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Types of Addiction Treatment — What Families Should Know · Recovering Out Loud

0:01
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
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Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
0:08
addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
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If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
0:13
alcohol, please reach out for help.
0:16
Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
0:20
Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com.
0:26
You are no longer alone. Thanks so much, Melanie for
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coming on. I appreciate you.
0:49
So you are currently in recovery and you're also you work at
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Canadian Addiction Treatment Centres, CATC.
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Do you want to describe a little bit about what you do 1st and
1:01
maybe how you got into that rule?
1:04
Sure. Yeah, absolutely.
1:06
So like you said, I'm in recovery myself.
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I used opioids as a teenager, ended up getting addicted to
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Oxycontin in kind of the height of the opioid epidemic in the
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early 2000s, which was not a great time, not a great time,
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Wouldn't recommend it. So I ended up because of the of
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my experiences with addiction and homelessness and, and a
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number of other things, I decided to become a social
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worker and I actually had really no intention of working
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specifically in addictions. I wanted to work with youth, I
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wanted to work with youth who had experienced abuse or
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homelessness and addiction kind of comes along with that, but
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that was never really my actual intended focus.
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I ended up taking a job at CATC in their virtual outpatient
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program at the beginning of the pandemic, mostly just because I
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was looking for something extra to do on the side and ended up
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really, really liking it. And I found that it was just
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kind of a niche that worked well for me.
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I was able to use my experience to be able to help other people,
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and it was really great. And apparently they thought I
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was doing pretty well too, because they've ended up
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promoting me into the position of director of clinical
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programs. And now I oversee all of the
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clinical services that are delivered through our three
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inpatient facilities and our Warden virtual outpatient
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program. Awesome, so that's Trafalgar is
2:27
one of them 1000 islands and I always forget the third one.
2:31
Greenstone. Greenstone.
2:32
Where's Greenstone? Cimbala Muskoka.
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Muskoka OK, Awesome. What was that like working
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through the pandemic in in addiction?
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I mean, that was not a fun time for a lot of us.
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I was somehow managed to stay sober through that.
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I still don't really know how I how I did it, but what was that
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like for you? Yeah, it was a wild time for
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sure, especially because in his infinite wisdom, the premier of
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Ontario decided that beer stores and liquor stores were an
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essential service. So a lot of people had an awful
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lot of time to go out and and get themselves into trouble.
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So it was, it was really interesting, especially making
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the switch to doing like virtual therapy because before then I
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had always worked in person. I had never done virtual
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programming before. So it was really interesting and
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we found even though there were lots of challenges to IT, people
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had a much harder time staying sober in a virtual program than
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they would when they were in an abstinence based inpatient
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program for very obvious reasons.
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But we also found that it made the services a lot more
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accessible and people who otherwise wouldn't come to
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treatment ended up getting like treatment from us.
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So it was really rewarding in that way too.
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But yeah, it was wild. It was a wild time.
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How do you discern between whether somebody would benefit
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from virtual versus inpatient? Like what's how do you, what are
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the kind of metrics or things that you look at?
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Well, the the very first thing is that if a person requires
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detox, they can't come to a virtual program or at the very
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least they're going to have to do their own separate detox
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first. You can't be detoxing while
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you're in a virtual program. And really the only other like
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real requirement is that you have to be able to stay sober on
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your own during groups because you can't show up like
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intoxicated to any of your, your individual sessions or your
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group sessions. So really like that's, that's
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kind of it. Those are the big determining
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factors. If you need to detox, you're
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going to have to go somewhere in patient or to a hospital.
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You can't detox on your own in your house or you shouldn't.
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Anyways, it's ill advised. And, and if you can stay sober,
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then you're, you can be a good fit for virtual treatment.
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Also things like just having a safe place to live, you know,
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all of that kind of stuff and the available technology.
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But really like, that's it. Do you find that a lot of people
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sort of make the connection that may be outpatient, like I'll try
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outpatient because I'm not ready to commit to.
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I've been to three rehabs and let me tell you, like I did not
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have a good experience. Looking back now, of course it
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was something I needed in my life, but while I was there, it
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was tough, right? It was hard.
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I needed it. It saved my life.
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I guess my question is, do you find that people start with
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outpatient and ever sort of no, I I need to be in in treatment
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and that's the path for me. Do you find that happens?
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It does happen sometimes. There's a lot of people who will
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call in like to our admissions line and they really don't want
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to come to inpatient because really people don't generally.
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It's not fun. It's not a vacation, you're away
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from your family. You have to commit to it.
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It costs a lot of money. And so a lot of times people
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really don't want to come to inpatient.
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That's their last resort. So when they hear that we have a
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virtual outpatient programs, they're like, yeah, sign me up
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for that, of course. And then we have to determine
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whether or not they're a good fit for it or if they really do
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need to go to inpatient. So yeah, like that is honestly
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the the default. A lot of the times people don't
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want to commit to inpatient, but it's really what they need.
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So our our admissions team does a really good job of being able
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to talk people through that and, and help them to understand the
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benefits of inpatient treatment. Yeah, yeah.
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And I mean, as I'm sure you know, and I, I was the master of
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excuses myself, but I have a job, I have kids, right?
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All these things. And it's like, yeah.
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But you know, sometimes you wish you'd, you could just show them
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like you wouldn't have any of that.
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You're, you know, your sobriety has to come first in my
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experience, or I can't be a husband, I can't be a dad,
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right? But it's, it's very difficult in
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my experience to make that connection, especially with new
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people that are just coming in. I mean, I was stubborn myself,
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right? So it's, it's difficult to show
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somebody their future. But I mean, maybe it's not
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always the case, right? What, what are you finding
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people are coming in with a lot now in terms of class of drugs.
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Are you seeing a lot of gambling addiction now with the the
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newest, you know, the legalization of, of sports
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betting in in Ontario? What are you seeing?
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Yeah, we see like a real diversity of the things that
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people are coming in with, but we are definitely seeing a lot
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more complexities. Rarely are we having people
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coming in with straightforward like, you know, I, I drink too
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much. Often there's some sort of
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comorbid mental health issue going on as well.
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Or we are seeing, as you were saying with the gambling, a lot
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more behavioral addictions as well.
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So it's not just I came in because I drink too much.
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It's it came in because I drink too much and then I started
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doing some cocaine with it and then I was having a really good
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time doing that. So now I'm getting into
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gambling. So like we are seeing a lot more
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complexities like that. And yeah, gambling's definitely
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on an upswing as well. And just as things become more
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normalized to talk about, we, we see a lot more of them too.
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Sex and love addiction is something that's also something
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we're really seeing a lot more of now, and particularly among
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people who also use like stimulants and stuff as well.
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Yeah, there's a lot of heightened sexual desires with,
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with, with the stimulants. Yeah, I, I, I definitely, you
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know, I've heard about a lot about that in the recovery
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community. I talked to a lot of new, you
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know, addicts and Alcoholics that are trying to make the, the
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decision to better, you know, to, to stop doing what they're
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doing and, and take a different approach to the way they manage
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their feelings and the way they manage, you know, their lives
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really. And that, that comes up a lot,
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right? I, I hear that a lot.
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So. Yeah, often people don't even
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recognize that that's something that's a problem for them until
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they come in and start talking about it.
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It's something I'll credit our team with a lot at CATC.
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Is that like just the, the non judgement that they're able to
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have for clients really kind of opens that up.
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Like we're not here just to talk about your substance abuse
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problem. We can talk about all of the
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problems that are going on and often things like sex addiction
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will surface within those conversations.
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We're rarely having people come in saying I'm struggling with
9:00
sex. Instead, they'll come in with
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the substance abuse issue and then end up kind of realizing
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that there's something else going on here as well, and
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there's an opportunity to address it.
9:10
Yeah. Sort of this peeling back the
9:13
layers of the onion, right? Exactly.
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Yeah, it's certainly I'm still doing that, you know, but that
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was a big part of of rehab was able to my treatment center
9:21
experience was able to to do that along with arm me with the
9:25
tools to deal with life on life's terms.
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Right. In your opinion, what do you
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think the the people that relapse and then the people that
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go on to to put together some, you know, solid long term
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sobriety? What do you think the two
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differences are with the people that like, why?
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Why, in your opinion, do people relapse and why do they what
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what allows them to put together that long term sobriety?
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Yeah, I mean, there's, there's lots of different factors.
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Some of it is just readiness. A lot of times people are kind
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of pushed to come into treatment when maybe they're not quite
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ready yet. And that's why we often see
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people coming for multiple stays.
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Maybe the first time they were coming in because of some
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external factor, you know, my wife or my husband was going to
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divorce me if I didn't do something.
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So I'm just here to appease them.
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And, and obviously there's a lot more risk of relapse when a
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person is not fully committed to it.
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Another thing that I would say is, is really important is like
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family support, family and friends, because addiction is
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really a family issue. It's a, it's a whole issue that
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the entire family has to deal with because there's reasons
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that a person became addicted to something.
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And so we have to address kind of that root cause.
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So if the family's also not getting their own help, they're
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really not able to support their loved ones, they return home.
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So it's it's really important that everyone in the family is
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getting help in order to set that person for long term
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success. Yeah, one of the hardest things
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that my mother and my wife really had to come to was in the
10:56
beginning, at least now they're they're accepted, is that, you
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know, they played a role. They didn't cause it, they can't
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cure it and they can't control it, right.
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But they, there was a rule in the family dynamic that hey,
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maybe you need to get some, some of your own recovery too, your
11:14
own support too. That was, that was a hard my, my
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therapist always says she's in recovery as well.
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She always says that her biggest struggle is getting the family
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members to buy in and do their own healing, their own recovery
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right. Yeah, absolutely.
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And often we see that among lots of family members too.
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Like I come from a whole family of Alcoholics.
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And unfortunately my my parents and my sister are not in
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recovery. And so I don't have much of a
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relationship with them now because they really don't
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understand why I'm not engaging in in that stuff anymore.
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So it is really unfortunate when people don't recognize that they
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played a role or that they may even be struggling with an
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addiction themselves. How do you deal with that?
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That's I feel like a lot of people have to deal like how do
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you deal with a loved one in addiction in your life?
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I mean, it's it's sad and I've definitely breathed the
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relationship with my mother in particular because it's
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something that I really wanted was to have a good relationship
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with her. But it's just not something
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that's achievable right now. And so, yeah, if I've breathed
12:14
that relationship a lot and of course did my own therapy as
12:18
well. So that's something that you
12:20
have to come to an understanding that some people are just not
12:23
willing to recover, and it's not within my control to change
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that. I'm awesome.
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What would you say is maybe what's the most challenging part
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of your role, your job, and what is your favorite part about it?
12:38
That's a great question. I'd say the most challenging
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part of my job is probably really boring.
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I, I do a lot of like the policy level work.
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So I don't, I don't get to spend a whole lot of time with the
12:52
actual clients anymore. Instead, I'm on the back end
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reviewing all of the policy and, and like, it's a really
12:58
important job. And I think that it's one that I
13:00
am probably uniquely well suited to do because I did work
13:04
frontline for so long as well. And I have seen the devastating
13:08
impacts of poor policy, like in in particular, I used to be a
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shelter worker and as a result of one of our policies following
13:17
one of our policies, somebody died.
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And so I think that it's incredibly important and I take
13:22
a great amount of responsibility in making sure that our policies
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are appropriate and that they're being followed and carried out
13:29
really well. But like, it's also really
13:31
boring and I don't, I don't love it.
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So I would say that that's probably the most challenging
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part of my job is just getting through the work every day.
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But but the most rewarding thing is, even though I work totally
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remote and I don't actually get a whole lot of contact with
13:45
clients anymore, I do still get to go on site occasionally.
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And I still I do still get to run groups as well as a part of
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training our staff. So I really love being able to
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go on site and still run a really great psycho Ed group or
13:59
process group and really see the benefits of that programming and
14:04
the way that people react to it. So that's definitely my favorite
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part of the job is still just doing some of the frontline
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clinical work. I.
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Love it. What's what's a group that you
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like to run or that you think is really beneficial?
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Because I used to love those, those process groups, not all of
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them, but I used to love them. I, I love process groups.
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I love them so much. I, I don't particularly like
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working from a script and a lot of psycho Ed groups are, are
14:28
really scripted and, and they have to be, nobody can memorize
14:31
all of that information. And so like they have to be
14:33
pretty scripted. There's worksheets, whatever.
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So like they're good. They have good information, but
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I love a good process group. I love it when the group really
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starts vibing and everyone's able to have a great discussion
14:44
and you can see when people start to have breakthroughs in
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those groups. So I think that is the funnest
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and most rewarding one. It's challenging to people have
14:53
like a lot of emotional responses to it, but like that's
14:56
the work that has to be done in treatment to see a real change.
15:00
And so I love seeing that happen.
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I love a good process group. Yeah, I agree.
15:05
And sometimes they go in completely different directions
15:07
than you assume they would. And that's when, yeah, the magic
15:11
really happens. You know, the lights kind of
15:12
turn on in someone's eyes. And I love that.
15:15
That's one of my favorite parts about recovery is working with
15:17
other addicts and seeing that light kind of come on and
15:21
knowing today that I didn't 'cause that, but I was able to
15:24
be sort of a conduit, you know, of what I call my higher power
15:28
into carrying the message of recovery, right.
15:31
Yeah, yeah, I, I love being in those groups as well too,
15:34
because you take a bit of a different role as a facilitator
15:37
in a process group, right? Like I'm, I'm not there
15:39
lecturing everyone. I'm not instructing people, I'm
15:42
not teaching them something. Instead, we're all just learning
15:45
from each other. And so I feel like it's
15:47
appropriate for me to also put some of myself into those groups
15:51
too. So clients that I work with,
15:53
they know I'm in recovery. That's something that I'll share
15:56
during those process groups as well.
15:58
I'll use my own experience to be able to help people with making
16:01
seen those breakthroughs. And so I, I really like that as
16:03
well. I feel like it's a really unique
16:05
way as a clinician to be able to work with people is sharing my
16:09
own recovery. Yeah, sort of adds that, that
16:12
site that, that, you know, new added layer of, of trust and,
16:17
you know, the lived experience. Yeah.
16:18
It's like I didn't suffer for nothing, right.
16:21
You know, there's a, a piece of recovery literature.
16:24
We were just talking about this before I I jumped on here with
16:27
another fellow in recovery where it's like, you know, one day my
16:32
struggles, my trials, my tribulations will be of maximum
16:36
use to others, right? I, I will be able to use it.
16:39
It'll be an asset going forward. And you know, when I first came
16:42
in, if you told me that I would have screamed in your face and
16:45
told you to F off, right. But I've, I've found that to be,
16:48
you know, extremely true today. Yeah, I've I've definitely found
16:52
that to be the case as well. It's it's incredibly rewarding
16:56
to have someone be able to say that my experiences have
16:59
positively impacted them. Still would have preferred to
17:02
not go through the experience of addiction, but at least if I had
17:06
to do it, like coming out on the other side and having it be
17:09
worth something, I think it's really meaningful.
17:12
Yeah, I want to talk about modalities of recovery because
17:15
this has been coming up a lot for me lately, especially now
17:18
that I've, you know, I, I try to keep anonymity and, you know,
17:22
respect the principles of the program that I'm in.
17:26
But I find that there's a lot of people out there, at least on
17:28
the Internet, and I know this is dangerous, but that that kind of
17:32
don't really vibe well with the main modality of recovery, which
17:36
is 12 step. And when I say main, I just mean
17:39
the most popular. I, I think what are the
17:42
different modalities of recovery that you sort of arm people with
17:47
when they go to, they leave treatment.
17:49
And yeah, I guess just talk about what, what, what do you
17:52
offer for people? What are, what are the different
17:54
modalities? Yeah.
17:56
So we include 12 step programming in our facilities as
17:59
well. I think it is really important
18:01
that people be exposed to that because for the people it works
18:04
for, it works really, really well.
18:06
And then for some people it just doesn't.
18:08
I did not do well with 12 step. That was the first thing I tried
18:11
when when I was looking to do something about my addiction and
18:15
I had a terrible experience, probably because the group that
18:19
I went to was in my extremely small town and the facilitator
18:23
running it was celebrating I think his tenure shift that day.
18:27
I was like, my friend, I saw you smoking crack last weekend.
18:30
So like it just didn't, it didn't resonate because it
18:33
didn't feel real, probably because it wasn't.
18:37
So 12 step. It's great.
18:38
It's great for some people, It's not great for everyone's.
18:40
We use a variety of different things.
18:43
One of the big things that we do for people when they leave our
18:47
programming is we we have to do our own aftercare.
18:50
So we continue offering group programming and individual
18:53
counseling to people for at least six months after they
18:57
finish treatment with us. And we find that that's really
18:59
important for people to be able to translate the skills that
19:02
they learned in treatment back into their home environment.
19:05
Otherwise, we're just plopping them down in the exact same
19:07
situation that they were in before.
19:09
Yeah. See you later.
19:10
Yeah. Yeah.
19:12
Good luck. Yeah.
19:14
Yeah. I mean, it's it's really easy.
19:16
I always say this, but it's really easy to stay sober in
19:18
treatment from my experience. It's when I leave that that's
19:21
when the work begins and and I get out of that bubble and, you
19:25
know, life starts to happen. How are you going to cope with
19:27
it now, buddy? Right.
19:28
Yeah. What about.
19:31
Yeah, what about like. So what are other recovery
19:34
programs outside of yours that people can jump into that are,
19:40
you know, something like SMART Recovery or, I don't know if you
19:42
refuge recovery is another one. What are some of those?
19:45
Yeah, SMART Recovery is a really good option for people who kind
19:48
of aren't into the whole higher power aspect of 12 step
19:51
programming. So it's it's a really good
19:53
option for people. We found that that especially
19:56
vibes a little bit better with them, like Indigenous clients
19:59
who just really don't care for, you know, the the more.
20:05
It's not religious, it's not meant to be religious, but it's
20:07
often interpreted as like the religious aspect of 12 step
20:10
programming. But like the other things that
20:13
we look for people to get into is it's typically like
20:15
behavioral therapy based programs.
20:17
So often we'll find that people who had a significant amount of
20:20
trauma and that's what led them to their addiction, they might
20:23
want to leave and do a DVT program.
20:26
And you can do those privately or like Cam H has a DVT program
20:30
that has a massively long wait list because it's very good.
20:34
But like anything behavioral therapy based, it's going to be
20:36
really helpful for people as well.
20:38
So we encourage them to continue on with their own treatment
20:40
afterwards. The and so I, I, you know, you
20:45
brought up Cam H, which is, I don't know, are they full?
20:48
They're fully government funded, or partially.
20:49
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can you talk to I guess the
20:53
biggest I always try to tell people I'm like, because they
20:56
always, you know, people will ask me is government funded
20:58
good, right? Is it good treatment in Canada?
21:01
And I never like to say it's good or bad, right?
21:03
It's just different. In your experience, what is the
21:06
major difference between private funded treatment and public
21:10
funded government funded? Yeah, frankly, it's weightless.
21:14
No matter where you go, what program you go into, whether
21:17
it's private or public, the the specific approach that they use
21:20
in that facility or, or that program is either going to work
21:24
for you or it won't. They're all very, very
21:25
different. And so you can't like really
21:27
objectively say like for profit is different than government
21:31
funded in these ways. They're all based on on
21:34
different things and they're going to be successful with some
21:36
people and unsuccessful with others.
21:38
Really the biggest difference is that the government funded stuff
21:42
often has really, really long wait.
21:43
Less like the program I referenced through Cam H huge
21:48
wait list for their DBT program and even seeing a psychiatrist,
21:52
like you can see a psychiatrist through KMH for free.
21:54
It's wonderful, but you're going to have to wait.
21:57
And so it's not, it's not ideal for people who are looking to
22:00
get help right now. So that's the big advantage of
22:04
any of the the for profit places is that you know, if you have
22:07
the money for it, you can come and get treatment as soon as you
22:10
want it. You can pick up the phone today
22:12
and talk to our admissions line and be at our facility.
22:16
Honestly probably still right now because it's like 2:30 in
22:18
the afternoon as we're recording this.
22:19
If you called us right now at 2:30 in the afternoon, we could
22:23
admit you tonight. So I mean, that's that's a huge
22:25
advantage to people who really want help right now.
22:32
How do you, I always, I always wonder this with, with, you
22:37
know, social workers, therapists that have the their own recovery
22:41
programs. How do you sort of separate the
22:43
two because you know, you get a lot of recovery out of out of
22:48
parts of your job, right, That probably benefit you, I would
22:50
assume, and your recovery. How do you sort of separate the
22:54
two? Like I, I, I need to practice my
22:56
recovery over here and then I have my work and professional
22:59
over here. Yeah, it is really important to
23:03
keep those separate because as much as I said, you know, just a
23:06
few minutes ago that when I'm running across this group, so I
23:08
like to bring a bit of myself into it, I'm still a
23:10
facilitator. So like I shouldn't be relying
23:13
on that group to support my recovery.
23:15
That's not the place for it. I'm getting paid to be there.
23:19
It's it's not for me. So as much as I receive benefits
23:22
from it, it can't be my only thing.
23:23
It can't be what I'm relying on. So I, I continue my own therapy
23:27
as well. And I have my own routines, my
23:29
own things that I do to maintain my own peace and in order to be
23:33
able to continue my recovery as well.
23:35
So they are, they do have to be very separate because my job is
23:39
my job and I have to make sure I'm prioritizing the clients.
23:42
And then in my own home life, then, you know, that's my time
23:44
to be able to practice my recovery.
23:47
Yeah, I love that. And and that leads me into my
23:49
next question too. And what is what are your daily
23:51
essentials for staying sober? Hmm, a healthy routine is
23:55
honestly the biggest thing for me.
23:58
That's when I would really go kind of off the rails is when my
24:01
routine is no good. If I allow myself to, you know,
24:07
you know, stop going to work if I let myself not, do, you know,
24:11
daily exercise. If I was, you know, just willing
24:14
to start eating out in pubs and stuff again, like that's, that's
24:18
when my recovery is not going to be going so well anymore.
24:21
So for me, it was the establishment of a daily routine
24:24
and that's what my maintenance is for being able to stay sober.
24:27
Obviously when I was in really early recovery, it was a lot
24:30
more than that, you know, therapy that I had to do,
24:32
avoiding certain locations, a lot of relapse prevention stuff.
24:37
But now it's more just maintaining the healthy
24:39
lifestyle that I've built. But I've been in recovery for
24:42
about 15 years, so I've had some time to build that recovery
24:46
routine. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
24:51
Another thing that keeps coming up lately for me is these sort
24:56
of, I almost want to say shortcuts, but they're not
24:59
shortcuts like medically assisted medication, assisted
25:06
modalities to get sober. IE.
25:09
I don't know, you're seeing a lot of studies about Ozempic and
25:11
cravings helping that, you know, helping alcohol cravings as well
25:15
as naltrexone for being, you know, a suitable option for a
25:19
lot of people. I guess my question is what are
25:23
you seeing that's been effective in terms of medication to assist
25:27
people and what what do you think the future holds for that?
25:31
What do you think that looks like?
25:32
I. Think there's great potential
25:34
for, you know, medication to be really helpful in people's
25:37
recovery. I think the problem is when we
25:41
start seeing it as the solution instead of a tool Like anti
25:44
craving medication is definitely going to be helpful for you in
25:47
your recovery if that's something you need.
25:48
If, if cravings are the biggest reason that you relapse, then
25:52
yeah, anti craving medication is going to be a really good idea
25:54
for you. But it can't be the only thing
25:58
if you're relying on that medication.
25:59
Then I mean, what happens if you're, if your amount runs out
26:04
and you can't get a refill right away?
26:06
You've got to have tools to be able to continue that recovery.
26:09
So we, it has to be seen as that as just a tool and not the
26:13
entirety of your recovery. I think that's where we got into
26:16
a lot of trouble with methadone as well.
26:18
We had all of those methadone clinics open up and people
26:21
started seeing methadone as being the replacement for any
26:24
sort of opioid addiction and then just had a bunch of people
26:27
addicted to methadone, which was also not a great drug.
26:30
So I think it we just need to see these things as a tool.
26:34
Methadone is not bad, Methadone clinics are not bad, but it's
26:39
not super helpful when we start seeing it as a solution.
26:43
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the term liquid
26:46
handcuffs comes up because I've heard that from, I've never, you
26:49
know, I never struggled with, I never really liked opioids too
26:53
much. Thank God.
26:54
I was more of a stimulant guy. But you know, from the people
26:57
that I know that have been addicted to opiates and have
27:01
gone on the methadone program, I've heard that it's the most
27:05
difficult drug to come off of and to get clean from.
27:10
Yeah, and. The withdrawals are really bad
27:12
too. Yeah, I'm glad I never relied on
27:15
that one. I guess luckily, and also
27:17
unluckily at the same time again, I was in a really small
27:19
community and that just wasn't available.
27:22
Like that wasn't a thing that that we had.
27:24
And so, yeah, I never ended up on methadone because it just
27:28
wasn't available to me. How, how did you kick opiates?
27:33
How did you get sober? What did that look like?
27:34
I'm going to jump back a little bit.
27:36
Yeah, You know, I don't think my recovery journey was the typical
27:40
one that people go down. So I I really didn't get a whole
27:42
lot of help at first. I I was addicted to opioids as a
27:47
teenager. I ended up being expelled from
27:50
high school and, you know, just kind of spiraled into like
27:54
homelessness and just a bunch of other really problematic
27:56
behaviors. And, and I don't know, it was
28:02
just some determination, I think, to get my life back on
28:05
track. I saw all of my friends kind of
28:07
moving on with their lives and doing things that I wanted to be
28:10
able to do and and I just kind of lost access to my dealer as
28:15
well because I ended up moving to a new city to, you know, try
28:18
to do a little bit better for myself and I didn't have it
28:22
anymore. So as much as that is ill
28:24
advised to detox at home on your own, that's what I did.
28:28
I detoxed on the floor of my apartment and then I ended up re
28:32
enrolling in school and got a bunch of help through there too.
28:35
Therapy. I had really wonderful guidance
28:37
counselor who helped me a lot and I got a job and I got back
28:41
on track. And then I did years and years
28:44
of trauma therapy, which was kind of the the most helpful
28:48
thing because that was one of the reasons that I really, I got
28:51
involved in opioids because I was in pain.
28:53
I was in pain from the trauma that I had experienced.
28:57
And it just kind of made some strange logical sense that I'm
29:01
in pain, so I should just take a painkiller and it'll make
29:04
everything better. And it did, until it didn't
29:07
anymore. When, when life sort of happens
29:12
to you today and you know, you get, you get into, I'm sure
29:16
you've had your fair share of adversity over the 15 years.
29:20
How do you, how do you get through that?
29:22
Like what do you, what do you do to sort of navigate adversity
29:26
today? Well, for me, it's just not an
29:29
option to go back to opioids. Now I have, I have a three-year
29:33
old daughter and that's just not something that I can, you know,
29:36
that I could possibly sacrifice is my relationship with her in
29:39
order to go back to that. And so at this point, they rely
29:43
on the skills that I learned in the therapy that I did.
29:47
And I also have a really great supportive group of friends.
29:50
It's like I said, family support is one of the really good
29:53
indicators of whether or not a person will be successful in
29:56
recovery. And I don't have that because my
29:59
family's not in recovery. So instead I've replaced that
30:01
with, you know, really excellent group of friends who hold me
30:05
accountable and who are there for me.
30:07
So that's really what I do. It's it's a combination of me
30:10
not being willing to sacrifice the things that I work for and
30:14
also a really great group of people who hold me accountable
30:17
and make sure that I'm using my skills to be able to stay sober.
30:21
Yeah, I love that. I I couldn't agree more.
30:23
The recovery community for me has been so essential.
30:26
And that's why when I started this podcast, you know, the main
30:28
goal is to stay sober myself. Every time I sit down with
30:31
somebody in recovery, even not even somebody that's not, you
30:35
know, just working on themselves and not in recovery, I get so
30:38
much. I learned so much out of how to
30:40
cope and how to, you know, deal. And and also when I'm listening
30:43
to someone else, I'm not thinking about Anthony for for
30:45
that, you know, amount of time, which is a beautiful thing,
30:48
right? What if somebody's listening
30:53
right now and they have a loved one that, you know, can't seem
30:56
to put together some time of, of sobriety, recovery, can't stop
30:59
using drugs, can't stop drinking?
31:02
What What's some really important advice that they could
31:05
get in in terms of how to deal with a loved one in addiction?
31:09
I would really recommend to that person that they receive their
31:12
own support and and from someone who really understands addiction
31:17
as well. So, you know, you can go to just
31:20
any therapist, but not just any therapist is going to know
31:22
anything about addiction. It's not actually something, I
31:26
don't know if people know this, It's not actually something that
31:29
you're automatically taught in school.
31:32
I had in my undergraduate degree, when I did my
31:35
undergraduate social work degree, there was one option for
31:40
an addictions course, but it was an elective and was a very
31:43
popular elective. So I didn't even get into it.
31:46
None of my formal education in social work has included
31:50
addictions treatment. That was something that, you
31:52
know, from my own personal experience and also just the
31:54
training I did on my own outside of outside of school is what
31:58
made me able to be able to help people who are in addiction.
32:02
And so I, I would say that that's what the family members
32:05
really need because they need to understand how they're
32:08
contributing to their loved ones addiction.
32:10
Are they enabling? Do they have unclear boundaries?
32:14
What, what are they doing? Because they can only address
32:18
the things that are within their own control.
32:20
They're not going to be able to force their loved 1 to get
32:22
sober, but they can certainly work on the things that they are
32:25
doing to contribute to it and also receive their own support
32:28
as well. Because it's hard.
32:30
It's hard to watch someone love going through addiction.
32:33
So that's the biggest thing that that I would recommend is that
32:35
they seek their own support from a person who is specialized in
32:39
addictions. What's the difference in your
32:42
opinion between enabling and supporting?
32:46
It's such a fine line, like it is such a fine line.
32:49
And it's, it's hard to know when you've crossed that line because
32:53
often we see like financial stuff is something that that can
32:58
cross the line very easily into enabling.
33:00
So like, what's the difference between making sure your loved
33:03
one is safe and enabling them to continue their addiction?
33:06
And it's a different line for everyone.
33:09
And so I mean, it's, it's something that they have to
33:12
determine on their own. And a lot of it is whether or
33:16
not the person is now reliant on you for your addiction.
33:18
So asking yourself, if I didn't give them this thing, this
33:22
money, this, this support, this whatever, would they be able to
33:27
engage in their addiction? And if the answer is no, then
33:30
you're enabling them. Love that.
33:33
Yeah. It's, it's pretty.
33:34
It's, it's, it's a lot easier to understand when you're, when you
33:37
look at it in a kind of, you know, black and white context,
33:40
right? Am I preventing them from
33:45
experiencing the natural consequences of their addiction?
33:48
Right. That was the way I was taught.
33:51
And if you can, yeah, if you can say yes, I'm preventing the
33:54
natural consequences, then it's in some degree I might be
33:56
enabling. Them, yeah, I would agree with
33:58
that 100%. So OK so my loved one has a
34:03
problem. They've agreed to go to a
34:05
treatment center. Where do I start?
34:08
How do what do I look for in a treatment center?
34:10
Where do I go from here? Yeah, there's there's lots of
34:13
different options out there. So I mean, the first thing they
34:16
can do is just call them, pick up the phone and and get some
34:19
information about the treatment that that particular facility
34:23
offers. And, and, and it's going to look
34:25
different from everyone. Can you afford it is one if
34:29
you're going to lose your house in order to send your loved one
34:31
for, you know, treatment, then that's probably not setting them
34:34
up for success when they return home.
34:36
So can you afford the facility that you've chosen?
34:39
Is it accessible to you? Is your loved one agreeing to
34:42
it? All of that kind of stuff is is
34:45
what you should look at. And can you continue to support
34:48
that person once they return home specifically with their
34:51
addiction, not support them for experiencing any consequences?
34:59
Yeah, and I mean for me too, in my family, the one thing that
35:04
was always driven home was to make sure that they're licensed
35:06
and accredited. I think that that was a big
35:10
thing. You know, you've heard some
35:10
horror stories about treatment centres in Ontario that have
35:13
closed down as a result of not being licensed and accredited.
35:16
And I've found that. So I, I didn't know this, but I
35:20
was a part of a Accreditation Canada meeting.
35:22
The other, I would say a couple weeks ago from the treatment
35:25
centre that I attended, the last treatment center that I
35:29
attended, and I didn't know that they do this.
35:30
I thought it was really cool, the accreditation Canada, it's
35:33
that little red and white logo. They actually interview past
35:37
clients and past family members of treatment centres to see what
35:41
the program was like, you know, what it, what it, what the
35:44
positives were, what the negatives were.
35:45
And I thought that was really interesting because what, what
35:47
better way to find out about a treatment center than to ask
35:51
someone that had attended it and ask a family member that had
35:54
attended the family program, right?
35:56
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's cool.
35:57
And yeah, that is something you want to look for for sure.
36:00
That's CATC. We're accredited by CARV, which
36:03
don't, don't ask me what the acronym stands for, I can never
36:05
remember. But we're accredited through
36:07
CARV and it is a hugely in depth process.
36:11
Like they come in, they inspect our sites, they look at all of
36:14
our programming, they look at our policies, they look at
36:17
everything to make sure that nothing is slipping by and that
36:20
what we're offering is a good ethical service.
36:23
And yeah, you want to look for like licensed clinicians as
36:25
well, too, because they're being held accountable by a college to
36:29
make sure that they're practicing in a way that's
36:31
really ethical as well. And there's oversight.
36:34
So you know that they're not just going to do something and
36:36
and get away with it. If it's unethical, There's
36:39
there's a way for them to be held accountable and that's
36:41
really important. I agree.
36:46
OK, let's let's end with this. I learned a lot today.
36:49
Thank you. If you could go back and say
36:52
something to your active addicted self, what do you think
36:56
you would say? I think I would just want to
37:00
assure myself that it gets better from here because a lot
37:04
of the time the reason that I wasn't motivated to do anything
37:07
about the addiction or about the circumstances that I found
37:10
myself in was because I didn't really have any belief that I
37:13
was going to get better from there.
37:14
I felt very, very hopeless. So I think I would just want my
37:18
my past self to know that it can and it will get better.
37:24
Yeah. I mean, the first step is always
37:26
putting up your hand, right? I need help.
37:28
And then when somebody in my experience puts their hand back
37:31
out, it's like, I gotta, I gotta take the step, right?
37:33
The first step, Yeah, I appreciate you, Melanie.
37:36
Thank you so much for coming on. And I learned a lot today.
37:39
Yeah, not a problem at all. Thanks for having me.
37:41
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The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
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37:53
This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice,
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addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is
38:00
struggling with addiction, please consult A licensed
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physician, addiction specialist, or mental health.
38:05
Professional, you are no longer alone.