Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 394: Andor: Season One - Narkina 5

Transcript

Issue 394: Andor: Season One - Narkina 5 · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

0:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to the ned Palty.
0:06
Speaker 2: Hi, this is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars,
0:10
Speaker 2: the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
0:14
Speaker 2: are listening to aggressive negotiations.
0:24
Speaker 3: Well, hello, and welcome to aggressive negotiations. That little slice
0:28
Speaker 3: of Star Wars Heaven coming at you here from the
0:31
Speaker 3: ISB headquarters, where we have sadly got to report A
0:36
Speaker 3: lot of stuff is going down. And I just say
0:39
Speaker 3: stuff because this is a family show. But with me
0:42
Speaker 3: as he is every single week is none other than
0:45
Speaker 3: Jedi Master John Mills. John, how are we going to
0:49
Speaker 3: respond to all the things that are just going wrong
0:51
Speaker 3: in the Empire?
0:52
Speaker 1: Right now?
0:53
Speaker 4: Well, before I ask you for your thesis, Agent Rushing,
0:58
Speaker 4: I am going to introduce our spe visiting dignitary from
1:01
Speaker 4: the ISB brass fresh from his meeting with Emperor Palpatine himself,
1:05
Speaker 4: Darren Moser, fellow podcaster here on the house Lights Network.
1:08
Speaker 3: Oh I thought I smelled burning flesh.
1:12
Speaker 1: That's right there you go, his eyes, his eyes.
1:17
Speaker 4: Darren, of course is a co host over on house
1:19
Speaker 4: Lights here on the Nerd Party, but Darren is also
1:22
Speaker 4: a huge Star Wars and and Door fan, so we
1:25
Speaker 4: are delighted. Darren that you could join us for this,
1:27
Speaker 4: because this is our discussion of the eighth episode of
1:30
Speaker 4: the first season of and or Narkina five, which that
1:35
Speaker 4: one I can pronounce because they actually said the name
1:37
Speaker 4: in the episode onlike beach Planet from episode seven, whatever
1:41
Speaker 4: the hell that one's called. But yeah, here we are,
1:45
Speaker 4: Matt Darren. This is exciting, the three of us sitting here.
1:50
Speaker 4: This is like a little mini Star Wars Jedi Council
1:53
Speaker 4: going on here.
1:54
Speaker 5: And we're all holograms. Some reason, the meeting room was booked,
1:58
Speaker 5: but if someone were to look in through the door,
2:00
Speaker 5: it's just three holograms. You're like, why did you book
2:03
Speaker 5: the room?
2:03
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, just because we wanted to have our
2:05
Speaker 3: own space. You know, apparently we're in a very liminal
2:09
Speaker 3: state of mind right now. But before we dive into
2:12
Speaker 3: talking about in Archema five, thank you everybody for listening.
2:16
Speaker 3: We hope you enjoy the episode, and you know, hit
2:19
Speaker 3: us up with star ratings and reviews on all those
2:21
Speaker 3: podcasting platforms that allow you to do so. And of course,
2:26
Speaker 3: you know, if you love us, tell all your friends
2:28
Speaker 3: about this little podcast that could so. I wanted to.
2:31
Speaker 3: I wanted to start with both of you guys, because
2:35
Speaker 3: this episode features a lot of the storylines all playing together,
2:41
Speaker 3: and in fact, in many ways, I was thinking about
2:44
Speaker 3: this episode in reference to kind of like The Two Towers,
2:50
Speaker 3: where it's like all the different storylines are playing together
2:53
Speaker 3: and nothing gets completely resolved, but we're actually just kind
2:57
Speaker 3: of setting up the end, and basically like we're actually
3:02
Speaker 3: looking towards the end because there's only four more episodes
3:04
Speaker 3: after this, and so one of the big things here
3:07
Speaker 3: is that and Or has now become kind of priority
3:12
Speaker 3: number one for the ISB to find. Little do they
3:15
Speaker 3: know they already have him. And I found this to
3:19
Speaker 3: be really really interesting, the way that this very organically
3:23
Speaker 3: puts him center place for so many of these characters.
3:28
Speaker 4: Matt, I'm going to call back to an earlier conversation
3:30
Speaker 4: that we had about the first three episode arc and
3:34
Speaker 4: all of my problems with the way they cut up
3:37
Speaker 4: and edited and the pacing and everything like that, and
3:40
Speaker 4: I made reference. I said, we're going to hit an
3:42
Speaker 4: arc where I think they did it all right, and
3:45
Speaker 4: Narkena five is that midway episode. This is this is
3:49
Speaker 4: two episodes in a row where I'm like this, this
3:52
Speaker 4: is exactly how I needed this story to start progressing.
3:56
Speaker 4: Like you're saying, everything's in balance. There's good tension across everything,
4:00
Speaker 4: and while there's no resolution for the entire arc, it's
4:04
Speaker 4: resolved enough at the end of the episode. And I mean, Darren,
4:08
Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm off base. I don't know
4:10
Speaker 4: if if your team mat or Team John. I don't
4:13
Speaker 4: know that there's so much distinction this time, but.
4:15
Speaker 5: The Team Star wars No. I really like the Nakina
4:21
Speaker 5: five arc. I think it's the best arc of the
4:23
Speaker 5: entire with a short comparison to like the Farix stuff
4:27
Speaker 5: at the end, which is just such a great finale.
4:30
Speaker 4: Uh.
4:31
Speaker 5: But yeah, and it was interesting rewatching this episode because
4:36
Speaker 5: at this time, yes, we're starting this new arc. And
4:40
Speaker 5: that was one of the most helpful things when I
4:41
Speaker 5: first watched this was learning, oh picture it in these
4:44
Speaker 5: little two and three episode chunks, and it made so
4:47
Speaker 5: much more sense. But even in those mini arcs, you're
4:52
Speaker 5: in the middle of the story, so a lot is
4:54
Speaker 5: going along, a lot of like a lot of exposition,
4:58
Speaker 5: a lot of chess pieces. This is kind of the
5:01
Speaker 5: board is moving kind of thing. But I still feel
5:06
Speaker 5: this episode is a great rewatch, specifically because it introduces
5:11
Speaker 5: us to the prison complex, and it's such an interesting
5:15
Speaker 5: world building, you know, the from the electriflied floors to
5:20
Speaker 5: on program to the prison uniforms everything. I even noticed
5:27
Speaker 5: little bits as he was going down being processed for
5:30
Speaker 5: the first time, obviously having it be a rewatch, I
5:34
Speaker 5: picked up more on the limits of the guards and oh,
5:38
Speaker 5: you need to get over here, and oh we just
5:41
Speaker 5: ran short on people over on two. I was even
5:44
Speaker 5: counting how many seven sided prison complexes we saw in
5:49
Speaker 5: the opening pan and they never show a wide enough
5:53
Speaker 5: shot to get a good count. I think it's between
5:55
Speaker 5: five and seven. I would guess seven because it's the
5:58
Speaker 5: lucky magic number of a Qina five. But yeah, this
6:02
Speaker 5: one where sometimes a middle episode in a in a
6:07
Speaker 5: story arc, you feel like, ah, do I rewatch that? Yeah,
6:11
Speaker 5: it's it doesn't have the big gusto, But this one,
6:15
Speaker 5: I love the prison setup, introducing ken O Looy, introducing Melchi,
6:21
Speaker 5: who we will see in Rogue one. Yeah, all great
6:27
Speaker 5: is Refin and all Thrusters and you know man Matha
6:30
Speaker 5: and Luth and we get other pieces. But this is
6:33
Speaker 5: the gem of the episode to be Yeah, I mean the.
6:35
Speaker 3: Whole uh, I mean this was the moment where, uh,
6:40
Speaker 3: you know, I realized that they had done the thing
6:45
Speaker 3: that Dave Filoni had mentioned in an interview, which is,
6:49
Speaker 3: if you want to make good Star Wars, you've got
6:51
Speaker 3: to watch all of George Lucas, not just Star Wars.
6:55
Speaker 3: And so the fact that they are relying so heavily
6:59
Speaker 3: on that eh x one one, three eight feel to
7:03
Speaker 3: this place where it is so stark. Uh you know,
7:07
Speaker 3: you have the over voice being, you know, speaking to you.
7:11
Speaker 3: Just everything about this kind of plays into that, and
7:16
Speaker 3: and and and and at the same time, I love
7:22
Speaker 3: the way in which that prison life and that that
7:27
Speaker 3: this prison story actually plays into the way in which
7:31
Speaker 3: the Empire's new security measures are actually going to be
7:36
Speaker 3: a catalyst for the very thing that they're trying to squash.
7:42
Speaker 3: Because in the end this I've said this many times
7:47
Speaker 3: that we've been going through this, but like each of
7:50
Speaker 3: these things become microcosms of the macro and this whole
7:55
Speaker 3: arc is really about and or learning to lead rebellion,
8:02
Speaker 3: because he's about to do that in this arc, and
8:07
Speaker 3: so really that again that involves this microcosm of what
8:11
Speaker 3: we're going to get in the macrocosm. And and it
8:14
Speaker 3: ties in so perfectly in the sense that every single
8:17
Speaker 3: story point, like you were mentioning John, is playing together
8:21
Speaker 3: on every single cylinder possible at this point, like there's
8:25
Speaker 3: there's nothing really misfiring when it comes to all the
8:30
Speaker 3: story points playing together.
8:32
Speaker 4: Well, I think that one of the things with the
8:36
Speaker 4: THHX thing, there's definitely some visual there's a lot of
8:38
Speaker 4: that visual stuff in the auditory stuff like you were
8:40
Speaker 4: pointing out, Darren, But like the thing that's really what
8:44
Speaker 4: I think great that does speak to what Lucas was
8:47
Speaker 4: saying in his more overtly abstract revolutionary days with THCHX
8:53
Speaker 4: was the idea of you're constructing the means of your
8:58
Speaker 4: own oppression. That's the horror of THCHX, And that's the
9:02
Speaker 4: horror here is you're being made to build the machine.
9:05
Speaker 4: I don't know what the machine's for, but it doesn't
9:07
Speaker 4: look like it could be any good and it doesn't
9:09
Speaker 4: look like it serves any purpose other than this is
9:12
Speaker 4: going to go out somewhere and hurt you in some way,
9:14
Speaker 4: or it's going to help us build more prisons or
9:16
Speaker 4: something like that. And I think that winds up layering
9:20
Speaker 4: on a lot of ethical stuff that great sci fi
9:25
Speaker 4: brings into it because you have this question about the
9:28
Speaker 4: industrial prison. You have this question about a prison that
9:33
Speaker 4: sustains itself, that exists simply to exist, and then you
9:37
Speaker 4: have this additional idea of, well, in a world with robotics,
9:42
Speaker 4: why would anybody do physical labor? And you fight out
9:46
Speaker 4: because it's a great way to basically oppress somebody so
9:49
Speaker 4: that they're too tired to do anything. You have them
9:51
Speaker 4: contained and they can't fight back because they're just trying
9:54
Speaker 4: to survive.
9:55
Speaker 1: Day to day.
9:56
Speaker 4: And then the people who are the high achievers just say, oh, well,
10:00
Speaker 4: it's a game and will make your life even better.
10:03
Speaker 4: And this is where it pays off to see. This
10:08
Speaker 4: is the one thing where it finally lines up spending
10:11
Speaker 4: time with Cyril, because you get to see that he's
10:15
Speaker 4: not in prison in the sense that Andor is, but
10:19
Speaker 4: he's still in the prison of the outside world, that
10:22
Speaker 4: the Empire is turning everything into a prison, and it's
10:26
Speaker 4: all becoming dreary and awful. And I think that's that's
10:30
Speaker 4: the thing that really makes this episode sing. I think
10:33
Speaker 4: is that you have man Mathma's level up here, but
10:36
Speaker 4: then the people like Cyril and and Or they're just
10:39
Speaker 4: in two different types of prison and it's all in
10:42
Speaker 4: service of the machine.
10:44
Speaker 3: Well, and I mean, I just absolutely love Cyril's storyline
10:48
Speaker 3: here in that his whole story is about his quest
10:52
Speaker 3: to fail up.
10:53
Speaker 5: Like the dude.
10:54
Speaker 3: Says he's great at all this stuff, the dude's really
10:57
Speaker 3: kind of a failure and everything he's tried to do
10:59
Speaker 3: and he's tried to make him he has such a
11:01
Speaker 3: sense of self importance and in some ways, like I
11:06
Speaker 3: can't help but think that Tony Gilroy has to be
11:09
Speaker 3: talking about this throughout history, these people who just can't
11:13
Speaker 3: help but like think of themselves greater than they ought,
11:17
Speaker 3: but somehow find themselves in the middle of things that
11:21
Speaker 3: they shouldn't be a part of. And like that's zero.
11:24
Speaker 3: I mean, when he's talking to Dedra, it's just like
11:28
Speaker 3: he's so self important and she puts him in her place,
11:33
Speaker 3: and I just love it. And but like you said, John,
11:36
Speaker 3: you really do kind of see that this is the
11:39
Speaker 3: empire closing its fist in a way to which you
11:44
Speaker 3: could actually see people like maybe a cirial being a
11:48
Speaker 3: person who might break at some point and like want
11:50
Speaker 3: to join the rebellion because of the way they've been
11:53
Speaker 3: treated by the empire and they finally get that wake
11:56
Speaker 3: up call, you know, And because the Empire, like you mentioned,
12:00
Speaker 3: is just creating prisons everywhere, people just haven't woken up
12:05
Speaker 3: to that fact yet.
12:06
Speaker 5: Well, And one little thing is I think you hit
12:09
Speaker 5: it on the head, Matt, as I often remember, we
12:14
Speaker 5: think empire, oh, empire, bad, Empire is the galaxy is
12:18
Speaker 5: the government. So for the average citizen who wants life
12:24
Speaker 5: to be better, their planet to do better, prosperity, all
12:27
Speaker 5: of that, you know, they see the Empire as oh I.
12:32
Speaker 5: And that's I think Cyril's view is like I want
12:35
Speaker 5: the Empire to be better because I want everything to
12:37
Speaker 5: be better and I can be helpful, and we're like, well,
12:41
Speaker 5: not really cereal, but you know he thinks he can.
12:43
Speaker 5: So I think a lot of the best Star Wars
12:46
Speaker 5: literature is when you pull back the curtain a little
12:50
Speaker 5: bit and remember the Empire. Yes it's bad, Yes it's
12:55
Speaker 5: run in this bureaucracy, but it's also just a title
12:59
Speaker 5: for the way things are and the government and so
13:02
Speaker 5: there are and that's where it's really interesting to see
13:04
Speaker 5: people who get radicalized where they're like everything was going
13:09
Speaker 5: well and I was helping, and then I think Cyril's
13:12
Speaker 5: kind of path is but nobody's listening to me, and
13:15
Speaker 5: nobody's letting me help how I want to help. And
13:18
Speaker 5: I don't know where he's going to go exactly in
13:21
Speaker 5: season two, but I think there's possibilities for him to
13:24
Speaker 5: eventually flip and come to realizations.
13:27
Speaker 4: Well, well, you know what, Darren, this is something that
13:30
Speaker 4: I struggled with through and or is Cyril's storyline. Matt's
13:35
Speaker 4: even helped me make fun of it a little bit
13:38
Speaker 4: along the way. In all honesty, this is the first
13:42
Speaker 4: episode where the ceial storyline I'm sitting there saying, yes, okay,
13:48
Speaker 4: Cyril serves a thematic purpose. I want to ask you,
13:54
Speaker 4: because you're you're new to our specific conversation here, did
13:58
Speaker 4: you have trouble finding purchase with Cyril before this moment,
14:02
Speaker 4: before Narkina five? Or did the character always work with
14:05
Speaker 4: the way he was nested into the story for you?
14:10
Speaker 5: I didn't have as much of a problem with him,
14:12
Speaker 5: but I definitely see what you are getting at it.
14:16
Speaker 5: You know, when you're watching a show like this and
14:18
Speaker 5: it's jumping around between storylines, man, every time Luthan shows up, Oh,
14:22
Speaker 5: I'm glued, man, Mathma, I really wanted more of this
14:25
Speaker 5: and or obviously he's the lead character, and then you're
14:28
Speaker 5: like Cyril, and I'm like, Okay, I know we're gonna
14:31
Speaker 5: swing back around on Matma soon. So but I did
14:36
Speaker 5: enjoy his stuff on Ferris in the beginning. I think
14:39
Speaker 5: he was a very interesting character. I think overall, though,
14:43
Speaker 5: there was this kind of lull between the action of
14:46
Speaker 5: Ferrix and now where he kind of we didn't know
14:49
Speaker 5: what to do with him. We had to keep showing
14:52
Speaker 5: him a little bit. Otherwise he's gonna have disappeared for
14:55
Speaker 5: like three or four episodes and that's not good. But
15:00
Speaker 5: and he's definitely the slow Burn character where you're his arc.
15:05
Speaker 5: You know, he's the background character that we happen to
15:08
Speaker 5: know his name through the whole story. Obviously is a
15:10
Speaker 5: little more than that. But yeah, so overall, I see
15:15
Speaker 5: what you're saying, John about Cyril and his cereal.
15:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, but Cyril cereal, yea dude, go back
15:23
Speaker 3: to eating your wookie puffs And just you know, I want.
15:27
Speaker 4: To ask the two of you a question though, because
15:29
Speaker 4: and here I'm going to get controversial. We rarely get
15:32
Speaker 4: controversial on this show. But I got to get controversial here,
15:35
Speaker 4: and I'm going to ask it in the most non
15:37
Speaker 4: controversial manner because it really is just an intellectual question
15:40
Speaker 4: that I have Star Wars fans. There have been some
15:45
Speaker 4: online dust ups, and people have an image that gets
15:50
Speaker 4: rolled out every so often when certain segments of Star
15:52
Speaker 4: Wars population react poorly to something that's been released and
15:56
Speaker 4: stuff like that, and they get painted in a certain way.
16:01
Speaker 4: Narqina five very much gives us a moment focusing on
16:05
Speaker 4: a romantic relationship that is not Han and Leah. It's
16:09
Speaker 4: two women who care for each other very deeply, very obviously,
16:14
Speaker 4: and they spend time instead of dropping a hint of
16:17
Speaker 4: a glance or hands, they actually spend time discussing it.
16:23
Speaker 4: I mean, do you think that this basically shows that
16:26
Speaker 4: Star Wars fans, as long as you're telling the story, well,
16:28
Speaker 4: they don't really care about Like I look at this
16:31
Speaker 4: and I'm like, I don't remember anybody talking about that
16:35
Speaker 4: having a problem with this storyline at all in the
16:38
Speaker 4: context of and Or. Don't you think that kind of
16:40
Speaker 4: proves that and Er basically winds up being our proving
16:43
Speaker 4: ground that Star Wars fans are fine with anything you
16:46
Speaker 4: throw out them that's done well.
16:48
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that you said it perfectly, and
16:53
Speaker 3: I think the reason that it works is because the
16:55
Speaker 3: storyline is furthering the overall story line of what does
17:01
Speaker 3: it mean for each person to be a part of
17:04
Speaker 3: this rebellion? You know, everybody has their own rebellion, as
17:08
Speaker 3: we learned in the heist arc, and even though the
17:14
Speaker 3: person who told that to us was a liar, it's
17:18
Speaker 3: proven to be true. And so learning that vow is
17:23
Speaker 3: this rich girl, you know, playing rebellion person who's fallen
17:29
Speaker 3: in love with somebody who truly like the struggle comes first,
17:32
Speaker 3: the cause comes first, and it's always going to be
17:34
Speaker 3: that way until they've won or she's dead. And that
17:39
Speaker 3: having to then challenge vowels preconceptions and conceptions about what
17:45
Speaker 3: this is and what this isn't, I think is incredibly interesting.
17:50
Speaker 3: And so you're right. You write a good story that
17:55
Speaker 3: plays with the rest of the thematic elements that we're
18:00
Speaker 3: dealing with, and I don't think anybody has a problem
18:03
Speaker 3: with that. I think everybody finds that to be valid. Then,
18:08
Speaker 3: as a storytelling what structure like, you're not doing anything
18:15
Speaker 3: that's taking away from the story, you're actually adding to
18:18
Speaker 3: the story, and so it's not about what somebody's relationship
18:22
Speaker 3: status is. Then it really just comes down to two
18:25
Speaker 3: people who are trying to deal with the reality that
18:29
Speaker 3: they're in and they happen to be in this relationship.
18:34
Speaker 3: And yet that's not the really important part. The important
18:38
Speaker 3: part is how their lives are telling us something about
18:41
Speaker 3: what it means to be in this struggle against the Empire.
18:45
Speaker 3: And to me, again, I don't have a problem with
18:52
Speaker 3: that then, because it's doing what it's supposed to do.
18:55
Speaker 3: It's adding to the story, not subtracting from the story.
19:00
Speaker 5: Now, I think those characters, they are who Cassian is
19:06
Speaker 5: in Rogue one, they're there. You know this, I've been
19:09
Speaker 5: in the fight since six years old, you know, like
19:11
Speaker 5: living the fight. But when we're visiting Cassian right now,
19:16
Speaker 5: he is not there yet. He is just on the
19:18
Speaker 5: beginning of his journey. But we can see the parallels
19:20
Speaker 5: where he is going to as far as the rebellion
19:25
Speaker 5: and being you know, on the wrong side of it. Again,
19:30
Speaker 5: the fact that this is a prison episode and the
19:33
Speaker 5: fact I love you know, in the previous where he
19:36
Speaker 5: gets sentenced and all of that, and you just the
19:38
Speaker 5: futility of it where you're like literally wrong place, wrong time,
19:42
Speaker 5: and now you're in prison. And because you can see
19:46
Speaker 5: Cassian's arc where it was trajectory of oh, I'll just
19:51
Speaker 5: I got some money, I'll just go live in a
19:53
Speaker 5: quiet spot, and what he's realizing is no, the Empires everywhere.
19:58
Speaker 5: There is no safe haven. There is no safe spot.
20:01
Speaker 5: So but yeah, but to to your point, John, Yeah,
20:06
Speaker 5: I don't remember anything being discussed. I think everyone was
20:11
Speaker 5: just one way out, one way and that's all I heard,
20:14
Speaker 5: you know, across the internet. So when you have such
20:18
Speaker 5: great set pieces and luth and speeches and you know,
20:22
Speaker 5: the Hallcraft sequence like this movie or this movie, it
20:26
Speaker 5: is a movie. This series was just blasting on all syllob.
20:31
Speaker 4: Well, I'm glad you mentioned Keno Lloyd because does anybody
20:33
Speaker 4: else find it extremely funny that Andy Serkis is actually
20:37
Speaker 4: making his second appearance in Star Wars. But this is
20:39
Speaker 4: the one everybody talks about like he was in a
20:42
Speaker 4: billion dollar movie. I mean, whether you loved or hated
20:45
Speaker 4: the Last Jedi, it made a lot of money, and
20:47
Speaker 4: he was he was in Force Awakens as well. Nobody
20:51
Speaker 4: talks about Snoke. Everybody talks about this one, and like,
20:55
Speaker 4: I just think it's funny that the guy known for
20:57
Speaker 4: doing incredible CG work, what he's known for in are
21:00
Speaker 4: Wars is the most the most bare bones practical lighting.
21:06
Speaker 3: No cig bare bones, bare butt. I mean we get
21:10
Speaker 3: it all from from Kenot.
21:12
Speaker 1: Wait what are you talking.
21:13
Speaker 5: About, John? He has an extra orange shoulder pass very different.
21:18
Speaker 1: That's right.
21:18
Speaker 5: Every other Trizza they.
21:19
Speaker 1: Had to add that in post I forgot as a
21:22
Speaker 1: as ah No, no, no, no, I mean I'm making it.
21:25
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm gonna say yeah, because he's the shift leader,
21:30
Speaker 5: so he's got the extra shoulder.
21:31
Speaker 4: Just like the pauldron on on the sand Trooper, as
21:35
Speaker 4: the figure was called back in the day.
21:38
Speaker 3: I want to ask you guys about this, because what
21:42
Speaker 3: was really interesting is something you were keying in to
21:45
Speaker 3: just a little bit earlier, Darren uh and the way
21:48
Speaker 3: in which you know, the empire functions now and for
21:51
Speaker 3: people this is just the government, and really people are
21:53
Speaker 3: just kind of like, I just want to live my life, man,
21:56
Speaker 3: you know. And we see that struggle play out as
21:59
Speaker 3: one Mathma is trying to fight against this latest imperial overreach,
22:06
Speaker 3: and we just see all of these people, all of
22:08
Speaker 3: these senators just kind of buying the imperial bs hoo
22:12
Speaker 3: client sinker. They don't care, you know, I mean, why
22:15
Speaker 3: should we worry if.
22:16
Speaker 5: It's not directly impacting me?
22:18
Speaker 3: If I'm good, anything wrong, you know? And then she's like,
22:21
Speaker 3: but who defines what then is the wrong thing? And
22:25
Speaker 3: so what the question that's being asked about? You know,
22:30
Speaker 3: are you really free if you keep giving your freedoms away?
22:35
Speaker 3: And the name of security? You know, and that I
22:40
Speaker 3: loved you were kind of hitting on that earlier. But
22:42
Speaker 3: I love the way that this plays out then with
22:45
Speaker 3: the arena that mon Mathma finds her in where she's
22:49
Speaker 3: finding less and less people to kind of rally to
22:53
Speaker 3: her cause because people are just kind of starting to
22:56
Speaker 3: drink the Imperial kool aid.
23:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, on Mathma's arc in this show, I remember when
23:05
Speaker 5: they were like, oh, Andrew's coming, oh and mon Matha
23:07
Speaker 5: was in it, and we were all like, really like
23:10
Speaker 5: the senator girl from you know many Bothams died because
23:13
Speaker 5: that's all we knew.
23:15
Speaker 1: But man, what a character.
23:18
Speaker 5: Because it is such a unique position she's in and
23:23
Speaker 5: getting to see things through the lens of her story
23:26
Speaker 5: as the as the fists of the Empire slowly closing around.
23:30
Speaker 5: And I honestly the most tense moments are bon Mathma moments,
23:37
Speaker 5: especially when she's talking to other senators and you're like, man,
23:39
Speaker 5: if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person,
23:42
Speaker 5: you're done. And yeah again, I in true Star Wars
23:48
Speaker 5: fashioned you know, banking clans and taxes and routing numbers
23:53
Speaker 5: are important in Star Wars. But they are because they're
23:56
Speaker 5: tying it to the character. They're tying it to We
23:59
Speaker 5: want mon author to succeed. We want her to fund
24:02
Speaker 5: the rebellion because I never thought about who pays for
24:05
Speaker 5: X wing Fighters and Yavin for It's just go go shoot,
24:09
Speaker 5: you know, shoot down the Dusk Star. But yeah, it
24:12
Speaker 5: pulls back the curtain a bit on the rebellion in
24:15
Speaker 5: a practical way. But yeah, you need funds, you need money.
24:20
Speaker 5: And when the banks you know, change and are now
24:23
Speaker 5: the government, you know that that is a problem. So yeah, man,
24:27
Speaker 5: Mathma was a delightful you know gem in the middle
24:32
Speaker 5: of this show.
24:33
Speaker 1: Well what I what, I.
24:34
Speaker 4: Give a lot of credit pulling on that threadned specific
24:37
Speaker 4: I think that the it's gonna be difficult for me
24:41
Speaker 4: to put it in words. So if I butcher this,
24:43
Speaker 4: you guys, bring me back in just pantomime at John.
24:46
Speaker 4: You know what, expressive art. Podcasting is a very visual medium.
24:50
Speaker 4: So I'm speechless for the next three minutes. I'll do
24:54
Speaker 4: an interpretive dance for everybody. Just imagine Siseutle singing behind
24:57
Speaker 4: me right now. But it is the fact that the episodes,
25:03
Speaker 4: the George Lucas episodes, they're big, overblown, mythical, fairy tale stuff.
25:10
Speaker 4: What I love about when things are working in and
25:14
Speaker 4: Or or in the Clone Wars series, or in Bad
25:17
Speaker 4: Batch or in Rebels, is it is getting its descending
25:21
Speaker 4: into those particulars because the upper level stuff. This is
25:26
Speaker 4: never going to be a movie. This should never be
25:30
Speaker 4: a movie in the big blockbuster sense. They are adapting
25:35
Speaker 4: to the medium appropriately because you're already bought in. They
25:39
Speaker 4: know they can go into these particulars because you're already sold,
25:43
Speaker 4: and you're going to have those questions where you say, well,
25:46
Speaker 4: wait a minute, how because you're going to you've watched
25:48
Speaker 4: Star Wars five thousand times in your life and.
25:51
Speaker 1: You're like, well, wait a minute, why would you do that?
25:54
Speaker 4: And then you have an episode where you have mon
25:58
Speaker 4: Mathma gently teasing out and trying to find out who
26:01
Speaker 4: her allies could be, because she's not just prodding in
26:07
Speaker 4: the sense of trying to get support in the Senate.
26:11
Speaker 4: We see her in the previous episode, and I think
26:14
Speaker 4: it recasts it. She's trying to figure out who she
26:17
Speaker 4: could possibly recruit in some way to assist her, and
26:22
Speaker 4: these little probing questions and statements are the ones.
26:27
Speaker 1: How strong is you?
26:28
Speaker 4: Well, the PRD is the thing that's going to save
26:30
Speaker 4: us all okay, Oh well, I hear you, Senator.
26:33
Speaker 1: That's great.
26:33
Speaker 4: And in the back of her brain she's like, Okay,
26:36
Speaker 4: that person's a dead end. Let me go have a
26:38
Speaker 4: conversation over here and see what this person says about
26:42
Speaker 4: something like that. What excited me about this episode, as
26:46
Speaker 4: you know, what tickled my fancy, I should say, as
26:50
Speaker 4: somebody who is a longtime fan is seeing Saugerera because
26:56
Speaker 4: I've loved this character since the Clone Wars. I love
26:59
Speaker 4: that he came in to wrote two Tubes, right, yeah,
27:02
Speaker 4: everybody two Tubes two tubes fan favorite. But but seriously,
27:06
Speaker 4: seeing Saw, I'm like, that's the that's the character that
27:11
Speaker 4: ties it together for me where I where what Saw
27:14
Speaker 4: looks like At a certain point, I'm like, Okay, how
27:17
Speaker 4: far is Saw gone? And it's crazy because when you
27:20
Speaker 4: really think about it, you see the entire progression of
27:25
Speaker 4: the fight in Sau's character. He's a love mark character.
27:31
Speaker 4: He's never gonna be there's never gonna be Saw Guerrera
27:33
Speaker 4: the series, but he's a benchmark for me, and I
27:38
Speaker 4: think they do a great job of having him be
27:40
Speaker 4: a benchmark here because he's not as off the deep
27:43
Speaker 4: end as he is in Rogue One, but his outfits
27:46
Speaker 4: a little bit closer than when I saw him in
27:49
Speaker 4: uh In bad Batch, but it's not as far gone
27:52
Speaker 4: as it was necessarily in Rebels, you know.
27:54
Speaker 1: Like, so I'm like, okay, okay, I got Saw here.
27:57
Speaker 4: I got I got a handle on where I am
27:59
Speaker 4: in the time because of this one character that's carried
28:01
Speaker 4: through So I just I know, it seems like an
28:04
Speaker 4: odd thing to fixate on, but every time I see Saw,
28:07
Speaker 4: he's such a great benchmark, benchmark character.
28:09
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I think the beauty of Saw is
28:12
Speaker 3: that he is the picture of the trauma of this
28:18
Speaker 3: from beginning to end, you know, and the kind of
28:24
Speaker 3: I think almost psychosis that it puts him in right,
28:28
Speaker 3: he keeps you know, what's interesting is that Luthen and him,
28:32
Speaker 3: I think two sides of the same coin in the
28:34
Speaker 3: sense they're both willing to do whatever it takes. But
28:39
Speaker 3: Luthan has a better mental handle on it because I
28:43
Speaker 3: think it feels like he's come to this in a
28:45
Speaker 3: more intellectual sense, whereas Saw has just had to live
28:50
Speaker 3: through the tyranny in a very physical way, which is
28:54
Speaker 3: affected than him his his his mental state, you know,
28:58
Speaker 3: from the clone wars on right, And so I think
29:02
Speaker 3: that's really really fascinating for me to watch them play
29:07
Speaker 3: this dance together, because they're not really all that different
29:11
Speaker 3: of characters. But Saw is more psychologically broken at this
29:17
Speaker 3: point than Luthen is. Even though Luthan knows that he
29:21
Speaker 3: is giving up a piece of his humanity to do
29:24
Speaker 3: whatever it takes and be willing to do whatever it takes.
29:28
Speaker 3: It's almost like Saw, it's almost like he didn't really
29:33
Speaker 3: have the choice because the things that happened to him
29:37
Speaker 3: were already breaking him, and he didn't ever have a
29:41
Speaker 3: chance to be able to come to this because it
29:46
Speaker 3: was an intellectualise exercise. It just was, you know, that
29:50
Speaker 3: was just his life. And I find it really fascinating
29:54
Speaker 3: to see the two sides of that I'm with you John,
29:58
Speaker 3: like seeing him in this show and getting his already
30:03
Speaker 3: sense of like paranoia and the fact that the whole
30:07
Speaker 3: reason that Lutheran pulled the Aldaonni heist set that up,
30:13
Speaker 3: is because he knew that at this point, we've got
30:16
Speaker 3: to start trying to bring these factions together. And so
30:19
Speaker 3: when Saul starts labeling all of these different, you know,
30:23
Speaker 3: political factions on the rebellion side, Luthan's like, we got
30:29
Speaker 3: to start setting that stuff aside, because unless we pull together,
30:34
Speaker 3: the Empire will just pick us apart one by one.
30:37
Speaker 3: And Saul is that character who's who we know is
30:42
Speaker 3: never going to get to the place where he's going
30:44
Speaker 3: to be really on anybody's side but his own.
30:48
Speaker 5: And I will say with saw is, but he does
30:52
Speaker 5: have a point is how we wage war is very important.
30:56
Speaker 5: And I think that's his point, is that all the
30:58
Speaker 5: different factions. Now, granted he's a little more on the
31:01
Speaker 5: extreme end of that spectrum, but uh yeah. But I
31:06
Speaker 5: think one of the best things about saw Is, and
31:09
Speaker 5: I give this as a tribute to the whole entire show,
31:13
Speaker 5: is it's balanced between I will say legacy characters, meaning
31:17
Speaker 5: characters that existed before and Or and like new characters.
31:21
Speaker 5: So for every Saw or Man Mathma or and Or himself,
31:27
Speaker 5: you know, things like Keino Loy or Cyril or you
31:31
Speaker 5: know ded Dedra being definitely a shining star. So I
31:39
Speaker 5: love the fact that it is Saw because everything you
31:43
Speaker 5: just said, Matt, there's so much backstory to what is
31:48
Speaker 5: driving this character that we've seen. If it had just
31:50
Speaker 5: been Partisan Leader number four in the Caves with like,
31:55
Speaker 5: it wouldn't have been as nearly an interesting conversation. We
31:58
Speaker 5: wouldn't have cared about as much. So I think I'm
32:03
Speaker 5: just I guess tipping my hat to and Or in
32:06
Speaker 5: the fact that they seem to know when to pull
32:10
Speaker 5: out those legacy characters of oh, yeah, this should be
32:14
Speaker 5: Saw these part of this story, or this should be now. Granted,
32:17
Speaker 5: you can definitely get too overhanded with that, and like
32:20
Speaker 5: and then Galen Erso walks around the corner, you know,
32:23
Speaker 5: in the office complex, Like, you can overdo it. But
32:26
Speaker 5: I think having it be Saw as kind of this
32:30
Speaker 5: mirror to Luthan is really interesting.
32:34
Speaker 4: Is there any concern though? And the thing is, I
32:37
Speaker 4: think I know the answer is because of you know
32:40
Speaker 4: what we were talking about earlier in terms of like,
32:42
Speaker 4: you know, the bigger upper level like mass market movies
32:45
Speaker 4: and you're already bought in sort of thing. But is
32:49
Speaker 4: is it ever in danger of becoming too much inside
32:52
Speaker 4: baseball for the hardcore fan because Saw is not a
32:56
Speaker 4: character that I can necessarily sell. For instance, to my wife,
33:00
Speaker 4: she barely remembers Rogue one, and so I'll see Saw
33:05
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh cool, it's Saw and to her Darren,
33:08
Speaker 4: to her it is just you know, it is that
33:11
Speaker 4: partisan number, partisan number five. Oh and it's Forrest Whitaker.
33:14
Speaker 4: I saw him in Good Morning Vietnam. That's right, you know, that's.
33:17
Speaker 5: Okay thing, that's a that's a good point. I mean,
33:23
Speaker 5: you're always going to have that difficulty with sci fi.
33:26
Speaker 5: I think that's one of the reasons that Star Wars
33:30
Speaker 5: does well with a lot of the names and things
33:33
Speaker 5: where it's kind of an English she's sounding name, but
33:35
Speaker 5: maybe it's got two a's in it, or it's got
33:37
Speaker 5: you know, something spacey because you know, what do they say,
33:42
Speaker 5: like to the unknown, everyone is a you know what
33:46
Speaker 5: a like a glove show, like you just don't know
33:49
Speaker 5: who he is. It's just so yeah, there's definitely that
33:53
Speaker 5: problem of you start naming and Sci Fi does this
33:57
Speaker 5: a lot where they're like, oh, I need to get
34:00
Speaker 5: on the XR five super Transport and then we're gonna
34:04
Speaker 5: go to Narkeina five and I'm gonna meet ken Olly.
34:07
Speaker 5: And it's like you just sat a bunch of proper
34:08
Speaker 5: names and I have no idea what you're talking about.
34:11
Speaker 5: Like that is the definite, you know problem you have
34:15
Speaker 5: to fight again.
34:15
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm adjusting my milliicochrites over here exactly get
34:19
Speaker 4: the proper warp factor in place.
34:22
Speaker 5: But I think Star Wars in general, one of the
34:25
Speaker 5: things I love about Star Wars is it takes a
34:29
Speaker 5: broader paintbrush in general to the universe. It's a ship,
34:34
Speaker 5: it's a transport, it's a droid, it's a planet. It's
34:40
Speaker 5: using big terms and names. Yes, obviously you have to
34:43
Speaker 5: name things. You can't just be like person over there,
34:46
Speaker 5: it's like they have a name. But and again you're
34:50
Speaker 5: only gonna get what you invest into consuming the story.
34:54
Speaker 2: But I think.
34:54
Speaker 5: Overall, for a sci Fi property, Star Wars seems to
34:58
Speaker 5: balance it pretty well. But yeah, like you said, John,
35:03
Speaker 5: then they just need to construct their scenes where it
35:08
Speaker 5: pays off. That it saw, but it also is just
35:11
Speaker 5: as impactful, maybe not just, but it's also impactful at
35:14
Speaker 5: a level to the unknown, the unknown view.
35:19
Speaker 4: That's where I'll actually give this episode credit is it
35:21
Speaker 4: does exactly that. The fact that it saw is a
35:25
Speaker 4: love mark that the three of us can love. But
35:29
Speaker 4: the point of the scene is Lutheran, a character we
35:32
Speaker 4: know in the context of this show, talking to someone
35:36
Speaker 4: about making the rebellion work better and work together. So
35:41
Speaker 4: I think this is one of the I will give
35:43
Speaker 4: Gilroy and I think Bo Willeman actually wrote this episode.
35:48
Speaker 4: But over you know, over the course of you know,
35:51
Speaker 4: Tony Gilroy, Dan Gilroy, Bo Willman, all of the writers
35:54
Speaker 4: that are involved in this, this is a properly written scene.
35:58
Speaker 4: It's a properly written episode overall, because everything works in
36:03
Speaker 4: the context of the shit.
36:04
Speaker 1: It's dealing on its own terms.
36:05
Speaker 4: It's following its own rules and guidelines as opposed to
36:09
Speaker 4: relying on properties that came before. And I think that's
36:12
Speaker 4: what I think, that's what all three of us are
36:14
Speaker 4: responding to. But I mean, you know, I mean, Matt,
36:19
Speaker 4: you know obviously, I know that we're all singing the
36:22
Speaker 4: praises and everything. Is there anything that falls short on
36:25
Speaker 4: any episode.
36:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I mean I think they are able to
36:32
Speaker 3: create more of a reason for being with Cyril, especially
36:37
Speaker 3: now that we've kind of connected him with Deirdre and
36:40
Speaker 3: the ISB. And I think in some ways we're kind
36:43
Speaker 3: of seeing the unhinged nature of this person. But I
36:47
Speaker 3: still think he is the weakest link of this episode,
36:51
Speaker 3: because everything else in this episode is just fascinating, especially
36:55
Speaker 3: the way in which you know, you connect the fact
36:58
Speaker 3: that we started by talking about that and Or has
37:01
Speaker 3: become you know, enemy number one for the ISB. They're
37:04
Speaker 3: looking for him, and so what they've done is they
37:07
Speaker 3: begin to drill down on Feryx, and really and Or
37:11
Speaker 3: has become this knife's edge for a lot of people
37:14
Speaker 3: who knew him, right, Luthan is that way right, He's
37:20
Speaker 3: he is constantly worried about the fact that, you know,
37:23
Speaker 3: this loose end that he utilized could be the undoing
37:27
Speaker 3: of everything that they're trying to do. And it's unraveling
37:29
Speaker 3: things now on Feryx, where Bix has been picked up
37:32
Speaker 3: by the Empire and things are starting to go really
37:35
Speaker 3: bad in his hometown because he drew attention to them
37:40
Speaker 3: in a really bad way and so that's the thing
37:44
Speaker 3: that to me, it's like all of that stuff is
37:46
Speaker 3: working so well. And then the way in which everything
37:49
Speaker 3: that's happening in the prison connects with everything that's happening
37:52
Speaker 3: with mon Mathma and all and again they're still for me,
37:57
Speaker 3: and again, I love this show.
37:58
Speaker 1: It's it.
37:59
Speaker 3: I would say it's the best thing that Disney Plus
38:02
Speaker 3: has done Star Wars wise, even over like the Mandalorian,
38:05
Speaker 3: this is this is phenomenal Star Wars. To me, I
38:08
Speaker 3: still don't think that the serial storyline is playing on
38:13
Speaker 3: the same level that all the other storylines are playing on.
38:16
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I mean that, you know, I'm just
38:21
Speaker 3: I've never been afraid of saying, hey, something doesn't quite
38:24
Speaker 3: work for me.
38:25
Speaker 1: Darren.
38:25
Speaker 4: Do you think that it betrays anything about the character
38:31
Speaker 4: or does it betray anything about and Or or does
38:34
Speaker 4: it support something about and or the fact that he's
38:37
Speaker 4: in this prison situation and it never seems to occur
38:42
Speaker 4: to him that he has information he could barter by saying, wait,
38:47
Speaker 4: I was hit this heist, I could give you more information,
38:51
Speaker 4: I could send people up. Do you think that that's
38:54
Speaker 4: an oversight because it never plays to me that he's
38:57
Speaker 4: making a conscious decision not to be a day. He
39:01
Speaker 4: just seems not to realize he has this powerful piece
39:04
Speaker 4: of information to sell. So where where do you fall
39:07
Speaker 4: on that part of it?
39:10
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think I mean because I'd never even thought
39:13
Speaker 5: about that until you you mentioned it. So yeah, in
39:17
Speaker 5: one way, he doesn't. Yeah, he definitely doesn't play that card.
39:22
Speaker 1: Honestly.
39:23
Speaker 5: I think what it comes down to is the design
39:25
Speaker 5: of the prison. He's never seeing a guard, he's never
39:30
Speaker 5: like except for Keena Loy as the supervisor, but then
39:35
Speaker 5: that's in the tiniest of names as opposed to actual power.
39:40
Speaker 5: So there is no real situation where he could, hey,
39:45
Speaker 5: I need some time off that. Like, he's so crushed
39:47
Speaker 5: at this point on being in the prison and the
39:52
Speaker 5: situation that he's in. I don't think he's even considering
39:57
Speaker 5: you know, he's not even considering.
39:59
Speaker 1: Escape at this point.
40:00
Speaker 5: See, he's just like letting it wash over him.
40:02
Speaker 1: See.
40:03
Speaker 4: I would have liked a line as they're like marching
40:06
Speaker 4: him up and they're like keep moving. You know that
40:08
Speaker 4: the shot troopers are there, Keep moving, keep moving, and
40:11
Speaker 4: him saying.
40:11
Speaker 5: Last sign of last time.
40:12
Speaker 4: You see, I have information I can I can tell
40:15
Speaker 4: more about about these people.
40:17
Speaker 1: And they ignore him. Like to me that that seems
40:20
Speaker 1: to be.
40:22
Speaker 5: Well, that's the not Empire's mantra is just arrogant.
40:26
Speaker 3: But I think that. But but John, I think that
40:28
Speaker 3: comes to something that we were talking about last episode,
40:31
Speaker 3: where we have actually seen pieces of and Or's character again,
40:36
Speaker 3: go back to him paying the people that he owed
40:38
Speaker 3: money to on Ferks before he left, which he didn't
40:41
Speaker 3: have to do. There's something about him that I think
40:44
Speaker 3: connects with the fact that these people were trying to
40:47
Speaker 3: do this thing. It's probably good for the universe. I
40:49
Speaker 3: don't want to be a part of it, but I'm
40:51
Speaker 3: not going to sell them out because.
40:53
Speaker 5: The fact that he like kills the the other team
40:56
Speaker 5: member that was going to betray them and take the money.
40:59
Speaker 5: Like again, we've we've seen his characters. So let's say
41:02
Speaker 5: he does offer up names and people, they're just going
41:06
Speaker 5: to go to prison or be killed, Like and He's He's.
41:10
Speaker 1: Still going to go to prison. I do that. He's
41:11
Speaker 1: still going to go to prison.
41:12
Speaker 4: For a crime, right, Yeah, even if he tries to
41:16
Speaker 4: although although I will say.
41:17
Speaker 5: That's true, that's true. I know about the heist. It's like, oh,
41:20
Speaker 5: so you're now they realize you're number one on the
41:24
Speaker 5: most wanted list, right You're.
41:25
Speaker 1: You just made it worse.
41:26
Speaker 5: You're not going anywhere. You made it way better.
41:29
Speaker 4: And maybe maybe that just makes him a smarter character,
41:31
Speaker 4: because I can guarantee you that I would start squealing
41:34
Speaker 4: like like the mob would hate me because I'd become
41:37
Speaker 4: Henry Hill the second that I got pinched, I'd be
41:39
Speaker 4: go like yeah right, names. I can tell you everybody.
41:42
Speaker 4: Jimmy was selling all of this stuff. Yeah yea, yeah
41:44
Speaker 4: him too, Tommy. Tommy was involved, Like I I'm sorry, guys,
41:48
Speaker 4: don't ever involve me in a heist, is what I'm saying,
41:50
Speaker 4: because I will sell you down.
41:52
Speaker 1: The river for immunity in a heartbeat.
41:54
Speaker 4: Is it?
41:54
Speaker 3: Is it that? Though part of this too is that
41:58
Speaker 3: I think what and Ors wanted learning is that with
42:01
Speaker 3: the Empire, there is no bargaining, There is no nothing
42:05
Speaker 3: right because they don't care, Like He's truly realized, they
42:09
Speaker 3: don't care enough to care because they don't have to.
42:12
Speaker 3: And so nothing I do or say is actually going
42:15
Speaker 3: to matter to anyone anyway. And so the only way
42:19
Speaker 3: for my voice to matter in any way, shape or
42:22
Speaker 3: form in the end is going to have to be
42:25
Speaker 3: to get rid of them. And that's the thing that
42:28
Speaker 3: you know we'll see in the next few episodes, is
42:32
Speaker 3: that sense of rebellion, that spark of rebellion to quote rebels,
42:39
Speaker 3: is going to grow in him. And he's not only
42:43
Speaker 3: going to spark that rebellion in himself, but he's going
42:46
Speaker 3: to be the person who sparks that in others and
42:50
Speaker 3: fans that flame than them to allow that type of
42:54
Speaker 3: thing to happen. And so we're just seeing the birth
42:59
Speaker 3: of the and Or we know, like you know, he's
43:04
Speaker 3: now in the cocoon, and by the time we get
43:07
Speaker 3: out of this this arc, he's going to become the
43:11
Speaker 3: person that we know basically, and then we're going to
43:15
Speaker 3: see that just continue to grow Uh and then and
43:18
Speaker 3: through the next season. And so, like you were saying earlier, Darren,
43:21
Speaker 3: like there's just such a brilliance once we get to
43:24
Speaker 3: this point in the season where all these story points,
43:27
Speaker 3: because this show really, even though we have all these
43:30
Speaker 3: other ancillary characters, this show truly is still about the
43:37
Speaker 3: metamorphosis of and Or Uh and who will see there
43:42
Speaker 3: in Rogue one And this is one of those places
43:44
Speaker 3: where it's like they're you mentioned earlier, John, they're just
43:49
Speaker 3: kind of starting to fire on I mean, cylinders we
43:52
Speaker 3: didn't even know existed.
43:55
Speaker 5: Well, And I wouldn't forget that there's a time jump
43:58
Speaker 5: in this episode because he's in prison. There's a shot
44:02
Speaker 5: where it goes to the clock and then I mean,
44:05
Speaker 5: we can't quite read it. It's really quick, but I
44:07
Speaker 5: think it's like a month at least, so there's I mean,
44:13
Speaker 5: it's not a year, but it is a chunk of
44:15
Speaker 5: time that you know, explains how he's settled into his routine.
44:19
Speaker 5: But also that means that a month has passed outside
44:22
Speaker 5: for all of our other characters moving around.
44:26
Speaker 1: Yes, and.
44:29
Speaker 4: You know, I again, I think all three of us
44:31
Speaker 4: love this episode. I think this one gets probably highest
44:35
Speaker 4: marks of the season so far.
44:36
Speaker 1: Would that be fair to say so far?
44:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, highest marks so far. But that's such a charged
44:43
Speaker 4: way to put it that, Darren. I hope maybe we
44:45
Speaker 4: can have you back for other discussions, because this has
44:47
Speaker 4: been a lot of fun having you join us for this.
44:50
Speaker 4: But if people want to capture that spark of rebellion,
44:54
Speaker 4: or maybe a spark that could power K two s
44:58
Speaker 4: in real life, where can they Where can they find you?
45:00
Speaker 1: Online? And here on the network, No sparks.
45:03
Speaker 5: We keep the magic smoke inside the machines. They can
45:07
Speaker 5: find me at Doctorscifi, dot Com, dr sci Fi and
45:10
Speaker 5: that's links to all my socials.
45:12
Speaker 4: Awesome, awesome, And of course you can find me here
45:15
Speaker 4: on the network on this show. But also Darren and
45:19
Speaker 4: I are on a show together, house Lights, where we
45:21
Speaker 4: talk about the work of directors. We have a lot
45:24
Speaker 4: of fun over there. I have a lot of fun
45:26
Speaker 4: introducing Darren to movies he's never seen before. But there
45:30
Speaker 4: is a whole subgenre of movies that I'm fighting to
45:33
Speaker 4: get up there. And someday Neil Breen will be a
45:36
Speaker 4: director that we examine on house Lights. You can find
45:39
Speaker 4: me as Castle Junkie out there. Have fun. Track me down, Matt.
45:43
Speaker 4: Where can people find you?
45:44
Speaker 3: I'm all over social media under the name Matt Rushing
45:46
Speaker 3: Zoe two. Of course here in the network, I've got
45:48
Speaker 3: a completed show with Dre Kaufman about every single chapter
45:51
Speaker 3: the Harry Potter series called owl Post. And then you'll
45:54
Speaker 3: find me over on the tf net network with a
45:56
Speaker 3: lot of different shows. The one that everybody's probably really
45:59
Speaker 3: interested here, especially lots of Star Wars Talk, but all
46:02
Speaker 3: the other franchises we love is the six or two Club,
46:05
Speaker 3: and then lots of great star trek talk with my
46:08
Speaker 3: good friend Chris Jones over there, so hopefully everybody will
46:11
Speaker 3: check that out. But John, you know, I hear that
46:14
Speaker 3: they're serving some really interestingction drilling cuisine over at the Embassy,
46:20
Speaker 3: So I think it's time to close these negotiations.
46:23
Speaker 4: So long as you don't have the fizzy worms that
46:25
Speaker 4: get you drunk in and master Rushing and Master Moser
46:31
Speaker 4: negotiations are clubs.
46:38
Speaker 2: Join the Revolution, Join the nerd Party.