Latest / Brewsers / Brewsers #384- Mike with Hawkley Brewing

Transcript

Brewsers #384- Mike with Hawkley Brewing · Brewsers

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: We welcome to Bruisers podcast about beer, coffee, booze and bruisers.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Roy John and today we talked to
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Mike who is the brewer at Hockley Brewing in Herndon, Virginia.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: We talked about Hockley Brewing, the beer scene, and so
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: much more. This is such a fun conversation.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Mike give me so much of his time and he
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: is definitely doing amazing things over there at Hockley, So
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: you definitely don't want to hear it from me, you
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: want to hear from him. So, without further ado, here
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: is Mike who is the brewer at Hockley Brewing. I
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: would like to welcome to the show Michael with Hockley Brewing.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: How are you doing today, sir good Man?
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Having a having a whole day? How are you?
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: I'm well. As we talked about right before we hit record,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: we woke up today and that's the that's the biggest step,
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: right exactly. Well for those listening, kind of paints a
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: word picture where you at and what's going on around you?
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Sorry, what was that? Now?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: You're good? For those listening kind of pene it's a
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: word picture where you at and what's going on around you?
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so at Hockley, we are located in Herndon, Virginia,
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: which is like ten minutes from Dullest Airport in about
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: a half an hour outside of DC.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Uh so we're kind of out in the suburbs, just
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: off one of the train lines. It's a really nice,
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: like kind of quiet community of people who work in
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: government or work in the city and came out here
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: to like race families and stuff like that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've been to DC multiple times and that traffic
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: is horrendous.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: So oh yeah, every morning I live, like on paper,
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: thirty minutes away from the brewery. But uh, it's a
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: crapshoot every morning. That's what time I'm gonna get here.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: That's fun. Well, let's go all the way back a time.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: What is your earliest memory of beer?
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm gonna be telling on myself a little bit here,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: but my earliest beer memory is probably it's gonna be
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: me as like seven or eight, were at a family
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: gathering and my grandfather snook me a sip of beer,
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: and so that's like the earliest memory of it was.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was bbr Okay, I was gonna say, oh, yeah.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Real Salt of the Earth family.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then yeah, it just it didn't it didn't.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: Take that time.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: Uh yeah makes sense, you know, come come high school,
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: it was a different story.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Well, my next question is what it was your gateway
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: craft beer?
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: So I think it's.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: It's gotta be either Magic Hat number nine or Sierra Nevada.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Asking Yeah, okay, okay, why why is that?
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I it's kind of a it's kind of a credit thing.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Like if half the time when somebody asked me, like
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: what are my favorite beers or like what are the
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: beers that means something to me? I always reach back
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: to Sierra Nevada pale as like the beer that kind
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: of spurred me into thinking that something could different. But
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: like the earliest craft beer I remember drinking is Magic
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Hat number.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Nine at like eighteen.
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: As a freshman in college, and like that kind of
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: introduced me to like, oh oh wait, beer's not just
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: like Keystone Light.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: And you know it's it's a real kind of like
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: it's a toss up.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: It's like what actually like turned my brain on to
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: craft beer as like the possibilities of a beverage.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Right, So, like as a kid, it was just like, oh,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: what tastes good?
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: And what's gonna you know, what's gonna get me a
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: little sideways on a Friday night. And then for you know,
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: like when I continue to think about Sierra, that's like
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: that's a really it's like, oh, okay, this is what
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: beer can be.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that has been for me. The number one
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: answer I've gotten from most people is Sierra and er
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Ravada Palo. It's it's crazy that it's touched that many
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: people nationwide.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: Well, it's just so simple and consistent, like you know,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: it's the same as all the big macro guys, but
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: it's just you can kind you.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Can taste the the love in it, I guess, you know,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: like or what is what?
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: Does Grossman saying that the family owned, operated and argued
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: over on all the all the bottles of the hands,
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: So like you know, you can feel that in it.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: It has a soul to it.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, like you said, you taste the love
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: in it. So where when did you decide you wanted
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to get into brewing yourself? Because I've read that you
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: have been brewing for twelve years now, which is very impressive.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: So where was your kind of decision of you know what.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I love this? How do I get into this now?
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean the answer is I made the millennial
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: mistake of making my hobby a job.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: But it really it goes back to.
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: Basically college, because that was like I was in college
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: from two thousand and six to twenty ten, which was
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: kind of a big heyday for craft beer breweries trying
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: new weird stuff. Like that's the era of when like
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: bud Light, Lime and all that stuff came out and
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: everybody was doing kind of wacky shit. And so I
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: got into beer, like into crafty stuff then. And I
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: worked through high school, college and then a while after
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: I worked in the theater, so I got to travel
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: around a bunch and I got to meet a ton
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: of people who were like tons of the like I
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: worked in scene shops. I was a welder and rigor,
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: so I got to work with all these guys who
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: were really hard workers and really engineer minded, and they
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: all a bunch of them made beer at home, and
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: so that was like, Okay, this is cool. So I'm
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: getting to try new stuff not only whenever I go
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: someplace new, but these guys are making weird shit in
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: their garages that I get to try too. Yeah, and
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: that kind of turned it on for me, and it
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: got to a point where I was ready to get
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: out of that industry and I didn't know what I
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: wanted to do, so I kind of went on the
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: old fallback of working in a bar, working in the kitchen.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: I was like, well, I've.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: Been doing this homebrew thing.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: You know, maybe there's a brewery that's like looking for
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: somebody to wash kegs or fill cans. At the time,
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: bottles because cans weren't cans weren't popular yet. So I
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: just one day I was clicking around through jobs on
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: Craigslist and I was like, you know what.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Fuck it.
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: I found this little brewery that was looking for an
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: assistant brewer and I just kind of had a six
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: pack and dumped my heart into this cover letter with
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: no beer, like no professional beer experience or anything like that,
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: and they called me back. I got an interview, I
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: took some homebrew with me. Arguably it was not great,
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: but it was something.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: That they saw.
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: They they saw something, so they hired me. And that
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: was the twenty end of twenty thirteen.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's wild, so okay, So what did why were
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: you wanted to get out of the theater.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: The theater. The theater industry is really.
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: Really tough, Okay, it's it's an industry that you know,
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: thrives on people who.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: You know, are passionate about what they do.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: And on the on the technical side, everybody has a
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: craft that they're really passionate about. Like I still I
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: keep up on my metalworking now and like still enjoy
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: doing that.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: But they will take that and be like, oh, you
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: really like this, you should be.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: Really happy to have this job, so we're gonna pay
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: you next to nothing that we're gonna work you until
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: you fall over.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and like when you're twenty one.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: Twenty two, you know, you you're it's like, oh my god,
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: this is so cool that I get to do this
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: as my job, and like I get to put up
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: a show and people come out and like they get
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: to see it and experience it in this big it's
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: this big spectacle, you know, and five years later you're
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: just like, fuck, I can't put all this effort in
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: to building this set and then six weeks later chop
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: it up and throw in the dumpster. And you know,
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: it's this kind of there's a lot of this really
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: false pressure on it where we have to hurry up
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: and get it done. It's gotta be top notch one
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: hundred percent, and you have to break neck and you're
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: gonna work ten hours.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Twelve hours day and you're.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Gonna be thankful for it, and you're gonna be hunting
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: for a new gig every ten to twelve months unless
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: you get super lucky and get into like an educational
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: institution or get a job as at like a residential
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: spot where you can just have that job forever.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: And those jobs are so.
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: Few and far between, then like it just becomes a
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: brutal grind and I just I just couldn't do it anymore.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Makes sense. Who did you make contacts with or like
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: kind of come around that later you saw them, like
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: maybe on a bigger stage or even a big and
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: you're like, holy shit, I can't believe that person is
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: you know, doing that?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Sorry say that again.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Who did you kind of come across that you they
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: they're now doing way bigger things, whether it be on
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: stage or behind the scenes or even like in front
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: of a big camera.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: You know, I honestly I didn't run across a lot
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: of people.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: On the front side.
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: Of things, like on the actors side of things, like
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: I did get to work. I got to work with
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: a lot of really well established actors, like I got
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: to do a show with Manny Patankin, I got to
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: do a show with Elba.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: How in a show that I did.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, is Adris Elba just as attractive in person as
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: he seems on screen?
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Oh my god? Absolutely? And this this was in like
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: twenty twelve, so he was still like.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Peaked right right, that's I know. He did a kickboxing
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: He did one met or fight once. I don't know
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: if that was the same time or not. It may
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: have been later, but I know he did one and
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, that's insane.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: I mean he at the time looked like he could
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: run through a brick wall, So I don't doubt it.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, how much of your metalwork do you kind
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: of I mean, like you said, you kept up with it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: How much is it do you do it in the brewery?
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Is there anything that you're like, Oh, I got this,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: this is no problem at all.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's been it's been a bunch. Honestly.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: My first the first brewery that hired me, after about
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: six months, the head were left and they put me
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: in charge, which I was absolutely not ready for no,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: and they were expanding into like the production facility, so
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: I did a bunch of metalwork for that, like piping
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: and brewhouse platforms and stuff like that, and like getting
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: everything place to put together. And then it's been kind
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: of hit and miss throughout the middle because I've worked
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: for a lot of really like nicely put together, well
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: established breweries throughout the middle of my career, and then
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: coming here to Hock League, I inherited a space that
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: had been two other breweries before me, right, and the
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: one that was immediately before us just beat the.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Dog shit out of the equipment.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: So I had to do a ton of like maintenance,
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: and like the most metal worky thing was rebuilding and
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: re welding all of the mash rakes and the motor
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: in in the water time because I couldn't. It would
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: turn on and the motor would run and then die
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: because there was just so many broken parts and unlubricated
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: bits in it that a bunch of parts had snapped
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: and broken.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: So that was a really fun time getting.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Into a kettle that I just about barely fit through
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: the man ways, and then having a welder in there
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: and having a mask on and just being really back
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: in a crazy little space to rebuild all this stuff,
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: but eventually got back together running well.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Well, So I did read that, Yeah, you guys have
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: taken over, like you said, the brewery before you guys,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: and there was a brewery before that. How much of
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: the like you said, some of the equipment was there?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Was kind of like you all came in and just
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: bought the whole place. Or did you guys already do
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: you have to bring stuff in or how was the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: transition for you?
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: So the transition was interesting, okay because the company that
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: was here before us had been leasing everything from the
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: original brewery.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: That was here. Oh wow, and they had not been
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: paying them. They had not been paying their suppliers. Oh no,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: that yeah, the whole.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: My second week, I had a wrapped from a keg
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: company come in repossess all the kegs that were in
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: the building.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Oh Jesus.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he came in and he came in all hard
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: and tough, and I was like, okay, dude, you can
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: take him.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: That just means I don't got to clean him.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's on you now.
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: And then I had another supplier that I've worked with
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: for years and years and years. I reached out to
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: order some stuff from them, and you know, normally everything's
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: done like email communications, and then I got I got
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: a phone call.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, hey, man, what's up. And he goes,
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: you're not working for this brewery, are you?
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: And I was like, oh, no, we're opening a new place,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: like we're just taking over the space. He goes, okay,
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: because this address has a flag on it. He owes
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: us like six grand whoa.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: So it was navigating a bunch of that stuff for
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: the first month or so and just getting the equipment
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: back up to a really good professional standard, right. Uh.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Because there was the guy who was here before me.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: He's a really nice guy.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: I've met him, and I understand why he let things
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: slide because he stopped getting paid.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so things went by the wayside.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: But yeah, it was just it was just a lot
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: of a lot of deep clean and a lot of
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: break and everything apart putting it back together and.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Getting it in like getting it ship shape.
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: But that's you know, I think that's super important because
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: now I know how I know how every piece of
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: equipment in this like in my brew house works. When
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: I didn't have an sop or a manual or anything
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: to come into So getting that deep and intimate with it,
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: like I know it backwards and forwards, and that's super
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: super helpful.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's super important too, because, like you said,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: this is your place now, so you've got to know
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: how all this stuff works, whether you you can't be
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: like okay, like you said, with the the engine turning
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: on and then all of a sudden turning itself off,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: like that's not good.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that you like, one of the things that
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: we really really rely on in the brewing industry is
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: knowing our equipment and knowing how it's going.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: To act and.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Having it be reliable so we can trust it so
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: we know that every single time we brew something, it's
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: going to do the exact same thing, because we need
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: to make sure that the final product is super consistent
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: so that like customers know what to expect, right, And
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: when my equipment does a different thing every brew day.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: That's a problem, yeah, to say the least. Well, So,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, so how many so how many brewers have
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: you worked at? Now?
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: I have worked for.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: This is my seventh okay, So when you I mean,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: like you said, you came in as an assistant brewer.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: We weren't ready for that, but you did it. But
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: then the guy left and so all of a sudden
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you were in charge. Where what do you think you
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: learn the most from that one? And then we'll go
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: we'll go along the other ones. What you've learned from there?
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I learned how to make mistakes there, Like I like,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: like I said, I was not ready to just be
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: on my own doing it, like I can kind of
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: fudge my way through stuff, but I fucked up a lot.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: And you know, I always try. I always found a
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: way to fix things, but it was just like five
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: times harder than it needed to be. And like that
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: company wasn't doing super great anyway they are they no
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: longer exist, which you know, that's pretty normal for this industry.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: But that was just that was learning how to make
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: mistakes and not.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: And and make those mistakes learning experiences and not just
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: get mad about them or get frustrated about it. Right,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: And so it's like, okay, if this thing up, okay,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: I won't do that again.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: How do I fix it? And that's that's like what
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: I learned through that whole process.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's life. Really, you just got to
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: learn to go with it and be like, Okay, this
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: fucked up? Yeah, how do I learn from it and
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: not do this again?
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: And you know, anybody who says they're absolutely perfect and
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: everything they've ever tried is.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Lying to you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's everybody. Everybody does something wrong at some point,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: Like you just got to own it. You're who are
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: you impressing by saying, no, I never I never screw
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: anything up. I've never had to dump a beer Like Okay,
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: so either you're some kind of superhero or you're pushing
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: out some bad beer to people.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: Which one is it?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know that's that whole thing answer.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: It was the it was a big learning experience.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, so then you were you at hegbrewer at
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: every place you went to or because once you get
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: that one, that title that you know, I imagine there's
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: other people that are like, oh, you're the head brewer there,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: do you want to come be the head brewer over here?
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Well, so it kind of it. It depends on the scale.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: So that brewery was a little small.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: In the it was a little group of in the basement.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: We had a two barrel system made out of old
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: dairy parts.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: And then we built five barrel brew house and built
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: it up so it was a little bit bigger. And
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: after that I moved to a big regional brewery and
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: the brewhouse was sixty barrels, fully automated, goddamn four vessels.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: Like it was a big like Cadillac of the system.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: It was great.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: And like that job taught me, taught me about production.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: It taught me about all like the big scale stuff
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: and like all the equipment that goes.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: With it, getting it right the first time in the
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: same time every time after that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly so, And I went as just a production
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: brewer there and kind of and it up in a
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: more kind of like R and D position before I left,
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: because that company was doing a lot of when I
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: got When I got hired, they were working on like
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: a big restructure of the company and they were trying
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: to get regain relevance in the market at the time
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: and transition from being a bunch of group hubs to
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: just being a production brewery. And so the head brewer
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: at the time and myself I'm responsible for kind of
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: like modernizing the beer, bringing in new recipes and kind
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: of getting getting things back on track for them. And
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: so this is at the beginning of the Hayes craze.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: So we were the first ones to put a hazy
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: ip a through that brewery. I've been on the logger
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: like the hey, we got to make good craft blogger
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: things since then they didn't listen to me.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: But that's their problem mine.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: I ask your thought process on that because I have mine,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: but I want to know what yours is.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: On laggers.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like, why people need to make good laggers?
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: Well, so you have to make a good logger because
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: there's nothing to hide behind a bad lagger. Everybody's gonna know.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: It's got to be front to back, damn near perfect.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: You can have, you know, you can have some little
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: recipe and balances and stuff like that that you try
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: to tweak out of it, but if your process isn't
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: on point, everybody's gonna know. And that does disrespect to
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: a very long tradition of beer making.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: And like.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: These old world styles that people are really getting into
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: now have are older than the thought of the United States,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: like as a concept, So you can't fuck that up
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: because anybody who knows will know immediately.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: If something's off right.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: And you know I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: here and say there aren't a little like ingredient and
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: process tricks you learn from making these things that make
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: brewing them easier. But at the end of the day,
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: it's got to it's got to taste and smell and
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: feel a very specific way. And if it doesn't, everybody knows,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: Like anybody who knows will be like, oh, yeah, I know,
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: you gotta try this one again, homie, like this.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So I've had brewers tell me that it's like
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: going to a donut shop. If you get the glaze
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: donut and it's not good, the rest of them are
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: not gonna be good either. So, and you said you
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: can't hide anything in the longer, Yes, it might take longer,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Like you said, you might learn some tricks on how
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: you can make it shorter, brew a little better, but
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: you can't hide nothing. You can hide stuff in an ipa,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: you can hide stuff in a stout. You can't hide
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: anything in the longer. So if you're going to a
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: brewery and they have a bad logger, the rest of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: them aren't going to be that great either.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know it's I'm not going to say
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: it's easy to brew.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Good logger, right exactly. That's why it takes.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: It takes a lot of learning. And you know sometimes,
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: I mean I still make mistakes. I still, you know,
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: get things that aren't quite right. But if if something
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: is not quite right, I won't tell it as that
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: style that I was going for. You know, I'll I'll
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: make a little adjustment, I'll dry hop it, or I'll
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: throw some fruit in it and sell it as like
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: something a little different so that I'm not promising one
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: thing and delivering another.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Right, right, Okay, I love that. So what is the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: beer scene like in Virginia? Like in the DC area.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I've heard there's a lot of different breweries out there,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: and I mean I imagine they're all kind of doing something
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: a little different. But what is the what is this
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: scene like?
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: So it's it's different than what I'm used to, Okay,
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: it's it's good.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: Like we're the new guys on the Like we're the
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: new brewery on the block.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. March March twentieth was the first day.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: And you know, I kind of have a little bit
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: of something to prove the folks around here, because you.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Know, Yankee coming down to the South and just you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: trying to trying.
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: To get stuff made. And a lot of the folks
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: around here have been doing it for a while. A
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: lot of the brewers are fairly established. We've had we've
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: had a pretty big shrinkage recently over the last year,
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: had quite a few places close, which is always a
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: bummer for the folks who worked there, and people always
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: like poured themselves into it. But I you know, as
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: much as it hurts me to say, I think that's
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: better for the industry in the long run, because if
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: your business model isn't up to snuff, or your beer
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: isn't up to snuff, you know, you just got to
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: make way for.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know if that's the right
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: way to.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: Say, you know, if it's not working, especially now when
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: consumers are more educated than they were ten, twelve, fifteen
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: years ago. To outcraft beer, yep, you can't kind of
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: sneak one over on them. So our consumer base is
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: more educated and they know more about beer, so they
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: know when they know what good beer is now and
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: people are being really selective with how they spend their money.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well, yeah, with prices beer is cheaper than gases.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So like those memes say, don't drive, just drink.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you really gotta be you got to be
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: on point all the time. Two make sure people keep
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: coming back. It's it's no longer good enough to be
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: the brewery that's around the corner from my house, or
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: it's no longer good enough to make you know, really
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: niche beer nerd beers and not offer anything else.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: So this contraction that I think is it is hitting
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: a lot of people, but I think it's largely overblown
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: by the big guys.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: And we can get into that later if you want.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: But go for it. Oh yeah, go go for it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: I think. So it's everything's in.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: Everything's a narrative now, right, Everything's got to be a story.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: It's got to be. It's not news anymore. It's not
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: a trying. Everything has to be.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: A narrative, right, and everything's a headline. There's no one
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: cares about the story itself.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Right, right, And so at CBC this year, the narrative
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: was a little tainted by the losses that the really
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: big guys are seeing. And it's not necessarily you know,
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: when you're dealing with big corporate entities. Unrealized revenue might
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: not necessarily be a loss. It's just funny. You thought
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: you were gonna make it it didn't, which you know,
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: we got to as an industry and as consumers and
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: stuff like that. Really think about the phrasing that these
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: places used to be, like, oh, yeah, we didn't hit
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: our we didn't hit our projections for our shareholders, you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: but we're still you know, one of the biggest craft breweries.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: In the country, you know, it's it's one of those
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: things like.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: And so a lot of the guys in the middle,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: at the regional size, so like they're doing you know,
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: maybe fifteen to fifty thousand barrels a year that are
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: heavily reliant on distribution.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Those guys are the ones.
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: That are really, really, really hurting because they don't have
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: the size to get prices like big scale prices where
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: you can knock all the prices of your grain and
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: your hops and your packaging, and you can knock all
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: those prices down because you're.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: So big that everybody has to deal with you.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: But you're not so small that you can rely on
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: tap rooms to sell your beer. So you're at the
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: mercy of distributors, and unless you have like a crack
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: sales team who is going out and really pounding the
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: pavement and getting you into bars and getting you into
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: grocery store.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Placement.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Stores, the bottle shops all those Yeah.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, then you're just gonna get You're just gonna
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: get pansed.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Is you're not.
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: You know, if you're say a regional brewery in Virginia
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: and you're trying to sell your beer in Tennessee, why
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: the fuck does anybody in Tennessee give a shit about
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: your beer?
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Tennessee.
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: He's got really great local beer, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: and people are looking for you know, it's it sounds
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: kind of millennial to say, but people are still looking
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: for authenticity and just a label on a shelf for
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: a handle at a bar that's not that's not good
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: enough to keep the lights on anymore. You know, you
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: have to connect with your customers, and you can't do
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: that from five states away.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: So those guys, and.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: I feel for them because there's a lot of really
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: good people running those breweries and making that beer, and
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: it sucks to see them get hit so hard. But
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: there is also a lot of really good secondhand equipment
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: on the market right now.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: You know, I can't, I can't you all do and gloom.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: You're right. I mean, just because like let's say, three
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: different breweries in one city didn't work out, that doesn't
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: mean that, like there's certain pieces to each one that
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: might come together to form another brewery, maybe in the
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: same city, that it could be one of the biggest
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: breweries that nobody's even heard of. So like they're exactly
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: just because some of these are closing, doesn't mean they're
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: all going to be bad or's not bad for everybody. Well,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: so obviously we are seeing, you know, the fluctuation like
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: we're talking about of breweries, and some breweries are getting
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: also bought up by the Big three, and which is
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: also unfortunate because most of the time they don't know
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: what to do with it, even though they make the
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: sets and all the grocery stores and most liquor stores
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and everything, but like where do you But and then
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: also we then see them drop them, and so it's
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: like what are we what are you supposed to do
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: with these people? So what what do you kind of
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: see the I mean, you've been this scene for almost
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: thirteen years now, so what do you kind of see
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: you know, the scene looking like not not just nationwide,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: but like, you know, like you were talking about, how
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: does the state, like let's say, in Virginia get people
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: excited in maybe Utah or even here in Texas well.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: See, I think.
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: There's no one size fits all answer for that exactly.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: One of the biggest things that I've found, and having
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: bounced around a bunch, is that you really have to
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: you really have to take your audience into account, right. So,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: like it's something that I didn't really think about really
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: really deeply until I got here, Okay, because prior to
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: prior to being in Virginia, I was in New York City, right,
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: and the the beer scene is just primed for things
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: that arempletely different there than they were here than they
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: are here.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: So I think what brewers.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Need to.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Need to think about is.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: It's not necessarily all about like, oh, what do I
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: like as a brewer, what do I want to make
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: as a beer? You know, because that's that might not
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: be what your customers like. And you know, in Virginia,
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: a beer that I our number one is a hazy IPA.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: Of course it's always gonna be. And our number two
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: cellar is our black Lagger. I genuinely thought I was
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: gonna make that blacklogger and sit on it for five
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: months and have to like throw it at people for
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: a discount. But it's been flying out the door. And
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: in New York it was a fight to get people
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: to drink black Lagger. Same thing with half of Avison.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: We have our half of Ison is our number four
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: right behind our Hellas, So you know, everybody's like in
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: they're they're on the beer train.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: But like in New York City, a half it it moved, but.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: Not like here, Like I have grouped three batches of
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: a half of ice in here in the two months
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: we've been open.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Wow, So it's like it's it's.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: More popular here And I don't know, you know, I
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: can probably credit.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: A little bit of that to.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: You know, ab having a big presence in the state
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: and they bought they were when they became uh anhazard
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: bush InBev. They brought Hogarden over here and they made
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: a big push when they did that to get Ogarden
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: out to everybody. So people are familiar with the flavor profile.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: So like I think for for Texas, and I haven't
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: been in a few years. So forgive me if I'm
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: talking out of school. You guys got shiner down there.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: So people are primed for a Shiner bock, for the
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: that grape fruit ruby rattlers thing that they have. Yeah,
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: so like a craft brewer shouldn't shy away from that. Like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: if that's what your customer if that's what your customer
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: base knows and likes, and you're trying to get them
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: away from the bigger guys, offer them something really similar
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: that's made just as well, that's the same and consistent,
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: so they'll come back and have yours, because you can
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: be behind the bar talking to them and walking them
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: through it, or you can have you know, if that's
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: something people aren't comfortable with as brewers, which I know
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: a ton of people aren't. You know, you have a
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: really well trained staff so that when the customer comes in,
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: your staff know, okay, cool, they like you know, they
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: like Shiner bock. I have these two options that they
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: could try, and then we'll get them in again trying
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: or stuff.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean that's exactly it. I mean obviously,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I mean you've seen it probably so many times where
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: people who aren't normally into craft beer, but they like beer,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: so they'll come in and be like, what do you got?
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: This's like bud Lighter, cors Light or whatever the hell.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: And so that's when you give them whatever it is.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But and then also like like when Yngland got here,
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: it wasn't for us, it wasn't that big of a
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: well especially not for me. It wasn't a big deal.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Like I've had stuff like I've had yingling before. It
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: was fine, it's whatever, but just could like, but people
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: brought it here. So when we actually got it fully here,
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: it was like, oh, okay, and what else you got?
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: But then like you get breweries, like so we have
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: a Martin House here, which is their staple. Beer is
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: absolutely fantastic. Their scouts are incredible, their IPAs are amazing.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: They make really great loggers. But then they also make
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: shit like mayonnaise or ranch or pizza beers or just
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: just that weird hype beers. But they fucking work like
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: they taste exactly like they're supposed to.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: Know.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: You don't want a full glass of a mustard beer,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: but you taste it because you're like, oh, I kind
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: of want to know what the hell that tastes like.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: But then they make it, you know, pickle beer, and
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: now it's like their number one cellar and they have
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: like six different kind of pickle beers. So like you
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: just sometimes you never know, like you said.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and I think pickles are having a renaissance
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: as as just.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: A thing right now that you know everywhere. Yeah, yeah,
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: of course. And I think I I fucked up.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: I fought the idea of a pickle beer at my
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: last brewery, Tooth and Nail, and I was like, no,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: I'm not fucking making that.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: It's not going to move. And I was wrong.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: They're making one now and you know it doesn't move fast,
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: but they move through it and people like it.
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: And I was just like, okay, that's on me.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: That's wrong, right, You're wrong.
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: And you know, I don't think I'll make one here,
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: but I will certainly buy a couple of cases of
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: the little pickle juice shot things and sell it as
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: a combo wither.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: You know, if that's going to get people doing it,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: I'll do it.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, you've seen so many trends come through. I mean,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: obviously the Northeast is going to have something different than
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: you say, you're in the South. As someone who's fully
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: in the South. I don't quite say Virginia is the South,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: but you know, we'll say, you know, we'll say Virginia
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: is the South. But you've seen the trends kind of
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: come and go whether no matter what coast you're on,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: even in the middle. What do you kind of see?
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously we're on a logger renaissance right now,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: which I love, But where do you kind of see
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: the next trends that you've seen come along?
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Oh? Man, I think.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: I think we're going to keep pushing the logger stuff
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: for a little while and start kind of bending the
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: definitions of the laggers, like like what happened with IPA
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: when everybody started, when IPA got huge and.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: B JCP added all the new categories.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: You know, I think we're gonna see people pushing those
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: buttons and kind of testing the limits of logger like
• 39:13
  Speaker 4: they did with IPA.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: And you know, I think it's I think we're kind of.
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: Out of a period of trends, if that makes sense,
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: or actually out of.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: A period of fats there.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: It is like.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Because like I said before, I think customers and I
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: say this as a peer consumer myself, are looking for
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: something consistent and reliable, and I don't I honestly don't
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: see many people chasing that fat stuff. Everybody's kind of
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: keeping it, keeping it simple, right, And I think that's
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: simplicity because even with i pas, you're seeing the hazys,
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: they're much more they're not as complex as they used
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: to be. People have kind of streamlined their recipes to
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: make them work. And then we're seeing a lot of
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: West Coast, Like West Coast i pas out here on
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: the East Coast are making a comeback, like people are
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: looking for that you know, kind of dry finishing, like
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: hoppy beer that's got some betterness to it, it's got a
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: back one to it, but it's balanced, right, And so
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: I think that's kind of what we're looking at over here.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: We're really seeing the like the fruited stuff drop off
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: a cliff.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Oh really okay, and I.
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: Think customers are going to continue to look for lower
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: ABV options that.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So the mini beers I've noticed is definitely becoming
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: a bigger or small beer is definitely become a a
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I think, a bigger category than we used to see
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: before because obviously we're seeing so much with the non
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: alcoholic become bigger than it's ever been, which I think
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: is fantastic. And then obviously you're gonna have the fucking
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: guys that are gonna barrow age of stout that all
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: of a sudden you're kind of twenty three twenty four
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: percent shit. So but I think that that there is
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: still kind of, you know, as much as michelob Ultra
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: can be number one beer in America depending on if
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Modela or bud Light's done something stupid or not. But
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: you know, it's, uh, it's just that one's always fluctuating.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: But I think there is kind of that weird category now,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: the where between the point five which is the NA
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: and then like a three, which I think is like
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: the lowest were like Shina for the most part is
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: a four four five, But there's a category in the
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: middle now that people kind of are starting to lean
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: more toward. I haven't seen it as much in the
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: craft beer scene, which I'm very curious if that one's
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: going to take off or not, but I've started to
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: see it more in like the mass like scenes as well.
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we got this company up here that Bruce here
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: in Virginia. I think it's called Dad Beer, And yeah,
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: it's all two point nine it's all two point nine
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: percent shit. And like I met one of their sales
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: reps the other day and he gave me a couple
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: of samples, and like, you know, it's not necessarily it's
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: all I p a's right now, you know, it's not
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: necessarily my thing.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: But it's really well made.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Like it doesn't taste like you know that that wave
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: of like session ip as we got a few years
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: ago where everything kind of tasted like water. It doesn't
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: have that kind of character to it where it's all
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: flabby and kind of boring. Like they're doing a really
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: like really good job of honing in the science of
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: those low alcohol beers that.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: I think is really cool.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I know, and that also kind of speaks
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: to our customer base, Like a lot of our bases
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: getting older and they can't drink like they used to,
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: but they don't want to drink like they used to.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: That's the other thing. They don't want to drink but
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: they used to. Yeah.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And so.
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: If that's what we gotta do to like to do that,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: like to keep those people buying our product, then yeah,
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: let's do it. Let's do it for the best of
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: our abilities, because that's something that Craft has always been
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: really good at.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: You know, not not every.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: Hit is going to be a home run, of course,
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: but eventually we'll get we'll get people around around the
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: diamond and we'll have like, yeah, okay, now we're consistently
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: making these really good like craft style nas and low outs.
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: And I think that also opens up options for old
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: world beers that existed, like table beer is a thing,
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: and like low ABV English pub ales are a thing
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: to where they're like three and a half percent, and
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: you get field beers from Belgium that are two and
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: a half to three and a half percent, and they're
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: super intes and flavorful and fun. And it's not it doesn't.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: All of these things don't have to be a two
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: point nine percent I PA. They can be a two
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: point nine percent.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Says On.
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: That's just gonna be as fun and as interesting to
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: people and offers a little bit more of a variety
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: and range of beer so people don't have to drink
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: the same thing.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: All the time.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, one crazy I did from Europe. I don't
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: think it's gonna take off over here is room temperature beer.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: I think Americans we are very much went a cold
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: beer and it's not one of those like you're at
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: a pub watching a football match where you're drinking room
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: temperature beer.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's always been I don't I don't think that's.
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Ever gonna happen, as much as I want it to.
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: Like I've got I've got a cast line that I've
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: built into the bar. We haven't fired it up just yet,
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: but I would really I am a fan, like I am.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: A fan of those like pub beers, right, I'm.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, like a four and a half percent
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: SB that you can have eight or nine pints of
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: and not fall over dead, you know, And it's not
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: it's because it's about with those beers and like that,
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: like UK pub tradition, it's about community and it's about
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: going down to the corner and seeing your neighbors, seeing
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: your friends.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: And hanging out.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: Like the beer is just kind of a thing that's there,
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: and it's more like the community orientation of the pub
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: I think is something that's missing from American bar culture.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I can see that.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And so.
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: If I can't have my fifty two degree beer, maybe
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: I can have, you know, people that come down and
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: it's it's kind of like cheers where you see the
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: same folks and you know, you get to you you
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: need to feel like a part of something rather than
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: just like going down to the bar having six bud
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: lights while you watch a basketball game and then suck it.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Off, you know, like something that's a little more community oriented.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there is definitely pockets that have that. I think
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: obviously depending on where you go and what kind of
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: brewery it is, but yeah, there are definitely pockets of
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: places where it is their neighborhood bar because they're either
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: you know, not an alcohol person, or they just like beer,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: or you know, maybe that's just a close thing to
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: their house, whatever it is. But yeah, I imagine that
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: they're definitely pockets in America that that's where it is. Yeah.
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: I think like bringing back that that feeling of the
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: old neighborhood bar, yeah, is another thing that like.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: We can do for our customers.
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: So, like, I think that that could also be that,
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: you know, it's not necessarily a product trend, but I
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: think it it could be a tasting room tap room
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: kind of trend. Is that making it feel to use
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: the cliche, like a third space for people? Yea, and
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: I say that, knowing all of the baggage that that
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: phrasing comes with and all of the people who have
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: said that in like a douchey kind of dickish way.
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: But you know, it's important for people to have a
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: space that isn't their house, their job, or their call, right,
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: and so like, if we can provide that that space
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: for people to just come exist outside of that, like
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: that rat race that they do every day.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's got to be That's got to be a
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: trend at some point.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. I haven't seen it, but I
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: imagine there might be another brewery out there called Third
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Space Brewing, So well, oh.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: I if there's not, I'm going to trademark it now
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: and get into that.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: There we go. I'm glad we brings. This is perfect.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Speaking of three, what are your three favorite beers you've ever.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: Made that I've made? Oh man, so my serious one.
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: Is the check style loguer that I made at my
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: last job.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: It took me.
• 48:26
  Speaker 4: A lot of effort to dial it in, and then
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: once it got dialed in, it it.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Was kind of me.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: At the time when I made it, proving to myself
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: that I could do this right. Like everybody goes through
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: those waves of self doubt, especially like I made that
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: beer after COVID and didn't know if I was going
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: to stay in the industry or like what I was
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: going to do, and that beer kind of put me
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: back on track. You're like, no, I'm in the right place,
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: I'm doing the right thing, and they're still making it
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: and they make a.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Ton of it and people really like it.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: One of my other ones is actually one of the
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: things that I'm making now is my half Vice that
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: I make.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: I'm super proud of that recipe.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: That's been something that I've been making since I was
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: a homebrewer, and it's you know, it's taken almost thirteen
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: years to perfect it, but that's the one beer that
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: I make that I'm just like, that's dumb. I'm not
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: changing anything that is in ink laminated, never changing. And
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: then this is no, this isn't a joke one because
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: I'm still really proud of what that beer did. The
• 49:52
  Speaker 4: first big company that I worked for, we put out
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: a glitter beer.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: Oh fruited our that this might give away who it was,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: but it.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: Was a like a glazed donut fruit loops sour beer
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: with edible glittering.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: I remember that craze and that and that was something. Yeah.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we were the first ones to do it at scale.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, sorry, not for three Pebbles.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: It was in conjunction with this local donut shop that
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: and we wanted to do. We collabed with them to
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: make a beer that was it. It was a fruity Pebbles.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Glazed donut beer that sounds perfect.
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: And it started off as like, oh, yeah, we're gonna
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: do a one off of this, so it'll be you know,
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: we'll do one batch and then see how it goes.
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: And then one batch turned into three uh, turned into
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: a big event, turned into sponsoring a bunch of pride events, into.
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: Really you know, doing something good for people, and then.
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: Just getting a full boatload of ship from people on
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: the internet.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Well that's what they're there for, you know.
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: Every every dickhead with an opinion was like, oh, this
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: is bullshit, this isn't beer that like this is this
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: has gone too far.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: And come down.
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: It was real satisfying to have one of those people
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: who was ship talking on the internet come in for
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: the release day event try it and go oh.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: Oh this is actually good. Right, it's like, yeah, man, like,
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: we're not gonna put out a ship beer.
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: Like, if we're gonna do something this crazy, it's gonna
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: it's gotta be good.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's no way. Like, well, so how many
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: different iterations of that did y'all make before it? You
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: were finding like, okay, nailed it.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Uh So we did a little bit of like like
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: bench trialing piloting, because yeah, it was just our like
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: our base sour beer, and then we just added some
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: stuff to it, and we figured out the proportions and
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: like what we wanted to do and how we wanted
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: it to taste. We worked with a really really good
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: flavor extract company who, like I still used to this
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: day because their products are fucking awesome. I'll shout it out.
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: It's Apex Flavorings out of Maryland. They're fucking great. Anybody
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: who makes beer should talk to them because if you
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: want to make something crazy, they'll help you do it.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: And so we worked with them and it was, you know,
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: we sold a ton of it.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: The brewery doesn't exist as a single entity anymore. Got
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: bought up like two years ago and they're still they're
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: brewing out of somewhere else now. They got bought up
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: by another company, but they're still making that beer and
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: they have a couple different iterations of it. So it's
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: you know, it stood up. It might be a gimmick,
• 53:07
  Speaker 4: but it it speaks for itself. The beer speaks for itself.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that gimmick that still works.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: I have a segment of the show. I call it
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: the Five Countants and five Random Questions. Number one, what
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: was your first concert?
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: My very first concert was Charlie Daniel's band at the
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: New York State Fair.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, nice?
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad.
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: My dad got me into music really young, and like
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: I think I was. I think I might have been
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: eight or nine when it took me. He was like,
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: all these guys are playing, I want to go you're
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: coming with?
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Okay? Cool?
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Number two. If you were a progress or MMA fighter,
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: what would you name be?
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I asked that again.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: If you were a pro wrestler or MMA fighter, what
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: would your name be?
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: Man, it's got uh. I'm gonna go with the workhorse
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: because you know, I might not be the smartest guy,
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: but I'm gonna work real hard and make sure that,
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: like I get to the same point.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: And it was you know that kind of uh going
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: back to the PBR thing.
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: My grandpa used to say about PBR, she's not the
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: prettiest pony.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: But she'll plow the field.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: And so like that's you know, So you don't have
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: to be you don't have to be perfect, You don't
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: have to be the best. You just gotta work real
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: hard you can get where you want to get perfect.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Number three, what would your last meal be?
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: Last?
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: What last meal?
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: Like today or like of all time?
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: Gun, in my head, last meal, it's gonna be my
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: dad's meat loaf and mashed potatoes.
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: With uh with broccoli. Yeah, huh, all right, super down home,
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: super simple. It hits. There's something I think meat loaf gets.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: Too much hate because so many, so many people's parents
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: made meat loaf dry as ship. Yep, I just like
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: the place sawdust, but like whatever my dad, Like, my
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: dad's a chef, so I'm kind of coming from a
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: bit of a different starting point.
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: But like.
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: I have the recipe. I make it, you know, once
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: a month. It's not quite the same. There's something he
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: didn't tell me. I'm gonna squeeze it out of him
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: before he dies.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: Ever tells you is that one little secret that you're like,
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: damn it not, I love you son.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's this thing that you're missing.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: Fuck, thank you. That's hilarious. Number four, Who are what
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: inspires you?
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: Shit, that's that's way too hard I have.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: I have so many cool people in my life who
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: do really cool stuff that I can't put it down
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: to one person. I have been really, really lucky in
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: my life to have family and friends who are really
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: smart and really talented and aren't afraid to take chances
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: and aren't afraid to call me out of my bullshit
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: and like have just you know, been unapologetically themselves.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: And so it's definitely that.
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: And like my wife inspires me every day because one
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: she puts up with me and he's super smart and
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: super talented. Oh and yeah, and like it's just it's
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: my friends and my family straight up.
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: Like they're the coolest people. I know.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: That's good. You always surround yourself with good people. Number five.
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: What would you tell your seventeen year old self? Oh?
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: Fuck, I don't think we have enough time for that. No.
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: I I would tell my younger self to be who
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: you're gonna be.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: Don't try to fit into somebody else, don't don't try
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: to be when somebody.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: Else wants you to be.
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: Because that's not gonna get you anywhere. You have to
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: be authentically yourself and unapologetically yourself, right you know, not
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: to not to the detriment of other people. But don't
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: be a don't be a main character. Don't do that shit.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: But like, stick stick to who you are and what
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: what you believe, and never ever ever close your brain
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: off to learning. Yeah, because like you gotta that's something.
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: I didn't hit that something like didn't hit me until
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: I was in my late twenties early thirties. Like you
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: gotta learn something new every day, Like you can't, don't be.
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: Don't be this stagnant person just gets stuck due to incuriosity, right, Like,
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: have have a curious thought every day, have a moment
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: of just fucking grown up whimsy like find in a
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: world where joy is at has a cost, that is
• 58:49
  Speaker 4: at a premium, find a fucking moment of joy, no
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: matter what's going on, no matter how how much of
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: a Yeah I woke up today day it was find
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: just like one little thing.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: To be like Noah, but that was cool, Yeah, or
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: I fucking learned that.
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: Little thing today like, just have that in the back
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: of your head and don't get stuck on what other
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: people want from you.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Are for Yeah, there you go. Luck, that's good. If
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: anybody wants to find out more about you, follow you
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: guys online, visit the brewery. Obviously supportshalling anyway, how can
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: they do so?
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're Hockley Brewing on a bunch of the socials.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: I know, we've got an Instagram. Uh, we got a Facebook.
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know who's still on Facebook, but we got one.
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: Hockeybrewing dot Com is our website we can get We
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: take inquiries through there, or you can hit us up
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: on our Instagram. Don't follow me. I'm not interesting anywhere.
• 59:50
  Speaker 4: I'm just a guy who makes beer and posts memes.
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: And if anybody is in the Northern Virginia area, we're
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: out in Herndon. We're like ten minutes from Dallas Airport.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: If you got to layover at Dallas, it is ten
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: minutes door to door from the airport to the brewery.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: Beat those bullshit airport prices. I come out and have
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: a couple of pints and then head back over. You know,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: That's that's what we're here for.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: There we go Michael. I've loved this conversation so much,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: and I am long overdue. I haven't been of DC
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: since I dated a girl there and I memory came
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: up the other day. It's been like fifteen years, so
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I need to I need to get back right there. Yeah. Oh,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: I imagine it's a lot different up there, but yeah,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I definitely need to make it up there, and I'm
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: definitely swinging by Hockey. I see you guys.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, hell y'ah man anytime.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for Mike for being on the show.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: Again. If you're in the Herndon, Virginia area, definitely swing
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: by Hockley Brewing. They are doing absolutely awesome things. I
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: can't wait to go there myself. Again, I haven't been
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: to that area in a very long time, so I
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: definitely need to go check them out. So definitely go
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: check out Mike on social media and in person, and
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: then obviously go make sure go follow us on social media.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: It is bruisers Pod. That is R E W S
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: C R S p O D on the Instagram, the
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: threads and the Twitter if you want to send us
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: an email at gmail dot com. If we follow me directly,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: it is Roady John that is r O d I
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: E j O N. Roddy John is the name on
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: the Twitter and untapped O case you won't find out
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: what I'm drinking, maybe we have a beer together. If
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: you can follow them only threads or the Instagram, it
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: is official Rody John sot. The next time, make sure
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: to enjoy life, drink local and cheers