Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / Rugby's Greatest Rivalry Is Here! Boks vs. All Blacks Predictions

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Rugby's Greatest Rivalry Is Here! Boks vs. All Blacks Predictions · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  It's fantastic having you guys here. At last, it's happening. The passion was so big, it felt like it was hostile. And so I'm standing there with my family, and I said, right, we're standing up for our anthem. And my kids were scared. And I know a lot of people say Jordi Barrett might be the best 12 in the world. I think Damon Darlene is...
• 0:20
  the best 12 in the world. To beat South Africa, you need to have some X Factor players, and I think he's going to be that. He's playing the five-man scrum. It's legal nowadays, do you know that? We're just not going to scrum. We're just going to do a league scrum. The losing person has to wear the opposition jersey for the week. Victor, are you up to wearing an all-black jersey when you guys lose? I'll wear it, but it's not happening, so...
• 0:49
  Welcome to, actually, I was going to say Rugby Rivals, but it's actually Ram Couriers Rugby Rivals. We've got a new naming rights sponsor. Oh, fantastic. Welcome, Ram. Welcome.
• 1:01
  Yeah, welcome to the Ram. Loving it. And I've got some surprises throughout the season from Ram, so more on that later. But let's get straight into it. It's good to see the All Blacks have arrived finally in Cape Town to a magnificent welcome from all the South African All Black fans, of which there's many. So you must have enjoyed that, Victor.
• 1:25
  Yo, it's fantastic having you guys here. At last, it's happening. Friday, first game against the Stormers. It's going to be fantastic, but it's just, it's amazing. And that's what I love about this rivalry. I mean, we go at each other on the field, but I mean, the respect between the countries is just so huge. And we, I think the two countries that love rugby the most. So, I mean, it's your group.
• 1:53
  Best, greatest rivals you can face. So it's just unbelievable. And everyone is excited. We know they've always got a few supporters over here as well. But we're trying to make them less. It has shrinked in the last eight years, but there's still some good support. Yeah, I think that's the first surprise you get when you go to South Africa. I can remember in 92, Riccardo, who?
• 2:17
  We came out of the airport and there was this massive crowd and we were wondering what they were doing there. We thought, oh, what's going on here? Because...
• 2:26
  there's all these people and then we realised they were there for us. Like, what's going on here? And I noticed, I saw a little interview with Cody Taylor who said, you know, I can't believe the passion and the support here. And it does, I mean, one of the things the players need to get used to is that intensity. That's part of touring South Africa is that intensity off the field. Like, everybody...
• 2:50
  is going to say something to you in the street about the game or about how you played. So that's what makes it. Like you said, Victor, that's the most exciting thing. It just becomes so intense. And when you win, it even gets more intense.
• 3:08
  I was just saying I was lucky enough to be invited in to talk to the team before they left about, I interviewed a few of the 96 All Blacks about what it takes to beat South Africa. And the one thing that sort of was the theme that everyone spoke about was there's just no escape in South Africa. Like everywhere you go.
• 3:29
  People are talking to you about the game. They're telling you how they're going to scrum you, how they're going to beat you, what they're going to do. It's just everywhere. And when you tour South Africa, it's just the most intense rugby experience of your life, I'd say, because you just do not switch off from it. I think one of the most amazing things is straight afterwards. One of the experiences I'll always remember is I was over there, was it 2.11, something like that, with my kids,
• 3:59
  and we went to the test match. That was the test match with Didmar, no, Israel Dag scored at the end, like most amazing, intense. But in the crowd beforehand, like it felt the passion was so big, it felt like it was hostile. And so I'm standing there with my family, like there's me, my kids and my wife, and we're amongst South Africans, right?
• 4:24
  And the intensity was palatable. And we had to get up for the anthems. And I said, right, we're standing up for our anthem. You know what I mean? And we're singing as loud as we can. And my kids were scared. I said, you don't need to be scared, man. You need to be proud. No, Dad, these people don't like us. I said, yeah, they love us, man. This is just a rivalry. But you can actually sense it. And you've got to be really careful. You don't worry too much about it.
• 4:54
  So, you know, she's shake hands and get on with it, which is fun. Yeah, but I mean, we've spoken about it before. And I mean, this is not like football where they need to separate spectators, have the All Blacks that side, Springboks that side.
• 5:11
  I mean, yes, they will have a go at you while the game is on, and it will feel hostile. But I mean, like we've said, the moment the fans get the players in the streets, they'll be fans. They'll go up. They want autographs. They want photos. They want to spend time with them. They just want to say hello to the all-black players. So although it feels very hostile at the stadium, and of course it needs to be like that, but when they get them away from the game, everyone will just love it.
• 5:41
  Yeah, I mean, the most hostile is you two, really. Look, J.K., thanks for those glasses you're making, but look, I've got some green ones. And look at that. No DNA, only RSA. But I can't read with them.
• 6:06
  I'm surprised it didn't have, we won four World Cups along the way. Yeah. You have to put that on the other side. Oh, I'm going to make one after the next one. Triple World Cup champions. Let's just go back. You know, so Ramcure is our sponsors. They're about delivering under pressure. So who do you think, I'll start with you, Victor. Who do you think is the South African player that will deliver under pressure in this test series?
• 6:32
  Yeah, I've said it before. I think we've got two key players in South Africa team, and that's probably not the two you think you're going to mention. I think Jasper Wisser is going to be huge in this tour. And then the other one that's actually my Ram career player under pressure is Damon Dalete. Just the work rate that he puts in. I think Sasha will probably be back, keeping him calm in that 10 jersey.
• 7:02
  helping him with making the right calls and just almost organizing the whole attack. So for me, the player that's going to come through under pressure, and I know a lot of people say Jordi Barrett might be the best 12 in the world. I think we'll see after this tour. I think Damon Dalen is the best 12 in the world, and he's been the best 12 in the world for a pretty long time. J.K.?
• 7:30
  No, I'm going to put a bet on that. I think that Geordie Barrett will come out of this series as the best. So there's a little side bet. But I think Roygaard has, over the last sort of 24 months,
• 7:47
  matured into one of these X-Factor halfbacks, you know, and I think that to beat South Africa, you need to have some X-Factor players, and I think he's going to be that. And I think that under pressure, you know, he'll step up. And then I'm really interested to see how Bowdoin goes this week against the Stormers. He's already been named by Dave Rennie because I think that –
• 8:13
  He's got X factor. He's got that moment in time, that break a game moment, and that's even off the bench, you know. So I think there was a game a few years ago, was it South Africa at Eden Park, where he came on. So I'm pretty sure that he'll go from playing against the Stormers to at least the bench, and so I think him and Roy Gard will be the point of difference. Now,
• 8:36
  Victor, you might have. Then I'll just come in with another side pitch. We're talking about under pressure, you're talking about X-Factor players. I don't understand what's the thing. So if we go X-Factor players, can we put a side pitch between Roygaard and Grant Williams who's going to have the most impact in the games? Yeah, well, that's probably important. No, it's probably an important distinction.
• 8:59
  I probably explained myself wrongly. Bowdoin has X Factor at an under-pressure moment. So under pressure, I believe he can do something that will change the game. So you think Love's gone again? Pardon? So is Love not the guy that needs to perform? Well, yeah, I think that Ruben Love...
• 9:21
  is growing into that position. And I think that if he continues to perform, then he'll get the start, but that Bowdoin will be involved in some way. And I think, you know, to be put on in a test match nowadays with 25 minutes to go under pressure and you've got to do something for your team, I think Bowdoin will be one of those players.
• 9:47
  J.K., can I ask you, do you think the All Blacks showed South Africa everything they're going to do in the last three tests? The way they're going to play the game, you know, who's going to start, et cetera, et cetera. Do you think that what we saw in the three tests against France and Italy, et cetera, is what they'll do? Or do you think they've got something up their sleeve?
• 10:09
  I think they'll have something up their sleeve, but I don't think it'll, I think we've shown how we wanna play. And I think when you think about South Africa, you know what their DNA will be when they get put under pressure. You know they'll be kicking the high ball. They know, you know that they'll be putting pressure on the scrum.
• 10:28
  and I want to come back to my other player that's going to step up under pressure. So, yeah, no, I think that there'll be little components of the game where we'll try and surprise, but the DNA of the All Blacks, I think, is heading in the right direction. And I think at this level, Victor, it's very, very hard to hide stuff nowadays, even from an organisational point of view, because you've got to be able to –
• 10:55
  you know, be organized. And there might be a five-man scrum they throw in, or three-man, or there might be something that they do differently from a tactical point of view. No. But anyway, before I finish, I just wanted to say that the third… Explain the five-man scrum. He's a back. Ignore him. Explain the five-man scrum. Yeah, exactly. It's legal nowadays. You know that? We're just not going to scrum. We're just going to do a league scrum.
• 11:21
  What's the guy? What's he talking about? Well, I'll tell you. Yeah, no, what I'm saying is that we need to come up with some surprises that will throw you off your game. And that's what I was going to come back to the last bit. I think for us to win in South Africa, the whole forward pack needs to be absolutely exceptional. So that would be my third, you know. When you're a forward, you know what's coming in South Africa. And...
• 11:48
  I'll say this, but if you could cut it out of the video, South Africa have been leading the way from a scrum point of view from a forward pack point of view in the last little while. So we've got to at least match that, and we've got to scrum incredibly well. We won't win if we can't come out of the Test Series by being at least equal in that scrum. So if we win the series, which I think we will, then the forward pack will have to be heroes, all eight of them,
• 12:18
  and wait till you see the five-man scrum victor you wanna you guys won't know what to do you know what i think they should do i think the whole team should run out and in the national anthem they should all be wearing glasses like you've got jk that's what would throw that will throw us a bit yeah so victor what are we gonna see from the stormers you know your beloved stormers team what are we gonna see from them
• 12:45
  Yeah, it will be interesting. I'd like to see the team they're going to pick. Of course, the two main guys, Saschan, Damian, Kürbis Reinach, are not there. But they did play pretty well in the beginning of the UFC without them as well, when they were injured.
• 13:05
  The Stormers do have a good back. I think they will try and put the All Blacks under pressure at scrum time as well. They've got a pretty good scrum, even without the Springboks there. And then they probably, the team in South Africa with the most X-factor. So a guy like Warwick Ghalad, you never know what you expect from him at the back. He makes all of us nervous. So for even the fans as well. But I think they'll have a go. They want to play expansive games.
• 13:34
  and see if they can upset the All Blacks. So, yeah, it's going to be a nice first game. Do you think deep down in your heart they can beat the All Blacks? No, don't think so. I've said it. I think it's going to be very tough for any of our teams to beat the All Blacks.
• 13:54
  If you look at the teams, it's probably either the Stormers or the Bulls or maybe even the Lions because the Lions don't really have any players at their spring box. They play together and it's a midweek game where these other games are before the series start. But that game against the Lions is between two test matches. So maybe there's just a little opportunity there.
• 14:21
  I think the thing that is –
• 14:26
  The nicest thing if you're the Stormers, I remember playing for Auckland against the British and Irish Lions, right? And you have this excitement without the pressure. It's actually a really neat game to play because you've got absolutely nothing to lose. Nothing to lose. And that's always hard when you're playing, you know? Like you're excited, you're playing for some of these guys, playing the All Blacks. Like for me, playing the British and Irish Lions, I was only like 20 or something.
• 14:53
  And I always remember the excitement without the pressure because it's not a, you know, there's nothing to lose. So that will be in their favour. I'm really interested to see what the level is of the URC, basically, because that's probably what we're, you know, in the old curry cup or whatever you call it now. But I'll be really interested to see what the level is. And I think that'll be a really good gauge for us as well about –
• 15:20
  A lot of these guys will be trying to play themselves into test matches, which is important, and they now get an opportunity. I think one thing Dave Rennie will do is he will, as he's already done, change people week to week in test matches and games. So I think he's trying to create some internal rivalry with positions, which I think is healthy. How many players did you use in those first three test matches, Joko?
• 15:47
  How many players did you use in the first three test matches? I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure he used about 27 or 28 players. So that's a bad match change. I think we've used 46. Yeah, you did right, Victor. And I think that's... So you didn't change that much.
• 16:08
  Well, but we did compare to the last regime, you know. He did compare to, you know, what Razor did. Razor had a different style, you know. He didn't change his players. So for us to change that many when you win was a good move forward. I also think he had to keep the balance of making sure that he kept the continuity when he was playing some of the new players like Ruben Love. So, yeah, you're right. Not as many as South Africa have done, but a move in the right direction, I believe.
• 16:38
  Can I just point out that when the All Blacks beat South Africa in 96, they had exactly the same pack every game? Yeah, those times have changed, Ricardo. You used to have here back then. I think we'll see back to the holidays for test matches. I think you'll see 80% of the team stay the same for the match.
• 17:04
  these matches. So I think they're going to throw their best team at it every week. What are we going to see from South Africa against Argentina, Victor?
• 17:14
  Yeah, we actually picked a very strong side. I thought we'll keep more guys behind. We only kept seven of our probably starters back in South Africa. But there's a lot of guys that need game time. I mean, if you go through that pack, I mean, guys like Thomas and actually Walker haven't even played 80 minutes yet. So it's important for them to play. Irvin hasn't played for a long time. Sia hasn't played for a long time.
• 17:43
  Sascha is back. Kubis Reinach also actually came back from an injury. So yeah, it's a pretty strong team that we're taking overseas. I see Rossi is talking about maybe playing Andre Estreason at 8. But Damien Dalen is not on tour. So you will probably see him at 12 on this tour.
• 18:08
  Yeah, very strong side and I think Rossi wants to keep that momentum. He wants that confidence. We've struggled in the last few years over in Argentina. So I think he took a strong team to go show what we can do. Yeah. One of the things that's going to be a big feature of this tour, I'd imagine, would be the amount of clippies and coke consumed during the tour by South African fans.
• 18:34
  It's going to be by buckets. You want to, guys, order glasses? It will be bottles with a full two-liter. So, no, it's going to go well. It's going to be a lack of years. People are going to have funds. So, yeah, it's going to be a lot of kippies premium being consumed.
• 18:53
  jk you're heading down there so you'll be um sharing one with victor i'd imagine totally can't wait can't wait to put it in my little glass with my little couple of cubes of ice and just two cubes of ice yeah yeah so okay when you're over i'm looking forward to i'm looking forward to the poor i'm over the week of the first test yeah okay so you're missing the bulls game otherwise i needed to take you out friday bright
• 19:19
  On purpose, I don't really want to see you. I don't think you survived. We'll kill him. We'll kill you. I mean, it's a hard one, but have you got a clip-drip moment of the week, JK? No, I haven't, actually. I don't have anything because I didn't watch any rugby at all this weekend. There was no rugby that I could watch, really. I'm still in Italy. There was a little bit of...
• 19:47
  little bit of MPC stuff going on, but. But what about your clip trip of the moment, uh, clip trip moment of the week? Is the all blacks arriving at Newlands? No, that's my clip. Sorry. That's my clip. Yeah. So no, no, for me, it's just, and I thought about this, but I mean, uh, we really have a go at each other. Um,
• 20:12
  But I mean, just the love between the two countries is unbelievable. I love to see it because that's what rugby is about. We go at each other, but there's respect. I mean, there's no other team that you want to play against than the All Blacks. That's how you want to test yourself. And even for our fans, just to see the...
• 20:32
  All Blacks over here in South Africa get to meet them face to face, especially now that we don't play super rugby. So I think it's even more special because we don't get the players over here that often. So for me, clip drift moment of the week is just the respect and the love between the two countries.
• 20:51
  I think, yeah, to elaborate on that, I think for me there was a couple of clips that I watched where a couple of the boys were outside playing on, like, the drums with some of the locals. I thought that was really cool. And then the welcome in the hotel by all the workers singing. I thought that was really beautiful as well, you know. It's just one of those things that, you know, really –
• 21:15
  You do a lot of tours where you walk into the hotel room, you know, you walk into a hotel, it's another weekend, it's tough, you move all your bags, but you know, moments like that are pretty special, and that's why I think South Africa will be special, you know, those moments in time.
• 21:32
  Or we've got this new thing called the team room, which is on rugbyrivals.com. So we're going to go to the team room and carry on this discussion. So if you want to join us, sign up at rugbyrivals.com. But in the meantime, you guys still haven't come up with a bet yet for what happens when the other team wins. So I suggested to JK that maybe...
• 21:56
  The losing person has to wear the opposition jersey for the week on the show. But JK wasn't keen on it. That's a hard one. So are we doing per test match? He's got a Strimbo jersey right behind. He can just put it on. He can put it on now for the four weeks because he knows he's losing. Just get ready. Well, that would be a very, very hard one for me to agree to. Victor, are you up to wearing an all-black jersey when you guys lose?
• 22:27
  I'll wear it, but not happening, so I'm in. I'm not saying he's confident. He's just not even going to bother getting an all-black jersey organized. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so you've got two springboard jerseys behind you. I'm happy to do that, Riccardo, if Victor's up for it. I've got a few all-black jerseys in my cupboard. Don't worry. That's good.
• 22:54
  And that small little one on my window in my home office, remember? Yeah. I don't know if our forwards are quite big enough for you. Maybe they're just a bit this more. All right. Well, we're going to go to the teamroomrugbyrivals.com. Come and join us. Otherwise, we'll see you next week.