Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / Ep. 586 – Summer Gear Storage Tips

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Ep. 586 – Summer Gear Storage Tips · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• 0:54
  Chris Jennings: Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, Chris Jennings. Joining me on the show today is John Pollman, the Ducks Unlimited Magazine freelance contributor. He is also the migration editor for the Central Flyway for the migration alerts. John, what's going on, man?
• 1:08
  John Pollmman: Hey. Not much. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me on, Chris.
• 1:11
  Chris Jennings: I was gonna say the most popular podcast person from South Dakota, but unfortunately for you, Scott Stevens is has moved to South Dakota. So now you've got so doctor Scott Stevens and John Pullman are South Dakota locals. I was hoping that, you know, I wanted to at least acknowledge your South Dakota living, but, it appears that now, you know, you got a little bit of company there.
• 1:37
  John Pollmman: That's alright. I welcome Scott to South Dakota. I'm actually looking forward to having him in the state.
• 1:41
  Chris Jennings: That's awesome. Well, hey. You know, I wanted to have you on here today, and to really kind of go through some discussions about summer gear storage. You know, we do all this gear coverage, and and duck duck and goose hunters have just piles of equipment that is most of it is super expensive too. And and really, there's some there's some things that a lot of people don't really know about storing some of this equipment.
• 2:04
  And, you recently did a piece for the July August, Ducks Unlimited Magazine in the campus waterfowl section that it was really just focused on gear storage and some proper, you know, ways to really protect your equipment in the off season. But before we dive into that, I wanted to get the South Dakota habitat update. Now, I know there's currently some surveys going on, and and and this may not be exact information, but, you know, if you can provide a little bit of an update from your area, that'd be awesome.
• 2:32
  John Pollmman: Absolutely. You know? So as everyone probably knows or as were as aware, we know when we came out of winter, things were dry, extremely dry across much of South Dakota. And then in April, the spigot kinda turned on. And to be honest, Chris, it really hasn't it hasn't turned off.
• 2:51
  The last several weeks, there's been a lot of rain, that has fallen. You know, I know that, doctor Stevens and, Mike Rasheed, I know they had a conversation on a podcast not too long ago about about the same topic. And and, you know, I would agree that the timing of it probably did is not gonna impact distribution in the prairie pot hole region here in South Dakota. But we were we were so dry that any moisture that we received is good. It's a good thing.
• 3:16
  Right? And so you're seeing standing water in fields. You know, these these tiny, semi permanent or seasonal or temporary wetlands, they are, they're starting to fill up again, which is great. And in places where you've got habitat around those areas, what I've noticed here in the last couple weeks is that you start to see bachelor groups of, Drake Mallards and Pintails, on those small water, which is a good sign. As far as I understand, that's that means there's probably some pens on a nest nearby.
• 3:45
  And so we've gotten good rains. There's the habitat is looking fantastic. You drive through, much of South Dakota, and the grass is green and lush. And, you know, matter of fact, my brother-in-law, he lives next to a pasture, and, the landowner put cattle out here recently. And he he mentioned, you know, I don't see any any of the calves.
• 4:05
  And the reason they couldn't see the calves is that the grass is so high. And so the habitat really, really looks good. In terms of production, I'm hopeful that the moisture that we we received is gonna help with, some broodering, that it's gonna help those little the chicks when they're, the excuse me, the ducklings when they're after they're hatched. And then just recharge things heading into fall. And hopefully, we continue to get some moisture and we get some snowfall over the winter, and then we're in a better shape next spring when ducks come back to the prairies.
• 4:31
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. I know last year, you know, about this time we were having these conversations and you, in your area specifically, you were you were pretty dry. Yeah. And and I know going into fall, that always seems to impact, you know, the way you hunt as well. And so it sounds like, you know, having additional water, you know, across the landscape is gonna be good for pretty much everyone.
• 4:52
  John Pollmman: For sure. For sure. And that's what we're watching right now. Right? We're in mid June here as you and I are talking.
• 4:57
  And from now until September, we're watching where this precipitation falls. We're watching to see what areas dry out, which areas are gonna pick up some more water because that will have a that will have an impact on things starting, September with duck season. So, you know, like I say though, it's it's any rain is good rain at this point considering how dry we were, and so we just kinda keep an eye on it, the next few weeks, the next several weeks, I should say, and just kinda see where it continues to fall, and that will impact where those stocks are gonna be starting the hunting season.
• 5:24
  Chris Jennings: Awesome. We will remain optimistic. How about that?
• 5:27
  John Pollmman: Yeah. For sure. Absolutely. Yep.
• 5:28
  Chris Jennings: Well, John, you know, let's go ahead and get into, you know, some of this gear storage conversation. You know, we had this conversation about, you know, writing this piece for the July July, August issue, several months ago, and it and it's kinda something that that I pay attention to. I've done a piece very similar to this, so I'm I'm familiar with it. But what were some of the things that that really jumped out to you as you were kinda looking into creating this and writing it? What were some of the gear pieces that you really wanted to take a look at and discuss on proper storage?
• 6:01
  John Pollmman: Sure. So when you think about taking care of gear in the off season, the idea, right, is to is to is to extend its longevity to make sure it's ready for you in the fall, make sure that it's not something you're gonna have to scramble out in late August or September, October, and buy buy new this or buy new that. And so the idea was take a look at maybe some of those things that we use every single time we go out hunting or for most of the time that we go out hunting. And what can we do to help make sure that those things are in good condition come fall? First thing that came to my mind was waiters.
• 6:28
  Right? And and the the world of waiters has changed dramatically over the last decade. Just, the advent of new materials and techniques and the way they're putting these things together. So the waiters we have, you know, that we can buy today are, I think, are much better quality than they were when I was growing up when I was a young hunter. So I talked to, I talked to field Norris with shin gear about, what can you do, you know, regardless of the brand, but what can you do to to to help keep those waiters in good shape, for fall?
• 6:57
  You know, his big thing was that a little maintenance goes a long way. Right? And, you know, for me growing up, I take my waiters and I'd hang them upside down in the garage, or I'd throw them in a bag and throw them in the basement and and drag them out of the fall and not really do a whole lot to them. And his thing was that, you know, he's had kind of had a 3 step process that he has to, to just extend their life a little bit. Because as we all know, they're not cheap.
• 7:19
  You know, when you buy a new pair of waiters these days, they are a spending piece of, of equipment. But that's I think that's the mindset shift shift that we need too is to look at them as a real piece of equipment, a real piece of gear that with some with some maintenance, they can, they can last a little bit longer. So we took a 3 step process kind of for taking care of them. And, you know, the first thing he does at the end of the season, and it's probably never too late to do it, is just wash them off. Right?
• 7:42
  Get rid of, take the hose and wash off all the mud, all the the weed seeds and the cattail fragments and everything else is just to clean them off, set them out in the sun, and let them dry. And, after that, he and this is something that he kinda does in a couple different parts, though. He's he takes a kind of like a spray on water repellent. I know he uses, one from Gear Aid that he used. He just basically sprays the front back of the waders, and it's all about kind of rejuvenating that water repellency and kinda creating that layer of protection on those waders.
• 8:16
  And then same thing, he he will do the same kinda thing with, if your waiters have a zipper is that there is a, to there's kind of a gel that you can use to clean it. I mean, I think if you use a a YETI cooler or anything like that that's got a zipper on it, you do the same thing, right, to keep it lubricated and sealed. And then just to make sure that you get sand or mud or anything that's in that zipper out of there because over time, that's gonna damage that zipper and then compromise the integrity of that of that waterproof, ability of that zipper. And so that's kind of the first thing he does. Wash them off, get them dry, and then spray it, the the surface of the material and also at, a material gel on that zipper just to kinda add that protection back in there.
• 8:56
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. No. I mean, that's great. And, you know, like you mentioned, I mean, waiters these days are are quite the investment. And so Yeah.
• 9:03
  John Pollmman: They are.
• 9:04
  Chris Jennings: You know, it really makes sense to, you know, put some time and effort into preserving and even kind of conditioning these things to to last a little bit longer, and I know you mentioned, you know, they're so much better than what you had growing up. I remember when I first started, we had those old canvas waiters that, you know, had no insulation and you'd you know, my buddy stored all of our waiters in his father's garage, you know, in the attic of a garage in, like, September or August. You know, we don't wanna go over there and pull these things out of trash bags, and and a lot of times, they would just crumble. You know?
• 9:41
  John Pollmman: Crumble
• 9:41
  Chris Jennings: like that. Just falling apart and kinda dry rotting. Now I don't know if any additional, steps with those waiters, just the material that they were made of, I'm sure storing them in an attic in a bag probably wasn't a great idea.
• 9:56
  John Pollmman: Probably not.
• 9:56
  Chris Jennings: No. That was probably not a good idea.
• 9:58
  John Pollmman: No. And Phil talks about that too. You know? So first step is about cleaning them off and then applying this. You know, second step is kind of applying this, protectant to the material, into the into the zipper, into the boots as well.
• 10:10
  Right? That's another thing he says is to is to put a, geary treatment on the boots to kinda restore and protect that rubber. But the last thing is how you store them. Right? Which is kind of at the heart of this piece, which is, you know, if you imagine, your waiters, what he recommends is hanging your waiters up by the strap, or sometimes they have a hang strap just high enough so that it kinda looks like the waiters are standing up on their own.
• 10:34
  You don't wanna put any pressure on, on the straps because that'll help kinda wear out that elasticity if there's if there's any there. But hang them just high enough so that the waiters are the boots are flat on the ground and the the the waiters themselves are standing straight up. And then to remove any creases anywhere where the the material is gonna buttch up because that seems to be where you have those problems. Right? And so his recommendation is to hang them.
• 11:00
  If you don't have a place to hang them, you know, you're tight on space. You could even lay them flat on the floor underneath the bed or something like that. But the last the last thing you wanna do, Chris, I hate to say that, is to pile them together in a bag, to bunch them together and throw them someplace, you know, until fall. And it's, you know, when you look at it, they're pretty simple steps. There isn't a whole lot to that.
• 11:21
  You know, that's something that anybody can do. Any age a person can do. Your your kids can do it. But, again, it's about extending the longevity of those waiters and looking at them as what they are. They're an investment these days and, which is great because I think the waiters that we have out there are are a big improvement from what you and I grew up with.
• 11:37
  Chris Jennings: Oh, yeah. And, you know, and and along with waiters, I mean, you can follow these exact same steps for your jackets and parkas.
• 11:45
  John Pollmman: And, you
• 11:46
  Chris Jennings: know, anything, any outer layer like that, you know, clean it off, dry it really well, add some of that durable water repellent, like you mentioned, you know, Gear 8's one brand of it. There's a bunch of them out there. Yep. Zipper, you know, typically, with most, you know, hunting jackets in my experience, a zipper is usually the first thing to go. But, you know, just doing a little bit of maintenance can can save those for at least another year.
• 12:13
  And then, you know, when I was doing a piece several years ago, I had talked to some guys from Drake Waterfowl and, you know, they were talking about, if you can, you know, bring those things inside, bring that jacket inside
• 12:23
  John Pollmman: and
• 12:24
  Chris Jennings: just hang it in a closet, and so I've done that, you know, for a long time now, which is drives my wife insane because after duck season gets over, I basically monopolize an entire closet and then, like, trying to throw her and the kids' stuff out of this closet just to get my jackets hung up. And, but it is something that I've noticed, can make a big difference. So
• 12:46
  John Pollmman: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. My favorite my favorite duck hunt jacket is this old Filson jacket that I bought 25 years ago. And it's worn.
• 12:54
  It's got character. It's it's, you know, one of those pieces, but it's one of the, at the end of the season, I clean it off. I reapply the the, you know, the wax to the to the seams and the end of the jacket itself. And it's gonna be something that I hopefully I pass down to my to my son someday, that he's gonna use. And so it's a lit like, you know, like we say, a little bit of a little bit of maintenance here, goes a long way towards keeping this gear ready towards fall.
• 13:40
  Chris Jennings: The next one on your list is is a big one. We're talking about how expensive, waiters are and all that, but you you got into the duck boat and motor, you know, and a lot of people really use their duck boat during summer as their fishing boat, but, you know, some don't. So, you know, who'd you talk to about this and what were some of the things that you learned about it?
• 13:59
  John Pollmman: Yeah. So, you know, I talked to Rusty Creasy, Rusty in in Arkansas at the Cocoa Woods. And, I I called Rusty just because I know, just from watching his IG, you know, his his Instagram account that he's in about a lot. Yeah. So I know it's something he uses every day, and just kind of, wanted to see what he did, you know, for for his stuff, for his boat motor and trailer, things like that.
• 14:20
  You know? And like you said, a lot of these boats get used year round. Mhmm. And so you're not temper you're not really technically gonna be storing them. But if you do have one that's not gonna get used, you know, basically, when the season gets done, before you put it in the shed, you know, someplace high and dry where it's gonna stay, where it's gonna stay for the summer, just really kinda do a walk around, take a look at it, look for any, any spots that may have gotten, dinged up in during the hunting season, and kind of make those repairs if you can on your own or take it to a boat shop if you need to.
• 14:52
  And and this includes, like, the trailer itself, the the winch if you have 1, safety chains on there if you have them, wiring harnesses, the lights themselves. I remember, a number of trailers that I've used late in the season in South Dakota, and I back them into the back them into a sleuth that's got some ice on it. And, ice, you know, breaks the trailer lights on.
• 15:13
  Chris Jennings: Oh, yeah.
• 15:14
  John Pollmman: You know, so there's always there's always some of that small stuff that you that you need to do. You know, I would add to that making sure that you, that you grease your, the bearings in your, trailer tires and your wheels, to make sure that those are if you're gonna be hauling at places, make sure that you've got that in a safe spot. Other another thing I'd add too is that if you are a younger hunter or or really any hunter and you've never experienced what it's like to have to change a tray a tire on your trailer, do it. You practice it during the off season before you put away so that you know that you have what you need to do it, when you're on the road or on the way to on the way to duck camp? Yeah.
• 15:48
  Just those kinda real world situations. So if you haven't gone through it before, maybe the off season's a good time to do that. And then the last thing, you know, Rusty with his, with his boat motor kinda, again, looks at the prop, see if there's some damage. He gets the part the spark plugs are gonna get changed out. He tries to use up, the gas, or he'll he'll he'll take the gas that, that's in the container and and use that with another boat.
• 16:12
  If he's gonna be sitting all summer, he'll add a little treatment to it to make sure that it that it can sit a while and still be good for fall. And then you put it away. Right? High and dry. Make sure that it stays someplace where it's not gonna get, not gonna get damaged or it's not gonna get, hailed on or anything like that.
• 16:26
  And, if you have a place to put it inside, and then it should be ready to go for fall.
• 16:30
  Chris Jennings: Those are all great tips. And and when you were mentioning the, you know, changing the tire, that's actually really good. You know, for someone who's if someone out there has never done it, you know, it'd be a good idea to go ahead and get your hands on it and try it because when you're doing it at 3:30 in the morning on the side of the road or at a boat ramp, it'd be good to have that firsthand experience to know exactly, you know, the steps to handle that. So Exactly. That's a great idea.
• 16:56
  You know, one thing that kinda just stuck out to me is, you know, you're talking to Rusty. He's in Arkansas. So he's not dealing with the cold weather as much now. You know, growing up running a boat in Indiana, you know, we were very aware that we had to get the water out of the unit, you know, after every hunt. You do not For sure.
• 17:14
  And then, you know, constantly using some type of, you know, gas treatment nonstop. And so that's something for, you know, hunters to to always pay attention to. And especially if you're putting it or what if you do have the opportunity to put it somewhere in store, you wanna make sure that water's out and and really make sure that that that thing's comfortable sitting in cold weather and sitting and not doing anything. So that's just always always something that, you know, I always remind people. But, again, living down here, we have we don't really have that problem, you know, too often.
• 17:46
  It does happen, but, doesn't get that cold. So the next person you talked to is Jake Wallace from Winchester, and I thought this was a good little tip. You know, ammunition, you know, storing you know, again, it's expensive. You know, people are paying big bucks for their ammunition now. You don't want it to go to waste.
• 18:02
  What were some of the things you learned with him?
• 18:04
  John Pollmman: Yeah. You know, I, when I talked to Jake in in the back of my mind, I had you know, I've got some bags of of shells that I've just kinda collected over the years and things that I you know, you change you change your shot shell preference, and so you you switch to a different box of this and that. So I've got a couple of a couple bags in my basement by my, by my, gun cabinet. You know, one's labeled duck and one's labeled goose. And I'm and I was thinking to myself, are these still good?
• 18:27
  Right? You know, they've been there for a few years. Are are there is there anything that I need to be concerned about? And Jake basically said there's no, expiration date on ammo. Right?
• 18:37
  If it's been stored in a in a dry, cool place, it's it should be good to go. But he did mention though that you should be taking taking a look at, if you saw find signs of corrosion, you know, discoloration on the hull, any bulges in any of the any of the cart any of the shells as well. Those would be those would be kind of some warning signs that maybe that's something that you do not want to use. And so what he recommended and and it it it it makes sense is that you can't just throw your bad shotgun shells in the garbage can. Right?
• 19:08
  At least you shouldn't. And so take them to, like, a hazardous hazardous, disposal center. We have one here just a few miles from my house here in South Dakota where you can get rid of those things in a safe manner. But the big thing for him was to, you know, you get done with the season, clean them off. You know, if they're in your blind bag, they get mud or they get dirt or weed seeds or anything on them.
• 19:27
  Clean them off, make sure that there's no discoloration, that they look good, and then put them someplace where if you can climate controlled inside in a basement or whatever, but where they can play stay, dry and cool. And then they should be good to go for next for next fall. And so, you know, with your shotguns itself, you're probably gonna be using that throughout the season if you shoot trap or shoot sporting clays, you know, but I'm not gonna be shooting boss number fours, finish number fours at sporting clays, you know, and that because it's, you know, it just doesn't make sense. And so those shells need to be cool, dry, put some place where they're gonna stay kind of in a in a climate controlled situation. They should be ready for fall.
• 20:01
  Chris Jennings: Yeah. And, I mean, just having you know, going through and inspecting, I've done that. I mean, I do it at the end of every season. Because like you, I end up with, you know, a handful of, you know, shells in this pocket and a handful of shells in this pocket of a bag and going through there and, you know, you're hunting in the rain or the snow or whatever, and you do get moisture in there and you may not notice it. So it's a good idea to look for any of that corrosion that can happen, you know, on the brass or, you know, sometimes, you know, I I've seen shells that have been bent or, you know, even the crimping's kind of worn off where they've either gotten too cold, too hot.
• 20:36
  And so, you know, it's a good idea. There's no sense in in taking any chances in something as dangerous as that. No. You might as well had just had disposed of those properly, and and I'm sure the, the guys at Winchester will be more than happy to, to to sell you a couple extra new boxes of ammo. You know?
• 20:53
  John Pollmman: They tend they tend to have some for purchase every fall, if I'm not mistaken.
• 20:57
  Chris Jennings: That is correct. You know, that's one thing just kinda thinking about that. That's one thing that I do at the end of every season and mainly because I've made the mistakes before where, you know, almost that last day that I come home, you know, I basically dump my blind bag out, entire. Yeah, I clean everything out of it and I actually done that just to share a disaster of a story. I I left everything in a blind bag 1 year and, just set it in my garage in Indiana and came back.
• 21:29
  And I had I had like a I don't know if it was like a brownie or a nut or butter or whatever it was that was in there. And the mice chewed through the bag. And so it basically just ruined the bag. And, and I was like, man, so now at the end of the season, you know, I'm carrying my blind bag up my driveway and I'm thinking, okay. Empty everything out or you're gonna lose this one, you know, but, that's one good thing to do and and that also gets your shells out invisible when I do that.
• 21:57
  I mean, I'm basically just turning it over and dumping everything out and kinda organizing. Obviously, you know, that those were, you know, the highlights of the article. But, you know, we can talk about even gun maintenance. I I think that's the obvious one. That's why I wasn't really I mean, people know they need to clean their gun and store it properly.
• 22:14
  I mean, that's Yeah. Fairly obvious. But any other products, you know, decoys, things like that. Is there anything that you do with your decoys at the end of the season?
• 22:23
  John Pollmman: You know, cleaning them. Honestly, just clean them off. Make sure that they're cleaned up. And and because that's usually if you're gonna run into problems with paint chipping or paint coming off or things of that nature that, you know, sometimes it's because it's been layered. It's been caked in mud or whatever.
• 22:37
  So just getting those cleaned off, checking cords, making sure. And honestly, for me too, it's thinking back to the past season, thinking about, did I, do I need to have 4 foot cords on all of these? Do I need to have longer string? Do I need to go, you know, a different style? That's another that's another decision I make in the off season just to kind of make sure that they the decoys are rigged up the way that I wanna use them.
• 23:00
  You know, going back though to the shotguns for one second, the one thing that has bitten me in the past is, not not taking out my choke tubes.
• 23:09
  Chris Jennings: Oh, yeah.
• 23:10
  John Pollmman: You know, if I've got a if I've got a waterfall gun, you know, and I've been shooting, you know, an extended choke tube or an aftermarket choke tube in it, and I've been shooting it all season, I've actually had it happen where it gets locked inside. I come to sporting clays, that fall or that summer, and I try to take it out and I can't, or maybe it's next that that next fall in September, and I wanna put something more open in for doves, and I cannot get it out. Yeah. I had to take it to a gunsmith and put some heat on it, and they were able to turn it out. But making sure that you have those choke tubes, if if you're gonna leave it in, twist it out, put some lube on the threads, and put it back in, just to save yourself a headache down the road.
• 23:48
  And that is something that I do before, after the seasons are done just to make sure that they're that they're not gonna get locked tight in there. You know, you'd mentioned decoys, trailers, you know, things where you're storing things, even if you've got inside storage inside your topper or inside your truck, if you've got a deck system or something like that, Cleaning those spots out too so you're not caught out, you know, caught on their wares for with a a brownie that's that got that got left behind somewhere. Know, just walking through all of those things that you use throughout the season. As Waterfall Hunters, we have a lot of them. Right?
• 24:19
  Just walking through all of it, empty it out, make sure it's cleaned up, and, and taking stock of what you have, what you use the
• 24:24
  Chris Jennings: next wall. Yeah. And, you know, one other thing to mention, I'd mentioned that I had done a piece similar to this several years ago, and the gentleman that I was talking to was a big layout blind hunter.
• 24:33
  John Pollmman: Oh, sure.
• 24:33
  Chris Jennings: And he had a really good tip that he does not store his blinds on the ground. He's like, man, you have to, like, get these things up and off the ground, like, hanging them on the side of a you know, on the wall of your garage or, you know, somewhere where they're not as easily accessible to mice. He said that's like one of the biggest things with his layouts was, you know, he was storing them in a barn and then come back and there's just, like, holes ripped all through them and, you know, you've got mice having babies in there and it's just a total disaster. So, that's one good thing that he brought up where, you know, he had just put some hooks up in his garage. He was, like, hanging them from the rafters.
• 25:11
  That's how he, that's how he handled his layout blinds, and and you could do the same thing with a frames, you know, just blinds too.
• 25:18
  John Pollmman: Yeah. No. It's a great tip.
• 25:19
  Chris Jennings: Cool, man. This has been fantastic, you know. You know, it's that time of year where we are not quite in the, hey. We're getting ready for duck season, but, you know, it's a good idea. Like you mentioned, if you're gonna make decoy changes, if you're gonna be doing anything, you know, major, you don't wanna wait until, you know, September to do this.
• 25:38
  And you you've got the time now. It's summer. You can sit out in the garage, tinker with some of these things, and and it's it always pays off by the time the season comes around doing the work this time of year.
• 25:47
  John Pollmman: Absolutely. You know, and it always opening day always gets here soon. It does. I mean, we know we have this off season. We have a stretch of time, and some days seem like they drag on.
• 25:56
  But I tell you what, September 1st, mid September, it's gonna be here in no time. And so it's, there's lots of stuff to do in the summer and just make sure these are some of the things that you include on your to do list.
• 26:06
  Chris Jennings: Awesome. Well, this has been great, John. Appreciate you coming on, you know, sharing some of this information with our audience. You know, that's the unique aspect of the, the, section that you work on campus waterfowl. Not every Ducks Unlimited Magazine reader sees that because the variation in ages, you have be between the ages of 12 17 to get the campus waterfowl section.
• 26:26
  So some of the stuff is absolutely brand new conversations and, I'm sure we can we can find many, many more topics to discuss from that perspective.
• 26:34
  John Pollmman: Absolutely. Anytime.
• 26:35
  Chris Jennings: I'd like to thank my guest, John Polman, for coming on the show and talking about summer gear storage. I'd like to thank our producer, Chris Isaac, for putting the show together and getting it out to you, and I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on to you podcast and supporting wetlands conservation.