Latest / May The Review Be With You / It's OZ FEST: Wicked and the Oz films reviewed

Transcript

It's OZ FEST: Wicked and the Oz films reviewed · May The Review Be With You

0:00
Speaker 1: Nick, you you got any kind of guess as to
0:02
Speaker 1: how many books Cannon books are in the OZ Yeah?
0:06
Speaker 2: Books, five, twenty.
0:09
Speaker 1: No, it's too low. That's too low. That's too low.
0:13
Speaker 2: Listen, we're not doing we shouldn't do this, we shouldn't
0:15
Speaker 2: do that. This is now an OZ Universe podcast. We
0:19
Speaker 2: will no longer be talking about anything else. It'll take
0:21
Speaker 2: us four years ago through forty books.
0:24
Speaker 1: Hello to the review, be with you with Nick and Joe.
0:28
Speaker 1: I'm Joe, I'm Nick.
0:30
Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to oz Fest today. We are talking about
0:33
Speaker 2: three beloved Wizard of Oz oz verse films. Of course,
0:37
Speaker 2: the original Wizard of Oz. We're talking about Oz the
0:40
Speaker 2: Great and Powerful, and then more recently Wicked. Can't leave
0:45
Speaker 2: out Wicked. So we're gonna go through all three of
0:48
Speaker 2: these films, talk about, you know, what we liked but
0:50
Speaker 2: we didn't like, some similarities, some of the differences, and
0:54
Speaker 2: uh yeah, we're gonna kick things off. Joe, where are
0:57
Speaker 2: we starting?
0:58
Speaker 1: If ever there was a Wiz, there was Wizard of
1:00
Speaker 1: Oz is one because because, because, because, because, because, dude.
1:04
Speaker 1: That has been ringing in my head for like a
1:07
Speaker 1: solid week now.
1:09
Speaker 2: I've been defying gravity for a couple of days.
1:11
Speaker 1: So you tell me which is a catch your tune.
1:16
Speaker 1: To be honest, I mean, defind gravity way more impressive vocals.
1:19
Speaker 1: But god damn they knew how to make an earworm
1:21
Speaker 1: back in nineteen thirty nine.
1:22
Speaker 2: Oh man, listen, nineteen thirty nine. The damn movie still
1:27
Speaker 2: holds up. It's freaking fantastic. Now, granted it's weird as hell.
1:31
Speaker 1: Like, oh oh yeah, there's no denying.
1:34
Speaker 2: That that film, it's weird. It's the weirdest one of
1:37
Speaker 2: all of them. Maybe it's because it was the first one.
1:39
Speaker 2: But Wizard of Oz nineteen thirty nine, the og strange,
1:43
Speaker 2: What a strange film.
1:47
Speaker 1: As Nick said, it is oz Fest. We're diving into
1:50
Speaker 1: all of these beloved movies. Well, at least two of
1:52
Speaker 1: them are beloved. I actually don't know about Oz the
1:54
Speaker 1: Great and Powerful. How beloved that is universally, but we
1:57
Speaker 1: are going to dive into it as part of oz Fest.
2:01
Speaker 1: But before we do, Nick just talking about Oz in
2:05
Speaker 1: general real quick here. I don't know how many people
2:10
Speaker 1: know this. If you are an OZ fan, you probably
2:12
Speaker 1: are very aware of this. But if the Wizard of
2:15
Speaker 1: Oz and Wicked are about as far as you go,
2:18
Speaker 1: it might surprise you as it did me to find
2:20
Speaker 1: out just how many OZ books there are. Nick, you
2:25
Speaker 1: got any kind of guess as to how many books
2:28
Speaker 1: of cannon books are in the OZ? Yeah? Books, alight?
2:33
Speaker 1: Twenty No, it's too low. That's too low. That's too low.
2:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, we're not doing We shouldn't do this, we
2:40
Speaker 2: shouldn't do that. If there's twenty books and we're talking
2:43
Speaker 2: about three movies, that means well, there's probably more movies
2:46
Speaker 2: than we even can get. How many books are there, Joe.
2:50
Speaker 1: So canonical books forty? There are forty canonical books, and
2:57
Speaker 1: not all of them. Not all of them are by
2:59
Speaker 1: Frank from the original writer both I think like fourteen
3:02
Speaker 1: of them or so are. But like his family and
3:04
Speaker 1: like other folks that were trusted with the UH with
3:07
Speaker 1: the property. Added to all of that, there are non
3:11
Speaker 1: canon books that that keep the Loure going in crazy ways.
3:15
Speaker 1: For what I understand, OZ is just so whatever, howevery
3:19
Speaker 1: big you think OZ is, it's bigger than that. You know,
3:23
Speaker 1: it's certainly bigger than I ever realize.
3:25
Speaker 2: That's insane. Uh. This is now an OZ Universe podcast.
3:29
Speaker 2: We will no longer be talking about anything else. It'll
3:31
Speaker 2: take us four years ago through forty books plus the
3:34
Speaker 2: non canon ones.
3:37
Speaker 1: You know, if there are any OZ fans, like true
3:40
Speaker 1: diehard OZ fans that are listening to this, you know,
3:43
Speaker 1: just tell us, you know what, what are What are
3:45
Speaker 1: the best books in the series? Which ones like should
3:47
Speaker 1: we actually read? I went through summaries just on Wikipedia
3:50
Speaker 1: really quick, just skimming through them. It did not seem
3:53
Speaker 1: like all of them were winners. I'm not trying to
3:55
Speaker 1: hurt any feelings. Let me know if I am wrong
3:57
Speaker 1: in the most gentle way that you can. But yeah,
4:01
Speaker 1: OZ is freaking huge. So Frank Brown came out with
4:07
Speaker 1: the first book nineteen oh oh, nineteen hundred is the
4:12
Speaker 1: first book. We fast forward into our first movie, The
4:16
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz nineteen thirty nine. And as Nick had
4:20
Speaker 1: pointed out, this movie, I think the best way to
4:23
Speaker 1: talk about this movie and by reviewing it, Nick is
4:26
Speaker 1: reviewing it in today's standards, as you were talking about,
4:29
Speaker 1: because like, what could honestly be said about this movie
4:33
Speaker 1: that hasn't already been freaking said, you know, as a
4:37
Speaker 1: technological marvel of the end of the thirties and the
4:41
Speaker 1: beginning of the forties, the technice color technique that was
4:44
Speaker 1: going on. It's truly a marvel The set design, which Nick,
4:48
Speaker 1: I'm going to let you dive into that I know
4:51
Speaker 1: that's your forte is awesome. It still looks great. Yeah,
4:57
Speaker 1: I'm going to get into some of my quips about
4:59
Speaker 1: just how this movie stacks up in the modern era
5:02
Speaker 1: in a little bit, but Nick, I'm gonna turn over
5:05
Speaker 1: just the tech and the set design to you because
5:08
Speaker 1: i know that's your world.
5:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, so great, call, Like the technicolor thing was obviously
5:14
Speaker 2: very revolutionary back then in nineteen thirty nine. Upon rewatching
5:18
Speaker 2: the film, it really is cool to see the beginning
5:22
Speaker 2: in that gray scale black and white, and then of
5:25
Speaker 2: course once Dorothy's arise in Oz, you just get this
5:29
Speaker 2: like splash of color that really hits you. And now
5:32
Speaker 2: we know that this is coming. Right, we're rewatching this film.
5:35
Speaker 2: It had been a while since I've seen it. But
5:37
Speaker 2: even though you know that you're about to get just
5:39
Speaker 2: round color.
5:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, that front door opening, it is still still golden.
5:44
Speaker 1: It's golden.
5:44
Speaker 2: It's still just res you, like in the coolest way,
5:47
Speaker 2: and it just immediately I'm like, man, it must have
5:49
Speaker 2: been so cool to watch this for the first time.
5:51
Speaker 2: Like it's such a awesome way. Yeah, it's such an
5:54
Speaker 2: awesome way to tell the story. Introduce, like how much
5:57
Speaker 2: different this place is that Dorothy hit like essentially like
6:01
Speaker 2: landed herself. Now talking about some cool like effects. Obviously,
6:05
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine not a lot of not a lot
6:07
Speaker 2: of CGI and visual effects possible in nineteen thirty nine
6:10
Speaker 2: from a computer standpoint. Let's just be obvious there.
6:14
Speaker 1: But most people would have asked you what a computer
6:16
Speaker 1: is at that point exactly.
6:18
Speaker 2: But some cool things. The tornado, that tornado sequence at
6:21
Speaker 2: the beginning still holds up really cool, like has like
6:25
Speaker 2: a little terrifying aspect to it. It's not Twister esque,
6:29
Speaker 2: but it's it's close.
6:31
Speaker 1: I almost wonder though, I did think about Twister because
6:33
Speaker 1: like you know, the moment where you see the cow
6:35
Speaker 1: flying up. I was wondering, like in retro like is
6:38
Speaker 1: when Twister did that? Was that a reference to the
6:41
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz? Like it almost feels like it is.
6:43
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll have to look that up. That's a good point.
6:45
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of things that are probably
6:47
Speaker 2: seldomly a reference to Wizard of Oz. It was so
6:49
Speaker 2: iconic at the time.
6:50
Speaker 1: So I mean even still right. It's one of the
6:53
Speaker 1: most influential movies in American cinema, maybe even world cinema
6:57
Speaker 1: of all time.
6:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really just like fantastic. And that tornado scene
7:03
Speaker 2: was done using a thirty five foot muslin stocking. I'm
7:08
Speaker 2: sure I'm saying that wrong, but it's like a thirty
7:10
Speaker 2: five foot stocking attached to a huge crane which was
7:14
Speaker 2: mounted to a car that was on a track below,
7:19
Speaker 2: and then they were using like wind and dirt and
7:21
Speaker 2: smoke effects to create like the realistic swirling tornado. Like
7:25
Speaker 2: I mean, just like ridiculous. Everything I just said doesn't
7:27
Speaker 2: even make sense because now you can just do.
7:29
Speaker 1: It with it, is what? Because like all right, so,
7:34
Speaker 1: like I really don't mean anything against digital designers. The
7:40
Speaker 1: things that that they are able to create truly amazing.
7:46
Speaker 1: Marvel pay your goddamn designers. But but the things that
7:50
Speaker 1: they were able to accomplish with our computers, like like
7:53
Speaker 1: the artistry, artistry increased when you have to stretch your
7:57
Speaker 1: brain a little bit, right right right, you were you
8:00
Speaker 1: were limited as to the things that you could do,
8:03
Speaker 1: and therefore, like the way that you had to accomplish
8:05
Speaker 1: it was it just felt like the creative process was
8:09
Speaker 1: so much more impressive. Yeah I don't want it. I
8:14
Speaker 1: feel bad saying yes, but you know what I mean.
8:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like today, like there's CGI and a
8:18
Speaker 2: lot of visual effects with computers that look awesome, and
8:20
Speaker 2: they and helped the films out, But there's something about
8:23
Speaker 2: the extra like work that it had that it takes
8:26
Speaker 2: to build the sets and to think creatively about how
8:29
Speaker 2: to make something look real without just using a computer.
8:33
Speaker 2: And like those like sweat and tears from creators and
8:36
Speaker 2: designers like show through in the film and the actors
8:41
Speaker 2: know that and they feel it too when they're on
8:42
Speaker 2: those sets. And like in nineteen thirty nine they built
8:45
Speaker 2: munchkin Land. It was on like a back lot that
8:48
Speaker 2: was like six and a half acres.
8:50
Speaker 1: They built this whole thing.
8:51
Speaker 2: It's like insane. Emerald City was created using like a
8:55
Speaker 2: combination of sets and like matte paintings, which like most
8:59
Speaker 2: of nineteen thirty nine was done with like some sets
9:02
Speaker 2: on large scale, on small scale and with paintings thrown
9:05
Speaker 2: in there, so like really cool like and at times
9:08
Speaker 2: it almost felt like a play while you're watching this film, right,
9:11
Speaker 2: because of how they were building these sets and.
9:14
Speaker 1: Hey, before we move on. For that point, I would
9:16
Speaker 1: argue that, like, yeah, it it did feel like a
9:19
Speaker 1: play because like at the time, I think that's where
9:22
Speaker 1: like a lot of like artistry expertise came from right,
9:27
Speaker 1: Like you can tell like so much of the actors
9:29
Speaker 1: I'm blinking on his name, but the guy who plays
9:31
Speaker 1: the Cowardly Lion like especially, really comes across as like
9:35
Speaker 1: a theatrical thespian. Yeah, you know, yeah, so like yeah,
9:38
Speaker 1: if it feels like you're watching a play, it's it's
9:40
Speaker 1: definitely because so many of those creatives came from that world.
9:43
Speaker 2: A lot of backdrops, rear projection, things like that, for sure.
9:46
Speaker 2: So but it all it all really honestly, like it
9:51
Speaker 2: still holds up. Like there is a weirdness to The
9:54
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz, which I think is by design. There's
9:57
Speaker 2: a strange a strangeness there, but from an effect perspective,
10:02
Speaker 2: it's really well done and it still holds up, and
10:04
Speaker 2: it makes it enjoyable to watch even now.
10:06
Speaker 1: Yes, and you know, just to harken on that history
10:09
Speaker 1: just just a teensy bit more, I was not aware
10:13
Speaker 1: that when The Wizard of Oz first came out, it
10:17
Speaker 1: was it was nominated for Best Picture, it did not win,
10:20
Speaker 1: and really after after its release, it really didn't have
10:26
Speaker 1: a huge traction or a huge following for a long
10:29
Speaker 1: time until the nineteen fifties when television became much more
10:33
Speaker 1: accessible to America and that movie premiered in color and
10:40
Speaker 1: it was reintroduced to America and it became this this
10:44
Speaker 1: darling of American cinema on television, and it is today
10:48
Speaker 1: apparently the most watched film of all time. And like,
10:53
Speaker 1: when I think about that, crazy, I think, like, as
10:56
Speaker 1: a child growing in the nineties, Like I think about
10:58
Speaker 1: how like how often I would see The Wizard of
11:00
Speaker 1: Oz like playing on TNT or like ABC or CBS,
11:05
Speaker 1: like all the time. Like Wizard of Oz was one
11:07
Speaker 1: of those things that I would never like, like I
11:10
Speaker 1: sat down watched the whole thing once, but then like
11:13
Speaker 1: over years I would see different scenes of it and
11:16
Speaker 1: just like have seen the movie multiple times as a
11:18
Speaker 1: result of that.
11:19
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's a great point. Did not realize it
11:22
Speaker 2: was the most watched of all time. That makes sense though,
11:25
Speaker 2: But man, like it's it was like required viewing when
11:31
Speaker 2: we were growing up, But like, what's your what is
11:32
Speaker 2: it still required viewing? You know, like, what are people
11:35
Speaker 2: watching now? Right? Are they just watching Wicked? Like I
11:38
Speaker 2: would love to know what the younger people, like, you know,
11:42
Speaker 2: what's a fourteen year old? Are they like being forced
11:44
Speaker 2: to watch the original Wizard of Oz? Like are they
11:47
Speaker 2: kicking and screaming as they're like hitting play?
11:51
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, that's that's a great question. I want to
11:53
Speaker 1: believe that. I mean, like, I think that this movie
11:55
Speaker 1: is still incredibly watchable by today's standards, Agreed, And I
11:59
Speaker 1: almost wonder, like how many parents, like have their kids
12:02
Speaker 1: watch this movie? It is so influential, right, and like
12:06
Speaker 1: you can see like little references of it across all media,
12:10
Speaker 1: but like huge references of it too, right, Like yeah,
12:13
Speaker 1: we just saw Agatha all along back in October, right,
12:17
Speaker 1: and like most of that was referencing the Wizard of Oz, right,
12:22
Speaker 1: all Wizard?
12:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, so huge and pop culture still for sure huge.
12:28
Speaker 1: Okay, So comparing it by modern day standards, yeah, it's
12:33
Speaker 1: still extremely watchable. But man, you were not kidding, Nick,
12:36
Speaker 1: This movie is so freaking weird. It's so much weirder
12:39
Speaker 1: than I remembered. It's insane. It's honestly insane. They're like
12:43
Speaker 1: and it's like it's the little things. It's the little
12:45
Speaker 1: things that come off as like insane, like, for example,
12:50
Speaker 1: cowardly Lyon when the Wizard of Oz big Head tells
12:53
Speaker 1: them they got to go kill the witch, right, just
12:56
Speaker 1: go kill the witch? Right, which already like, okay, Dorothy
13:00
Speaker 1: supposed to be a ten year old girl, which like,
13:03
Speaker 1: all right, real quick before I get on the insanity.
13:06
Speaker 1: Here Dorothy Judy Garland Darling, she is Dorothy. I absolutely
13:12
Speaker 1: love her as Dorothy, but like, I find it so
13:14
Speaker 1: funny that Dorothy's supposed to be a ten year old girl.
13:18
Speaker 1: Judy Garling is sixteen. Apparently Shirley Temple was supposed to
13:22
Speaker 1: play Dorothy at ten years old. The deal didn't go through,
13:27
Speaker 1: so they gave it to Judy Garland, who was sixteen.
13:29
Speaker 1: They did not rewrite the part for a sixteen year
13:32
Speaker 1: old girl, and you can tell because they all treat
13:34
Speaker 1: her like she's this baby. And it's wild to me
13:39
Speaker 1: that like this is grown almost grown woman is being
13:43
Speaker 1: handled like she's glass. Anyway, Yeah, so tell the girl
13:48
Speaker 1: made of glass to go freaking kill the witch. Cowardly
13:51
Speaker 1: Lyon jumps out the window in response to this. Do
13:55
Speaker 1: you remember he runs from the Wizard and jumps out
13:58
Speaker 1: the window. In the very next scene, it's the four
14:00
Speaker 1: of them just walking in the forest, as if that
14:02
Speaker 1: didn't just happen. No big deal, no big deal. Also,
14:05
Speaker 1: what I love about that when they're walking, they all
14:07
Speaker 1: they're all armed. Scarecrow is carrying a pistol, he's holding
14:13
Speaker 1: an actual gun. This movie, I assume this movie meant
14:20
Speaker 1: was meant to be funny. God damn that it's hysterical.
14:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, ridiculous. Also, you mentioned you mentioning that she was
14:30
Speaker 2: supposed to be you know that didn't rewrite it for
14:33
Speaker 2: a sixteen year old. That made the beginning scene with
14:37
Speaker 2: the fortune Teller even creepier, right right, like so creepy. Uh.
14:44
Speaker 2: But back to like the Gang of Travelers here on
14:48
Speaker 2: the Yellowick Road, tin Man the scene where that he
14:52
Speaker 2: needs oil and they're like, we gotta put oil, like
14:55
Speaker 2: to make him move. Like I love that scene, and
15:03
Speaker 2: I think the ten Men's probably my favorite of all
15:05
Speaker 2: those characters. But it's just such a strange. It's strange,
15:11
Speaker 2: you know, like like what's like the like how did
15:16
Speaker 2: it even get there? Like why are we putting oil
15:19
Speaker 2: on this? Give me the why?
15:24
Speaker 1: I will say, even as a kid, I've always loved
15:28
Speaker 1: the sound effect that they used for the oil drum.
15:32
Speaker 1: It's like pumping like that. I don't know why. There's
15:36
Speaker 1: something about that that like tickles my brain, like perfectly good.
15:41
Speaker 2: And then much land, like super impressive set like we
15:44
Speaker 2: already talked about, but like so weird, and it doesn't
15:52
Speaker 2: get like less weird throughout the years. It doubles down
15:55
Speaker 2: when they make the other movies, like it gets weirder,
15:58
Speaker 2: you know, like which we'll get to those.
16:01
Speaker 1: But yeah, if if we're you know, looking at just
16:06
Speaker 1: like things of the movie that you know we maybe
16:09
Speaker 1: could have been better, maybe that's unfair to apply that
16:12
Speaker 1: criticism from twenty twenty five, right, Well, to be fair,
16:15
Speaker 1: there's really not much I would criticize in this movie.
16:19
Speaker 1: My biggest thing is like it sometimes the way it
16:22
Speaker 1: cuts the scenes are a little jagged, right, Like you know,
16:26
Speaker 1: someone will be facing this direction and then it'll cut
16:28
Speaker 1: to a scene and they're all a sudden over here
16:30
Speaker 1: right right, But like I don't know, it kind of
16:33
Speaker 1: gets a pass I guess because it's nineteen thirty nine,
16:34
Speaker 1: they're still evolving film techniques, right, It's.
16:37
Speaker 2: Like a nineteen thirty nine problem, Like that's just how
16:39
Speaker 2: they couldn't do anything else.
16:41
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I imagine doing reshoots back then must have
16:45
Speaker 1: been even worse than trying to do that now.
16:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I forget about it, you know. But yeah, like
16:51
Speaker 2: not really a lot of like improvement notes either. I mean,
16:53
Speaker 2: it's just it's too old and iconic to like they
16:55
Speaker 2: should it on this, they should have it on that.
16:57
Speaker 1: Like I think it really it really comes down to
17:00
Speaker 1: the digestibility of this film. And like I think the
17:03
Speaker 1: older this movie gets, the weirder it becomes, yes, which
17:07
Speaker 1: almost makes it more lovable.
17:08
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, although I will say, like I don't think
17:11
Speaker 2: I'll ever understand why Dorothy wanted to go home. I mean,
17:14
Speaker 2: they try to tell you that, like it's about you know,
17:16
Speaker 2: she's going to miss our loved ones and her family.
17:17
Speaker 2: But like, listen, you spend that much time in Oz
17:21
Speaker 2: and then you want to go back to Kansas where
17:23
Speaker 2: there's tornadoes in that small ass house with like seven relatives.
17:27
Speaker 2: Ain't no way, as we'll find out in the next film,
17:32
Speaker 2: Oz had it right. End up in Oz. Don't go
17:37
Speaker 2: back to Oklahoma or Kansas or wherever the hell you're
17:40
Speaker 2: from in the Midwest.
17:42
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you brought this up, because it was
17:44
Speaker 1: the first time I've ever watched this movie and this
17:46
Speaker 1: thought had occurred to me. Where she she wakes up,
17:50
Speaker 1: of course, and you know the no place like home
17:52
Speaker 1: and you were there, and you were there and you
17:54
Speaker 1: were there, right, like we all know that scene very well,
17:57
Speaker 1: and you know, she does the whole like and I
17:59
Speaker 1: love all of which I do think it's funny that
18:01
Speaker 1: the fortune teller is there and she says that, But
18:03
Speaker 1: in any case, I would have loved it if Elmira Golch, who,
18:10
Speaker 1: like you know, the mirrored comparison, is the wicked Witch
18:13
Speaker 1: of the West, right, ifl Myra Golch just shows up
18:16
Speaker 1: in the window at the very end and she's like
18:19
Speaker 1: even me, and Dorothy's like, no, you try to kill
18:22
Speaker 1: my dog and Myra's like, that's right. That plot point
18:26
Speaker 1: hasn't been resolved yet, I still have to kill your dog.
18:33
Speaker 2: Well, there's your answer for what could be improved. We
18:36
Speaker 2: are there's a massive plot hole in the original Wizard
18:38
Speaker 2: of Old.
18:40
Speaker 1: The movie just decides to end at one point. It's
18:43
Speaker 1: just like we're done, we are done.
18:46
Speaker 2: Listen. This is really all Toto's fault, though. If I'm
18:50
Speaker 2: being honest, like the whole thing right, Like Toto didn't
18:53
Speaker 2: jump out of the basket to run back home.
18:57
Speaker 1: Well it starts with Toto biting Elmira. Right, yeah, good,
19:01
Speaker 1: you didn't do that. Sounds like Dorothy's got to get
19:03
Speaker 1: total under control.
19:04
Speaker 2: Sound sounds like this whole thing is Tutle's fault.
19:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, or anti m like, maybe don't let the ten
19:10
Speaker 1: year old girl who looks like a sixteen year old
19:12
Speaker 1: girl run free with this wild dog. I don't know.
19:15
Speaker 1: That sounds like bag dog ownership.
19:18
Speaker 2: All right, Well now we're now we're getting in the.
19:20
Speaker 1: Nitpick in territory. That's what we do here.
19:24
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
19:25
Speaker 1: All right, but yeah, Wizard of Oz, it stands at
19:29
Speaker 1: test of time. I hope it always will.
19:31
Speaker 2: Yep.
19:31
Speaker 1: It is an icon for a reason.
19:35
Speaker 2: But now switching gears to our next film in the
19:40
Speaker 2: oz Fest celebration, OZ the Great and Powerful Year released
19:46
Speaker 2: I Forgot twenty thirteen. OZ is Great and Powerful starring
19:51
Speaker 2: James Franco me Lacunas.
19:54
Speaker 1: Directed by Sam Raimi.
19:56
Speaker 2: Directed by Sam Ramy. When I saw that I co
20:00
Speaker 2: I Forgot, I was like, what.
20:03
Speaker 1: Anyone listening, be honest, do you remember this movie? Did
20:07
Speaker 1: you go see this movie? Like, tell us please, because
20:10
Speaker 1: like I remember the trailers for this movie, I did
20:12
Speaker 1: not see it, and I don't know anyone who did.
20:15
Speaker 1: I don't know a single person who went to go
20:17
Speaker 1: see this movie.
20:18
Speaker 2: Same yep, I never watched it. First time was this
20:20
Speaker 2: past weekend for this blown away completely in the opening
20:25
Speaker 2: credits with the Sam Rami thing, I was like, what
20:31
Speaker 2: made me excited to watch it? And I think and
20:34
Speaker 2: overall like I didn't like hate it, you know, like
20:38
Speaker 2: but I was viewing it more in the lens of
20:40
Speaker 2: like exploring the land of Oz a little bit more.
20:43
Speaker 2: There are a handful of differences, of course, between some
20:48
Speaker 2: of the storyline here and Oz the Great and Powerful
20:52
Speaker 2: and the Wizard of Oz. There's even more between Oz
20:54
Speaker 2: the Great and Powerful and Wicked, which we'll get to
20:56
Speaker 2: probably closer to when we discuss Wicked. But so there's
21:00
Speaker 2: a there. I'd say probably more inconsistencies in this movie
21:04
Speaker 2: out of the three, I think, unless, of course, you
21:09
Speaker 2: consider this movie the most canon, in which case then
21:11
Speaker 2: everything else is inconsistent. So I don't know if you
21:14
Speaker 2: have any details on books there and what's canon and
21:16
Speaker 2: what's not out of this movie, but so.
21:20
Speaker 1: I I don't know so of the original forty, I
21:26
Speaker 1: don't so I was looking specifically for like Wicked or
21:29
Speaker 1: Oz the Great and Powerful right in the original forty,
21:32
Speaker 1: and like from what I could tell, correct me if
21:35
Speaker 1: I'm wrong here, I don't think it is. I think
21:37
Speaker 1: both of those stories and we'll get more into Wicked later.
21:40
Speaker 1: Both of those stories are at least Wicked for sure,
21:44
Speaker 1: based on a book that was published well outside of
21:47
Speaker 1: the original forty. And I think maybe there is a
21:51
Speaker 1: non canonical book outside of the original forty that is
21:55
Speaker 1: Oz Green and Powerful. But like I couldn't tell like
21:57
Speaker 1: how similar or different it was the movie. It kind
22:02
Speaker 1: of seems like they went rogue on this one, love it.
22:04
Speaker 2: Which I did. What was cool was like exploring like
22:08
Speaker 2: how did the Wizard get there? Right, because obviously such
22:11
Speaker 2: a big plot point and Wizard of Oz, like getting
22:14
Speaker 2: to meet the Wizard, and so it was really cool
22:16
Speaker 2: that this one's really focused on how Oz got to
22:20
Speaker 2: the Land of Oz. One of the cool things that
22:24
Speaker 2: was kind of similar right that Sam Romie I'm assuming
22:27
Speaker 2: did for the purposes of, like you know, flashing back
22:31
Speaker 2: to the original was kind of starting this movie in
22:33
Speaker 2: that same kind of gray scale black and white right,
22:37
Speaker 2: less color? Uh, and we don't really get color until
22:42
Speaker 2: Oz gets to the Land of Oz.
22:45
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna be ozz with you. Nick. This
22:47
Speaker 1: was actually something that made me mad about this movie.
22:50
Speaker 1: This is something that made me mad. Yeah, I'm gonna
22:53
Speaker 1: get on my soapbox right now. I'm all rant about
22:55
Speaker 1: this real quick. All right, So let me ask you, Nick,
22:59
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Wizard of Oz, is it in
23:02
Speaker 1: black and white?
23:06
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's technically black and white.
23:08
Speaker 1: It's like it's not black and white. It's just not
23:10
Speaker 1: shot in black and white either.
23:11
Speaker 2: It's like a like a gray scale. Like I forget
23:14
Speaker 2: what it's called. It's a sap tone. It's a sa tone.
23:19
Speaker 1: It's like it's you know, it's desaturated of color, right,
23:23
Speaker 1: but it's not colorless, right, And like I think part
23:27
Speaker 1: of the reason for that is, like, you know, to
23:30
Speaker 1: give that Kansas like a that that dirt look that
23:34
Speaker 1: farm dirt look right, to make it look like even poorer, right,
23:39
Speaker 1: because like at the end of the day, I think
23:41
Speaker 1: that's what like Oz is supposed to be, this like
23:43
Speaker 1: mirror of like our world, Right, But like where everything's
23:47
Speaker 1: different and more vibrant, right, And I don't know, it
23:52
Speaker 1: just kind of felt like they were like, oh, it's
23:53
Speaker 1: supposed to be old tiny, right, not not dirty like
23:59
Speaker 1: old timey. It was like that, I feel like you
24:01
Speaker 1: guys are kind of missing the point here. You guys
24:03
Speaker 1: are like trying to like pull some nostalgia here, but
24:06
Speaker 1: like it's not working. I don't know.
24:07
Speaker 2: I got mad at it, all right, Joe didn't work
24:09
Speaker 2: for Joe. The nostalgia there at the beginning of the
24:12
Speaker 2: Great and Powerful. In any case, it happened. I do
24:17
Speaker 2: think that it's interesting that Oz is also technically not
24:20
Speaker 2: from Kansas. I think it was Oklahoma, but he also
24:22
Speaker 2: he did omaha, thank you. He did spend some time
24:26
Speaker 2: in Kansas in his history that we found out. I
24:28
Speaker 2: think it was in the original that.
24:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says, yeah, he says it in Oz I
24:33
Speaker 1: was a Kansas man myself, young lady, right.
24:35
Speaker 2: So there's some similarities there. Of course, he arrived, you know,
24:38
Speaker 2: and then of course the way he gets there is
24:40
Speaker 2: basically a tornado. Just like Dorothy. In this case, he's
24:45
Speaker 2: in a hot air balloon, which is completely ridiculous, but
24:49
Speaker 2: but fun and and Yeah, that's like the beginning there, right,
24:56
Speaker 2: what do you got? Where do you want to get?
24:57
Speaker 2: Where do you want to go? Do you want me
24:58
Speaker 2: to hit practice some more practical effects here from Great
25:00
Speaker 2: and Powerful?
25:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's talk. Let's talk practicality. So what looks
25:05
Speaker 1: better Oz the Great and Powerful or the Wizard of
25:07
Speaker 1: oz Go.
25:10
Speaker 2: I think Oz is the Great and Powerful.
25:12
Speaker 1: You're wild, but like but not by that much. It's
25:17
Speaker 1: just critically like, it just looks more modern, right, that's
25:20
Speaker 1: really all.
25:21
Speaker 2: It looks more modern.
25:22
Speaker 1: Now.
25:22
Speaker 2: To the credit of Oz the Great and Powerful, they
25:24
Speaker 2: did build seven full sets full sicet I didn't know that,
25:28
Speaker 2: including Munchkin City, Glinda's Castle, the Whimsy Woods. They did
25:31
Speaker 2: this to help provide like the actors with like some
25:34
Speaker 2: tangible environments to interact with. So they did build like
25:37
Speaker 2: some full sets, which is really cool and I think
25:39
Speaker 2: it shows like in the movie. Right. In addition to that, though,
25:44
Speaker 2: as you can imagine, between twenty thirteen and nineteen thirty nine,
25:47
Speaker 2: quite a lot of effects and digital visual effects have
25:51
Speaker 2: been created, and so Oz the Great and Powerful contained
25:55
Speaker 2: around fifteen hundred visual effects shots. That's quite a lot.
26:01
Speaker 2: So they of course use this like CG characters, three
26:03
Speaker 2: D cinematography, you know, visual effects like all all that stuff.
26:08
Speaker 2: So there's also that part of it, right. I think
26:12
Speaker 2: another cool part is the China Girl in The Great
26:14
Speaker 2: and Powerful was actually a like puppeteer and they had
26:18
Speaker 2: like a couple of different like facial expressions that she
26:20
Speaker 2: could use.
26:21
Speaker 1: For the record, anyone who is listening to this right
26:23
Speaker 1: now and you haven't watched Oz The Great and Powerful,
26:25
Speaker 1: I do just want to press the preface the fact
26:27
Speaker 1: that Nick is not not being insensitive here. That is indeed,
26:31
Speaker 1: the character's name is the China Girl, has nothing to
26:34
Speaker 1: do with being from China. It is because she is
26:37
Speaker 1: a China, China porcelain doll, which actually was pretty cool.
26:41
Speaker 2: Great, very cool. Yeah, thank you for the clarification, Joe,
26:45
Speaker 2: So I don't get canceled.
26:47
Speaker 1: I got you, man.
26:49
Speaker 2: But yes, so you know, that's just like a handful
26:52
Speaker 2: of like the kind of overview of the effects and
26:56
Speaker 2: visual effects. But that's one thing that I love about
26:59
Speaker 2: this franchise and this universe is that in all the
27:03
Speaker 2: movies they focus, they really do bring in like the
27:07
Speaker 2: practical versions of it, right. They're building sets. Even in Wicked,
27:10
Speaker 2: which we'll get to they're building sets, and in my opinion,
27:14
Speaker 2: and I think the opinion of this podcast is that
27:16
Speaker 2: when you can build stuff for real, it just helps
27:20
Speaker 2: all parties involved, like get immersed in the world. That
27:23
Speaker 2: includes the actors, that includes the people watching, that includes us,
27:27
Speaker 2: and so really cool that they actually built that many
27:29
Speaker 2: sets in twenty thirteen. And so yeah, that's kind of
27:33
Speaker 2: just a quick overview. What I'll throw it back to
27:36
Speaker 2: you for what you want to talk about next as
27:39
Speaker 2: far as great.
27:39
Speaker 1: And product concerned, I guess I want to talk about
27:42
Speaker 1: just like because we haven't really talked about like what
27:46
Speaker 1: we gave like a very very very fast submarine of
27:49
Speaker 1: what this story is. And you know, as you had mentioned, Nick,
27:52
Speaker 1: it is the story of how Oz comes to the
27:54
Speaker 1: Land of Oz, which he just happens to share the
27:57
Speaker 1: same name as the land and it you know, we
28:02
Speaker 1: we come into conflict with our two witches, the wicked
28:05
Speaker 1: Witches of the East and West. There is a bit
28:08
Speaker 1: of a twist which I appreciate the movie trying to do.
28:13
Speaker 1: I don't think it sticks the lad Honestly, it's kind
28:16
Speaker 1: of really laughable. I didn't see it coming, but like
28:18
Speaker 1: it did make me laugh a lot, and I don't
28:21
Speaker 1: think I was supposed to like the.
28:23
Speaker 2: This is one thing that I did not like about
28:25
Speaker 2: visual effects or makeup or whatever.
28:27
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, this was bad.
28:29
Speaker 2: The Wicked Witch of the West looked horrible, like.
28:33
Speaker 1: In general miscast, but like also it did not help
28:37
Speaker 1: that the effects for her were bad.
28:38
Speaker 2: It looked so bad she looked it was like it
28:42
Speaker 2: was like funny ugly, you know, like not good.
28:46
Speaker 1: No, really too much. Yeah, the Wicked Witch of the
28:49
Speaker 1: West from nineteen thirty nine looks amazing compared in any era,
28:54
Speaker 1: and by god, especially compared to the twenty thirteen version.
29:00
Speaker 2: Twist. I don't think it landed either. It was cool.
29:05
Speaker 2: I think the cooler part was I really did appreciate
29:09
Speaker 2: the towards the end that the ending scene where you know,
29:12
Speaker 2: Oz comes up with this like a grand plan to
29:15
Speaker 2: essentially like trick the sisters into thinking he is this
29:18
Speaker 2: like powerful wizard. Like that was really cool to see,
29:21
Speaker 2: like the resourcefulness and the showmanship and entertainmentship and the
29:26
Speaker 2: conmanship that he has, right, because that kind of lets
29:29
Speaker 2: you believe where he could like go to in his
29:34
Speaker 2: future with with Oz right, which is of course what
29:36
Speaker 2: we end up seeing in the Wizard of Oz and
29:38
Speaker 2: then like some more backstory we got from him helped
29:41
Speaker 2: us kind of like understand where he was or what
29:44
Speaker 2: he does like in the movie like wicked, right, and
29:46
Speaker 2: so we kind of got like this main back story
29:47
Speaker 2: and we really got to see him in action, which
29:49
Speaker 2: I thought was really cool.
29:51
Speaker 1: I yeah, I do agree with that. I think a
29:54
Speaker 1: lot of the performances in this movie fall really flat.
29:58
Speaker 1: James Franco, however, I don't think his lines are always
30:02
Speaker 1: written very well, but like he's he's just always kind
30:04
Speaker 1: of a delight to watch. He's very charming, especially in
30:07
Speaker 1: this role, and I think he's pretty good at you know,
30:11
Speaker 1: being the stranger in a strange land and kind of
30:14
Speaker 1: fumbling his way through it, and then you know, watching
30:16
Speaker 1: him get to flex his muscles as a con man
30:18
Speaker 1: in the end. I do enjoy the idea of that.
30:22
Speaker 1: I think it works for like what we know Oz
30:24
Speaker 1: to be later, especially getting to watch the evolution of
30:27
Speaker 1: the big giant head right, that was really neat. For
30:30
Speaker 1: the record, the twist that we are referencing is Oz arrives.
30:34
Speaker 1: He is told by two leaders of Oz to women
30:37
Speaker 1: that he has to go kill the Wicked Witch in
30:40
Speaker 1: order to become the King of Oz, as it is prophesied.
30:43
Speaker 1: But it turns out the Wicked Witch is actually Glenda
30:47
Speaker 1: and the two women that he was talking to are
30:50
Speaker 1: actually the wicked Witches, to which we get to watch
30:53
Speaker 1: the evolution of the Wicked Witch of the West become green.
30:55
Speaker 1: And it's it's dumb and it's it's basically she feels
30:59
Speaker 1: spurned by the fact that Oz flirted with another girl. Yeah,
31:03
Speaker 1: and like that's why she becomes wicked and.
31:06
Speaker 2: Her own sister is the one that like makes this
31:09
Speaker 2: possible and portrays her anyway, So it's just like a
31:11
Speaker 2: whole it's jumbled and not very well done. Yeah, and stupid.
31:17
Speaker 1: Honestly, it's stupid. Also, I'm gonna go ahead and say this,
31:23
Speaker 1: I think it's this movie, even though I don't think that.
31:25
Speaker 1: I think this movie is like, it's not good by
31:29
Speaker 1: any search and imagination. I'd have a bad time watching it.
31:31
Speaker 1: It's kind of fun, Yeah, it's kind of fun.
31:33
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it and also have Finley the Flying Monkey assistant.
31:37
Speaker 1: Zach Braff, Zach Braff best character agreed, He's agreed. He was.
31:41
Speaker 1: He was the funniest you know, what's funny Zach Braff.
31:44
Speaker 1: In the beginning of this movie, when he is his
31:46
Speaker 1: human character, I like distinctly remember thinking, Wow, this is
31:51
Speaker 1: not a good performance by Zach Brath. This is really bad.
31:54
Speaker 1: And then like as soon as he's the mirrored, you know,
31:56
Speaker 1: animated monkey, all of a sudden, delightful and like the
32:00
Speaker 1: best character. It's like, I guess he was supposed to
32:02
Speaker 1: be playing like a muted version of that, but like,
32:05
Speaker 1: man does it not hit very well in the beginning,
32:07
Speaker 1: But later Zach Braff gets to be full Zach Braff
32:09
Speaker 1: and it's great, right, I.
32:10
Speaker 2: Mean, he probably read the script was like I love
32:12
Speaker 2: this friendly character, this idiot at the beginning I don't
32:14
Speaker 2: care for but we'll make it through.
32:17
Speaker 1: What I wanted to say, though, was this movie basically
32:20
Speaker 1: has of the three movies we are talking about the
32:23
Speaker 1: worst iterations of the characters who appear consistently in all
32:27
Speaker 1: these movies. Yes, the worst Wicked Witch, the worst I
32:30
Speaker 1: feel bad about saying it, but the worst Oz and
32:33
Speaker 1: the worst Glen by far, the worst Glenda not even close.
32:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you there. It It leaves a
32:43
Speaker 2: lot to be desired, for sure, from a character's part,
32:47
Speaker 2: but like overall.
32:48
Speaker 1: Movies enjoyable, Like yeah, no, I would agree with.
32:50
Speaker 2: That, And if you're a fan of the Oz verse,
32:52
Speaker 2: like you should watch this movie because it is fun
32:55
Speaker 2: and it's really and it is cool to see like
32:57
Speaker 2: the origin story of how Oz got to the like
33:00
Speaker 2: of Oz. Now it leaves some questions, right, like when
33:03
Speaker 2: he gets there, there's this prophecy that the Wizard is
33:06
Speaker 2: going to come and save the Land of Oz. And
33:11
Speaker 2: but and he arrives and they think he's the Wizard,
33:15
Speaker 2: and maybe he is what the prophecy is saying. But
33:20
Speaker 2: if he's not, then who is the Wizard actually supposed
33:23
Speaker 2: to be that's supposed to come and save everyone? Not sure.
33:29
Speaker 2: This is the only film when we also hear about
33:31
Speaker 2: any sort of prophecy, right because this is the only
33:35
Speaker 2: film out of three we're talking about where Oz is
33:37
Speaker 2: not originally in already in the Land of Oz. So
33:43
Speaker 2: it leaves some questions on that end.
33:44
Speaker 1: From a cannon perspective, I think one of the reasons
33:48
Speaker 1: why this movie like doesn't hit for me is the
33:52
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, even though I think a lot of
33:55
Speaker 1: like the lines or maybe a lot of moments from
33:58
Speaker 1: back then weren't as weren't supposed to be necessarily funny
34:04
Speaker 1: back then, right, and they are and they are funny now, right, Yeah.
34:07
Speaker 2: It was.
34:08
Speaker 1: It was still always written as a fun, whimsical adventure,
34:14
Speaker 1: whereas like a lot of great and powerful feels like
34:17
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be this epic thing, and I just
34:20
Speaker 1: don't feel like overall that's a great look for this
34:24
Speaker 1: for at least this cinema series, right, at least for
34:27
Speaker 1: the tone that's set originally.
34:28
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's a good point two more real quick hits. Yeah,
34:34
Speaker 2: more like I think Sam Romi trying to like pay
34:36
Speaker 2: homage to the original. They had like at that strawberry Fields,
34:41
Speaker 2: yes reference there at the end of this one, which
34:43
Speaker 2: was a clear reference to the original Wizard of Oz
34:46
Speaker 2: with you know, strawberry fields, sleeping fields. Yeah, strawberry Fields forever.
34:51
Speaker 2: That's a Beatles song, sleeping Fields. So that was like,
34:55
Speaker 2: you know, paying some more homage. That was I think
34:58
Speaker 2: they it worked well. It was cool where there's another
35:00
Speaker 2: part where like they show the con man and the
35:02
Speaker 2: Wizard and the craftsmanship of Oz, right and his resourcefulness
35:06
Speaker 2: about like you know, getting the group to get up
35:08
Speaker 2: to build these like figurines, and then one weird throwing
35:12
Speaker 2: scene that I was like, why is this in the movie?
35:14
Speaker 2: Is him basically swimming through gold and like jumping up
35:17
Speaker 2: and down in the gold like like like Scrooge.
35:20
Speaker 1: That was like so cringe, as if he's Scrooge McDuck.
35:24
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
35:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was so bad.
35:27
Speaker 2: Why are we Scrooge mcducking this scene right now? Like
35:29
Speaker 2: this is not necessary?
35:30
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, that was painful. That that really was. I
35:33
Speaker 1: think I deleted that scene from my memory.
35:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was horrible. But that's all the notes I
35:37
Speaker 2: have overall. I think it's worth watching in the os
35:40
Speaker 2: verse just to get some backstory on how he got.
35:43
Speaker 1: There if you ever needed it. But uh, yeah, without
35:48
Speaker 1: further ado, Uh, let's get to the main attraction of
35:52
Speaker 1: this podcast. Uh. We are talking about twenty twenty four's
35:56
Speaker 1: John Choose Wicked Part one, which I am told Yeah,
36:00
Speaker 1: Wicked Part one, which I am told is popular. I'm
36:06
Speaker 1: so sorry popular.
36:11
Speaker 2: All Right, you're gone. I'm gonna do the rest of
36:13
Speaker 2: myself just canceled.
36:16
Speaker 1: Talk about catchy tunes. Wow, Wicked.
36:22
Speaker 2: So that's a film.
36:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a film. I mean, I mean back to
36:26
Speaker 1: all right, So I was never lucky enough to watch
36:29
Speaker 1: the Broadway performance of this were you? Nope, No, I
36:34
Speaker 1: only know a couple a handful of people who were.
36:37
Speaker 1: From everything I've heard from anyone who saw it live,
36:40
Speaker 1: they loved the hell out of the performance, right. And
36:45
Speaker 1: as far as people who their introduction to Wicked was
36:49
Speaker 1: the theater, right, or if their introduction to Wicked was
36:52
Speaker 1: this movie, most people I talked to really loved what
36:55
Speaker 1: they saw. The people who read the book, however, did
36:59
Speaker 1: not seem as on board. So real quick note just
37:03
Speaker 1: about the book. If you don't know Wicked before it
37:06
Speaker 1: was played was the book came out in ninety five.
37:10
Speaker 1: It is written outside of the original forty and outside
37:15
Speaker 1: of most chronology of the Wizard of Oz. I believe
37:18
Speaker 1: some diehard fans like really regarded this to be like
37:21
Speaker 1: either its own thing or it is it is part
37:24
Speaker 1: of the truth of Oz, right, But like the author
37:27
Speaker 1: has been dead for a long time, so like, I
37:29
Speaker 1: guess up to you on where the chronology falls here.
37:32
Speaker 1: But Nick, and I'm sure you're gonna bring this up
37:35
Speaker 1: as far as the inconsistencies that we see in between stories,
37:39
Speaker 1: this is why, because it is it's not originally part
37:42
Speaker 1: of any kind of plan.
37:43
Speaker 2: You know, that makes sense because there are like a
37:46
Speaker 2: glaring amount of inconsistencies between Wicked specifically and the two
37:50
Speaker 2: films we just talked about, Yeah, the original Wizard of
37:53
Speaker 2: Oz and Oz the Great and Powerful.
37:55
Speaker 1: So yeah, pretty big inconsistencies too.
37:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense and why it would be outside
37:59
Speaker 2: of canon. The problem, as you're alluding to, is that
38:02
Speaker 2: this film is the pinnacle of the three in my opinion,
38:08
Speaker 2: and so I'm pretty sure it splits the road down
38:11
Speaker 2: the middle here on do we care or do we
38:14
Speaker 2: not care? And which one do we prefer to believe?
38:17
Speaker 1: Which I will say, I hear what you're saying as
38:21
Speaker 1: far as like the standout right, and I do think
38:23
Speaker 1: you know, part of what it's got going for it
38:25
Speaker 1: is like that modern like flair. However, that didn't help
38:29
Speaker 1: Oz the Great and Powerful. Sure, Yeah, But I will
38:33
Speaker 1: say what I think works great for this film as
38:36
Speaker 1: opposed to Oz the Great and Powerful is I think
38:39
Speaker 1: it really captures a lot of what made The Wizard
38:46
Speaker 1: of Oz such a like spirited film. Like not not
38:49
Speaker 1: only is it touching on like on a lot of
38:51
Speaker 1: the themes that The Wizard of Oz touched on, you know,
38:55
Speaker 1: your heart's desire and things of that nature, right right,
38:59
Speaker 1: you know, capturing the mirrored effect of things. But like
39:02
Speaker 1: it also pushed the bounds technologically speaking, right that the
39:06
Speaker 1: last act alone, the last number defining gravity is a spectacle.
39:12
Speaker 1: I'd say the movie, the entire movie is worth watching
39:14
Speaker 1: just for defying gravity. Yeah, honestly, it's it's it's it's
39:19
Speaker 1: a cinematography like Marvel. It's it's beautiful, so like way
39:23
Speaker 1: to push the boundaries creatively on.
39:25
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, absolute spectacle really and and just to kind
39:29
Speaker 2: of like touch on some practical effects or visual effects here,
39:33
Speaker 2: just as an overview for for Wicked, of course, like
39:39
Speaker 2: Heavy relied on there was a lot of practical effects.
39:41
Speaker 2: They built tangible sets just like the other movies, which
39:44
Speaker 2: is awesome, rather than relying on c g I this
39:48
Speaker 2: of course like really does does come through. Like I
39:52
Speaker 2: think the sets and the visuals in Wicked are infinitely
39:56
Speaker 2: better than Aust're great and powerful like it. Really they
40:00
Speaker 2: do a good job. So yeah, they did, they'd build like,
40:04
Speaker 2: of course, the real sets. The giant like animatronic head
40:10
Speaker 2: was like a puppet puppeteer controlling it with like a
40:13
Speaker 2: hydraulic arm and everything to move that. So that was
40:16
Speaker 2: that's cool that that was Like.
40:18
Speaker 1: There is there is a video of of of our
40:22
Speaker 1: two stars, Cynthia and Arianta seeing the head for the
40:27
Speaker 1: first time as it comes out. They didn't know that
40:29
Speaker 1: that was gonna happen and just just go find it.
40:31
Speaker 1: It's the two of them freaking out as it comes out.
40:34
Speaker 2: That's amazing. The other thing that's really cool is the
40:37
Speaker 2: Emerald City Express, which is like probably the most badass
40:41
Speaker 2: train that I've ever seen, h thirty two ton train
40:44
Speaker 2: built to actually run, so like.
40:48
Speaker 1: This thing was so cool. It moved, Yeah, it.
40:51
Speaker 2: Moved for real. And then munchkin Land specifically million nine
40:57
Speaker 2: million tulips were planted to create the look of munchkin Land. Wow,
41:01
Speaker 2: nine million insane. And then of course Shiz fifty two
41:05
Speaker 2: foot high set. Shiz was fifty two feet that set high,
41:11
Speaker 2: So like impressive scale, impressive set design to really make
41:16
Speaker 2: you feel immersed. And visual effects wise, twenty two hundred
41:21
Speaker 2: visual effects shot in total in this film. Comparatively, we've
41:24
Speaker 2: talked about Great and Powerful at about fifteen hundred, so
41:27
Speaker 2: kind of makes sense. Bigger film, longer film, more visual
41:31
Speaker 2: effects in this one, but not too much more basically, but.
41:35
Speaker 1: You know, I gotta say like, and I'll applaud great
41:38
Speaker 1: and powerful for this, like at least both of these
41:40
Speaker 1: films like really tried to like harken back to like
41:44
Speaker 1: I guess the movie magic of like what made the
41:46
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz sing right, like building out those those
41:49
Speaker 1: huge practical sets.
41:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you just I mean the world it's the
41:53
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz. The Land of Oz is so important
41:56
Speaker 2: that you need, like the actors and actresses like to
41:59
Speaker 2: be able to to actually there, actually be there and
42:02
Speaker 2: like interact with these sets to really like feel like
42:05
Speaker 2: they're in this world and to portray it correctly. And
42:08
Speaker 2: so it's awesome that the studios give them a bunch
42:10
Speaker 2: of money to do it, and they clearly got the
42:13
Speaker 2: right people because of the sets here and Wicked were fantastic.
42:17
Speaker 1: I you know, I was talking about this earlier about
42:21
Speaker 1: how the Wizard of Oz is a mirror to our world, right,
42:28
Speaker 1: and you know that's the way it's it's supposed to
42:30
Speaker 1: come across. That's why those those characters, you know, the
42:32
Speaker 1: farm characters, are also the characters that Dorothy comes across
42:36
Speaker 1: in her journey. Right. It's like an inverted mirror, right,
42:40
Speaker 1: And what I really enjoyed about Wicked is it retains
42:46
Speaker 1: that without the use of the other world, right, whereas
42:50
Speaker 1: like the Inverted Mirror, it's it's not being used as
42:53
Speaker 1: a point of looking at like our world. It's looked
42:56
Speaker 1: at through Dorothy's journey, right versus OUs which, by the way,
43:02
Speaker 1: her name is Alphaba uh Oz, the Great and Powerful
43:06
Speaker 1: Theodora for some reason. Yeah, that's a strange choice, right, Alphaba.
43:12
Speaker 1: I like that. That's a good witch name. That's a
43:14
Speaker 1: that's a great witch name, Theodora great.
43:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, odd choice choice, yeah, alphabet, great witch name. I've
43:23
Speaker 2: got so many like canon canon wise questions almost right, like,
43:26
Speaker 2: because this movie picks up, starts off with like Wicked,
43:31
Speaker 2: Witch of the West is dead, right, which.
43:34
Speaker 1: Is right right, which we're past the climax of of
43:38
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz right at this point picks up
43:40
Speaker 1: we're actually we get a scene where we get to
43:42
Speaker 1: see the our quartet is marching back to Oz after
43:45
Speaker 1: they've killed her.
43:46
Speaker 2: Right, So like this kind of movie, this movie is
43:48
Speaker 2: Wicked essentially picks up where that like leaves off right
43:52
Speaker 2: in a way, of course, it's most of the movie
43:56
Speaker 2: really takes place in like a flashback storytelling perspective, right
43:59
Speaker 2: where Glinda's telling a story of like how her and
44:02
Speaker 2: Alphaba were friends in school, and so.
44:06
Speaker 1: You know it's Glinda, but the gu is silent. I
44:09
Speaker 1: just don't want to make that here, Glenn.
44:14
Speaker 2: Also, can we talk about the fucking hair flips? Just
44:18
Speaker 2: usus ridiculous?
44:21
Speaker 1: So great anyway, So we'll get to Ariana Grande in
44:23
Speaker 1: a second.
44:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, so you know, most of this Wicked
44:26
Speaker 2: is really like a flashback right in a way, in
44:28
Speaker 2: a story that Glenna is telling. So and there are
44:35
Speaker 2: from the Great and Powerful. There are a lot of differences,
44:37
Speaker 2: like in The Great and Powerful, every all the witches
44:42
Speaker 2: are already in Oz and Wicked, none of them, uh,
44:49
Speaker 2: But basically in Wicked, like in Wicked, Oz is already there.
44:56
Speaker 2: Oz is there the whole time. He doesn't arrive while
45:01
Speaker 2: the other witches are there right where.
45:02
Speaker 1: Like it's it feels as though he's come from Omaha
45:05
Speaker 1: for a while now. He's been around for a man,
45:08
Speaker 1: and he.
45:08
Speaker 2: Built the Emerald City, right whereas in Oz the Green Powerful,
45:11
Speaker 2: it's already there, like yeah, he's inheriting, inheriting it and
45:16
Speaker 2: he has to also like earn it back through a battle,
45:19
Speaker 2: so like that's like a main inconsistency. Another one that
45:23
Speaker 2: really stands out because of how important it is to
45:25
Speaker 2: oz Lore is the Yellow Brick Road. The out of
45:31
Speaker 2: all three of these films, Wicked is the only one
45:33
Speaker 2: that like tries to tell us how the yellow Bick
45:35
Speaker 2: Road became yellow because apparently doing apparently was alphab is doing,
45:41
Speaker 2: but really was Glinda who suggested yellow. So really it
45:44
Speaker 2: was like Glinda who really like finalizes the yellow Brick Road.
45:48
Speaker 1: So she's so good.
45:49
Speaker 2: That's like, she's so so good.
45:52
Speaker 1: She's so good.
45:54
Speaker 2: So like, you know, there's a little that that seems
45:56
Speaker 2: like a big like ozloar thing to just like just side,
46:00
Speaker 2: especially for something that's not canon like the cell Brick
46:05
Speaker 2: Road is actually Glinda created it. She created the color
46:08
Speaker 2: and all of these things. So that's just like another
46:11
Speaker 2: thing that kind of stands out. Also the security for.
46:16
Speaker 1: Oz that's right, Yeah, we get an explanation for this.
46:19
Speaker 2: Is the first movie where they don't have wings yet,
46:21
Speaker 2: and so we essentially figure out how they get wings,
46:24
Speaker 2: but doesn't really fit and Odz a great and powerful
46:28
Speaker 2: because of course oz uh in Oz before he even
46:33
Speaker 2: got to the Land of Oz, they had wings, so
46:37
Speaker 2: there's like a lot of consistencies there. But your explanation
46:40
Speaker 2: about the canality of Wicked compared to some of these
46:43
Speaker 2: other movies kind of like speaks to the.
46:46
Speaker 1: Really just the Wizard of Oz. I don't know canon either.
46:50
Speaker 1: I don't think it is.
46:50
Speaker 2: We're not sure.
46:52
Speaker 1: We hope not. I'm like pretty confident, but.
46:57
Speaker 2: It's cool to kind of just see the differences between
46:59
Speaker 2: like how they're telling stories and like what they're deciding
47:01
Speaker 2: is important and not important, and so yeah.
47:04
Speaker 1: I would you know, as far as you know, arguing
47:07
Speaker 1: like the chnology of like these two movies, and like
47:10
Speaker 1: even though like from a book standpoint, neither of them
47:12
Speaker 1: are right, but if you were trying to like create
47:18
Speaker 1: you know, in Oz lore in cinema specifically cinema, it
47:22
Speaker 1: feels like Wicked is the better bridge between the two
47:27
Speaker 1: between Oz or Os the Green Powerful or Wicked. It
47:30
Speaker 1: feels like Wicked does a better job of like creating
47:33
Speaker 1: a seamless like world, right, Yeah.
47:37
Speaker 2: I agree. I think it's much easier to go from
47:39
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz to Wicked than Wizard of Oz to
47:42
Speaker 2: Oz the Great and Powerful.
47:44
Speaker 1: Especially because like there's just so many things about Oz
47:46
Speaker 1: gre and Powerful that are just they're just got to disappointment.
47:49
Speaker 2: I'd love for them to remake not os Green Powerful,
47:52
Speaker 2: but like tell a different version of how the Wizard
47:55
Speaker 2: got there.
47:56
Speaker 1: Give us a different movie, Do it again, do.
48:00
Speaker 2: It again, because it is a cool thing to explore,
48:03
Speaker 2: and I think that there are a lot of things
48:06
Speaker 2: in that movie that are done well but wicked. Give
48:12
Speaker 2: me me. I'm gonna give some quick hits, Okay, some
48:15
Speaker 2: quick hits about about what we liked, what we didn't like.
48:24
Speaker 2: The Wizard banning like animals in that whole storyline about
48:29
Speaker 2: like animals losing their voice and things like that, like really,
48:33
Speaker 2: in my opinion, really intriguing. I loved the teacher character
48:37
Speaker 2: as well, Uh Dylan whats his name?
48:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Professor Dillon.
48:42
Speaker 2: Professor Dillon played by Peter Dinklish. Awesome, great character. And
48:48
Speaker 2: of course, like that leads us to you know, Alphaba
48:51
Speaker 2: being a little bit more like intrigued on like what's
48:54
Speaker 2: going on with animals and wanting the Wizard to grant
48:57
Speaker 2: the animals like their freedom, and then of course we
48:59
Speaker 2: find out that like you know, basically.
49:00
Speaker 1: It's it's a I mean that's that's really important for
49:03
Speaker 1: her as a character, as a character who is ostracized,
49:07
Speaker 1: and she's witnessing this group of characters it's being ostracized.
49:11
Speaker 1: It immediately endears her to them, right, Yeah, so.
49:17
Speaker 2: That's also a little heartbreaking too, like when she like,
49:20
Speaker 2: you know, it's cool, but heartbreaking when she reads the
49:22
Speaker 2: grimmer when she can read the Grimmery right, like the
49:25
Speaker 2: only Wizard. Actually, you could.
49:26
Speaker 1: Probably thank you for remembering that. I could not remember
49:28
Speaker 1: what that book was called.
49:29
Speaker 2: It's like reads the Grimmory like cast a spell gives
49:33
Speaker 2: the apes wings horrifying, especially for her because she like
49:37
Speaker 2: wants to help the animals, not like punish them. And
49:44
Speaker 2: and also is it possible to cast anyone better than
49:50
Speaker 2: gold Bloom as the Wizard?
49:53
Speaker 1: He was wonderful, So thank you for transitioning here to
49:57
Speaker 1: casting Jeff Goldbloom. He's just he's just such a fun actor. Man.
50:01
Speaker 1: He's just always so fun to watch on screen. He
50:03
Speaker 1: does such whimsical and uh he speaks and moves with
50:08
Speaker 1: such oddities, right that he's just a Marvel in and
50:12
Speaker 1: of himself. Which isn't that his mirror counterparts name doctor
50:17
Speaker 1: Marvel or something in the Wizard of Oz. That's the
50:19
Speaker 1: fortune teller. Oh I think he thinks so, yeah, it's
50:24
Speaker 1: something like a Professor Marvel. It's something like that. In
50:28
Speaker 1: any case, it doesn't matter. But yeah, the scene where
50:31
Speaker 1: he's marching through like the Model of Oz, like you
50:35
Speaker 1: can tell, like Goldblue is just having such a fun,
50:37
Speaker 1: such a fun time with with that character, right, Yeah, yeah,
50:44
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.
50:45
Speaker 2: I was I was basically done. I've already bragged about
50:48
Speaker 2: how awesome the defining gravity scene is at the end there,
50:50
Speaker 2: and it really just like gets you jazzed up for
50:52
Speaker 2: part two, like and and for where we're going, because
50:54
Speaker 2: I haven't seen the Wicked play and I didn't really
50:59
Speaker 2: want to ruin it to see what happens next. So
51:02
Speaker 2: I'm kind of just like in Limbo, waiting for the
51:04
Speaker 2: second film to come out. Thankfully it comes out at
51:06
Speaker 2: the end of this year. They filmed it all together apparently.
51:08
Speaker 1: So yes, we're not waiting part two. I'm very excited
51:11
Speaker 1: for that. Just to harp on the casting just a
51:16
Speaker 1: little bit more, Oh, let's can we talk about the
51:20
Speaker 1: Ariana Grande in the room. I'm gonna talk about her
51:23
Speaker 1: first before I get to Cynthia Arivo. Is that how
51:27
Speaker 1: you say that? Arivo? Rivo? Cynthia Rivo? Okay, So I
51:34
Speaker 1: I never had anything against Ariana Grande. She just never
51:37
Speaker 1: really did it for me. I remember her on what
51:41
Speaker 1: was the Victoria Jory Justice's show, whatever, the Nickelodeon show
51:45
Speaker 1: forever ago, I remember on there. Yeah, I don't know,
51:50
Speaker 1: she just never did it for me. Ever, this movie
51:54
Speaker 1: made me a fan of Ariana Grande because, like, to me,
51:57
Speaker 1: like before this as someone who just didn't know a
51:59
Speaker 1: lot about her, she just didn't seem like she had
52:03
Speaker 1: a lot going on. And in this movie you can
52:06
Speaker 1: tell like this is someone who clearly cared a lot
52:09
Speaker 1: about the performance. Like she her character is supposed to
52:15
Speaker 1: be big and loud and like very commanding in scenes,
52:18
Speaker 1: and like Grande does such a great job of doing
52:20
Speaker 1: that that she kind of she kind of steals the
52:22
Speaker 1: scene almost every time, with the exception of course, of
52:26
Speaker 1: defying gravity, which is supposed to be Alphaba's big coming out, right,
52:32
Speaker 1: but yeah, just just so awesome to watch her take
52:36
Speaker 1: that scene and be so fun and whimsical with it, right,
52:41
Speaker 1: you know, the the little lines like here and there,
52:45
Speaker 1: the way that you know she does the toss toss, like, yeah,
52:47
Speaker 1: she brings the character to life with like all these
52:50
Speaker 1: like great like actor choices. Right, Like the scene where
52:52
Speaker 1: they're doing Popular and she's hanging from the chandelier and
52:57
Speaker 1: her legs are spread and like her legs are spread
53:00
Speaker 1: as they're circulating around Cynthia Arrivo's head and she just
53:04
Speaker 1: has to like just deal with like the awkwardness of that.
53:08
Speaker 1: Both of them like rock that scene. It's so funny.
53:11
Speaker 2: They crushed it. I mean, they both did such a
53:13
Speaker 2: great job.
53:14
Speaker 1: Well, that's why I was gonna get to with Arivo
53:17
Speaker 1: because like for as loud and big as as Grande
53:21
Speaker 1: has to be with go Linda and then Glinda, Arrivo
53:25
Speaker 1: has to be subtle, yeah, but powerful right right, and
53:29
Speaker 1: like the quiet things that she does on the like
53:35
Speaker 1: the scene where they're dancing at the the oz dust Bowl,
53:38
Speaker 1: yeah oz Bole the dust Bowl whatever and the club right,
53:43
Speaker 1: and and they turn and like you see Alphaba's face
53:47
Speaker 1: in one moment and then the very next moment you
53:48
Speaker 1: see it again and just like two huge tears just
53:51
Speaker 1: coming down.
53:51
Speaker 2: Like that's incredible, especially because when she's dancing by herself,
53:57
Speaker 2: it looks so weird, but then you realize that this
53:59
Speaker 2: is a dance that's meant to be done with a partner.
54:01
Speaker 2: And then so when I like that interpretation when Glinda
54:05
Speaker 2: joins in, You're like, wait, this is like this dance
54:08
Speaker 2: makes so much more sense when you've got someone to
54:10
Speaker 2: do it with. And this is like a big moment
54:12
Speaker 2: where they kind of like are becoming friends. You know,
54:17
Speaker 2: really awesome, awesome scene to do it like that.
54:20
Speaker 1: I'm going to wait to judge like the story of
54:23
Speaker 1: this of Wicked until like we get the complete you know, package,
54:28
Speaker 1: But I will say, like, what sells me on this
54:30
Speaker 1: particular movie is is the sisterhood of these two characters.
54:35
Speaker 1: How it gets built up and I assume how ultimately
54:38
Speaker 1: it will get torn apart.
54:40
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's really well done, and I think that's
54:43
Speaker 2: a good idea to wait to put part two to
54:45
Speaker 2: fully judge the full story. One quick little thing that
54:48
Speaker 2: I forgot to mention is when they get to Emerald City,
54:51
Speaker 2: there's like a re enactment or like a stage performance
54:53
Speaker 2: in the.
54:54
Speaker 1: Emeraldty Oh this is cool.
54:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the original Wicked Yeah cast members, which
54:59
Speaker 2: is uh sick?
55:02
Speaker 1: Which uh Adina Menzel let it go baby, So cool.
55:09
Speaker 1: That was that was some unexpected, like even I like
55:11
Speaker 1: caught that, like, you know, sitting in the movie theater,
55:13
Speaker 1: not a big wicked person, but like the moment a
55:15
Speaker 1: Dina Menzel shows up, it's like, oh, yeah, like she
55:18
Speaker 1: that's how she was famous before Frozen, I forgot really cool.
55:21
Speaker 2: And then of course like Channel with uh who were
55:25
Speaker 2: huge fans of from West Wing, so there's a couple
55:28
Speaker 2: of seasons he's in the West Wing team. Super super random.
55:32
Speaker 2: But anyway, so that was like a cool I love
55:34
Speaker 2: little things like that, you know, that very very fun
55:38
Speaker 2: and and yeah, I don't have I'm trying to think,
55:41
Speaker 2: I'm looking at my notes real quick.
55:42
Speaker 1: But.
55:46
Speaker 2: I do like that we got to see at the
55:49
Speaker 2: end the hot air balloon as like an escape attempt
55:52
Speaker 2: m just because like the hot air balloon was such
55:55
Speaker 2: like a big focal point of Oz the Great and Powerful.
55:58
Speaker 2: Obviously the really don't have much to compare as far as, like,
56:02
Speaker 2: you know, the cannality of it, but because of like
56:05
Speaker 2: the importance of how Oz gets there to the Land
56:09
Speaker 2: of Oz, that suggests that in the Wicked timeline, Oz
56:13
Speaker 2: did also come there with a hot air blown.
56:16
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, once again, like a better, a better
56:20
Speaker 1: seamless like connection right to the Wizard of Oz than
56:24
Speaker 1: yeah a powerful right. Yeah, no, that's a great call. Yeah,
56:30
Speaker 1: Nick as a as a final note before we move
56:33
Speaker 1: on from our from our Oz movies, here just to
56:36
Speaker 1: talk about Oz itself. Uh, what is it that you
56:40
Speaker 1: think about Oz, the land of Oz that people love
56:45
Speaker 1: returning to so much?
56:47
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's to me, it's just like the the fantasy
56:51
Speaker 2: of the world and the sets, like you've got like
56:53
Speaker 2: something like the Emerald City, Like that's like insane, like
56:56
Speaker 2: that does not exist here, Like we don't have like
56:58
Speaker 2: a a city like all like green and Emerald and
57:02
Speaker 2: like just like enchanted, you know, like and I think
57:05
Speaker 2: people love to have that kind of like thought and
57:08
Speaker 2: wish or like what if thought? Right on? What if
57:11
Speaker 2: this was real? Like how would it look? How would
57:13
Speaker 2: it be? I love the depiction of it in Wicked.
57:16
Speaker 2: I think it was my favorite version of the three,
57:19
Speaker 2: The Emerald City really cool. And yeah, I mean that
57:22
Speaker 2: that can be the only thing exploring these three movies.
57:25
Speaker 2: It actually makes me more interested for part two of
57:27
Speaker 2: Wicked and then maybe some other potential Os films down
57:33
Speaker 2: down the line. Uh, because it really is like a
57:36
Speaker 2: cool world to explore. There's a lot, there's a lot there.
57:41
Speaker 1: So I think I think Wicked proves that there's an
57:45
Speaker 1: appetite for this, right for sure. Yeah, I absolutely right,
57:51
Speaker 1: And you pretty much hit all the words that I
57:53
Speaker 1: would have said about this. Yeah, I think it is
57:55
Speaker 1: a fantastical, whimsical place that people people want to you know,
57:59
Speaker 1: see and you know, you brought up that the fact
58:01
Speaker 1: that they wish it was there, and just to like
58:03
Speaker 1: expand on that just a little bit, like OZ has
58:06
Speaker 1: always been about a story about you know what, finding
58:09
Speaker 1: what your heart desires, right and like you know how
58:12
Speaker 1: close it actually is to you rather than it being
58:15
Speaker 1: in this far away place, right, And I think that
58:18
Speaker 1: speaks to a lot of people. Certainly does hear, But yeah,
58:24
Speaker 1: for oz Fest, that'll do it for now. However, there
58:29
Speaker 1: are a lot more OZ movies, as we've learned, other
58:33
Speaker 1: than Wicked Part two, So stay tuned later this year
58:37
Speaker 1: for oz Fest Part two to find out what those are.
58:40
Speaker 2: Awesome, and in the meantime, you can find us on threads.
58:44
Speaker 2: Follow us there. We're talking about all other things that
58:46
Speaker 2: are streaming, and of course hit that subscribe button. Give
58:49
Speaker 2: us a like and a comment. Tell us what you
58:50
Speaker 2: think about the Land of Oz, and until next time
58:54
Speaker 2: made the review, be with you. These six