetop where he was. He was walking based on
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: last year's trail pictures and it worked out quite well,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: although the deer gave them a curveball and came out.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Was walking this long ridgetop that we had a green
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: field on, and then all of a sudden cold front.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: He's been walking that ridge in the green warm weather.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Cold front, he did a yui and went straight into
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: this beanfield down the bottom. The colder weather green turned
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: the grain and luckily he was within range of the
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: blind when he made when he threw him that curveball,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and Wade was able to make a great shot on him. So,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: and I was sitting there last night. I was in
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: a bottom field on a green field, and I told Taylor.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, I just wonder if I didn't make
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: a mistake given the some verity of this coal front,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: and I should have sat grain, which is another general
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: rule of thumb of mine. When it's cold, I sit
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: close to grain. When it's warm, I sit close to green.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: And again it's not always or never, it's just something
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I've seen tendencies where they'll do that, and luckily Wade
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: and Kundall got one. But you know, we sat that
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: greenfield and we saw a decent movement of no age.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: What do you think about setting up on small depressions,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: counting on that thermal drop like a ditch or a creek.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: So that's something you sometimes will do.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I do it a lot, But I will say this,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: sometimes they'll fool you in what those thermals will do
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: once they get into that depression. They'll snake around and
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: come back out and whatnot. And it really can only
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: be proven or disproven through time. In other words, I
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: think this is going to work, but boy, until you
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: sit there through a ver i different temperatures, wind speeds,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: leaves on, leaves off, time of the year, you really
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: don't know. I talk a lot about wind scouting, where
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: you're also thermal scouting. When you're out there, what exactly
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: is happening to my win? And I'm a wind checker
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: maniac man. I'm constantly checking it, constantly checking it, and
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: it freaks me out when I see it doing all
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: these weird different things. And I don't think you could
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: check your wind enough when you're in a hunting situation.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Whether you're on your way to the stand, whether you're
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: sitting in the stand, whether you're trying to get out
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: of the stand, know where it's going because oftentimes what
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: you feel isn't necessarily what it's doing. So through time
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: you find those little spots you're like, holy cow, this
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: worked on an east southeast wind at ten mile an
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: hour with a high of fifty degrees and pressure above thirty.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: You might go there the next time leaves off pressure lower,
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: different wind speed, and all of a sudden, it doesn't
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: work for you. So you can only learn that through
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: time and taking good notes and remembering the conditions that
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: it that you had when it worked versus didn't work,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: and avoid those in the future.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: He speaking of you just mentioned, oh, with such and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: such barometric pressure, it worked back to what we were talking
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: about just a minute ago, which was the when high bear.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: When bear metric pressure is high, it will accentuate thermals.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Have you found there's like a threshold, like how high
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: is high for that to be the case? Have you
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: seen anything we can make our well it's over thirty
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: point two, or if it's over thirty or anything.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Barometric pressure is relative to the time of the year.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: This time of the year, twenty nine point nine five
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: is pretty high, you know, you get to December twenty nine,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: twenty nine point nine five is not overly high. You
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: know that winter air just brings in much higher pressure,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and I think they almost have an internal system that
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: reacts to the time of the year. I mean, clearly
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: their coats change from now till December, you know, and
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: pressure that's high now is like twenty nine point ninety
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: five to thirty point one, thirty point one five. You
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: get up thirty point two to thirty point three, you're
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: really high, whereas in December you might consistently get thirty
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: point one to thirty thirty point two five, you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you get this day
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: where it's thirty point six to thirty point seven and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: it's like the deer walking around with their head about
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: to explode. But you do get those wild days. We're
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: really really high barometric pressure, So it's not the same
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: throughout the year this time of the year. I love
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: twenty talking about the early season year September and up
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: through mid October twenty nine point nine five, thirty point
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: five thirty point one right there is a real sweet
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: spot for optimization of deer movement. In my opinion, I
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: see a lot of deer on their feet in that
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: pressure range.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: So one last thermal ish related curiosity have I guess
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I want to confirm some of my thoughts would be
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the impacts of water, so standing water or moving water.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: So one thing I've always thought is is if I'm
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: in a situation where I have low and variable winds,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I've always thought about trying to set up if there's
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: a creek or a river or something that if I
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: were set up close to that water, I could have
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: a thermal that might drop into that water or into
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: that creek or river, and that the movement of that water,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: whatever the direction the river or creek is moving, would
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: likely suck my wind down along with that. Is there
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: any have you seen that? Have you experienced that? I've
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: seen that in some experiences.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: I've also seen it play the opposite effect that I
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: thought I wanted it to do, because with that river
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: comes aflow and almost a flow of thermalization and wind.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Have you ever noticed that along a river like you
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: can stand next to it without any wind, yet you
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: feel a flow that the water is pushing these thermals
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: one way or the other. So again it would only
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: come through time that you would you would learn whether
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: that works or doesn't work. The other thing that I
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: notice around water ponds or creeks, or especially if it's
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: it's reasonably deep, you have a much more accentuated change
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: in pressure, so that really cool cool water. Will look
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: at a pond in the morning that's warm on a
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: cool morning, there's fog coming up off of it, right,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: and yet you don't see that fog anywhere else. So
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the temperature of that water can perhaps help you, but
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it could also hurt you because it's different thermal activity
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: in and around that that body of temperature versus the
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: grass or the ground or rocks or trees, if that
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: makes sense. So they can be trickier around water. They
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: may be tricky to the point that it helps you
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: more because it's doing something very consistently, taking your thermals
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: down into a creek and moving them on to your example.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: But then again it may have a flow to it
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: that curls it back up on top, and a deer
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: gets you way up when that you didn't anticipate, you know, Yeah,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: that's a tricky thermal pool in and around water, it's
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: different than land.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Is there any other terrain feature or habitat feature that
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: has a unique thermal effect I'm wondering, like a very sunny,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: open hillside versus a dark, cool forest. Do you ever
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: have like a different strategy about how you're thinking about
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: winding thermals based on those two sets or something else
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: like that?
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, again, based on the temperature of the earth. If
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: it's cooler, as you start to have evening thermals dropping down,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it's not going to be as accentuated as if it
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: was a hot, open area and those thermals go down dustly.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: You'll also see a touch of a delay in the
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: thermals cooling that area off. Do you ever notice if
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: you're hunting a bottom and you're walking out of it
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and it's really cool down in that bottom and about
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: halfway up that hill, boom, it's like a ten degree
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: difference in temperature, Like it just takes much longer for
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: that stuff that was that was warmed by the sun
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: all day to cool off as opposed to the shaded
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: bottom where the tree tops were. That's just an example,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: So again I keep going back to you only learn
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: those things through experience. As to whether something's going to
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: work or not. And I've had spots that I stopped
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: hunting because my thermals would get me on the way out,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: like I would hunt a bottom and I'm trying to
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: get out of a steep hill. Yet this thermal's pouring
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: in and alerting the deer that I just escaped the
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: field from, because it's pushing my thermal down the hill
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: from the top that's still warm, whereas in the bottom
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: and it all equalized and my set was on the ground.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Then I started my ascent out of there, and boom,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: a new set of thermals is pushing me down into
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: where they just came from. So I've had a few
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: stands like that that I just quit hunting, especially in
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: the early season.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: With all this in mind, like all these effects that
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the that the thermals are having on where our scent goes,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of theories that hunters have about how
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: deer might be using this. What do you think about
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: how deer are using thermals to their advantage? Have you
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: seen like, hey, they're oftentimes going to travel to this
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: area or in this way because of thermals. Are there
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: any kind of rules that.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: You've seen absolutely. I think when you see a deer
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: circling down wind to check out a calling position, or
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: perhaps they caught movement in the tree and like, what
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: is it, I'm going to go check that they may
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: have you ever had a deer catch you bicircling you
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: know what she's doing or he's doing. He's trying to
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: get my position. Yet they don't reach your downwind side,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: but they still catch you.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: They went down Sure it's happened.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: They went down thermal as opposed to downwind. So yes,
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: they use it as a very powerful force for them.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: If you catch them of an evening is when most
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: of this happens. Of a morning. If it's a decent,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: you know, warm up day, that stuff's going up, and
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: they have a much tougher time catching you. When you've
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: got a nice day that's warming. Of a morning, they
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: can circle you and circle you because they saw a
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: movement in the tree, and yet they can't detect you
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: because everything's going straight up. But evening's a little trickier.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: But they will down thermal you as quick as they
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: will downwind you, So yes, they use them to their advantage.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: What about this is kind of getting to some of
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the other ways that deer are relating to wind in general.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: But there's some you know, anecdotes around deer going to
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: low spots like what some people refer to the thermal
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: hubs these days. Imagine like a low bottom with a
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: bunch of points dropping down into it. The idea being
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: during the rut a buck and cruise down in some
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: place like this where all the scent pools from all
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the ridges and points around it, and that's a place
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: to very quickly scent check larger areas or something like that.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Have you seen deer using that, you know, thermals in
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: that kind of way before.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly. I mean I don't get into the weeds
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: on it quite to that degree, you know, to where
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: sometimes I think, and I think the advent of all
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the different mapping programs out there on X or deer
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Cast or hunt Stand, whichever the once. Sometimes I think
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: that off season is a long period of time, and
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: we spend so much time creating theories in our mind
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: off of the three D topography and everything, but in
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: reality it might not necessarily be that way once you
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: get out there and watch the deer's activity. So I
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: don't know that I've ever witnessed that per se in
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: terms of where I processed it and thought, well, that
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: buck just went to the bottom where all these points
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: came together, because that was a thermal pool. You know,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: perhaps he did right. But one thing's for sure. As
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: the earth cools down and he's low and topography, he's
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: gonna he's gonna get more scenting done than if he's
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: up on a ridge.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about some more wind theories. Then
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: there's some more theories, and there's a lot about wind.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: You have some that I've heard you share over the years.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: I'd like to review a few of those. Sure changes
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: in wind direction. We just had one that happened where
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: there was a bunch of south winds and we just
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: got a big north, a big shift. How have you
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: seen changes in wind direction impacted deer population in their movement?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Well, again, it goes back to what I was talking about.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of these things accompany other weather factors. So
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: it's cold front and we went from south to a north.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: So was it the wind direction switch? Or was it
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: the ushering in of high pressure? Was it the wind
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: speed switch? A lot of these things work collectively. What
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: I do notice with regularity is where deer bed based
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: on wind direction, and especially with wind speed. I always
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: think back to a field I used to have on
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: this giant ridge in Iowa, and it was about the
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: size of I'm gonna say, three or four football fields together.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: It was a big field, five acres. It ran north
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: to south as true as it could possibly run, and
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: I had a blind on one end and a blind
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: on the other with access in both ways. That worked
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: quite well. But when the wind was out of the
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: north and I was on the south end of the field,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: all the deer were always on the north end of
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: the field. And then when the wind was opposite and
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I was on the other end of the field, they
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: were where I was on the north wind. So I
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: never forgot that, and I was like, how do they
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: know where I'm at? It I was younger, right, It
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't that they knew where I was at. It was
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: that the wind direction switched where they were betting for
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: that day. Wind speed will also do that to them.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I always think in terms of how high is the
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: wind speed? How low do you think they'll bet in
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: topography to get out of that wind? How low is
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: the wind speed? The bed all of a sudden expands
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: in terms of the options for a buck, So it's
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: more about where they'll bed when it comes to a
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: wind switch, in my opinion, and that also differs early
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: season of late season, and it's food predominant activity versus
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: the rut, when the activity is throughout the day, so
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: bedrooms could pop up literally anywhere during the rut. This
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: time of the year, they're much more defined. Early season.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Late season, they're much more defined. They're much more much
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: more opportunities for a deer to bed with security this
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: time of the year than late season, when all the
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: leaves are off the trees. They're seeking thermal units. So
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: it changes as the leaves come off the trees, it
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: changes with temperature, it changes with what phased the deer
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: in at the time of the year. So some of
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the scouting that you do, it's always great, I think
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: for anyone to take lots of notes and any little
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: thing they learned that day, keep track of it because
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I can, as I'm sitting here today, bet you one
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars that same occurrence is going to happen to
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: you in future years. And that's how you end up
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: eliminating a lot of mistakes and things that you did
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: that did not succeed, and start doing more of the
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: things where you had success based on those notes and learning.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: It's it's so nuanced it's impossible to remember it all,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: but it is possible to note it all and then
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: read through those notes in the off season.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I want to unpack a little bit a few things
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: you said there in a little bit more detail. One
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: was wind speed impacts on betting, and I want to
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: repeat what you said and make sure I got this right.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Higher wind speeds you typically see bucks betting or deer
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: in general betting lower intopography to get out of that
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: high wind speed.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Is that correct or at least in a fold within
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: topography to relieve themselves of that wind speed? I see.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I see that a lot when it's heavy, heavy winds,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go bottom somewhere that that afternoon and
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: oftentimes that morning.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, but a low wind speed they'll bed wherever.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little more expanded if you will, And
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: again it's not always. These are tendencies I've seen with deer.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Now to direction. You mentioned that on that one big
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: north south field you described there, you saw them bet
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: on one side of it with a certain wind direction
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and the other side of it with the other direction.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: What do you what do you attribute that to? I
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: know you mentioned it's like where they're betting, but why
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: are they betting on one side or the other? Do
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: you think it was because or did you Is it
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: your assumption that's because of the way they wanted to
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: approach the feeding, Like did they say, well, I'm going
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: to bet on this side because for me to use
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: this wind to go out and feed, I need to
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: come wet this way or is it no? Because when
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I want to go into my betting aar, I want
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: to smell my betting ear as I move into it,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: so I bet here.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: It's about when they bet it, you know, it's about
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: the morning. What was the wind doing this morning and
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: where might they have betted? You know, So it's more
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: about using the wind of a morning when they're going
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: and approaching their secure area than it is where the
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: wind's at when you go win. You know, yes, you
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: know if you thick back, well, why is he in
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: that bed? When did he get there? Wait a minute,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: what were the conditions? Win he went there? And then
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: that'll help you pan through that.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: So how do you think a buck moves into his
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: betting eear? What have you seen? I know you've watched
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: bucks go into their bedrooms before, and maybe even seen
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: them bed down. How have you seen them use win?
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of theories, there's a lot of
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: beliefs that all they always do this, they always do that.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: What have you seen?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I've I've noticed a couple of different things. One thing's
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: for sure. As a buck ages, he moves much more,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: much more slowly through the topography, and much more careful,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: and he doesn't move as far. From a linear standpoint,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: you take a buck that's five, six, seven, eight years old,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: chances are he's not moving very far. His bedrooms are
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: very distinct. And if you can get lucky enough to
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: get a pattern on a deer in previous seasons, that's
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: putting some age on Chances are you can make plans
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: the following year to take advantage of that buck's weaknesses.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: And by that, I mean he's not going to move
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: very far. His home core to me, just shrinks right
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: up when they get to six, seven, eight years old.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: They know where they've been safe in the past, and
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: they eliminate problems just like we try to eliminate problems
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: while we're hunting them. They're eliminating problems of coyotes and
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: tractors and cars, and they know where security is. So
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: that's one thing I've noticed. Younger deer seem to be
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: a little bit more random a two year old or
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: three year old buck. You watch them, watch their actions
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: when they come out into a field or when they're
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: walking through the topography. They're a little bit more careless
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: than an older buck, and they move at a much
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: faster speed because it's kind of like a I think
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: a pet lab or a pet dog. If you watch
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: them through their life. By the time they're old, they're
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: not moving a whole heck of a lot. They're spending
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: a lot more time in their bed laying down than
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: they are run and after ball that you're throwing off
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: the porch, you know. So it I think whitetails do
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: the same thing as they age. They just don't move
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: as far or as fast. But if you can find
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: where they're at and have an access point in and
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: out with the right weather conditions, you can kill there.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It's exactly what we did last night. We've killed that
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: dear for that exact reason.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, have you seen them, you know, mature bucks in particular.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Have you seen them use the wind when going into
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: their bedroom in a particular way, like some folks will
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: say they'll always win check their bed before heading in,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: or that they will j hook into their bedroom. Have
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: you seen anything like that? That's that's somewhat consistent.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Certainly, And I see them do it more frequently later
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: in the year. When you take this time in the year,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: they're not quite as spooped up, but all of a
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: sudden you put you know, coyote pressure, hunter, pressure gun seasons,
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: all these things occur. They get much more skiddage skiddish,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: and they're much more alert throughout the day than they
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: are right now. Summer patterns leading into early fall are
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: a little bit more laxadaisical. They haven't been pressured very
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: heavily yet in terms of the hunting pressure. But by
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the time you get to the end of the year,
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: they're wary and all alert and checking every wind and
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: their noses up in the air, and they'll go way
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: out of their way to check a bedroom or check
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: another buck, check other does. So they don't have to
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: do that quite as much right now because their interest
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: is different now, it's just more about food. Of course,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: they're always interested in staying safe. But once they get
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: through the rut, and they've been using that sniffer each
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: and every day, you see them use it more often
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: than you do right now.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what about when things switch up midday? So they
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: choose where they're going to bed for the day based
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: on what the wind and thermals are doing at that time,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: as they go in there and make sure they're safe.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: But then if there's like a midday significant wind switch,
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: like this cold front coming through, like for me it's
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: hitting late morning, it's actually hitting today as we're talking.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: It was southerly winds this morning, and then around like
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: nine ten o'clock, all of a sudden the storm pushed through,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: the temperature start following, and it switched to a north.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: So is that gonna do something funky to the deer
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: today where they bedded with the south, but for this evening,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden they have a north. How have
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: you seen that impact things?
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think in certain situations like
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that the weather ticks over, their urge to go feed
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: is still going to be there. And they used the
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: wind as they navigate through the terrain more so than
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: they follow, you know, go you know, into the wind
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: all day long. You know. So I think they might
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: circle a little bit to catch a wind favor, or
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: they might enter slightly different than they would have if
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: the wind had stayed the same. But it's not it's
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: not a huge, huge difference. I think they're still going
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: to enter in their entry trails and exit those you know,
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: exit trails.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen bucks shift midday where they bed
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: with a wind change. I've heard some anecdotes of peace
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: people seeing bucks that bet it on one side of
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: a ridge with X wind and then the wind switched,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: and then you know, soon after that wind switch, the
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: bucks stood up and moved fifty yards over and revetted
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: in a better wind positions.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: That certainly, when wind can do that, some sort of
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: interference like a kyot can do that, or a dog.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: And I more often than not, when you see that
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: buck on your trail cameras that's up and walking at
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: twelve thirty and nothing else is walking, I think it's
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: oftentimes something scurried around got him up, or the sun
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: aspect changed and therefore he's like, I'm going to rebt
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: so of course they'll rebt based on wind speedwind direction, sun,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: other things that get them up and cause them to rebt.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Are they going to bet a lot further away? Might
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: be fifty yards, might be two hundred yards, It might
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: not be that far, but yeah, they certainly. They certainly
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: switched beds throughout the day. I think sun does it
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: as much as anything.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Movement. You just start talking about how they kind of
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: use the wind partially throughout their day as there moving.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: And I know this is different from it's they use
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: wind in one way during the rut and then maybe
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: it's a little bit differently pre and post. But let's
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: first talk about this time, either early season or late season,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: when it is basically a bed to food existence for
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: these deer. How do you see them using the wind
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: as they move in the evening to go feed? Because again,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: there's like all of these Oftentimes people try to put
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: a rule on a deer like, hey, they're always going
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: to travel with the wind in the to their nose
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: or quartering to their face. But then I've seen bucks
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: head out into a food source with the wind at
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: their tail on occasion. But I'm curious, are there any
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: trends that you've seen enough that impact how you hunt
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: them in the evenings. Given like, hey, x wind, that
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: means they're probably going to come from this direction or
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: something like that.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: In the fact that I'm very disciplined with where I'll
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: go on what wind speed and wind direction. When I'm
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: at a spot that i've I've had for a long time,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I often see them doing the same things, if that
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: makes sense, because I'm in there on the same conditions.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Otherwise I wouldn't be going to that spot. So I
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: don't frequent spots very often in conditions that don't favor
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: my access in and out. And then while I'm sitting there,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: so I've already honed through that Otherwise I wouldn't be
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: going there. So I think as you sit and watch
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: a spot, if you can hunt it on a variety
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: of different wind directions, you might start to see, oh,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: that's the direction I need to be here in because
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: they're betting one hundred yards off the field, not fifty
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: off the field, because that betting area is a little
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: bit more secure in this wind speed. I also think
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: the weather that morning plays a huge part in how
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: far off the food they bed, So it's more about
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: weather conditions in general? How well did they move the morning?
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: I think through that all the time. So are they
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: up because it's great weather, beautiful, high pressure, They're meandering,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: going all over the place, and suddenly they've betted three
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: hundred yards off the field as opposed to just a
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: scenario where you're hunting a feet field of an evening,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: as opposed to it's hot, they're not moving very far
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: and they PLoP down fifty yards off the field. So
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I think through what what did he experience this morning?
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: You know, is he betted quite a ways off? Or
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: do I feel like he betted just off this field?
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Based on the weather conditions for us here this morning
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: we had a high pressure brning deer on their feet
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: all morning. There's no telling where they ended up betting.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be nearly as defined as what
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: we've seen the previous two weeks when it was hot,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: movement was at a minimum and they weren't moving very
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: far between bed and feed. I think that as weather
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: improves and we see more deer movement, you also see
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: a scattering approach of the of the betting because they're
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: they're just lingering longer, they're acorning they're you know, hitting masks,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: they're checking dose, they're starting to check scrapes, and suddenly
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: they're starting to move a little bit more. So I
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: see that as much as I do. You know, wind
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: speed of affecting it.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: You hear a lot about people, you know, I was
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I was just reading a book for another podcast I'm
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: working on by Roger Rothar, and he described it was
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Whitetail Magic, and it was either that or in pursuit
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: of trophy whitetails one of the two. But he described
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: in that book, and I've heard many people echo this
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: that the best setup to kill mature book is one
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: where the wind is almost wrong for you and almost
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: right the deer right. So how do you try to
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: do do you try to do that? And what does
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: that look like? Because I'm what I'm what I'm trying
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: to get at here is how you go about determining
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: how the wind is right for that buck?
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: You know. I read that book in nineteen eighty six
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: or eighty seven, and Roger Rar, Roger roth Are and
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Gene Winsel really had a huge influence on myself and
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Terry when we first started we first started Dree Outdoors
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty nine, and I was. I read through
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: those books and I had yellow markers right where I
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: was going through and making you know, comments in there
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and highlighting certain things that I wanted to remember, and
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: they were huge influences to Terry and I. But the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: one thing that I read in Roger's book, and I
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: don't know if you've gotten to that point about how
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: he would only go into a stand after like eight
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: a m. Have you gotten that?
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I read them all the way through, so yes,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I remember that.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, So that always you know, I got the premise,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: but I didn't get the premise like, man, I'm of
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: a different school and not saying Roger's wrong, because he is.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: He was killing deer, giant deer in Ohio and Illinois
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: back before anybody else got to making this popular. He
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: and Jean were way ahead of the time and their
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: theories and the things they wrote about and much of
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: it is golden standard, right, But that one I was
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: always like, Man, I want to see the woods wake up,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: and I want to have a position where I'm safe
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: that first hour or two. And how many giants have
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: you seen walking through the first fifteen to twenty minutes?
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: You know, as opposed to walking in when many of
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: the deer start to get up and be on their feet.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: So I always I always felt like that didn't detail
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: the way I wanted to hunt, especially of a morning.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: So in terms of the winds, you know, just kind
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: of right for me and kind of for the deer
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: and that type of stuff. I'm so disciplined. And it
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: goes back to the answer I gave just a little
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: bit ago. I want the wind perfect for me. I
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: want the winds and the thermals perfect for me as
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: I go in and go out, because there's such a
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: variance with wind cones, because if you look at it
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: and you go, Okay, I'm gonna hount this on a
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: northwest wind, when in reality you can spread that out
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: to ninety degrees or greater because everything on the south
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: side and everything on the east side is probably out
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: that day. Dependent on the speed. There's certain speeds that
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: are optimal for us, and there's certain speeds that are
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: optimal for the deer in terms of when they'll actually
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: move the most. So I want the wind perfect for me,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: and I'll take my chances on what the deer are doing,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: you know, because they'll move through the topography and they'll
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: they'll switch course over one cent that they catch, you know,
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: So it puts it puts white tails into the always
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: a never category. And I just like to protect myself
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: because I know this. If I'm not getting detected, I
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: have a much greater chance of success that day.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it brings to mind another quote from Roger's book,
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: which I loved, and I'm gonna paraphrase the quote. The
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: quote was so good, I'm gonna I wish I could
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: perfectly quote it. But he said something along the lines
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: of the mature whitetail buck will always do exactly whatever
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: he damn well pleases. Basically, it was coming down to
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: we always try to put always and never on a
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: white tail buck. He's always going to do this, I'll
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: always do that, but there is no there's no way
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: to actually do that. He's just gonna do whatever he
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: feels like doing in that moment, and oftentimes it will
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: surprise us. And you have to have a certain amount
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: of respect for that randomness. To a degree you do.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: And it's it's why I always talk about having the
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: access in and out and the condition's perfect for me,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: like I want it to where I don't get detected,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: because if you could go without letting deer detect you,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: you're you're going to be a very successful white to honor.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's probably the takeaway from from today's episode.
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: Do everything you can to never let them know you're there.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: If you can do that, you're going to succeed a
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: lot more than you're going to fail.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little uh, and then.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Let the deer damn. We'll do what they want right
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: and sooner or later you're going to get your shot.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say a little teaser. Next week's episode
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: for Wired to Hunt is going to be basically a
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: book report on Rogers books. I'm going to do a
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: deep dive into the lessons of Roger Roth are that
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: you know, today's generation of Hunters doesn't know anything about
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: him except for the fact that people like you or
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Don Higgins or Bill Winki mentioned his name, and all
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: of us of my generation are like, who's this guy?
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Why do they keep bringing him up? So I went
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: and found old copies of his books from used booksellers,
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: got the books, have tried to get everything I can
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: from them, and I'm going to try to share all
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: that with today's generation. So that's next week.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: On this point, we should do one on Jeen Winzil's
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: stuff too. From back in that Setuarajen and Roger were
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: both cranking out incredible, incredible information. I always loved the
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: chapter of Jean's book. I think it was One Man's
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: White Tail, and he talked about the power of thinking
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: so positively that he was able to make the deer
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: get up and move because he would think about a
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: buck coming through at eight thirty, and that's all he
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: would think about the entire morning, and then boom, a
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: buck would walk by at eight thirty. Like that chapter
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: fascinated me. But in reality, I think the moral that
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: story was just the power of a positive attitude and
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: being ready for something to happen in any second.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: That's another thing I think happens to guys so often,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: whether they're on their cell phone, whether they got other
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: thoughts in their mind, Like if you get home from
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: a hunt and you're not fairly mentally fatigue, you probably
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: weren't quite focused as much as you should be, especially
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: during the rut where the sits are longer. Like that,
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: mental focus and mental preparedness, being ready for the moment
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: at any second, because they are fleeting. When a big
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: bucks on his feet and comes by. I think about
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: the times you've seen them. They don't linger, they don't
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: You don't give you many shots. You better be ready
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: for the one chance you're gonna get, or you're gonna
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: blow it every single time.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Man, They're tough, is the truth.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: You're gonna blow it every time. So that mental preparation
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: is we talked about that in that podcast you mentioned earlier.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: So yep, you got to make sure you're a little
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: fatigued when you get done hunting.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: So so a couple more quick questions on these on
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: these little win questions I have. I think that based
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: on everything you've said so far, that you would say
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: mostly no to the question I'm about to ask you,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: But I want to confirm because I'm always thinking to myself,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I'm always trying to predict where this buck's gonna go
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: on a given day or hunt. We'll say for an evening,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: and if I have like a best guess of where
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I think he's probably better like, I will tell you
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: exactly my scenario for tonight's hunt. My target buck has
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: got a little zone that I think is probably the
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: zone he beds in the most handful of acres, a
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: couple of acres, two, three acres. I know he's not
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: there all the time, but if I had to say,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: you know, my best guess that he might be on
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: most days, I'd say he's probably bedded somewhere around here.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: But then he has food sources to the north, to
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: the south, and to the west, and I'm trying to think, Okay,
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: where do I think he's going to go tonight? And
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I'm oftentimes trying to think, you know, in some cases
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: it's the same food source. He could go north to
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: a cornfield, he goes south to a cornfielder, or he'd
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: go west to a cornfield. There's acorns in between, and
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: then there's green food plot in two different directions too,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: So he's got a lot of options in any different direction.
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: And I'm trying to sit here and think, well, how
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: do I predict which one of those directions he's going
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: to go today? And I oftentimes find myself trying to
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: use wind to help me predict that, or I wonder,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: can wind help me predict that? Have you ever found
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the wind direction be able to help you predict whether
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: he will go north, southwest, east, etc. And we've talked
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: about We've kind of talked around this a lot, but
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm wondering explicitly, does the wind direction ever
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: help you predict if a buck will go to food
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: source A or food source B or anything like that.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: I think it does, but not every day or all
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: the time. But I think it can be one of
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: those factors that helps you tilt the odds in your favor.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of factors that equal success. If you
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: look back on your successful hunts and you break down
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: everything you did, you go what all went right? Boo
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: boom boom boom boom, and anticipating where a buck might
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: move to a source. I think it's kind of like blackjack,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: if you always stay on sixteen or always hit on
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: sixteen right. It depends how you play the game. Uh, Like,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty consistent in the fact that if I go
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: the theory, I'm going to go with it over and
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again and stack the odds
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: in my favor to where it succeeds. So, in other words,
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: if you think on the north wind, I'm assuming you're
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: win switched out of the north that he's going to
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: use that win and come out the you know, one
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: side or the other. And my guess is he's probably
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: not going to use He'll squirt out the side. If
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: I had a guess, because I think they often sent
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: check stuff on their way as opposed to set checking
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: the same thing all the time. Yeah, you know so, uh,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I would my anticipation would be he's going to squirt
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: out the side as opposed to squirting going north right
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: into the wind. That would be my guest, because I
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: think he's gonna set check as he's combining that with
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: his ears and his eyes. We talk about their nose
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: a lot, but they're good at seeing and hearing, and
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: they depend on those two senses as much as they
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: do their nose. And I think that's why when you
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: when you try to bottle all this up and go
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: what's he doing in certain wins? Well, what can he
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: see in that terrain? And what can't you see? How
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: high is the wind speed? How low is the wind speed?
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: In other words, how well is he able to hear
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: or how much might he not here based on the
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: wind speed. So those other two senses, it's really a
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: trifecta in terms of what he's using to live on
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: a day and a doubt basis, and he has to
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: use all three of those every single second of the
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: of the day, year round. So it's not just wind.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: But if I had to guess partially, he's going to
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: use the wind and go out, go out one side
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: of that block or now that'd be my guess. Just
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: I hope you're right, just for a cent. That's that's
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: the way you're playing. Good, that's the.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: Way I'm playing. I'm hoping that you're right because I
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: can hunt just west of his betting area where my
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: win I'll be just just a little bit on the
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: southern side of it, and just west of it there's
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a big scrape that he's been already coming out and
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: hitting pretty frequently right off the edge of that betting
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: area is on his way to basically this spot I
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: can hunt, he will pass through an open oak stand
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: with a bunch of acorns in the ground. He could
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: then hit a green food plot just past that or
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: a cornfield right next to it. So I think there's
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: a strong chance of him wanting to use that crossing
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: wind as you described it, and hopefully either the acorns,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: the green or the corn will be something he's interested
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: in and he'll be pinching by in a little standard
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: timber back there that I can get into uniquely because
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: of the rain and the wind, today is the only
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: day I think I could safely get this close to him,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: and so I'm going to take a little bit of
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: an aggressive swing to get in there, because every other
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: day coming up is going to be crunchy and loud anyways,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: So it's a kind of a one time shot. I
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: think I have here for a while with this cold front.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: So I think it's.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Very wise and something you might do or consider is
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: looking at previous I assume you have a little history
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: with this deer from last year. Ye look at some
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: of those nights he went that way. Go into deer
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: Cast Past, which is a new feature for us on
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: deer Cast, and go I love it. What were the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: conditions the days he did that? You know, because dear
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: cast pass well, you go in and enter the date
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: that you're looking for. You can enter any date going
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: back three years and it'll tell you the conditions that day,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden you match up where
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: he's going and with a condition and when that repeats,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: trust me, they'll they'll do the same thing. They're very
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: repetitive and redundant from that standpoint if nothing else affects them.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I love the fact that you guys added that.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: That's been something that I've wanted for years for you
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: guys to have since since you know, in particular, you
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: and Terry have been such advocates for looking back in
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: the past and that you know, so I've had to
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: always use the Weather Underground website to find the stuff.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: Now that you guys have it there in the app,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm a happy camp. So thanks for adding that.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: You put the data and it spits out all the
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: factors for that day. It's it's pretty cool.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's terrific. Real quick wind use by deer during
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: the rut, either using wind to check dobetting and feeding
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: area and or scrapes. Those are three different things that
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: you oftentimes hear people saying, well, deer will use the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: wind to check one of those three things, doze on food,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: doze in the bed, or a scrape. How important has
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: that been for you when setting up and what are
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: the specifics of what you've actually seen.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: It's it's very important because I think they probably use
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: that sniffer a little bit more then than they do
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: any other time. It's like a dog trying to find
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: a rabbit, or a blood tracking deer trying to or
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: butt blood tracking dog trying to find a deer. And
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: I learned so much about deer by hunting and tracking
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: with tracker John and his bloodhounds and just watching how
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: they work the terrain and figure out the scent not
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: necessarily in the wind or the thermos, but set that's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: on a twig or a branch. And I see deer
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: doing a lot of the same things that I've witnessed
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: those dogs doing as they're trying to track a deer.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: So when it comes down to them this time of
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: the year, they're a little bit lazier, a little bit slower.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: They're going one of the food source. Then they're coming
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: back as we get into late October and their mind switches,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: their attention span switches, they start using that nose owes
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: so much more. It's a totally different ballgame. It's like
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: hunting a different species, if you will, than the one
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: you're hunting now. It's one of the reasons we did
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: thirteen because there's so many different light switch events where
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: the deer just changed drastically their demeanor and what they're
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: doing and how they're interacting. And I think as you
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: get into the rut, it's all about that nose and
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: all about set checking and covering ground and trying to
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: jump that rabbit, if you will. A couple of things
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: I've watched dear do consistently. Number One, you get into
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: the rut and you see all that movement at seven
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: thirty five to about or seven thirty to about eight
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: forty five or so nine o'clock and the rest of
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: the herd beds down. It gets a little slow, and
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: then boom, the mature bucks are up on their feet,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: and then there's zig zag and all those betting areas,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: they're checking all those trails. They wait for all the
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: other deer to bed down, and then they go those
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: betting areas and check what just occurred. If they're without
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: a dough, they're looking for a dough and they're gonna
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: go find one, and they're smart enough to wait until
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: the does are all down and then they go check them.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: I've watched them do that. The other thing, they are
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: creatures of edge, and if you I love hunting edge,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: whether it's a thick cover inside of a big block
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: of timber, or it's the hardwood edge on the on
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: the downside of a betting area. The same place we
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: want to be is often where they want to be.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: But you got to be a little further down wind
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: than they are. And just watch through time, where do
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: these deer downwind this betting area? How far are they?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Are they just inside and the transitional zone or are
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: they out here on this field edge? Can I mow
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: a path that perhaps incentivizes them to use the edge?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: Could I put a path just inside the woods to incentifie,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: incentivize movement there? And through time you'll catch how they're
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: using the terrain and the wind during certain phases of
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: the rut, and then you it could be just a
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: little further downwind than they are. Same thing with scrape lines,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: same thing with just about everything. They'll downwind everything throughout
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: the rut, So you want to be on that same
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: down wind side. So it does work, but you can't
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: be so far down when you're out of the game.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Like I always felt like during the rut, if I
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: could fool seventy five percent of the noses and get
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: caught by about twenty five percent, I was pretty close
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: to where I need to be within the terrain to
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: take advantage of it and kill a big buck. Sometimes
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: that guy's going to be in the twenty five percent,
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: but oftentimes he's in that seventy five percent. Because one
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: thing about being caught by a deer this time of
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: the year, I think it is far more detrimental to
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: your overall hunt right now to get caught by a
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: dough Domino's everything back. It's it's really bad in December, man,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: there's so many deer. It doesn't take much to convince
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: the whole herd to get up and domino back. But
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: during the rut, can spook a deer, and ten minutes later,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: because they're covering more ground, a new deer comes along,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: especially if there's wind speed where it's covering a lot
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: of what's going on. So I always relied on that
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: seventy five twenty five rule when I'm when I'm run hunting,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: you know, if I have a few deer get down
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: on to me, I'm not that tore up about it
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: because it tells me I'm right on the edge of
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: where I want to be.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: That's that's really helpful. I found myself many a time
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: standing in the woods, debating exactly which tree to pick
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: and thinking, oh, geez, this is the right spot to be,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: but you know, there's a twenty percent chance that one
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: of them might slip back on that one spot there,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: And then back and forth between like do I need
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: to be absolutely wind proof but off the ax a
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: little bit, or right on the ax but be a
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: little bit exposed. And it sounds like you're willing to
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: take a little exposure to make sure you're on the X.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: During the rut type setups this time of the year,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: I want I want zero percent because it's going to
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: ruin the whole hunt. Yeah, during November, call it October
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: twenty fifth or Thanksgiving that month, I'm a little bit
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: it more. I'm getting in their face a little bit more.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: I've had I've had pretty good success getting getting in
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: there a little tighter now. I don't want to be
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: right dead center in the middle of all the activity
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: or there's deer blowing you all day. But if I have,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: you know, if you see five deer and one of
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: them catches in the other the other four dome, I
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: think you're probably in a pretty good, pretty good spot.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: All right, last wind question of the day talk a
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: bunch about deer getting down wind you, and you alluded
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: to this earlier, but one of the risks of calling
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: is that you might cause a deer to downwind you, because,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, oftentimes that's what they do. They hear
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: something they're interested in and then they want to circle
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: down wind of it. Given that, how do you think
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: about wind and that tendency to downwind you when you're
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: trying to call out a buck? How do you come
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: for that?
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: The older I get, the less I call, but the
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: more success I have when I'm calling. So I'm I'm
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: choosing my darts right. I won't throw a dart at
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: him until I know that he's in the right place, mood,
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: the right position, and I've got the right area for
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: him to come and approach my stand. Oftentimes it's on
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: a day where the weather is ideal. They're in a
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: better mood those days, and they're more likely to respond
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: to a call, and the lighter I call. I used
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: to get out there and bang those antlers in every
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: thirty minutes I try to get them. You know, is
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: there a buck that's come within your range? And boom?
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Then circle way down when because they're trying to figure
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: out who's fighting. And then I don't rattle a terrible
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: amount anymore. I do a lot of soft grunts. Snort
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: weeze is probably my go to. I've called more deer
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: in with a snort weez than any of the call.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: It's kind of that that little warning shop. You could
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: give a deer and kind of play on his ego
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit and see if he comes over there
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: and check you out. You know. Decoying is kind of
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: the same theory. But I just don't. I don't call
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: a lot. But if I see the right buck in
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the right position, I will try them, and I generally
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: have pretty good success.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: So what's the right position to make sure that they
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: don't win? You? Does it have to be.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Nearby the state up wind with a decent path for
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: him to get to me. If he's if he's at
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: my ninety, I'm not even I ain't even considering it,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: you know, unless he's really in a good food you know,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: if he looks like he's ready to fight at that second,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: I'll hit him a little bit and hope that he
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: comes straight to my tree. Or if it's a really
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: mature deer, that is the difference, Like if it's a
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: you know, it depends on the population dynamics in the area.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: But if you know there's two or three monsters in
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: the area are really matured deer, uh, and then there's
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: a three or four year old that you'd still shoot.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: Chances are the three or four year old, if he
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: hears a call, he's got that other big bully deer
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: or those other big shooters on his mind. He's not
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: coming straight to you, you know, Whereas if you see
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: the big bully deer, he might come straight to you
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: because he's the king in the area. So it depends
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: on the population dynamics in the area as well. You know.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: I've seen herds where there are no big mature deer,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: best deer in the herds of three year old, and
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: he'll come straight to you, you know. But if there's
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: some big ones out there that's on the back of
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: his mind, because chances are he's already run into him,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: and chances are he already knows his his level in
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: the pecking order.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Mark, I feel like you've armed me, as
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: always with a few new ideas, a lot of new
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: ideas and things to just continue to stew on which
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: I will be doing today after slipping in during this
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: reign and setting up right next to a big Bucks
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: bedroom for an early October strike, taking a taking an
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: early swing given this cold front. So we'll see, if
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: we'll see if I've got a good story to share
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: with the time.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you're in the right place. I hope,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: I hope you're killing Do you have self cams in
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: that area? Do you know he's in that bedroom?
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: I do, he's been. I have daylight or like just
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: off the edge of daylight photos of him five days
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: in October already, So five out of the last seven days,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: I have a daylight of him in this zone, not
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: not like all of them. I think two or three
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: of those were on the edge of that bedroom, and
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: then two of them were in food sources, just you know,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: off out of it. So he's definitely in that zone.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: He's right there somewhere. I mean, if he's not on
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: the walk about, he should be close this evening. You know,
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: whether you're daylight or not. You do have a late
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: rising moon. Last night was the last rising moon that
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: I felt like was optimum. The later it rises as
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: we go into the full moon, I find the later
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: that they the later that they move, So it won't
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: surprise me if he's a touch late for you this evening.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I hope he's not. But last night was the last
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: really good night. Tonight, it's not bad. It rises I
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: think close to about seven pm, so it's not terrible.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I would have typically hunted him not
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: as close to his bedroom as I'm going to get tonight.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: I've had hunted him closer to the food source he's
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: been hitting the most. But I just got to thinking, man,
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: with his cold weather and the fact that I have
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: this one rainy, windy day, this is the only day
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: I could try to get closer to him. Otherwise there's
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: no way I could do it. I'd be so loud
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: to be impossible. So my thought was, why don't we
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: try one time to get a little bit closer in there,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: right where it's happening, where these pictures have been that
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: I that I wouldn't have been able to get any
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: other day in October so far, and looking at the forecast,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: I don't see any other days I could try that.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: So maybe take advantage of this unique set of circumstances.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: And you know, as it does, probably doesn't work out
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: because they're dear and they're gonna do what they damn
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: well please.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: But maybe I hope you kill him. Send me a
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: picture what you do.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: I will try mark before I let you go. There
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: are a number of cool new things with the deer
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: Cast app that you guys have been working on. You
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: touched on deer Cast past, which I was so excited
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: about I had to just text you, like in pure
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: Joy the other day, I'm so happy when it's not that,
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: But can you tell us about anything else new with
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: the app or anything else with One of the other.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: Cool things I think is it lays out the information.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Just from an organizational standpoint. We now have the list
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: view where you can see all fourteen days boom ba boom,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: and you can like this prediction, uh last night. We've
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: been waiting for two weeks for it because we could
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: see it out there at the tail end, and day
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: by day it would get closer and you know, it
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: said slow all the way up to yesterday, and what
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: do you know, you know, Wade kills this giant. So
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: that list view I think helps you play in your
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: schedule a little bit better, like, oh, there's there's my
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: green out there in about you know, ten days. I've
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: got to make sure I'm available right then as opposed
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: to paging through it. So I do like that. The
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: three D you know, topography that we put into our
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: maps is fantastic. I'm still a huge fan of the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: rain stations. I want to know how much rain I got.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: The wind checker, I think is the best one out
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: there in the industry. You know, put it on your
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: spot and it'll show you what the wind's doing, and
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: the wind cones, how they change with the wind speed.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: You know, all the other little bells and whistles. It's
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: it's amazing. Deer cast is as accurate as it's ever been.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: It's as useful as it's ever been. And now with
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: deer cast past, I mean, and and of course the
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: you know, the ability to help you when you need
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: it the most, the tracking, you know, deer cast track,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's just nothing else like it. Like Terry
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: and I sat down and we were like, what do
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: we want to solve for hunters, Like we're deer hunters.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: How do we solve these problems? And that's what dear
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: cast is just a bunch of problems solving from our
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: minds to put it all together. So it's a very
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: rich app right now in terms of white tone knowledge.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not blowing smoke up your tail. I
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: am a real paying user who has benefited from it
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: a lot ever since you guys launched it. So thanks
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: for putting that together because it is a great tool.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that mark. That's high praise. Thank you.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Of course, anything else from Drew Outdoors we should know
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: about right now as far as content, YouTube channel, anything
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: else or should we just keep on following the YouTube
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: channel and Socialist absolutely.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, of course, our television shows are all airing
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: right now, Bow Madness and Critical Mass and thirteen, and
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: we're cranking out content right now. The semi live stuff
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: on Deer season twenty five is just awesome. Jeff Propes
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: just kill a giant moose up of the Yukon. They're
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: working on our Catcher dream episode that we had with Will,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: They're working on My Missouri Buck. They will start on
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: Wade's Missouri Buck, and all that stuff will come out
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: here in the next few days. So all of it's
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: in my live. It hits dear cast first, and I'm
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: very abbreviated version and then it'll be a full story
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: on on YouTube and dear cast here within generally within
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: a week of when when the animal hits the ground.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: So our views are very good. I want to thank
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: everybody that takes the time to watch them, or if
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: you've downloaded dear cast, thank you so much. And of
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: course you can always follow us on Instagram and Facebook
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: and Twitter as well or x well.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's always changing. But hey, Mark, thank you so
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: much for taking the time to do this, to have
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: this chat after a late night last night, and I'm
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: sure I'm guessing you're probably off to another spot tonight
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: with this weather continuing to be pretty good. So thank you,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: Thank you for everything.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: Mark. Absolutely, I got my mom in camp and I'm
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: taking mom out tonight, so that's going to be a blast.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: We will through this whole, this whole podcast.
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: She did, ye, there's Lucille all.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you for very educational. It was I am interesting.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: I hope for the best, but.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Whatever it will be, this is true. That is that's amazing,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: that's the best.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: She's ninety two and a half. So I mentioned she
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: was ninety two the other day. She said and a half.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: So she's ninety two and a half and we're climbing
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: up into a box lind this evening. You know, ten foot,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: she's gonna climb that ladder, get up there. She goes
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: through physical therapy daily where she lives. She's an independent
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: living there in Saint Louis, and she makes us also proud.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Well, I wish you and Lucille amazing luck tonight.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you guys are able to do this.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that the whole family's in town, so have
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Thanks Mark, I appreciate your own.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, you're welcome. A great evening, all right, and
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: that's going to wrap it up. I hope you enjoyed
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: this one. I found it fascinating. As I mentioned at
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: the top, go listen to the rest of those Marjory episodes.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: The patterning dear one and the predicting movement based on
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: factors like wind, weather, bear, metric pressure, moon all that.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Those are a couple of my absolute favorites. Truly fascinating.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: Check them out. Thanks for being here, Good luck on
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: your next hunts. Until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.