Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 179 - How to Create Portraits That Feel Raw, Honest, and Powerful

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179 - How to Create Portraits That Feel Raw, Honest, and Powerful · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

• 0:04
  Casey Fatchett: Nothing to worry about. The process just takes a
• 0:06
  little time. Hey, hello there! Welcome to the Nerdy
• 0:08
  Photographer Podcast. I'm your host Casey Fatchett. Welcome to
• 0:13
  another new episode. If you're a first-time listener, the next
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  thing you should do is subscribe to the show so you don't miss
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  any future episodes. If this is not your first time, and if you
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  have already subscribed, you should leave a review. They
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  really help a lot with discovering with new people
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  discovering the show. Then you're free to join us for lots
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  of amazing conversations and adventures. Because in addition
• 0:35
  to giving you interviews with photographers from all over the
• 0:39
  planet and providing lots of informative and entertaining
• 0:42
  photography-related information, I also go on adventures with the
• 0:46
  crew of the starship Fibonacci. Currently, I am creating
• 0:49
  portraits of the indigenous population of Gavanias Prime.
• 0:56
  Alien: Oulif, Olef, Olef, Olef.
• 0:59
  Casey Fatchett: Well, obviously you don't know me, and you don't
• 1:01
  know my style. You see, the issue is that the natives here
• 1:04
  can't be photographed with bright lights, so we have to use
• 1:06
  very long exposure.
• 1:08
  Alien: Oulif, olef, olef, olef.
• 1:11
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's going to be a while. On this episode
• 1:13
  of the Nerdy Photographer podcast, I interview portrait
• 1:15
  photographer Bettina Laplante. We talk about gaining the trust
• 1:19
  of your portrait subjects as well as the visceral nature of
• 1:21
  her photos, all of that after the break. You know, the more
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• 2:51
  Hey, before we dive into the show, I have something to tell
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  you about. Something a little sneaky I've been doing over the
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  four interview episodes from July 9th to August 20th. I will
• 3:04
  be dropping hints, lyrics to be exact, from the same musical
• 3:08
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• 3:12
  ahead of the game. Here's how to win: follow me on Instagram and
• 3:16
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• 3:20
  with the name of the musical act and the specific song I
• 3:24
  referenced in each of those four episodes. Get it right first,
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  both platforms so you don't miss out on a single episode, and
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  start taking notes because the clues are already in motion.
• 3:53
  Links are in the show notes. Good luck, and let's get into
• 3:56
  today's episode. Hello and welcome to the Nerdy
• 4:04
  Photographer Podcast. I'm your host Casey Fatchett. I'm here
• 4:08
  today with Bettina Laplante. Welcome to the show.
• 4:13
  Betina LaPlante: Thank you. Happy to be here. Honored that
• 4:15
  you'd have me.
• 4:16
  Casey Fatchett: It's a pleasure. It's truly a pleasure. Before we
• 4:18
  get into the meat of the episode. Let's roll the dice
• 4:22
  breaker.
• 4:24
  Okay, it's an 18. Which fictional character, Bettina,
• 4:29
  would you like to be friends with?
• 4:32
  Betina LaPlante: Fictional character. Well, seeing as it's
• 4:37
  all in the news and the marketing is so, you know, like
• 4:44
  an overload of marketing, I would say Miranda Priestly.
• 4:49
  Casey Fatchett: Oh, I mean, I was talking to someone recently
• 4:52
  who had never seen. Oh, it was a good good friend, and his wife
• 4:57
  and daughter had tickets to go see the. Devil Wears Prada 2.
• 5:01
  He's like, I've never seen the first one. He's like, I really
• 5:03
  enjoyed it. I love that movie. I love the first one. I have not
• 5:07
  yet. I've yet to see the second one, but I love the first one.
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  Like, my favorite is Why isn't anybody ready?
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  Betina LaPlante: Yeah. Well, by all means, move at a glacial
• 5:17
  pace. You know how that thrills
• 5:19
  Casey Fatchett: me.
• 5:21
  Betina LaPlante: Yeah, that or Emma Stone's Cruella.
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  Casey Fatchett: Ooh, yeah, she's got quite a fashion sense. Yeah,
• 5:29
  that was good. And
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  Betina LaPlante: and also she wasn't as evil in that one.
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  She's not like the Disney Cruella. It's a different
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  Cruella. So I would like to, yeah.
• 5:37
  Casey Fatchett: As far as we know, yet she's still early on
• 5:40
  in her in her stables, yeah, in her, her incarnation,
• 5:45
  Betina LaPlante: yeah.
• 5:46
  Casey Fatchett: Bettina, you are a wonderful photographer. You
• 5:51
  take a lot of amazing and what I consider very, to me, visceral
• 5:57
  portraits that have like just like a really feel like I'm in
• 6:03
  the room with your subjects, and that I get a that I'm getting
• 6:09
  kind of a not behind the scenes. I'm getting a glimpse into their
• 6:16
  persona, but sometimes it's not always something that they
• 6:22
  because you photograph some fairly famous people in those
• 6:27
  subjects, like you have, I always think of when I'm looking
• 6:31
  at your work that the two that stick out to me are Charles
• 6:33
  Dance and Christopher Lloyd, because Charles Dance is kind of
• 6:37
  known as sort of a villainous. He does villains. Well, he has
• 6:43
  played
• 6:44
  Betina LaPlante: some great villains. Yes,
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  Casey Fatchett: he's but like your a lot of the photos that I
• 6:50
  have seen of yours of him have really have a warmth to them,
• 6:56
  and I think show probably his true personality.
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  Betina LaPlante: I was going to say, you know, that I think it's
• 7:01
  probably the mark of a good actor that he can portray
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  something that he really isn't like. He's one. He's a gentleman
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  and charming and just wonderful. So if that comes across and
• 7:17
  there is a warmth there, that's who he is. You know, the the
• 7:20
  rest is all acting,
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  Casey Fatchett: right? I mean, as a former actor myself, I
• 7:24
  think that that it's a it's it's a testament to his ability. The
• 7:30
  other, with Christopher Lloyd, I feel like you got something else
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  that normally we don't see of him because people a lot of
• 7:36
  associate him with Doc Brown or his character on Taxi, which are
• 7:40
  sort of like very, but you're, and I, I will say this: his
• 7:46
  character in Who Framed Roger Rabbit very dark, but like your
• 7:52
  portrait of him has a little bit more of a like a sort of dark
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  playfulness to that, like as far as like the the the other side
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  of that coin where we normally see him as this very sort of
• 8:05
  like frenetic character. There's sort of a still, the real
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  stillness in that shot. Just wanted to start out with like
• 8:11
  some some compliments of your work. Just add to oh well,
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  Betina LaPlante: thank you. I appreciate that. And another
• 8:16
  absolutely delightful human being. He's just wonderful. He's
• 8:20
  actually quite quiet, and it's it's it's lovely seeing a you
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  know the the the person, not just the actor.
• 8:31
  Casey Fatchett: Right, you're not seeing the character; you're
• 8:33
  seeing the yes or persona. Yeah. So my curiosity from that comes
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  to like, what's the first encounter when someone sits down
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  in front of your camera? What are you looking for in those
• 8:50
  first few moments before you even take a photo? Is there some
• 8:55
  sort of vulnerability that you're trying to unlock? Is
• 8:58
  there some sort of ice breaking that you are trying to achieve
• 9:03
  is there?
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  Betina LaPlante: Well, time allowing, which so far most
• 9:11
  people I have photographed, I have had the luxury of a bit of
• 9:16
  time. I try not to pick up the camera for the first, however
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  long is feasible, and and chat and get to know the person,
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  especially if I haven't met them before, because I think I'm I'm
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  probably more nervous than they are. You know, when someone is
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  an actor, they're used to being in front of a lens. They're kind
• 9:42
  of comfortable, but also they perform to a lens. And for me,
• 9:47
  it's just trying to you know, I always going nervous. So it's
• 9:54
  just to bring myself down, get to know the person, then let
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  them get to know me. Without the camera, without there being
• 10:02
  anything, and that for me works. It usually allows an
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  interaction, a communication, a little bit of I don't know, just
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  being two people without without having the presence of the
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  camera, and I don't know. This everything calms down.
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  Everything sort of seems to just settle. And when I do pick up
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  the camera, there's already comfortability there. So, as I
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  said, I've always said, so far, bar a few exceptions, the
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  privilege and luxury of having time to just get to know the
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  subject a little bit, and then when we start, there is you know
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  we can have a banter. We it's more on a you know we're we're
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  not even though we're acquaintances, we're just a
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  little bit beyond that, and it's not. I'm not just there to take
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  the photograph. You know, we're there just to have a bit of fun.
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  Casey Fatchett: You're establishing a rapport.
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  Absolutely, I think that that's
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  Betina LaPlante: absolutely, and I think for me, for me, I really
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  love that. I enjoy that. I think it brings a lot to the portrait,
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  having an element of trust between the subject and myself.
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  Casey Fatchett: It's. I did an interview recently with the
• 11:34
  photographer John Dolan, and it's something he said that I'm
• 11:38
  stealing, and I'm just using it all the time now. Is the the
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  photographs come at the end, in the sense of like you know you
• 11:46
  get to know your subject, you whatever amount of time you have
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  with them, spending your energy getting them to you know be
• 11:58
  themselves or relax or what are they, or to trust you, to trust
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  you to take their photo, because I think that's when people feel
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  uncomfortable in front of the camera. I think, as someone who
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  feels uncomfortable having their picture taken, I think a lot of
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  it has to do with the like. I have to trust you to not take a
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  horrible photo of me, or to and that's and
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  Betina LaPlante: that's and I think you're right. I certainly
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  have no comfortability in front of a camera, so I I guess I
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  project that it's not the case with most of the people I
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  photograph, but because I feel it, then I just want whoever the
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  subject is to feel comfortable to trust me, and you know I hope
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  that if they've seen work before, they they know that I'm
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  not going to be you know too mean in the portrayal.
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  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's the I don't know. There there have
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  been times when I've photographed like celebrity
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  events and like people who go like they look at me, kind of
• 13:03
  from the side, like oh, it's going to take a bad. Like I
• 13:05
  would never. I know that there are people who would, and would
• 13:09
  want to sell those photos, but like for me, it's like I don't
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  want to ever take a bad picture of somebody. I don't want to.
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  No,
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  Betina LaPlante: no, and unfortunately, those those those
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  photos do have a have a market because you know it's more for
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  shock value, or you know, trying to portray this person in a
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  different light. And I personally see no value for me
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  as a photographer in in doing something like that. I just want
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  to be a capture as honest a moment as possible, and and be
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  true to who I feel the person is.
• 13:45
  Casey Fatchett: That's a wonderful body. On that note, so
• 13:49
  when did was there a portrait or an image that you took or that
• 13:54
  you saw that made you realize that you could live in that
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  really honest space, photographically. What was was
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  there a moment where that really dawned on you, or did it just
• 14:08
  develop over time?
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  Betina LaPlante: I think it. It. I've always approached my
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  photography with you know, I guess trying to be honest,
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  especially with people, but it's something that I that I guess I
• 14:29
  strive to to to get those moments where I feel that the
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  person I've gotten to know is being portrayed. It doesn't
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  always happen all the time, you know. Sometimes someone will put
• 14:44
  not walls up, but you know they they they they give the persona
• 14:47
  that they think people want to see, and and if you have the
• 14:53
  time, then it's nice to wait until they just forget that and.
• 15:01
  You know, maybe it's an unscripted moment where they're
• 15:04
  not looking at the camera, where they're taking an internal
• 15:08
  break, or we're both kind of taking an internal break, and
• 15:13
  and those moments can be some of the most wonderful, spontaneous
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  and and honest ones.
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  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's the allowing you to be yourself. I
• 15:25
  think that we were talking about like that sort of the persona
• 15:29
  that comes up. People have that. That even doesn't matter who
• 15:32
  they are. I think that there there are people who feel like
• 15:35
  they once they everyday events that photograph whatever like
• 15:40
  not, you know, people who are used to being photographed, but
• 15:43
  anyone who sees that there's a camera pointed towards them can
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  put up that sort of mask persona that they think that oh, this is
• 15:51
  what I'm supposed to do when a camera is pointed at me, as
• 15:54
  opposed to like just and it changes. It changes the look of
• 15:59
  their face.
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  Betina LaPlante: Well, I think famously, Marilyn Monroe was
• 16:04
  known to be that. You know, she could be as incognito as she
• 16:12
  wanted, and I can't remember. I read somewhere where she said
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  she was with someone on a street, and no one paid
• 16:19
  attention, and she turned to who she was with, and she said, "Do
• 16:23
  you want to see her? And she just suddenly her whole attitude
• 16:28
  changed, and she became the Marilyn Monroe. Right. Then, and
• 16:32
  people started noticing her then. So yeah, in terms of the
• 16:36
  persona, you know, some people know how to perform to a lens.
• 16:42
  Casey Fatchett: Yes. So
• 16:43
  Betina LaPlante: yeah, it's you know, and and if they perform
• 16:45
  really well, it's waiting for them to just stop that
• 16:49
  performance, so you can get that little maybe that vulnerability
• 16:55
  that they don't often show. But yeah, I keep going back to that
• 16:59
  honesty.
• 17:01
  Casey Fatchett: So would you consider yourself more of a
• 17:06
  witness in that sense, or are you directing in any way when
• 17:11
  you have
• 17:12
  Betina LaPlante: Hmm very seldom? I don't consider myself
• 17:17
  directing as a director in the shoot. No, I mean, if someone is
• 17:23
  really, or if if I see something that I don't particularly think
• 17:29
  works within the context of the frame, then I might say, "Can
• 17:33
  you just turn slightly? Or depends where the light is
• 17:37
  coming from. I tend to shoot with natural light, so you know,
• 17:41
  if the light is just not hitting right, then I will direct in
• 17:45
  that respect. But I just you know I do encourage the person
• 17:51
  just to relax, do whatever they want. I in in the in the moments
• 17:57
  before I pick up the camera, I say if you want to use your
• 18:00
  hands by all means. I love hands. I think they're just so
• 18:05
  expressive and say so much about a person. So hands in portraits,
• 18:10
  or even portraits of hands, which sometimes you know I'll
• 18:14
  just sort of take the lens straight down to the hands and
• 18:17
  shoot them rather than the face. So so I. Before we start, I just
• 18:24
  say feel free to do whatever you want, and for the most part,
• 18:29
  especially with someone who is used to being in front of the
• 18:31
  lens, they really know how to move, how to change, how to not
• 18:35
  be the same, express, give the same expression, but at the same
• 18:41
  time, going back to when they know how to be in front of a
• 18:45
  camera, it's waiting for the moments where they just, you
• 18:48
  know, not performing. Yeah.
• 18:52
  Casey Fatchett: Well, there's a sort of breath that comes out of
• 18:54
  people like they they when they let down that that sort of
• 18:59
  internal mask, whatever it is, yeah, or persona that they've,
• 19:04
  Betina LaPlante: and and don't get me wrong, I think some of
• 19:06
  those when they do do like you know specific performances to
• 19:10
  the camera, I think they they're great as well. I mean, there are
• 19:13
  many many, it's a big spectrum of you know getting a portrait
• 19:20
  that speaks about the person without necessarily having to
• 19:24
  have that honest. They can be performative as well, but I
• 19:28
  think it all stems. I think getting a good portrait does
• 19:33
  stem from trust and and them trusting you to to be able to do
• 19:38
  things in front of the lens.
• 19:40
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, to be allowed to be themselves or to
• 19:45
  perform,
• 19:46
  Betina LaPlante: or to perform, or to you know just play to the
• 19:50
  camera. Yeah.
• 19:51
  Casey Fatchett: So, what role do you think that is there?
• 20:00
  Creating an environment of feeling safe. Do you allow for
• 20:10
  discomfort to come into that space at all, or there's there's
• 20:13
  like, or are you heading that off if you have a sense of
• 20:17
  because sometimes if like you get a camera shy person, or
• 20:23
  somebody who doesn't want to open up entirely, even though
• 20:29
  you've had some time to get up, are you allowing for that, or
• 20:33
  are you actively like sort of not actively, but we talked
• 20:36
  about like you're not directing, but driving the conversation
• 20:42
  more towards a a openness as opposed to like allowing that
• 20:49
  discomfort to be the reality.
• 20:54
  Betina LaPlante: Well, I don't know if I've ever had anyone
• 20:58
  really be that have to have any kind of strong level of
• 21:03
  discomfort that I'm aware of, especially with people that are
• 21:11
  used to being in the public eye with friends and stuff, no,
• 21:15
  there is already a trust, and so even if there, I did do a
• 21:21
  portrait session with a dear friend who I met at art college
• 21:26
  many years ago, and we reconnected after COVID, and so
• 21:32
  I hadn't seen her in a long time. And she's a photographer,
• 21:35
  and she really dislikes being in front of the camera, which I
• 21:39
  totally sympathize with. with, and she called me and said,
• 21:45
  "Would you take some portraits? Because I feel that if anyone
• 21:49
  has to point the camera, I can trust you to do it. And I felt,
• 21:53
  you know, that was a just such a compliment and and really a
• 21:59
  privilege to be able to work with her, and it was the first
• 22:03
  time I shot tethered because I usually never attached to a
• 22:11
  computer or anything or a screen, but I wanted her to feel
• 22:16
  part of the process as well, so that there was an added so so
• 22:23
  that she didn't have to go and and and say okay I'm really
• 22:26
  nervous because I don't know what's going on so we tethered
• 22:28
  to the computer just she looked great by the way and she's
• 22:33
  beautiful and she's just someone who hates being in front of the
• 22:37
  camera so I thought that was an important. Step to take in in
• 22:44
  that session, and it was great. And we ended up having a
• 22:48
  wonderful time, and we booked a studio for two hours, and
• 22:52
  literally the hours flew by, and and we're going to do it again.
• 22:58
  But that was the only the only time that I guess I shot someone
• 23:02
  who I was there was a palpable level of discomfort, which
• 23:10
  dissipated pretty pretty early on in this session.
• 23:13
  Casey Fatchett: Well, that speaks to your skills as a
• 23:17
  communicator. That personally, I think, and I've I've been on
• 23:19
  that side too many times where people were like, "I don't like
• 23:22
  having my picture taken, but I know that I trust you to get a
• 23:25
  good photo of me. And I think that it's the the willingness to
• 23:35
  be there with somebody and say, "Like, okay, I know, I
• 23:38
  understand, like, and to let them know, like, I can feel that
• 23:42
  you're. I can relate. Yeah, I can relate to it. That's the
• 23:45
  first thing that I say to somebody who I can tell is just
• 23:47
  like not really feeling like super comfortable. Is like, I
• 23:50
  know, I understand, I'm exactly that way, and that usually lets
• 23:53
  some of the steam out. But I think what you were mentioning
• 23:56
  about shooting tethered is really important thing to note.
• 23:59
  Like, not everybody. You probably shouldn't shoot
• 24:02
  tethered with everybody.
• 24:04
  Betina LaPlante: No, no, no. And as I said, that was my only time
• 24:06
  because I just, I just wanted her to feel, you know, that we
• 24:10
  were safe. And and if she wanted to have a note, or she was like,
• 24:14
  oh no, that angle looks, or not so much the angle, but the
• 24:17
  light. We only shot with one light. We were in a studio, so
• 24:22
  she. I just wanted to have some involvement. She didn't look at
• 24:25
  the the monitor all the time, but I would just show her the
• 24:30
  setup. You know, if I move the lighter on, just so that she
• 24:34
  Casey Fatchett: a safety net. Exactly. I think that's why I'm
• 24:37
  saying like sometimes like I usually don't either, but there
• 24:39
  are times when I do because I feel like this person needs to
• 24:44
  have some other sort of reassurance, and not just me
• 24:49
  saying, "Oh, this looks great, and I, you know, you can trust
• 24:52
  me to do this. But like when they see the photo, they they.
• 24:55
  But I wouldn't do that with Eric because some people will just
• 24:57
  sit there and like pick it apart.
• 24:59
  Betina LaPlante: Well. That's the thing. Is I having done it
• 25:02
  once, and and this was quite recent. I realized why I don't
• 25:10
  like shooting tethered. I always had the immune to say, "Oh no,
• 25:14
  that doesn't sound right. And when I did it, I think, "Okay,
• 25:16
  well, I'm not going to be doing that unless absolutely have to,
• 25:20
  because then I don't even show when I shoot digital. I don't
• 25:24
  show the back of my camera unless someone specifically
• 25:29
  asked to see something. I'm not like, or if they they still
• 25:34
  haven't got a level of, or they they still feel a little tense
• 25:41
  or uncomfortable, then I'll show them and say, "But look how
• 25:43
  beautiful you look, or something, or look how wonderful
• 25:47
  the light is, and and they'll go, "Oh, actually, yeah, that's
• 25:50
  okay. And then, you know, back to being okay, yeah, we can, we
• 25:55
  can proceed
• 25:56
  Casey Fatchett: I think that's askill that would you know that
• 25:59
  sort of communication with subjects is something that a lot
• 26:03
  of photographers could benefit from. Yeah, like I see it a lot
• 26:08
  when I'll go to workshops with photographers I like and just to
• 26:13
  like watch them work. And the best ones are the ones that,
• 26:18
  even with models whose job it is to have their photo taken. They
• 26:24
  you know that they're like complimenting and being like
• 26:27
  okay oh like let's take a look oh this and like you're doing a
• 26:29
  wonderful job thank you for like just this sort of like not
• 26:34
  cheerleading but like just like being there with them and and
• 26:38
  reassuring in a way, like being a source
• 26:42
  Betina LaPlante: But I think that that I think it's nice.
• 26:44
  There are some photographers that are probably known to to
• 26:50
  not necessarily or to create a situation in which they're
• 26:58
  looking for a reaction that's different to what, because they
• 27:03
  just want something different. I'm not necessarily, you know, I
• 27:10
  would be I would be more happy doing that as a sort of a
• 27:15
  spontaneous happy thing. I'm sorry about the noise in the
• 27:18
  background, by the way. That's my dog squeaking. Rather than
• 27:22
  trying to get rise or you know shock reaction, but there was
• 27:30
  that famous and now I'm I'm going to show sorry coming.
• 27:35
  Casey Fatchett: You never have to apologize for that
• 27:36
  Betina LaPlante: I'm going to show my my ignorance sometimes.
• 27:40
  There's a very famous picture, and I can't remember who took
• 27:43
  it. Of the oh my gosh, Wallace Simpson and oh my god, what's
• 27:56
  his name? The king that abdicated
• 28:00
  Casey Fatchett: Edward Edward
• 28:02
  Betina LaPlante: and mrs. Sisson, exactly, and he was a
• 28:05
  well-known photographer, which I'm now blanking on. And his, he
• 28:09
  wanted to take a different, like a reaction portrait, and he knew
• 28:18
  that they absolutely love dogs above all else because I don't
• 28:24
  think they they ever they never had children. So dogs were their
• 28:28
  their life their their family. And in order to get a reaction,
• 28:32
  he reportedly said that he'd hit a dog on the way over, and as
• 28:39
  they reacted, he took the portrait, so there's there's a
• 28:42
  very well known portrait of Avedon. I was thought
• 28:46
  Casey Fatchett: it was was
• 28:47
  Betina LaPlante: that was that Avedon?
• 28:48
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I thought it was. I just wanted to make
• 28:50
  sure before I I looked it up. I was pretty sure that that was
• 28:53
  Richard Avedon. Yeah.
• 28:54
  Betina LaPlante: Okay. Well, so and I think you know,
• 28:58
  interesting. I don't know if I could bring myself to do that.
• 29:01
  Yeah, I run over a dog.
• 29:05
  Casey Fatchett: That's a. I mean, I would. I'm too much of a
• 29:08
  dog person even like consider that. But that's exactly.
• 29:11
  It's the. I mean, um, yeah. I mean, I could talk about like
• 29:16
  this was uncomfortable moment at a wedding I photographed when I
• 29:20
  had done the engagement photos for the couple, I had met. I had
• 29:25
  met their dog, and yeah, I'm a dog person. I was like, "Oh,
• 29:30
  we're friends! Like, I want to be friends with the dog. You're
• 29:32
  like the most important person at the shoot, and got to become
• 29:39
  friends with the pets, and you know whatever it's six months
• 29:44
  later, and I we were at the wedding, and we were getting
• 29:47
  ready, and the bride seemed a little down, and I was trying
• 29:51
  like, oh, how's the dog? And the dog had passed away. Like I
• 29:57
  thought this was going to be a. Like oh you know like let's the
• 30:01
  dog was not old so I was very surprised and I was like oh I am
• 30:04
  so sorry oh no yeah I was like and then like yeah you
• 30:08
  Betina LaPlante: thought it was going to be like oh yeah it's
• 30:10
  like an uplifting conversation icebreaker
• 30:13
  Casey Fatchett: right and I was like oh this is not good and
• 30:17
  yeah so like I had to find a way to dig myself out of that hole,
• 30:21
  which I managed to do eventually. But but those sorts
• 30:24
  of things that I I try to get to know people before they even
• 30:28
  come in, like even before they're in the room with me, I
• 30:32
  try to get to know people so I have a sense of things that I
• 30:35
  can talk about, just to like get them to open up, and so I know
• 30:39
  that I have a fallback discussion point, like knowing
• 30:43
  people love animals, is like a big thing. I will immediately
• 30:47
  start talking about my dog, and they'll be like, "Oh, like you
• 30:49
  just like see them like sort of light up and relax, and like,
• 30:51
  oh, you also like dogs, like that sort of thing. Yeah, is
• 30:56
  will get you know they know again. It's that feeling of
• 30:59
  trust. They're like, oh, I can trust you. You're a dog person,
• 31:02
  so that's a
• 31:04
  Betina LaPlante: absolutely. Well, you know, dog people
• 31:06
  usually are really nice people.
• 31:08
  Casey Fatchett: They're pretty good people. So, a technical
• 31:13
  question, as far as an extension. You know, you you've
• 31:16
  mentioned that you mostly use natural light, but I'm curious
• 31:20
  how your technical choices, like lenses, etc. just serve the
• 31:28
  emotional truth that you're after. Like, why do you think
• 31:33
  your your choices of of light and lens are serving that? Well,
• 31:44
  Betina LaPlante: I'm not sure. That's how do I answer that? I
• 31:50
  think my lens choice often depends on, or is governed by
• 31:56
  how much room I have. I love a 30-five. It's one of my favorite
• 32:03
  lenses, even for portraits. It is, for me, it seems to add
• 32:08
  character without distorting. I think it's a fantastic lens, so
• 32:13
  that is my go-to for many portraits. It's not exclusive,
• 32:20
  but it's what I will always take with me, and then I will also
• 32:26
  use. And some people may think, "Oh no, I use a Zoom. So I'll
• 32:33
  take a the two that I always take, especially on film sets,
• 32:42
  is the 2470 and the 7200 So, which is why I said, depending
• 32:47
  on space, I don't use the 7200 much unless I'm shooting
• 32:52
  outside. But indoors, I will use the 2470 a lot. It's a great
• 32:57
  lens, but I do love the 35 and natural light, because I confess
• 33:04
  I'm not very well versed with studio lighting, so I don't feel
• 33:11
  that comfortable. It's something I do want to learn more of, or
• 33:17
  just so I am comfortable in creating the light that I want,
• 33:21
  but for the most part, I get that from natural light. So,
• 33:25
  Casey Fatchett: if it's not broken, I'll fix it. But also,
• 33:28
  we're gonna we're gonna work on this. We're gonna we're gonna
• 33:30
  like add some tools to the toolbox. Yes. No.
• 33:35
  Betina LaPlante: Yeah. But but so you know, and often I will
• 33:38
  see someone if it's in their own home or wherever we are, moving
• 33:46
  around doing something, and I go, oh, whoa, that like that.
• 33:49
  Why don't we do something there? Because that is great, and it
• 33:53
  comes just by accident. You know, the the location, the
• 33:59
  setup, just because I, it's they walked into it and it looked
• 34:04
  great.
• 34:05
  Casey Fatchett: Well, it's seeing the light. I think that
• 34:07
  that's another skill that, when especially when it comes to
• 34:12
  available light, natural light that is you know occurring, like
• 34:16
  is being able to see it and know where to put somebody is a real
• 34:20
  skill that can, and it's something you can learn, folks.
• 34:23
  It's something you can learn, just like you be able.
• 34:26
  Betina LaPlante: I think it is. No, it is. But you know, it is.
• 34:30
  Conversely, it's a very wonderful tool to be able to
• 34:33
  recreate the light that you imagine with with you know with
• 34:40
  light, with studio lights, strobes. I tend to shy, really
• 34:46
  shy away from. But I, I bought some continuous lights.
• 34:55
  Casey Fatchett: It's great. When you're starting with artificial
• 34:58
  light, I think the. That continuous lights are the way to
• 35:01
  go because it really gets you. You can see,
• 35:03
  Betina LaPlante: you can see immediately. It's it doesn't
• 35:05
  feel as as daunting.
• 35:09
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
• 35:09
  Betina LaPlante: because you can see pretty much straight away
• 35:12
  what you're going to get.
• 35:14
  Casey Fatchett: Right.
• 35:14
  Betina LaPlante: So I think it is a nice way to start doing
• 35:18
  artificial light.
• 35:20
  Casey Fatchett: It's amazing. Also, I don't know if you're
• 35:21
  familiar with Johnny Edward.
• 35:24
  Betina LaPlante: Yes, yes, in fact, I was meant to meet Johnny
• 35:27
  when he came to LA. I can't remember what happened, and we
• 35:32
  didn't end up meeting. But unfortunately
• 35:35
  Casey Fatchett: He uses a lot of like constant like source
• 35:40
  lighting, and as you know, his work is fantastic. Yeah, really,
• 35:46
  really beautiful work. So, as as your style, you're like you've
• 35:55
  sort of developed this very to me as someone who's looked at
• 35:59
  your photos now for a few years, developed a to me a recognizable
• 36:06
  visual identity. Like, how long do you think it took you to
• 36:12
  settle into your style? Because I know we're constantly as as
• 36:16
  artists, we're constantly evolving, but to feel, and you
• 36:21
  already mentioned that you like you've always felt that you were
• 36:23
  going after truth, but sort of to feel like this is my style of
• 36:29
  capturing an image. How long do you feel that that that you
• 36:33
  until you felt comfortable, or do you not feel comfortable?
• 36:37
  Yeah.
• 36:38
  Betina LaPlante: Well, it's it's that's an interesting question
• 36:41
  too. I don't know if I would say it's my style or if it's
• 36:50
  recognizably me, but I started on a film, shooting film, and
• 36:59
  when I started getting more into photography, I was quite young.
• 37:04
  I'd just come out of art college, and I set up a darkroom
• 37:09
  in in a bathroom, and I found it so much. Well, it was easier to
• 37:16
  develop black and white film than color, so I went with black
• 37:21
  and white, and it became something that I fell in love
• 37:23
  with. I could do it myself, lose hours and hours in the darkroom
• 37:29
  creating these images, and you know, experimenting with
• 37:34
  different papers for contrast, for this, you know, looks, and
• 37:40
  I, for some reason, I've never been that drawn to color. So
• 37:49
  even with digital, I will, I will, you know, edit in color,
• 37:55
  and then I'll switch to black and white, and I go, oh, there
• 37:58
  it is. Here's my photo.
• 38:00
  Casey Fatchett: Here's my image.
• 38:01
  Betina LaPlante: So it's you know I I wish I felt more
• 38:04
  comfortable with color. I look at my work in color a lot
• 38:11
  because I'm doing more film stills. So obviously I have to
• 38:16
  provide color work, but for personal work, it's very much I
• 38:23
  still like my comfort zone and what I feel resonates with me is
• 38:29
  black and white. So I don't know if it's a particular site within
• 38:33
  the black and white. I don't know if you're talking about the
• 38:37
  actual type of portrait I'm taking, but
• 38:41
  Casey Fatchett: I think it's for me. It's the type of portrait,
• 38:43
  and also like the the fact that it's like black and whites, like
• 38:48
  I think is part of it. For me, it's the team. Like looking at
• 38:52
  your work, it's it's it's it's recognizable to me because I I
• 38:56
  follow you. I love your work, but it's like there's something
• 38:59
  I look at if it just goes through my feed, and I haven't
• 39:01
  seen who it is, or I don't see the screen. I, I rec. I'm like,
• 39:06
  oh, that's that's one of Patina's photos. So for me, it's
• 39:09
  like I think I think it has to do with the vulnerability of the
• 39:16
  subjects. There, there is something that is like that you.
• 39:20
  you, it's a truth. I see in in your subjects that you look
• 39:29
  after.
• 39:30
  Betina LaPlante: I I love that you say that. Thank you. And if
• 39:32
  if and if that's my style, then I'll take it.
• 39:36
  Casey Fatchett: Yes. Plus the black and white added in. I'm
• 39:37
  like, okay, that's patina. But do you think in those? Is there
• 39:43
  a thinking of that now? Like, there's is there a guardianship
• 39:49
  you have over those sorts of of that sort of I don't know
• 39:56
  vulnerability that your subjects have? Do you like the. You want
• 40:00
  to make sure that you don't that you're responsible for
• 40:05
  navigating. Like there's a line between you know I don't know
• 40:13
  revealing something about someone and you know like
• 40:17
  capturing the image or is there have you ever find that that's
• 40:22
  has been an issue, or
• 40:24
  Betina LaPlante: no? And I don't think I'm. I I don't think if if
• 40:28
  there, you know, if it's revealing anything, it's not
• 40:30
  revealing anything bad. I don't think you know. So so I no, I
• 40:37
  don't think so. I do tend to get quite close into my subjects.
• 40:45
  I'm not. I don't do often portraits from far away, like
• 40:53
  with the whole body. For some reason, I'm drawn in to doing
• 40:58
  more close-ups. And as I said, I love hands, so I do try to
• 41:03
  feature hands in my portraits a lot. So yeah, I don't know.
• 41:11
  Casey Fatchett: I think the hands tell you a lot about a
• 41:14
  person. Like you can, you can, I don't know. Like this is my
• 41:18
  personal experience as a photographer. You can disguise a
• 41:20
  lot of things in your face, but your hands absolutely.
• 41:23
  Betina LaPlante: With hands are very; they speak their own
• 41:26
  language. You know, if someone is interviewing and they're
• 41:31
  nervous, they can put on a front of being okay, but their hands
• 41:36
  are probably twitching and you know ringing, and which is why I
• 41:40
  like to take pictures of hands, or people have beautiful hands
• 41:46
  or characteral hands, and so yeah, I think it's so much part
• 41:51
  of a person that I try to incorporate. You know, as much
• 41:55
  as trying to
• 41:55
  Casey Fatchett: remember who. Now I'm the one who can't
• 41:56
  remember who the photographer was. There's a very famous photo
• 41:59
  of Muhammad Ali, where he's holding his fist out.
• 42:04
  Betina LaPlante: Oh yeah, and his the focus is on the fist.
• 42:06
  The focus is
• 42:06
  Casey Fatchett: on the fist and all the scars on his knuckles
• 42:09
  from years of fighting, and just like the character in his hand,
• 42:12
  and the photographer was just like, you know, that's like, you
• 42:16
  know, so often people are just focused on his face because he
• 42:18
  had he was a beautiful man, and yeah, and but he's like you know
• 42:23
  the contrast to that is his hands, which are like these big
• 42:28
  like scarred, you know like beaten things, you know that
• 42:34
  tell a whole other story about who he is as a person.
• 42:37
  Betina LaPlante: Exactly, exactly, and I think that's why
• 42:40
  you know they do. They they live almost a parallel life because
• 42:45
  people take care of their face, and especially when they are
• 42:49
  going to be photographed, their hands aren't necessarily
• 42:53
  something that you think about. So they take on their own their
• 42:58
  own animation, their own I don't know. They have their own
• 43:03
  character.
• 43:04
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah. I think that's interesting. Also,
• 43:06
  like when you photograph somebody who's worked with their
• 43:10
  hands a lot, like because I've done portraits of people who
• 43:15
  were like you know like physical laborers, and yeah, like like
• 43:20
  there's so much character in those hands that they that
• 43:24
  they're using them all the time. I just
• 43:27
  Betina LaPlante: I just saw a photograph of Bruce Lee actually
• 43:31
  yesterday. I was probably scrolling somewhere, and it was
• 43:37
  a close up of or it was him, but you could visibly see the
• 43:44
  calluses formed on his knuckles from the constant training,
• 43:51
  martial arts training and hitting, and they were-they
• 43:54
  literally look almost like buttons under the skin.
• 43:59
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I just looked at this. It's a little.
• 44:02
  It's I just looked up the photo, and I yeah, it's it looks like
• 44:06
  somebody put yeah underneath like his yeah
• 44:09
  Betina LaPlante: under the skin. It's got like these raised
• 44:11
  buttons or something. It's it's it's quite extraordinary. So
• 44:15
  yeah, hands have for people that use them, they do. They take on
• 44:21
  a or if someone breaks a finger and then they they it's I don't
• 44:25
  know they're like roots they can be like trees they are you know
• 44:31
  they're beautiful and and veins you know it's it's life I don't
• 44:37
  know
• 44:37
  Casey Fatchett: it's like you know expressive as much as the
• 44:40
  eyes but in a different way, you can really
• 44:43
  Betina LaPlante: absolutely
• 44:44
  Casey Fatchett: see a whole other side of a person by
• 44:46
  looking at their hands.
• 44:48
  Betina LaPlante: Yeah.
• 44:50
  Casey Fatchett: So, is there something, a type of emotion, a
• 44:59
  kind, a. Type of person or setting or thing that has been
• 45:05
  out of reach for you as a photographer. That there's
• 45:08
  something that you see as a goal, like where you would
• 45:12
  something you would like to capture in the future. There's
• 45:15
  something you feel like is missing out. You're missing out
• 45:18
  on, or or haven't haven't had a chance to do yet that you're
• 45:22
  what what's your
• 45:24
  Betina LaPlante: an emotion? Well, I guess I don't feel I'm
• 45:31
  missing out, but I I've never captured a person in distress in
• 45:37
  like real distress because I I I feel very. I would feel that
• 45:41
  that's an invasion of, unless you know, unless it's for
• 45:46
  photojournalistic purposes. I wouldn't necessarily want to
• 45:51
  invade that space. So I don't think I'm missing out. But if
• 45:58
  someone is in distress, I don't think I'd be able to point my
• 46:02
  camera at them, especially if you know if it's in the middle
• 46:07
  of a session, something comes up. I would put my camera down,
• 46:10
  so I don't think I'm missing out on that. I was just curious
• 46:14
  Casey Fatchett: as a as a goal as a like something you were
• 46:17
  maybe felt like oh I I would love to be able to capture, as
• 46:23
  was like, or or do you feel that you're getting? I mean, it's
• 46:26
  okay to say that you're getting what you want out of like your
• 46:28
  subjects. It's
• 46:30
  Betina LaPlante: I think I think I'm getting what I want. I think
• 46:33
  I'd be I'd like to be more. I don't know. I'm I no no I think
• 46:42
  I'm getting. It doesn't mean I'm getting complacent, or that I
• 46:45
  think, oh, you know, I've done it all. No, because every
• 46:48
  subject brings something totally different. So there's always the
• 46:54
  curiosity of what's going to happen at the next one, and I
• 47:00
  just want to keep photographing and and being trusted to do it.
• 47:07
  So yeah, it's not something I think. Oh, I really hope that
• 47:11
  one day I'll get to do that. More than oh, I really hope I
• 47:17
  get to shoot that person. Yeah. Is it
• 47:21
  Casey Fatchett: well? Is there a dream like subject that you
• 47:23
  have? Let's. I'm. I'm all about manifesting. You know, like
• 47:27
  putting it out in the universe. There's somebody you want to
• 47:29
  photograph.
• 47:30
  Unknown: Yeah. No. I mean, there's. There's so many people,
• 47:33
  and they've been photographed so often that I think, oh God,
• 47:38
  they'd be dreams, but they have been photographed often. That
• 47:41
  it's. It's. It almost makes it harder because you know someone
• 47:46
  like Tilda Swinton, who I think has got a fabulous face, she's
• 47:50
  just amazing, and William Defoe, who also is fascinating. I
• 47:59
  Casey Fatchett: think you like okay. So for both of those,
• 48:02
  Betina LaPlante: Christopher Walken, you know, I mean, it
• 48:05
  would be like that would be a bit of a dream, and and we're
• 48:10
  talking about celebrities here.
• 48:12
  Casey Fatchett: Well, people that people know
• 48:13
  Betina LaPlante: yeah, Obama would be a great one. One
• 48:19
  Casey Fatchett: of mine, it's like well, and there are also
• 48:21
  people who I would love to have on the show because they're also
• 48:24
  photographers. Jeff Bridges,
• 48:27
  Betina LaPlante: oh Jeff Bridges, yes, or
• 48:29
  Casey Fatchett: Viggo,
• 48:31
  Betina LaPlante: Viggo Mortensen, yeah yeah
• 48:32
  Casey Fatchett: I think he would be a really interesting
• 48:35
  Betina LaPlante: those two, those two I would love to
• 48:37
  photograph too. I mean, you know this,
• 48:40
  Casey Fatchett: but I think there's something to be said for
• 48:41
  like I think what you like you were talking about like Willem
• 48:45
  Dafoe like really tipped it off for me because you're talking
• 48:48
  about someone people who've been photographed you know 1000s of
• 48:52
  times but is there something new we can get is there something
• 48:56
  and that's that's the challenge in one way but also like making,
• 49:03
  or we, you know, reaffirming that this is who, like, what you
• 49:08
  get, like when you really get this person, I think that that's
• 49:12
  Betina LaPlante: yeah. I mean, for me, I'm sort of a curious. I
• 49:14
  wonder what I would get. I mean, it's not like I would try and
• 49:17
  compete with other people what other people have done because
• 49:20
  you know that's kind of crazy anyway. It's not a competition.
• 49:24
  It's actually just I think he is very interested in the arts. He
• 49:29
  must be an incredibly interesting person. So is Tilda
• 49:33
  Swinton. Very you know she's art oriented. So I just I think
• 49:39
  there there would be interesting to have a conversation with and
• 49:44
  have them in front of your lens.
• 49:46
  Casey Fatchett: I think this is interesting that I think
• 49:48
  everybody we mentioned are fairly cerebral in a way.
• 49:53
  Betina LaPlante: Yes, absolutely, and that's why I
• 49:55
  mentioned that they're interested in the arts is
• 49:57
  because they they they kind you. You can see, I think Tilden
• 50:01
  Swinton. I remember in 1990 mid 90s, did used herself as an art
• 50:09
  installation in at the London Serpentine Gallery, and she was
• 50:14
  for a period of seven days, I think, in a glass box eight
• 50:20
  hours of the day, and she just lay there as a living
• 50:25
  installation. And I think you know she's just an interest. She
• 50:28
  sounds like an interest in scenes. She comes across. She's
• 50:31
  got a great face, and she's always seems to be up to you
• 50:38
  know experimenting.
• 50:39
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, we're putting it out there. We're
• 50:40
  putting it out into the universe, Patina, so that they
• 50:43
  make bring those waves out there, so that you know
• 50:46
  hopefully comes back.
• 50:47
  Betina LaPlante: Yeah, but Chris Walken too. Let's put him out
• 50:50
  there. He's got a great face.
• 50:52
  Casey Fatchett: I've met him in person, and like, what an
• 50:55
  interesting, interesting person. Like, he's just
• 50:58
  Betina LaPlante: yeah
• 50:59
  Casey Fatchett: fascinating. I wasn't photographing him. I was.
• 51:01
  It was, but just like a couple of times that I have met him,
• 51:06
  actually, like, he's everything that you imagine he would be
• 51:12
  like and more. Like it's just the just supremely fascinating.
• 51:17
  So yeah, I would agree with you on that one. So. kind of wrap
• 51:23
  this up a little bit, like what you seem, and and you mentioned
• 51:29
  this like also is like from the time you started taking
• 51:33
  portraits of people to have been about like finding like the
• 51:39
  truth and being truthful to them and whatever, and and bringing
• 51:43
  out the the their internal real persona. What advice do you have
• 51:51
  for photographers who are still kind of struggling to find their
• 51:55
  voice and like like their specific artistic like. Like
• 52:03
  artistic voice, I guess is the best
• 52:06
  Betina LaPlante: Well, I guess I can only speak from my
• 52:09
  experience. The reason I love portraits is I actually love
• 52:15
  people. So for me, the the the people as subjects is kind of
• 52:20
  something that I love. So, if you, as a photographer, want to
• 52:25
  find your genre, your genre, your style, or whatever, it has
• 52:31
  to be in within something that interests you. Whether it's
• 52:36
  going out on the street, whether it's architecture, whether you
• 52:41
  know whatever genre of photography it is, it has to be
• 52:46
  something that you're passionate about. I am. I go on the street.
• 52:52
  I do take my camera, but I'm. I would never say I'm a street
• 52:57
  photographer. It's just also I. I am a bit awkward taking
• 53:02
  pictures of people. You know. without their consent. Yes, same
• 53:07
  here. I just feel very self-conscious, and and I
• 53:12
  wouldn't want that happening to me. Someone putting that, you
• 53:17
  know, what's that very famous guy who? Yes, the street
• 53:22
  Casey Fatchett: photographer who just like right in people's
• 53:24
  face. Yes,
• 53:25
  Betina LaPlante: yeah, with with a flash. Oh gosh, yeah, him.
• 53:31
  It's not. I'm terrible. I would ever do, and and I find that
• 53:38
  those they're so harsh and slightly caricatureish, and not
• 53:46
  always flattering. And I'm not putting. It's just not my style.
• 53:50
  It's just not me. I couldn't do that. So, so yeah. It's find
• 53:57
  find what you love to do, whether it's still life, whether
• 54:00
  it's people, whether it's street photography, whatever it is that
• 54:05
  you really love doing, some people love doing weddings. I've
• 54:08
  done five, and I vowed I'll never do another one. Well,
• 54:12
  Casey Fatchett: it's it's that's you know if I'm paraphrasing
• 54:16
  here, and again trying to think if it's Eli Reed or who said
• 54:20
  this? But it's like if you don't have anything to say about your
• 54:24
  subject, your photos aren't going to say much. Yeah, yeah.
• 54:28
  So I think that that's I might be paraphrasing there probably,
• 54:32
  but like that sort of sense of like if you aren't interested in
• 54:38
  your subject, the photos aren't going to be interesting.
• 54:43
  Betina LaPlante: You know, Martin Parr was wonderful
• 54:45
  because he depicted scenes of everyday life in a wonderful way
• 54:50
  with the colors and who? Oh my gosh! I probably remember the
• 54:55
  this the guy's name. He's so famous. As soon as we hang up,
• 54:59
  the you know. The flash photography in your face. Yeah,
• 55:06
  but so yeah, yeah, that would be my advice if I, you know, Bruce
• 55:12
  Gilder. Bruce Gilles and that's the one.
• 55:16
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, yeah, very famous. Just walking up to
• 55:21
  people on like street corners and
• 55:24
  Unknown: yes, and just coming up with a flash and really in your
• 55:26
  face and shocking and slow. So you know the reactions are the
• 55:31
  result.
• 55:32
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
• 55:33
  Betina LaPlante: and
• 55:34
  Casey Fatchett: and really that's there's there's a
• 55:35
  difference there between influencing the image. image,
• 55:43
  like creating the the moment, and sort of being the witness to
• 55:49
  the moment and capturing a moment that happens. This is
• 55:52
  real, like whether you want to. Yes,
• 55:54
  Betina LaPlante: it's it's different approaches to to
• 55:58
  street photography, and personally, that was that that I
• 56:03
  could never, you know, adopt that approach. Well,
• 56:06
  Casey Fatchett: as you mentioned before, with Avedon, though,
• 56:08
  like when he's like saying that about the dog, like eating a
• 56:11
  dog, like it's that is like completely influencing the
• 56:15
  moment, and like and and yes, in whichever positive or negative
• 56:19
  way, like it is a way of inserting. I mean, I I am a I
• 56:26
  feel like you and I are in a similar like or of a similar
• 56:30
  house as far as the way in which we approach photographing people
• 56:33
  because I want to just bring the real person out as opposed to
• 56:39
  manufacture a a sort of like a moment or a reaction that I that
• 56:47
  this is the particular reaction that I want to get. I think that
• 56:49
  that there are ways of encouraging getting those
• 56:52
  reactions, whatever they may be, as opposed to like sort of
• 56:56
  manufacturing it. But
• 56:58
  Betina LaPlante: yeah, I mean there are there are some
• 56:59
  manufactured portraits that are wonderful, and again, I'm so
• 57:05
  sorry. I'm so bad with names, and they escape me. But there is
• 57:08
  a photographer that purposely gives prompts to his subject,
• 57:12
  and then he does a series of of portraits of the person reacting
• 57:19
  to those prompts and and coming up, so it's it's it's basically
• 57:25
  almost like having a mini role, miniature role, driven by these
• 57:28
  prompts that the photographer gives them, and and they're
• 57:31
  quite funny, interesting, and that's kind of a nice
• 57:35
  interaction as well because they're just playing.
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  Unknown: Now for my favorite part of the show, what's that
• 1:00:32
  say? Useless information. This is always death.
• 1:00:39
  Casey Fatchett: So, Bettina, the useless information for this
• 1:00:42
  episode. You may have heard this because I heard it on QI. So I
• 1:00:45
  don't know if you may you may have caught this or not. Human
• 1:00:48
  beings cannot sense wetness, like moisture.
• 1:00:54
  Betina LaPlante: What they can't sense what
• 1:00:56
  Casey Fatchett: can't sense wetness.
• 1:00:59
  Betina LaPlante: Wetness.
• 1:01:00
  Casey Fatchett: Yes, we infer based on other data that our
• 1:01:06
  senses give us, like textures and humidity and other
• 1:01:14
  Betina LaPlante: temperature.
• 1:01:14
  Casey Fatchett: Temperature, which is why people tend to
• 1:01:16
  think cold things are wet, even if they're not. Tend to think
• 1:01:20
  that the cold a cold item is wet, even if it isn't, we infer
• 1:01:25
  our brain makes up and says, "Okay, that's wet, but we have
• 1:01:30
  no hydro receptors in our like. Whereas things I
• 1:01:33
  Betina LaPlante: I hadn't, I didn't know that, so I learned
• 1:01:36
  something new today.
• 1:01:37
  Casey Fatchett: You did, and I think that. But what I think is
• 1:01:39
  interesting about that is like, is that not our sense of like
• 1:01:42
  what is like how do we determine? And they're like, oh
• 1:01:44
  no no, there are other because scientists have found that there
• 1:01:47
  are other animals that have like literally have hydro receptors
• 1:01:50
  in their skin or whatever that says like this is water or this
• 1:01:56
  is a liquid. Like can sense that it's a sense that things are
• 1:02:00
  liquid, but humans don't. They just, which is why it can be
• 1:02:04
  fooled, like that sense of you can like touch a cold piece of
• 1:02:08
  metal that has no moisture on it whatsoever. People will, if
• 1:02:12
  they're blindfolded, will sometimes think it's wet just
• 1:02:15
  because
• 1:02:15
  Betina LaPlante: it's wet. Yeah. Okay, I didn't know then, but I
• 1:02:19
  guess our brain interprets the messages being sent, so we we
• 1:02:25
  know that it's wet. Just because that's the way we've been
• 1:02:30
  trained to interpret those messages, which
• 1:02:34
  Casey Fatchett: brings me to all sorts of other questions. As
• 1:02:37
  somebody who likes things with them, like then what do we say
• 1:02:40
  about vision because our brain is just interpreting a bunch of
• 1:02:46
  you know like electromagnetic or electrochemical signals from our
• 1:02:52
  eyeballs and makes that into a picture, which is why we can get
• 1:02:55
  fooled by like optical illusions or things like that. Like you
• 1:02:59
  know, so we I don't know. My brain that like gets me down a
• 1:03:03
  whole track of like, what about our other senses? Like you say
• 1:03:07
  we can't sense. Is it semantics? Is it semantics saying we can't
• 1:03:11
  sense what's what, or just that our sense of like how we
• 1:03:15
  manufacture it in our brains can be fooled? Yeah, I don't know. I
• 1:03:20
  think there's there's you know all of our senses are
• 1:03:24
  Betina LaPlante: you're getting very scientific, and it reminds
• 1:03:26
  me of science at school when I when you touch a cold object,
• 1:03:31
  it's not. And this reminded me of what you're saying is it's
• 1:03:35
  not the cold you're feeling, it's the monic the mole the way
• 1:03:39
  the molecules are moving in the object you're touching that
• 1:03:43
  gives you the sensation, and they draw heat from. So it's
• 1:03:48
  that you're losing heat rather than you can sense the cold.
• 1:03:51
  Casey Fatchett: Right. Oh, as a former physicist, this is like
• 1:03:55
  one of the things I love to talk about when it comes to film
• 1:03:58
  photography. Oh,
• 1:04:00
  Betina LaPlante: you're a physicist.
• 1:04:01
  Casey Fatchett: I have a degree.
• 1:04:03
  Betina LaPlante: Oh so maybe I shouldn't talk about this
• 1:04:06
  because I might be not saying.
• 1:04:08
  Casey Fatchett: No, no, no. No, you're correct. Like this is
• 1:04:10
  like induction and like all sorts of like what happens
• 1:04:13
  between particles, and I always think of film photography very
• 1:04:18
  romantically in the sense that like particles that actually
• 1:04:21
  touched and interacted with because we're just clouds of
• 1:04:25
  particles. Like some clouds are more dense. Like they just like
• 1:04:29
  sometimes the clouds are denser than others. But like when those
• 1:04:32
  photons hit your subject and there's like all sorts of
• 1:04:36
  exchanges and things going on, and then it comes and goes
• 1:04:40
  through that film, and there's a reaction there. That energy,
• 1:04:46
  like there's just been like a there's. I feel like it's been
• 1:04:50
  touched by your subject. That that film, in a way, has been
• 1:04:57
  touched by who am who. You were photographed, and it's a. That's
• 1:05:03
  just my way of looking at it. That's my very like romantic,
• 1:05:06
  romantic way of thinking about film photography. And you don't
• 1:05:09
  get that from digital. You don't get that from like it's just a
• 1:05:12
  then it just hits that sensor.
• 1:05:15
  Betina LaPlante: The the other thing is also you know in the
• 1:05:18
  chemistry rather the science science and chemistry aspect of
• 1:05:22
  it is when you are in a dark room, which I'm sure you have
• 1:05:26
  done much of, and you don't get this with digital. Is the magic
• 1:05:34
  of seeing images appear?
• 1:05:37
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah.
• 1:05:37
  Betina LaPlante: Not only do you develop this roll that you put
• 1:05:41
  in a camera and exposed, and there's reactions with the
• 1:05:46
  silver halides, or whatever the chemical is, but which are
• 1:05:51
  photosensitive. But then you put them in different chemistry, and
• 1:05:56
  they develop in a certain way with the shadows going one way
• 1:06:01
  and the highlights going another way, and then you expose a piece
• 1:06:07
  of paper to that, and you put it in a bath, and slowly you get
• 1:06:12
  this magical image appear. And that's why I used to lose hours
• 1:06:17
  and hours because there is an absolute magic to the process.
• 1:06:22
  Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it just appears. It just appears. People
• 1:06:25
  who've never experienced that. It's sort of a like it is such a
• 1:06:29
  it is it is magic, and you can I can go back to like thinking
• 1:06:33
  like oh this is why people always will always say like oh
• 1:06:40
  the like the indigenous people of the United States, or many
• 1:06:43
  indigenous people would say, like oh, you're stealing a part
• 1:06:46
  of me when you stealing and stealing
• 1:06:48
  Betina LaPlante: my soul. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:06:49
  Casey Fatchett: and depends your energy, and you you are in a way
• 1:06:53
  like there's that's what I'm saying. Like when you when that
• 1:06:55
  that energy that comes off of you, like you you are taking a
• 1:06:58
  bit of that. In a in a, I always. felt it was a disservice
• 1:07:03
  for people to kind of like laugh at that and be like, "Oh, you
• 1:07:05
  know, like what a silly notion to think that that's like. But
• 1:07:10
  in reality, it's quite real, and if in it is actually what's what
• 1:07:15
  the the energy that's coming off of them that is being like, what
• 1:07:19
  do I say, like reflected, and what does it really look like?
• 1:07:22
  What again? This is a whole like how our eyes and our brains
• 1:07:25
  interpreting it and agree on things that we see. I had a
• 1:07:30
  philosophy professor who was completely colorblind, so like
• 1:07:35
  discussing colors at all, like and what we agree on colors to
• 1:07:39
  be like we all just agree, like that this is you know like what
• 1:07:44
  x like that's what blue is like describe blue. Well, you know
• 1:07:48
  Betina LaPlante: the thing is what what we all look at the
• 1:07:51
  same for example the sky or a tree and you were told okay
• 1:07:55
  that's blue and that's green and that's a different shade of
• 1:07:59
  green. We only know what we see as that particular shade of
• 1:08:05
  green. We don't know what somebody else's green might be.
• 1:08:09
  Casey Fatchett: Right. There's there's a whole like it may be
• 1:08:11
  the same wavelength of light from a purely scientific
• 1:08:15
  perspective, but how your brain interprets it and what you
• 1:08:19
  really see, we have no way of knowing that it's exactly the
• 1:08:25
  same thing. That's the and his favorite favorite philosophical
• 1:08:29
  question to ask newbies was describe blue to me without like
• 1:08:35
  without like you know because I don't I've never seen blue, I've
• 1:08:38
  never seen the color blue, so describe what blue is to me. So
• 1:08:43
  he would just like, and people would sit there and be like,
• 1:08:45
  they're always trying to think of like, like they they going
• 1:08:49
  examples or something. Yes, like the sky. It's
• 1:08:52
  Betina LaPlante: It's hard to describe a color. It really is.
• 1:08:55
  I I would be probably like stumbling for hours trying to
• 1:09:00
  even come up with some sensical answer. but
• 1:09:04
  Casey Fatchett: that's-I mean-the point is that there
• 1:09:06
  isn't an answer. There isn't. There isn't a way to describe
• 1:09:10
  someone else's human experience. We each have our own. Look what
• 1:09:17
  our little conversation about not human beings not being able
• 1:09:20
  to sense what this got us to, Bettina, Bettina, thank you so
• 1:09:27
  much for being on. Where can people find your work and follow
• 1:09:30
  along with you? What would you like them to to follow you?
• 1:09:35
  Betina LaPlante: Well, any anyone who would like to see
• 1:09:39
  more, they can find me on Instagram. My handle is Bettina
• 1:09:43
  the Plant, all one word. I also have the same handle on Photo,
• 1:09:48
  the Photo app. I have a website, bettinaplant.com Yeah, the
• 1:09:54
  normal places. We will
• 1:09:55
  Casey Fatchett: include those links in the episode notes so
• 1:09:57
  that people don't you don't have to to type them in. So you can
• 1:10:00
  just go there and click on them and go and follow Bettina. Her
• 1:10:03
  work is amazing. You should be doing it.
• 1:10:05
  Betina LaPlante: Oh, great! Thank you so much, Casey. Really
• 1:10:08
  appreciate your time.
• 1:10:10
  Casey Fatchett: I appreciate you coming on, and you're welcome
• 1:10:12
  back anytime.
• 1:10:15
  Betina LaPlante: Lovely.
• 1:10:25
  Casey Fatchett: And welcome back. I hope you enjoyed my talk
• 1:10:28
  with Patina Laplante. Be sure to go into the episode notes and
• 1:10:30
  click on her links. Follow her on social media. Her work is
• 1:10:34
  really great. Also, while you're following people, be sure to
• 1:10:38
  follow us at the Nerdy Photo. That's at the nerdy photo, no
• 1:10:43
  dots, underscores or dashes on Threads, Instagram, Reddit,
• 1:10:47
  TikTok, and Blue Sky. Take part in all the crazy adventures that
• 1:10:51
  happen between the episodes, and don't get left out. And now the
• 1:10:55
  portrait is ready. What do you guys think? I know. Well, that's
• 1:11:07
  the method man, M-E-T-H-O-D. Until next time, everybody, stay
• 1:11:11
  safe and stay nerdy.
• 1:11:23
  Unknown: Who's your calling back to town? You better start.
• 1:11:26
  Listen, who's your heart been beating about? You better, you
• 1:11:30
  better, you better, you better. Listen.