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I Asked God to Kill Me… Or Save Me - 26 Years Sober and Unfiltered · Recovering Out Loud

0:01
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
0:04
Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
0:08
addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
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If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
0:13
alcohol, please reach out for help.
0:16
Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
0:20
Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com.
0:26
You are no longer alone. Mary, thank you so much for
0:45
coming. I appreciate you.
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I met you through a retreat that we we had together and it was a
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lovely, lovely experience. I know you had a a similar
0:56
experience as well. Yeah.
0:59
How was that for you? Like being on a retreat with.
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You've done a few before too. Yes, I've done many.
1:04
Yeah. How was that being, you know,
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around a bunch of sober people for a weekend?
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There was lots of activities and meetings and stuff like that.
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What was that like for you? To me, it's like heaven.
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It's like being at home. It's to connect with people that
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are just like me is there's no, there's no words for that there.
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It's just blissful for me, yeah. Yeah, it's like there was a
1:28
presence in every room, you know, and I had a bunch of, I
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had a, you know, I had known a few people there beforehand, but
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I didn't know everybody. And I had a lot of interactions
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with people here and there that were really meaningful
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conversations. And not those.
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Not those cocaine takeover the world conversations.
1:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of those.
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Paramount Pictures We like to create movies.
1:49
Yeah, Paramount. Yeah, I love it.
1:52
OK, well, I want everyone to you know, I've heard your story a
1:56
few. No, I've heard your story once
1:58
now, and I thought it was, you know, well said, powerful.
2:01
But I think there's a message here that a lot of people need
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to hear. And so let's just start with,
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you know, childhood. What was what was childhood like
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for you it? Was difficult.
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It was where do I start? I I lost my mom when I was four
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years old. She had cancer and there's three
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of us. I'm the baby of the family and
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the the three of us have this thing in our family with
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addiction and alcoholism. And there was a lot of I grew up
2:34
with a father who did the best he could, but there was a lot of
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trauma in our house. There was a lot of abuse.
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There was a lot of fear tiptoeing around him not to set
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him off. And strict, very strict.
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And yeah, I mean, it's. And you adapt to that, right.
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Like when I tell people my story now and.
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Oh, my God, you lost your mom at age of four.
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That must have been hard. Well, what?
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How can I miss something I didn't have?
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You know, it's you adapt. You adapt.
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And when my mom died and my father had to keep working, my
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sister, my brother had to go to an orphanage Monday to Friday.
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We, we come from Montreal and there was a big orphanage there.
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And I was too young. So I had to stay with my aunt
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until I became, I think 5 or 6. And then I was able to go in.
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And in this orphanage, it was, you know, boys of a certain age,
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you know, and then girls of a certain age.
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It was like divide divisive and and we were raised with nuns in
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there. So you could imagine.
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I mean, I I was when I look back, I this sense of not
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feeling like I belong started from a very early age.
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And when I got into when I got into this orphanage, I was
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hanging out with these two girls and they were like the badasses
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and they had boyfriends and I just OK, if that's what it
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takes. I got myself a little boyfriend
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with glasses thick and I didn't know what I was doing right.
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This was just to fit in. And I remember, you know, we had
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there was a big statue of the Virgin Mary and when we went
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outside and I went behind the Virgin Mary with this boy and
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you know what, when you're 6 and you're kissing a boy or
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whatever, you don't know what you're doing.
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It's kind of gross. It's, you know, a bit of tongue
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this that whatever. And I sold told the boy when I
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count to 3, let's pull down our pants.
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So to see what we look like 123 pull down the pants and the nun
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came and caught us. Oh, my God.
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And I begged her. You could kill me, beat me.
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Just don't tell my father about this.
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And I don't think she ever did. And I was six years old at the
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time, right? So I was looking for a place
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where I could fit. And that happened as I was
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growing up, before I ever touched the line or a drink or
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whatever. I never felt.
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I felt different. I felt looking for to find
5:19
myself, my identity, you know, I, I, it was, it was confusing
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time. Yeah, yeah.
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What can you describe? What your first sort of memory?
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Earliest memory? Maybe with with substances?
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What what that was like for you? So I was 17 years old.
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I had graduated high school Montreal, and I was already
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living on my own. And I was working in this
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restaurant in Montreal. I was the only girl that was all
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waiters and I I hooked. I, I hooked.
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Whoa, let me rephrase that hook up.
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I know me. It's sex right now.
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So I did. That was not the case.
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Yeah, it. Used to be something different.
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Right. But back then hook up didn't
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mean let's plow. It's it was different.
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So I, I just became friends with this waiter and I told them,
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let's go back to my house, to my apartment and drink.
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And I remember I drank, we had sudden comfort and stuff and I
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drank half a bottle and I was so sick the next day saying, Oh my
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God, I'll never do this again. But even in doing that, like who
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drinks half a bottle of alcohol their first time?
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Like that's alarming. But I wanted to know.
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I didn't want to know about the tipsy.
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I want to know what it's like to drink and get drunk right there.
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There's something wrong, right? There's it's not normal.
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So yeah, it was pretty vile. That was my first experience.
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This kind of all the way thinking right this this.
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Black or black or white, all or nothing extreme, Yeah.
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And so he had the alcohol and what like, what did you, what
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did you know about substances up until that point?
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Like growing up, was it it was around your house a lot or?
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So my, my sister and brother social services were in our
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house because of the abuse my father inflicted.
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My sister and brother used to get severely beaten.
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My, my sister was a bit of a Red Bull.
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May she rest in peace. She's gone now.
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But you know, she was the type of girl that would leave the
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house looking a certain way, get out of the house and then wear
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the mini skirt, whatever, you know, and, and get in trouble
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and that in. So social services were there a
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lot and they kept running away. They were put in foster homes
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and getting running away from there and stuff.
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And so I was left alone with my father.
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And I didn't know what substances were.
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I mean, I had heard of drugs, but I didn't, I didn't know
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because I didn't see it. And I was forbidden to see my
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siblings because they were like the black sheep.
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And they were, you know, they brought shame to the family.
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Meanwhile, let's not talk about what was going on in the house,
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not going to talk about that shame because everything had to
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be swept under the rug. And I would see my sister in
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secret every once in a while. And by the time I reconnected
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with her, she was already dancing in the bar business.
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And she was hooked on drugs, on cocaine.
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And. But I would see her in secret.
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And I didn't know much about the drug then.
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But when I left on my own at 17, she came back into my life.
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And I lived with her, and I saw the devastation of what that did
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to her. Yeah, So it was scary.
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It was infuriating. I didn't understand these people
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that look like zombies when they're on this ship that they
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have no more and they're jonesing.
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And I used to watch her cry, coming down, wanting to kill
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herself, always listening to these sad songs, you know, it's
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like, you know, the IT was Western.
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So I lost my dog. And, you know, those sad songs
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when you're you're sad and stuff.
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And I always said to myself, I will never do that.
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Today's lesson is never say never.
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Yeah. Especially in recovery.
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Yeah, for a long time, I, I didn't think, I, I never said I
9:12
wasn't going to relapse, but I didn't think that it was going
9:16
to happen. You know, I was on social media
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yesterday and I was reading a post, I don't know, I'm thinking
9:21
of this now, but I feel moved to say it.
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I was reading this thing where they were talking about relapse.
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Doesn't it's a part of recovery. It can be a part of recovery,
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but it doesn't have to be, right.
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And I, I fully believe that supports that 100%.
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But these people were commenting on it and they're like, yeah,
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I'm, there's they were talking about this one and done.
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Like I'm a one and done. Yeah, I'm a one and done.
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You know, I first time I got sober, it's like, sorry, can you
9:42
see the like, how do you know that you're done?
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You know what I mean? Today, Yeah, today I can say
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that, you know, I'm sober and and and and clean, but I don't
9:53
know what the future holds, right?
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My my experience was that I didn't see it coming, you know,
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my relapse and I so I have to live for today.
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And we talk about that a lot. This one day at a time thing
10:03
that we go through, but it's like that's a dangerous place to
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be is like. That 1000% it's you're all.
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You know what makes me nervous? I hear people say this in
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meetings. You got this.
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Oh my God I I cringe. That's a good one, yes.
10:15
You got this? No, all you got is a one day,
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every day. You have to make sure that
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there's certain things that you do to maintain your, to
10:25
maintain, to just yeah, to keep your sobriety.
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And there's, there are things that you need to do, there's
10:32
things you need to read and there's instruction.
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You know, the more I put into my recovery, the more I'm taking
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out an insurance policy for myself.
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You know, do I like doing everything I have to do in
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recovery? No, no, I don't.
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But I have to do that because this is my third dry day.
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I did go back out. I did relapse.
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I'm just grateful I didn't die in the process.
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But some people die. I just found out yesterday from
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one of my sponsees that a girl that she was with in treatment
11:02
29 years old went back out after treatment used and died.
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It's not a joke. This is like so you know, when
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people get cocky or they, I don't know if they mean to be
11:12
cocky or whatever, they go, I got this, you got nothing.
11:17
Learn to humble yourself because if you're sober today, it's by
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God's grace. It's by well, I work for it.
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Yes, I've done the work, but I also rely on a higher power
11:30
every day and sometimes I've had to take this thing 5 minutes at
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a time. They say you have 24 hours,
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right? The maintenance of your
11:38
spiritual condition. I've had to there's been moments
11:41
in my recovery where I've had to take this, this thing, not one
11:46
day at a time, 5 minutes at a time, 10 minutes at a time, an
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hour at a time like this is this is not it's not.
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You get sober and La di da and I like poof, magic dragon.
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Everything is so good. It's not like that.
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It's life will happen whether you drink or you don't drink,
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but if you just learn to take direction, which for somebody
12:10
like me, that's why I had three dried aids.
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I was very stubborn and defiant. I was young when I came in and I
12:16
didn't have to do the steps, 'cause I'm young, you guys are,
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You're old and you're rotting. You have to do this.
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You need. Not me.
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Yeah, not. Me, yeah, because, you know, I
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had the, the, the, the cute little body this that.
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Nobody cared about that but me. But I was sick when I came in.
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We come here 'cause we're not all there, right?
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So and then after and and being desperate in recovery, I learned
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to take direction, I learned to listen and I learned to follow
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what these, the people before me did.
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That helped me. Yeah, yeah.
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One of my favorite sayings is you can't fix a broken brain
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with a broken brain, right? Or a sick brain with a sick
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brain. It's like, I've tried that.
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No kidding. I've tried that many times and I
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need some, I need another way, you know, it's, it's plain and
12:58
simple. Like I, I, I need not Anthony's
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plan today, right? And how do I get a different
13:03
plan? Well, I listen to your point.
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I take the cotton balls out of my ears and put them in my mouth
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for a second and just listen to, to what people are saying
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because they've been there, right.
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So you mentioned, you know, your first experience with alcohol.
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Can you touch on, you know, what the progression was like for you
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and sort of what LED you to that moment of like, oh God.
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So it it happened like it, it happened like this.
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So at 17, I started and then, you know, after 2-3 days from
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being hungover from the whatever that, that, that boost that I
13:37
drank, there was something I never touched that again.
13:40
I was sick. I started dabbling with
13:43
marijuana and I started dabbling with LSD and I was having fun.
13:47
It was so much fun. And then what happened is at the
13:51
age of 20, I, I got introduced to cocaine and I was hanging out
13:59
with somebody that was doing it casual user.
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And we were out one night and he said, I'm going to go get some.
14:06
And I said, why you going to go get that?
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I, I don't do that stuff. And you know, again, I was
14:11
feeling like an outsider. And this, this was back in the
14:14
80s, you know, and, and in the 80s and the bar business was
14:18
very, very prevalent, this blow and everybody was on this stuff.
14:22
And so he said, no, no, he goes, I'll go get it, I'll do some and
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you just drink. I go, if you go get it, I'm
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going to do it with you. And I did it.
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Oh my God, that was the love of my life for the first time, I
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think. And I mean the other drugs with
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the LSD and the, and the, and the, you know, the marijuana and
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the alcohol, yeah, they were OK and stuff.
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But cocaine did it for me. I felt like I had arrived.
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I felt like I could talk for the first time.
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I didn't feel different for I just felt like I could, oh, I
14:57
could run the world. It was just, and the talking, Oh
15:00
my God, the non-stop talking. It's just, you know, just
15:05
talking and all that stuff. And really that was my first
15:10
real good experience, cocaine. And then after that I just kept
15:14
chasing that same experience, which I never got.
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I started hiding in closets. I start, Oh my God, the stuff
15:22
that I did, I, I, I would just be paranoid and, and, and I'm
15:27
thinking this is kind of stupid. So I'm all paranoid when I'm on
15:32
it. And when I have no more, I want
15:34
more. And you know, I would think
15:37
about was my deceased mother who would look at look at me from
15:42
the other side and be crying just to watch your daughter go
15:45
through this. And not only me or other
15:47
daughter and my brother who was incarcerated for more than half
15:51
of his life, he too passed away. God bless him.
15:54
He was addicted to crack and the thing like the, the, you know,
16:00
addicts are all really old with the, the, the, the shame and
16:02
guilt. And that's all I felt in my
16:04
existence. I was dancing.
16:07
I didn't have two pennies to my name, borderline homeless and
16:10
abusive relationships. There was no direction in my
16:13
life. I was just lost.
16:17
And I don't have a story where, you know, I used for 20 years.
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My using was from 20 to 2323. I arrived in the rooms.
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I was done. I was done.
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I couldn't die. I tried to kill myself.
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I couldn't die. And it's sad when I think of
16:35
that. It's really sad when I think
16:37
you're 23 and you want to end your life because 23 is supposed
16:40
to be, you know, an exciting time in, in a, in a, in an
16:46
adult's life where they go to university or college.
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I was done. I, I was done dancing with the
16:51
devil and I, I felt that I was just sitting in darkness and I
16:56
did not understand the point of my existence.
16:58
And I remember when I hit my bottom, I was working in this
17:04
bar in Scarborough and I came home and it just stopped
17:07
working. I remember doing a line and it
17:08
didn't work anymore. And I came home and I got on my
17:11
knees. The very same thing.
17:13
I give the finger to this God. I thought if there was a God, I
17:18
wouldn't have had this life right?
17:20
My mother wouldn't have died. I wouldn't be raised with a
17:22
psychotic father. You know all of this stuff,
17:27
right? That was the biggest victim on 2
17:29
legs when I got into rooms with reason.
17:31
But looking at it now, nothing happens by mistake.
17:35
That was a purpose why all this had to happen.
17:38
But I didn't know it then. And, you know, I got on my hands
17:41
and knees and I prayed and I said, if you're there or you
17:44
kill me or get me better because I can't do anything like that
17:47
now. Did I pray to God while I was
17:50
doing my using and stuff? Get Me Out of this one.
17:52
I'll never do it again. Yeah, but this time it came from
17:54
here. It didn't come from here.
17:57
It came from it was the cry of desperation from my soul.
18:02
And that's all that I believe that God asked.
18:08
I'm on standby and I'm waiting. And when you're ready, I'll be
18:11
here. And I was ready.
18:13
And so my journey began, you know, and.
18:15
What did that look like after that?
18:17
Was it a phone call or was? It what happened is I was in a
18:20
in a relationship, very disgusting relationship with
18:24
somebody that got in talk contact with somebody we used to
18:27
party with and was now a big book thumper in the rooms.
18:32
And I got in touch with him and he gave he gave him the number
18:38
of an addiction counselor who gave it to me and I started to
18:41
see this addiction counselor once a week.
18:46
I owe my life this counselor. He was amazing.
18:49
I was scared to death of him. I don't know how many world wars
18:52
did we have 232. This guy looked like he's been
18:56
through 50, a recovered heroin addict and he, he just looked
19:00
you right in the eye and he looked rough, like he, you could
19:02
see he's been through hell. But you know, it was my
19:05
introduction into a different life and that's how my journey
19:09
began. So he I would go see him once a
19:11
week and he told me go to three meetings a week and I'd be like,
19:15
OK, which meetings? Once a week He goes, well, pick
19:19
one, right? 12.
19:21
There's different fellowships you could go to different ones.
19:24
I go, can I smoke a joint in between?
19:26
He goes, no, no, no, no joints. I'm thinking, wow, they're a bit
19:29
strict over here. But anyway, I had to do that.
19:32
And you know, I came into my journey began and I came into
19:36
recovery knowing that I was an addict.
19:38
I didn't know I was an alcoholic.
19:40
So I had to go back out to do more research with that wasn't
19:44
pretty. So what do you say to the people
19:47
now that come in because this is a common issue.
19:49
I I struggled with that too. At 23, I'm an addict to check.
19:53
Yep, all the evidence there. But alcoholic.
19:55
No, no. Like I'm gonna drink on my
19:57
wedding day. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna
19:58
handle the drinking. It's just the drugs, guys.
20:00
Like, let's focus on what? What's important here?
20:02
Let's not. Get carried away.
20:03
Yeah, let's not get carried away.
20:04
What do you say to people, new people that come in that are
20:07
like, because this happens a lot with, with our especially my
20:10
generation of people coming in, but also like, I don't know, I
20:14
can only speak for my generation, but it's like, what
20:17
do you say to people that are I'm an addict, but not an
20:19
alcoholic like. What?
20:21
Well, I'm going to repeat what was told to me in treatment.
20:24
I was shipped off the treatment in in 1989.
20:28
And this is when COVID, this is when the government paid
20:32
everything and my counsellors in the group that was sitting in,
20:37
you know, chances are if you're an addict, you're an alcohol and
20:40
I'm not. No, I'm not.
20:43
Well, yeah. And they made us do the step one
20:45
and we had to write how much money going back, how much money
20:48
we spent and this that. And I listen, I only have AI
20:53
don't even like booze. I only have a drink because
20:55
sometimes, sometimes I would do blow without drinking like that
20:58
was fun. Just disgusting, pitiful and
21:02
incomprehensible demoralization for sure.
21:04
And they kept going and insisting and at one point I
21:09
shut them up just to, I agreed just to shut them up because I
21:12
thought you don't know what you're talking about.
21:14
They're one of us, but you don't know what you're talking about.
21:17
You can't fool, you can't con a con.
21:19
You can't fool somebody who's exactly like you.
21:22
But I agreed just to shut them up.
21:24
But I wasn't convinced. So I came back and I joined the
21:29
12 step group, a program and a 12 step group and I had a
21:34
sponsor. I never called.
21:35
I did the library and I never read a book.
21:38
I I was doing things one foot in, one foot out because, you
21:41
know, I had this was firm and everything was firm and they're
21:45
old. So I'm going to.
21:46
I know you're there, God, but, you know, let me do it.
21:49
So I was, I was not surrendering fully, you know, when it comes
21:52
to my, my, my social life and my.
21:56
Yeah, yeah. I know you want the best me, but
21:58
I'm going to do it my way. You know, you got to get out of
21:59
dancing, Mary. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:01
But I'm still going to dance. Dancing straight is another
22:07
trip. And I was doing the without
22:10
being high because I was having so much panic attack on stage.
22:13
And oh, it was brutal. So there was a point then in my
22:17
recovery where I stopped going to meetings for at least I think
22:21
about a year and I didn't, I was lucky enough to not go back out,
22:29
but I did. I, I started to feel different.
22:33
I started to feel different. And what happened is this, it's
22:36
I, you know, it's the typical story of stop going to meetings
22:42
this, that you meet somebody, they become your higher power.
22:44
Next thing you know, I'm in Venezuela and I'm drinking after
22:47
3 1/2 years of sobriety. And when I drank, you know,
22:50
yeah, I'm, I'm amazed. I had like, I see people, they
22:53
go back out for a day or two and they come.
22:55
Oh my, same. I know.
22:56
Same. I was out for eight months, 8
22:59
months, and the last place I wanted to be was in a room with
23:04
sober people. It was going to screw up my
23:06
high. No, but the more I drank, the
23:10
more they got loud. See, there's a saying that goes,
23:13
Be careful what you pray for because you might just get it.
23:16
Well, if I'm aligning, I'm trying to align my will with
23:18
God. I can't have my cake and eat it
23:20
too. Something's got to go.
23:22
My, my ideas have got to go. I can't incorporate the old
23:29
ideas into this new life. It doesn't work like that,
23:31
right? It's a change of everything.
23:33
And during the time that I was out for eight months, there was
23:36
this gentleman that kept calling me.
23:40
It's so fascinating how God works.
23:43
And I'd met this person in a bar who was in the program.
23:47
And anyway, he would call me every once in a while today.
23:50
Hey, how you doing? I'm good.
23:52
Who is this? It's so so it goes.
23:55
You're drinking. Yeah.
23:56
Call me when you're done. Click.
23:59
You're an idiot. Why are you calling me?
24:01
Right. Like, but he was just making
24:04
sure the seed was planted. Once the seed is planted and you
24:07
go back out, For anybody who wants reservations about this,
24:10
it's going to be a nightmare in a shit show.
24:12
That's it. I'm warning you right now 'cause
24:14
you're nobody's exception to the rule.
24:16
If you're a Type 3 addict alcoholic like me and you want
24:19
to go back out after you had some time, it's going to be
24:23
hell, pure hell, because now you know the difference.
24:27
And anyway, after eight months, I called them.
24:31
I came back into the rooms and, you know, he became my sponsor.
24:35
They were right. They were right in treatment and
24:37
they were right in. And I, I, yeah, chances are if
24:40
you're an addict, you're an alcoholic.
24:41
And I can vouch for that because alcohol is a drug.
24:45
It's a mood altering substance. So why would I think that that
24:48
would be OK? Back then I thought I it could
24:51
be, but you know, you weaken slowly right in this program.
24:56
So for me, it turned out to be the best thing I did because it
24:59
just proved that once I became a pickle, I don't go back to being
25:04
a cucumber. I'm done, I'm done.
25:07
And now it's I'm I'm very comfortable and and at piece to
25:10
say I can't take anything that alters my mind.
25:13
I just can't. I'm allergic to this stuff
25:15
because once I ingest it, I'm like, they're not like the
25:17
normal person. Oh, I'm getting tips.
25:19
I'm going to stop. Duh.
25:20
That's the whole point. You know, I'm going to drink
25:23
till I vomit, sleep in my vomit. Good idea for me, you know,
25:29
like, good. It's not like a people drink
25:31
like this, don't they? No, they don't.
25:33
Right. So, yeah, it's interesting.
25:40
It's interesting how you, like you said that fix, you can't fix
25:44
the head with the head, right? Recovery is all about going from
25:48
here to going in here. That'll it's it's a language
25:52
that you got to go it within. It's a recovery is all about
25:56
doing the opposite of what we used to do with this.
25:59
The most. I heard a conference speaker say
26:02
once the most devastating 6 inches of history is the space
26:05
between my ears. Oh, I fell off my chair and I
26:08
laughed because it's true. So recovery for as much as I
26:12
don't know about you, but I try to dissect what we were learning
26:16
in the rooms and about God and what does this look like within?
26:22
Just do the work. And once you start to do the
26:25
work and you start to tap and you start to face who you are
26:28
and you start to get introduced to who you are and, and you
26:32
clean that stuff up and you give it away, then you start feeling
26:37
this peace and this, your eyes start to open and you start to
26:42
pay attention and you go, my God, look at my life now.
26:47
And the miracle is I don't even think about using and drinking
26:51
anymore because my life is so good.
26:55
You know, it's, it's it's miraculous, really.
26:59
Yeah. And that was, I think the, the
27:03
thing and, and weed falls into this category too, right?
27:05
With a lot of people that I talked to where it's so socially
27:08
acceptable that it's not classed with cocaine and heroin and
27:11
meth. And that's, it's a very
27:13
dangerous place to be, right? I, I heard someone, I think it
27:17
was, I, I heard someone on a podcast once say that the worst
27:21
thing that you could be is like kind of an alcoholic, right?
27:24
Or kind of an addict. It's so true.
27:27
It's like I'm kind of, you know, I kind of have a problem, right?
27:31
Because it's like for me, yeah, that means that there's that
27:34
back door for more experiments, for more research, like you
27:38
said. And nowadays the cocaine people
27:41
are doing is deadly, right? It wasn't as deadly as it was
27:45
before, you know, before now it's deadly.
27:47
To your point, we're seeing people drop all over the place.
27:50
And so for me, the mood and mind altering substances, I tried it.
27:53
I've tried every short like Ave. yeah, but you know, with all
27:58
sorts of substances and the risk now to today, hopefully
28:03
tomorrow's the same, but I don't have tomorrow.
28:04
I have today. The risk is just so high for
28:07
testing out anything else that it's it's not even worth it.
28:10
Right. No, no, it's.
28:11
Not so dangerous. I was gonna ask you, but you,
28:14
you kind of touched on it a bit. What is life like for you today?
28:21
I'd never if somebody would have told me when I came in, this is
28:24
what your life is going to look like going forward.
28:27
Flash forward to 2025. This is what your life is going
28:31
to look like. Clean and sober, relatively
28:33
healthy. You know, learn to drive a car,
28:38
have a car bought my house, married to a wonderful my best
28:42
friend, actually having direction and a moral compass
28:47
back in my life. I'd be like, yeah, smoke another
28:49
one like it's it's, I never imagined my life to be like
28:53
this. It's not a glamorous life, but
28:55
it's a rich life filled with purpose today.
28:58
And what I taught back then, which was a, you know, this God
29:04
giving me all this crap with the the loss of a mother and the
29:07
abuse and this, that I used that today to, I used that today to
29:13
help and work with the girls that come my way that are
29:17
broken. And when I, when I reflect on
29:22
the time when I was trying so hard to kill myself and I would
29:27
pray to my mother and I would pray and I'd say, you know, God,
29:31
God like, help me. And God's answer today as I see
29:36
it at not yet because I need you to do me a couple of favors.
29:40
Not because not because I'm perfect, not because because I
29:47
was given this blessing, this unmerited gift of life and a
29:51
second chance of recovering my case.
29:53
More than a second chance, third chance.
29:56
And he uses me as a vessel to carry the message that you don't
30:03
have to live like that anymore. If if you're done, there's a
30:08
different way to live. And so today I'm when I pray in
30:13
the morning, I pray and I'm I'm gratitude and I thank him for my
30:16
life and I pray for people and stuff and I, I don't really tell
30:20
him what you got in store for me today, because sometimes it's
30:22
like, come on, God, you know, but whatever presents in my life
30:27
today, I do the next right thing.
30:30
I don't go looking for girl people come in my life.
30:34
I, I, I, I, I give my, I give of my recovery away.
30:39
I do service in my Home group. I, I'm busy.
30:43
I'm busy and I do service not only in my Home group, in my
30:47
home and in my work. I, I, whatever I learned in
30:50
recovery in the rooms, I applied in my life.
30:54
And really that's what good orderly direction is.
30:58
So for anybody who's confused about what's this God thing,
31:01
good orderly direction, you want to introduce the kid, get
31:03
introduced to a higher power, do what's suggested to you and
31:06
you'll tap into that, right. So I, it's like I won the
31:11
lottery, but it's not the lottery of the money.
31:17
I won the lottery of life, the half purpose and I can be
31:24
authentically myself with all my cuckooness and I have a very
31:28
dirty sense of humor and but I also have a heart and I I'm I
31:34
got my good points and I got my bad points and I embrace all
31:36
that to just be merry. You know what?
31:40
I was meant to be in the 1st place and I'm loved and I'm able
31:44
to love not by the whole world, but by few.
31:48
So I'm grateful for that, yeah. Yeah, I always say to people
31:51
like my favorite and most rewarding part of recovery and
31:55
being sober is being able to sponsor and pass it on to, to
31:59
another guy. Like I, you can't describe it to
32:03
somebody, right? Like to, to watch the
32:04
transformation of someone, you know, and to see the, the light
32:08
flash in their eyes by, by something, not that you not that
32:11
something that you made-up or came up with or just something
32:14
that you've passed on, right. Or something that my, my higher
32:17
power, my God has allowed me to share, right.
32:21
Whether it's an experience or something I heard from someone
32:24
else one time, you know what I mean?
32:25
And it's like that I, I always tell people like stick around
32:28
long enough so that you can get to the point where you can carry
32:31
the message to specifically sponsoring, but like one other
32:35
guy or girl because it's the greatest thing, you know.
32:38
It's a gift, yeah. So how do you, Mary, how do you
32:42
navigate through you know, when life lifes you today and and you
32:46
know something happens where you know, you're like, why me when
32:52
life lifes you? How do you navigate through that
32:55
and? I don't say why me, why not me,
32:59
why not me? I've been introduced to lost
33:02
from an early age. Everybody in my family's dead.
33:05
We die young from disease. And all those experience have
33:10
just brought me closer to God. Really.
33:13
I had to clearly don't call the shots here.
33:15
Did I get mad at God? Listen, my faith was tested when
33:21
my sister passed that when she got sick and diagnosed with
33:24
stage 4 lung cancer, I became a little bit dark.
33:29
But thank God through sponsorship and I had a, a woman
33:34
in my life back then that we really did a lot of hard work
33:38
and repeated steps and stuff for issues that I needed to work on.
33:45
And I remember like the same as my mother when she died.
33:49
You know, what kind of a God takes a mother away from a four
33:52
year old and two kids? And the counselor says, well,
33:55
it's all about you, right, Mary? It's not about your mother's
33:58
suffering. It's about you.
33:59
Anyway, my sister got sick and I made it about me and I got
34:03
pissed at God. You just took my brother a year
34:06
ago. Now you're taking her.
34:07
Why that is so not that I didn't believe that God was still
34:13
there, but I got real with God and I always get real with God.
34:17
I don't go to God and go, you know, I said in our literature,
34:22
remember doing this years ago, presented somebody pray for the
34:26
people you resent God. I pray for this motherfucker
34:30
that you give him everything, this fucking bitch that you give
34:33
it. Like that's how I used to pray,
34:34
right, you fucker. That's not a name I didn't call
34:37
God when I came in. Somebody had to hear it.
34:40
Somebody had to hear it. But thank God for a
34:42
psychotherapy and all that. Like I did a a a number of
34:45
things to get better. And you know, a lot of these
34:49
spiritual retreats. I remember talking to a priest
34:52
going is it OK that I can speak? You know, tell people on the pro
34:55
in the program that you swear to God you.
34:57
Swear to God. Yeah, I do.
34:59
You don't. What do you mean you don't?
35:01
Right, My buddy? Yeah.
35:03
I go. I I remember talking to this
35:06
priest and I go, is it OK that I swear at him?
35:09
He goes, Mary, God's shoulders are so big.
35:12
He's fine with it. And he created me, right?
35:14
So he knows me. And why would I show up to God
35:19
being a hypocrite? Listen, bitch, I'm hurting and I
35:24
need you to help me, right? Whatever language you use, God
35:28
wants you to show up when you're broken.
35:31
He doesn't want you to show up when you're good.
35:33
Why would I even seek him out if I'm good?
35:37
My pain that I went through my, my depression, my pain, my
35:43
anger, my desperation was that the that the gateway for me to
35:49
get to God because if I could keep using drugs and drinking
35:54
and not have a problem go on, there'd be no reason for me to
35:57
contact God. Why?
36:02
I almost died. I tried to die.
36:04
I was sitting in darkness. Well, let me reach out to the
36:09
last straw. The very same thing I gave the
36:11
finger to for being for for having such a, an unfair life.
36:16
I'm going to give this a try, right?
36:18
My call to God and my desperation came from here, not
36:22
from here, from here. So, and it's the same today and
36:26
now when something happens, I reach out to God, I reach out to
36:30
my sponsor. I have a network of people I've
36:33
created, I've through time and stuff.
36:36
I have people that hold me up, like minded people that hold me
36:40
up when I'm going through a a hard time.
36:42
And this too shall pass. And it does.
36:46
Yeah. So that's how it is.
36:48
I love it. One of my favorite acronyms is,
36:51
you know, hope stands for Hold On Pain Ends, right?
36:54
Like sometimes I just need to grip the steering wheel and and
36:59
get through today, right? Because tomorrow might not be
37:02
better or worse, but it'll be different, you know, if I get to
37:04
bed, it'll be different tomorrow.
37:06
And yeah, that's gotten me through a lot too.
37:09
Or it's just like, I, you know, I don't know what's going on
37:11
right now, but I trust you. I trust the outcome.
37:14
And it's not up to me, but I I trust the process.
37:17
Right. I'm not liking what you're
37:18
giving me, but I know that you, you got this.
37:21
He got it. I don't have nothing, but he got
37:24
it, yeah. I can't, it's, it's so true.
37:26
Like I can do what's in front of me and I can leave the results
37:29
up to, to the universe, to God, whatever you want to call it,
37:31
right. And I think it's also important
37:33
to note, I always say this, but it's like we come in here and a
37:35
lot of people are like God, like I grew up Catholic and I hate it
37:38
and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.
37:40
It's like, you know, it's every, it's your own conception.
37:43
You know, it's not the, the judo, judo Christian
37:46
judeo-christian God. It's not the guy with the beard
37:48
in the sky. It can be, but it's up to you,
37:50
right? It's it's just not you.
37:51
It's not me. It's a, it's you said group of
37:54
drugs. I love that one.
37:55
Great outdoors is another one, you know, good orderly
37:58
direction. Sorry, you said group.
37:59
Good orderly direction. But I liked group of drunks when
38:01
I came in because when I walked into a room full of Alcoholics,
38:05
I felt something there. Right on the retreat.
38:07
Yeah, on the retreat there was a, a power greater than myself.
38:11
So pray to that, you know, fuck whatever's going to get you
38:14
through it. If you could go back to your
38:20
younger self before you got into addiction, what, what do you,
38:23
what do you think you would say to that, that version of you?
38:27
So, you know, there's this thing, I wouldn't change
38:29
anything. I don't regret anything.
38:31
I would. I would.
38:33
There were some things that I that I've done that that I would
38:41
change and not redo again. However, all of that pitiful and
38:46
incomprehensible demoralization behavior that I did had to
38:51
happen in order for me to be instrumental to carry the
38:55
message. Yeah, yeah.
38:58
Yeah, it led me to where I am today, right?
39:00
You know I. I want to talk about like
39:05
essentials to your recovery, sort of like these tools or
39:09
daily habits or things that you do.
39:11
And I'm, I'm sure maybe it hasn't, but has it changed from
39:15
so when you first came in early recovery, what were your sort of
39:18
essentials and then what is it, you know today, has that
39:22
changed? So when I came in, I was still
39:23
full of fear. I was still, for me, it was like
39:27
the experience of the peeling of an onion, right?
39:31
And I had all these fears and, you know, I had to make a
39:36
certain amount of money every day and I had to.
39:39
And I wasn't really investing in my recovery.
39:42
And that's like I said, when I reached this start point in my
39:45
recovery where even suicide was an was a thought because it's
39:52
not this not a deal where you come in and you get better and
39:55
you're. Oh yeah, OK, I'm good, good to
39:57
go. No, you got to give it away if
39:59
you want to keep it. So once I became like that, that
40:04
I really invest in my recovery and stuff.
40:06
There's things that I need to do every day.
40:08
There's things that I. So I get up in the morning, I
40:11
have my coffee, I read my literature, and I pray.
40:14
I pray I have a conversation with God.
40:17
I get up, I do what I have to do.
40:19
Where do you need me? What do I need to do today?
40:22
God, where do you need me? Where do you need me today?
40:25
Do I have to do this? Do I have to do that?
40:27
And like I said, for me, my life, a lot is service.
40:29
Today it's service. And service is huge because
40:33
service keeps me free. Service doesn't give me time to
40:36
think about my own stupidity of the Paramount Pictures.
40:39
Paramount Pictures is the, you know, the, this, this.
40:43
We should all been in the movie industry.
40:45
We would have been loaded because of this active
40:47
imagination, you know. It's always a horror movie.
40:49
When you're, when you're capable of forming A resentment for
40:54
something that hasn't happened yet, you're fucked.
40:58
And that's my brain, right? So, and I laugh at that because
41:01
how fuck do you have to be? But talk to another addict
41:04
alcoholic. Don't get that right.
41:06
So today I just try to do the next right thing.
41:10
I I, like I said, I'm, I work with girls.
41:12
I I have a position in my in my group, but I also nine years
41:17
ago, I enhanced my recovery by starting to go to Al Anon
41:21
because I had to. I hit another another bottom in
41:26
my recovery because I'm a fixer. And if you would just listen to
41:31
me, you would be OK. And I'm talking sponsees, I'm
41:35
talking people that are not even in the rooms and stuff, you
41:38
know, people that come around you and they drain the life out
41:41
of your. I can't, I'm gonna slap them,
41:46
right? So, but I understand that too,
41:48
because I've been there. But because of this program,
41:53
I've been given this gift that it's, it's not like that
41:56
anymore. So, you know, I was working with
41:59
people and I wanted to fix and God forbid they realized, well,
42:01
what did, where did I go wrong? It's not about me, right?
42:05
So because I want to fix because I want to control in that.
42:09
If you would just listen to me. Yeah, listen to me and Landon,
42:12
Al Anon like me because that's where I ended up.
42:15
And Al Anon, it's a program where there was something in
42:20
that program that I didn't learn in the other fellowship.
42:23
And it teaches you a lot about boundaries.
42:27
Don't go sticking your nose in the beehive because you might
42:29
get stung. Keep a safe distance so that you
42:33
don't get stung emotionally, mentally, physically and
42:37
spiritually. Keep a distance.
42:40
It talks about live and let live.
42:43
It talks about minding your own business.
42:45
And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You came here and you want your
42:49
partner or whoever it is to stop drinking.
42:51
I don't want to hear about that. They don't even really allow a a
42:53
very good group will not even allow for you to talk about
42:56
that. They're going to say why are you
42:58
here? Why are you here?
43:03
You're the problem. I'm the problem.
43:05
Yeah. Why are you here?
43:08
If you think that this is a program where you could stop the
43:10
person, it's not going to work, you know.
43:13
So that was a Ding, Ding, Ding. When I started to go and I
43:18
started to listen, it was like bells went off.
43:20
It talks about the the childhood it like a lot like what we
43:23
talked about. But what role did you play in
43:26
your family dynamics? Because alcoholism, addiction is
43:30
a family disease. The ISM is in the behavior.
43:35
Bingo. It's in the behavior.
43:36
So for me, if I look in my family, this is generational.
43:40
My father's side does a lot of alcoholism.
43:42
My mother's side is a lot of addiction.
43:44
It's not the drug, it's not the alcohol, It's the behavior of
43:49
these behaviors that are toxic in the family system.
43:54
So what's, what's really it, what's really fascinating to me
43:58
is people, they think that, you know, it's all, oh, I need to
44:02
get my, my son help or whatever it is a spouse, this, that.
44:06
And yeah, but you need to get help too.
44:10
Why? I'm not the one with the
44:11
problem. Yes, you are.
44:13
You play a part in there, right? You play a part.
44:16
And I, I'm, I speak like this, 'cause I'm so passionate because
44:20
you can't remain asleep and, and think that this is just about
44:23
him. This is about the whole, it's,
44:25
it affects everything. We are like roaring tornadoes,
44:29
destroying the lives of people we love.
44:31
Everywhere I go, I I like when I was in my diction, I was
44:34
destroying, right? That's what addiction does.
44:37
It's a devastating illness. And so let's talk about that.
44:42
Let's do some work on yourself and let's see where, what, what
44:46
part you playing there? What was your behavior like at
44:49
that time? How did you do the cope this and
44:51
that? And your eyes open and you're
44:53
like, it's like it's the same kind of program, but it's, it's
44:59
from a different angle. And I always say Al Anon is way
45:03
harder, way harder because you got unlearn patterns of
45:06
behavior. You got to stop controlling, you
45:08
got to be you got to do this deal with a little bit of
45:12
detachment. Attachment is the root of all
45:15
suffering. OK, give me a break here.
45:17
I'm a new, I'm a human being. So it's like I'm a spiritual
45:20
being going through this human. It's experience.
45:23
And I think the human experience is the fucking bitch.
45:27
It's hard. It's hard because I have a
45:30
heart. I fall in love with all my
45:32
sponsees. We share such intimate details
45:36
and I share with them my life. And how do you do this?
45:39
With detachment? But detachment doesn't mean that
45:45
you stop caring. It just gives you that space to
45:49
protect yourself, to understand that they're on the journey and
45:52
you're on the journey and it's not personal and you pray for
45:55
them, right? So, yeah, it's, that's it, It's,
45:59
it's a trip recovery. It's a trip.
46:02
And more will be revealed to me. And I'm just hoping and praying
46:05
that I will end up at my grave with this dry date and 'cause I
46:11
don't ever want to go back. Anthony, Never.
46:15
When I think about that, I cry. You know, in two days I'll be
46:17
celebrating 26 years. And it's a, it's a miraculous.
46:21
It's just, it brings tears to my eyes because it's an unmerited
46:26
gift. It's an unmerited gift.
46:29
Why is it that some people live through this and get and get
46:33
better and some people die 29 years old with a little girl
46:37
dead. Why?
46:42
And God's like, because I got a plan that you don't understand.
46:46
And I keep thinking that because it's none of my business.
46:49
My business is to keep carrying the message to anybody else who
46:52
wants it. It's it's.
46:55
As well said it, it's a trip, right?
46:57
Like it's you can't explain it. You know, more will be more will
47:01
be revealed. I love that it's so true.
47:03
It's like I can't comprehend the plan and I never will.
47:07
And that's OK, right. I'm happy you brought up the
47:08
family part of it too, because it's important and there's not a
47:12
lot of information out there for families that, that struggle
47:16
with this. They play a part.
47:18
That's a huge, that was a huge pill for my parents to swallow.
47:20
They, I think they're on the other side of that now where my
47:23
mom now, God bless her, she's carrying the message left, right
47:25
and center with and she loves it.
47:27
She loves when people come in broken because she has now a
47:32
role to play in their lives. And, and if, like you said, if
47:34
they're willing to pick up the tools, I have a tool kit for
47:37
you. You know, I want to ask you
47:39
this. What, what do you think the
47:40
difference is between enabling and supporting someone in active
47:45
addiction? It's a fine line, right?
47:50
Again, you got to wake up to understand the difference and
47:54
waking up means you got to become aware and accept that you
47:57
2 play a part in this. And if you're fighting and going
48:01
no I'm about the problem, you're going to stay asleep.
48:04
So enabling is me cleaning up after your mess, me cleaning up
48:08
after your debts, me cleaning up lying and making up story, and
48:12
protecting you at all costs so that you could keep killing
48:16
yourself because I'm making it comfortable for you.
48:19
There's no reason to change if there's no reason to change.
48:22
Supporting you means I see what you're doing to yourself and I
48:29
love you and it's killing me, but this is so painful.
48:34
I can't watch you die. I can't watch you die.
48:37
So it's either you got to do something, you got to leave
48:39
because I'll love you forever and I will continue to love you,
48:43
but I can't stand to watch this torture.
48:47
If you don't leave or do something with your life, then I
48:51
can't. I can't do this right.
48:53
So that's the difference. And it's the hardest thing to do
48:57
and it's the hardest thing to do because you don't know if
49:01
they're going to die. That's the reality.
49:03
But if you go for your own treatment to take care of
49:08
yourself in these other the rooms on the other side, you
49:14
know what you have to do. Because it could be your son, it
49:17
could be your wife, it could be your kid, whatever really, it's
49:22
God's child and you have no power.
49:27
Step one, I'm powerless over alcohol, drugs, my life is
49:30
unmanageable. I'm fixing it.
49:32
I'm enabling you. I'm cleaning up your debts,
49:35
that's to your manageability, and you become just a sick, if
49:38
not sicker than the addict Alcoholics.
49:41
So that has to change, right? So the moment you got you, you
49:45
start to take care of yourself and you stop then the disease of
49:50
addiction. Wait a minute.
49:56
Addicts and Alcoholics are sly fuckers.
49:59
They're very sly and they're diseased because they're very
50:01
manipulative and stuff. Not because they're bad people,
50:04
but because they're sitting in that darkness and addiction.
50:07
Alcoholism is all about darkness.
50:10
It's all about what can I do to get my next fix?
50:13
My next height is where can I steal?
50:15
Where can I manipulate? Where that's what it does.
50:18
But clean that person up and they shine like a diamond,
50:22
right? I read a quote from Carl Jung
50:27
and this is this quote never leaves me A whole person
50:31
complete. A whole person is someone who
50:35
has wrestled with the devil and now walks with God.
50:38
And if that doesn't describe us to ATI don't know what does,
50:42
right? So you clean us up and we become
50:48
we know both sides of the coin. We become real like real
50:52
warriors for God. Like if you listen to what you
50:56
have to do and you give away this message and you become so
50:59
passionate, like I'm passionate about there's a way out of this,
51:03
you know, So it's, that's the difference for me between
51:08
enabling and and supporting. I love that.
51:13
Yeah. Detachment.
51:15
I like that word, too. It's like, you know, healthily
51:17
detach. It doesn't mean I don't love you
51:19
and I'm giving up. I'll.
51:20
I'll be here when you're ready, you know?
51:22
So I'll be here when you're ready.
51:23
But until then, I can't partake because it's killing me.
51:27
You. Know I can't torture myself
51:28
watching you die like this and you know some people I know when
51:32
al Anon that live with an active alcoholic now they act and
51:35
they're happy. They still live with them.
51:37
They still but there's tools that they have they know that
51:40
they follow that they don't they detach they detach, they focus
51:45
on their own recovery and they're happy people and I'm
51:47
looking at them like wow, because I don't know that I can
51:50
Live Today with an active user. I I don't think I could.
51:55
It would bother me, you know? You kind of get taken down with.
51:59
Them but it's all about choices and it's all about they don't
52:02
tell you do this, do that. You figure it out.
52:06
Just keep coming back, keep coming back and you'll know,
52:09
right? So there's a lot of freedom and,
52:12
and space there for choice. Whatever works for you, right?
52:16
And. There's a lot of paths up the
52:18
recovery mountain as as I always say, what's something Mary, that
52:23
you're you're working on recently you've been working on
52:26
personally. So what am I working on?
52:35
I don't know that I'm working on anything.
52:37
I know that I could be very hard on myself.
52:41
Today is really not about drinking and getting high
52:46
anymore. Today for me, it's how I show up
52:47
in the world. Are my character defects in
52:50
check? I'm working on trying to respond
52:57
as as opposed to react. I'm trying to always.
53:01
I mean, everything today is about being in alignment, right?
53:05
But I know for a fact that I'm not leaving this world with
53:09
flying. I'm not the kumbaya, the next
53:12
kumbaya. I'm I'm a flawed human being.
53:14
And so I will die a flawed human being.
53:17
But I'm always trying to improve myself.
53:19
And when I'm really centered and I'm really doing well in my, my
53:24
peace, I'm slower to react. I'm, I'm, I'm more in tune, but
53:29
there's days like I just, God, don't put a gun in my hand.
53:32
I'm going to kill this fucker, you know what I mean?
53:34
But it's just, it's like that. It's like that's what recovery
53:38
is. It's about how do I show up in
53:41
the world? Am I working on my controller
53:44
issues? Am I still trying to fix?
53:46
Am I engaging in all these crazy things, these crazy behaviors
53:52
that no longer serve me? Did I gossip about somebody
53:55
today? Did I like At the end of the
53:57
day, if I know I've done something wrong, it's like that
54:01
always in here at the God Center.
54:03
That's where it resides in me and that's what my life is
54:07
today. What did I do good today?
54:09
What did I do bad today? And I ask God for forgiveness
54:13
and I continue. So it's always being about the
54:17
best version of me that I can give.
54:19
But it's not perfect, you know? Yeah.
54:23
With, with a little bit of forgiveness and grace too.
54:25
Cause yeah, I've, I've met a lot of addicts, Alcoholics, myself
54:28
included, that we're very critical of our, of ourselves,
54:31
right? We're good at picking up that 2
54:33
by 4 and beating the crap out of ourselves, you know, So it's a
54:37
good point. Let's end with this, Mary, if
54:40
you could say something to a struggling someone, anyone
54:43
that's struggling right now with mental health or or addiction,
54:47
what do you think you would say to them?
54:51
There is definitely a different way to live and I hope you hit
54:55
your bottom soon. And because desperation is the
55:00
gift that's going to be transformative in your life.
55:03
And if you're not there yet, that's OK, but get there because
55:10
without a bottom, nothing happens.
55:13
And So what I love to see, you know, I was driving here today
55:17
and I saw some guy and I don't know, on the road and he was on
55:23
a bike and dirty and like, I don't know if he was on some
55:27
type of drug, whatever. And I like my first words was
55:30
God help him. God help him.
55:32
My heart bleeds when I see this because I get it.
55:38
I get it. I never landed on the streets.
55:41
I hadn't landed on the streets yet.
55:43
I haven't gone to prostitution yet.
55:46
I would like homelessness yet, but I was heading that way and
55:49
for some reason Godseed fit to I hit my bottom and it it was like
55:54
I didn't have to land there, thank God.
55:56
But when I see what I see today with people and, you know, going
56:02
to watch a show and watching somebody on the nod in an
56:06
elevator with track Marks and that I'm like inside I'm, I cry
56:12
and I think God just carry them. These are your children.
56:16
You can't get through to somebody when they're on the
56:18
nod, you know, but hopefully they show up in the rooms
56:22
because every time that we do the serenity prayer, that's what
56:25
we pray for for the suffering addict, you know, and if they
56:28
come in the room, then our prayers have been answered.
56:31
Sometimes God, I think God is so merciful that he just takes
56:35
their life and says, no, what this is done or I don't know
56:38
what God's plan is, but the miracle that some people come
56:42
into the rooms and they stay and they transform their lives.
56:45
That's the prayers that are answered for sure, for sure.
56:50
And it's worth sticking around for just to watch that right?
56:52
Yeah. And if you you come in and you
56:55
think you've done and you still fall and you still use just keep
56:58
coming back. Get back up and come back.
57:01
Get back up and come back. Because you notice that saying
57:04
don't leave until the miracle happens.
57:06
Sometimes you'll hear something in the meeting or whatever that
57:09
you're going to go Ding, Ding, Ding.
57:11
The light goes off and you're like, Oh, yeah, yeah.
57:17
I love it. Thanks so much, Mary for coming
57:19
down. I love you and I appreciate you
57:21
and I had a lot of fun today. Thank.
57:22
You thank you for having me. Thanks for listening.
57:25
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57:41
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