Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Inside Titan Wealth: James Kaberry & Andrew Fearon on Consolidation, Private Equity and the Future of Financial Advice

Transcript

Inside Titan Wealth: James Kaberry & Andrew Fearon on Consolidation, Private Equity and the Future of Financial Advice · Financial Planner Life Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of talk in financial planning at the moment about consolidation and private equity, but not enough honest conversations.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: In this episode, I want to just slow this down.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm joined by James Cabery and Andrew Firon, the co-founders of Titan Wealth, a founder-led IFA business of around 1,400 people.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: They manage roughly£44 billion and are expanding internationally.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: We start with their journey into the profession and why they chose to build at scale rather than stay small.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: We talk about leadership as a business grows, what really changes at size and the emotional reality of selling a firm.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: The identity shift, the come down, and why integration is about people, not just process.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: We tackle private equity head-on.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: Look at what scale actually enables and why international advice across borders is becoming essential.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: And we finish on one simple concept: one Titan.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: What does that mean in practice?
1:09
SPEAKER_01: So let's get to it.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Circa 44 billion under management, 1,400 staff in the business.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't sound like things are slowing down.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: And to top it off, you're now guests on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about that?
1:34
SPEAKER_01: Very excited.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Sam.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: For those that don't know either of you, okay, um, can you just tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up at Titan together?
1:43
SPEAKER_01: So, James, we can kick off first.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, you've ruined my entrance.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: I thought he was gonna start.
1:48
SPEAKER_02: Um so I was our our uh opium gambit was um crikey.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: I've been in financial planning and stockbreaking since I was 16 years of age.
1:58
SPEAKER_02: Um I had a financial planning business uh called Pantheon from age 30 through till uh crikey, um sort of 41, 42.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I eventually sold it out to Ascot Lloyd back in 2019.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: I was at a um a bit of a loss, I was doing other things as well, and um I approached Andrew, who was an introduction, um, to actually help find some funding to go again.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: And um Andrew came to me, we had a chat, and um he said, Well, I've actually just created uh a business and uh called IWP, which ties in this story very neatly.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: And he said, Um, you know you might know something about financial planning.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, a little bit, but not much.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: And uh he said, Well, will you be a Ned on the board?
2:51
SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay, great.
2:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, let's go for it, let's have a chat.
2:55
SPEAKER_02: And uh I was there at the opening of um IWP.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: About a year later, um, obviously COVID was getting close.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: And um we sat down and we thought, okay, fine.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Andrew wasn't uh directly involved.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: You said uh you weren't on the board, were you?
3:13
SPEAKER_02: You were um I wasn't on the board.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: You were on the board, um uh but on the main board.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: And um we suddenly thought, well, there's an opportunity actually within DFMs, so discretionary fund managers.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: And we thought, well, nobody has done a buy and build in the DFM space, and there is an opportunity here, which there's a lot of consolidators.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: There are 30 or five, maybe even more consolidators.
3:35
SPEAKER_02: So we thought, well, why don't we look at the DFM space, which um to all intents and purposes are the ones who are looking after all the money, and there are about I think there are a thousand in the UK um DFMs, yet there are 15,000 plus um IFAs.
3:52
SPEAKER_02: So um we went about that and we started the thought process.
3:56
SPEAKER_02: And um Andrew had a lot of connections with different people from the creation of IWP, and that's where we went.
4:04
SPEAKER_02: It was fairly easy uh to start um raising money, um, having an agreement on what we were trying to do in terms of build what we wanted to do and where we wanted to build it out to.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Um and then it continued.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we we get on um like a house on fire.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: I think in reality, yin and yang is always quoted at us.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: Um which one he is, but anyway, he looks like a yang to me.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: But anyway, what's the difference anyway?
4:30
SPEAKER_02: What is the difference?
4:31
SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but um uh I think the interesting thing is that our skill sets overlap, probably to the tune of 50 to 75 percent, and then we've got peripheral stuff.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: I think the critical bit and where we've gone from day one is trust when you trust the other person to sit alongside and help, and vice versa, uh, and we get on and do our uh stuff.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: So it's been um pretty much a um marriage made in heaven uh from that perspective.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we have a greater team around us where we've brought in and people that we know and um want to do exactly the same thing.
5:04
SPEAKER_02: So the start of it, and to go back to it, we wanted to create something in the DFM space.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: We've pivoted, obviously, um, in the process for that.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: The end game was to look after clients in a um a very centric way and to provide them with all the services that maybe not have been provided before.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: I think we had an advantage going into COVID or coming out of COVID, the other side of it, is that we had a balance sheet.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: We'd managed to uh raise sufficient capital to go and make some strategic purchases.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: And I think from that, what we were really um resolute about doing was giving clients a full stack service across the board and to um do it in a way, I won't say necessarily i i it is definitely in a cost-effective way, but to give them something is a service proposition and to make sure that they have something that I don't think is necessarily provided elsewhere.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that we are unique.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: What I'm saying is that we do things to the best of our ability, and that has been throughout every strategic acquisition that we've done.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay, love it.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: Great.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: We're a bit of a ramble.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: That's all right, that's great.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: So obviously, Andrew, your background as well.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Now you tell us a little bit about your background and your side of the story.
6:17
SPEAKER_03: I'll leave now.
6:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll be quicker as well.
6:20
SPEAKER_03: So I started life as a corporate lawyer and did that until I was 30.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't really cut out to be a corporate lawyer, so I decided to move on into other things.
6:30
SPEAKER_03: Got involved in various technology businesses.
6:32
SPEAKER_03: Um was involved in running an AIM company in my early 30s and then moved into capital fundraisings for businesses, IPOs, etc.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: Hence, I'd got involved in raising capital for uh the IWP buy and build, and certainly MA and capital raisings are sort of my skill sets.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, that's what I enjoy doing.
6:50
SPEAKER_03: And um uh the partnership with James was complimentary because obviously he'd been involved in running financial services businesses before.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: Um the uh Titan uh project was really to look at scaling and and and buying businesses, but we always knew that we would uh ultimately end up with advice as the at the root at the heart of the business because that's where the client sits.
7:15
SPEAKER_03: And so that's been the big focus for us.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think um we've we've had we've had some problems, we've bought some businesses that haven't worked, as everyone will know, but we've also had some great successes, and and and as we get bigger, the successes get greater.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: Um the big thing that we are uh apart from being focused on UK is really the international push to make us a differentiator in market.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: And so now we're very focused on growing the international business so that wherever clients move, we can look after them.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Which I'm hugely excited about.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: The international side, you know, the acquisition over there of a black tower that's going through at the moment in the US, the US market to me is super, super exciting.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: And I've stepped my foot into the international space.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: I was over in Dubai working for uh another company out there um as a head of creative, so I've really kind of got my my understanding of the international market and the opportunity out there.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh for those that don't know though, uh Andrew, what is the opportunity in the international space?
8:07
SPEAKER_01: What do you see?
8:08
SPEAKER_03: So we're really focused on expats, we're not really focused on local people, uh local markets.
8:13
SPEAKER_03: So the focus on expats and and looking after um UK citizens wherever they may relocate.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: So that includes the US.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: So we're not looking to advise US citizens, we're very much looking to look after uh clients as they move geographically abroad for whatever reason retirement, um tax, um opportunity, employment, etc.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: etc.
8:36
SPEAKER_03: And the key jurisdictions really are US, um, Europe, um, Switzerland to a degree, um, Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, UAE, uh, and as far flung as Australia.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: And that's really the geographical spread that we'll have by the end of this year.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: When you start talking to companies out there about your movements into the international space and the success that you're having, these companies that you're talking to, these firms, mainly possibly UK-based as well as international, but are they quite excited about the global impact that you're having and the opportunity to move into that borderless advice space?
9:11
SPEAKER_03: An interesting one, isn't it?
9:13
SPEAKER_03: I think they are.
9:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think um a lot of them have come from the UK.
9:16
SPEAKER_03: So you'll find a lot of the advisors we deal with came from the UK and probably one day we'll relocate back to the UK.
9:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, and from a client perspective, um, I mean, since we left the EU, and a number of advisors don't even realise this in the UK, they cannot advise a client the moment they leave the UK shores.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: So they they lose them to other places.
9:36
SPEAKER_03: So from a UK advisor perspective, um, the advisors in the UK are excited by the fact they don't lose the client.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, and having that sort of ability to to advise clients uh within relevant geographies um is is is critical to that.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: And within the same firm as well.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: So I mean that's the exciting bit.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: And we're already seeing that.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: We're seeing it from IWP acquisition and prior to even being acquired, we're seeing it from the AHR as we did in uh the Middle East and back in.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: And so and the same with the Channel Islands.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we get it all the time.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And also that repatriation as well, isn't it?
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Clients are going away, they're moving abroad, but they're also coming back.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: So having the ability to continue that advice as they return, you know, is super exciting.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And I've been speaking to a number of people within the business, and they, you know, they're really positive about that repatriation side of it as well.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: That's that seems like a real winner for them, especially in the private client side as well, where we're seeing a lot of movement, right?
10:26
SPEAKER_02: I think the I think private clients with the way that we're doing this get a benefit all across the board.
10:32
SPEAKER_02: They get a consistency by either of the advisor, maybe not of the advisor sometimes, but the service is exactly the same.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: So whether you're in here, Guernsey, Jersey, uh, wherever you happen to be, Middle East, US, Europe, it'll be, and I'm not uh isolating any of those, but it's exactly the same service.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And we can spread that across the board.
10:51
SPEAKER_02: It's I mean, we've grown we've grown, I'd say exponentially, but we've grown quite quickly.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're 25 acquisitions down, um, with more to come.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: I think the service proposition whether uh within Titan is second to none.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: I think everything from precious metals all the way through to fund management, through to advice, through to tax.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Um you name it, we have it.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: And I think that was what we set out originally to do was to be an all-encompassing service within financial services.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: And that doesn't matter whether you're a client or whether you're joining us as part of the partnership as the team, um, and i.e., people that's selling their business to us, joining us, whatever it happens to be, it should be attractive.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: And we uh and the management team, with the exception of our lawyers out here on my left, um, have had financial services experience.
11:44
SPEAKER_02: And I think that is critical.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think where we want to go is you need to have experience in those fields and also wonder what clients actually want.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we I've been doing this since I was 16, I'm 55 now.
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Um you get a feel of roughly what clients want.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: And the consistency of service is absolutely key.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: I think that um uh if you say it, just do it.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: And if you don't know it, ask it.
12:10
SPEAKER_02: And I think if we keep on going on those premises, then in which case we're in a pretty good uh space.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, when no one would ever say that we're perfect, but we're trying to go that way.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I do think though, I'm gonna challenge you on that.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: I think people coming into financial planning, financial services from other professions, I think they add a huge amount of value.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: A different perspective is often taken when somebody say comes from a legal background, they see things differently.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: I've seen that myself with some of the people that I've worked with in the past.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: I myself, you know, I came 16 years in recruitment straight into a C C level role last year within a financial planning firm.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And I made a hugely positive impact within that business because I'm not kind of locked in in that kind of mindset.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: So I think I challenge you on that, that some people coming out, coming in from other professions or other industries can have some serious value, I think.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: You're right.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: I think they can do.
12:56
SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, if you look at our, I'm just you know, you know all the characters involved.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you look at marketing and they've got FMCG background.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I think that we do and we have lawyers who work for us.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: We've got people in HR who've worked for massive, large, very large businesses.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, you've got a whole scope.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: We have a you know, CTO who's worked for multiple tech companies, I mean scale tech companies.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: I think that is definitely important when you're growing.
13:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we've gone from 70 people to 1400.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's quite it's quite a challenge.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: And you, you know, you're permanently fielding questions left, right, and centre.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes it's um it gets an interesting dynamic.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think at the end of the day, you try and take the best out of people.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: That's what you're trying to do, and utilize that for the benefit ultimately of the client.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: PE is often seen as the kind of devil in a cottage industry, such as financial planning.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Why why do you think it's perceived that way?
13:54
SPEAKER_03: I think so.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: First of all, the cottage industry needs to grow up.
13:58
SPEAKER_03: The irregulator wants the cottage industry to grow up.
14:01
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't want so many directly authorised businesses.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: And there's this whole retirement thing going on in the industry where these businesses were started 30, 35 years ago and the owners were in their late 50s, early sixties.
14:13
SPEAKER_03: So they it there's it it needs consolidating on a number of fronts.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: The only way to do it is with financial backing, and the only real way to do that is with private equity because they're the main backers in any sector, in any uh consolidation sector.
14:27
SPEAKER_03: Um my experience of private equity is generally uh actually they're they're often pretty good guys, provided you deliver a return for them, because they've invested to get a return.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: If you don't deliver a return, then they'll have to get more involved to make sure they don't lose their money, because ultimately they're responsible to their investors who are often um pension funds, etc.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: etc.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, that actually look after the the very assets for the clients that the advisors are looking after if you get my set amount of drift.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: So I think um yes, private equity does have uh a negative uh connotation, not least because of things like Barbarians at the gates in the late 80s when um um Nabisco was was aggressively taken over by KKR.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: If you haven't seen the film, you should.
15:12
SPEAKER_03: But um actually I think now these days private equity, and there are some exceptions, uh are pretty good people to work with and for.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: So less of a threat, but more of an enabler for you guys then in Titan Wealth.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: Can you kind of go into detail about how PE can actually enable a business like yours for good?
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Not saying that they do things bad, I'm just saying like a lot of people think it's bad because everyone everyone's negative about it.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: I think the I mean this this is already I mean it's an interesting and um it's an interesting space.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: I think the reality is it depends whether you want them.
15:49
SPEAKER_02: People think that they get involved in the business, and as Andrew has already touched on, if the business is going wrong, they will step in to protect their investment.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: In some of these cases, they've they're protecting tens of millions of pounds, if not hundreds of millions of pounds.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I think the reality is, is in our case, um our P investors are um voluntarily invested, they're interested in invested in our well-being and the company's well-being.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I think that um they're there as a capital provider.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: No matter what anyone says, in the way that this business has evolved.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can give you a detail that, you know, I used to, when I first started out doing buy and builds back in 2000, which is our my first purchase ever in this space, and I bought a business called Braybins, which is based down in Beckham.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: We paid three and a half times EBITDA.
16:39
SPEAKER_02: That was all we paid.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: And it had to be consistent, it had to be three years, it wasn't growing, it wasn't last 12 months or run rate or anything of these factors.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: The world has moved on, and because of the consistency of income that that's provided.
16:55
SPEAKER_02: The multiples have changed.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: There's no one the banks can't play in this game because they can't physically lend you money to do these purchases.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: So it it PE has evolved, and if they didn't have the money and capacity there, there would be a problem.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: There wouldn't be a uh buying and a selling of the market at all.
17:15
SPEAKER_02: And so I I can only say I know where your comments are coming from, and the perception of P, that probably means that the people don't understand PE and have never worked with P along the lines.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: And probably, by the way, there are good PE people to have and bad PP PU people.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's with everything.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: There's probably good IFAs and there's bad IFAs.
17:35
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't, you know, it's the same sort of thing.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: So how does Tyson's model differ from highly leveraged or short short-term plays?
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, you I've spoken to both of you at quite length and and listened to some of your strategy meetings, and it's not a quick business.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're here for a you're here for a long time.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: So how does it differ from the short-term play?
17:56
SPEAKER_03: Well, first of all, um every buy and build requires a degree of leverage because debt is the only way you can actually scale with because otherwise you don't get the equity returns.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: So if you look at the insurance sector, you look at all these different sectors, look at fire and safety, whatever the sector, there needs to be an element of borrowing in there.
18:13
SPEAKER_03: Um in terms of our strategy is a long-term strategy.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you do see some private equity groups go in and sell within three years and they sell to someone else, and it's not really the best outcome for uh the people in the business.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: Um that's not our strategy.
18:28
SPEAKER_03: Our strategy is a much longer play, and so is our backers Parthenon.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: They are long-term investors, and hopefully we'll bring in other investors to sit alongside them at some point in the future so we can create a long-term capital base and bring the next generation through in the group.
18:43
SPEAKER_03: That's a key thing for us.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: Because, you know, James is about to turn 56, he'll always tell you he's he's he's younger than me, but we're they're at the same school, I am 56.
18:52
SPEAKER_03: We're not going to be doing this in 15 years' time.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: Um we'll be too old and too grey.
18:57
SPEAKER_03: And I think so next generation.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: So, how do you create a capital structure that allows that to fulfill itself?
19:02
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: I have another answer to that as well.
19:04
SPEAKER_02: Actually, the reality is if it's a highly leveraged structure, it means that it's got there and it's fallen apart.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Doesn't mean anything else.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: Because don't think that PE and private debt go into these things to have an overly leveraged structure.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: They do not.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Um so I my argument would be if it's got to that stage stage, there's a problem fundamentally in the business.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: Gotcha.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Back to something back to something.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you carry on.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: No, I was gonna say the one other thing that people and this is where you you IWP went wrong.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: You just just running a buy and building financial services is not sufficient because these earnouts are never self-financing because everyone forgets you've got to pay profit on them, etc.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: So what you need to do is you need to have uh an element of other services and solutions in the group that add to that revenue creation.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: That's where the value comes, it's critical.
19:55
SPEAKER_03: And if people don't have that in a consolidation play, they will ultimately struggle with leverage.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: Gotcha.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: You mentioned earlier, as you scale got bigger, you feel like it's gotten a bit easier.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Is that how does that benefit the client?
20:08
SPEAKER_01: How does that benefit the advisor?
20:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure it's got easier for us personally, but um not sure it does either.
20:15
SPEAKER_03: But I think it's got better because as we scale, we've got broader products and services.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: We've also managed to bring the management of the group, the team within us, are working very succinctly with each other across different and so they've everyone's found their place, everyone knows where their strengths are, and that in itself brings it it brings um solidity to the group.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: So um, and and we've seen that as well in in in internationally, you know, the guys in Dubai very much wanting to get more involved in the group.
20:46
SPEAKER_03: People in the channel lines really wanted to get more involved in the group, and they are, and that brings that brings solidity, that brings strength and depth uh across the business, which has been a real um a real pleasing factor to see in 25, and we'll see it continue in 26.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Definitely agreed.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: The the Channel Islands and the Dubai team, along with you two as well, and Mike Fogdon, it's kind of my exposure to the business, and everyone's got a huge amount of energy, especially from that side.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: So you can definitely tell there's a there's a keenness to get involved in the group at that level.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: And when you brought me along to that strategy day, for me it was like a behind-the-scenes look at some of the top brains in your business all coming together and you know, working out these solutions to push the business forward.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: And there was a very open conversation there, you know, it was like share your ideas, it was bringing people into the actual conversation.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Is James, is this something that you really are passionate about?
21:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like creating a culture of entrepreneurialism.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: We have to.
21:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, there's no way uh that um we can keep on going and growing without having that you call it entrepreneurialism.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: I think I I quite like it, but I think it's just open thought listening to people, making sure that um either you can't run a a company of this size just by yourself.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it would either have to be a complete dictatorship, which is not.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Um I think what you have to allow people is a bit of a space to actually explore.
22:05
SPEAKER_02: And and when I say explore, I mean come up with ideas that they think they can run with.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: I was brought up on the basis that I was given enough rope to hang myself.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think that is so if I go back to you know when being 16 through to uh 25, uh literally going out there and you put the work in, you see what see um see what you uh the seeds that you sow, and then effectively see what comes back.
22:30
SPEAKER_02: If you work hard, to be honest, you allow people to grow as well, both in themselves and in the company.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh it gives them accountability, it gives them the fact that they can get on and do things.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think culturally across the beast, we've done that from day one.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: Um because we don't know everything.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, whether um Andrew knows anything about, say, financial planning, the actual in-depth bit.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying I do either, by the way.
22:55
SPEAKER_02: And so you bring good people in around you, and we have a great team.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: We have a fantastic team, and I think we have developed that over the last four years.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, we've had some uh right ones and we've had some wrong ones.
23:07
SPEAKER_02: And that's not pointing, it's just culturally, that is how we want to go.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: And we want to have the depth of talent that we can call on to utilize and to put out um that benefits everybody, both the company and the clients ultimately.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: And we've got that.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: I think we've done that um and continue to do it.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: It just gets a harder task, and I think that's going back to your original point, has life become easier?
23:32
SPEAKER_02: It's easier because of scale, because you can actually go and get depth of talent.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: It's harder because um I think we work 24-7 anyway.
23:41
SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not like we sit back and uh relax.
23:44
SPEAKER_02: So I think you've always got to be watching what's going on.
23:47
SPEAKER_02: Having the international space, by the way, is inter interesting because you brings a whole new dynamic.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, Andrew and I are moving around, I'm gonna say the globe.
23:56
SPEAKER_02: Sounds really grandiose, that does it's bollocks, and it's also not um it's not that exciting.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: Um it's exciting that you're growing a business, but uh moving around on a I won't say daily basis, but certainly a weekly basis is quite hard work.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: And what we've got is a great team.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the team I would say is second to none.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: And just to add, culture is the critical thing.
24:21
SPEAKER_03: The right culture, no corporate stuff, the right culture's critical.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: So I just came back from Birmingham where we met all the a lot of the advisors at IWP.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: Um, and the key message there is entrepreneurship culture, but also uh we'll listen and we'll also um explain and to tell everyone what's going on.
24:42
SPEAKER_03: So communication, you get all of those things and you continue them, and you're out and about seeing people, then it's not a big corporate sort of elephant in the room.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: You you know, you're on the ground, and that's critical, and that's really our main role now.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: I just think it's admirable as well that you are prepared also to create a podcast and bring us into that space and into that world to be able to tell your story, whether that's your story internally to connect the businesses that come in and the individuals that are part of that business, you might not have the luxury of spending time with you or other senior leaders within the business.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: So being able to bring those um individuals to life through stories, through podcasts, and sharing that content both internally, but also flipping on his head and just saying, look, this is what we're doing, this is who we are, and this is our narrative.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really, really important.
25:29
SPEAKER_01: And in this day and age, people love that kind of build-in public type philosophy.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really cool that you're doing that, and you've allowed me into your space to actually bring that story to life because I think there's a lot of people on the outside who just don't know who you are or what you do.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And I think this is going to really shine a light on you as a business.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: I think it's really cool.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: Something you touched on as well, which is really important for me here at the Financial Planel Life Power Cost.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I set it up because I wanted to attract new people to the profession.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: That was one of the biggest things.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Close that advice gap.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm always excited to be working with companies that really do care about the next generation.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: And it was something that you said, you brought up his age, 59, I think it was.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: 57.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: He looks 59.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: But so let's just talk about that because it's a really important subject.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we need to attract new people.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, it's no point just attracting them, they need to be trained.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they need to have client exposure.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: What type of things are you doing as a business?
26:19
SPEAKER_03: So we have a we have an academy.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
26:22
SPEAKER_03: Um, we launched it about 18 months ago.
26:24
SPEAKER_03: It was actually a project that came out of one of the businesses that we we had in Kettering.
26:28
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and our project, two of the founders who sold their business called John and Jilly, who'd retired from the business but still are involved in the academy.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: And and that was focused a lot on not just on uh bringing new people through or existing people within the business, but also career change people.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: So we've done quite a lot around the rugby scene.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: So we've got about 19 people, professional sports people who are retraining as power planners, financial advisors in the business.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, some of them are already going out and and advising, um, and they've come from all walks of life, and including three uh ladies who were uh GB7s players.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: So it's not just male-oriented.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: Um and similarly, um James and I are both very keen on bringing interns into the group who've come from university straight in.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: We've also been out to a couple of schools to give financial planning education to six former, etc.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: So um that whole um uh sort of project to encourage career change, um, new people to join the business, uh, and also to uh introduce the concept to people who haven't even left school yet is something that's important to us.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: It's not one of those things you normally find on the milk round.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: Let's just say that.
27:40
SPEAKER_02: And I've never been to a milk round, but I mean, you don't normally have financial services popping up there.
27:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh and I think most of your listeners will have fallen into financial services or financial planning um by hook or by crook.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: I think also there's a big age gap difference.
27:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, we do actively encourage, I mean, we've got quite a lot of 20 somethings within the group, um, and and hopefully we will have more.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, one, because they're lively, they're proactive, they're willing to learn, etc.
28:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, but you've obviously got the average age group.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: I think you probably told me that the average age of an IFA is actually not 56 now, it's 59.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's going up.
28:19
SPEAKER_02: It's going, it's definitely going up.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: And I think that is probably indicative of the fact that the world is changing.
28:27
SPEAKER_02: But I think financial planning as a job, not investment planning, financial planning, I say, is something that is probably more needed now than it ever has been.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: And if you can start getting people from uh to educate them, and this is an education, I mean, financial planning to a degree is an education process, both internally, um, both emotionally, i.e., from an EQ point of view, um, and getting youngsters to understand what they're dealing with.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I think it's always a classic case in point.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: Ask how many financial planners have a pension plan, it's always a great one.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: And most of them say, oh, well, I didn't start until I was 40 or something like that.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: And they're rushing to do it.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: So I think um I think we actively encourage it across the group.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
29:17
SPEAKER_01: And I've had luxury of two individuals already come on the podcast.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: So Beefy, who came through uh and now heads up the Sports Academy, um, and he's doing a phenomenal job.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: And he was so open on the podcast just about life after sports as well, and just how you know upsetting that actually was for him that his career came to an end and he wasn't quite sure where he was going.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: But lucky enough, he was studying towards becoming a financial planner, so he had his foot in another career, and and that's what he's really passionate about.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: It's just saying to people, look, you know, you're not gonna be doing this forever.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: So you look at something else, and financial planning is a phenomenal career to get into.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And I love that locker room style mentality as well.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: So if he's been in the locker room with the the girls or the boys or whatever, you know, sport in general.
29:57
SPEAKER_02: If he's been in with the girls, just you know, that might be a problem.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: I think I think it's teamwork and it's social.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the critical bit.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is yeah, you get it through all walks of life as we were all growing up.
30:08
SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, I think the one thing about financial planning and being out there and having started my career there is it was very social.
30:15
SPEAKER_02: You got to meet lots of people.
30:17
SPEAKER_02: And Andrew and I meet, you know, I'm gonna say hundreds of people.
30:21
SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I to be honest, that's what keeps you going because it's actually fun and enjoyable, and you want the youngsters to learn how to do it, but you get a lot of it through teamwork.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Um the thing is as well, people need to see people doing the job, right?
30:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm doing this thing at the moment.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: I've got Hannah who who works for me.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: She's she's my operations uh manager and she's wants to be a financial advisor, right?
30:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a financial advice company, but I'm prepared to pay for her qualifications, and I'm prepared to put her on my podcast and actually show her journey from starting her qualifications and training and coaching and all the stuff that goes with it all the way through to becoming an advisor and help support her go down a self-employed route.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: And you never know, I might build my own advice practice, and all the people that come through my podcast go into my advice practice.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, fantastic.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: The thing is though, people will see that, listen to it, and learn about it, all the intricate parts of the journey, not just I'm a financial planner and this is what I do, the whole how do I do it?
31:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's so important.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: We had Ella Safri, who's one of your fantastic advisors.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: She was on an oil rig, you know, very male-dominated in gym, one of 160 on there, and she was a female.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: Now, in respect of her journey from power planner to power planner manager, now to financial advisor in under three years within your business, is it's phenomenal.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: You know, some of the younger chaps in there, you know, managing over a hundred million, you know, high net worth clients doing a fantastic job, working very closely with the investment managers.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: The type of exposure that you're giving younger advisors to be able to walk in A to a job that gives them an employed option as well, because most of the academies out there are self-employed.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: So it's really only geared towards those second careerists who've got cash in the bank.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: And we all know you need a good two years really before you start to make some money.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: So, how is somebody who hasn't got the cash in the bank going to enter a profession where we so desperately need young people?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: So, what you're doing around building your academy around employment and then the ability to actually go through the what you class as the bionic, which is like a telephone-based desk environment, there's opportunities there to then move into other areas of business.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I just think it's phenomenal.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: And the evidence is there already, and we're already bringing them on to talk about those stories.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: So, kudos, really.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: I think it's great.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: And as it grows and gets bigger and better and stronger, I think it's going to be an academy that's going to be really stand out, you know, because there aren't many out there that are doing it.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: So it's really, really good.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, I just want to talk to you about like acquisitions.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, you're obviously on the acquisition trail, you you want to continue to acquire businesses.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, what are some of the challenges that say firms face at this point in time in the market?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: What should they be thinking about exiting in respect of their business?
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Everybody talks about average age 56.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: A lot of these business owners are that age.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: When should they start thinking about exiting?
32:53
SPEAKER_01: When should they start having conversations with you?
32:55
SPEAKER_01: And what are some of the things that might be of challenge to them at this point that they need to overcome to exit successfully?
33:01
SPEAKER_03: So they need to think about it three or four years before they actually want to exit because all acquisitions have earnouts attached to them.
33:07
SPEAKER_03: Um, and also there's a process.
33:09
SPEAKER_03: The process can take sort of six to nine to twelve months from start to finish until you've actually solved the business itself.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, the biggest issue that we you get is is things like regulation.
33:20
SPEAKER_03: So regulation is getting tougher for them to navigate.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: Um they're also conscious that they want to give their um uh people an opportunity to be part of a bigger group because they're still part of a smaller business.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that we I see when I go and meet these acquisitions after we've exchanged, etc., and meet all the team, is they're excited about being part of a bigger group and the opportunities for for those people, be they back office staff, power planners, whatever, to progress if they want to.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: If they don't, they can stay doing what they're doing.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so those I think regulation and just um the the the the you know it's it's tough out there for small businesses, and it will only get tougher, particularly in in a financial service environment.
34:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
34:03
SPEAKER_01: What about things like selling your business?
34:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, does it is it an easy, an easy journey for somebody that goes through the motions of selling their business?
34:10
SPEAKER_01: I sold my recruitment business, and what surprised me with the most was just how depressed I was afterwards, if I'm honest.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: I got really sad.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Like I know 16 years of turning up into doing something I wasn't really that into.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: But I ended up really feeling at a loss.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think it was also because it wasn't on my terms as well, you know.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: It really kind of hit me hard.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Do you go through that?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Do you sort of, dare I say it, hold hands, if you like, of people that are going through the process of selling their business?
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Are you preparing them for perhaps the emotional toil it might have on them?
34:38
SPEAKER_03: It is an emotional journey for them, definitely.
34:40
SPEAKER_03: And it's also a process that they will never have encountered before because the due diligence, etc., can be uh overwhelming at times, as can the legal process if they've never done it before.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then uh you get different type different sellers with different sort of some people want to retire and uh are actually really excited about gonna be able to get out, others uh get r remorse, significant remorse.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: Uh the one thing we do is we we don't say on any transaction you you have to leave or you you have to stay.
35:11
SPEAKER_03: We give everyone the opportunity to do whatever they want, the seller.
35:15
SPEAKER_03: And some will stay for longer and and others won't.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: So 25 businesses though have already signed on the dotted line and joined the group.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: So you must be doing something right, because that's a lot over a four-year period.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: James, you might just agree, you probably want double.
35:30
SPEAKER_03: I was probably gonna say it's me that wants double.
35:32
SPEAKER_02: No, I think it is definitely everyone wants double.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Um I I think this is where the balance comes.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: I think there have been some very early doors, it was a different cattle of fish.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: I think um we we were very quick to it.
35:47
SPEAKER_02: And if I go back to 2022, which was that over the acquisition of Cardale?
35:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 2022.
35:57
SPEAKER_02: One, it was a game changer, uh, because of scale and size.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: Um two, because I think that you you pick strategic purchases.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: And we also then, and Andrew's touched on Kettering, which was Telford Man.
36:13
SPEAKER_02: Um there are strategic changes, and we have pivoted ever so slightly from being DFM oriented to financial planning and advice.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: Um we've obviously had a couple of fund management businesses that we've effectively bought in um early doors as well.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: Um I I I think everything that we buy is is very strategic when we think about it.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: There is obviously sometimes, uh, as we actually had a conversation yesterday, you get buses coming along.
36:42
SPEAKER_02: And the question is whether you jump on that bus or whether you don't.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: Um there are different sizes of business.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the world is your oyster because I think there are that we have an opportunity in what we're doing.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: We've seen the Evelyn purchase, obviously, by NetWest uh two days ago.
37:00
SPEAKER_02: Um I I think that's an indicate indication of what is going on in the market at the higher level, or the bigger level rather than higher level.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Um I think there is there's always something going on.
37:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh everything from refinancings that are going on within larger consolidators to smaller acquisitions, and we've made obviously um two or three recently that are on the smaller side.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: They're not small, but they're on the smaller side relative to uh uh a Ravenskroft or a AHR or one of these businesses.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: Um we will continue in that vein, but it will be very strategic as to what we're trying to do and what fits the bill.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: I think I go back all the way to the beginning.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: What are we trying to be?
37:47
SPEAKER_02: And I think between the two of us, we know what we want to be.
37:50
SPEAKER_02: We want to be a global player in the financial planning where we want to look after clients, whether they be here, Middle East, US, Europe, Far East, Australasia.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: And if we can continue to do that, then the service set that a client gets is hopefully second to none, but is also consistent.
38:10
SPEAKER_02: And I think consistency.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, so we we think that we've got the ability to grow the business um, I'm gonna say exponentially.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there is a, you know, there's obviously a point that it comes where you go, okay, fine, what's too big?
38:23
SPEAKER_02: Um, but at the same time, if we're creating something that everybody wants, uh, and when I say that, clients, and also from an investor point of view, um, we don't want to go X growth.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: And I don't think we're in that space at all.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: I think we've got a lot of growth ahead.
38:38
SPEAKER_02: And we might be, we may not be here in 15 years' time, but I think we'll be here in a few more years to come.
38:45
SPEAKER_02: And that's the exciting bit to it.
38:47
unknown: Okay.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: What does the next five years look like then?
38:49
SPEAKER_01: So if we look at the next five years for Titan wealth, what is it?
38:53
SPEAKER_01: We haven't done five years yet.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Um we haven't.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: We haven't done five years, that's true.
38:57
SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
38:58
SPEAKER_03: Let's do the next three years.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: I think um so I think the next three years that we'll make further acquisitions, but we'll also uh make uh provide and make sure all of the services within the group are utilized by those businesses.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: We'll expand on those services, um, we'll expand on the geographical reach that we've got, um, and we'll continue to um put the client and the advisor at the heart of the journey.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: Um, how big we get is really dependent upon the opportunity.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you we've turned down more acquisitions than we've done in the last four years.
39:32
SPEAKER_03: And despite what uh you may read in the press, um, we have never paid, we've paid very low multiples for most of the businesses we bought deliberately.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and we've taken advantage of the synergies as well within those businesses.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, I think we you we could easily double in size over the next three years, but who knows?
39:51
SPEAKER_01: What does the pipeline actually look like?
39:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got 44 billion under management right now, 1,400 staff.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: What you know, what what can we expect in the next year?
40:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, is it going to grow exponentially in the next year, do you think?
40:04
SPEAKER_03: Well, internationally we've got a very strong pipeline.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: Uh, in the UK, um, we are rebuilding the pipeline at the moment.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: Um, I've got to say there's a lot of people paying silly multiples at the moment.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: I think it's because there's a number of consolidators looking to come to market in the next 12 months that they're trying to flesh themselves out in advance of going.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: Um, but we will not be dragged into uh a bidding war on business.
40:27
SPEAKER_03: We don't need to anymore.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Um, and so we'll just we'll just play it as it c as it comes.
40:31
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: There's a term that's been coined, I think, by you guys.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: One Titan.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna ask you the question, James.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: What does one Titan mean to you?
40:40
SPEAKER_02: One Titan means I think that everyone is pulling in the same direction for the same purpose, um, and all together.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: And I think listen, I've never worked for a big corporate, and we're not a big corporate, we're a very entrepreneurial business.
40:57
SPEAKER_02: I think having you have to have divergence of some thought, but by and large, if you have 75 to 80% of the thought process all channeled in the right direction, you can only win.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: And I think that is what one Titan is.
41:13
SPEAKER_02: There is it's quite funny.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: We've bought these 25 businesses, and um uh as we go through integration, obviously everyone tries to integrate the businesses.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, we do integrate the businesses, but in in terms of the thought process, and you sometimes think that um let's you and I obviously were out in Dubai quite recently, and they've been huge advocates for this.
41:38
SPEAKER_02: Is it's not Titan Wealth International or Titan Wealth Planning or something like that, it's just Titan and it's one Titan.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: And the reason it's one Titan is because uh, as we've had, I've had a client today, he's after, ironically, he's after five tons, metric tons of gold.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: So they're not in the UK, I might add.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay, it happens to be a Middle Eastern client.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, the one thing that we do have is that we have a precious metals team, and we have faults in Guernsey.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: So not everybody knows that.
42:12
SPEAKER_02: Likewise, we've also had I've had a client I was talking about, my father's a client, and um and the fact that he wants a certain uh service.
42:21
SPEAKER_02: So I've spoken to the um advisor who's looking after him, and I've said, Are you aware that this is coming?
42:28
SPEAKER_02: He said, Ah, okay, I wasn't aware that we did this.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And I've said, Well, there you are.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Go and speak to Fred over there and realize that what we need to do under one Titan is be aware of all the services.
42:42
SPEAKER_02: So whether it be trading in gold, whether it be direct equities, whether it be inheritance tax advice, whether it be the fact that we have a VCT or access to a VCT, whether it be um workplace uh pensions and things like that.
42:58
SPEAKER_02: I think everyone needs to understand that we are just one group and we're not one individual internally, internally within.
43:05
SPEAKER_02: And that's historically where I would say advisors and what's morphed over the um over the last few years of financial planning is the realization that we have um, I won't say cradle to grave because I don't like that, but end-to-end capabilities for financial planning and asset uh management of some description.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Internal communication plays another part in that and the way people want to learn about the business that they're in, especially one that is growing at such a rate.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: So I yeah, I love that.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Great, connecting the business in that way.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Same question to you then, Andrew.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, community, I think, which is what one Titan means to me.
43:42
SPEAKER_03: It's one big community.
43:44
SPEAKER_03: And um we have to uh bring people together as often as we can to create that community.
43:50
SPEAKER_03: Um and they have to be aligned in the vision, aligned in the culture.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for your time today.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: Really, really appreciate your insight into the business.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: And I think give yourself a map.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Massive pat on the back doesn't sound doesn't sound patronizing.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: But I can imagine when you are working at the level that you're working at, people don't often see the amount of hours and time and energy and stress that goes into building and running a business of this size.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: It's phenomenal.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: And what I've seen so far is admirable.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for letting me in and being part of your Titan Wealth One Titan journey.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure.
44:25
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Al.
44:26
SPEAKER_02: Many thanks.