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IFH 738: Inside Warner Bros Writing Program with Rebecca Windsor · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle
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Podcast, Episode number seven thirty eight. Description begins in the writer's imagination,
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but should finish in the readers. Stephen King broadcasting from the back Alley and
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Hollywood. It's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to
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survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz.
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And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of
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the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's
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show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film
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If you want to order it, just head over to www. Dot filmbiz
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book dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Well, guys, today
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on the show, we have Rebecca windsor now Rebecca happens to be in charge
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of Warner Brothers Writing and Directing Labs. And what these programs do is allows
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new writers and directors access to getting work inside of Warner Brothers and television.
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And it's been very mysterious over the years. I've heard about these programs for
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many, many years, and not many people know what goes on behind the
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scenes. How do you get in what are they looking for? How do
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you submit all these kind of things? So I wanted Rebecca to come on
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the show to discuss the writer's lab, but also the director's lab. So
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if you're a writer or a director out in the audience, this is an
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episode that you want to take a listen to. So, without any further
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ado, please enjoy my conversation with Rebecca Windsor. I like to welcome to
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the show, Rebecca Windsor. How are you doing, Rebecca? I'm good?
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How are you? I am doing fantastic? Thank you so much for
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being on the show. We have a history together. Our kids used to
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go to school together and that's how we met originally. And I think one
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day I realized, like you said it in passing, like oh I work,
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what brother? I'm like, wait, what do you do? And
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I think one day, like I was walking my girls to school and you
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like stop being like you're famous, You're in the La Times. So I
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just thought you were some guy that, like, I don't know, maybe
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worked in sound design or I don't know, Like I knew you were tangentially
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related, but like I didn't know what you did. And then I saw
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you on the front harbor Valley Times, and I was like, oh my
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god, exactly, and my girl's like why did what? What? What
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did? What did? Why did should stop me? What's going on?
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And it was so funny, like are you famous, daddy? I'm like
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no, no, no, I'm I've got less than five minutes for the
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day you working for the day. I was famed. I did get a
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lot of emails that day. But yeah, but we and we just recently
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ran into each other at the Austin Film Festival, which was also a pleasant
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surprise of just walking around like back God, it was an out of context
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dog like have it. I was like, what is your face doing in
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this like a barbecue mixer? And then it was like I click two and
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two together. Oh yeah, you moved to Austin last year. Of course
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you would be here exactly. So. But so after after talking a bit,
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were like, you got to come on the show because I don't think
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anybody really knows the inside workings of what you do over at Warner Brothers and
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the workshops and things that you were that you are in charge of. But
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before we get there, how did we get started in this insane business?
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I will try and tell the cliffs notes version or I don't know what the
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kids are calling it, the new clips notes something else, right, so
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YouTube video version? Yes, hey, yeah. So so I grew up
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in San Diego. From the time I was I mean, from as long
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as I can remember, I wanted to be an actor. I actually auditioned
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and got a callback for Punky Brewster but did not get the Wall. But
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it was all I ever wanted to do. So I went to to Northwestern
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and study theater, and then from there I moved to New York. I
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think, uh, you know, New York was always the dream of you
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know, go be a struggling actress, and you know, theater is much
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more important and prestigious them, you know, coming to LA and I think
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also in the back of my head being from California, it just made the
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most sense that I, you know, wanted to go to New York.
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So I went to New York. Uh, spent most of my time working
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in restaurants and bars, and you know, taking acting classes and you know,
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doing like really really terrible student films and off off off off of Broadway,
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black Blocks theater, but really you know, uh, with not making
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a living from it. And and that was fine because I you know,
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I was young, and I thought, you know, I was living a
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life, and it felt like what I always told myself was you just have
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to persevere. You know, people stop pursuing acting all the time, and
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if I'm if I stick it out and I get the one job, then
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it'll just be a domino act, you know, a work that gets the
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work and then you know, I'll have a career. So that was the
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plan. And then you know, after a few years, as I saw,
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uh, it wasn't happening as fast for me. And also you can't
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tell from zoo I'm six feet tall, so I'm not the most easily castable
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actor out there. I'm never going to be an Allison new I think it
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was that and looking at my friends who are also actors, who I felt
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like were even more ambitious and more dedicated than I was. I mean,
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I was dedicated, but I also wanted to have a life, you know.
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And then when I met my now husband, I think that was the
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real thing where you know, it's one thing when you're you know, twenty
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two, twenty three, uh, and you think about buying home and getting
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married and having kids. Those are hypothetical things that will happen at some point
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in your life. But when I met my now husband, I made those
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things a little bit more tangible, uh, as something that could happen soon.
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And so I think it was it was hard for me to sort of
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say out loud that I don't want to pursue acting anymore, and so I
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kind of, you know, I just kind of kept going through the motions,
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even though I don't think I ever stopped wanting to act. You know,
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the passion is still there, but it's just the life of an actor.
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Oh you know, it's not penvieous. And I'm too I don't know,
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type a too, you know, kind of career oriented to I think
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to that business part of it in the fact that so much is out of
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your control as an actor, that you have to wait for someone else to
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give you a job, as opposed to your filmmaker you find a way to
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make your films, or you're a writer, you can write, no one
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has to give you the opportunity. But as an actor, someone has to
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give you the opportunity. And it just felt I had like I had no
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control over it. So anyways, all of that, you know, combined
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with I think New York running its course for me. I love living there,
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but it's pretty, you know, tough place to live, and I
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always felt the pool to come back to California. They so we got married,
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we moved back to California. Yeah. Then it felt like, Okay,
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now I have to start out acting again in a brand new city,
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find new management. All of that. I just felt like a insurmountable you
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know, rack being pushed up the hill. And so my sister in law,
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who does not work in the industry but is a very smart lady,
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said to me, listen, you can go back to acting in six months,
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so you can go back in twenty years. But if there's anything else
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you want to do, you should probably start thinking about it now because you're
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getting older and you're going to have to start out at the bottom and work
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your way up, and it's going to get harder the old again. So
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I thought those were wise words, and I started reading I don't even know
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if they still have it, but there used to be the UTA job list
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that would come out every later got listed, you know, assistant jobs and
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internships and things like that. So I got an internship back when you could
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still get unpaid internships, not for college credit because I'd already graduated college.
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So I got an internship at a feature production company and learned about development,
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and the light bulb in my head went off where I was still able to
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use that creative muscle that I, you know, was using as an actor,
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but you know, working with that, we're working with writers and you
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know, making making scripts better. So it still fulfilled that that drive and
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that you know desire and that passion, but hopefully with more of a career
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paths. So had the internship, everyone there said, go work at an
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agency even if you don't want to be an agent, so I went.
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I got a job at a literary agency called Broderweb Turban Superman, which was
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a boutique agency that was small but represented on the TV side people like Shonder,
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Wrhines and Chuck Lorie and Don Bell sorry Credence, Yeah yeah, so
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like they were a powerhouse and TV and I went and beinging, no,
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I want to work at features like the effect the job, but the only
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desk that was open was a TV agent. So I thought, okay,
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fine, I'll just take it for a couple of months and then move on
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to a feature desk when it opens. But we'll be right back after a
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word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So I get on
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the TV desk, and this was like the first renaissance of TV. Like
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her first year there was the Friday Night Lights pilot, and you had you
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know, obviously like Sopranos and in Lost, and like you know, start
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starting to be this like really like this wealth of really amazing content. So
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I think it was not like seeing that the quality was there. And then
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also as they learned how the businesses worked, I realized that I really like
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the television business and I like the cyclical nature of it. Again that like
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type a sort of structured grin that I have. Well, I mean,
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I mean, this is the one thing that so many people coming up don't
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understand is like film film feature films are sexy, that's what that's all the
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splash. But where people really make money is in television. Yeah, and
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people don't think about that. And and now thank god, you know,
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there is such an amazing renaissance in the creative of television. And I mean
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pretty much started with the Sopranos. It kind of you know, David pretty
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much opened to crash the door open, and then everything everybody just started doing
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this amazing work from Breaking Bad, mad Man and it is all on and
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so forth. But the people still because the sizzle. The Oscars are a
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lot sexier than the Emmys, and it's just but smart people in the business
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television and like television directors do very well, whereas feature directors are struggling to
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put I just talked to a feature director the other day who will remain nameless,
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who's like, I've been nominated for Oscars and I I have to do
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commercials to make ends meet because it's between job after job, and he doesn't
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do like giant jobs that are paying him obscene amount. But he's very well
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known and he's feel very rare well respected. I was like, that's the
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world we live in. That is you know, that is the world we
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live in. It's not the eighties anymore, one hundred percent. And you
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know, and I can talk about this a little bit, you know later,
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but you know, I have found just in the in the last several
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years as I talked to, you know, indie film directors and sort of
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try and like sell them on the dress of his workshop and all of that.
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And when I was first having those conversations like six years ago, I'd
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get a lot of IM sure, I'll think about it, and you could
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tell they're like, why would I ever do TV? But to know,
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people are like, oh my god, there's this you know, episodic directing,
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Like, yes, I you know, I would want to do that.
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You know, both for I think, you know, sustainability, like
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you said, just like making a living. But I think again, uh,
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TV is a little bit sexier than it was before so much people's mind.
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They're open to it. So you know what's sexy though that check the
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check and very sexy. Yeah for sure, you know, not not living
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hand to mouth, you know, like in a tiny little studio apartment.
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Yeah, exactly exactly. Now, you early in your career, you got
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to work with or assist mister Todd Lieberman, who is a very well known
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producer who's done a few movies. That many but he's done that. Yeah,
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he's done quite a few films. What was the biggest lesson you took
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away from working with Todd? Well, I think you know the lesson.
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I don't know if it's specifically with Todd, but it's with that company,
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which is Mandonville Films that he runs with David Hoberband, and they you know,
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made like a lot of really big movies and you know, very successful
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feature producers. Uh. The lesson, well, basically the lesson that could
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burn for me is I don't want to work in features, and I took
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that. I took that job, you know, after having worked at the
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agency and sort of at the agency, I was like, Okay, I
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want to be a TV executive. And then I interviewed with Todd and I'll
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you know, always take the meeting. And so I'm like, okay,
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I'm meeting the president and this big feature company. I'm never going to get
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it. And then he hired me and I thought okay, and he told
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me in the interview they were hiring a TV executive, So I thought,
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okay, if I'm working with the president, I will have my gandsit everything.
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And so yes, right now it's lostly features. But the TV you
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know, their TV side is growding to you. So that's sort of why
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I took that job. And you know, and I'll give it, you
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know, your question the second. But while I was there, you know
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it it's just you know, it's even for a successful feature company, it
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took them several years to get their TV business off the ground, which is
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now very successful, but at the time, you know, it was still
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like ninety percent of what I was doing with s features. But so yeah,
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I mean it can again have the two and some odd years that I
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was there, we made five movies, which is you know, pretty unheard
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of you know, production companies these days, and even still it's just I
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just it's and it was, you know, the pace. You know,
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we had movies that were you know, had opened offices in pre production and
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we're like four weeks out of production and then just like fell apart, you
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know, and and things that weren't developing for years and years and years,
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and then things that would fall apart and then we'd come back five and I
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was just like, I can't deal with that, Like, I want to
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know that I'm working on something and then and it's either moving forward or it's
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dead. I don't want to spend five to ten years, you know,
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booping that this project. Right, That's that's not the way television works generally.
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They don't they don't know, no. And then I think, and
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I think for him, you know, Todd is I mean, he's so
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smart. I mean it was. It was uh, it was really like
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a masterclass and listen in like in being with a studio producer, you know,
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being able to listen in on his calls and hear how he navigated tricky
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situations and how uh when you know, like when he would get in the
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middle of you know, I don't know, like an argument or like having
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to deal with the situation, being able to like be that mediator and make
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each person think that he was on their side and you know it like you
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know, fully supported them while he had to sort of navigate all those politics
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that needed It was really it was pretty impressive. So I think that and
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you know, and also just his taste and and and his just his uh,
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the amount of work that he did. I mean he's a workaholic and
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that's what made him so successful so young, right, Uh, pretty intensive
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times, but but yeah, I mean he just has a drive like no
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other. Now, you also got a chance to work at a little startup
16:08
film festival called Sundance. You were all the credit for success. Obviously obviously
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it was you and Bob, You and Bob all the way. Now you
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work over at the Institute, correct, Yeah, what did you do for
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Sundance. So so there's you know, the Sundance Film Festival, and then
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there's the Sundance Institute which runs the festival. So the festival is obviously the
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public facing part of it that everybody knows about. The Institute is a nonprofit
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and it is dedicated to supporting independent film artists in various mediums through through a
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lot of different programs. So I was in the feature film program, which
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was like the narrative side. There is a documentary side that is very successful.
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They have New Frontier which is like VR and AR and trans media,
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you know, leave a lot of different things like that. So with the
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within the feature film program, they run labs. So there is episodic Lab.
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I'm sorry that pisodic Lab we started a while is there. But the
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ones that have sort of been around forever were the Screenwriter's Lab and the Director's
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Lab. And again, like the people who came through that are people like
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Quentin Tarantino and you know, and Ryan Coogler and Damien Chazelle and Chloe Shao
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and like, you know, it's just like it goes kind of on and
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on and and I always love like one of these stories that I heard from
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way back when. Was one of the first projects that they had in like
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the very early eighties was a was a screen like called three thousand that was
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that's the Pretty Woman, isn't it? Pretty Woman? Yeah yeah, pretty
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Woman? Yeah yeah. But like when it went through the lab, it
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was like a dark drama about oh and you know, like not happy and
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oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a pretty woman. But you
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know again, you know, and like Taikowa Titi and like all these people
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who just you know, like the history and the legacy of what they've done
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is pretty amazing. So the labs are their talent pipeline programs. People apply
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to them and and and the goal is, you know, trying to find
18:07
filmmakers who on the I think on on the director side of it, they
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have the first time director, first time eature director, so they have to
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have made shorts, I mean, or they have to you know, done
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somewhere. And on the screenwriters side, I think they I think you're allowed
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to have had one fature credit. I might go on the three years,
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but you know, how do you take these independent artists who have And it's
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project specific, so it's not just you know, we're letting you in.
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It's we're letting you in and we're supporting you to try and get this film
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made. And they are very intense labs that take place at the sun Dan
18:48
Resort, which is a little bit outside Park City. There are like four
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to five day labs, and it's sort of like boot camp in the best,
18:56
like the best and the most intense sense, like a creative boot camp
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where they bring in advisors again, you know, like the top writers and
19:06
directors in Hollywood and a lot of alumni you come back to act as advisors
19:10
and your assigned advisor to who have read your script, and then you do
19:14
these like two hour note sessions, you know, with you know again these
19:18
like you know, ridiculously talented professionals who are trying to just give you ideas
19:22
and help you make the best version of your film. And then you take
19:26
all of that and go away, and you know, then the next version
19:30
is like the kitchen sing version, which is pretty terrible usually, and then
19:32
you just sort of like let it marinate and see what are the things that
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I you know, what were the common themes among all of the feedback that
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I got that as work incorporating, So there's that sort of creative process and
19:44
then post a lab, Sundance is really involved in just helping you try to
19:49
get your movie made, even though as a nonprofit they don't produce it,
19:52
they don't finance it. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
20:02
and now back to the show. It's it's a lot of you know,
20:07
networking, how do we make connections? So if you need to find a
20:11
producer or an executive producer right now, there's a lot of those people in
20:15
there in there, uh, the Sundayance extended family, So trying to find
20:19
you those people, like what what can what can sendiance do to help you
20:22
make your movie? If it's you know, introductions to finance series, is
20:26
it, if it's introductions to passing directors, editors, whatnot. And then
20:33
also kind of you know, again continuing helping to develop the sprits and then
20:37
you know, ideally hopefully you get to make the movie and it comes out
20:41
and all that. So that's pretty that's a pretty cool. I've heard of
20:45
the legends of those labs. I've talked to a few people who have gone
20:48
through them, and it's it sounds like summer camp but for filmmaking, And
20:52
it's like the bed. You've got like insane ass actors who just show up
20:56
and they're like working with like workshopping your ideas about that. Yeah, it
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sounds it sounds amazing. Look, it sounds amazing. I think everything.
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But I mean, if anybody can get in, it is like the best
21:07
experience. And you know they ever being able to say about Sundance is that
21:10
I know, probably from the outside it sometimes can feel like you're elitist or
21:15
insular or whatever, and it's it's the opposite of that. The people at
21:18
Sundance that I work with are the most dedicated to the mission of supporting you
21:23
know, independent artists who are just trying to get their five hundred thousand dollars
21:27
movie needs. So it's it's there's a lot of sacrifices that are made,
21:33
you know, because because the people who work there believe so strongly in it.
21:37
So it really is a family of sorts, you know, in the
21:41
best sense. Now I have to ask you because I found out during my
21:45
research that you worked with an actor that worked at his production company, mister
21:52
Samuel L. Jackson, the legendary icon that Samuel L. Jackson. I
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got to ask, what's it like working with Sam, I need it was.
22:03
It was awesome and he's amazing. I would like the first time he
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ever came into the office, and this is this was the job I had
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before send in the first time. You know, obviously he's very busy,
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so it's not like he's coming to the office every day because he's off making
22:17
movies and stuff, but still very involved. But I remember the first time
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he came into the office and at the time, I was still an assistant
22:22
and he was meeting with my boss in the like one door over, but
22:26
like the door was open, and I'm like, you know, sitting there
22:29
typing and doing my work and stuff, but I can hear him and it's
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just like you're hearing Sam Jackson's voice and you're just like, this is so
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weird because it's like the voice is so iconic, you know. But then
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I also remember like another time he came into the office. You know,
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it was like a year later, and and in our offices was on the
22:48
CBS Radford Lowton Studio City and right next to the lot is a subway you
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know, sandwich man. He like walks in carrying like his subway sandwich back.
23:00
I'd like to eat and I just I just like kept thinking, like
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what did the sandwich maker like the workings that way for like Nikking minim minimum
23:07
wage, and like Samuel Jackson comes in asks for a sandwich and he's like
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making it. Like he's probably like make me a mother f and known but
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no, I mean what I will say about Sam is so nice and down
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to earth, you know, obviously very cool and and pan all of that,
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but really really smart. Also, you know, the great thing about
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that job is, you know, sometimes with these like talent production companies,
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you know, after Driven Pods, the Vanity deal, it's like someone you
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know, it is just like, oh, yeah, I want to make
23:40
TV or whatever. And it was never about that. For Sam. I
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think it came from the fact that he just was a voracious viewer of television
23:48
and was really passionate about producing it and creating and being responsible for putting great
23:53
TV out there. And it was the best version of that kind of a
23:56
company where he, uh, he trusted my boss and I and and our
24:03
extensive TV experience to sort of advise him on like why this might work and
24:07
why this might not, you know, but also used you know, being
24:12
Sam Jackson to our advantage. If it helped, so you know, would
24:17
go to like the network pitches so we could try and sell the project in
24:19
the room and he would he would give notes on on material and again like
24:25
his his notes and his feedback were always so spot on because he's worked with
24:29
the best filmmakers out there, so he knows story, he knows character.
24:33
But you know, if he had a note and you said, you know,
24:36
oh that's not going to work because X, Y or Z, you're
24:38
like great, moving on, like I get it. So it was it
24:42
was really wonderful experience, and it was just you know, I think like
24:47
the biggest disappointment was that we just never got anything on the air, which
24:51
happens with company. Of course, it takes me to takes a minute.
24:55
Now, as a side piece of trivia, says you brought up the CBS
24:59
loot. I don't know if you knew this or not, but my wife
25:03
and I actually owned an olive oil and vinegar gourmet shop for three years and
25:07
we were on Ventura Boulevard in Studio City, right by Laurel Canyon, and
25:12
our back door opened up into CBS. So it was it was called originally
25:18
Ferrari Olive Oil. Oh, it was right out there, and we don't
25:25
get me. It was it was a dark time in our lives. We're
25:27
talking about like nine years ago to eight years ago, something like seven years
25:30
ago something like that, and uh, it was right there at CVS.
25:36
So I used to I used to actually get I was uh, oh god,
25:41
Brooklyn ninety nine always had to shoot in the back lot right on our
25:45
street. So the so the location guy's like, hey, we're gonna be
25:48
shooting here. I'm like, well, you're gonna have to pay me cause
25:51
you're gonna disrupt my business. They're like, I know. So they would
25:55
just pay off everybody, just even if it was like two blocks away.
25:57
We're like, hey, hey, yeah, shoup in business. I think
26:00
we must have just because I left. I stopped working at CBS in May
26:08
twenty twelve, so we must have jury Like we just missed like over we
26:15
overlap like six months maybe, So yeah, I would have gone there.
26:18
And yeah, no, we had some We had some good We had a
26:22
lot of celebrities that would come in and buy for the holidays and buy for
26:25
their offices and things like that. But that was a different life. It
26:29
was a lifetime ago. But I just thought because everyone listening knows. They
26:33
always ask me whether they meet me, did you really have an olive oil
26:36
store. I'm like, yes, it's a large, long, dark story
26:40
of of times where I was. I was burnt out by the business.
26:45
It can happen to the best. It happens to the best of us now.
26:48
But so now currently you're working for Warner Brothers. Uh in the in
26:53
the development well, in the workshop, what exactly do you do with water
26:56
Brothers? Now? So I run the Writer's Workshop and the Director's Workshop.
27:03
So two talent pipeline programs kind of similar to what Sundays does with their labs,
27:07
but focused on on television. So one is uh for aspiring TV writers
27:12
and one is for aspiring TV directors. And do they just and and they
27:18
just submit like it's just an application process. Sure, yeah, both of
27:21
them were application based, so I guess just it's easier to talk about them
27:23
one day a time. So with the Writer's Workshop, uh, the application
27:27
is open the month of May. We ask for a spec of a show
27:33
that's on the air, which I know specs are a little bit out of
27:36
fashion, but we do it for a couple of reasons. One that is
27:40
the job of a staff writer is you have to write your showrunner's voice.
27:44
So for us, if you if we're reading a spec of you know,
27:47
Missus Mazel or Stranger Things or whatnot and it doesn't feel like the show,
27:51
you've failed the assignment and you wouldn't get you know, you would be fired
27:55
and you're working on a show and can't capture it. So and I think
27:57
also, you know, high original pilots are very tough, and it's it's
28:02
sometimes hard, you know, to do like an apples to apples comparying material.
28:06
But if we have sort of a bar of where we know a show
28:08
is meant like to be, then we can. And also because we have
28:14
such a high volume of applicants to get like twenty five hundred submissions, so
28:18
to get through that material quickly. And again you know, we're using like
28:22
Missus Nasal as an example, like okay, which are the ones that you
28:26
know do not feel like the show? Okay, those are easy passes,
28:27
and then you know go back and say, like okay, which are the
28:30
ones that really stand out? So we get through that and then if you
28:33
advance to the next round, then we would ask for an original pilot or
28:37
it can be it can be a screenplay, it can be a play just
28:41
to you know, some original material, because it is important to us to
28:42
see you know your voices as a writer. And then from there we interview
28:48
a smaller group of candidates. It's very important because TV writing is a communal
28:52
experience, so it is very important that we know that you are an okay,
28:57
cool, chill person that can sit around for ten hours. So the
29:03
best advice, the best advice I've ever gotten, and the best and this
29:07
is the advice I always tell people, what advice do you have for me
29:11
working in the business? I go the biggest piece of advice is just don't
29:14
be a dick and if you that is so valuable. And if you could
29:19
just sit in a room with someone for eight hours and not want to kill
29:22
them. That sometimes trump's talent because you might have two people who are equally
29:29
talented. Maybe the other one's a little bit more talented, but if he's
29:30
a he or she is rough to work with, I always go with the
29:34
person I can. Yeah, it's like the showrunners putting together a dinner party,
29:38
like who are the they're gonna want to be with? And yes,
29:42
like don't be a dick? Is like obvious and that it's still worth saying.
29:47
But you know, beyond that, it's it's I mean, we will
29:49
we look for more than that. I mean, there are people who are
29:52
non dicks. Will be right back after a word from our sponsor and now
30:00
back to the show. But like, uh, don't you know maybe you're
30:07
a little socially awkward, you know, like they're nice people, but you're
30:08
just like or they're just so introverted that they just you know, and I
30:14
get everyone has nerved when they come in. So there's a lot of that,
30:17
and there's also just you know, we're looking for that like that spark,
30:21
you know, the jenesse Cua of a person that's you know, memorable,
30:26
whether it's in talking about why they write what they write, you know,
30:30
what drew them to to writing. You know, we we want to
30:33
feel passionate about championing these people because I then have to flip my name on
30:40
the line when I try and get them stabbed and then sending them to showrunners.
30:44
So it is a reflection on me, So I really need to stand
30:45
by them. So it is it is there's no exact science to any of
30:49
it, but it's you know, you know what when you when you meet
30:52
that person and you go like, oh yeah, they are ready, you
30:56
know, it's it's it's a little bit of that. So so for the
30:59
two twenty five hundred people, we pick eight Jesus. That's almost as bad
31:06
as Sunday and the Sunny it's as much worse. That's like thirty yawflo civil
31:10
are Yeah. And then and then the program and I say like, you
31:15
need to be in La for this. We are actually back in person this
31:18
year, which is really great. We're using the same protocols that the studio
31:22
is doing for writers or and so everyone was back sat masked and tested and
31:25
stuff like that. But so it's very exciting to be a person we did
31:27
to be in LA. We need one night a week so that people can
31:30
have their you know, day jobs at they're writers assistance or whatnot. We
31:34
need from October through March, and a lot of the workshop is focused on
31:41
everything else that you need to know to be successful beyond the writing. Maybe
31:44
we'll work on their writing, but again it's so competitive. So if you've
31:47
gotten in, we acknowledge your talented writer, but there are so many other
31:52
factors that you know and things you need to learn that are like the soft
31:56
skills of being in a writer. So what what what are a couple what
31:59
are a couple of those soft Yeah, so we bring in you know,
32:00
showrunners and executives. We do everything from a class. It's just an over
32:05
like a macro level overview of how the business works. And then we do
32:07
a lot of other classes. So like we will do a class on interviewing
32:12
skills, you know, how do you prepare for a general meeting with an
32:14
executive versus you're meeting a showrunner to get a job on your show. We
32:19
do a class on going to set. You know, oftentimes the writer of
32:22
the episode will be sent to set to produce the episode, and they act
32:25
as a proxy for the showrunner. So your first time staff writer and you
32:30
go to set, you know, and how do you how do you interact
32:32
with the episode's director if they're maybe not giving the things that you know your
32:36
showrunner wants. What do you do when the actors don't want to save the
32:38
lines? And sometimes you know, you call your showrunner, you know,
32:43
sometimes they're not available, so really trying to see, you know, what's
32:45
expected in that situation. We do an improv class to get writers to think
32:51
on their feet and not censor themselves. So often in a writer's room with
32:54
like you know, younger writers or newer writers, there's so much pressure put
32:59
on themselves to hitch something perfect that's gonna save the episode, and it may
33:05
not land, and then you just let like sit there beating yourself up,
33:07
going like idiot, I shouldn't have said, you know, and then you
33:08
get in your head and then you don't keep pitching. So we want to
33:12
take that pressure off. Know that no one's judging you, they're judging their
33:15
own bad pitches that didn't land, and just go. We do we do
33:21
like a group writing exercise because oftentimes a lot of shows, especially when they're
33:25
under the gun and behind schedule, will kind of brank and stein a script
33:30
together. They'll just say YouTube writers are doing actual and YouTube writers are doing
33:34
act two and so on and so forth, and then you have to put
33:36
it all together and make it cohesive. So we do a lot of those
33:39
kinds of exercises. We talk about difficult rooms, you know, we have
33:44
sort of a Cone of Silence class where we hear from some people about some
33:47
of the challenges they've based in challenging rooms. And how do you manage how
33:52
to get through it, how do you find allyeship? When is it time
33:54
to you know, leave, do you speak up? Do you not?
34:00
So those are those kinds of classes, and then we also do a simulated
34:04
writers room, which is like when we get into like facul so the writing
34:07
work and everyone is assigned as back of a show to write, and then
34:13
they have to get the deadlines that are expected in a real world circumstance.
34:15
So they come in and they pitch their story area for their episode okay and
34:21
a story where business happening in the B and C. And they have to
34:24
you know, write that, and then the next week they turn in their
34:28
bee cheeks, the next week they turn in their outline. They write their
34:30
script over Christmas break, and then they have one week to revise. So
34:35
we're looking to see if those writers can write strong material quickly under pressure.
34:39
But also we have everyone in the class read each other's material before they come
34:45
into class so that we can act like a writer's room, because it's one
34:46
thing to say, you know, do this, don't do that, and
34:49
it's another to put it into practice and see if someone is talking too much
34:53
and not giving anyone else send me space score. Someone had a good idea
34:57
and then got really long wind. They've been into this stop talking three minu
35:00
and it's adult. Or I can tell someone has something to say, but
35:02
they don't want to say it until it's perfectly articulated. We probably moved on.
35:07
So you know, it's just learning how to how to give feedback in
35:12
the collaborative, collaborative positive way, and take feedback in a non defensive way
35:15
and then be able to incorporate it into your material. So then how does
35:22
it? So that's that's the that's the writer's workshop, which all sounds fantastic.
35:25
If you want to be a television writer, yeah, I mean,
35:28
if you can get a lot, if you could be one of the a
35:31
I mean, that's pretty that's pretty awesome. Now the directing sete, how
35:35
does that work? So it's similar in philosophy of taking you know, directors
35:39
who have not directed episodic before, so they come from indie film or commercials
35:43
or music videos or whatnot. It's different in a few important ways. I
35:47
think the biggest distinction, and the reason for the distinction is that breaking into
35:52
episodic directing is leaving the hardest thing to do in the industry, even if
35:55
you've made features, because if you're you know, if you're a and you've
36:00
got your first job as a staff writer, you are one of many writers
36:04
on a staff and you're a low man on the totem pole, So you're
36:07
not expected to do the heavy lifting and say the episode. You're just there
36:10
to pitch ideas and keep the conversation going. But as the director of the
36:14
episode, you are the captain of the ship. So there is reluctance from
36:19
a lot of showrunners to give their five million dollar episode over to someone who
36:22
hasn't done TV before. So that's where we step in is to kind of
36:27
mitigate that risk, if you will. So so it's also application based and
36:32
the application will be open, I think it's January seventh to February sixth coming
36:37
up. To apply, you just need to upload up to three pieces of
36:42
material and then you know a personal statement and whatnot. And the other difference
36:47
is in the selection process. So we will review everyone's in material, decide
36:53
to what really excited about, meet the finalists. But at the same time
36:59
we also start talking to our shows and identifying which shows are open to a
37:02
first time director. We have several that have are really supportive. They've had
37:07
success with previous directors out of the program, so they're likely to say yes.
37:10
And then we also have many shows that are not supportive because you know,
37:15
for one reason or another. I mean, we do a lot of
37:17
big like superhero shows and genre at things with action and stunts and green screen
37:22
that not every emerging director has in their portfolio. But anyways, once we've
37:28
identified the shows that we'll support it, we would then matchmake and send each
37:34
showrunner three directors material and have them watch the material and have the showrunner meet
37:37
them, and if there's one out of that group that they want to support,
37:40
they let us know and that gets them into the workshop. But by
37:44
doing so, the showrunner is also guaranteeing them an episode on the upcoming season.
37:50
And the reason we do that it means that obviously not as many people
37:52
get in because we've sent them pre directors, they're only picking one. But
37:57
it's really important to us to not just be a shadowing program. There are
38:00
several directing talent you know, pipeline programs around and they all have value,
38:05
but some of them only offer shadowing, which is a great learning experience.
38:07
But we really wanted our workshop to lead to work and be a path,
38:13
right, and so less people get in, but those that get in know
38:15
they have a job with how many So how many submissions do you get and
38:20
how many actual directors get work? So we get less submissions than the Writer's
38:24
Workshop because as you imagine, not it costs money to direct things, so
38:30
not twenty five hundred people may not have lots of materials. So I would
38:32
say it's usually around like a five hundred mere depending on the year, and
38:37
in terms of how many people get in. It changes year to year because
38:42
it depends on how many people we get episodes for. I would say the
38:46
average is between six and ten. But again it changes year to year.
38:52
Again like COVID like threw us into a tizzy. We didn't do it last
38:53
year. It was you know, so it'll be interesting to see what happens
38:58
in the coming year. And then the workshop itself is a nine week masterclass
39:05
that we do like end of maya beginning or end of Mada end of June.
39:08
It's taught by two directors, Bethany Rooney and Mary Lee Bali, who
39:14
have over three hundred episodes between them, and they've written a book on episodic
39:16
directing, which is on our website. The book it's called Directors Tell the
39:22
Story. God, I gotta get them on the show. I got to
39:24
get them on the show. You should. It's it's a really great book.
39:28
Listen, I didn't go to film school, so I don't know you
39:30
know, I don't know lenses, I don't know any of that stuff,
39:32
and so it's it's a very approachable book. It's not a dry technical book.
39:36
There's a lot of anecdotes and what the book does is take you from
39:39
prep through posts like what is the process of episodic directing? So we use
39:45
that book as our curriculum. And again, the class is not directing one
39:47
oh one because everyone that's gotten in, we've watched the material, we know
39:51
their talent, and it's really about how is the meeting with TV different and
39:54
what do you need to know to be successful. We'll be right back after
39:59
a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. And you
40:07
have to be in and you have to be in LA for this as well,
40:09
and what you have to be in LA for this? Yeah, yeah,
40:12
but it's a shorter span of time. So we have had people who
40:15
just like get an airbnb for a month or you know, and so part
40:20
of the class, like the first few classes are lecture basically and using the
40:22
book, just kind of talking about the nuts and bolts. You show up
40:27
on day one of prep. What to expect? You go into a concept
40:30
meeting, who's running it? What do you expected to know? What do
40:32
you need to start thinking about the questions that are going to be asked of
40:36
you when you go on the textcout. These are the people who are going
40:37
with you in the tone meeting, you know, with the showrunner. You
40:42
know, that's your last opportunity to have sort of conversations, so kind of
40:45
breaking down that whole process. Will also have a script that we're working off
40:50
of for the duration. It's usually you know, some TV show that one
40:52
of them is directed in the past, so everyone will have homework of blocking
40:57
and shot listing and doing all the creative prep you would only do, you
41:00
know, character intentions and obstacles and themes and new tips. And then we
41:04
spend the last several classes putting scenes from that script on their feet. So
41:08
we work on one of our sound stages and bring actors in for the day,
41:12
and then every director gets a chunk of time to work the scene and
41:15
get it to where they want it, you know, in blocking and in
41:19
performance, and then then they will get feedback from Beth being Mary lou On
41:23
On a technical level, you know, how is your blocking they feel organic?
41:28
Did people get like boxed into a order? It was really weird?
41:30
Is it? You know? Was the more movement? And then how is
41:34
your coverage? Did you did you get all the shots you needed to,
41:36
did you miss anything? Did you cross the line? Is there possibly more
41:39
efficient way to get what you want by combining these two shots. That's going
41:43
to see you time in your day, and then they also get feedback on
41:45
a creative level, how are you collaborating with your actors? You know,
41:51
the trick in TV is that episodic directors are freelance. You're a guest director,
41:55
and so you kind of go from show to show. So you go
41:59
to a show that they have they have been working together for years, so
42:02
it's not your cast, it's not your crew. They know their role better
42:06
than you. So how do you find the balance between being the captain of
42:10
the ship and the leader and knowing what you want, making your days,
42:15
having a plan, having a vision, but at the same time being flexible,
42:19
you know, and in the case of the actors, you may have
42:22
you know, figured out the blocking in such a way that's going to fit
42:23
your shot list. But if you're after as instincts, tell them to do
42:27
something different that still works for the scene. What means you have to change
42:32
your shot list? Are you able to be flexible on the fly? You
42:37
know, you don't want to move them around like chess pieces and have them
42:39
feel like you're just this dictator. So we work on all of those kinds
42:44
of things, and then at the end of the workshop, we would arrange
42:47
a time for those directors to the shadow on the show they're going to be
42:51
directing, so they get to know passing through ahead of times, and then
42:53
they direct their episode and then they're off to the res. That's that sounds
42:58
again amazing. If you're a director out there listening, I would definitely suggest
43:02
you submit to both of these programs. Now, you obviously have over the
43:07
years have read a few scripts from young writers. What is the biggest mistake
43:12
you see young writers make? Oh my god, there's so many for me
43:16
and okay, so really like simple one is through reading, you know,
43:20
Uh, those are the worst. Uh, it's I mean it's like if
43:24
you're back, if you have tunnel vision, like just give it to someone,
43:27
give it to a friend, like just you know, it's it just
43:30
shows sort of like black and professionalism and not for lack of prayer, for
43:34
thank you professionalism. But I think, you know, sort of creatively,
43:37
I think I think I see a lot of on the one hour side,
43:45
you know, with say like genre shows or any sort of like world building
43:51
show. Uh. Two things. One is that you want to set up
43:55
your world really quickly and really cleanly, so I know the rules and I
43:59
under stand it. And then it's just the window dressing. And then you
44:02
get into your characters. Because it doesn't matter if we're talking being thrown or
44:07
we're talking you know, any other sort of big show. We're not watching
44:09
it for like dragons, right, maybe some people are, but we're watching
44:14
it for character that emptions is the relationships, right, And so a lot
44:19
of times you're either the world is not set up clearly enough and I'm going,
44:22
hey, I don't understand, like there's two universes and you know,
44:25
like that kind of a thing. I don't want to have to ask questions
44:29
or all it is is world building, and all it is is like set
44:34
pieces and action and genre. There's no plot of character, right, there's
44:37
no plot of character, right, right, right? Yeah, because I
44:39
mean, look, we've all seen dragons. We don't show up, you
44:43
know, We've all seen vampire shows. But like the reason they keep making
44:45
them is if you have a specific point of view and a different way of
44:49
doing a vampire show that's really aptivating, it can be successful. But if
44:52
it's not like he cares, Yeah, we've all seen we've seen vampires,
44:55
and we've seen vampires done very very well. Yeah, so yeah, it's
45:00
not just about the it's not the what I guess when the vampires really start
45:05
kicking back up, I mean nineties eighties, Well, there was interview with
45:08
the Vampire which was I think like yeah, Lost Boys and Near Dark and
45:14
that kind of stuff back in the eighties. But you know, it was
45:16
it was it was kind of like with it specifically with something like a vampires
45:21
It was novel back then. Yeah, and like ooh, a vampire script.
45:24
Now it's like a really another word. You've gotta you've got to really
45:29
take it to another place. Now. The same question goes for directors have
45:31
you seen a lot of director samples and things like that. Is there something
45:37
that you see constantly from young directors who submit that you're like, they just
45:40
don't understand this part or they did this wrong, you know, things like
45:44
that, or even just even even after the even after they get into the
45:47
program, even maybe they're extremely talented as directors, but they don't know how
45:51
to work the crew. They don't know how to work the set, they
45:52
don't know how to work the politics of it all. Yeah. Yeah,
45:57
yeah, a couple of things. I mean, I think so I have
46:00
a threefold answer. One is again a little similar, like it's the little
46:04
similar to the writer things, you know, that style over substance, you
46:07
know, like something that's like looks really cool and it got viuled and all
46:10
this stuff, but has no soul to it. Again, I still I
46:15
want it to look good. But but I again I'm watching it for the
46:20
characters, I think in terms of applying and this is not a mistake that
46:25
directors are make, but it's it's more just a challenge by virtue of what
46:30
you know, what we do at Warner Brothers, that there are sometimes really
46:34
talented filmmakers whose films just feel too tiny, you know too in deep and
46:38
I can see the value, but not every producer can. You know,
46:43
they can be a little myopic if it's just like you know, like quiet,
46:49
little dysfunctional family drama set in like nineteen twenties Kansas in one house and
46:53
whatever, and it's like great performance, but there's no scope to it.
46:57
I think again, it's not a mistake. It's just sort of knowing,
47:00
Okay, if you're playing to worder Brothers and look at the shows that we're
47:02
doing, correct off, there's often going you know. And it's not to
47:07
say you need to have like action sequences in your material, but I think
47:09
thinking about you know, cinematic quality and visual style, all of that can
47:15
go a long way. But you've got to play to your audience, like
47:16
who is my customer here? When I'm submitting stuff. If we're brothers,
47:20
is my customer, I'm not gonna I'm not going to give them the little
47:23
indie shot in one room unless it's extra I mean, it has to be
47:27
at a level that is so good that you just like, Holy Jesus.
47:30
But if you could show off a little bit of scope, like we could
47:34
put them on the flash, we could put them on one of those shows.
47:37
That's why we asked for That's where you ask for three samples. So
47:40
if you have one sample that is super tiny that like your performance isn't just
47:45
like amazing, and then you have another sample that shows, you know,
47:49
maybe you're a commercial directory the Brandy conton it's really like lick and stuff like
47:52
that. That's great, So we know that you can do that, and
47:54
you can do that. And then I guess the third piece of advice,
47:59
which I think is or for you know, writer directors in particular who you
48:04
know come from film and are used to you know that aw tour driven.
48:07
I am the sole creative voice on this. That doesn't work well in TV
48:13
because in TV it's a writer's medium. The showrunner is king. So while
48:16
yes, you are, like I said, the captain of the shop of
48:20
this episode, you are servicing another master. And so I think, you
48:23
know, when I fear about you know, a particular director on their first
48:28
episode or maybe it's not their first episode, but just like did not work
48:31
well with the crew and was sort of you know, was not collaborative.
48:35
It's that's something that I always tell people. It's like, if you're going
48:37
to get into this know that you are not that. Yes, you bring
48:42
ideas, but ultimately it's not your decision. But having said that, I
48:45
think there are a lot of benefits to indie directors working in television. Sustainability
48:52
of course, and like making learning Like you go, like if you get
48:54
like three to five episodes in a year, that takes up like read it,
48:58
five months and then you've made another money to live and you can go
49:00
spend the other part of your year working on your passion project. But I
49:05
think equally important is that what you get to do as an episodic director is
49:09
go from show to show and not a that means you're directing a lot.
49:15
You know, a lot of feature directors get to direct what once every couple
49:17
of years if they're lucky. You know, for a film you get to
49:22
you get to you're poning your craft and you get to continue doing it,
49:24
and you get to work in different genres with different halts and crew, with
49:29
different toys. You know. So everything you're doing on the episode on the
49:34
episodic side is going to make you better director on your own projects. Now.
49:37
You also you travel to a bunch of different festivals and you know,
49:42
markets and things like that, and I have to believe that you have been
49:46
because I've been approached this way. Uh, so I can only imagine what
49:50
you Once they find out who you are, they're like, oh my god,
49:52
do they Can you talk for everyone listening how not to approach We'll be
50:00
right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
50:08
Someone in the business, if you're just like that with that desperation that
50:15
I call it kind of a cologne that we can smell, kind of like
50:17
Jakar in the eighties. Yeah, you could just smell it. And it's
50:22
so off putting and it's so unprofessional in the way you do it. It's
50:27
like, I just met you, Hey, can you make my dreams come
50:30
true? I just met you. You don't know me. What do I
50:32
need to do for you to make my dreams come true? And that's generally
50:36
not the way to approach it. So can you explain maybe a horror story
50:39
that you have and how you should approach someone like yourself at these times?
50:44
Yeah? Actually, there was like one of the most awkward interactions that I've
50:46
ever experienced happened at Austin film. First of all, although this wasn't exactly
50:51
that but we were at a different mixer and it was I was standing with
50:55
two of my friends, one the writer, one an executive, weird talking
51:00
about a mutual friend, and this girl just kind of came into our surfale
51:04
I was like uh huh huh, like lapping along with us, like she
51:07
was like part of the conversation. She's like, wait, wait are we
51:09
talking about now? And it was like and she didn't introduce herself, and
51:14
she just sort of like inserted herself in a very very awkward way. And
51:19
I didn't have an ask of us, which I will, you know,
51:21
like I was happy about, but we were just sort of like we didn't
51:22
know what, like very energy who And she was like, oh, oh
51:28
yeah, I thought you were talking about this movie though We're like no,
51:30
no, no, we're talking about a friend of ours. O. Yeah,
51:31
okay, but like didn't didn't pick up on like it's like reading the
51:36
room, right, So that was very weird. But yeah, like there
51:40
are people who just I mean, I think in general, most people that
51:46
I have experienced, or at least when I meet them that at a festival,
51:50
are respectful, you know, especially like if I'm like if I'm leaving
51:53
a panel, and just like, I don't want to take too much of
51:57
your time. I just had like a quick question, how happy to do
52:00
that? Sure, I think it's really just or like at the Driscoll Bar,
52:05
which is like the hotel that everyone hangs out with at the end of
52:07
us it's like from four pm till you know, the wee hours, everyone's
52:10
just sort of like hanging out, which is great and again happy to have
52:15
those conversations. But it's like recognizing if uh, if you see someone that
52:20
you know you want to talk to and they are like in a deep conversation
52:24
with someone, maybe not the beat time to bedend, like find find your
52:29
moment right. And then again, if we're sort of in a more social,
52:32
relaxed atmosphere, just be mindful that we also just like we're happy to
52:38
have conversations, but we also want to like take a break from you know,
52:42
from time to time. So I think it's just you know, being
52:45
really respectful of people's time. I mean, most people I know, including
52:49
myself and my friends, are happy to give advice and ask you know,
52:53
but uh, you know, and then there are times where someone will say,
52:58
like, cause I don't work in development, so someone will say like,
53:00
oh, can they send you my pilot to see if Warner Brothers wants
53:01
to make it? And I'm like, I don't. I don't do that.
53:04
You know, oh, well, can you send it to someone?
53:08
And again like then that requires like me reading it and putting my my reputation
53:13
on the line, and you know, and there have been times that I
53:15
will send a person or a piece of material, but I think having that
53:20
ask come in that way like puts me to weird positions, right, And
53:23
also that ask from somebody you don't know, like if you've built a relationship
53:28
with them, you might know their work, or you might like all that
53:30
kind of stuff. It would be a little bit different then than someone just
53:35
walking up to you and like, hey, here's my script. Can I
53:37
go hand it to Samuel L. Jackson like like it's And that's where a
53:43
lot of people, you know, hopefully people not listening to the show.
53:46
Everyone listening to the show would not know not to do this. But but
53:50
a lot of times I've seen, look, people send me material like can
53:54
you help me produce my movie? I'm like, no, do you not
53:58
know who I am? That's not me. It's not what I do at
54:00
events or festivals, some people are like, hey, can you I know
54:04
that you interviewed, you know, Edgar Wright, can you get this script
54:07
to him? I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, dude,
54:09
no, Like, even if I could call Edgar up on the phone,
54:14
which I can't, I wouldn't do that because it's the exact same thing.
54:17
You like, I've got to read it. I've got to like it makes
54:21
come on yeah, And you know, listen, I have a lot of
54:24
sympathy for of course, you know, for for aspine writers and directors,
54:29
and especially when they are not in New York and LA, because I think
54:31
it doesn't I mean, even in New York and LA it can feel insurmountable.
54:35
But you generally may have some connections here or there. But you know,
54:38
again, when you go to festivals, you get people from all over
54:40
the country and world who just are like, how I do this? I
54:44
don't know how to figure it out. So I do have a lot of
54:45
sympathy and want to be helpful. But I think you know, to your
54:49
point, it's it's yes, like if you are trying to break in as
54:52
a writer a director, like do your research and figure out strategies and not
54:58
just like cast a why net to every person that you have ever come into
55:01
contact with. Yeah, the shot the shotgun approach doesn't really work. You
55:06
gotta be more you know, you gotta be more more surgical with yes,
55:10
and do you and do your research, do your homework. Don't pitch somebody
55:15
who does comedy a horror script like that's this is one on one. But
55:20
it's a lot of people. They're like so desperate. They're like, well,
55:22
you're in the business. I want to get into the business. Uh,
55:24
you're my opening, You're my way in. It's just weird. But
55:29
I wanted to put that out there for people listening because I think it's a
55:32
service that we need to do for young people coming up because look, I
55:36
look, I don't know about you, but when you were starting out,
55:37
I was starting out, I had I thought. I literally bought cases of
55:43
that desperation Jakar and I doused myself with it, and anytime I would go
55:47
to an industry party, you could literally just smell the desperation on me.
55:52
So I know what it feels like to be on the other side of that.
55:54
Uh. And that's why I'm so like, That's why I put That's
55:58
why one of the reasons I do the show the edge of gay people about
56:00
Yeah, don't don't do that. It doesn't work. You're doing I'm trump
56:06
doing the best that can. Now where can people go to submit to both
56:09
the Television Writers Workshop and the Director's Workshop. So we have a website.
56:15
It was all like so much of what I talked about, it more and
56:19
you know, as I mentioned, for the Writer's Workshop, we have you
56:23
have to write a spec to get in. We have a list of accepted
56:25
shows. Because it's not every single show on air because I'd be impossible,
56:30
but it's a really comprehensive list and we updated. We will updated by the
56:34
first week of January based on what's being canceled and what we need to add.
56:37
So that's on there. On the Director's Workshop side, we also have
56:40
a list for for shorts filmmakers, so like if you have if you've made
56:45
a feature, no problem, but if you've made a short, we have
56:46
sort of like the top you know, one hundred shorts like Academy qualifying Shorts
56:51
festivals. We just want to make sure people are not submitting, you know,
56:54
films that they made on their phone there unless they're Shaan Baker. But
56:59
you know so, uh so that is on our website, which I well,
57:07
you don't have to give it. Yeah, you go ahead, go
57:08
ahead. I'm gonna put it in the show notes anyway. But okay,
57:12
it's uh it's Television Workshop dot Warner Bros. Dot com. It's fair enough
57:17
and that it So there's like a contact does button so to you just have
57:21
like a general question that you know that I have an answer. You know
57:24
it goes to you know someone will want to that And all right, now
57:29
I'm going to ask you a few questions that I ask all of my guests.
57:31
What advice would you give a filmmaker or screenwriter trying to break into the
57:37
business today. I think, if it is the only thing that you want
57:46
to do, and I say this again as like Lacroberty, like a recovering,
57:52
recovering, struggling actor. So you know, if there's anything which is
57:55
like I don't need to be like prepare, like if there's anything else you
57:58
want to do, do it. But if you know that this is your
58:00
goal, you have to find a way to keep doing it. So if
58:02
you're a writer, it's even easier, like you just keep writing. You
58:07
have to, you know, And if you. You know, if you
58:12
can you find like a writer's group, you know, just a couple of
58:14
friends or colleagues that can keep you disciplined. So you know, you know,
58:20
I know, writers e deadlines. So if you know you're reading once
58:22
a month and you have to have a new draft, you have to have
58:24
a revision, we'll have to have a pitch. You know, you just
58:28
have to keep doing it. Even if you have a script that has been
58:30
very successful and gotten you lots of meetings, that's only going to work for
58:35
a couple of years, and you know three years later people are gonna want
58:37
new material. Will for you? I think you have to keep writing and
58:39
then directing. Yes, you still have to keep directing. It's so much
58:43
harder. I know, could it cost money? It costs a lot of
58:45
money to direct stuff. But if that's what you want to do, you
58:49
have to find ways to do it. And whether it's through you know,
58:52
branded content, or whether it's you know, promercials or you know, I
58:58
don't even know how you know how you find ways to direct. But again,
59:01
if that's your goal, you have to keep working at it. Uh,
59:05
It's the only way to get poone your skills and people are again gonna
59:09
want to see a new material, Like I don't want someone applying to the
59:13
director's workshop with something to me ten years ago. You know, I want
59:16
to see that you not have something that's super dated, but also have the
59:21
drive. This is this is what, this is your passion and this is
59:23
the only thing you want to do in your life. You've found a way
59:27
to make it work fair enough. What is the lesson that took you the
59:30
longest to learn, whether in the film industry or in life. Yeah,
59:39
don't compare yourself to other people's paths. Yes, and uh and I still
59:45
struggle about from time to time, you know, even even you know,
59:49
as I you know, made the switchermacting to to you know, go into
59:53
executive path. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now
1:00:02
back to the show. My pact was very zig zaggy. You know.
1:00:09
I had friends that I started at at my first agency job with who got
1:00:14
a job working for you know, ex producer or whatever, and that person
1:00:20
became their mentor and they just like championed them and they skyrocketed and now they're
1:00:23
like running you know, departments and stuff like that. And for me,
1:00:28
I never had that, you know, I, like I said, I
1:00:30
ended up a Mandeville Films even though I knew I wanted to work in TV,
1:00:32
but I was like, no, I'm gonna work at this feature company
1:00:35
and worked with the president, and then worked at a TV pod we just
1:00:37
didn't get anything made, and then went to Sunbands, which, like,
1:00:40
none of it sort of makes sense too well. And if like one other
1:00:45
job had come along or I didn't accept something way, maybe my path would
1:00:49
have been quicker, you know, because some you know, several of my
1:00:51
friends had much faster rises than me, and it was always so frustrating,
1:00:57
like why is it so long to get you know, why? Kid?
1:01:00
I worked for the boss, who's going to promote me? But having said
1:01:05
that, when I got this job at Warner Brothers, it was the culmination
1:01:10
and it was like all of my different experiences, having worked at Sundance,
1:01:15
running a talent pipeline program, having worked in TV before made me the perfect
1:01:19
person for that job and made the job perfect for me. So hindsight's twenty
1:01:24
twenty, you know, and don't compare yourself to other people, and especially
1:01:28
if you're a writer director, it's even you know, there is no one
1:01:30
right way to go about doing it. So just trust that you're you know,
1:01:34
on the right pop and keep working. It'll happen. Now, what
1:01:38
three pilots that every television writer should read? Oh god, I know there's
1:01:46
different genres, but is generally I mean the Friday Night Lights pilot I think
1:01:54
was just so perfect. I mean to say, like breaking down a nadma.
1:02:00
That's what everybody starts. But it's but it's but it's true. But
1:02:05
they're they're they're great pilots. The Wire Sopranos. Yeah, Dexter was a
1:02:10
great pilot. This was a good pilot, too. Lost was a good
1:02:16
pilot. I'm trying to think if there's anything more recently. I uh,
1:02:28
I think The Great is a great Violet. Uh, I don't know.
1:02:35
There's so many. Okay, that was good. We listened a bunch of
1:02:37
them. And lastly, three of your favorite films of all time? Oh
1:02:43
my god, it's like choosing among my children. Let's see Princess Bride Genus
1:02:52
Panthers. Oh so good, Heather's that's our generation though, that is so
1:02:59
our genera. I know. Oh man, what's the third? Uh?
1:03:08
Oh my god? Oh, I mean it's not going to be on your
1:03:15
gravestone, so you could just kind of no, I know, I know.
1:03:17
I'm like, do I go with like one of those movies that you
1:03:21
could just like watch over and over and over or something that's like important.
1:03:24
I don't just what No, yeah, because yeah, something like you know,
1:03:28
Citizen Kane and Seventh Summary was less right one of the best movies of
1:03:35
all time that I never want to see again. That's so sure. There's
1:03:40
some movies that you watch once you're like, I'm good, it was fantastic.
1:03:44
I never want to go down that road to get I think the one
1:03:47
like that's that fits that built the most is wrec Raem for a Dream.
1:03:52
That movie and I was like, I don't know what I just saw.
1:03:54
It was brilliant and I can't get those images out of my head ever.
1:04:00
But uh, I remember Pie what I saw. When I saw Pie too,
1:04:03
I was like, I don't need I loved it. I don't need
1:04:06
to see Pie again, Like it's just like, yeah, it's there's just
1:04:10
a density there. But but I want but failing you. I'm failing you
1:04:15
on this third movie. So I don't know. Uh uh Clu Clue,
1:04:28
I love, Oh my god, clue, please everyone listening, go watch
1:04:31
Clue. Uh the the great Tim kurrk Oh my god, Madeline Khan,
1:04:41
And I wish a studio would have the cojones to do what they did with
1:04:46
Clue and release three different and things in the theater at the same time,
1:04:54
so people were like, well, this is not the movie. I no,
1:04:56
I didn't and this way, and it would be oh my god.
1:05:00
It was such a brilliant marketing move. Why hasn't anyone done that? Again?
1:05:03
I don't know? Sorry, can I amend it? I can I
1:05:05
say one more? Which yet? I uh? That I think is like
1:05:11
one of Again, I don't they don't make movies like this anymore, goonies.
1:05:15
It's just a perfect adventure film with children that you know what I mean,
1:05:23
Like there hasn't been a movie like obviously we have kids the same age,
1:05:26
and it's like, I wish that there was a movie like that for
1:05:29
them. I just like, I don't think that there is like something smart
1:05:31
and fun and not like it's tough. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough
1:05:35
to find stuff like that anymore. I mean, And now we're sounding like
1:05:40
the two old farts in the room. They're like, uh, back when
1:05:43
we were kids, when back when we were kids. Recently, I don't
1:05:46
know. I really like the favorite. Yeah, that's good. That's good.
1:05:50
But Rebecca, thank you so much for being on the show. I
1:05:53
truly appreciate you. The work that you're doing God's work. You're bringing new
1:05:59
artists into the world and hopefully giving them ways to make a living in this
1:06:03
insanity that we call the film industry. So I do appreciate everything you do,
1:06:08
and thank you again for being on the show. Thank you so much
1:06:11
for having me. I want to thank Rebecca so much for coming on the
1:06:15
show and pulling back the curtain on the Warner Brothers writers and directors television labs.
1:06:21
I truly truly appreciate it, Rebecca. If you want to get links
1:06:24
to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes
1:06:27
at any film usco dot com forward slash seven thirty eight, and if you
1:06:31
have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and
1:06:36
leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot,
1:06:40
guys. Thank you again so much for listening. Guys. As always,
1:06:43
keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe out there.
1:06:46
And I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Indie Film
1:06:48
Hustle podcast at Indie Film hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
1:06:54
F I L M h U S T l E dot com.