Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Burning Man pt. 1

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Burning Man pt. 1 · Why We Do What We Do

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do? Welcome
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do. I am your
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Naked in the Desert host Abraham, and I'm.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Your No God the Bees host Shane. Oh wait, no,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: that's wicker Man. That's a different thing. I'm your I'll
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: bring my suntan lotion host Shane.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, wow, fake outs. I love it. We are a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: psychology podcast. We talk about the things that humans and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: non human animals do, and we're we're doing a very
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: out of season events discussion right now that we've already
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: sort of illustrated what it is and you probably saw
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: in the title and whatever. We're going to talk about
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: that thing. But if you're joining us for the first time, welcome.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed this discussion. If you're returning,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: thank you for coming back. We hope that you enjoy
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: this one, this one as much or more in the
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: last one, and just keep finding your way to us
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: either way. If you would like to support us, and
• 1:04
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• 1:12
  Speaker 1: talk more about those things at the end of this discussion.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: But if you're listening to this on the day that
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: it publishes, you're like in the swing of the new
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: year and you're on top of your podcast feeds. Then
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: it is January twenty first, And as you know, because
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: it is January twenty first, we would like to wish
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: you a happy International Playdate Day.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, obviously everybody knows about that.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's also International Sweatpants Day. Ooh, check. It is
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Mariachi Day. Love that.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: It is Museum's Selfie Day.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Sure, sell for yourself stealing a work of art. Don't
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: do that, don't yea. It is National Baker's Crafters Makers Day,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: so like do stuff. Yeah.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of like job titles. It is
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: National Cheesy Socks Day.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Socks made out of cheese, made out of socks, I think, yes,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: why not? What are rules? Sure?
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's mostly just goofy socks.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, socks with goofy on them? Yeah okay, oh okay.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And is National Conscious Uncoupling Day? All right? Sure, say
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the TV show upload for an example. Maybe. Yeah.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: It's National Granola bar Day. Delicious?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Is National hug your Puppy Day. Indeed, I love that.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: It's National Hugging Day, so hugging and may include puppies,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: is what I take from that should include puppies, should
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: should include puppies. Correct? Is National Max Day? I think
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: interpret that however you want. I mean, maybe you already know.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's Mad Max. Maybe it's like Maximum. Maybe it's
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Maximum Overdrive.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's Max from Stranger Things.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it's Master knows.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: It is also New England clam Chowder Day, though, all right, it.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: As one liner's day. I feel like we've already squezed
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: a few of those in a couple.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: It's own your own Home Day. Good luck with that, Millennials,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good luck with that. Indeed, you can also call
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: own your own Home Day. Ha, You're screwed, Yep, yep day.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: That's the day. It is, Yeah, squirrel Appreciation Day. I
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: love that. That's sweet.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: It's weedless Wednesday, Okay, Cancer Talk Week. Yeah, as one
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: word which I thought was strange. Yeah, It's Energy saving Week,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: healthy weight Week, Hunt for Happiness Week, whatever type of
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: species happiness is.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Sure. It's National Fresh Squeezed Juice Week.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Delicious National Handwriting Analysis Week. Go check out our didn't
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: we do an episode on handwriting analysis?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I think we did. I think we did. We've definitely
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: talked about it. Yeah, it's nonsense. National Irish Coffee Week.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's a no name calling week, so just
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: say hey when you try to reach out to me,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: all right, you scab, it's kidding.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: It is Sugar Awareness Week. If you didn't know, we
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: have a food stuff called sugar. Mm hmm.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I love me some sugar. So it's
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  Speaker 2: a real problem.
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  Speaker 1: Indeed. All right, Well, if you've been waiting with baited breath,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: wondering why we keep talking about holidays and trying to
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: and hoping that eventually we'll get to the topic at hand,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: we've arrived. We are talking about an event called Burning Man,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: and I actually have been to Burning Man only once.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Have you been, Shane?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I have not, and I have no plans to go.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: I don't like being outside, and I don't like being dry,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and I don't like standing in the sun in the desert.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: So I think all of those things make it for
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: a less fun time for me.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Shane likes being inside and wet.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm from Florida, like I'm just like always, like always,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: there's a slick sheen of humidity on me all the time, So.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: You would you would never entertain the notion of going No.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: I think there would have to be certain conditions. I
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: think I would have to have air conditioning in some way.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Got it, Well, that is available? Okay. Good. It's a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: weird time of year to choose to be recording and
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: publishing this episode because Burning Man is the end of
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: the summer, and we are recording this in January, yes,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and releasing it in January, so those two things do
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: not align. It probably would have made more sense to
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: try and release this episode closer to Burning Man, but
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: we do whatever we want here, So that's what's happening.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: That's true, And as we will discuss later, the publication
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: of this does very closely align with when tickets will
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: go on sale for the event, So maybe they would
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: consider this promotional. I don't know. I think once you
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: hear this, you can decide for yourself. We're not advocating anything. Sure.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Part of the reason that we talked about this is,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: first of all, it's a pretty interesting, unique event. There
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: are a few things that are quite like it that
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: you can go and experience, and also Burning Man happens
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: to be very near where I live, and every August,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: our airports, roads, grocery stores, and at the end of
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the week car washes are just completely inundated with tens
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: of thousands of people coming from all over the world
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  Speaker 1: to attend this week long experience outside of the law.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Technically not outside of the law, there are actually a
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: lot of police there, but there are things about it
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: that make it feel like it's outside of the law
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and definitely outside of cultural norms and expectations. And a hot,
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: shadeless plaia of the Black Rock desert.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're going to unpack the history and purpose
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: of Burning Man, things to know about attending Burning Man,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: share some wild stories people have shared from their experiences
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: at Burning Man, and leave with a note of caution
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: from arguments people have made against this annual tradition.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, so that's our topic, d jore, I feel like
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I miss some preamble stuff. Is there anything that I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: forgot that we need to say before we get into
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: the full discussion here?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: No, I think we're I think we're ready to dive in.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, lot, there's a lot to talk about with respect
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: to Burning Man. So there is a non zero chance
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a multi part topic where
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: we maybe cover this over two or maybe even three.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Three seems unlikely, probably two two episodes, But it's also
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: possible we will just burn through it really quickly and
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: be finished in a reasonable amount of time. But the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: way that I said that sentence hints that that's not
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: going to be the case, and so we shall see.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I guess all right, I think then we're ready to
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: go ahead and dive in. Yeah, yeah, let's do it.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and start with just a background here,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: understanding what the topic we're discussing even is. If you've
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: never heard of Burning Man, or perhaps you've heard of
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Burning Man but you don't really know what it is.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Of course, many people who are listening have heard of
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: burning Man and know what it is, or have even
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: been there. But in case you're not in that group
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: of people, this is obviously a pretty tiny chunk of
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the population we'll be talking about. Burning Man is described briefly,
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  Speaker 1: as we describe briefly in the end, is an event
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: in the Black Rock Desert in northern Nevada and the
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: United States. It begins on the last Sunday in August
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  Speaker 1: and runs until the first Monday in September, spending a
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: total of nine days.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, it is sometimes called a festival, but you would
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: not really get the experience that you might be expecting
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: if you're attending thinking you might be going to a festival.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: The Reno Gazette journal Aptlete described as a countercultural arts event, which,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: from what I've seen in kind of like some of
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: the descriptions and stuff like that, feels pretty accurate. When
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I hear the word festival, I assume lots of music,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: like organized music, planned music, like like certain acts and
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: stuff like that, not like, yeah, impromptu music groups and
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: sessions and stuff like that. I would imagine here's a stage,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: you go, you watch these bands. That's not really what's
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: happening here.
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  Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, there is music, but you may not know
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: when and where that music's quite to take place, and
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: it's kind of always also going on, Yeah, you stumble
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: upon it. Yeah, Like sometimes there's periods of time where
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: music isn't happening. Sometimes multiple things are happening at the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: same time. It covers a gigantic geographic area, so they
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: don't really interfere with each other We'll get to all
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: of that, but let's start to talk about sort of
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: where this comes from, how it began. Most sources cite
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: the original founders, Larry Harvey and Jerry James, and their
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: account of the beginning of Burning Man. However, I found
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a couple other sources that cited some additional history that
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: predated their activities and some of though at least one
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: of those cited a book about Burning Man indicating a
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: different story which I did not read. But the act
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: of like having a ceremonial annual bonfire where people gather
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: around it had been going on for like a decade
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: or so prior to Burning Man existing. Sure.
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  Speaker 2: Now, the reference of the book that we didn't get,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: we didn't verify, but this reference suggested that a sculptor
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: named Mary Graberger and her friend Janet Lore had started
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: ho doing Solstice bonfire gatherings on Baker Beach in San Francisco,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: California sometime in the early eighties. Janet Laura's boyfriend Larry
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Harvey attended these celebrations, and in nineteen eighty six, after
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: the celebrations had essentially discontinued, he called up his friend
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Jerry and said, let's burn a man.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, And I also saw in one other source that
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: again like this had been going on. But what Mary
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: brought to the ceremonials is she would to make these
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: sculptures and then burn them at these things. And that
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: was kind of a unique twist on what they had
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: been doing. And that what had happened is Janet and
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: Larry had broken up and he was sort of despondent,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: and so because the bonfires weren't happening and he was
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: in kind of a funk, he was like, let's go
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: burn the thing on a beach. Sure, and that maybe
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: is is maybe how this started. That there are multiple
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: accounts from sources that are maybe someone unreliable. This is
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: now like forty years old, so it's possible that some
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: things have sort of gotten changed over time. But anyway,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: so he calls up and says, let's burn a man.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: After clarifying that he wasn't suggesting homicide or some other
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: weird macab ritual. Larry and Jerry gathered some scrap wood
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and they built an eight foot tall effigy of a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: man and apparently a small wooden dog as well. Sure.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: They brought their effigy to Baker Park in San Francisco
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: on June twenty second, nineteen eighty six, doused it in
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: gasoline and then set it a blaze on the beach.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Kind of like, how we're going to set the momentum
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: of our podcast ablaze by putting an ad right in
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the middle of it.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. So yeah, they a few dozen people
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: started to gather at the point where they're at the beach.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: They have erected this eight foot wooden man. He's got
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: sort of a triangular head and sort of like a
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: skeletal wooden body just sort of looks humanoid vaguely, but
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: is made of wood. Sure, a few dozen people start
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: to gather. They watch the man burn. They estimate there's
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: around thirty five people there. Some nearby pedestrian even brought
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: out a guitar and started playing music and singing as
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: they watched it burn. They sort of marveled at how
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: bright it was and how unique of an event it
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: was that sort of brought these strangers together to just
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: watch a giant statue of a man burn and kind
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: of thought, Hey, maybe we'll do this again next year. Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: The following year they started building a man. A few
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: weeks before, repeated the burning and this time the man
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: was fifteen feet tall. They went out to their unpermitted
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: arson spot, which is really important to note because that
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: is very illegal what they were doing, and once again
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: set the effigy ablaze, this time attracting an impressive eighty people.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I gotta say, eighty people might not sound
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: like a lot to you, but as a musician, if
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: eighty people showed up to my show, I'd be pretty stoked.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Also more than doubled. So yeah, their population, Like if
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: you had thirty five and then you had eighty, you
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: would very much feel the difference. And that changed the
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: volume of people. Yes, and so it's gonna be a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot more people you don't know
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: in that group anymore. Yeah, exactly, all right. So that
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: was nineteen eighty seven. In nineteen eighty eight, Larry started
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: calling the effigy the burning Man, So that was the
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: first time that name was actually used. It was just
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: in the third year. This time they actually really committed
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: to the bit. Larry and Jerry and I think some
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: other people they recruited to help. They made t shirts,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: passed out flyers, and actually tried to promote the event.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: They were trying to get people to attend, and they succeeded.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: It resulted in about two hundred people attending the event,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: and this time attracting the attention of the police as well.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that an event that
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: more than doubles its attendance every year is probably going
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: to be on their radar, you know, like.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, specifically the one that like it's not permitted, they're
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: not in a space that's designated for gathering, and they're
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: burning a giant piece, like a giant structure, like the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: police are going to show up.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So that brings us to nineteen eighty nine.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty nine, the man, the Burning Man, is
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: now forty feet tall and some a morphous group of
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: people calling themselves the Cacophony Society started attending, bringing their
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: numbers up to about three hundred people and again frustrating
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: the police, which is fine.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so another fifty percent increase in their attendance.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Now realizing at this point we haven't really described the
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: man very much. I mentioned he had sort of a
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: triangular head. It's actually an inverted triangle, so it's like
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: open to the top and is pointing near the bottom
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: where the chin might be if you will. Yeah, it
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: doesn't have a face really, it just has like a
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: head and arms and legs and a torso it's made
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: entirely out of wood except nails and screws and now
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and now for the last I don't know, twenty or
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: so years, it has also been lined with like neon
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: lights and stuff. Every year is a little different, but
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: generally it looks like this. So we're trying to describe
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: a version of it. And as I said, it's got
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: sort of a an inverted triangular head, but it's three dimensional,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: so it's almost more like an inverted triangular an inverted
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: pyramid kind of yeah, almost like a like a basket.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like kind of shaped like a basket a
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: little bit, but with corners, so like it's got like
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: a little bit of that and it's you know, depending
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: on how it's structured all that. It kind of looks
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: like when artists, like cartoonists are drawing the like the
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: structure and the shape of a body before they add
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: the details to it, where it's got kind of like
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: the lines that go through and then kind of like
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the lines that go across to kind of give it depth.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And structure and all that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: It looks like that, Like it looks like a big
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: wooden skeleton almost, but with like a little bit more
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: of the lines that like like a sketch artist might
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: use to sketch out like body movement.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: I like that. That's a good description. Yeah, it's like
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the because like when you're drawing, you might have the
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: stick figure first, and then you draw sort of like
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: circles and lines around the stick figure to start to
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: make it like have the sort of mass of a body.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And that is exactly it. Like they have what looks
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: like the stick figure made out of sticks because it's one,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: and then they sort of build a cage like structure
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: around the sticks to get it sort of depth. So
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: then it has like an actual sort of expanded torso,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: but it almost looks kind of skeletal because it's wrapped
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: around in like long bands. Yeah, if you will, So
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: it kind of looks like it has ribs, but I
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: mean it doesn't. It only has a humanoid shape. It
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: doesn't really look like a human and it doesn't have
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: hands or feet. It just looks like a stick figure
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that's three dimensional.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and in this particular picture too that you've got.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: It's on a platform, yeah, which we'll talk about because
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that's gonna play a role in the size of this
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: thing in a little bit. Yes, but it's it's up
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: on a platform. It's definitely like it looks like if
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: you showed up at this place, it would be the
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: center of attention for sure.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely, and particularly given the size, like thirty
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: feet is really tall, Like that's that's a big and
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: then forty feet where I got up to, like that's
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: a very that's a very large structure.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: That's really big for like an event that's in its infancy. Right,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: this is like the requirements to like transport it there
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: to set it up, I imagine would be a little
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: bit like hectic two for something that is that tall.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Forty feet sounds like it's pretty tall, get ready, y'all?
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: True? At this point, I think they were like building
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it in pieces and then assembling it at the site,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: so they're like here's the right leg and here's the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: left leg and all that. Yeah, and then they would
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: put the thing together. But as I said, they started
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: adding some like lights to it and everything. But anyway,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: so that's that's the structure. If you hadn't seen what
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: it looks like, that's more or less what it looks like.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: You'll often see it represented in on like decals and
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: stuff as sort of almost like an X with a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: little tri inverted triangular head, except where the X doesn't
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: meet in the middle, So it's like if you were
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to draw an X and then just cross out just
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the very middle part and then connect it anyway. That's yeah,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: it's like, okay, let's get back to the timeline then,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: so we're at the nineties now. The organizers learned that
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: California was no longer going to tolerate burning giant wooden
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: statues on the beach, particularly given the states tendency to
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: catch fire at the slightest provocation. So in September nineteen
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: ninety three, hundred and fifty people made long trek out
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to the vast and largely empty Black Rock Desert, northern Nevada.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: We'll come back to Blackrock Desert a moment, but this
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: is where the quote unquote camp site would eventually gain
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the name Blackrock City. If you ever see a bumper
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: sticker that just says BRC, that's probably what it's in
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: reference to depending on where you're at in the world,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: and but BRC is a very common sticker that means
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: that refers to Black Rock City at this point. Their
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: multi day event climax at the end with the ritual
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: burning of the Man on Sunday, So it's there there
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: for several days. On Sunday they burn the Man. So
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: they're at three hundred and fifty people, as I said here,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: and they're now driving many, many hours, like from San Francisco,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: which is where they were originally, that would be at
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: least an eight hour drive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Also, if this episode is not titled Burn the Man,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Save the Empire, I don't know what we're doing. Okay, sure, sure,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: I love it. Okay, So let's talk August nineteen ninety one.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Every time nineteen ninety one comes up, I like to
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: remind everybody that's the year that never Mind came out
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: by Nirvada and really just change the world of music
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: for many years to come. So that's kind of like
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: the era that we're in, right. Neon is still around,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Guns n' Roses is kind of disappearing a little bit.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: They're really everybody's like, oh, we don't really like hairspray
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: in our rock and roll anymore.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: We're gonna get rid of that.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Like things are changing right now. In August of nineteen
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: ninety one, despite an oppressive heat and smaller attendance of
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: only two hundred and fifty people, this year Burning Man
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: saw some of the first innovations that would come to
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: define burning the Burning Man experience. Art cars and artistic
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: performers like fire dancers in this instance would start showing
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: up and it start to get it started to get
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: a little bit more to be more of like that
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: counterculture art collective piece that this is kind of like
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the beginning of that element.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they had cars. It kind of is what
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: it sounds like. These are vehicles sort of. I mean
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: they are vehicles. They're elaborately designed to look particularly eye catching,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: not usually by looking like cars. So for example, some
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: people have mounted boats on the chassis of a car
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and hit the wheels, so it more or less appears
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that as they're driving on the plie, it sort of
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: looks like a boat is sailing on land. Yeah, a
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: lot of time, the car part of it is basically unrecognizable,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: like you'll have a steering device and wheels, but and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: an engine of some sort, but it is more or
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: less it looks like a giant moving art structure. There
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: are quite a few of them that spew fire. So
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: I saw one, for example, that had a giant, giant
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: metal octopus mounted to the chasse. It was actually sitting
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: on top of a largely car shaped structure that as
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: it moved, it had gears and polleys that would pull
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the tentacles of the octopus and then flames would shoot
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: out of the tentacles. Hell yeah, so that's pretty cool.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: That's an example of an art car.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: There's a couple two that you included that were like
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: some really interesting photos. There's one that's a rhino where
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: it's like blowing fire out of it horn, which looks
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: like it looks a little bit mad, MAXI, Yeah, it does.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: It looks like these things are designed to carry desert dust.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Like it looks like that's like they have that a
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: little bit of a vibe. There's another one too that
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: looks like an old Cadillac, like something that would be
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: in like Greece, but it's like the top half of
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: the car is mounted to what looks like it could
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: have been like a backco or a bulldozer or something
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: some type of construction equipment with tread Yeah. Yeah, it's
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: definitely mounted on top of like the arms or like
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: the lift of this thing with treads, which is really
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: bizarre looking.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: And it looks like it's a good ten feet off
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the ground or so where the part where people sit
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: in it is like elevated quite high. Yeah, for sure.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: How you get up there, you probably need a ladder. Anyway,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: those are examples. There's tons of art cars, but nineteen
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: ninety one was the first time that that was introduced.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Also at this point, I mean this is the second
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: year there. And to do this event, they had to
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: coordinate with a Bureau of Land Management also called the BLM,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: and they require permits for the event, and they conducted
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: an environmental impact report after the event and wrote, quote
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: after the event was over, within a week of the inspection,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: no trace of the ceremony or the camp site can
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: be found end quote. And Bernie Man was very proud
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: of this. So they posted this on their website, the
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: report they got from BLM.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what Woodstock would have loved, right, like shoot
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Stock would have loved to have that report. They did
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: not get that report No, they did not, Like Woodstock
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: was like the ads of festivals.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: We're back. We're just comparing Berni Man and Woodstock, I
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: guess anyway.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Easy comparison, not at all the same.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Also berniing Man not a festival and Woodstock
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: was definitely a festival. Yeah, and ended up having tons
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: of advertising. But yeah, started with similar sort of hippie
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: counterculture ideas. I think.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just what a different direction. Yeah, and that direction
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: is money.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Speaking of which, so in nineteen ninety two,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the infrastructure around the event began to develop. In Earnest.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: They would establish rangers to help rescue campers who got
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: lost in the desert because people kind of just go
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: wander off to see what there was to see, I guess,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: and the seasoned, experienced people who had been out there
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: before they sort of knew to look for and help
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and find people who were wandering away who maybe got lost.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: They would control the perimeter to try and ensure safety.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: They were totally volunteers. At this point. I think they
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: had started. I actually think in maybe nineteen ninety or
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: ninety two somewhere they had started doing themes for these
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Burning Mans. We'll talk about the themes a little bit later,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: But it started with someone who dressed up. They basically
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: decked out their tent in Christmas stuff, dressed in a
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Santa costume and wore it all day every day in
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: like blistering one hundred degree We there and played Christmas
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: music twenty four to seven and were so obnoxious that
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: people like moved their camps away from it because they
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: hated it. Yeah, but the person was like, that was
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: kind of the point, is They're like, it was to
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: highlight consumerism and capitalism and the annoyingness of that, and
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: so that sort of inspired themed camps and themed burning
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: men events in the future.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: So thinking about the people that like wander off in
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: the desert, like, what percent do you think is related
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: to just like I'm curious what's out there, versus like
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: maybe they were on some substances.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I actually guess it's close to fifty to fifty. Yeah,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: we'll get to that a little bit later, but probably
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I would guess. I don't know for sure, but I
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: would guess fifty fifty yeah, yeah, Okay, all right.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: So this is also like the talking about the time
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: where we've got the Rangers that are coming out you've
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: got Santa Claus out there. And this is also when
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: this started to officially become an art event. There were
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: art classes such as pottery making, concerts, cocktail parties, and
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: of course building and burning The Man in nineteen ninety
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: two had the largest attendance to date with six hundred people.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it started with their modest thirty five people.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Then they were getting up to, you know, one hundred people,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: two hundred people. Now they have to six hundred people.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: They're liked more than doubled since the last one. Yeah,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: all right. In ninety three mark several important innovations to
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the Burning Man event that had organizers refer to this
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: as the first time Burning Man sort of looked like
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: what Burning Man is today. This year they in ninety three,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: they finally crossed one thousand attendees. This is the year
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: they created what's called the Center Camp. Like before, there
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was not really as much structure to the camp site
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: set up. You kind of could be set up sort
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: of anywhere. This year they sort of started to arrange
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the camp in a semi circular arc, and the center
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: of that was called Center Camp. That was sort of
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: a central agora, if you will, and then there was
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: this man standing larger than life, still about forty feet tall,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: to the east of the encampment a good way, so
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: there was no risk of fire from the burn. Sure.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Now at this burning, a large group of drag queens
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: from California showed up wearing the most decked out, ostentatious,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: artistically styled outfits you can imagine. And as one organizer
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: put it, quote, the conversation ceased and something something just clicked.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: It all fits so perfectly together. This purely gratuitous display
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: of ostentation became the modus operandi of the entire community
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: end quote. So essentially, like you could thank drag queens
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: for current status of burning man and like, and also
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: you should thank drag queens for lots of things, because
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: they're wonderful.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: But like this is like, it's it's you.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: If anybody is surprised that like drag queens had an
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: influence on this really kind of cool counterculture event, if
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: you're surprised, then you're not paying attention. I am not
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: at all surprised that it was drag queens that made
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: this happen.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so it was like that just inspired
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: this idea of like we should start. We should wear
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: like big outfits, we should do you know, big displays
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: of sort of ostentation and like that can be a
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: part of this thing. I mean, you don't have to,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: but like people are free to do so if they want.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: And so they were very much inspired by that, and
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: they were like, they said it was it would be
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: enough to put and they made I forget it was
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: some rare relevant like model or something at the time,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: to shame I even recognize the name, that's how popular
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: of a person it was. The point being that their garb,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the dress that they chose was just such an elaborate
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: display of like art and creativity that they're like, this
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: needs to be a part of what we do here. Yeah, one, okay.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: So ninety four they saw the continued evolution of extravagant
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: artwork that populate the area around the encampment, largely opposite
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the tents, but not exclusively. So we have these very
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: large art structures that are either hauled out there or
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: created out there. They also started now hosting several events
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: at all times, so you could go to kind of anything.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: It's at any point in ninety four, someone brought an
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: antenna and was able to make this feeble internet connection
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to add pictures of the ceremony to the website as
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: the ceremony was going on, albeit slowly in with slow resolution.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: So that was definitely it felt like like whoa, the
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: future is here. We have internet, dude. Yeah, I just.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Think of like I think the the internet in nineteen
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: ninety four, and how long it would have taken to
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: upload photos.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, they said it was like they said
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: it was like two or two plus hours per photo.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: So you'd like start the process and be like come
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: back and check on it after dinner. So ninety four
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: they had they're now up to two thousand people, so
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: their population doubled again from one thousand to two thousand.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: So it's it's growing rapidly.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is just like one of those
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: things where it's an exponential growth, right, and like there's
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: and I think when you start thinking about this, I
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: don't think that people realize like how many, Like two
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: thousand people does not sound like a lot in terms
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: of like larger festivals, but when you're an organizer, you
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: are talking about the safety and well being of two
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: thousand people, You are talking about lots of other things.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: That come up into organizing events for two people. You
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: are talking about like lots of things like the money
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that comes in from people registering for or like purchasing
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: tickets or or like any sort of like it's a
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: small economy. Yeah, it is when you really think about it,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: like it becomes this kind of thing where you as
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: an organizer have to manage so many things that you
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: don't think about. Like we used to put punk shows
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: on in Daytona, and like so we used to organize
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: these shows. You have to coordinate when the acts are
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: going to get there. You have to coordinate the site
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: to make sure you're allowed to be there, make sure
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: that there are waste receptacles you have to worry about,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: like the restrooms. You have to worry about, making sure
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: people have resources. Like there's like it's it's it's an undertaking.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: People don't realize how intense organizing stuff like this can
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: really be. Even for like a couple hundred people. Two
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: thousand people is like a certain threshold that just is
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: like it's just a higher level of difficulty.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: There's a lot and stuff that you you know is important,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: but you don't necessarily think about when you're trying to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: put it together. Like for example, as you said, like restrooms,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: you're out in the desert, So what are they going
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: to do? Bring in tons and tons and tons of
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: porta potties. That's what they're gonna do, right, Because like
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: people are going to be there for a week and
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: they are going to be using the bathroom all week.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: And people might have medical events, so they have to
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: start planning for that. People might have mechanical event, so
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you have to start planning for that, like a car
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: breaks down or loses the tire, Like what do you do.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot that goes into the creation and
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: maintaining of this event.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So in nineteen tinty four, we've got two thousand people.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety five, the attendance doubles again to four
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: thousand people, making it the largest settlement temporarily in Pershing County,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Nevada at this time, and earning it the title black
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: Rock City. So nineteen ninety five shows up at black
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Rock City, which is also a very cool name for
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: like a band or an album, Like that's just like
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: a cool it just sounds cool. There was a large
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: wind and rainstorm on the Saturday of the event, that
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: resulted in a gigantic mud puddle. So there are pictures
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: of this event with hundreds of naked muddy people that
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: often get circulated as representative of burning Man, which I
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: think that ninety four, ninety five, ninety six, I think
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: in that time, like mud people was just like a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: real thing. Like that was also Woodstock ninety four, Like
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Woodstock ninety four was like known for being mud people.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Like nine inch Nails playing at Woodstock ninety four, they
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: are also mud people because it had rained during the event.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: So I think mud people was just the thing at
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: that time. And also I think that there's a Goosebumps
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: book about mud people too. It's like it's I think
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: it's called you Can't Scare Me, and it's like about
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: mud people.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds right to me. Yeah, And I think
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: it was largely just like the fact that they were
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: trying to keep their clothes clean, that some people just
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: elected to go naked and they're like what are they
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: going to do? Like we're out in the middle of nowhere. Ye,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Like it's like we're just trying to get by in
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: this crazy situation we're in. And so there was no
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: nothing that indicated this is when the sort of explicit
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: nudity started. But it seems like this was probably an
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: event that helped spark the idea that it's like it
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: just does and out here it doesn't matter. Like out
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: here the point is art and survival, and like nakedness
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: is kind of who cares. So it's not exactly representative
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of Burning Man. We'll actually talk more about that a
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: little bit later. That was ninety five. The population is
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: four thousand people. In ninety six of doubles again, so
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: now up to eight thousand people. The man has grown
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: to an impressive forty eight feet tall. He's hit puberty.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: He's hit puberty. Yeah at this point he's twenty years old.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: But sure, sure, late bloomers, you know it's fine.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: So a committee is actually officially founded to manage the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Burning Man event. It had been kind of a heroic
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: feat by some volunteers for a while, and now they're like, actually,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: we need people here. So the event takes place, and
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a skeleton crew of people spends nearly a month after
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: this cleaning up the debris left behind by the attendees.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: So they're getting to a large enough crowd and they're
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: starting to have issues with some of the control around
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: people picking up after themselves that they kind of just
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: have to have a crew of people who does that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like we have no control of when
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: ads show up in our show.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're back. We just closed down nineteen ninety six
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: and the timeline of Burning Man.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so now we are in nineteen ninety seven,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: which for reference, is when the Offspring's x NA on
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the Ombre comes out in Green Day's Nimrod if you
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: like those records. This is also the beginning of the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: SKA explosion and the beginning of when we start seeing
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: a little bit of the Latin explosion in music, where
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Ricky Martin and j Lo get really popular for a
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: little while and Mark Anthony and all that.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: This is also right right around the time that I
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: think Blakewnedy two either put out Enema of the State
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: or Dude Ranch, Dude Ranch. Dude Ranch came out in
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: ninety six yep.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And so it's like right around that time where Blake
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: White two is getting popular. And then also there was
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: a year where like big band was huge, so if
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: you remember the squirrel Nut Zippers, that was also going
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: on at this time. So just to give you some perspective.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety seven.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: This is also the Jurassic Park two came out, Yeah
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: two two now in nineteen ninety seven.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: In response to traffic problems, burning Man has moved to
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: a privately owned ranch north of the usual Black Rock
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Desert in a valley called Wallapie. The landlord made several
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: last minute changes to things and generally made life difficult.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: This is the first year with a fully laid out
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: city plan with streets and a map. Several key Burning
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Man personnel resigned and they still had ten thousand people
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: in attendance at this event. But ticket sales were seized
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: by Washoe County or Washoe County. This Washo Washoe County
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: officers for some reason, and this year was a significant
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: struggle for them. So nineteen ninety seven was not the
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: year for Burning Man.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like all the ticket sales they got or from
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: sales ahead of time, anything at the gate was getting
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: seized by Washoe County officers weird for some reason. So yeah,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: this was tough. And then so this was actual and
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: not really in a desert anymore. There was actually a
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: lot of grass, which you might think sounded nice, but
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: actually caused a lot of other problems. Yeah, yeah, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: it definitely made it difficult for burning the man that
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: year did not go very well, so they were like
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: never doing that again. Nineteen ninety eight returns to the
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: black Rock Desert. They're now up to fifteen thousand attendees.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: The man is forty foot tall, but they have put
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: him on a twelve foot platform, bringing a total height
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: to fifty two feet tall. So this is a very
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: large structure. As I mentioned before, Blackrock City now has
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: streets and street signs of intersections with lot numbers and addresses.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Only eight people were on staff to manage this event.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: They were really struggling as an organization. That is why. Yeah.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean let's talking about skeleton crew. Like that
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: is for fifteen thousand people, eight people.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Is not enough.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like that is like I want everybody who's listening,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I want you to think about the Behavior Analysis Conference
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: as you go to yeah, or like any sort of
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: professional development conferences, there are dozens of staff, volunteers, organizers
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: like board members. There's dozens that are organizing that event
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: for yeah, you know, for like let's say for FABA,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: which is a larger like one of the larger state
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: conferences for about two thousand people, anywhere between like two
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: thousand and three thousand people. Yeah, dozens of people, dozens
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: of staff. We're talking eight people for fifteen thousand attendees.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: That is just an absurd number.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: That's almost two thousand people of a piece. Like each
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: person has to sort of manage two thousand people. That's
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: like the entire previous two thousand person event we were
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: talking about where they still they had like a larger crew.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: They I love a smaller crew for seven times more people. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: it's wild.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: So that brings us all the way up to nineteen
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: ninety nine, where the population has surged to twenty three
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: thousand people. The man was now forty feet tall on
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: a fourteen foot platform of hey bails, and this marks
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the first time that the man has burned on Saturday
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: instead of the usual Sunday, so people had more time
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: to pack their things and clean up after themselves before
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: returning home, which actually sounds like a pretty reasonable thing
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: to think about. Like that gives people an opportunity to
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: like pick up and like really kind of like follow
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: that edict of like leave less behind you than you brought,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: like you know that whole thing or whatever it is.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: They say, like, you know, don't leave a footprint type
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: of thing, leave no trace, leave no trace. Yeah that's
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: what that's that's what I was trying to say. Thank you, amraha,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: and so like that really gives people an opportunity to
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: really do that.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that was definitely helpful. And again there are
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: a whopping twenty three thousand people. That's quite a large
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: event at this point. And so they now move into
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the year two thousand, the event has increased again to
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: twenty five four hundred people. I think at this time
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: they were like getting more accurate numbers because every time
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: up to that they'd always rounded up to the nearest
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: tens or hundreds place. At this point in their timeline,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: everything is like to the ones place, like they have
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: an exact count. Yeah, so I rounded it on several
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: of these just for the sake of not having to
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: read that many numbers to people. But around twenty five
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: four hundred people. The proportions of the man are the
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: same in two thousand as they were in ninety nine.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: There are some freezing cold temperatures at nighttime, unpredictable windstorms
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: that blow blinding amount of dust through the camp during
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the daytime. Several what are they call these temples that
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: are these very large structures that a lot of people
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: can be in. This started in this year that as
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: far as I found, and they became these these sort
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: of ritualistic things to include at Burning Man every year,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times they have a specific function.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: They're quite large and quite elaborate. It's really impressive they're
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: able to put together what they do.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's pretty that's pretty wild. And also
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I think that that I would imagine using the term
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: temples probably evokes like the kind of like maybe like
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: the myths of like pagan like paganism and like you know,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: all that stuff that goes along with it, Like now
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: you have a burning effigy of a man and you
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: have temples, and like there are no rules, Like I
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: imagine all of that creates kind of like this mythos
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: around Burning Man that's probably not as like it's it's
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: probably not as accurate as people think it is.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: So people will report having very intense emotional, potentially religious
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: experiences for that reason like that for what is designed
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: and like they're they're these structures are very large they
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: also burn them down as well. Along with the man.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Usually there is an element of catharsism. So the next
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: year they created something called the Temple of Tears. You're
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: going to talk about that, but i'll just briefly describe that.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: One was designed to be a place where people would
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: write journal entries about people or like to experience, like grief.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: They could write something down people that they had lost
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: or whatever ment. So people would go in and they
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: would just be crying, and it was just a very
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: into it. Like if you walk in and everyone around
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: you is crying, like you kind of feel, yeah, the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: need to cry or leave immediately. And anyway, when they
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: burn that down, a lot of people report that being
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: cathartic because it's sort of like they write the note
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: and then they let doll just sort of transition, if
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: you will. Yeah.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's talk a little bit about two thousand
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: and one. Two and one is only slightly larger than
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: the year two thousand for attendance numbers. And you've got
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: the Temple of Tiers, which is the first constructed temple
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: that they like, like a formally constructed thing, like it's
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: like before they had the templates and stuff, like that
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: or the temples that were like kind of like this
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: was the one that was like formally for what you
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: just talked about, right, it was like it was like
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: for grief. It was like for this specific purpose for that,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: and you also got for that one.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: And the man is now lifted into a thirty foot
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: platform with a crane, making the whole structure seventy feet tall,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: So he's just getting taller and taller. They ordered and
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: distributed thirteen forty five foot trucks full of ice, so
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: they had ice just in case people needed it. And
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: this was the first year that they had major problems
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: with counterfeit tickets, although they believed they caught almost all
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so people are getting technologically savvy to start counterfeiting
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: tickets to this event. Tickets to the point we're getting
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: more expensive. We'll talk more about ticket prices in a
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: little bit, all right. Two thousand and two, they the
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: camp surpassed twenty eight thousand people. The man is now
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: on a forty foot platform, making the entire structure eighty
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: feet tall.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: So this brings us all the way to two thousand
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: and three. In two thousand and three, I am seventeen
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: and I'm not even thinking about burning man. Attendance reaches
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: over thirty thousand people, which is huge, but the man
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: is smaller, so things are on there's an inverse relation there,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: but on a larger platform. So the man is smaller
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: but on a larger platform. So he's about eighty feet tall. Still,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: so like eighty feet tall, and I want you all
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: to like really think about this. Eighty feet tall is
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: a huge structure to build in the middle of a
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: desert to burn.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's gigantic. For reference, a eighty foot tall building
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: will probably have seven or eight stories on it, so
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: you'd have a like that's larger than many hotels, Like
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: an eight story hotel is pretty decently sized. That's the
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: size of the structure we're talking about.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: And it's only going to get bigger, folks.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Well, it will fluctuate in size, but it will get
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: larger than that. Yeah. All right, So we have more
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: timeline to cover. Obviously, we're only up to two thousand
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and three. We're not even twenty years ago yet. We
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: want to talk about ticket prices, what to expect when
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: you're there, arguments against are some criticisms and critiques that
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: people have leveled at this event, so that's a lot
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: to cover in the remaining part of the episode. I
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: think what we'll do is end this discussion here and
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: then we can trend next time. We can come back
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: and continue picking up with our timeline, introduce a few
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: more important things that developed out of Burning Man, I
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: start getting to some of the other features of this
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: event that exist. Cool. I like it. I think that
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: sounds good. All right, Well, in that case, let's go
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: ahead and we have some things to do. We can
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: still either recommend some things, or we can save recommendations
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: for next time. We usually recommend after each one, so
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I think we'll recommend some things today and have listener
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: mail all the credits, all those sorts of things. But
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: let's first do an ad. Let's go ahead and get
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: through our credits and whatnot and sort of do our
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: final thing, and then we'll get to the recommendations at
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: the end, which is a part where we just like
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: to give some things we recommend for people to check
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: out or do or whatever thoughts we have. It's just
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: the thing and it's not about Burning Man, but it'll
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: still be interesting. Before we do that, I need to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: let you know that if you'd like to tell us
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: your thoughts or experiences at Burning Man, you can email
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: us at info at WWDWWD podcast dot com. We do
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: look forward to hearing from you. You can also just
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: like tell us hi, or correct something we said, or
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: throw heaping amounts of praise at us. We appreciate all
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: of that, and you can also support us by joining
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: us on Patreon. If you do, you'll go add free
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: content early episodes, behind the scenes content, etc. And on
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: our full length episodes, I'll read your name in the
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: list of people who have helped us make the show
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: who join us on Patreon. So big, thank you too,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Mike m Megan, Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Kiarra and Charlie. We really appreciate you so much.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: You're all the best and we love you so much.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I couldnt do this podcast without the support of my
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: skeleton crew, so running in fact checking from Shane and
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: myself are social media coordinator as Emma Wilson, and the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: person who has to wade through a crazy amount of
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: technological issues from my audio is Justin and then he
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: somehow makes a podcast out of it. So thank you.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Justin's I don't know how he does it.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: It's like it's a superpower. It's definitely like a magic trick,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: a talent beyond the ability of us mere mortals. Yes,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: all right, I think that's what I have to say
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: about those parts. I have a listener, Mayle. I was
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: thinking I might say for next time, but I'm just
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: gonna include it now. This is from listener Letitia, who
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: who wrote in when We Love Hearing from Letitia, who
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: has lots of really interesting and fun bits of conversation.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: So if you would like to be as cool as Letitia,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: you can write into us too. But she wrote, Aloha again.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I just heard about the God Debt eleven. These men
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: had acquired deafness from spinal meningitis. They helped the US
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: figure out how to get astronauts into space without the
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: extreme sickness causing the program difficulties. This reminded me of
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: the comment that one of you mentioned about how people
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: with different abilities can achieve greatness for humanity as a whole.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: I think you all discussed those who use a wheelchair
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: on Earth who don't need special equipment in space. Thank
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: you for disseminating hopeful and powerful information mahallo, So yeah,
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: thank you again for writing in Letitia. Yeah, I had
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: not heard of the god at eleven. I'm curious to
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: look into this now. But that is an awesome addition
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: to exactly what we talked about in those and our
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: episodes about disability, where we're thinking about disability not as
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: a thing that precludes participation in like human progress and
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: scientific endeavors, but actually facilitates those endeavors and can help.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Like that level of diversity increases what we know and
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: what we can accomplish. So including those people's is just
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: all the more reason to do it. Awesome. I think
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: that is all the things that we have to say,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: unless I'm missing anything I didn't mention. More of the
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: ways you can support us. Yeah, Liking it and subscribing
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: is important. To leave us a rating and a review.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: You can just leave a rating, but a review is
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: also helpful. That just helps other people find us. As
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I said, tell a friend, because that is one of
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: the best ways that podcasts spread is just by word
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: of mouth. Is getting it out there. Now, I think
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: I've said what I have to say. Is there anything
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: that I'm missing or you'd like to add before we
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: recommend some things.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: No, I think we can just get into recommendations.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: Recommendations. I'm recommending first that everybody wish Shane a happy
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: belated birthday, which is just a few days ago at
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: the time that this releases. That's my bonus recommendation. My
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: recommendation for the episode is a TV show called Pluribus
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: that is on Apple TV plus US. And I don't
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: want to give away too much of what the premise is.
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, the whole catalyst event upon which the show
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: is based starts in the first episode, like halfway through.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: You're basically on track, but I feel like it's still
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: better to go into it fairly blind. What I can
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: say is, you could you could put this in the
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: sci fi ish category. It all takes place on Earth.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: There are no aliens, there is no supernatural much of anything.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: It's just an event takes place that completely changes almost
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: every single human on Earth. Yeah, all pretty much almost
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: at once. I mean, it unfolds over a couple months,
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: but like we see, it essentially happen almost instantaneously. From
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: there you have everyone is affected by this, except for
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: a small handful of people who are not, and they
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: are scattered around the globe only some of them speak
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: any amount of English, so it's it's a it's a
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: pretty interesting idea for a show, and it is so engaging.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: It's like you just you never it's hard to look away.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: You always want to see what's gonna happen next, and
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: see how it's gonna unfold, and see how the situation
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: plays out and complex implications you might not have otherwise anticipated. Yeah,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: I loved it so much. I am super looking forward
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: to the next season. I thought the first season was fantastic.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: But that is out on Apple TV plus. It's called Pluribus.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to check that out. That sounds fun.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: You told me a little bit about it off show,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: and it sounds it sounds rad like. It sounds like
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: it's really cool.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: It's cool man beautiful. All right, I'm gonna recommend a book.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: I recommend this book called Real Self Care by Pooja Lacchman,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: doctor Pooja Lashman, and it is about like it basically
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: does what we do on the show, which is it
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: dismantles like fake things and mythbusting and then gives you
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: tools for how to actually engage in real things like
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: and so the book is equal parts kind of dismantling
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: what we understand about self care and then also giving
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: you guidance on how to engage in real self care
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: in the context in what you're operating using ACT. Oh cool,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: I was surprised to find ACT in this space, which
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: was really cool, so really powerful stuff in this And
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: so the full title is Real Self Care Crystals, cleanses,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: and bubble bats not included, and.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I thought that was really like. I went, that's good.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: I like this.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: So I immediately and I picked it up off on
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: a whim. I was like, I study self care, I
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: like self care. I'm going to read this. It was
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: a quick and easy read, just for everybody who's going
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: to pick it up. If you are going to pick
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: it up. It is centered around women's self care in
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: the United States, so it does unpack that quite a bit.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: And it does have a whole chapter on understanding systemic
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: issues that contribute to burnout, which I thought was really
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: powerful too. So it's one of the best like science
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: books I've read because it is very practical and it
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: is like based in real contextual a science, which is cool.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Wow, you said all of the words that would make
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: me want to buy this and probably recommend it to
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: other people. Yeah, that sounds so good.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: I'm outing it to my list of like I'm adding
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: it to my list of like required readings for superviss
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: now wow, because it's like it's it's that good. Yeah,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Like it's like it's super easy to read, and it's
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: and it's funny, and it's got enough but it's got
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: like enough really good practical stuff in it that you're like, okay,
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Like the practical stuff is like one of the chapters
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: is like fifty pages long, because it's just like here's
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: all the things that you should be able to do,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: here's how you do it, Here's what you need to know.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Like it's really cool to unpack. So wow, okay, very cool.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Real Self Care by poojil Ashman, Doctor Poojelacshman. Yeah, I
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: think the even just saying like it has the no
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: crystals included. Yeah, it's pretty fantastic. That's awesome. I've not
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: heard of this, so I'm excited to check it out.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's very very new, like it's i think
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the last couple of years it came out like you
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: started writing it during the pandemic and then like it
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: came out I think twenty twenty three. Okay, so it's
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: like a it's a newer release.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, most people listening to this podcast will recognize ACT.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: But in case that is a word you don't understand
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: in this context, it stands for acceptance and commitment therapy
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: or acceptance and commitment training is It's a style of
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: therapy delivery that is rooted in the philosophy of behaviorism.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Essentially is been very successfully applied in many settings around
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: the world. But a lot of people will see it
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: and want to pronounce it ACT because it's all capitalized
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: and there is a college prep test called ACT that
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: this is not that. Yeah, it's pronounced ACT as a
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: single word. Yeah, anyway, that's what it is. In case
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: that was unclear to anybody.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect, thank you.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Okay. So that's Pluribus the TV Show and Apple TV
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Plus and Real Self Care by Doctor Poojelacshman. I think
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: that's going to close out this episode. We're going to
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: be back next time for a part too, to talk
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: even more about the history of Burning Man and several
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: other ins and outs of that. This experience that you
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: could attend this countercultural arts event. Yeah, as it has
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: been described, So I think that's what we have to
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: say about that for now. Ready to close this one out? Yeah,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: let's do it all right, Thank you all for listening.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: To see you next week. This is Abraham and this
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: is Shane. We're out. So yeah, you've been listening to
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Why We Do What We Do.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day