Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Sending Your Struggling Kid To College, with Cathy Cioth

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Sending Your Struggling Kid To College, with Cathy Cioth · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Having the experiences that we have now with our kids, these healthy, healthy, vibrant relationships, I mean, oh my gosh.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'll take it any day over a 100% cotton university of wherever sweatshirt exactly.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, just pro tip, you can just go buy the sweatshirt.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: You don't even have to have a kid that goes there.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Hope Stream, the podcast for parents of teens and young adults struggling with substance use and mental health.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Brenda Zayn.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've walked this path with my own child's addiction and high-risk lifestyle.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Each week, we help you gain clarity, learn new skills, and most importantly, find real hope in what might feel helpless.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: You are not helpless, and you're not alone anymore.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Find more resources at hopestringcommunity.org.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friend, as you may remember, if you've been here a while, I usually take a few weeks off during the summer to get out from behind the mic and enjoy some of the beautiful weather we have here in Seattle in August.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that is what I'm doing.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: What I have for you today is an episode from the vault where Kathy and I talk about something that might be right where you are today, and that is sending your potentially ready or not child off to college.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: This tends to be a tricky time because you so badly want them to go and have the college experience and to actually get a college education, and yet you are worried because they're not necessarily sending all of the signals that make you confident that they are going to be okay.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Those could be mental health signals or substance use signals.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And while you are so much looking forward to them potentially being out of the house and launching on their own, you are worried because you're wondering if they may do a boomerang and be back in your home or in a hospital or treatment program by the time Thanksgiving rolls around.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: This, my friend, I know, is a really difficult place to be.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: So settle in and take a listen to this episode from 2025 with none other than my sometimes co-host, Kathy Chopp.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of parents in our community are getting ready to send their kids off to college.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it comes with so much around that, right?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I did not have this experience, so I'm really gonna lean into you for this one because my kiddo didn't make it past the sophomore year in high school.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not, I don't, I do not have lived experience in this area, but I see a lot of our moms right now are really struggling with their kids and this wrestling with do we send them to college or not, or I just I'm counting down the minutes until they leave.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So we're here to hash all that out.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we do not have the answer, just spoiler alert.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have the answer, but we hope we can make it easier.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it there's no right, like going off.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: It maybe that's what has to happen.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I will share with us that's something that had to happen.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: So but anyway, yeah, I have experience in this.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: We have uh both of our kids, although one didn't really boomerang per se.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: It was just, I don't know what you call it.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: There was a little respite.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, let's get into this because I think it's gonna be a really I think it's gonna be pertinent to a lot of folks.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it may not even be a college decision that you're trying to make right now, but some other decision.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll just I'll kind of just do a quick summary of what we see our moms in the stream going through, which is the kids are often struggling through high school and they're in their senior year, and there's a great desire by the parents and society at large to get this kid into college.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we could do a whole nother episode about that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But there's a lot of expectations that come with having your child go off to college.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So they get across the graduation line.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And many times, and I say this with all the love and respect, and because I see our mom say it, I got my son graduated from high school.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: I should get the diploma because I'm actually the one who got them graduated, but we just wanted to get them across the line.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Did you do that?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what was that experience for you?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I mean, and I remember talking to Dina Canizero, who many of you know, she's been on our podcast.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: She's an amazing parent coach and does our facilitating for all our workshops or helps us facilitate those.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I remember talking to her, she's a friend, and saying, I just need him to walk down the darn aisle and get that diploma because she had that issue with her son, right?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: And how it happened.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, I remember sitting at his graduation, and it was a lovely day, I won't lie.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was because our son was a little different.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: He was definitely struggling, but not to the extent that we knew he was.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we were a little in the dark.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: And yes, I was sitting there thinking, oh, we did it.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Not he did it, we did it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: We did it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I even said to my husband, oh my gosh, we did it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: We did it.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: You got your second high school diploma.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: But it's common.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And listen, there is nothing wrong with that.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, that is a major marker.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think most everybody would like their child to have at least a high school diploma or a GED, either one.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because honestly, does anyone ever go back?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Has anyone asked you, Kathy?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Did you get a high school diploma?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Of course they don't.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Never.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Never.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Never.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: So whether they get a GED or like my son got his high school diploma in treatment, doing these little packets that he wrote every week.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, they get across the line.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: But by this time, everybody is fried.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, mom is fried, dad is fried.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: If there's a dad, single mom is fried, single dad is fried.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody is just we did it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so much drama, and everybody is just like, okay, big accomplishment.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and that makes a ton of sense because we know all the struggles that they go through.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the time between, okay, maybe they graduate at the end of May, and college doesn't start until let's say August or September.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And in between, in those months, a lot can go wrong.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and a lot could go right.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: A lot can go right, but we typically see a lot going wrong.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that is a rough period because as parents, what we see is you've made an investment in tuition.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: You have made an investment in housing.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's a sorority or fraternity that your child needs to go to because everybody in the family goes to belongs to this, right?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a lot of pressure.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's legit.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: There is a lot of pressure.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, parents are like, okay, it's gonna happen.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna happen.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna go.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna go.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a hope that things are gonna either self-correct or I don't know.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's some magical thinking that goes on.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: My parents saw four kids graduate from high school and go to college.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: And whether I have three brothers, so there was a little bit of cray cray as far as what the boys were doing.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: They tended to really celebrate more than I did in terms of partying and everything.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, there was always that feeling like, well, once they go to college, they kind of even out, they naturally have to take more responsibility.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I think really that's what parents, even today, that's what we were thinking is that look, once he's out of our house, I'm not gonna be making sure he gets to school on time.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna be, did you clean up your bathroom or do your laundry?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: He's gonna be sitting in all of that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: So he's gonna have to do it, was our thought.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that, yeah, things might even out once he gets to college.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_03: He's gonna learn a little bit and grow up, which is really what college was about way back when, right?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that does sometimes happen.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: I will say for somebody who is really misusing substances and struggling, the chances of that happening is less likely.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: I won't say that it never happens, but I do think given the potency of the substances today, so we are talking 80, 90, 100% THC, uh, fentanyl, you know, all of the stimulants and it's stacked against them.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Let's just put it that way.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like these substances are no joke.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think where kids used to be able to go off to college and party a little bit and they're drinking beer, they're really not just our kids.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not talking all kids, they're just not going off and drinking a few beers.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know that I went to college and I could drink whenever I wanted.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: There was no one telling me, come home, drive home, do any of that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't have my mom and dad to answer to.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: It was me.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: So when I know when our kids are going now, you're right, it's not just the beer.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was shocked, frankly, and this is my son's been sober nine years, but when he was in school, it wasn't beer, it was handles, hard alcohol.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And my son, even, and I will not say the name of the college, because truly I think all colleges are really created equal in this.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: But he had he self-reported that there was way more drugs than he had ever seen in his college.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the variety, and so those are what's showing at the party.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, yes, if there is a little bit of a substance problem, maybe it's not too severe.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: In our situation, it was a situation where it got far worse when college came upon us and everything else.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to, it's hard to say no, you're trying to fit in.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: There might be mental health issues where you're feeling like just all the things, right?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: All the things that come with it.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the same for my friend who I saw at this barbecue this weekend, where her son went off.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's got an autoimmune disease that causes a lot of pain.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so her son was prescribed and taking opiates because of the pain of that.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then when he went off to college, it just skyrocketed.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And when you have a gut feeling, follow it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because she had a gut feeling, he was in another state.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was not even a full quarter that she was like, something is not right.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she flew there unannounced and showed up.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: He was in an apartment by himself because his doctor didn't want him living in a communal living situation because of his autoimmune disease, because his immune system was so low.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: So he's in an apartment by himself, and she showed up and she sent me a video of what she found when she went in his apartment, and it was literally like something out of a movie.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, she only found that out because of her gut intuition.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say, and I know a lot of our moms are like, Yeah, but I don't trust my gut anymore because it didn't warn me about this thing or that thing, but still listen, you know when something feels wrong.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyway, we have this image in our mind.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna make the drive to the school, we're gonna go to Target, and we're gonna get the cute bedding, and we're gonna set up the dorm room, and we're gonna go to the parent barbecue, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna get the sweatshirt and the bumper sticker, because that's what we have just been trained to think is gonna happen.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I was desperate for that, and that certainly never happened for us.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: But did you have that?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, were you thinking, oh, I really want, I want this college experience for me and for him?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I had a great time in college.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's where I met my husband, where I met my dearest, dearest friends, and it was a wonderful, wonderful experience.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, yes, I wanted that for sure.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: I did buy the college sweatshirt.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: We went out to orientation together, my son and I.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: And because now orientation is before you start college.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: So we went out midsummer, he did his thing.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of they did a whole thing for parents, and it all looked so great.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: And he was fired up.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: He was really excited about it.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: So that was great.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: And we flew out there, we set up the bed, we got all excited.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: But can I share that probably two weeks before he left, he said, I don't think I want to go.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: And my husband and I have us said, Okay, what's going on?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: And we just really notched it up to college jitters.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you're gonna be fine.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: Once, well, he knew.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, talk about trusting your gut.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think my son knew this is not a good situation for me.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Things could get really out of control, and they did, yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I also so wanted this for him.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, and my husband did too.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And like we talked about earlier, we really needed the break because it was just a lot at the time.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, and I remember when my husband was hugging him goodbye and he said, I hope we don't see you till Thanksgiving.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, in other words, let's make this in not in a mean way.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then my son says, Don't worry, dad.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: And we didn't make it that far, but that's okay.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: It happened the way it's supposed to happen.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what you said about needing a break is really true because I think sometimes there's a gut feeling on the parent side of like, mmm, this might not be the best idea.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: However, I need a break, right?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: I need to sleep, I need to reconnect with my other kids who I haven't spent a lot of time with, and with my spouse or with my friends.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so it makes complete sense why we might send them off when we kind of internally know that it may not be the best idea.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: But then I think what happens, and I want to hear how this happened for you because I don't even actually know, which is surprising for all the conversations that we've had with all the conversations is that something happens, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's some sort of a crisis that happens, and all of a sudden you are looped right back into it, usually with higher stakes and more extreme circumstances.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what happened?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: How did how did things go down with you guys?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Ours was not just one crisis situation.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: So he had called a few times and just said, Yeah, I'm doing okay.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm kind of struggling a little bit.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so, well, how how much?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: We kind of would direct him to resources that were there.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: He was posting on social media that he was dropping classes and we didn't know about it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: We would hear from others.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: And but he would always kind of recover.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so we thought, well, it's okay.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: And then we went out for parent weekend.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And boy, I mean, he just didn't look like our healthy son.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Our son, and when he was in high school, he struggled, but he, I've shown you that picture.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: He does not look like a kid that struggled, but maybe he was struggling.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: He it's kind of like when you're tall, you can hide your weight gain.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_03: He could hide it.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: He hit it well.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, he hit it well.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, but that was he did not look well.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: He looked bloated, and I could tell he was drinking a lot, and he just it was an okay weekend.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, here we are on a weekend where parents are now really imbibing with their kids, and it's a big thing.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: But my husband and I left that weekend, and that was in October, feeling like, oh, this doesn't feel right.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: But let's just, we were literally just kind of waiting, you know?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then I would say mid-November, just after his birthday, he the calls became more frequent.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: I need to get out of here, I need to get out of here.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: He would never say why.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: He just says, I need to get out of here.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, this isn't working for me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: He had already dropped several classes.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so at that point, we said, okay.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: And our gut said, go pick him up.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I did.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: I flew, flew in.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was in Arizona.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: I flew in, rented a car, and whew.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm waiting in the parking lot for him.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: He's like clearing out his dorm room, and there were cops showing up, and he kept saying, There are police raiding our dorms all the time, looking for drugs.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking, what is he talking about?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: And when I was there, I saw it and I couldn't believe it.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it was quite a party atmosphere back then.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, we drove home and I knew it was the right thing to bring him home.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: But then I thought, oh geez, what's home gonna look like?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, how did I don't know that I would have felt that way.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: But I guess better than better home than there.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hey friend, if you've ever finished an episode of Hope Stream and thought, hmm, but what do I actually do when they come home tonight?
• 18:31
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• 18:34
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• 18:43
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• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: and you don't know what to do and things are escalating.
• 18:52
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• 19:00
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• 19:04
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• 19:07
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• 19:10
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• 19:20
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• 19:23
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• 19:28
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• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: Go to hopestreamcommunity.org forward slash try to get that free two-week offer, and I will see you inside.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's get back to the show.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was better home that he was very alarmed.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: His calls were very, he was struggling a lot.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so for sure we knew home was better.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we did, okay.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: All right, you're coming home.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think you could do school?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, Yeah, I just need to be in the community college.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, great.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think he signed up for a couple classes, didn't do those at all.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And he got a job, that didn't work, got another job.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: That I mean, it was like he just kept failing once he got home.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it was kind of strange because it was one of those things where I was watching in real time kind of this wow, these expectations that we had sending our first off to college.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, and by the way, this is something that maybe our moms, I think the moms in the stream know about this.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: We would have these gatherings, the the moms in the groups that I was hanging around, where we would make college care packages.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: So you go to someone's house, everyone would bring goodies, and we'd pack up a bunch of care packages and send them off.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I did that for the first several weeks.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then when he came home, they would invite me.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I just thought, oh gosh, no, I'm not going.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I don't have a kid there.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: But it just made me feel so bad.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I couldn't even tell everybody.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: And just now I think back and I think that was so silly, but it was really hard at the time.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's super it only feels silly now because it's been so long ago.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's not silly at all.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was a really hard time.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: That is really hard time.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: So hard because you don't, yeah, as much as you might even, if they're good friends, you might want to tell them, but then you also feel like, well, I shouldn't say anything because it's his thing.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you don't want to reveal something about them that it's just it gets really complicated.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel for you on that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: That had to have been so difficult.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was difficult.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: And also seeing him in real time, how much he was really struggling.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, substances became pretty, pretty prevalent.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: And we saw something.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: We saw more of what was going on.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we thought, oh my gosh, how do we help him?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: How do we help our ourselves.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: We didn't really know what to do.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: I would say that time that he came home in November to when he went to finally get some help was in June.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was a long, oh, it was a long time.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize it was that long.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was that long.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_03: And our daughter was definitely struggling.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so now we had two very much struggling under our house.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: I would say that was out of this whole time, I would say those nine, eight months or however long it was, eight eight months were probably the hardest eight months because we had two kids in the house.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Both were really struggling.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Both weren't good for each other because I think there was use going on with but it was just none of it's good.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was not not fun.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Not fun.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not fun.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Would sum that up for sure.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's as you're trying to make that decision, I'm sure you're also thinking about well, what do we tell the family?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of a sudden why is he not at college?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like what's wrong?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it gets it just there's so many layers to this, I think, that that often people don't think about.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: So all of those really come into account when you're trying to make decisions, especially if you're in a crisis situation, if you get the call from school that something has happened or the police in that city, then you're stuck with, okay, well now they're in another city in a state I don't have resources there.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Do we bring them home?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do we try to get them into a treatment program?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of treatment program do they need?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is this a mental health thing?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a substance use thing?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like so many questions.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: So many questions.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: And there are resources at colleges.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I will say that again, now we know there are recovery campuses.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: If it isn't a full-on recovery campus, they definitely have recovery resources, right?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: So these are actually for those that don't know, these are clubs that have a sober lifestyle or whatever that is.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And they help kids like that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: They're peers that are there to help them.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: There's crisis units in colleges.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: And this is all post-COVID a lot of this came about too, which is phenomenal.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: I love, love, love that colleges and universities offer this.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: So there are crisis centers for these kids to get help.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: I wish I had known all that before because when you are in it and you send if you are in that situation where you're sending off your kid right now, please go to the university, reach out to them.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: What do I do?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: Just tell them you're one of those moms that I don't even want to call you a crazy mom because you're not a crazy mom.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: You're proactive you are absolutely proactive and just like your friend's son had a serious autoimmune issue and she took a lot of care finding him a place to live.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: So find out what those crisis units are, what your rights are as parents.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's the other thing, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: As you and I know it's so important to maybe get legal documents ready.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: We did that very post all of this, but we did it.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you brought up the legal document thing because I think it's something that most parents don't think about.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I certainly never did until after my son second overdose when the nurses couldn't give me any information.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you're sending them off to college get them to sign a medical waiver so that you can get medical information.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: If they go off to college and they're 18 and they're in a car accident and they're in the hospital and you call and try to get information, they will not give it to you because they're an adult.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So get medical waiver or like medical power of attorney I guess it's called at a minimum get that.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's also that's different state by state but like talk to your family attorney to find out what do I need just so that if something does go wrong, because if you get this in place probably nothing's going to go wrong.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's how the world works right you won't need it.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do need it, you absolutely want to have it ready so that you're not like me standing in a hospital having everybody look at me like oh I really wish I could tell you what was going on but I can't because your kid's 19.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: So that is really important.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes and I love your idea about like just call ahead of time know what's available know if they if there's a crisis intervention team there because you why not right why not be prepared?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: It can't hurt and one thing we did say to both of our kids when they were going to college was you can always call us we're here for you.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so we didn't want them to feel like they were going to be all alone there and we weren't going to help or support them in that system.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And they did, right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: And especially our son, I still give them a lot of props for calling I know those were probably some really hard calls to make and that also adds to the whole layer of their mental health is that they feel so bad because it's yet something else that they felt like they couldn't be successful at.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: And what we have always said too is that college doesn't have to happen in between the ages of 18 and 22 folks.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Nope.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's normalize that by the way because I think that is something that we as parents feel that it has to happen number one.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, it has to happen between 18 and 22.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: Which how ridiculous is that like it's so ridiculous.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's so ridiculous and realizing that let's gosh I mean gosh this could be a whole other podcast let's normalize going to trade schools and all these other wonderful options to a college education right and so I think that would help parents a lot too is to know that I mean I've got our daughter right now is working on her BA and she's 26.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's great.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: I have a nephew that's going to law school just starting and he's 32.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's fabulous.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that was his choice right these are all choices of our kids right I think it it has to be their choice too.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And like your son didn't end up going to college and he's an entrepreneur.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: He's got his own successful business.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: My youngest didn't go to college he is an entrepreneur and has a hugely successful business.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: Enzo, my son who got me into this just he's 28 and just starting a master's program.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: So there you go right there you go right I mean that's just it there are so many paths to success.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to happen when the I mean now I look at kids too by the way 22 is really young.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that it's especially kids seem younger these days that I think it's almost better when they wait a little bit they kind of know what they really want to do.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I know it's really funny my son works in the car industry and he's always loved love cars.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: And he's also a great businessman too.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: So he's kind of been able to put the two together and our daughter realized gosh I want to be a psychologist.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: So things that I don't think that she would have wanted to do when she was 22 necessarily right you know so yeah I think it's wise and also I think in the next 10 years with AI everything about college is going to change.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think I look at those first two years my son went to community college for his AA and it's just those basic like all those basic requirements with I don't know I just I'm so curious I'm not an expert at all in this but I'm curious to think about what is going to happen.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like kids don't necessarily need like at this barbecue I'm at two of the kids of these parents just graduated they can't get a job to save their life I know it's so hard right now.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway that's that is a different show but what we wanted to also then transition into is what are some of these alternatives to the boomerang situation where they go off to college and they boomerang back for whatever reason but mainly for our kiddos and people listening to the substance use.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you have to really pay attention very close attention in that senior year how are they doing?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are they moving toward independence?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Are they moving toward more responsibility?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are they starting to do more things on their own I'm going to make my own dentist appointment.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to go get my car tabs even if you're helping to pay for stuff are they taking the initiative to make it happen because they're going to have to do all of that when they go to college.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Versus you taking that initiative to make it happen, right?
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's one thing to support them financially or even come along beside them and say how can we support you?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: And to ask them is this something you really want to do yes because I think as much as parents might want their kids out of the house do kids want to leave the house too because they feel like they have to that might not be the right answer.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes we have to just maybe an alternative would be we're willing to help support you in an apartment locally and you go to community college.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: That might be something that's not as expensive as going to a university out of state I was really grateful that the university that my son went to actually comped the year for it took a lot let me just say well we did pay some but you had to pay in advance for the entire semester.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I came in and I talked to them and so that's another thing work with the financial aid office or the brocer's office and ask them if they'd be willing to help you out if you end up in a situation like we did.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent especially if it's mental health just utter the words mental health that's exactly right.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure that you fight for that because I do know that that is a major contributing reason why parents don't back off is we already paid for it.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: They gotta go.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say to that prioritize your child's mental health and safety over the financial situation because that can be figured out I mean it might not be easy like you said it might take a bit but if it is a mental health and substance use reason in today's world you may have to get attorney involved but I would almost guarantee you get that money back if they made a different decision.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: So very important.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the other alternative by the way versus sending them right away is having defer for a year.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean a lot of parents say my kid would never get into that college if we don't go now right and so many, many schools will defer for a year.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I know people call it the gap year, whatever it is to them, but it might be that you offer to your child let's defer for a year.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Let's have you defer.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: And let's work on mental health whatever that is so you can be more solid when you go because really it's all about building that strong foundation so they can be successful.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I love the ability to be able to defer for a year.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that way you're not telling your kids you can't go.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: You're just saying hey we're just saying one year that it's going to be you're going to blink and speak on totally totally.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many amazing therapeutic gap year programs.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah maybe they don't need that.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they just need some community college some time to work just so that you can observe with your own eyes okay things are going in the right direction and then they're off and running or allkindsoftherapy.com we love Jenny Wilder and her resource.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you are thinking like maybe we need to look at some other option you can go to allkinsoftherapy.com they have you can sort by all kinds of different filters and there are so many cool therapeutic gap years.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: I would actually just search for that where they can go volunteer somewhere they can go their surf ones in Costa Rica.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I'm always like I think I need to go on a gap year.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: Is it too late?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is it too late?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Can I go?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Can we get a master's or a PhD in these?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there are so many options.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Ed consultants are a great source for that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Again you can find Ed Consultant on all kinds of therapy.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: So there are lots of options and yes I know it's difficult to think about delaying but would you rather delay one year and have it go really well versus have things completely crumble apart in the beginning and then it's so much harder for them to come back from that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, those are things and then just as far as if they do go off I would really recommend and this is from experience that we see in the community from you also from consultants that we've worked with is to be sure and set very clear expectations about what you are willing to support when it comes to college.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe you have paid for the full year and you've paid for housing and you paid for the meal plan and here's what your dad and I or your whoever and I are needing to see in return for that, right?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is a big financial exchange.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so what great point average are you going to be expecting what are your expectations about them being employed or not or volunteering or not and some kids I have one a kiddo who is like probably not ready to get a job but he certainly could go volunteer at an animal shelter for a few hours a week so work on campus.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of great on-campus jobs for kids too are you going to give them a car?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: That was the other thing like you know we actually said no car your freshman year there was an allowance that is always going to come up what's your allowance for your kid and with our son he actually asked for his graduation money and we ended up giving all of his graduation money at one point and we just thought well this is the natural consequence.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: And it was tough.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: And he even said oh I wish I had that when he right now yeah it's like oh that would have been great.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: But anyway yeah those are all great great things that you brought up Brenda I agree.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: What are the parameters that you want to have that you will support this very expensive endeavor.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's a huge investment not just financially but it's a huge investment in your child and if you're going to spend that money you want it to be well spent and well utilized.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so if they're not at a point where they can really utilize it well, that's when it might be time to take a break and find something else to get them set up for the place where they can then do better.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then the last thing that came to mind for me when I was thinking about this is the grief.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it is so real.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: We have several sessions around grief in our community because I think we talked about this not too long ago on a podcast episode that we did about grief is real.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And when you don't get to make that drive or fly and drop them off at the dorm or the fraternity or the sorority and go to Target and get the bedding and wear the sweatshirt and have the bumper sticker and go make the care packages with your friends it is real that you're not getting to do that.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: It feels so hard.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: It is just so hard and look you and I come at it from a very post post world and but when you're in it like you say it's just so tough to know that this isn't going to be part of our family story at some point right because maybe you have great feelings about what happened in your own personal life in your own family and you want that right yeah but acknowledge that just be kind to yourself and it might happen eventually and it might not and just to be okay either way right yes and I will add to that that's hard you know we didn't get to have that experience with either well we have four but with my two oldest didn't get to have that experience and we've had so many awesome experiences.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's I think what we forget is we start playing this movie forward the movie goes off track the I envision like in the film room in a movie theater like the film is spinning off the little film projector right and we're like oh no I didn't get to have that experience and we don't then get the film back on track and go, oh but wait a minute there's more ahead and it looks different and no I did never have that college experience but I wouldn't trade those experiences that we've had for the world.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: Never right and it has been hard yes hard hard hard and I just think oh having the experiences that we have now with our kids these healthy healthy vibrant relationships I mean oh my gosh.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I'll take it any day over a 100% cotton university of wherever sweatshirt.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly I don't care by the way just pro tip you can just go buy the sweatshirt.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: You don't even have to have a kid that goes there.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly right so just go buy the sweatshirt and you can wear it if you really want it you really want it go buy the sweatshirt.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes and if you haven't already heard Joanna Lilly's podcast it is called Success is subjective look it up listen to every single episode.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I kid you not she has all of these people on who have taken a different path to success most of them definitely did not go to high school for four years and then college for four years and now you're successful.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're in a place where you're really grieving or if you are just so frustrated or whatever you're feeling listen to every single episode.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: It is so good.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean some of them my son's on there as well telling his story but many of them would your jaws just dropped on the ground like what how did how did this turn out okay so yeah can't recommend we met some of these amazing people at the conferences that we go to and we think wow yes and news flash they weren't graduating college at 22 by the way right they were able to have these amazing lives due to their struggles and everything else.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes we will leave it there and just wanted to send all of that out to those of you who are in this season.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: And again it may not even be college it may be some other big decision that you're trying to make and just think through these things that there are alternatives.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: When you look at the long game this is going to be much less traumatic and impactful than you probably think it is right now because like Kathy are saying we're eight nine years post and it's like I don't even remember and I can't even I don't know like none of the high school stuff matters.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like your wedding like you got married 35 years ago do you remember what color your napkins were do you remember what your cake looked like I mean maybe too before you do okay well I don't see you know I'm the detail person.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: You are detailed you're right.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Does it matter that I remember not at all no like is your marriage any better today or worse today because of what color napkins you picked for your wedding not at all.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: So not at all I think what we're trying to say is perspective is everything.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: And a few years down the road this is not going to feel as like as it does today.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: So always nice to chat Brenda.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: See you later.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay my friend I am so glad that you were here with me today.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want the resources from this episode?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you do head to hopestreamcommunity.org click podcast and you will find this episode along with 300 or so others and every link that we mentioned and if you haven't tried it yet we offer a free two week trial of our online community for moms the stream.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: No credit card needed no commitment just go to hopestreamcommunity.org forward slash try and we can get you set up with a free two-week membership.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if this is your first time here or if this whole approach feels new and uncomfortable that is normal you can grab a free ebook I wrote called Worried Sick.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: It will help you start seeing new ways to respond to your child and find new ways to approach this whole situation that feels very confusing.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: You can find that at hopestreamcommunity.org forward slash worried.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: You, my friend, are an elite level parent.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: You are doing an incredible job you do things most parents never have to do and I am so honored to be walking this path with you.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Take ridiculously good care of yourself and I will meet you right back here next week.