Latest / Vanguards of Healthcare by Bloomberg Intelligence / Transcarent’s Bet on AI and the End of Healthcare Scarcity

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Transcarent’s Bet on AI and the End of Healthcare Scarcity · Vanguards of Healthcare by Bloomberg Intelligence

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Bloomberg Intelligences Vanguards of Healthcare podcast,
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Speaker 1: where we speak with the leaders at the forefront of
0:26
Speaker 1: change in the healthcare industry. My name is Jonathan Palmer,
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Speaker 1: and I'm a healthcare analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence, the in
0:32
Speaker 1: house research arm of Bloomberg. I'm thrilled to welcome back
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Speaker 1: Glenn Tulman, the CEO of Transparent, who previously joined us
0:38
Speaker 1: for an episode in April twenty twenty three. Glenn is
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Speaker 1: a titan in this sector. He's formally the CEO of
0:44
Speaker 1: Lavongo and All Scripts, and he's also the co founder
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Speaker 1: and partner and a partner of seven Wire Ventures. I'm
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Speaker 1: beyond excited to have this opportunity to sit down with
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Speaker 1: him again. Glenn, welcome back.
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Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much, it's great to be back.
0:57
Speaker 1: Well, why don't we start at a thirty thousand foot
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Speaker 1: view with what transcarrent is and maybe we can cover
1:03
Speaker 1: a little bit what's changed in the last few years
1:05
Speaker 1: since since we chatted.
1:06
Speaker 2: And how much time do we have because a lot
1:09
Speaker 2: has changed, maybe the later pitch. Let me start off
1:13
Speaker 2: with transcaren so in some ways it's very simple to
1:18
Speaker 2: understand and This is the beauty of healthcare because all
1:21
Speaker 2: of us have experienced healthcare, and so when we think
1:26
Speaker 2: of Transcarent, we really think of our vision and our mission.
1:31
Speaker 2: Our vision is all of your health and care in
1:34
Speaker 2: one place. Imagine that if you could just look at
1:37
Speaker 2: your phone and everything you needed to do was right there,
1:41
Speaker 2: wouldn't that make life a lot simpler? And our mission
1:45
Speaker 2: is to make it easy for people to access high quality,
1:50
Speaker 2: affordable health and care. So make it easy first and foremost.
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Speaker 2: When I moved out to Silicon Valley, they kept saying,
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Speaker 2: you know, we don't understand healthcare because everything you do
2:04
Speaker 2: creates friction. It's a cope a, it's coinsurance, it's you know, preauthorizations,
2:12
Speaker 2: its approvals, and why don't you just create something that
2:15
Speaker 2: makes it easy for people. That's what we do in
2:18
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley. So that always stuck with me, making it easy.
2:22
Speaker 2: The second thing is access. And when you think about access,
2:27
Speaker 2: think about the fact that in healthcare, most access other
2:31
Speaker 2: than an er is eight to five, and that happens
2:36
Speaker 2: to be exactly the time that most of us work,
2:39
Speaker 2: so and that's when our children go to school. So
2:43
Speaker 2: it's as inconvenient as you can make it. And in fact,
2:46
Speaker 2: some doctor's offices even closed during the lunch hour, so
2:49
Speaker 2: the ideas I'll pop over there during lunch, so easy
2:53
Speaker 2: to access, high quality first and foremost, it's about our
2:58
Speaker 2: health and you and no one else listening to your
3:02
Speaker 2: podcast wouldever say, find me the cheapest place that I
3:05
Speaker 2: can get care for my kids. We all focus on
3:08
Speaker 2: quality first, and that's what we do with Transparent so
3:12
Speaker 2: easy access, high quality, affordable. It doesn't help you if
3:17
Speaker 2: I say here's the best place, but you can't afford it.
3:20
Speaker 2: And then lastly, we separate healthcare into health keeping people
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Speaker 2: healthy and outside the four walls of the hospital, and
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Speaker 2: care taking care of them when they do need care
3:34
Speaker 2: at a high quality, affordable place where they're going to
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Speaker 2: get the care they need and only the care they need.
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Speaker 2: Really important, because we do thirty percent too many surgeries
3:45
Speaker 2: in this country. We want to make sure that second
3:48
Speaker 2: opinions are used and you take as much care in
3:52
Speaker 2: getting surgery as you do when you get a recommendation
3:55
Speaker 2: for a restaurant before you go and eat there.
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Speaker 1: Well, you cover a lot of different pain points and
4:00
Speaker 1: areas of friction. Maybe Caul, you just talk a little
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Speaker 1: bit about how you're tackling some of those, whether it's
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Speaker 1: quality of care, affordability, How does the pieces of the
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Speaker 1: puzzle all fit together.
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Speaker 2: Well, let's just again go through that. Easy means everything's
4:16
Speaker 2: available on your phone. Access means twenty four by seven,
4:22
Speaker 2: and it means the ability to actually be texting with
4:26
Speaker 2: a physician in sixty seconds twenty four hours a day,
4:30
Speaker 2: unheard of anywhere else, and we've introduced that and we've
4:33
Speaker 2: set that standard. And initially even my own team said, Glenn,
4:38
Speaker 2: do you have to say sixty seconds? Couldn't we say
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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes? Isn't that more reasonable? And I said, this
4:44
Speaker 2: isn't about reasonable. This is about your son, your daughter,
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Speaker 2: your mother, your father, your spouse has an emergency, you
4:52
Speaker 2: don't know what to do. Five minutes seems like eternity.
4:56
Speaker 2: And my youngest son has Type one diabet and if
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Speaker 2: he was having a seizure, thirty seconds is forever. So
5:06
Speaker 2: you know that is why that you know, that's how
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Speaker 2: this feels, and that's what healthcare is about. So access
5:14
Speaker 2: twenty four by seven, easy on your phone, high quality,
5:18
Speaker 2: making sure we've done the vetting so you don't have to,
5:22
Speaker 2: and making sure it's affordable, getting you the best pre
5:26
Speaker 2: negotiated deal, and then again health keeping you healthy, and
5:32
Speaker 2: then care. So that's how it feels to use Transparent,
5:36
Speaker 2: which again we're fortunate to have, you know, a great
5:41
Speaker 2: base seventeen hundred clients who are using at least one
5:45
Speaker 2: of our services and increasing number use the entire platform.
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Speaker 1: How many members does that work out to these days, Well.
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Speaker 2: It's over twenty million members, But I want to be
5:56
Speaker 2: clear that every one of those people this is healthcare.
6:00
Speaker 2: You don't need to use a healthcare app every day,
6:04
Speaker 2: so we hope you don't have to. So unlike a
6:07
Speaker 2: lot of software companies where they say, you know, Facebook
6:12
Speaker 2: gets measured you know Meta now, who's a great client
6:15
Speaker 2: of ours, They get measured on how many hours you
6:18
Speaker 2: spend on their app. But we don't. We in a
6:22
Speaker 2: sense want you to spend as little time as possible.
6:26
Speaker 2: If you need to go to an er, we want
6:28
Speaker 2: to tell you here's the three closest rs, here's the
6:32
Speaker 2: wait time at those vrs, here's the directions that you
6:35
Speaker 2: need to get there, or if you're not driving, can
6:38
Speaker 2: we get you an uber or do you need an ambulance.
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Speaker 2: That's the experience. So It's not about how long, it's
6:45
Speaker 2: about how fast can you get the problem solved.
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Speaker 1: That's a great summary. You know, if we think back
6:52
Speaker 1: to a couple of years ago, you know, there's been
6:54
Speaker 1: a lot of changes in the marketplace, maybe could give
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Speaker 1: us a way of the landscape from a competitive perspective.
7:00
Speaker 1: You know, who are you competing with and what is
7:02
Speaker 1: the total market addressable market?
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Speaker 2: Lookuick, Well, you know, it's fascinating. I've often said that
7:09
Speaker 2: the world is filled with friends and enemies and frenemies,
7:14
Speaker 2: and in sometimes you know, we have all three at
7:17
Speaker 2: the same time. So we have a platform, and that
7:20
Speaker 2: means that on our platform, we have partnerships with people
7:24
Speaker 2: that we also compete with. And ultimately, what we want
7:28
Speaker 2: to say, not unlike in Amazon, what we want to
7:31
Speaker 2: say is you can choose us, you can choose someone else.
7:35
Speaker 2: Our job is to make it easy to access whatever
7:38
Speaker 2: you want one place for all your health and care.
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Speaker 2: So that's the case where we might have a competitor
7:45
Speaker 2: on our platform that we're working with to help make
7:48
Speaker 2: it easier to use them, and then we might be
7:51
Speaker 2: competing with them at the same time. You know, that said,
7:54
Speaker 2: the world kind of falls out into three areas. One
7:59
Speaker 2: area is, if you think of it, the traditional health plans,
8:06
Speaker 2: and those are both partners. We have great partnerships with
8:10
Speaker 2: organizations like Blue Shield of California, a great partner, a
8:15
Speaker 2: great innovator. You saw what they've done to disrupt the
8:19
Speaker 2: market in a number of cases, so very proud of that.
8:23
Speaker 2: And we have other health plans who might think of
8:26
Speaker 2: us as competitors, but they might think of us as
8:29
Speaker 2: partners too with some of the products that we provide,
8:33
Speaker 2: So that really depends on how an employer or a
8:36
Speaker 2: state government or other entities want to use us. Then
8:40
Speaker 2: you have the traditional healthcare platforms that have been out there,
8:46
Speaker 2: and those are somewhat dated. Teledoct might be an example
8:50
Speaker 2: of one of those, and you know it's been it's
8:53
Speaker 2: somewhat dated, and you know they aren't delivering the kind
8:58
Speaker 2: of world class ave AI based care that we're doing today.
9:03
Speaker 2: And then finally, you have point solutions, and the point
9:06
Speaker 2: solutions almost all of the top point solutions are on
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Speaker 2: our platform today, so while we may compete with a
9:14
Speaker 2: limited number of them, they are really our partners in
9:17
Speaker 2: delivering world class care. So you know what's interesting is
9:22
Speaker 2: we don't have traditional here's one or two competitors that
9:27
Speaker 2: you would see in some companies. When I was running Levongo,
9:30
Speaker 2: we had very direct competitors. And in some cases, if
9:35
Speaker 2: you look at women's health on our platform, you can
9:39
Speaker 2: get you know, Carrot, or you can get Progeny, or
9:43
Speaker 2: you get a number of different I won't go through
9:46
Speaker 2: all the names, Maven, but you can get all of
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Speaker 2: those on our platform. All are world class solutions. Some
9:53
Speaker 2: fit better for employers than others, and we want the
9:57
Speaker 2: employers to have the flexibility to use a and choose
10:01
Speaker 2: what works best for them. So I think it's a
10:04
Speaker 2: different world than it used to be. And that's not
10:07
Speaker 2: just in our industry. That's in many industries that you
10:10
Speaker 2: have friends and enemies in frenemies well said.
10:13
Speaker 1: So, if I think about the biggest news since we
10:15
Speaker 1: last talked, it was probably around the Accolade acquisition that
10:21
Speaker 1: happened last year. Can you maybe talk a little bit about,
10:23
Speaker 1: you know, why was Accolade the right choice and what
10:27
Speaker 1: was the catalyst for doing that deal?
10:30
Speaker 2: Now, Well, it's a fun question because when we initially
10:35
Speaker 2: did it, I received a lot of flak where people said,
10:39
Speaker 2: I thought, you don't like navigators? Why are you buying
10:43
Speaker 2: the leading navigator that's out there, And the answer was
10:47
Speaker 2: it wasn't that I didn't like navigators. What I didn't
10:50
Speaker 2: like was legacy navigators who said you have to pick
10:55
Speaker 2: up the phone to call me anytime you need help.
10:58
Speaker 2: And that was the model. It's still a model for
11:01
Speaker 2: Included Health, it's still the model for Quantum call us.
11:05
Speaker 2: We have hundreds of people waiting to answer your call.
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Speaker 2: But if you think, Jonathan, about the rest of your world.
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Speaker 2: You don't pick up the phone to call a travel
11:15
Speaker 2: agent to book a trip. You don't go to a
11:18
Speaker 2: bank or call a bank to do your financial transactions.
11:23
Speaker 2: That model is dated. So what I was really saying
11:26
Speaker 2: is we've got to change the legacy navigation model, and
11:32
Speaker 2: we have to do two things. One we have to
11:34
Speaker 2: bring automation so people can self service, which they love
11:38
Speaker 2: to do. And number two, we have to reduce the
11:43
Speaker 2: price because it was way too expensive. But you can
11:46
Speaker 2: imagine if everything takes a phone call. And last, but
11:50
Speaker 2: not least, we have to improve the experience. If you say,
11:55
Speaker 2: you know, you have a question about you know, muscular
11:59
Speaker 2: skeleton care, and so now you call a legacy navigator,
12:04
Speaker 2: what they say to you is okay. Well, now your
12:06
Speaker 2: company might use sword or they might use hinge two
12:11
Speaker 2: of the leaders, and now what do they do? They say,
12:14
Speaker 2: now you've got to call them, or you can go
12:16
Speaker 2: to their website. If you compare that to the experience
12:19
Speaker 2: with Wayfinding, you would describe I hurt my knee playing tennis,
12:24
Speaker 2: literally talking to the phone in English or in Spanish,
12:28
Speaker 2: and you would describe that, and it would say, well,
12:32
Speaker 2: you have a few different options. Your company covers one
12:36
Speaker 2: of these leading services, I can connect you directly to
12:39
Speaker 2: it and you're instantly in their experience, no sign on,
12:45
Speaker 2: no re explaining the problem, none of that. People love
12:49
Speaker 2: that experience, and so it's a whole world of difference
12:54
Speaker 2: and it's I always use the example of equating it
12:57
Speaker 2: when you know, first we're introduced to your first iPhone. Okay,
13:04
Speaker 2: you didn't say, oh, this is just a better flip phone.
13:07
Speaker 2: You said, wow, this is a whole different experience. And
13:11
Speaker 2: when people use Wayfinding, which is our next generation capability
13:19
Speaker 2: that does benefits navigation, clinical guidance, and care delivery all
13:24
Speaker 2: in one, all on your phone, all instantly. When you
13:28
Speaker 2: experience that, people say this is how healthcare should be
13:31
Speaker 2: not Wow, this is a better navigator. They don't even
13:35
Speaker 2: use that word anymore. We've completely changed that and now, frankly,
13:40
Speaker 2: the legacy navigators are. First, they went through the stage
13:44
Speaker 2: of denial, Hey, you really want to talk to a person,
13:47
Speaker 2: and it's like a bank saying you don't really want
13:50
Speaker 2: to use that app or that ATM you want to
13:52
Speaker 2: talk to a person, and people said not really.
13:56
Speaker 1: No, it's a new world.
13:57
Speaker 2: So first it was denial. Then was we're going to
14:01
Speaker 2: do the same thing they're going to do. And the
14:04
Speaker 2: problem is, in the world of AI today, you need
14:07
Speaker 2: a few things. One, you need the commitment and vision
14:10
Speaker 2: of what you're going to do. Two, you need the
14:13
Speaker 2: talent to do it. That's not everything. Three you need
14:17
Speaker 2: the resources behind you to say we're going to make
14:20
Speaker 2: as we did one hundred million dollar investment to develop
14:25
Speaker 2: the first generation and then continue to spend. And you've
14:30
Speaker 2: seen the numbers in the AI industry generally, luckily we
14:34
Speaker 2: aren't in the billions. But we're making a commitment unlike
14:38
Speaker 2: anybody else in this space today to build something. And
14:42
Speaker 2: if you saw our press release today, you'll see that
14:44
Speaker 2: we're pushing the envelope. We aren't sitting on even though
14:48
Speaker 2: we have today not only the first but the only
14:52
Speaker 2: real agentive AI experience that changes the way people experience
14:59
Speaker 2: their healthcare. We're not sitting on that. We're actually accelerating
15:05
Speaker 2: that leadership position CONN.
15:07
Speaker 1: There's so many things I want to ask about in
15:09
Speaker 1: that response. I have a couple of follow ups on Accolade,
15:11
Speaker 1: but I think I'll push those aside for a little
15:13
Speaker 1: while because I think wayfinding is a great a great
15:16
Speaker 1: segue here. So I believe you started that in twenty
15:19
Speaker 1: twenty four. Can you talk about the evolution of the
15:23
Speaker 1: technology and the platform and you know, you know, ending
15:26
Speaker 1: with today with your press release around some of the
15:29
Speaker 1: new capabilities, and I'd love to know that one hundred
15:32
Speaker 1: million dollars. Where's it going? Is it going to engineers?
15:35
Speaker 1: Is it going to I don't know, tell me yeah, yeah.
15:39
Speaker 2: A big part of it is just simply people related,
15:43
Speaker 2: for sure, and that is to get the engineering talent.
15:47
Speaker 2: And part of that is the talent's not all over.
15:51
Speaker 2: You know, we have a big base in Silicon Valley,
15:54
Speaker 2: we have a big base in Seattle, and we have
15:59
Speaker 2: you know, tech is also in Vancouver and in Prague
16:04
Speaker 2: and we're getting the best talent in the world. But
16:07
Speaker 2: number one, you got to get great talent. So that's
16:10
Speaker 2: where a lot of that is going. And then you
16:12
Speaker 2: know you're also relying upon large language models. You need
16:17
Speaker 2: more than one. You can't just choose one if you
16:20
Speaker 2: want the kind of accuracy we need. You need to
16:23
Speaker 2: make sure you're building in safety. So as an example,
16:27
Speaker 2: when most people, including some of our competitors, haven't even
16:31
Speaker 2: thought about, is issues like the famous example of someone
16:36
Speaker 2: asked chat GPT someone said I'm thinking of committing suicide,
16:40
Speaker 2: and it said here's the five ways to do it.
16:43
Speaker 2: If you said that to our app, to our on
16:47
Speaker 2: our platform, it would instantly connect you to a person.
16:51
Speaker 2: And so you've got ambient listening. You know, you have
16:56
Speaker 2: to make sure it doesn't hallucinate. You have to make
16:59
Speaker 2: sure you're in a walled garden so your information is
17:02
Speaker 2: not only not shared, but that it's not used for testing,
17:06
Speaker 2: and on and on, and then you have to make
17:10
Speaker 2: sure that you're protecting privacy, so very very important in
17:16
Speaker 2: these models. So so again across the board, those are
17:21
Speaker 2: the kinds of commitments that you have to make to
17:24
Speaker 2: be in this space. And Generation one was how do
17:29
Speaker 2: you get up and start the basics? And most recently,
17:33
Speaker 2: if you know, if you look at this, you know
17:37
Speaker 2: what we're doing is we're really going after problems. And
17:41
Speaker 2: you know, the the the biggest challenge over all of
17:46
Speaker 2: the companies I've been fortunate to lead, is that you
17:49
Speaker 2: can fall in love with your technology and what you
17:53
Speaker 2: want to do is fall in love with solving problems.
17:57
Speaker 2: So when you think about AI, there's a lot of
18:02
Speaker 2: AI that's out there that's being used. But frankly, you know,
18:05
Speaker 2: we've all had this experience. Sometimes technology doesn't make it easier.
18:09
Speaker 2: Sometimes is it harder. And so we've focused on how
18:14
Speaker 2: do you use technology to go after big problems? And
18:17
Speaker 2: our press release today goes after one of the biggest ones,
18:21
Speaker 2: and that is scheduling. You know, you say, I've got
18:24
Speaker 2: to find an appointment with my physician, with my doctor,
18:29
Speaker 2: and now today you'd simply say to your phone. You'd
18:33
Speaker 2: hold up your phone, you'd say to your phone in
18:36
Speaker 2: English and Spanish and Japanese, I'd like to get an
18:39
Speaker 2: appointment with my doctor next week, maybe Tuesday or Thursday
18:44
Speaker 2: in the morning, and it'd say, great, I'll be back
18:46
Speaker 2: to you. In some cases, we might be connected to
18:49
Speaker 2: their system, but in scheduling in most cases this requires
18:53
Speaker 2: a reach out to the doctor's office to do all
18:56
Speaker 2: that work to confirm it. So big problem jedgling. Another
19:00
Speaker 2: problem is if you think about, you know, symptoms like
19:07
Speaker 2: this happened to me? Should I be concerned? What should
19:11
Speaker 2: I do? So? Symptom checking Advanced symstem checking is another
19:16
Speaker 2: thing that this new release is focused on. So here's
19:19
Speaker 2: what happened to me. What are my options? What should
19:22
Speaker 2: I do? I hurt my knee? Well, you have a
19:25
Speaker 2: few different options. We can get you an orthopedic console online,
19:32
Speaker 2: could do that, you know, right now in the next hour.
19:35
Speaker 2: We could get you connected to one of the digital
19:39
Speaker 2: MSK apps that we talked about earlier. We could get
19:43
Speaker 2: you an appointment. What would you like to do? Well?
19:46
Speaker 2: Does it all cost? Oh, well, the orthopedic console is
19:49
Speaker 2: covered by your company. That's free. We want to make
19:52
Speaker 2: sure we get you off to the right start. And
19:54
Speaker 2: here's what an appointment cost with your deductible and so
19:58
Speaker 2: all that gets answered and done instantly. So you've got
20:03
Speaker 2: symptom checking, You've got scheduling. So now it says, well,
20:08
Speaker 2: I do want an appointment. Great, let me get that
20:11
Speaker 2: schedule for you. And then you have what we call
20:16
Speaker 2: total recall memory, which is, by the way, you've had
20:21
Speaker 2: this problem before, so sometimes that's important. Let's say you
20:27
Speaker 2: have a sinus infection and you know the software might
20:30
Speaker 2: say you've had three sinus infections this year. You know
20:34
Speaker 2: you don't want to overtake an antibiotic here. You know
20:38
Speaker 2: this is something that maybe it's time to go in
20:40
Speaker 2: and see somebody, So total recall you might not even
20:44
Speaker 2: think about it. And last, but not least, a personal
20:47
Speaker 2: health path that says you're a man over the age
20:52
Speaker 2: of fifty, you should probably have a shingle shot, a vaccine,
20:58
Speaker 2: or maybe a colony sort that or one or two
21:03
Speaker 2: other things. Now, if you're over thirty, you don't need
21:07
Speaker 2: to hear about that, and there may be other issues.
21:10
Speaker 2: So again, it's creating a personal monthly here's your things
21:16
Speaker 2: to do to stay healthier longer. You can ignore them,
21:19
Speaker 2: or you can say, gosh, that's a great tip. So
21:23
Speaker 2: all of that is in the latest release, and it's
21:25
Speaker 2: just getting better and better and making life easier for
21:29
Speaker 2: people and making it easier for people to stay healthy.
21:33
Speaker 1: Where do you think this goes from an acuity perspective.
21:36
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, a sprained ankle or
21:38
Speaker 1: a sinus infections kind of a low acuity event. Do
21:41
Speaker 1: you have to put on guardrails to maybe slow it
21:44
Speaker 1: down and get that human interaction. Use the suicide prevention
21:49
Speaker 1: case before. But you know, if I think of somebody
21:52
Speaker 1: who's got cancer or you know, is maybe having some
21:56
Speaker 1: sort of medication problem, is it is this going to
22:00
Speaker 1: be able to tackle those sorts of cases today or
22:03
Speaker 1: in the future.
22:04
Speaker 2: Well, the beauty is on every screen. There's a little
22:08
Speaker 2: icon that shows a person and at any point you
22:11
Speaker 2: can touch that icon and be talking to someone. And
22:14
Speaker 2: if you're in the pharmacy piece, you'd be talking to
22:17
Speaker 2: a pharmacist. If you're in behavioral health, you might be
22:21
Speaker 2: dealing with one of our partners like Spring Health, talking
22:25
Speaker 2: to one of their behavioral health therapists. So what we're
22:29
Speaker 2: trying to do is to optimize and have people The
22:33
Speaker 2: industry term is practicing at the top of your license.
22:38
Speaker 2: There was a study done not long ago that said
22:41
Speaker 2: the average doctor spends more time figuring out where you're
22:44
Speaker 2: going to pick up your prescription than she or he
22:47
Speaker 2: does diagnosing you. And that's a waste of time and resources.
22:52
Speaker 2: So on our system, what happens is you walk out
22:56
Speaker 2: of the doctor's office and your phone pain you and
23:01
Speaker 2: it says, I know you just got a prescription. You
23:05
Speaker 2: have a few choices. Number one, would you like to
23:08
Speaker 2: go where you always go? Maybe it's CBS or Walgreens
23:12
Speaker 2: or Dwayne Read or wherever, or your local pharmacy you
23:16
Speaker 2: can just paying Yes, great done. Number two, would you
23:21
Speaker 2: like a cupon from good RX? That might save you
23:23
Speaker 2: the cost of your copey And one question you might
23:27
Speaker 2: have is, yeah, but what do I need to do?
23:30
Speaker 2: Oh well, there's one that's one point two miles from
23:33
Speaker 2: you right now. Maybe you walk by it, maybe you
23:35
Speaker 2: drive by it. You might say, great, I'll try that.
23:39
Speaker 2: Number three, would you like Amazon to deliver this to
23:42
Speaker 2: your home? Interestingly, fifteen to twenty percent of the people
23:48
Speaker 2: who use our pharmacy app actually make that choice. And then, last,
23:53
Speaker 2: but not least, mail order. And what's funny, Jonathan, is
23:57
Speaker 2: people love choices. So they love to say thanks for
24:02
Speaker 2: giving me the choice here. You know, that's what they
24:06
Speaker 2: really want is the ability to make choices. They hate
24:11
Speaker 2: to answer questions. Nobody likes twenty questions but they love choices.
24:16
Speaker 2: So that's a perfect example of the blending of technology
24:21
Speaker 2: we're not saying. And by the way, doctors, many of
24:25
Speaker 2: whom are burned out, many of whom hate the administrative work.
24:29
Speaker 2: Do you think a doctor went to school for ten
24:32
Speaker 2: years to try to figure out which Walgreens you mean? No,
24:36
Speaker 2: they don't like that, so and you know exactly, so
24:40
Speaker 2: why not have you do that? So? I think it's
24:45
Speaker 2: not a function of replacing people, doctors, nurses, therapists. It's
24:51
Speaker 2: a matter of actually supplementing them and let them do
24:55
Speaker 2: what they do best. You know. That said, I think
24:59
Speaker 2: there's a lot of situations and there's a lot of
25:02
Speaker 2: data coming out that, for example, on behavioral health. Sometimes
25:05
Speaker 2: people would rather talk to a person or sorry, we'd
25:10
Speaker 2: rather talk to the computer than actually have to deal
25:14
Speaker 2: face to face with a person. They're embarrassed about whatever
25:17
Speaker 2: they might be.
25:18
Speaker 1: No, that's fascinating, you know, staying on this vein of technology,
25:22
Speaker 1: I'd love to get your insight on where you think,
25:25
Speaker 1: or maybe said better, what are you excited about over
25:28
Speaker 1: the next And I don't know what the right timeframe
25:30
Speaker 1: is here because everything's moving so quickly, whether it's twelve months,
25:33
Speaker 1: three years. When you look outside transparent about what's changing
25:38
Speaker 1: in the world of healthcare, you know, as we're putting
25:40
Speaker 1: more AI and models into the system, what are you
25:45
Speaker 1: most excited about.
25:47
Speaker 2: Well, I'm most excited about how we use technology to
25:51
Speaker 2: create healthcare, health and care abundance. And I really mean
25:56
Speaker 2: that we today we have a lot of people in
26:00
Speaker 2: this country and clearly around the world who can't get care,
26:05
Speaker 2: and you know that's a function of the inefficient processes
26:09
Speaker 2: we have. And first and foremost, how do we make
26:13
Speaker 2: good care more available to more people in the US
26:17
Speaker 2: and around the world. And I think that's that's why
26:20
Speaker 2: I'm doing this, and I think that's not only possible,
26:25
Speaker 2: that's a likely outcome in a very short period of time.
26:29
Speaker 2: And so you know, sometimes people say, well, wouldn't it
26:32
Speaker 2: be better to meet with a doctor, Well, it really
26:36
Speaker 2: depends and the doctor might tell you that too, which
26:40
Speaker 2: is doctors will tell you that half of their appointments
26:43
Speaker 2: on any given day are people who didn't need to
26:46
Speaker 2: take their time. And so you know that that is
26:53
Speaker 2: what excites me the most, the ability to care for
26:56
Speaker 2: more people and do that efficiently. So and we see
27:01
Speaker 2: this in many other areas that we love the efficiency.
27:06
Speaker 2: You know, if you're having a scan of your long red,
27:11
Speaker 2: you want a computer to first review that scan. Then,
27:16
Speaker 2: based on the computer results, you want a person to
27:18
Speaker 2: look at it. So you want both. But the computer
27:21
Speaker 2: is just simply better at looking at every possible spot
27:27
Speaker 2: on that on that scan or on that X ray.
27:31
Speaker 2: So I think the idea of creating health and care
27:35
Speaker 2: abundance is really what excites me.
27:37
Speaker 1: Maybe to segue back to Accolade for a little while.
27:42
Speaker 1: You're you're, you've closed the acquisition. You're you're, you know
27:46
Speaker 1: less than a year, and I believe, uh, you know
27:48
Speaker 1: what has pleasantly surprised to you about the organization? And
27:52
Speaker 1: I imagine there must have been one or two things
27:53
Speaker 1: that maybe didn't you know, work out as well. What
27:56
Speaker 1: are some of the pluses and minuses that you've noticed
27:58
Speaker 1: so far since you've done the deal?
28:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, first and foremost, I think when when you've done
28:05
Speaker 2: enough mergers and acquisitions, you're prepared for surprises. They always happen,
28:13
Speaker 2: no matter how much due diligence should do so from
28:16
Speaker 2: in some ways, you're not surprised by surprises. You expect
28:20
Speaker 2: the surprises and it's question of what they are. Let's
28:24
Speaker 2: talk about from a positive perspective. We knew what we
28:28
Speaker 2: were getting and that was one. We were getting great people.
28:32
Speaker 2: And it's hard to get hundreds, let alone thousands of
28:36
Speaker 2: great people overnight. You've got to go out and find them.
28:40
Speaker 2: So we got an incredible group of great people who
28:44
Speaker 2: were committed to really improving healthcare. So that was terrific
28:50
Speaker 2: Number one. Number two great product. So there were products
28:56
Speaker 2: like second MD, which were industry leading and you know
29:00
Speaker 2: most people don't know, but first and foremost you always
29:03
Speaker 2: want to get a second opinion on any kind of
29:07
Speaker 2: major surgery. The beauty of second MD, and the reason
29:10
Speaker 2: they're the leaders in the space is because after that
29:14
Speaker 2: second opinion, after someone a doctor and a specialist and
29:18
Speaker 2: expert reviews your files, second MD allows you to actually
29:22
Speaker 2: talk with that doctor, not someone who's reading and report
29:26
Speaker 2: and interpreting it, but actually talk with the expert. So
29:30
Speaker 2: getting assets like that so people product. The third was clients,
29:37
Speaker 2: and that was the ability to inherit some unbelievably great
29:43
Speaker 2: clients and the CHROs and benefit leaders who work at clients,
29:51
Speaker 2: and you know, that was a huge accelerator for our
29:56
Speaker 2: company so all that was terrific and you know, it
30:02
Speaker 2: couldn't be happier about where we where we are with
30:08
Speaker 2: that with that merger. You know that said in terms
30:13
Speaker 2: of surprises, I think in any company that big, you know,
30:18
Speaker 2: with you know, more than fifteen hundred clients with twenty
30:24
Speaker 2: million plus members, you know you're going to have some
30:29
Speaker 2: of those clients who aren't aren't happy. And so when
30:35
Speaker 2: you do a merger like this, they have an opportunity
30:38
Speaker 2: to say, well, you know what, we have an opt
30:40
Speaker 2: out and we can change and so but that's you
30:44
Speaker 2: expect that in every client, in every large company. Then
30:48
Speaker 2: that gave us an opportunity to say, hey, give us
30:52
Speaker 2: an opportunity to address whatever issue there was, and we've
30:57
Speaker 2: been pretty successful in doing that.
31:00
Speaker 1: In any challenge. In terms of culture and merging the cultures,
31:03
Speaker 1: I mean, I think of Transparent as a more tech
31:06
Speaker 1: focused background versus the more traditional, maybe a more traditional
31:10
Speaker 1: business like Accolade. Have you have you have you been
31:13
Speaker 1: able to merge those cultures together?
31:16
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think the answer is yes. We
31:19
Speaker 2: had some advantages. One. You know, sometimes you struggle over
31:24
Speaker 2: the course of a year or two years of not
31:26
Speaker 2: knowing who's leading the company day one? You know, Raj
31:32
Speaker 2: and I agreed that our leadership team would lead, so
31:36
Speaker 2: the CEO, the CFO, the strategy officer, the most of
31:41
Speaker 2: the senior people that were at Accolade all left, so
31:47
Speaker 2: there was no question about who was saying and who
31:50
Speaker 2: was going. So from that perspective, there was clarity day one.
31:57
Speaker 2: There were a few other changes along the way, but
31:59
Speaker 2: by and large, it was very clearity. It was very
32:02
Speaker 2: clear number one, number two, the visions were pretty similar.
32:08
Speaker 2: And I think it's less about the technology, because frankly,
32:13
Speaker 2: Accolade had some has some great engineers. They had some
32:19
Speaker 2: very good technology. But I think it's the biggest difference
32:24
Speaker 2: is probably just speed of execution. And you know, we,
32:29
Speaker 2: I think at transparent operate at maybe an unreasonable speed.
32:34
Speaker 2: I think that took a little bit of getting used
32:38
Speaker 2: to for some of the folks there. I think now
32:41
Speaker 2: we're at a point where that's behind us and it's
32:45
Speaker 2: one team. And you know, we we had a theme
32:48
Speaker 2: of better together, and when I wrote my letter this year,
32:53
Speaker 2: I said, it's no longer better together, it's just simply better.
32:57
Speaker 2: We're one company, and we're better than we were last year.
33:00
Speaker 2: In the year before. So I think, you know, you're
33:05
Speaker 2: always looking at culture, you're always managing culture, and but
33:10
Speaker 2: this gave us an opportunity to really pick the best
33:15
Speaker 2: from both, and that's what we did.
33:18
Speaker 1: Makes a lot of sense, you know, I imagine the
33:20
Speaker 1: ability to move as a private company versus public company
33:24
Speaker 1: is worlds different, and I think you're probably no better
33:27
Speaker 1: person to ask about that.
33:30
Speaker 2: There's no question that. First and foremost, you have more
33:36
Speaker 2: degrees of flexibility as a private company, and you can invest.
33:42
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine as a public company making the
33:47
Speaker 2: investments that we made in AI. You just couldn't do it,
33:52
Speaker 2: and making the investments we continue to make to build
33:55
Speaker 2: this platform, So that was really hard. Second, I think
34:00
Speaker 2: it's tough as a public company. You have to be
34:05
Speaker 2: very clear of what you're doing. So if you focus
34:09
Speaker 2: on profitability too quickly, you can end up sacrificing quality.
34:14
Speaker 2: And that's a mistake that sometimes people make, and you
34:18
Speaker 2: get into a downward spiral where each quarter your numbers
34:22
Speaker 2: are supposed to go up. If you're not growing fast enough,
34:27
Speaker 2: you haven't designed the business correctly, and then you try
34:30
Speaker 2: to cut your way to success, and that results in
34:34
Speaker 2: quality issues and a lack of investment. So I think
34:37
Speaker 2: you've got to be very careful in terms of going public.
34:41
Speaker 2: You know, I've been fortunate to take three companies public
34:45
Speaker 2: run for different public companies, and you know, that's just
34:49
Speaker 2: a different thing that most people, including most entrepreneurs, don't
34:54
Speaker 2: really understand. So you've got to be ready to go public.
34:58
Speaker 2: You've got to know where you stand, and uh, managing
35:01
Speaker 2: in a public environment is different. So you've got to
35:04
Speaker 2: set the right expectations.
35:07
Speaker 1: So if we think about public markets, we had hingein
35:09
Speaker 1: Amada last year, do you think from where you sit,
35:12
Speaker 1: you know, at this intersection of you know, being both
35:14
Speaker 1: a large private company and also with your venture hat on,
35:18
Speaker 1: do you think we're going to see more IPOs in
35:20
Speaker 1: the tech enabled healthcare space in the coming year.
35:25
Speaker 2: I do. I think we're going to see some more IPOs.
35:28
Speaker 2: I think, you know, buyer beware. I think you've got
35:31
Speaker 2: to really understand and I always tell the CEOs make
35:35
Speaker 2: sure you have between four and eight quarters of beaten rays.
35:40
Speaker 2: You have to have a lot in the tank because
35:43
Speaker 2: you don't know what your next two or three quarters
35:47
Speaker 2: look like. And you go public, you're in for a
35:49
Speaker 2: rough ride, and once you miss, the market is unforgiving.
35:53
Speaker 2: So I think we are going to see more IPOs,
35:59
Speaker 2: and but I'm hopeful that they're done responsibly and carefully.
36:07
Speaker 2: Uh you know, so they don't they don't color the
36:10
Speaker 2: market for the good companies that are going to be
36:13
Speaker 2: public at some point in the future.
36:16
Speaker 1: Well, I think the the visibility on on earnings for
36:18
Speaker 1: the next year or two is a good good metric
36:22
Speaker 1: to think about. What are what are some of the
36:23
Speaker 1: other things that you would counsel you know, a CEO
36:26
Speaker 1: or founder who's thinking about going public, you know, what
36:28
Speaker 1: are your two or three top things to have your
36:31
Speaker 1: arms around before you go public? Outside just maybe the
36:34
Speaker 1: pure financials.
36:37
Speaker 2: Well first and foremost, I think it starts not with
36:40
Speaker 2: the financials, but it starts with the story that is,
36:44
Speaker 2: you know, are you truly solving a problem that needs solving?
36:48
Speaker 2: Number one? Number two is the business model. We've seen
36:52
Speaker 2: some business models blow up because they're they may make
36:56
Speaker 2: a lot of money, but they're doing things that don't
36:59
Speaker 2: actually solve problem or don't help healthcare get better, and
37:03
Speaker 2: that catches up with you. You know, we've seen that
37:05
Speaker 2: with companies that the way they make money is writing
37:08
Speaker 2: more prescriptions. So what do they do They write more
37:11
Speaker 2: prescriptions and that's not always a good thing. And there's
37:15
Speaker 2: a lot of that in healthcare where why do we
37:18
Speaker 2: do too many surgeries? Because people get paid to do them.
37:22
Speaker 2: And so you have to make sure that you're solving
37:27
Speaker 2: a real problem, that your business model is designed properly,
37:31
Speaker 2: that you have a way to continue to grow your business,
37:38
Speaker 2: and then to put a cherry on top of that,
37:41
Speaker 2: the market loves innovation, they love leadership, they love new things.
37:47
Speaker 2: So to the extent you can design into your product
37:51
Speaker 2: a way for it to keep getting better and better,
37:54
Speaker 2: that is super important to the market because the market
37:59
Speaker 2: wants to, you know, they want that story to keep
38:03
Speaker 2: evolving and changing and growing.
38:06
Speaker 1: Well, a couple things you mentioned there, Glenn, you know,
38:08
Speaker 1: around prescriptions and the number of surgeries. You know, one
38:11
Speaker 1: of the topics that I keep coming back to is this,
38:14
Speaker 1: there's more of transparency I think in healthcare than ever.
38:17
Speaker 1: Maybe not ideal transparency, right, you know, we have Mark
38:22
Speaker 1: Cuban railing against PBMs, and we've seen the emergence of
38:25
Speaker 1: a number of I don't know if the right word
38:28
Speaker 1: is transparent or newer entrance into that space. You know,
38:31
Speaker 1: how do you see some of some of those key
38:34
Speaker 1: themes unraveling over the next couple of years. I mean,
38:38
Speaker 1: are the big incumbents going to be truly pressured to
38:40
Speaker 1: change their ways?
38:43
Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost, Mark Cuban is a friend and
38:48
Speaker 2: the innovator. I think what he's doing in healthcare is
38:52
Speaker 2: terrific and I do think he's helping to drive this transition.
38:58
Speaker 2: So he's also a partner or too transparent, you know,
39:03
Speaker 2: I do think that the traditional model is going to change,
39:08
Speaker 2: and so we need transparency. We see it happening today.
39:13
Speaker 2: We have a pharmacy offering. It's growing like crazy, and
39:16
Speaker 2: that is people want transparency and pharmacy. And frankly, the
39:23
Speaker 2: margins have grown way too big. So we can go
39:26
Speaker 2: to almost every company and say we can save you ten, twenty,
39:31
Speaker 2: sometimes thirty percent on what you're spending today for exactly
39:35
Speaker 2: the same thing, and we can give your people a
39:38
Speaker 2: better experience. So that's just something that's hard to compete with.
39:43
Speaker 2: And you know, this happens in every industry. You know,
39:46
Speaker 2: if you think of the computer industry, you had a
39:49
Speaker 2: mainframe and then you had a mini and people say,
39:52
Speaker 2: many can do what the mainframe can do. And then
39:57
Speaker 2: you had PCs, and then you know, PC could do
40:01
Speaker 2: what the mini could do, and then you had literally
40:03
Speaker 2: phones that could do what a PC could do. And
40:07
Speaker 2: in each case you had this crazy situation where people
40:10
Speaker 2: would say, well, my main frame can do the same
40:13
Speaker 2: thing as your phone, and it's like, well, it's harder
40:15
Speaker 2: to carry it around. And so we have a situation
40:19
Speaker 2: where for lower cost we can provide a better experience.
40:25
Speaker 2: And this is really important health impact, so you need
40:30
Speaker 2: it's not just about cost, it's about health impact. Can
40:34
Speaker 2: you change the trajectory of the curve of the health
40:38
Speaker 2: curve and you know, can you actually provide higher quality?
40:44
Speaker 2: Can you provide some level of prevention? People Americans don't
40:50
Speaker 2: love prevention, but they love longevity so well, longevity, but
40:56
Speaker 2: can you do that? Can you do it at not
40:58
Speaker 2: the same cost? You know, in this industry, we love
41:01
Speaker 2: to talk about slowing the curve. No, no, we want to
41:04
Speaker 2: blow up the curve. We want to reduce the cost
41:07
Speaker 2: of healthcare by twenty percent, and that's what we're focused on.
41:13
Speaker 2: Versus I think you'll hear a lot of talk we
41:15
Speaker 2: want to slow the curve of increase Now, if you
41:19
Speaker 2: said that in any other industry, they'd say, what he
41:22
Speaker 2: can technology know the cost is getting cut in half,
41:26
Speaker 2: and that's what we want to do. And people say, yeah,
41:29
Speaker 2: but this is different healthcare. It's people. No, it's not
41:33
Speaker 2: different at all. It's just we have to think about
41:36
Speaker 2: it differently than the traditional folks have done it. That
41:39
Speaker 2: may mean that there's a new group of folks. It
41:42
Speaker 2: may also mean, you know, that the existing folks like
41:47
Speaker 2: Blue Shield, become innovators. And that's the most powerful thing
41:51
Speaker 2: because the reality is we can't you know, you know,
41:55
Speaker 2: whether Transparent is a few hundred million, which is what
41:59
Speaker 2: we are today, and we'll reach a billion dollars and
42:02
Speaker 2: then be even bigger than that. We're in a four
42:05
Speaker 2: trillion dollar market. We need the big folks to also
42:09
Speaker 2: become innovators or to partner with us to drive the
42:13
Speaker 2: change to actually get this country where we need to be.
42:17
Speaker 2: And so I'm rooting for them as well, but I'm
42:21
Speaker 2: reading first and foremost for the innovators amongst them.
42:25
Speaker 1: So do you see AI as being the catalyst for
42:27
Speaker 1: a lot of that change? Are we at a sea
42:30
Speaker 1: change moment?
42:31
Speaker 2: Here? We are at a sea change moment It's why
42:34
Speaker 2: we've essentially pivoted the company to be AI first in
42:40
Speaker 2: everything we do externally, the experience we're creating for all
42:47
Speaker 2: of our members, and internally, which is every process we have,
42:53
Speaker 2: we're looking at and saying, how can AI make it better?
42:57
Speaker 2: And it's not about replacing people. It is about how
43:02
Speaker 2: do we create a higher quality experience first and foremost.
43:07
Speaker 2: You know, and somebody you know always ask me, well,
43:11
Speaker 2: will AI take my job? No, but somebody using AI will.
43:15
Speaker 2: And it's no different than years ago somebody said, well
43:18
Speaker 2: this calculator take my job. Nope, calculator won't, but somebody
43:22
Speaker 2: using a calculator will. Then it went to will this
43:26
Speaker 2: computer take my job? Nope, But but it may require
43:30
Speaker 2: your job to change, It may require a different skill set.
43:34
Speaker 2: Because AI can do a lot, we should not underestimate it.
43:38
Speaker 2: But in healthcare, we want We have hundreds of physicians
43:45
Speaker 2: who are affiliated with the company work at our affiliated
43:49
Speaker 2: practices and they aren't going anywhere. They's just going to
43:53
Speaker 2: be more and more focused and efficient on helping people
43:57
Speaker 2: stay healthier. And that's really our goal.
44:00
Speaker 1: You know, we're almost at the end of our time here, Glenn,
44:02
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about the conversation we had a
44:05
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. What are we going to be
44:07
Speaker 1: talking about Visa VI transparent in twenty twenty nine.
44:11
Speaker 2: Well, it's a great question, look, I think, and it's funny.
44:16
Speaker 2: One of our clients, one of our great clients, asked
44:18
Speaker 2: me to help them on their ten year plan, and
44:20
Speaker 2: I said, there is no ten year plan anymore. A
44:23
Speaker 2: ten year plan is maybe a three year plan. We're
44:26
Speaker 2: moving so quickly to address for finally these healthcare challenges
44:33
Speaker 2: and move to a period of health and care abundance.
44:37
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping in you know, twenty twenty nine, what
44:42
Speaker 2: we're talking about is a whole new generation of health
44:48
Speaker 2: where we can get this idea of a monthly you know,
44:52
Speaker 2: what we call a personalized health and it's a path.
44:59
Speaker 2: It's not a plan, because the path is something you follow.
45:02
Speaker 2: Personalized health path, you know. I'm hoping that each month
45:06
Speaker 2: you get something that says, here's the three things that
45:10
Speaker 2: that three suggestions to have you live longer, stay healthier,
45:15
Speaker 2: And here's three things you've got to attend to that
45:18
Speaker 2: are very personalized to you. And it's still your choice,
45:23
Speaker 2: and but it'll be easier and easier to stay healthy,
45:27
Speaker 2: to live longer, and do that at half the cost.
45:32
Speaker 2: And that's really the view. This should follow the same
45:35
Speaker 2: curve technology followed, which is, you know, it's going to
45:39
Speaker 2: get lower and lower, the experience is going to get
45:41
Speaker 2: better and better. And you know, so I'm very, very
45:46
Speaker 2: optimistic about the future. You know that said, we got
45:49
Speaker 2: to get everybody on board. And as with all change,
45:54
Speaker 2: you know, everybody is not one hundred percent on board
45:57
Speaker 2: because some of the organizations and are healthcare ecosystem and
46:01
Speaker 2: make money doing the wrong thing. Sure the gatekeepers, that's
46:06
Speaker 2: what we have to go after.
46:08
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to living in that future. So, as
46:12
Speaker 1: you probably recall, I like to wrap these conversations up
46:14
Speaker 1: by focusing on a life lesson that really drives the guest.
46:17
Speaker 1: And when we spoke last time, you talked about being
46:20
Speaker 1: challenged by a professor to make a difference in the world.
46:24
Speaker 1: So I'll ask you this something along the same vein,
46:27
Speaker 1: But feel free to see if your view has changed
46:29
Speaker 1: on that question previously. I'd love to know. But maybe
46:32
Speaker 1: what's one lesson you've learned since our last discussion in
46:34
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three that's maybe changed how you're either weeding
46:39
Speaker 1: the charge or how you see the world well.
46:43
Speaker 2: First and foremost, I think making a difference. You know,
46:46
Speaker 2: I get asked this question a lot, why in the
46:49
Speaker 2: world would you do this again? And the funny thing is,
46:52
Speaker 2: you know, one of the secrets is you have to
46:54
Speaker 2: be willing. You know, you kind of start off at
46:58
Speaker 2: Motel six and work your way up to a Marriott
47:01
Speaker 2: and then do a four seasons and then when you
47:04
Speaker 2: start a new company, you got to start a Motel
47:06
Speaker 2: six again. If you start at the four seasons, you'll
47:09
Speaker 2: never get there. And so, you know, people say, legitimately,
47:14
Speaker 2: why would you do this again? And the answer is,
47:16
Speaker 2: you know, I've figured out that I love to solve problems,
47:21
Speaker 2: big problems. I love the process of building companies, of
47:27
Speaker 2: really watching people grow and pushing people to do more
47:31
Speaker 2: than they imagined that they could ever do. And you know,
47:36
Speaker 2: that's that to me is joy. That's really fun. I
47:42
Speaker 2: the hardest thing today is the fact that we're not
47:45
Speaker 2: all in offices, that there's a lot of remote work,
47:49
Speaker 2: and I think that's ultimately going to be a big challenge.
47:52
Speaker 2: But I love that process of watching people excel. I
47:57
Speaker 2: love the process of people saying this changed my life.
48:02
Speaker 2: This is amazing seeing them use wayfinding in a way
48:06
Speaker 2: they never did before. And I think the biggest lesson
48:10
Speaker 2: that I've learned is, you know, leadership is challenging. That
48:14
Speaker 2: is constantly it takes an enormous amount of energy to
48:18
Speaker 2: constantly challenge the status quo, to constantly basically say, you know,
48:26
Speaker 2: this isn't good enough, We're not satisfied. We've got to
48:30
Speaker 2: get better, and that is very, very challenging to do,
48:34
Speaker 2: but it's absolutely worth it.
48:36
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that, Glenn. It's great
48:39
Speaker 1: getting a recap on Transparent and all the great things
48:41
Speaker 1: you're doing.
48:42
Speaker 2: Well. Thank you for some great questions and we'll look
48:45
Speaker 2: forward to another recap when we solve this in twenty
48:49
Speaker 2: four months.
48:51
Speaker 1: So thank you to all our listeners for joining us
48:54
Speaker 1: for our latest episode. Please make sure to click the
48:56
Speaker 1: follow button on your favorite podcast app or website so
48:59
Speaker 1: you never missed discussion with the leaders and healthcare innovation.
49:03
Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Palmer, and you've been listening to the Vanguards
49:05
Speaker 1: of Healthcare podcast by Bloomberg Intelligence. Until next time, take care,