Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / AI Investments That Improve Physician Experience, Revenue and Margins with Mike Lewis

Transcript

AI Investments That Improve Physician Experience, Revenue and Margins with Mike Lewis · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - The strategic agenda facing hospital and health system
• 0:04
  - leaders right now is not a short list.
• 0:07
  - Growth in a consolidating market, sustainable margins in
• 0:09
  - a reimbursement environment that rarely moves in your
• 0:12
  - favor,
• 0:12
  - a tech investment cycle that demands both urgency
• 0:15
  - and discipline,
• 0:16
  - and a workforce story that is still being
• 0:19
  - written.
• 0:20
  - Eker's fourteenth annual CEO CFO roundtable brings together
• 0:23
  - more than 1,500 executive level attendees and nearly
• 0:27
  - 400 speakers across four days of sessions that
• 0:30
  - are designed to help c suite leaders benchmark,
• 0:32
  - pressure test, and sharpen their priorities.
• 0:35
  - Not in the abstract, but against the real
• 0:37
  - decisions they'll face heading into the next year.
• 0:39
  - It's the kind of event you leave with
• 0:40
  - a clear sense of where you stand and
• 0:42
  - what comes next.
• 0:44
  - So join us November second through the fifth
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  - at the Hyatt Regency in Chicago,
• 0:48
  - and come ready to do the hard thinking.
• 0:50
  - Register on our events page at beckershospitalreview.com
• 0:54
  - by clicking on the events tab in the
• 0:56
  - upper right.
• 0:57
  - This is Madeline with the Becker CFO and
• 1:00
  - Revenue Cycle podcast, and I'm so excited to
• 1:02
  - be joined by Mike Lewis, CFO of Onvida
• 1:05
  - Medical Group. Mike, thanks for being on with
• 1:07
  - me. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. So,
• 1:10
  - Mike, before we kick things off, could you
• 1:11
  - share with our listeners a little bit more
• 1:13
  - about your background and more on, on Vida
• 1:16
  - Medical Group?
• 1:17
  - Be happy to. So I've been in health
• 1:19
  - care over two decades. I I spent the
• 1:21
  - first twenty years of my career,
• 1:24
  - with Banner Health as the CFO for Banner
• 1:27
  - Medical Group Western Division, which
• 1:29
  - covered a six state region.
• 1:31
  - And then prior to that, I was the
• 1:32
  - the system director of our physician billing ops
• 1:35
  - at Banner. So largely been on the ambulatory
• 1:37
  - side of things my entire career and then
• 1:39
  - came to Onvida
• 1:41
  - Health about two years ago
• 1:43
  - and have been the CFO of the medical
• 1:45
  - group. Anvida's
• 1:46
  - got about 650
• 1:47
  - providers spread across employed or,
• 1:51
  - contracted or strategic partners,
• 1:53
  - and it's located in the Southern region of
• 1:55
  - Arizona, right, just north of the Mexico border.
• 1:58
  - So in a in a rural geographic designation,
• 2:02
  - area that's got its its own unique challenges
• 2:05
  - even within the realm of health care.
• 2:08
  - Yes. Of course. A lot of systems definitely
• 2:10
  - are dealing with certain unique challenges, but there's
• 2:12
  - also a lot going on that I'm sure
• 2:13
  - a lot of organizations
• 2:15
  - share. Just to kick us off here today,
• 2:17
  - would love to hear, you know, in your
• 2:18
  - role as CFO,
• 2:20
  - how are you thinking about, you know, AI
• 2:22
  - investment? That's something that we're hearing a lot
• 2:24
  - about right now, AI technology.
• 2:25
  - How are you looking at these investments differently
• 2:27
  - than maybe you would say your peers are?
• 2:29
  - And and what does that return on investment
• 2:31
  - kind of look like to you in practice?
• 2:33
  - Yeah. With with many of the financial challenges,
• 2:37
  - that that are coming
• 2:38
  - towards health care and already in place, but
• 2:40
  - on the horizon, we've got some significant ones
• 2:42
  - coming the next two or three years.
• 2:45
  - It's really got to be centered financially and
• 2:47
  - fiscally around the investment in it. Do we
• 2:50
  - see the financial return? Yeah. I'm sure my
• 2:52
  - peers are probably looking at it that way
• 2:54
  - as well. But I think with AI,
• 2:56
  - we have to look at it not just
• 2:58
  - on the fiscal side of things, which is
• 2:59
  - a CFO is easy to do. We've really
• 3:01
  - gotta look at the continuum.
• 3:03
  - You know, so
• 3:04
  - the
• 3:05
  - how we interact with the patient, what it
• 3:07
  - means to the clinician, because the clinicians are
• 3:10
  - most expensive employees as a health care entity,
• 3:13
  - but also they're some of the most important.
• 3:16
  - And so we've really gotta look at the
• 3:17
  - broad spectrum of these, different tools and specifically
• 3:21
  - AI. How we can leverage those tools to
• 3:23
  - improve the patient experience, improve the physician or
• 3:26
  - clinician experience,
• 3:28
  - and then still generate an ROI to the
• 3:30
  - organization to where it's a win for everybody
• 3:32
  - within the organization and outside the organization.
• 3:35
  - Yeah. And, you know, obviously, there's a lot
• 3:39
  - of pilot programs we're seeing or, you know,
• 3:41
  - just so many different things that you can
• 3:43
  - invest in terms of AI. So would you
• 3:45
  - say from the financial seat, is AI actually
• 3:48
  - moving your margin needle or are you still
• 3:50
  - seeing, you know, mostly promises in these these
• 3:52
  - pilot programs?
• 3:54
  - No. We've we've at at the onset of
• 3:56
  - looking at AI systems and implementation,
• 3:59
  - we were very prescriptive of making sure that
• 4:01
  - we had quantifiable outcomes
• 4:03
  - with the data specifically from a financial standpoint
• 4:06
  - so that we could see what that investment
• 4:08
  - meant and what it was yielding, you know,
• 4:10
  - throughout the implementation
• 4:12
  - post go live and then in the full
• 4:13
  - implementation
• 4:14
  - phase to see what that meant for margin
• 4:16
  - improvement for our organization. And we've seen fantastic
• 4:19
  - results so far.
• 4:21
  - That's great to hear. Do you have any
• 4:23
  - examples just in terms of your results?
• 4:25
  - Yeah. We've seen
• 4:27
  - so again, going across the spectrum or continuum,
• 4:30
  - we've seen a 14% increase in patient facing
• 4:33
  - time. So as I mentioned, I've been in
• 4:35
  - health care for
• 4:36
  - a little over two decades. When I started,
• 4:38
  - many physician this was really at the rise
• 4:40
  - of EMRs and EHRs. And as we went
• 4:43
  - that way, many physicians had talked about how
• 4:45
  - they wanted to go back to Superbills because
• 4:47
  - they just spent time entering into the computer.
• 4:50
  - They weren't looking at the patient. So that
• 4:52
  - 14% increase in patient facing time, although it's
• 4:55
  - not necessarily quantifiable, it's very meaningful to the
• 4:58
  - physician,
• 4:59
  - which helps with physician burnout,
• 5:01
  - physician retention.
• 5:03
  - We have 86% utilization of the platform that
• 5:06
  - we utilize, 27%
• 5:08
  - decrease in pajama time, which is defined as
• 5:10
  - outside the the clinician's working hours. So when
• 5:13
  - they get home I actually had an ENT
• 5:15
  - doc that told me he had to get,
• 5:18
  - a new hobby because he used to go
• 5:20
  - home, have dinner with his wife,
• 5:22
  - enter, spend the evening several hours entering documentation
• 5:25
  - of the system.
• 5:26
  - And now when he leaves clinic, he's done.
• 5:28
  - So that 27%
• 5:30
  - decrease in pajama time is meaningful.
• 5:32
  - 35
• 5:34
  - average documentation
• 5:35
  - time savings.
• 5:36
  - But those are, I would say, some of
• 5:38
  - the softer measures that we've looked at at
• 5:40
  - least from a financial standpoint.
• 5:42
  - We've seen about a $24,000
• 5:46
  - improvement
• 5:47
  - in our revenue yield by this largely by
• 5:50
  - throughput. So by making it more efficient for
• 5:53
  - the clinicians, they've, on average, been able to
• 5:55
  - see one additional patient per day. We've also
• 5:57
  - seen an increase
• 5:59
  - in our revenue capture and a decrease in
• 6:01
  - our charge lag. So this is where this
• 6:03
  - is very exciting for me because it's helping
• 6:05
  - the clinician. It's making their life easier. It's
• 6:08
  - helping the patient. And from a financial standpoint
• 6:11
  - or organizational standpoint, we're seeing that the a
• 6:14
  - real quantifiable financial return for Onvida.
• 6:18
  - Yeah. Those are some great examples there, and
• 6:20
  - that pajama time example is awesome to hear,
• 6:22
  - you know. Now they can actually go home
• 6:24
  - and enjoy dinner with their family and not
• 6:26
  - have to get right to,
• 6:27
  - additional,
• 6:28
  - work. So that's great to hear.
• 6:31
  - Kinda shifting gears a little bit now. You
• 6:33
  - know, we're seeing payer pressure continue to tighten.
• 6:36
  - How would you say you're approaching that balance
• 6:38
  - between cost containment and finding new revenue opportunities?
• 6:42
  - Where does technology kind of fit into this
• 6:44
  - equation for you?
• 6:45
  - Again, as I mentioned at the start, the
• 6:47
  - majority of my career has been on the
• 6:48
  - ambulatory side of things. And and I I
• 6:50
  - can tell you, I've had countless coding audits,
• 6:54
  - whether internal or external,
• 6:56
  - done with physicians.
• 6:57
  - And oftentimes,
• 6:59
  - the resounding response has been
• 7:01
  - that the documentation
• 7:03
  - doesn't match the care that was rendered. And
• 7:06
  - many times,
• 7:07
  - what that equated to is that the physician
• 7:10
  - may have rendered the care of, let's say,
• 7:12
  - a nine nine two one four, so level
• 7:14
  - four E and M visit, but their documentation
• 7:17
  - was a level three.
• 7:18
  - And sometimes that's because the physician would be
• 7:20
  - risk adverse or others, but it's really compliantly
• 7:24
  - and accurately capturing
• 7:25
  - the care that's rendered
• 7:27
  - into the chart that then makes it, you
• 7:29
  - know, able to get billed to the payers,
• 7:31
  - reduces the denial chances,
• 7:34
  - and has the the documentation to support it.
• 7:36
  - And this tool, what we've seen with that
• 7:38
  - is we've seen that as the the Ambient
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  - is,
• 7:42
  - AI tool is listening, it's fully capturing the
• 7:44
  - conversation. It's capturing the complexities, everything that's going
• 7:47
  - on that helps capture
• 7:50
  - the level of code that should be built
• 7:51
  - for the e and m piece. But we've
• 7:53
  - also seen an increase in the capture of
• 7:55
  - billable supplies.
• 7:57
  - You know, so as the m a's coming
• 7:58
  - in and out of the room or if
• 8:00
  - something's handed to the patient. So I think,
• 8:03
  - you know, that that's very helpful. On the
• 8:04
  - payer side of things, though, just really getting
• 8:06
  - the documentation to match the care that's rendered
• 8:08
  - to reduce the denial chances.
• 8:10
  - And then also, as I mentioned earlier, speeding
• 8:13
  - up the charge entry lag to get those
• 8:15
  - claims out the door quicker have helped speed
• 8:17
  - up the revenue cycle process and,
• 8:19
  - get the cash in the door.
• 8:21
  - And, you know, maybe for other CFOs or
• 8:23
  - finance leaders listening to this podcast,
• 8:26
  - what advice would you give them maybe for
• 8:28
  - people who are trying to kind of build
• 8:29
  - a case for AI internally when results can
• 8:32
  - sometimes be kinda difficult to predict?
• 8:35
  - Yeah. We spent so I met with our
• 8:36
  - chief medical informatics officer, our clinicians,
• 8:39
  - our operators ahead of time, and we all
• 8:42
  - sat in the room in stacked hands about
• 8:43
  - how we would define success. Because when you
• 8:46
  - have a health care organization,
• 8:47
  - you're gonna have different departments to find success
• 8:50
  - differently. And so we needed to look at
• 8:52
  - this because as administrators, we can say this
• 8:54
  - is gonna be the most meaningful.
• 8:57
  - But if we make that successful and it
• 8:59
  - increases the physician burnout and we lose physicians
• 9:02
  - from it, that's very costly to the organization.
• 9:04
  - That's very hurtful to the community because
• 9:06
  - whether it's in a metropolitan area or a
• 9:09
  - rural area where Onvita is, that creates access
• 9:12
  - issues. And then you can have outflow
• 9:14
  - of patients or migration
• 9:16
  - for the patients. And so really stacking hands
• 9:19
  - to identify
• 9:20
  - what the success measures are and at the
• 9:22
  - front end, having the data to make sure
• 9:24
  - that we can measure that. And and I
• 9:26
  - would say on Vida, we did that very,
• 9:27
  - very well on the front end to define
• 9:29
  - what success looks like, how we're gonna measure
• 9:32
  - it. And from the implementation
• 9:34
  - even to now, we're measuring those results to
• 9:37
  - to see, k, is it hitting on all
• 9:38
  - the marks across the organization, not just financially
• 9:41
  - or operationally or from a clinician standpoint?
• 9:45
  - Looking to the future, I guess, final question
• 9:47
  - for you here today. You know, you it's
• 9:50
  - just from what you've explained today, you've seen
• 9:52
  - a lot of success so far. What is
• 9:54
  - your hope for for technology just in in
• 9:56
  - a finance lens, I guess, in in health
• 9:58
  - care?
• 10:00
  - Yeah. I
• 10:01
  - think a lot of people will say getting
• 10:03
  - people to work to their top of their
• 10:05
  - license. But
• 10:06
  - within health care, there's
• 10:08
  - in
• 10:09
  - several other sectors as well, there's work that
• 10:11
  - I think could be replaced by AI and,
• 10:14
  - frankly, frees people up to do more of
• 10:16
  - the patient facing things. Like, health care is
• 10:18
  - about the patients. It get it is
• 10:21
  - a very personal interaction. And I think with
• 10:23
  - AI, as we can take those pieces off,
• 10:26
  - we can free up not only our staff
• 10:27
  - and our clinicians
• 10:29
  - and administrators, but get get AI to do
• 10:32
  - those pieces that are probably better that reduce
• 10:34
  - the human error aspect or the if there's
• 10:37
  - duplication or redundancies.
• 10:39
  - Just get them to do get AI to
• 10:42
  - do that
• 10:43
  - That frees up the resources to do the
• 10:44
  - other things to really get back to the
• 10:46
  - personal aspect, but it also helps financially
• 10:49
  - with the financial,
• 10:50
  - return that we see from the investment of
• 10:52
  - it. And so I I think all of
• 10:54
  - that combined, if we're able to reduce the
• 10:56
  - physician burnout, if we're able to help
• 10:59
  - from our workforce perspective about having the best,
• 11:03
  - level of work done in the appropriate setting,
• 11:05
  - that's gonna help from a cost perspective. It's
• 11:06
  - gonna help from a retention perspective, and then
• 11:09
  - it's really gonna bolster our margins in in
• 11:11
  - the long run.
• 11:12
  - Yeah. Well, Mike, this has seriously been such
• 11:15
  - an insightful discussion. Obviously, such a hot topic
• 11:18
  - right now too with AI. So I appreciate
• 11:20
  - you hopping on the podcast with me, and
• 11:22
  - I'm sure our listeners will as well. So
• 11:24
  - I'm excited to connect another time.
• 11:26
  - Great. Thank you, Madeline. Thank you.