Latest / Not Right Now / Recycling Isn't Real, But Your Kid's Plastic Hoard Is

Transcript

Recycling Isn't Real, But Your Kid's Plastic Hoard Is · Not Right Now

• 0:00
  [upbeat music] Hey, I have three kids. They eat so much. We try to eat real food. We try to cook when we can.
• 0:10
  We try not to waste too much, `cause it drives me nuts, and it's expensive, and also for obvious climate reasons which is why the Mill Food Recycler changed our lives a couple years ago.
• 0:23
  It is an odorless, effortless, and fully automated food recycler. Look, we've had this thing front and center in our kitchen for, again, a couple years now it feels like, and it is just such a game changer.
• 0:37
  Way less waste, less smell, way less garbage, which by the way saves you money. No leaky bags.
• 0:44
  Look, you got peels, bones, stalks, whatever leftovers, dump them in the Mill, and Mill dries and grinds them while you sleep. Again, it doesn't smell, which I don't understand. It's sleek. It's actually sexy.
• 1:00
  Here's a question people ask, "How often do you empty it?" Good question. It's every three weeks. I don't know, maybe, and there's a bunch of us.
• 1:07
  Plus, there's a little app where you can control it if you want and set a schedule, and it shows you how much food your family keeps out of landfills. A delight.
• 1:15
  Look, you can get $75 off right now when you go to our special partner site. I'm gonna read you the link, but you should know it's also in the show notes, and you can just click it.
• 1:26
  It is mill.com/lp/important-not-important. That is [laughs] mill.com/lp/important-not-important. I couldn't remember that, so we put it in the show notes.
• 1:44
  It's right there for you. Check it out. Huge thanks to Mill for sponsoring our work and doing the right thing, and thanks to all of you listeners for supporting our partners.
• 1:54
  [upbeat music] My kids will have a pair of shorts and socks, and they'll just be in one place, and it's like they've been abducted. They're just there in the middle of the floor. They just took them off and kept walking.
• 2:07
  They didn't throw them. They just kept going, and you're like, "Why?" [upbeat music] Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this.
• 2:21
  We'll be talking about slash crashing out over topics like- AI homework detection, and they just don't do their homework...
• 2:29
  pride flags and dirty sports uniforms, and how many plastic Gatorade water bottles is it possible for one child to lose. It's not an advice show.
• 2:37
  It's a you're not alone, and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kinda show. I'm Claire Zaldy from Evil Witches. And I'm Quinn Emmett from Important Not Important.
• 2:48
  You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website notrightnow.show..show.
• 2:55
  And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet and then drop us a nice little five-star review.
• 3:03
  And reminder, you can send questions or feedback to questionsatnotrightnow.show. [upbeat music] Do you feel like talking about waste and trash today?
• 3:21
  I would in a sense that I was just talking to a friend saying, "It's like the ultimate not right now," 'cause I'm gonna go home, and there's gonna be so much shit in my house that wasn't there this morning on top of all the stuff that was there this morning, where I was like, "Today's the day I make them clean it up."
• 3:35
  Yeah. I mean, this all starts at home, right? Look at my, you know, hippy-dippy metal straw that I have- Mm-hmm... that, you know, our president probably thinks should be illegal for whatever reason. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
• 3:45
  I noticed a tiny Jolly Rancher wrapper on the floor downstairs, and the cleaning folks were just here on Monday, which is of course the whole big deal, like a lot of tears and angst to make the kids clean up for the cleaning people.
• 3:57
  And so I wanna pick it up because it's a little, tiny flaw on the floor, but it's not my candy. I don't like hard fruit candy. Mm. Why should I do that?
• 4:05
  And so I'm gonna walk past and look at that several times per day until the next time the cleaning people come. I'm not sure. But yeah, I just think it is very interesting...
• 4:15
  I don't know if interesting is the right word, but how your life changed, you know, trash-wise when the kids came.
• 4:20
  We should start with some context, which is no matter what your living situation is, how many kids you've got, stuff comes into the house once the kids start leaving the house, right?
• 4:31
  And the more and more people that interact with them. And that seems to just be the way it goes, but it is truly, like, untenable, and it turns out it's something that gives me a massive amount of anxiety.
• 4:46
  And I've been very straightforward with them about that. "Daddy's being an asshole because your shit's everywhere." And I think there's ways to think about it and talk about it.
• 4:53
  Again, I've been a parent now for two and a half years, something like that, and I was up in the attic, and we're pretty ruthless about what we keep as, like, keepsakes and what we don't.
• 5:04
  And I'm somewhere between sentimental and ruthless, but I was looking at a bin, and it was, like, the oldest first toys- Right... which were the only toys he had for a year and a half. And then I look around and go,
• 5:19
  "Well, where the fuck did all this other stuff come from?" Like, when did it go from these, again, wooden toys, blah, blah- Right... to all this shit?
• 5:27
  And it's easy to be like, "Gifts and birthdays and Christmases," but that's not actually the biggest offender, I think. There is...
• 5:36
  Because I can identify those things usually, and we've moved through some of those things, and we've given stuff away, and yet the volume of little... Like you said, there's the wrappers, which is the daily shit,
• 5:48
  but there's also just stuff. Like, someone was playing this morning, driving me crazy with it, some bouncy ball. I'm like, "I've never seen that before. Like, where the fuck did that come from?"
• 5:56
  And I say, "Please put it away," and they just put it on the floor and walk away. [laughs] So it's actually that stuff that bothers me the most, and then I'm sure everything else would bother me more.
• 6:06
  But that's what, like, y-Really gets me the most. And again, the further implications of this stuff has to go somewhere. Like- Yeah... sure, I'm getting rid of it, but it's going somewhere.
• 6:17
  And I'm also, because of my job, aware that, like, usually we ship our trash overseas, most of those countries are like, "We're not doing it anymore." So let's start with the personal. Yeah.
• 6:26
  We've got three kids, so much shit. We're ruthless about getting rid of it. We've got a ton of books, but we're even good about, as we age through those, like a couple keepsakes and the rest go to the library to donate.
• 6:36
  But it's just stuff. It's birthday parties and kids and friends, and the stuff in their backpacks. It's the daily wrappers.
• 6:41
  I can't find my water bottle, but we have 7,000 water bottles that are cluttering up the cabinet. And that counts, too, I think, because you close a cabinet and you don't look at it till you open it.
• 6:49
  And I go, "What about these?" And they're like, "That's not the one I want." [upbeat music] I'm gonna tell you a little story here.
• 6:56
  When the iPhone first came out 2007, one of the first apps I tried to convince a coworker to help me develop was what I was calling, and people were calling, a read it later app.
• 7:07
  And that's 'cause we worked all day at ESPN, and we used to print up all the old ESPN Page 2 columns we loved, and then we would go and hide and read them on the company toilet.
• 7:18
  Wouldn't it have been great, though, is what I said, if we could just do that on our new touchscreen phones instead of printing them up?
• 7:25
  Anyways, 150 years later, I have tried every read it later app, all of them, migrating my archives over and over. But a couple years ago, I found Reader from the creators of Readwise and never looked back. It's so good.
• 7:41
  It's so fast. It's so smart. It works in my browser to save articles and read them and highlight them. It works on my phone and my iPad. I put it on my phone, on my home screen, instead of social media stuff. It's great.
• 7:53
  Reader can save it all. And because they also built Readwise, all the highlighting and syncing is flawless. Text-to-speech? Sure. Ghostreader GPT so you can ask questions of your stuff? Sure.
• 8:05
  Here's how you can try it for free, and Readwise, too. Right now they're offering you guys, my listeners, two free months of Readwise and Reader when you sign up instead of just one month.
• 8:16
  So when you sign up, you get them both. The link to sign up and get that extra month is in the show notes, of course, and it's right here. It's readwise.io/quinn, Q-U-I-N-N. That's readwise.io/quinn.
• 8:31
  Again, it's right there in your show notes. It really is the future of reading. I can't recommend it enough. Probably the most essential thing I use every day. Check out Reader today. [upbeat music] Yep.
• 8:43
  It's the volume of it, and we had a little issue for a while where, again, birthdays, Christmases, like, Grandma would give them stuff and stuff and stuff every week.
• 8:53
  And I go, "They don't even remember what you got them last week." And it's just so much. And I think that's part of the problem. So anyways, that's kinda my table stakes take on where we are at least. Yeah.
• 9:05
  We have these things that it's like we pay lip service or we try in certain ways. Like one of our biggest drawers in the house is dedicated to scrap paper.
• 9:12
  I was not, like, a scrap paper person until I had kids come along, because, you know, they'll take a piece of paper and make a tiny mark on it, and it... You're like, "Well, that's not done.
• 9:20
  We can still do something with that." Right. And then, of course, like, periodically you're just like, "Fuck it," and you go through and just throw it away.
• 9:27
  We have a compost service because our kids aren't even that bad about food waste, but you go from making zero food waste, you know, or only the food waste from, like, when you cook before you have kids, to your kid being like, "I'm not eating this."
• 9:39
  You know, like the congealed mac and cheese that you're like, "Well, I'm not... I have too much self-respect to just eat this," to get rid of it. So the composting service, that's nice in between.
• 9:47
  But I think for us, one of the biggest offenders is Legos, and I don't even know what to say for ourselves. We have so many Legos, it's like Scrooge McDuck with his coins.
• 9:58
  And there's no fighting it, 'cause the grandparents bring it in, and in your head you're like, "Well, better than screen time," you know, "and maybe he's learning how to be an architect." I don't know.
• 10:09
  Is this coding somehow? You know. [laughs] And, you know, and sometimes it is. Well, just like yesterday, our kid was bored, and I was like, "How about your Legos?"
• 10:17
  He's like, "Oh, yeah," and he went down, and it's a new set of Legos, so of course it's more trash, you know.
• 10:21
  But then sometimes the other one will, like, make a stadium and make a concession stand, make bathrooms, and you're like, "Okay, you're using your imagination." Mm-hmm.
• 10:28
  And all I can think is, "Someday we'll hose this down with bleach and give it to some other unsuspecting family or, like, the Park District or something like that."
• 10:37
  But the things, like, that are holidays, too, nobody knows until you have kids about the existence of tiny little erasers that are the size of your pinky fingernail that don't serve any purpose- Mm-hmm...
• 10:48
  aside from just being there to give and then to throw away. You can't give those away. Who are you gonna give those to? Mm. The Goodwill's not gonna take them, and they're not useful as erasers.
• 10:58
  They are merely only trash, and you have to put yourself in a mindset of just being like, I don't know, sometimes you just gotta take the L. I, I tell myself.
• 11:05
  Like, you're just like, "Well, I guess we'll just try harder some other way," you know, with our dumb electric car- Right... that is obviously gonna solve all of our problems.
• 11:14
  It's very easy to just kvetch about all this over and over and point out random things.
• 11:19
  Let's take this from the easiest things to sort of categorize on an ongoing basis and process if you need to, down to the more volumous stuff like the little plastic erasers and shit like that, but it's actually the hardest to get rid of because it's endless.
• 11:33
  So let's talk about, like, birthday and holiday things. Do your kids get a lot of things? Do they keep a lot of stuff? How do they do when they, like, move on from things?
• 11:43
  If you say it's time to move on from something, do they attack you? Oh, yeah. In fact, we... On Monday I used as a threat, I said, "Anything you don't clean up, I'm just gonna give away."
• 11:52
  And so, you know, that didn't go over well, but that's just the truth.
• 11:56
  And I don't mean to be mean, but between my kids, the young man that I live with and the older man that I live with, there's no discussion about getting rid of things.
• 12:04
  You have to do it under the cover of night, basically.
• 12:06
  Because if you don't notice it's there, you won't miss it, but then the second you're like, "Hey, I think it's time to get rid of this and that," then come all the memories and the tragedy of getting rid of things.
• 12:18
  So my mom loved to shop. She loved to treat them to things. She loves to wrap presents, which I have a friend who's a genius and they don't wrap presents from Santa, 'cause in their mind, Santa doesn't wrap presents.
• 12:29
  They just make them at the, you know, workshop. Mm. And I was like, "I wish we could do that." But to my mom and my sentimental husband, that's, like, absurd. Why would you not take a present and wrap it in paper?
• 12:40
  And so now I'm at a level of middle age where I will actually smooth out-Like lightly used paper, because it gives me a sense of control.
• 12:47
  This year, at least for James, we did this for Paul when he turned 10, his main gift will be a later bedtime. That was Paul's bed- That's good... 10th birthday. Yeah.
• 12:57
  But we also have the fun uncles who are also way over the top, and this year, I hope they don't listen to this, but we have presents every year at Christmas or birthday that I'll notice out of the corner- out of my eye that kinda went to the corner of the room and were not opened up, and I'm like, "Well, I'm just gonna disappear this."
• 13:13
  Mm. This will go in the secret closet of giveaway stuff that we'll either, you know, give to someone else as a birthday present, or I end up donating them to a fundraiser.
• 13:22
  And they're perfectly nice toys, but I'm like, "All right, fuck you." Like, you can't have a whole ass, like, National Geographic Kids rock tumbler that's been un- unopened.
• 13:32
  You know, you don't deserve to just have that sitting around for a rainy day, you know? Mm. So it's a little bit of strategy, a little bit of hiding, a little bit of being just mean, but they have so much.
• 13:41
  We have a finished basement, which was great, like, for us, for the house, but it is filling up, you know? And then our backyard also, I'm looking out here. Oh, God, it just makes me sad how much junk is in the backyard.
• 13:53
  And yeah, I think I've said before, I think the downside of having kids who are not that online is that they have a lot more shit, and they make a lot more mess. Sure. And you're constantly doing that trade-off.
• 14:02
  Like you said earlier, you're like, "Oh, this- at least it's not off-screen," right? Yeah. But there's still, like, a line. But you're saying if they don't see it for a while, it's fine.
• 14:11
  But the second you above board try to get rid of it, there's no like, "You're right, Mom." Oh, yeah. No, they'll never say...
• 14:18
  I mean, again, it always makes me laugh when I see someone being like, "What are some good volunteer opportunities for a three-year-old child?" And you're like, "Okay, this is not about your child.
• 14:26
  This is about you," you know? Mm-hmm.
• 14:27
  Or it's like when people register for their first baby, and they're registering for toys, and you're like, "Okay, this is about you wanting to think about your child using beautiful Swedish wooden toys," and just wait for when the Happy Meal toys start coming through, and you can't fight city hall.
• 14:43
  But yeah, I've asked them to, like, please set aside some toys you can donate, and it was like, "This, we can get rid of this pencil," [laughs] you know? And that's it.
• 14:51
  So I wish they were better at purging, getting rid of things, but I have my own life to live, you know, and I need to make some unilateral decisions.
• 14:59
  Are your kids very mature and level-headed and know something in, something out? I think intellectually, they do. Emotionally, and when it comes down to it, it's a struggle.
• 15:10
  I, this will surprise you, am mean dad about it. I try not to be. I try not to start there at least, and then usually that's where it goes. But for example, you know, books.
• 15:22
  Again, like, w- we've always been just pro books. Whatever books. Yeah. Don't care. People wanna give the kids a gift, give them books. Great. We can deal with that. We'll use it. It's important. It's great.
• 15:32
  We don't care what they read. You know, et cetera, et cetera. But we try to show, like, "Guys, we've moved on from picture books entirely.
• 15:41
  Let's all sit together on a Saturday for 20 minutes, go through them all, and you guys can pick, like, a couple that you really give a shit about. We'll keep them. You can give them to your kids."
• 15:49
  They're not gonna have kids. The world's gonna end.
• 15:51
  Then if there's still stuff you guys are maybe reading, like maybe the oldest read it, and he's been done for a year, but the youngest is like, "I'm doing it now," great. They're pretty good.
• 15:59
  And we give them to the library, and they get... They're pretty good about that because we go to the library every week, and I think- Oh...
• 16:05
  they can kinda see that, and I'm a real dick about like, "Hey, there are kids that have no books, and much less, like, parents who have time to read to them. Let's do that. That's a part of being a library."
• 16:15
  Just kinda like when they're assholes about keeping a book out of the library for a long time, and I'm like, "Well, you're not being a good citizen. You're being an asshole." Mm. Wow.
• 16:22
  'Cause some, you know when you get annoyed when things are on hold and it never comes in? I'm like, "You're doing that with this book to somebody else. Don't be a, you know, dickhead about it."
• 16:30
  And they're like, "So what? I'll just pay for it." I'm like, "Who's gonna pay for it?" Yeah. What? What? Anyways, there we go. Toys and stuff is a little tougher, aside from books.
• 16:41
  Again, like, "Hey, guys, you haven't used this in two years." It's always a little... It's both harder and easier, I've realized, for us because our three kids are so close in age.
• 16:49
  They're all kinda using the same stuff at the same time with, like, gradual moving in and moving out of things. Yeah.
• 16:54
  There's not, like, a 10-year-old and a three-year-old, where you're like, "These are eras of our life." Yeah. But kinda like we were with diapers, once everyone's moved on, that's it.
• 17:05
  And we just did the sort of more incremental version for years of, "Oh, we've kinda moved on from these. Now we're doing seven-year-old toys, and now we're doing- Right... nine-year-old toys."
• 17:13
  And then we really looked up a couple months ago, and we're like, "You guys don't use any of this shit, so let's really do this."
• 17:20
  And they were pretty good about it, but obviously they held onto some things where I'm like, "You still don't use this." LEGOs is complete fucking chaos. Yeah.
• 17:27
  Well, the great purging is another not right now kinda thing, where you're like, "When are you ever in the mood to do that?" Only pretty much when you have to do something else, you know?
• 17:35
  And I feel good about being sober, but I'm like, man, there was something really great about getting stoned and putting on a podcast and, like, doing some deep organizing, purging. Oh, yeah. You know?
• 17:46
  Like, like that was a great time to do that. But it's easier said than done to do that kind of stuff. I remember especially the big clothing changeovers. Like, that is- Mm-hmm... people don't really
• 17:57
  n- understand until it happens to you, where all of a sudden you're faced with a bunch of clothes that are, like, one size too small or one season out of date, and it is, like, an ordeal- Yeah...
• 18:06
  to transfer it all out and sort out, what can I pass on? Can you donate this pair of sweatpants that, like, technically is fine but has a hole in the knee? Mm-hmm.
• 18:15
  I guess not, but I feel weird about getting rid of it, you know? I feel like I imagine your daughter's too smart for this.
• 18:20
  Do you ever catch your boys biting their shirts and just, like, putting a little hole- All the time... in their clothing? All the time. [laughs] Yeah. And you know- Are they? [laughs]... by the...
• 18:29
  Like, clothing-wise, I definitely, I think, am a little harder on her than I could be because the youngest has never had his own clothing, new clothing ever in his life.
• 18:43
  He gets all of his brother's shit, and he's sort of excited about that sometimes.
• 18:48
  The oldest has been getting-Hand-me-downs from this now 16-year-old kid who my wife is friends with his mom in Los Angeles for his entire life, since they've been four. Oh.
• 18:58
  I used to say, "If he ever got kidnapped, they would think he was the wrong kid," 'cause it had the other kid's name in all of his clothes.
• 19:04
  [laughs] And so when she needs something new, I'm always like, "What, you fucking need something new?" But I think that's because, like, the boys have never gotten new stuff before.
• 19:13
  She doesn't have someone to give her that shit. I resent our neighbor 'cause I think he stopped growing, and we've stopped getting his hand-me-downs.
• 19:19
  But he would get really good, you know, athletic kind of stuff, like sporty kind of things. I hate shopping for boys clothes. It's just so boring to me, so I do the old Stitch Fix thing. We have a box coming soon.
• 19:30
  You guys ever do that? Like, you, you just, like, order a box of clothes and- No, I don't love my kids that much [laughs] For a subscription service? Fuck no. I don't... It's only...
• 19:38
  I only do it on demand, and I was like, "Oh, we're going on spring break. He needs some shorts that are not stained." Like Adidas gym shorts, you know.
• 19:45
  And then, of course, getting him to try the clothes on is quite an ordeal, and then sometimes he says he wants something and never wears it. But again, I can only ch- choose my battles.
• 19:53
  I mean, I remember it starting as early as, like, when we brought Paul home, like his first couple days of life, and I was always very stringent about recycling. And I was drinking my Diet Pepsi.
• 20:06
  I'm, like, one of the last people on Earth who drinks Diet Pepsi, and I was so tired that I was like, "I'm just gonna put it in the garbage can." And that was [laughs] like where it all began was like- Mm-hmm...
• 20:16
  I'm too tired to rinse it and put it into a separate- Sure... container. So you, again, you've got two of the same biological sex.
• 20:25
  Are they good about getting rid of st- I mean, this is the difference between toys and stuff and clothes. At some point, you just don't fit them anymore. That's not- Yeah...
• 20:34
  quite the same thing as, obviously, toys and shit like that. No, and I wish they were just organically more self-sufficient than this, but they're just not.
• 20:44
  And frankly, like, sometimes it's just often not worth, like, being like, "No, I- don't play outside. Don't do your homework. Let's do a big clothing purge." And- Totally... I will be the one who does that, you know?
• 20:55
  So- I think it's like you said, once it becomes my problem.
• 20:57
  Like, if I go in their room enough times over it and it's clear, you know, Dana and I were saying, we were like, "All, all we do is fucking clean up," and it's like, oh, but th- that's because there's too much stuff.
• 21:07
  Yeah. Right? And that's, I don't give a shit about their rooms, and I give a shit less and less, but at some point I'm just like, "There needs to be half as much stuff in here."
• 21:15
  Do you have, like, keepsake bins of, like, onesies they wore or, you know, like a pair of shorts with pizza on them or something? I'm pretty ruthless.
• 21:23
  I have one little baby sock that I keep in, like, my little keepsake drawer where I have, like, notes that I care about. Like, just- You have one sock? Yeah. [laughs] Yes.
• 21:35
  Are you saying that with admiration or with horror? [laughs] I mean, I just can't. I don't know. We really used everything, and they were gross. Like, they were formula drinkers. Sure.
• 21:47
  Maybe different if they were breast milk drinkers, but, like, all their shirts were gross, you know. That's incredible, though. That's borderline questionable.
• 21:56
  [laughs] If I went home and told Dana, I was like, "Here's the deal. Claire said we need to get down to one sock," she'd be like, "You can get the fuck out of here." I mean, I don't know.
• 22:02
  We have a neighbor across the street who has a young boy. Maybe that helps is that he's a little bit younger than James, so, like, he gets the good hand-me-downs, so- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm...
• 22:10
  I would get to see then this little kid wearing the cute stuff, so that would be sweet that I could, like, see it in action. But I don't know.
• 22:18
  I think it's 'cause I have a friend who's an only child whose parents kept everything of hers, and she recently went through the purging process on their behalf, where she went to their house and then had to encounter all of her childhood things.
• 22:29
  And I think part of it was, like, just dirting myself for... I've been there also as a child, and I'm like, I don't want to, like, be sad and touch the old things, and be like, "Remember when?" Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 22:38
  That's what we have the photos for and everything. Sure. And so- We've got two bins. They're not crazy, but we also have one additional child. Yeah, those could be purged further. Not probably down to one sock.
• 22:49
  Fucking psychopath. [laughs] I should explain, the socks are very cute. I mean, they have... I have binders of some of their schoolwork and things like that too. Oh, the teeth. Steve keeps the teeth.
• 22:58
  [laughs] I did fuck up, and I composted. Paul lost a molar, and I, and then I realized you can't compost teeth, so sorry. Someone's gonna get a tooth in their mulch, you know, in the next couple years, but...
• 23:10
  Well, here's the thing. Obviously, clothes are a whole different stress and anxiety thing with laundry, and do I have the right pants, and the kids demanding specific things. That's a whole different thing.
• 23:18
  I think I'm glad we accounted for them because they are a part of the shit around the house. My kids will have a pair of shorts and socks, and they'll just be in one place, and it's like they've been abducted.
• 23:31
  [laughs] They're just there in the middle of the floor. They just took them off and kept walking. They didn't throw them. They just kept going, and you're like, "Why?"
• 23:37
  So that does bother me, 'cause that's when it becomes part of stuff. And I'm like, "Stop everything you're doing and go put them in one of the 12 fucking hampers," or whatever it is. So that's it.
• 23:47
  But let's talk about the erasers, the plastic shit- Oh... the stuff that comes home in their backpacks, the stuff from friends, the stuff from birthday parties, all that stuff. The fidgets. The fidgets.
• 23:59
  Where are your anxiety and stress levels about that stuff? Are they similar to mine? Mine are not good. We have started some junk drawers, and also we suck at going through the kids' backpacks. I just cannot, you know...
• 24:12
  We just got an email from school, not us specifically, but reminding all parents, "Go through your kids' backpacks every day." And I was like, "In this economy? I think not." Especially both of them, they like to draw.
• 24:22
  There's just so many little wadded up pieces of paper and sticks, you know, at the bottom of their backpack. So I either will shuffle them to the bottom of the craft drawer.
• 24:32
  So it's more shuffle it away until it drives you crazy, and then throw it away. And, and think of the kids' backpacks, start of the school year. Please shed a tear for them.
• 24:41
  We don't buy them a new backpack at the start of the school year, 'cause if their backpack is still functioning, then you, like, sorry. So I will shake it out and throw everything away, and then wash it.
• 24:51
  Yeah, I mean, I don't know how else you can do something like that, unless you're like... W- like, what can you do? Like, especially with Valentine's stuff, Paul brought home-Some kid...
• 25:01
  There's some lady, I hope she- I don't know why she'll listen to this podcast, but there's some mom in Paul's class, this is the 12-year-old, who makes customized gifts for all the kids for Valentine's Day.
• 25:11
  And last time it was, like, a pill organizer, you know, old people kind, but for candy with everyone's name on it. Yeah. This plastic candy container that says Miles on it. My son's not... name is not Miles.
• 25:22
  [laughs] You know, I, I was like, I could contact Miles's mom and say, "Do you want this?" I mean, what else can be done? You tell me. You are the expert in this. There's no expert in this.
• 25:32
  Going back to our coping conversation, like, I really recognized how much house stuff gives me a lot of anxiety and stress, and how I really will take it out on the kids, and how much I can control versus what I can't.
• 25:44
  Like, they're gonna have stuff. There's gonna be things. They're gonna bring them home, this and that. Yes, could they, like, keep a better house? Of course. Should it feel lived in? Of course.
• 25:53
  But it's a nightmare and it really, really bothers me, things that just stay out for days at a time that no one takes accountability or responsibility for, and I'll say, "Put it away," and again, they just put it on a table and I go, "Well, that's the kitchen table.
• 26:08
  That's not where that lives." And the, the look in their face of how, like, "Well, where the f- fuck else is this supposed to go?" I'm go, "Well, it's either there or the trash." And- Yeah...
• 26:18
  I recognize that seems harsh, like you were saying, but I really can only take so much of it. It really does drive me totally crazy, and I'll be very old man about it. I'll be like, "Look at my Millennium Falcon.
• 26:30
  I only had one of these, and that's why I've still got it and why I cherish it. And, you know, you've got 67 bouncy balls and all this shit, and you don't know where they are, and you don't love them, and this and that."
• 26:41
  And they're like, "When are you gonna die?" Like, "When-" [laughs] Like, "When will this stop?"
• 26:48
  Now, okay, so this is funny, 'cause it makes me think of my husband is an only child, so, like, his parents cherished him a lot more than my parents cherished me and my brother. Mm-hmm.
• 26:56
  And so he will get back stuff from his childhood, which I hate, because it doesn't relate to me whatsoever. So a couple years ago, his mom sent us his old plastic childhood cups, and he was like...
• 27:07
  You know, to him it was good memories. To me, I was like, "Bye bye." They just sent us garbage for some reason. They put postage on it and sent it to me so I can put it in the recycling.
• 27:17
  She also once put in the shadow box all of his old Star Wars figurines, and he kind of was like, "I didn't ask for this. I don't know what this is about."
• 27:26
  And we busted it open so our child could play with them, and that was very sad to her that we took the toys out to play with.
• 27:34
  Anyway, your grandparents are both nearby, and I'm just curious, like, what their effects are, how they contribute to the overall- Mm-hmm... toy influx. You know,
• 27:44
  I am so burdened by things mentally, but I'm aware of, like, my increasingly small sort of attachment to things and sentimentality. But one grandma definitely brings in more than the others.
• 27:57
  But we've stemmed the tide on that a little bit, though I think there is some responsibility for the amount of stuff there has been historically.
• 28:04
  But I think right now it's like, where before was definitely more f- family members and friends and stuff, I think now it's definitely more friends, and events, and just day-to-day shit- Mm... that comes in.
• 28:19
  Because we've been really clear with the family, and we were really clear at Christmas too.
• 28:22
  Again, there's only five total grandkids, including my kids, my brother's girls, and my siblings and I are very close and, you know, they always get little things for the kids at Christmas and stuff like that.
• 28:33
  And we were both like, "No stuff. You can get them a book," but it's, like, this huge pile of stuff when they've already got a bunch of other shit.
• 28:40
  You know, when we tried to do a before Christmas big giveaway, fizzled out somewhat. They were aware of that, 'cause they were like, "It is too much. It's chaos," you know?
• 28:49
  And then you gotta pack it up and you gotta bring in all that stuff. So they actually did something fun.
• 28:53
  So my younger brother and my younger sister, neither of them have kids yet, so they're like Justin Bieber to my kids.
• 29:00
  They're the greatest things alive, and they decided, the later bedtime thing, they're gonna do a quarterly, like, Zoom book club with all their nieces and nephews. "That's your Christmas gift." And I was like,
• 29:13
  "Thank God." Of course, the day before, when my kids haven't done any of the reading, I'm annoyed by it. Yeah. But it's still better than just things throughout the house.
• 29:21
  So I think that's part of the problem, is like, we have done so much to stop the flow of things from the sources we're aware of that that's when I look around, and again, the bouncy ball, I'm like, "Genuinely, where the fuck did that come from?"
• 29:35
  And- Yeah... "And who gave it to you, and what's their social security number?" Oh. [laughs] Because I just... I can't do it constantly coming in.
• 29:43
  There was a while at my kids' old school where, I don't even remember what the system was, but he would go to the secretary's office, and I don't remember now if it was because he was good or 'cause he was bad.
• 29:55
  But either way, he would leave with a fidget. They had the treasure chest full of toys. But you try telling the school secretary to stop doing anything. Like, that is just not worth it whatsoever.
• 30:07
  You might as well just set fire to your own face. Okay, I have some, like, lightning round questions for you about what you do with certain things, if that's okay. Please. No, let's do it. Lightning round. Okay.
• 30:16
  So a kid has clothes that are worn out. You can't donate it, but they could technically still be worn. What do you do with clothes that are, like, holey or dirty but still somewhat functional? Gotta keep them. Keep them?
• 30:27
  Forever? Yeah. Do they still fit? I guess they could fit someone, technically. Can they be donated? Well, that's the question. Like, would you feel too ashamed to actually take them to Goodwill?
• 30:37
  Would you feel like, "I feel like this is just making it someone else's problem"? Oh, no. If they're in that range, then I guess I gotta f- fucking toss them. Yeah.
• 30:46
  I think it's a little like the pornography thing, like I'll know it when I see it. Even a consideration of, like, why would I ever give someone this pair of things? Then they gotta be tossed, which is terrible.
• 30:55
  A pencil that is got no eraser anymore, and is really splintery, but is maybe three inches long. You see it, what are you gonna do with that? Sweep it in trash.Okay. Your kids are in baseball. Mm-hmm.
• 31:09
  They assign new baseball caps every year. The last year's Little League baseball caps that are for a team that they're not a part of anymore.
• 31:16
  Keep them in the outside, like, sports bin that, again, only some things go in. Because when they tell me the next year that they don't have a hat yet, I'm gonna tell them, "You do have a fucking hat.
• 31:29
  You have last year's hat. Go get it out of the bin." This one is particular to my neighborhood.
• 31:34
  When the kids go to the local LGBTQ pride fests and they bring home a lot of rainbow marketing material for like insurance companies and banks that illustrate sexual identities that don't apply to them, or at least don't yet, what do you do with those things?
• 31:50
  It's like junk mail to me. Same thing. Toss it. Okay. How do you do your dog poop? I make my kids do it, which doesn't go over well, but I'm like, "That's the deal."
• 32:00
  So front yard, dog poops out there where she poops on her walk. Every morning before school, they gotta go out there with the bag, find some dog poop, and go put it in the can.
• 32:09
  Um- Is it like the dog bags, like the roll-up, you know, like the roll of dog- Yeah... okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nut butter containers. It's [laughs] so specific.
• 32:18
  'Cause here's the thing, when you know enough, it's like pizza boxes. You can't recycle pizza boxes 'cause of the grease. Are you washing out every nut butter container so that you can recycle it?
• 32:27
  Are you checking which kind it is after you wash it to make sure you're recycling in the right way? They're only one recycling in. That's not my problem then. Once it goes in there, then that's it.
• 32:35
  I, I also am like, "Mm, am I wasting water by using it to rinse out?" We can do this all fucking day. [laughs] This is my entire life. This is my entire life, just people going, "Look, I recycle."
• 32:46
  And I'm like, "That's great. It's not real." Yeah, sure. Oh, that's a tough one. But if we eat everything out of it, I'll throw it in the recycling bin and hopefully it makes through.
• 32:53
  But again, I, you know, red pill, recycling's not real. It's horrible. Continue.
• 32:58
  Ziploc bag that has contained a food item that is slightly dirtier than like half of a lemon, but not as dirty as, say, a slice of pizza, are you rinsing out those Ziploc bags and drying them out?
• 33:11
  Yes, and attempting to not use them for something that somebody will eat, but inevitably will. And I'll see them using it or heating it up in there and I'm just going, "Enjoy your cancer."
• 33:25
  Salad dressing takeout containers. Toss. Toss. Okay. Old electronics, what are you guys doing with? Mm. Old headphones. Useable. Old, old cell phone.
• 33:34
  Uh, like a, say you upgraded your cell phone and you have an old cell phone. We do the, it's still pretty wasteful objectively, but we do the iPhone Upgrade Program, and that's through Apple.
• 33:43
  And every year you send them your old one, and they refurbish it and sell it refurbished, and then they send you a new one. Which is still, again, you're still just making more shit, but someone else buys it.
• 33:57
  And then finally, toiletries. What are you using for soap and, like, razors? Good question. I don't shave because it's... Not right now. It's been this way. I used to go- Well-...
• 34:07
  on and off and, like, shave in the summer, and then I was like, "I can't do, I don't have time for that." I've been shaving since I was 12 years old. Soap and shit, talk about waste.
• 34:16
  I will buy them, like, a Costco size of whatever conditioner, doesn't have shit in it 'cause they swim, and so they actually need it or their hair is straw.
• 34:25
  And they will be done with it, three kids, and yet they'll finish it in two days. Well- Out of conditioner, I go, "That's impossible." Yeah. It doesn't run out. You can't use it that fast.
• 34:34
  And I know behind that shower curtain, they're just pumping that shit down the fucking drain. [laughs] Or they spilled it and the top came off and they're not telling me while they're in there and all that shit.
• 34:45
  I've been there, where I've tried to, like, scrape, like, conditioner onto my hand from the shower floor. Also, like, my kids can't use a, well, they're too dumb to know how to use toothpaste correctly, so like- Ugh...
• 34:55
  every tube of toothpaste is, you know, Mount Vesuvius. Let me ask you this question. Two kids, how many tubes of toothpaste are open in their bathroom right now? Real answer.
• 35:06
  You mean like full tubes or also including the ones from the dentist? Mm, in process at any point. They're not in the recycling and they're not opened. I'm gonna guess two and a half probably, off the top of my head.
• 35:16
  Fucking... But I don't, like [laughs] amateur. Amateur. [laughs] Amateur hour.
• 35:20
  We'll go do that and have all of these toothbrushes that we haven't thrown away, but then we'll go on vacation and we'll get, like, a Vrbo, and I will take home the bars of soap that we've- Mm-hmm... used twice. Mm.
• 35:30
  'Cause I'm like, "I know they're just gonna throw this away."
• 35:32
  So it's like these dumb trade-offs where I'm like, "I'm saving maybe $2 a year on soap," but also we have a laundry service 'cause I need one day a week where I- Mm... don't do the laundry. Got a good one for you.
• 35:43
  Are you ready? Mm, yeah. Christmas cards. Oh, I still have them all. They're in a bowl in the kitchen. 'Cause I always tell myself I'm gonna look over them or cross-reference them, but then, you know- What?
• 35:54
  For the same reason you hold onto your kids', you know... Like, I did keep my kid's baby hat from the hospital, so I have two pieces of mementos, but [laughs]... So Christmas cards.
• 36:03
  But it, now is this a standard thing every year where you look up in March 13th and you still got them in the bowl? Oh, yeah, they are 100% in the bowl, along with the kids'...
• 36:11
  His apple juice container full of sand is still down there. Yeah. Can we pause? Let's talk about that for a minute, 'cause you really broke new ground with that pull. [laughs] So listeners, let me context this.
• 36:21
  You also work for a really awesome gentleman and company that, like, helps newsletter writers get better at their craft and their business and all these different things, and one of the things they always tell people who run a newsletter business or even just a newsletter, even if it's not a business, to do because it fosters engagement with your readers, and it can earn you some first party, so not creepy, data on your user information.
• 36:46
  What would they like to hear about? What are they interested? Who are they? Some will tell you, some won't, this and that.
• 36:51
  And thirdly, because it actually helps your email inbox when people engage with things in any matter. So usually you ask, like, "How old are you? What is your demographic information?
• 37:03
  How much money do you make in this range? Do you buy things? Are you part of a household?" All these different things that would be helpful.That's not what you asked in your very first poll. So take us through that.
• 37:13
  Well, my husband on Sunday took the kids to the beach. It was a nice day. And my parents live by the beach, so they went and visited my mom.
• 37:20
  And because my mom likes to give the kids garbage, she gave them some apple juice. PS, we would never give our kids just plain apple juice. Mm-hmm. That's insane. Mm-hmm.
• 37:28
  And this kid is a, he's a hoarder, he's a collector, and I don't even know the context. I haven't even asked him about it.
• 37:35
  All I know is that I came home the day after cleaning up the house and there is an apple juice container full of sand by the front door.
• 37:43
  And I looked at it and I thought about all the different things I could do with it or invite someone else to do, and I just decided to turn that into a poll for my newsletter, because I just had a feeling that my readers would get a kick out of it.
• 37:58
  Seriously, with the surveying and the polling, shout out to Inbox Collective, Dan Oshinsky. Mm-hmm.
• 38:03
  I've never been able to figure out what kind of information I would wanna get my readers to give me that I would do something with, that I would wanna give them the time to do, and I don't want to change my strategy because I'm just too lazy.
• 38:15
  In this way, I was kinda doing... I mean, this, I just write like this in general, just like mess around with different formats just to have fun, like why not?
• 38:23
  Like the listicle, you know, is a good old chestnut for those. So yeah, I made a survey saying, "Who should do something with this apple juice container full of sand? When should it be done? What should be done with it?"
• 38:36
  And I think I had something else. And I prefaced it by s- acting like it was a regular survey saying- Mm-hmm... I wanna learn more about you- Mm-hmm... and this will help my strategy. Many of my answers were fake.
• 38:46
  Well, not fake, but you know, like things like you wanna do but can't, put the sand- Mm-hmm... in my kid's bed. Mm-hmm. I am contemplating wrapping it up and giving it to him for his birthday. Here's the thing.
• 38:55
  The answers are like fun to you, and somewhat facetious or imaginary.
• 39:04
  I think I and the rest of your readers took it very seriously, 'cause I think people answered pretty [chuckles] honestly about what they would do, and then the comments are incredible. Yeah. Well, let's see.
• 39:14
  For the first question I said, "Who should do something about this plastic apple juice container filled with sand my son brought home from the beach this weekend that is now sitting by the front door?"
• 39:22
  And 1,433 people voted on it. 46% said the kid should do something even though nagging is tedious. The spouse sh- should do it.
• 39:31
  19% said that he should do it 'cause he took the kids to the beach, and 34% said I should do it just to get it over with, for instance. So people really responded to this.
• 39:39
  Oh, the question, what should be done with it, 48% said, "Hidden for a while, then thrown away." Mm-hmm. 38% said, "Put in the backyard?" Question mark. And 11% said, "Just keep leaving it there."
• 39:51
  And then- Who, who are those fucking people? [laughs] They're me, 'cause it is still there.
• 39:55
  And then finally, my last question was, "If this plastic bottle full of public winter beach sand is to be disposed of, what is the proper way to do so?"
• 40:02
  And 50 per- 7% said, "Empty the sand, rinse and recycle the bottle." Mm-hmm. And then 35%, the people who speak to my soul, said, "Garbage can, full stop, three middle finger emojis."
• 40:13
  And yeah, because I don't think I should have to do a two-step process for something that is not even my problem. But- No... I mean, that is one option.
• 40:22
  That and everything else we've kinda talked about, besides, and clothing I guess, though clothing is a little bit, a bit afar of it. Here's the unfortunate news. Recycling is not real.
• 40:34
  We recycle like 3 to 5% of the things that we try to recycle, not of all refuse. China used to do most of our recycling. They started to refuse to do that, and we don't really have the capabilities to do it here.
• 40:47
  And also when people put a pizza box in, basically it's not that won't get recycled, it's that it ruins like the whole batch, basically. Ah. They won't do the whole thing. Just goes in landfill.
• 41:00
  That's a bummer, obviously, especially for those of us that grew up when we did, which was like dare and reduce, reuse, recycle. Dare didn't work, and reduce, reuse, recycle is if we had the capabilities would be great.
• 41:14
  There are certain things that are really reused and really recyclable that you should as much as you can, which are glass and aluminum. Plastic is a nightmare.
• 41:24
  The best thing you can do is just buy less of it, ignoring all the health stuff. And this seems like a drop in the ocean because you're just one household and it's one bouncy ball or sticky thing.
• 41:37
  We have three things stuck to our ceiling, and I tell you- [laughs]... every time Dana remembers that they're there, which is not often, and sees them, just like the quiet rage in her that consumes her body.
• 41:48
  I know it doesn't seem like much, but consumption does matter, and it does move the needle eventually, like people who, for example, stopped buying Teslas in the past six months.
• 41:59
  You know, sales are down 50% in Europe, and 50% is a pretty big fucking number. If we can do that with plastic stuff, it'll be helpful.
• 42:07
  'Cause I will tell you, as much as we have started to move away from peak combustion engines and peak fossil fuels for energy and transportation, they just turned it into plastic, and so they're pivoting all these factories to petrochemical refineries.
• 42:22
  That's why we have Cancer Alley in Louisiana. They're betting on plastic. So the more we can head that off, the better, because unfortunately, yeah, recycling plastic isn't really gonna do it.
• 42:34
  It's a bummer, but in our work we try to really take sort of the Churchill mantra of tell you like it is and then tell you that there's still hope. And that is the story. There's no really getting around it.
• 42:45
  [chuckles] It's really frustrating. It's a lot of anxiety and stress. It can really make your house feel like you're constantly behind. Yeah. And that we definitely wrestle with, is we're like we both work full-time.
• 42:56
  We work really hard. We have help. We're on our kids. We have places for things. How are we always behind? Yeah. So it really applies on so many levels.
• 43:07
  But also in that macro sense, like just having less of it, but also setting anyPositive things you can with sports teams or school or whatever.
• 43:18
  When someone's like, "Let's put together bags for the kids for this and this," it's like, "Can we just take them to Pizza Hut?"
• 43:23
  Well, then I feel, feel proud of myself 'cause we had adult dodge ball at school last weekend, which is... Or two weekends ago now.
• 43:30
  And I was on the organizing committee, and we were all figuring out what drinks to buy and bring, and someone proposed that we bring cups for the drinks, and I said, "Let's not, 'cause that's just more trash."
• 43:39
  And they listened to me, so that is my thing. But, uh, something I didn't even think about, I don't even know if you're there yet, if your kids make their own money, 'cause Paul's just starting that.
• 43:49
  Are you telling them then to buy less plastic, or is that just a conversation for later? 'Cause I feel like I nag so much. I'm proud of Paul, our older one, for wanting to make his own money. Mm-hmm. You know?
• 44:00
  However, the things he wants to buy are so dumb, and, yes, mostly plastic, but also I don't know if I have it in me to be like, "I'm gonna yuck your yum of you being independent," you know? I mean- It's a hard one.
• 44:11
  We should do a whole conversation on money stuff.
• 44:13
  So we've always done, like, dollar bills for allowance, and then we converted over in the past year and a half, 'cause it was a pain the ass for me, to the app Greenlight.
• 44:21
  And same thing, these kids have daily chores and some weekly stuff. It's not so much. They think it is sometimes. You have a dog, you gotta take care of it, all that kinda stuff.
• 44:30
  But what we've always done is, hey, whenever you get any kinda money, whatever it is, birthday gift, allowance, whatever, picking up sticks, a third of it goes to spend, and you can basically use it on whatever you want,
• 44:46
  which comes back to your point of do you let them buy plastic shit. A third of it goes to save, which you never touch, and a third of it goes to donate.
• 44:53
  And at the end of every year, around Christmas, they pick a place they're gonna donate, and we donate it, and that just gets replenished.
• 44:58
  So the answer is they have access to a third of it to spend it on basically whatever we want. But
• 45:04
  we say that, and then in the moment when something plastic comes up, a lot of the times we're just like, "I don't want that in the house." And they're like, "You said it was my money."
• 45:11
  Well- And I'm like, "I understand, but it's my house. I don't want any more shit." And that's annoying to them. Like you said, it yucks their yum, for sure, but I'm also like I can't willingly...
• 45:20
  I'm so annoyed by the amount of shit. I don't know where it comes from. I can't willingly bring another thing in that in three days you fucking forget exists. Yeah.
• 45:28
  Man, I feel like this is, like, part of why I have just, like, existential exhaustion some days when you text me and you're like, "How you doing?" And I'm like, "I have to lay down."
• 45:36
  Especially 'cause my husband is, I don't know, he's less terrified about plastic or I don't know what. And a- again, you have to choose your battles.
• 45:42
  Like, I could either be in charge of the kids all the time and not let him take them out, you know, and buy them Gatorade bottles, oh my God.
• 45:49
  Or I can just say, "I guess we're gonna try to recycle," although now I feel like an idiot. You shouldn't feel like an idiot. We were told one thing, and it's not the case.
• 45:58
  Well, so if you do have a plastic Gatorade bottle in your house, are you throwing it away then? Are, are you not- It doesn't matter... trying to recycle it? Like- Like- Actually, it's not half and half.
• 46:07
  It's truly 90 to 96% likely it's not gonna get recycled. See, and that's kinda like the bottle full of sand by their front door is, like, symbolic 'cause it's like, well, it's garbage no matter where it is.
• 46:19
  And so right now it's just living by the front door. And again, like, it's kinda the opposite of gatekeeping, and I totally understand, like, the idealists who, again, understandably, like, you should still try.
• 46:30
  That 4% really matters. In sum, 4% of a huge amount is still so much, and you're fucking right. Just also buy aluminum cans of water instead.
• 46:40
  Just do better the next time, basically, is all I can ask, is just cut down the amount of shit coming into your house. I will say kids love Liquid Death. We do that at our kids' birthday parties. Yeah.
• 46:51
  They think it's so fun 'cause it looks like beer, and it looks like tattoos. And so I highly recommend if there's anyone listening, next time you have a kid's birthday party, get Liquid Death as an option for them.
• 47:01
  So can I tell you a crazy story about Liquid Death? My brother makes that water. Oh, really?
• 47:07
  So he works with a company who owns a spring in Western Virginia, and that's the Liquid Death water, and they make it and bottle it, and you're 100% correct. The first time... Because they look like...
• 47:19
  They're making smaller ones now, but they look like 40s, and I remember bringing them a year or two ago to, like, a baseball game, it was my job to bring the snack, and opening up the cooler and handing them out to kids.
• 47:31
  [laughs] And the parents were like, "What the fuck is that?" Oh. And they were so pumped 'cause they thought it was awesome. Yeah. It has a skull on it.
• 47:39
  It's also fun for people who don't drink, 'cause then you get that feeling of holding- Yeah... a tall boy- Right... even though you're not. Well, that's cute.
• 47:44
  No, I'm happy about, you know, canned water being more of a thing and, you know, but I don't like the milk carton water. I think that tastes weird.
• 47:50
  But fortunately for me, I've discovered I can't really drink sparkling water anymore, which, like, makes me- Me neither... really sad. Yeah, it makes my tummy feel weird, and, which is too bad. So weird.
• 47:59
  What is left for me? [laughs] I know. I had a s- the smallest piece of dark chocolate the other night 'cause I was like, "Maybe it's not really a problem."
• 48:06
  Turns out it's still a problem, and it's the same thing with bubbly water. I'm like, "Why? When did I become so fucking fragile?" [laughs] I know. Why wasn't I eating, like, whole pizzas when I still could?
• 48:16
  Like, it really, like it ma- I'm trying to try, trying to try this ketamine I keep hearing so much about.
• 48:21
  [laughs] And the other thing is, like, people don't really tell you is that when you have kids, like, so much fun stuff is also a waste.
• 48:27
  I remember, it was actually during COVID, we were like, "We're gonna do Slip 'N' Slides and baby pools for..." You know, 'cause you have nothing else to do- Mm-hmm... and you have to do something. Mm-hmm.
• 48:33
  And our water bill was insane that month, and you're like- Mm-hmm... "I guess I forgot about water." You know, things like that. Christmas lights, you know.
• 48:41
  I mean, our electricity bill around wintertime is insane, and you're like, "Well..." [laughs] It's hard 'cause you're like, "It's another thing I'm supposed to keep track of."
• 48:48
  Again, it's a very not right now thing where... And I can see my kids feeling it, too, when we have our little five-minute timers we set for the showers.
• 48:55
  They always ask for an extra minute 'cause they're still washing their conditioner out, dumping it down the drain, and I know I shouldn't be such a dick about it, but again, it is the privilege of knowing too much is that- Oh...
• 49:08
  there's not a lot. And it should cost a lot more than it does because of how finite the resource is, but at the same timeWe shut off too many people's water. It's like one of the three things you need to survive.
• 49:22
  We should never be able to do that. It's a clusterfuck, but I'm a dick about it. And you're right, you fill one baby pool, and you look up, and you're like, "What? What happened?"
• 49:31
  [laughs] We're not good about the shower timer thing, 'cause like, honestly, sometimes our kid with ADHD will go in the shower, and you're just like, he's contained in a place- Totally...
• 49:39
  yeah, and it's kinda soundproof- Totally get it... and, you know, and I'm working on my crossword puzzle. I mean, it's not, you know, an insane hour-long shower, but it is more than five minutes.
• 49:49
  No, that's how I feel on the airp- like, our kids don't get much screens or much candy or anything like that.
• 49:53
  But when we travel, now that they're old enough and they're on a plane, they have their iPad, I've got work to do. They don't want anything to do with me, and I don't want anything to do with them.
• 50:03
  And again, am I like, are they getting eight hours of consecutive screen time? Yes. Am I getting eight hours of no one asking me questions? Also yes. And it's like the opposite to not right now. Yeah.
• 50:16
  Have you ever flown on a private jet before? Once, yeah. Not a great climate thing. Not great. Yeah. But if I, if it was, I mean, I have not.
• 50:24
  I'm not, I don't know whose you flew on, but I don't know if I would turn it down. I don't know if I would be the kind of person to be like, "I'm gonna be noble and, you know, go wait with all the schmoes at O'Hare."
• 50:35
  I think part of it is, I mean, again, knowing what a nightmare flying is, but forget the fact that planes are now falling out of the sky, which doesn't help my next point, which is it turns out, like, I don't deal with flying very well these days- No, no...
• 50:51
  in general. So I just do a lot less of it. Yeah. I, I will say, 'cause I am flying in a week and a half, so I need to tell myself this, but allegedly, flying safety is actually really good right now.
• 51:03
  There are just some really bad, you know, stories in the news, which I just need to say that to myself. Oh.
• 51:08
  I mean, contextually, and this is why I know mine is like a, an anxiety neurosis, if a plane fell out of the sky, one plane every single day in the US, it would still be, whatever the number is, 100 times safer than driving to your kid's school.
• 51:25
  Like, it, it's still so safe. By the way, the app I recommend the most, especially if you're traveling with kids so that you have a handle on things, especially with the connections, called Flighty- Oh...
• 51:34
  and it can hook up to TripIt or whatever. It's great. It'll tell you about a cancellation or a delay so long before the airline.
• 51:40
  But they show you a little map, and you can back out, and you can see all the planes in the air. There's so much going on any given minute. That's fine.
• 51:49
  That one dropping out of the air every day is like, it barely puts a dent in it. Is that worse than before? Of course. But driving is horrific. It's awful. Yeah. Well, would you take a train? Love trains.
• 52:01
  Yeah, but would you take your kids on a, would you go to Vail on the train versus the plane? N- no, that's... I would kill them- [laughs]... halfway into the trip. It's also expensive.
• 52:12
  Like, I thought that for some reason, if you're on the ground, it's cheap, but you're like, no, unless you are gonna sleep in your seat, it is not. No, I get it. You gotta do it. It's still so much safer.
• 52:21
  It's totally just... I think it's a control thing for me. Oh, yeah. No, I don't prefer it, for sure. It's not my thing.
• 52:27
  My friend is an attorney at American Airlines, and I was talking to a dad last week about how he was on a flight that dropped 30 to 10,000 feet, like, in a couple of minutes, and I was like, "How'd you handle that?"
• 52:38
  And he's like, "It was okay." But everyone was screaming about the, you know, the way it felt on their ears. And I was like, "It's the screaming for me. I would really not wanna be on a plane where people are screaming."
• 52:48
  Mm-hmm. And he admitted that he wrote a note to his wife and daughter, and I was like, "That's not good. You should be-" Yeah. [laughs] But that's not, like, what I wanna be doing.
• 52:56
  I want no screaming, and I don't wanna be sending any notes. Nope. Just, just- Nope. [laughs] Trying to get that phone service for the last call. Nope. No, thank you.
• 53:03
  I remember being on a flight once 20 years ago, and the turbulence was bad enough that there was a nun, and she was crossing herself over and over, and I was like, "Not a great sign." Yeah.
• 53:11
  No, this kind of stuff freaks me out.
• 53:13
  I'll always remember flying to, I wanna say Paris or something, when I was studying abroad, and, like, the turbulence was pretty bad, and I called over a flight attendant to just be like, "Is this okay?"
• 53:21
  And he just seemed so impatient and, like, over it that it made me feel better that he was just, like, so bitchy about it. Mm-hmm. But I was like, okay, like, that's who I need to look to is, not the... What does Mr.
• 53:31
  Rogers say? "Don't look to the hero, don't look to the- Helpers... the good guy." Yeah. Don't look to the helpers. Look to the bitchy male flight attendants, and they will make you realize everything's gonna be okay.
• 53:41
  You put a point in here, back to our waste thing, talk about everything is gonna be okay, about the time James had diarrhea in the bathtub. Oh, yeah. Do you ever
• 53:51
  wish for something like that, or say, a fire that could just actually make a lot of the stuff in the house disappear and take it out of your hands entirely? Well, [laughs] I don't wish for a purging fire. Cleansing.
• 54:08
  A cleansing fire. That's kind of funny. I think I fantasize about when they leave and grow up. You know, at the same time I dread it, I also... Like, our house is, we are still very much balls in the house- Mm-hmm...
• 54:20
  not just the ones with the people I live with. But I'm like, why would we repaint things when it's just gonna get fucked up all over again? Mm-hmm. We might get another dog in a couple of years.
• 54:27
  Like, why would we do that? So I do think about what it'll be like. And there's certain things that I love.
• 54:32
  I loved reclaiming the cabinet over time where we are getting gradually rid of children's dishware, for instance- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm...
• 54:40
  and, like, how nice that is, and getting rid of car seats gradually Are you sentimental about that at all? Which, the children have plates and stuff? Little shit like that.
• 54:47
  Children's, like, that era being over, car seats being over. No. Does it end you? No, absolutely not. I mean, I'll look at little kids.
• 54:56
  I sit up here in my third floor office, and I've seen sometimes a woman walking her toddler down the street, and I'm like, "That's so cute," but I also remember how bored she must be.
• 55:04
  'Cause she's walking, like, negative two miles an hour- Mm-hmm... you know, like, stopping to look at every blade of grass. And I'm like, don't forget how boring that was, you know, even though it looks so cute.
• 55:12
  So you're claiming your cabinet back. Yeah, claiming my cabinets back. Again, it's weird, 'cause you're like, I want my space back. I know I'll miss it. I know it'll be sad.
• 55:21
  I look at these, like, little notes on the bulletin board that my kids wrote me that were really sweet at the time. There's a note that has a piece of gum that's actually...
• 55:29
  Here, I have a piece of gum that's rotting and strangely growing, uh, 'cause, um, one of the kids gave it to me with a note that says, " 'Cause you're such a great mom," here, with no......
• 55:38
  punctuation, but it was a piece of gum. And I put it on my bulletin board, 'cause that's like the nicest thing they've ever done for me. Mm-hmm.
• 55:43
  You're so thirsty for when you have boys and you're a mom for them to do anything for you. But- Wouldn't welcome a cleansing fire. That, that's your point.
• 55:51
  I will say, I don't know if this is the same thing or not, but we have a Tesla that we leased, and we did this obviously before everything. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 55:58
  And I was asking my husband, like, "When can we get rid of this fucking car?" And he said, "I think the lease is up early next year." He said, "We can get rid of it sooner and pay more for it."
• 56:05
  And I was like, "Well, that's not gonna make Elon Musk feel anything. That's only gonna hurt us. There's no point to that." Mm-hmm. So no, I mean, I do, but also, like, we live in this house for a reason.
• 56:15
  It's for having these kids. Sure. So it would be weird to live in this house minus all of their stuff.
• 56:19
  So I mean, sometimes yes, but also in a weird way, it's, like, good for my personality to just have to put up with shit sometimes and to be like, sometimes it's your time to have a nice clean house.
• 56:29
  Other times you are living with bottles of sand. How about you? How is your [laughs] how are your feelings regarding cleansing fires? Most days I hope for one. Again, it's definitely partly my issues, and
• 56:42
  definitely I feel so lucky to have a home that the kids can beat up and fill with their shit and whatever, and they can be kids about it and all that, and we've got spaces for all that stuff.
• 56:52
  But I do think there's a line of, guys, it's too much. I don't know what the fuck half this stuff is, you know?
• 56:58
  And I'm sorry, if, if there's a bin of stuffed animals or whatever that's been sitting in the corner of a bedroom or the basement or whatever for over a year, guys, clearly you're not using them.
• 57:09
  Again, some kids would appreciate these, my usual spiel, but, like, they don't have to stay here. What's the thing on the T-shirt at the bar? You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.
• 57:17
  What do you do with old stuffed animals, by the way? That's another good one. What do you do with those? Mostly donate them, though I guess, I don't know. Didn't you read The Velveteen Rabbit?
• 57:25
  They're covered in scarlet fever. Like, you can't do that. My brother and his fun husband used to buy my kids, like, gigantic stuffed animals, which, like, only take up room and they're too big to sleep with, you know?
• 57:35
  And I have a video of one time when I was fun, I made, like, a big pile of all the stuffed animals, and the kids stood up on their little steps to and launched themselves into this pile of stuffed animals. Mm-hmm.
• 57:45
  And then I got rid of them, and they still to this day will be like, "Where's that giant octopus?" And I'm like, "I got rid of it." Do you tell them the truth always? Often. I often do. Sometimes I lie.
• 57:56
  Like, my son was looking for some cup the other day that he didn't need for the last four years, and then he was having a big m- meltdown over not being able to find it, and I was like,
• 58:05
  I really wanna tell him I got rid of it, but also he's so emotional right now that I feel like just telling him the cold hard truth is not gonna be good for me personally.
• 58:13
  So I was like, "I'll try to find it," which is quite a lie. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know?
• 58:17
  I think, I mean, something we didn't touch on is probably another, for another conversation, is, like, the sandwich generation portion of it, too. My husband's parents are cat hoarders with, and they hoard cats things.
• 58:28
  Mm-hmm. My parents live in a big old house, and someday I'm gonna have to figure out what to do with all the books that live on the built-in shelves- Mm-hmm...
• 58:34
  and, like, the baby grand piano, you know, and all of their old stuff. So part of it is just knowing we can only do our part, but I'm gonna, there's r- broader horizons, you know, beyond that are gonna be
• 58:46
  terrifying, but also puts in perspective like, well, what's one more bouncy ball, I guess? You know, I can throw that away unlike, you know, my dad's old treadmill. Yeah.
• 58:55
  And that's the thing, I think it's understanding that if you set up expectations, know that they're only gonna be met, like, a quarter of the time at best. You know, what's the baseball thing?
• 59:03
  It's like one for three gets you into the Hall of Fame. And try to cut it off at the source as much as you can. But also know there's, yeah, like you said, the sandwich generation shit. You're just like, "Oh my God."
• 59:13
  Yeah. And it's gonna be your problem. Yeah. My husband has told me, he's like, "Can we make sure that when my parents die, we m- keep this piano of theirs that they brought over on the covered wagon?"
• 59:22
  And in my head I'm like, no. Like, where are we gonna put that, you know? But I just say, "Yes, sure," 'cause it's just easier to say that at the moment. Shut it down, Claire. They're not- Shut it down.
• 59:31
  [laughs] They're still alive, and so they can still put, you know, more cat figurines on that piano, you know, in the meantime.
• 59:39
  I would like to think, and I've said out loud a bunch of times and everyone just, I mean, they either roll their eyes if they did hear me, but they try not to hear me, like most things.
• 59:47
  I'm like, by the time I kick off, whether it's tomorrow or 100 years from now, I wanna have no accounts. I wanna have no stuff. I don't want people to have to deal with it. I don't want it. I don't wanna have to think.
• 59:59
  I wanna know it's all gone. And I got, like- You want- I got three 20s that are, that I leave on, like, my death bed. And Green Funeral just puts you out in the field.
• 1:00:07
  And again, I'm sure I'll become ornery and a collector of things. No. You're gonna be a grandpa, and you're gonna be buying, like, all the bouncy balls. All right, one last question.
• 1:00:16
  What are you most guilty of in terms of your own personal mess that either Dana gets mad at you about or your kids get mad at you? 'Cause you can't be an angel. No, I mean, I mean, no, I'm not an angel.
• 1:00:27
  It used to be, I mean, just day to day, like, towels in the bed and clothes, so even I got tired of that. Oh. I mean, I'm examining all my faults. We have a lot of time here.
• 1:00:36
  I'll be the one who takes out, like, games and puzzles and things like that to try to instigate some family time that no one else wants it to do. Oh.
• 1:00:43
  And then, like, the, a puzzle will sit out for a month, and it's dead to everyone else. Yeah. And I'm still holding onto some hope that we're gonna do it, and they're like- Yeah...
• 1:00:50
  "Well, we haven't been able to use this table since, you know, March." Oh, yeah. So that's slightly different, but that's more mine. But I don't bring much shit in. But part of the reason I don't bring much shit in is
• 1:01:01
  I don't go anywhere. Oh. I come to this office and I record with you or I talk about the climate catastrophe, and then I go home and I go to the gym. I don't have a lot of opportunities to get stuff.
• 1:01:11
  I guess maybe sometimes it's, like, groceries, like, too much stuff like that, but even then I've started now yelling at the kids.
• 1:01:17
  I told Dana while she was gone for all the Oscar stuff I said, "So you know when you come back there's not a lot of food in the house," 'cause I've now started just telling the kids, "I'm not buying food until you eat everything that's gone."
• 1:01:27
  They're like, "Everything?" I'm like, "Yeah, no, that's it. I'm just not." I can't do stuff, and she's like, "Jesus Christ." Oh, God. Yeah, when you're like, "You're gonna eat those like eight stale Tostitos that are..."
• 1:01:36
  Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah. Yeah. That's real funny. It's not great.
• 1:01:39
  It's spiraling.Our carpet, if you went to our living room, you'd notice that our carpet is very uneven, 'cause James, like when he finishes a puzzle, it has to be like that forever. So we hide it under the rug. Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:51
  And when he moves out, and I'll be like, "Fuck you, all you puzzles. Get the fuck out of here." But yeah. Mm-hmm. God forbid there's something where you need a completely even surface, 'cause that's not happening. Yeah.
• 1:02:00
  Frustrating. It's frustrating. You wish it wasn't the deal. It's the control what you can control thing, but also, I don't know, man. You also just don't wanna be a dick all the time about it. Yeah. It's impossible.
• 1:02:11
  It- That's, that's not a fun feeling... it's exhausting. And also part of it is the, even though it is about you, it's also not about you. Like, the world is not gonna congratulate you.
• 1:02:21
  Maybe they will, but no one's gonna be like, "Oh, Claire, your kids are so environmental. Great job. You must be a really good parent." You know? I would love that, but they're, you know.
• 1:02:29
  On the other hand, I don't wanna be around that kid who's like being like, "Don't have that."
• 1:02:33
  You know, even though you're like, "I wish they wouldn't have, you know, another plastic thing," th- like, that kid would be a pain in the ass, and I wouldn't wanna be around that kid. So. No.
• 1:02:41
  No one's friends with that kid. Let me ask you one last question. Uh...
• 1:02:44
  Do you have any friends with kids that are our kids' ages, so not like 17 and not one or two, whose houses are very clean all the time, and not just like, but there's just not a lot of stuff, and it's always put away?
• 1:02:59
  I, I have a friend who's, she would always say her husband would get really mad about stuff being out, and he would clean up all the time.
• 1:03:07
  But the weird, like, turnaround would be like, we'd be like, "What a, what an asshole" because- Mm-hmm... he would not come to stuff because he'd be home cleaning. Mm-hmm.
• 1:03:15
  Or she'd be talking about how he was mad at her for letting the house get dirty.
• 1:03:19
  So I remember saying once, "If I come to your house and you don't have a laundry basket out," I'm like, "What, what kind of airs are you putting on?" Now, I think about that.
• 1:03:26
  I hate looking at, like, architecture magazines. I hate Architecture Digest kind of stuff, 'cause I hate imagining that...
• 1:03:32
  Oh, I really can't stand when there's, like, design magazines, and like, "This busy family of five," you know, "they wanted a whatever play space."
• 1:03:39
  And you're like, "Ugh, where are the mysterious baseboard stains," you know? Mm-hmm. Like, where are the dings in the floor? So no, I'm not friends with people like that. I'm only friends with, like, normal people.
• 1:03:48
  How about you? No, I mean, we've got a couple friends who just, their house is cleaner than ours, which it's a low bar. But I just still wonder, like, what happens behind closed doors.
• 1:04:00
  What is the regime there that makes- Yeah... it so that it is so tidy? Yeah. Something dark. I have a friend who, she gives off a tidy aura, and she has very clean handwriting. She's very particular.
• 1:04:15
  She's also an only child. And I, it made me feel better to talk to her about how she will just go off sometimes. Mm-hmm.
• 1:04:22
  And like, the manic cleaning, and like sweeping things into a garbage can, or like getting more and more frantic. And I just was like, "I just need to hear that, that other people- Mm-hmm... are like that sometimes.
• 1:04:32
  You know, you can be as clean as you wanna be, as long as you're having, like, a regular mental breakdown, and you're willing to share that with me, then, you know, be who you wanna be.
• 1:04:40
  But let me see the insanity, you know, serenity now, right? [upbeat music] That's it for this week.
• 1:04:58
  You're gonna make it. You're doing great, or you're just doing it, or just you, period. Just stop right there. But for more, you can hit subscribe right in your podcast player of choice.
• 1:05:09
  Please share our show with another parent in your life or anyone who might get a kick out of listening to what the hell we're going through.
• 1:05:16
  And if you have literally three seconds, just push your thumb against the five-star review button wherever you might be listening. But no pressure. Honestly, we know you're busy.
• 1:05:24
  Head to notrightnow.show for more, or send us feedback, questions, horror stories, doxing, whatever it is, at questions@notrightnow.show.
• 1:05:36
  [upbeat music]