Latest / Foul Territory / Trade Deadline history w/Trevor May, Ken Rosenthal on muddled AL

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Trade Deadline history w/Trevor May, Ken Rosenthal on muddled AL · Foul Territory

0:00
Speaker 1: It's muddled the picture, and it's forced teams to hold
0:03
Speaker 1: on longer because they don't want to give up on
0:06
Speaker 1: a season necessarily and signal to their fans that, you
0:09
Speaker 1: know what, even though we're four games out of a
0:11
Speaker 1: wild card, we don't feel we can do it.
0:18
Speaker 2: Welcome back to foul Territory. I am Trevor May, host
0:21
Speaker 2: of May Day, a live show that I do every
0:25
Speaker 2: Monday at four pm Eastern Time right here on the channel.
0:28
Speaker 2: And during that show, I do a segment called May Explaining,
0:31
Speaker 2: where I get to go deep and dive into a
0:34
Speaker 2: subject that maybe has never been explained in the way
0:37
Speaker 2: that I do it. So without further ado, let's just
0:40
Speaker 2: hop right into it. This is May Explaining Rapsodo and Hawkeye.
0:44
Speaker 2: I'll tell you this information. Paul Skins has added two
0:47
Speaker 2: pitches to his arsenal going into twenty twenty five.
0:50
Speaker 1: No do it, don't buckle up.
0:54
Speaker 2: It's time for some May splaining. It is All Star
1:01
Speaker 2: Week down in Atlanta. All the best players in the
1:04
Speaker 2: major leagues met down there, gott into some shananigans, went
1:08
Speaker 2: head to head. We saw some great matchups and we
1:10
Speaker 2: also saw that the draft happened this week as well.
1:16
Speaker 2: Quite the busy week if you are indeed an MLB
1:19
Speaker 2: executive or part of the executive team at all. A
1:22
Speaker 2: lot of pressure, a lot of things going on, and
1:24
Speaker 2: a lot of it is happening on the same day.
1:27
Speaker 2: Can't be fun, must be exhausting, and most probably can't
1:32
Speaker 2: wait for this week to be over so they can
1:33
Speaker 2: take a little bit of rest. But unfortunately for them,
1:37
Speaker 2: the real pressure is put on starting Monday, and that
1:42
Speaker 2: is the trade deadline. The trade deadline this year is
1:48
Speaker 2: July thirtieth, sorry, July thirty first, at six pm Eastern Time.
1:53
Speaker 2: It is the point at which no team can trade
1:56
Speaker 2: any players or receive any players to take them into
2:02
Speaker 2: the playoff race. And a lot of things in the
2:05
Speaker 2: system have changed over the years. But I was thinking,
2:12
Speaker 2: how how did we get to where we are and
2:14
Speaker 2: where did this whole thing start? Today we are going
2:17
Speaker 2: to break down the history of the trade deadline so
2:20
Speaker 2: that we can appreciate this time in our lives just
2:24
Speaker 2: a little bit more in twenty twenty five, and I'm
2:29
Speaker 2: really excited. I'm really excited. I love doing research because
2:31
Speaker 2: I am a big nerd, So let's talk about it.
2:37
Speaker 2: The year is nineteen twenty three. Okay, can you picture
2:40
Speaker 2: it good? There was no trade deadline before nineteen twenty three.
2:45
Speaker 2: Before then, it was just anyone could go anywhere, willie
2:48
Speaker 2: nilly at any point in the season, and no one
2:51
Speaker 2: was really worried about one team having an advantage over another.
2:55
Speaker 2: I believe it. This time there was only eight teams,
2:58
Speaker 2: so the league is in its infancy. There was no
3:00
Speaker 2: need for trade deadline until nineteen twenty three, when a
3:05
Speaker 2: June fifteenth trade deadline was put in place, and it
3:09
Speaker 2: was intended to prevent late season, late season buying of championships,
3:14
Speaker 2: which is what trade ladlines have had in spirit the
3:17
Speaker 2: entire time they've existed, and to encourage roster consistency for
3:22
Speaker 2: the stretch run. We don't want to have a different
3:25
Speaker 2: team winning that stretch those games with the stretch than
3:29
Speaker 2: they did to get them there.
3:30
Speaker 1: Right.
3:30
Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense to me, and this
3:32
Speaker 2: is setting the stage for a lot of the parody
3:34
Speaker 2: we look for in our game. The man in question,
3:38
Speaker 2: the pioneer of this new change to the rules, was
3:44
Speaker 2: none other than Kennesaw Landing. Sorry, Kennesaw Mountain Landis. That's
3:52
Speaker 2: quite a mouthful. There's a lot of nicknames back there,
3:54
Speaker 2: and I got really excited to say it. So sometimes
3:56
Speaker 2: that happens. This gentleman who may or may not ever smile,
4:03
Speaker 2: he was one of the most intense people I've ever
4:06
Speaker 2: seen and try to fight pictures. Honestly, it was very hard,
4:09
Speaker 2: like we have this one and then we got this guy,
4:14
Speaker 2: but then we got a little bit of a smirk
4:17
Speaker 2: on this one from Kanasau Mountain, but then he hit
4:20
Speaker 2: us with this guy. So let's just put it this way.
4:24
Speaker 2: Intimidation one of the major tools in Kanasaan Mountains toolbox.
4:29
Speaker 2: As commissioner, because he was commissioner at the time, he
4:33
Speaker 2: actually oversaw the first official trade in nineteen twenty nine.
4:36
Speaker 2: His tenure was actually focused and this is going to
4:39
Speaker 2: feel like a political campaign, but on restoring the integrity
4:43
Speaker 2: of posts Black Sox scandal who we know earlier this year,
4:47
Speaker 2: the Black Sox scandal with the Shulis show. Jackson is
4:50
Speaker 2: depicted in the Field of Dreams with you know, you
4:54
Speaker 2: know all about the story and they were all reinstated
4:57
Speaker 2: back into baseball this year and it was a big
5:01
Speaker 2: smear on the game and a lot of people were
5:02
Speaker 2: turned off to the game after that. Happened because you
5:05
Speaker 2: couldn't know if anything was really happening the way it was,
5:08
Speaker 2: and Kenesaw sent out to clean that up and file counts.
5:11
Speaker 2: It did the job for sixty years. The trade deadline
5:15
Speaker 2: was set on June fifteenth and did not change until
5:21
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. A lot of people at home might
5:26
Speaker 2: remember this picture as the Mets did bring home the
5:30
Speaker 2: World Series that year. The major shift was moving the
5:34
Speaker 2: trade deadline up to July thirty first, to get more
5:37
Speaker 2: times and more teams time to evaluate. So the season
5:40
Speaker 2: had also expanded a bunch of games since the last
5:44
Speaker 2: time as well, so giving them a little bit more
5:48
Speaker 2: time to think about what they want to do, a
5:49
Speaker 2: little bit less time to have those players just made
5:52
Speaker 2: a bunch of sense. But a lot of the main
5:54
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6:58
Speaker 2: The pioneer of this was Peter Eberroth. Well, now that
7:02
Speaker 2: is what I am used to either presidents or commissioners
7:06
Speaker 2: looking like. At least we got a little smile here
7:09
Speaker 2: out of Peter. The way he changed it in nineteen
7:14
Speaker 2: eighty six was he introduced the waiver system, the August
7:20
Speaker 2: Waiver system. How that works. And if you'll remember from
7:23
Speaker 2: our story on DFAs and what they how they work,
7:27
Speaker 2: one of the option was putting a player on waivers.
7:32
Speaker 2: What that effectively does because waiver claims in baseball, fantasy
7:37
Speaker 2: baseball waiver claims, and fantasy sports waiver claims are based
7:40
Speaker 2: on that system. So it's a list of players that
7:43
Speaker 2: are available, and then there is a picking order that
7:47
Speaker 2: teams have to go through in order to get their guys.
7:49
Speaker 2: So if you get the first pick in the waivers,
7:51
Speaker 2: you can go grab them and pay them, you know,
7:54
Speaker 2: whatever their minimum salary is, and the other team is
7:58
Speaker 2: on the hook for the rest of them salary. That's
8:01
Speaker 2: how it works, or used to work until recently. So
8:04
Speaker 2: what they would do is someone would put a guy
8:07
Speaker 2: on the waiver claim maybe the guy the team tenth
8:09
Speaker 2: guy team on the list was the teams that early
8:12
Speaker 2: in the list don't make a lot of waiverclaims usually,
8:15
Speaker 2: so they hoard them like they do in fantasy and
8:18
Speaker 2: so teams could trade then trade for that player, and
8:22
Speaker 2: then so the first team takes them off waiver claims
8:24
Speaker 2: and then they work out of trade, and so you
8:26
Speaker 2: had to do trades in that way. Involving a waiver
8:29
Speaker 2: in order to get them up to an August thirty
8:32
Speaker 2: first deadline. So that was a big change in nineteen
8:38
Speaker 2: eighty six and August thirty first every year became the
8:44
Speaker 2: de facto deadline for a player needing to play for
8:47
Speaker 2: the team. If they joined the team after that, they
8:49
Speaker 2: cannot play in the playoffs, which stands to this day.
8:53
Speaker 2: Notable trades are in this era, with the Anchores in
8:55
Speaker 2: two thousand acquiring David Justice and later Glenn Allen Hill
8:58
Speaker 2: in August. In twenty twelve, the Dodgers got Adrian Gonzalez,
9:02
Speaker 2: Carl Crawford, and Josh Beckett in Audust Blockbuster all waiver claims.
9:06
Speaker 2: So you can't really do this anymore, and we will
9:10
Speaker 2: talk about that in a moment, but Bud Selig was
9:13
Speaker 2: one of the main guys working through these waiver claims.
9:17
Speaker 2: All three of these guys were waiverclaim traded at some
9:20
Speaker 2: point and Bud Selig, who cannot who's pictured here not
9:23
Speaker 2: being able to hear anything, surprise, was the mastermind behind
9:28
Speaker 2: that one. The waiver claims then ended in twenty nineteen
9:31
Speaker 2: under a guy you're going to know. We ended this
9:36
Speaker 2: system in order to get rid of a system that's
9:40
Speaker 2: starting to be manipulated so teams could collude and big
9:44
Speaker 2: players were moving and then money wasn't the issue. It
9:47
Speaker 2: was the issue before it became not an issue anymore,
9:50
Speaker 2: and they wanted to get rid of it because teams
9:51
Speaker 2: were manipulating it and they wanted to increase transparency and
9:55
Speaker 2: competitive fairness. Okay, so this is twenty nineteen. This was
10:03
Speaker 2: my favorite cartoon from the era. So I just want
10:05
Speaker 2: you to take that in for a second. But Rob
10:07
Speaker 2: Manfred was the guy who brought about the twenty nineteen
10:11
Speaker 2: rule change that then got rid of the waiver claim.
10:14
Speaker 2: So now today we sit on a end of July
10:20
Speaker 2: maybe first couple days of August hard deadline VERA for trades,
10:25
Speaker 2: which is what we are working with right now. But
10:30
Speaker 2: one new little thing that was put in and worked
10:32
Speaker 2: through with the PA and this gentleman and this gentleman
10:35
Speaker 2: they had a PA Tony Clark, got together and they
10:38
Speaker 2: started to in the same spirit of the adding the
10:42
Speaker 2: waiver claim added a little flexibility to what that date
10:45
Speaker 2: could be based on how the season plays out this year.
10:48
Speaker 2: It just happens to be July thirty first, at six
10:50
Speaker 2: pm Eastern time, and that is the deadline to have
10:55
Speaker 2: something in play. I believe there's a little bit wiggle
10:58
Speaker 2: room on the time of the day. If they get
11:01
Speaker 2: past a certain point, they're allowed to continue that negotiation
11:06
Speaker 2: for they can get an extension if they need to.
11:09
Speaker 2: So that brings us today, and that is what us
11:12
Speaker 2: as media members and all the fans are looking forward
11:14
Speaker 2: to see what their team can get to make their
11:18
Speaker 2: team better. The next iteration of this is going to
11:20
Speaker 2: be a free agency deadline. We're gonna hear a lot
11:22
Speaker 2: about that in the CBA, but that's for another day.
11:25
Speaker 2: So now teams are prioritized to buy or sell players
11:29
Speaker 2: a little bit earlier. So this next coming week we
11:32
Speaker 2: might see some movement because that deadline is so set
11:35
Speaker 2: in stone and you have to make a decision, and
11:37
Speaker 2: teams would rather not get into a fourteen betting war
11:41
Speaker 2: with prospects later. They would like to get the job done.
11:43
Speaker 2: So that's why we're seeing trades happen a little bit
11:45
Speaker 2: earlier in July, and that's why we could see some
11:48
Speaker 2: coming into this next week. So now we all know
11:52
Speaker 2: where the trade deadline came from. Hopefully that gives you
11:55
Speaker 2: a little bit more insight, and let's you enjoy this
11:58
Speaker 2: time of the year a little bit more. Don't forget
12:02
Speaker 2: to check out Mayday Mondays four pm Eastern time, right
12:05
Speaker 2: here on the Foul Territory channel, and we will see then.
12:08
Speaker 3: There is an FT shop. There are significant updates, significant updates.
12:13
Speaker 3: So we want to just keep letting the people know
12:15
Speaker 3: baseball the way it should be covered is on a
12:17
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12:23
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12:30
Speaker 4: Welcome back everybody to foul Territory alongside the great Ken Rosenthal.
12:34
Speaker 4: I am Alana Rizzo Ken. Everyone's talking about it. What
12:37
Speaker 4: should we be watching for as the trade deadline looms?
12:41
Speaker 1: Separation, Alana, And what I mean by that is teams
12:45
Speaker 1: that will maybe fall out of contention, teams that will
12:48
Speaker 1: start to see themselves more as contenders, teams that are
12:52
Speaker 1: on the bubble. Those teams need to decide which way
12:55
Speaker 1: they're going. Now we know full well that the buy
12:59
Speaker 1: sell equation is not necessarily binary. Some teams will do both,
13:02
Speaker 1: and it is simplistic to divide teams into that category
13:07
Speaker 1: or those categories. But we do know also that there
13:10
Speaker 1: are teams that just are not quite sure where they are,
13:13
Speaker 1: Teams that are maybe three and a half four back
13:16
Speaker 1: in the wildcard race, Teams that might be in that
13:18
Speaker 1: kind of position three and a half four back, but
13:21
Speaker 1: think we don't really have a chance to win the
13:24
Speaker 1: World Series. So that's what we're looking for over the
13:26
Speaker 1: next couple of weeks, teams to define themselves, figure out
13:30
Speaker 1: exactly who they are.
13:32
Speaker 4: Kennedy, al wildcard picture seems to be very muddled. What
13:36
Speaker 4: do you think happens with that? How do you believe
13:38
Speaker 4: that plays out?
13:40
Speaker 1: I'm not exactly sure, Alana, and a lot will depend
13:42
Speaker 1: on the deadline on which teams make moves. Now. The
13:45
Speaker 1: Central has a number of teams, the Royals, the Guardians,
13:48
Speaker 1: the Twins, those three in particular that can go either way,
13:53
Speaker 1: that seemingly have a chance of a wildcard, but you're
13:57
Speaker 1: really not sure kind of where they stand. In the East,
14:00
Speaker 1: I fully expect Boston to try to go for it.
14:03
Speaker 1: Toronto and the Yankees of course are in that position already.
14:07
Speaker 1: And in the West, the Mariners are a team that
14:10
Speaker 1: still want to do some things, still want to win.
14:12
Speaker 1: So it's a muddled picture. It's kind of what we're
14:15
Speaker 1: getting at here. And I don't know that I expected
14:18
Speaker 1: to change. I have not mentioned the Texas Rangers there,
14:21
Speaker 1: but they could be two hot weeks away from being
14:23
Speaker 1: a team that is a buyer as well.
14:26
Speaker 4: So much can change over the course of the next
14:28
Speaker 4: two weeks. Can the Orioles though? Are they a classic should?
14:31
Speaker 4: What does that mean?
14:33
Speaker 1: There are a classic? Should sell? Should sell? That's what
14:37
Speaker 1: the should means there, Alana. And yes, they already have
14:40
Speaker 1: made the one move before the deadline, the Brian Baker
14:43
Speaker 1: trade to the Tampa Bay Rays, a good one because
14:45
Speaker 1: it netted them the thirty seventh pick in the draft.
14:48
Speaker 1: And you see the list of trade candidates. These are
14:51
Speaker 1: just players on expiring contracts, expept for Baker, who has
14:55
Speaker 1: three years of club control remaining. Ryan Ohearnt is an
14:57
Speaker 1: All Star Loreano Remo Loreano has had a really good
15:00
Speaker 1: run for them. Cedric Mowens center fielder, and then some
15:03
Speaker 1: right handed pitching starters Charlie Morton and Tomooki Sagano, as
15:07
Speaker 1: well as Andrew Kittrids and Sir Anthony Dominguez and then
15:10
Speaker 1: on the injured list. Of those, Eflyn is the one
15:12
Speaker 1: who likely is coming back. So yes, they're going to
15:16
Speaker 1: do some things. They with the trade of Baker identified
15:19
Speaker 1: themselves as sellers. We've all been waiting for that. We
15:22
Speaker 1: know they're a disappointment. They want controllable starting pitching. Not
15:26
Speaker 1: sure they can get it before the deadline. Teams that
15:29
Speaker 1: have it don't want to trade it. But the Oriols
15:31
Speaker 1: I expect will be active. Yes, somewhat like the Tampa
15:34
Speaker 1: Bay Rays were last year when they had that massive
15:37
Speaker 1: selloff traded nine players.
15:39
Speaker 4: Not to say that it's easy to get into the postseason, Kenny,
15:42
Speaker 4: but it seems like it's an easier pathway in the
15:44
Speaker 4: American League. The National League seems a much more tough
15:47
Speaker 4: race in terms of getting to that postseason. With the
15:51
Speaker 4: amount of teams. Let's talk about NL home field advantage.
15:54
Speaker 4: Who separates themselves, Well.
15:56
Speaker 1: You're talking about the elite teams, Alana, right, and that
15:59
Speaker 1: would be the Phillies, the Mets, the Dodgers, the Cubs,
16:02
Speaker 1: and maybe even the Brewers in that mix. The Dodgers
16:05
Speaker 1: are a team that designed their roster with the intent
16:08
Speaker 1: of not overpaying at the deadline, and I don't expect
16:11
Speaker 1: them to be terribly active. What they have generally looked
16:14
Speaker 1: to do under Andrew Friedman, and this is Friedman's philosophy
16:17
Speaker 1: going back to his days with Tampa Bay, is look
16:20
Speaker 1: for impact moves. So if they can get an impact
16:24
Speaker 1: reliever or an impact bad that would be maybe better
16:27
Speaker 1: than what Michael Confordo has given them. Yeah, I can
16:30
Speaker 1: see them doing that, but I don't know that they're
16:31
Speaker 1: going to do big things. The Phillies, on the other hand,
16:35
Speaker 1: have significant needs, need for an outfielder and more importantly,
16:39
Speaker 1: need for bullpen help. Yes, Josel Verado is coming back,
16:43
Speaker 1: but he'll only be available for the regular season, and yes,
16:46
Speaker 1: they can move a starter to the bullpen for the
16:47
Speaker 1: postseason the way they have in the past. But I
16:51
Speaker 1: don't see them necessarily just sitting and standing there saying
16:55
Speaker 1: that's good enough. They can't do that. They know they
16:57
Speaker 1: need bullpen help and they're going to go out and
16:59
Speaker 1: get it.
17:00
Speaker 4: All, right, Ken, So that's what the five contenders in
17:02
Speaker 4: the National League are looking to add. What about the
17:05
Speaker 4: American League? You know the Yankees are going to be
17:07
Speaker 4: in the mix. Toronto's looking good. Obviously, Detroit has kind
17:10
Speaker 4: of led wire to wire so far this season. What
17:12
Speaker 4: are each of those teams missing? What do they need
17:15
Speaker 4: to compliment what's already a good roster?
17:17
Speaker 1: First off, Alana, I expect each of those teams to
17:20
Speaker 1: be aggressive. The Yankees' needs are clear. Third base big need,
17:24
Speaker 1: starting pitcher big need. Two bullpen arms that would be
17:28
Speaker 1: a need as well. The Blue Jays I expect to
17:30
Speaker 1: be aggressive as well. They don't need much help on
17:33
Speaker 1: the offensive side, obviously, if they can find impact, they
17:35
Speaker 1: would do that, But on the pitching side, they have
17:39
Speaker 1: some short and long term concerns. Max Scherzer and Chris
17:42
Speaker 1: Bassett are free agents at the end of the year,
17:44
Speaker 1: so a controllable starter for them would be outstanding. Gosspin
17:48
Speaker 1: and Burrios only have one more year after this one,
17:51
Speaker 1: and then in the bullpen, I expect Jeff Hoffman to
17:54
Speaker 1: be better in the second half. But at the same time,
17:56
Speaker 1: a high leverage reliever would be certainly something that the
17:59
Speaker 1: Jays would want to add, as well as every other
18:01
Speaker 1: team in the mix. Could they go get a left
18:03
Speaker 1: fielder or someone in the outfield as well, Yes, they could,
18:06
Speaker 1: but I expect them to be pitching heavy, and then
18:09
Speaker 1: finally the Tigers, another team that will be pitching heavy.
18:13
Speaker 1: They seem to have settled on their right handed hitting needs.
18:16
Speaker 1: They're okay there, but another starter for sure, and swing
18:20
Speaker 1: and misrelief pitching is something that they've been looking for
18:22
Speaker 1: for quite some time. They've got a good pen, but
18:25
Speaker 1: they'd love to get a guy in there who can
18:27
Speaker 1: just strike out people and do it that way.
18:30
Speaker 4: And I love the fact that so many extra teams
18:32
Speaker 4: get into the postseason because it's good for the fan
18:35
Speaker 4: base and it keeps people interested a lot longer, but
18:37
Speaker 4: it also muddles the situation in terms of who's going
18:41
Speaker 4: to buy and who's going to sell. In your time
18:43
Speaker 4: covering this game, how do you think the wild card
18:45
Speaker 4: picture and the expansion of the wild card teams has
18:48
Speaker 4: changed the deadline?
18:50
Speaker 1: Exactly what you just said, Alta. It's muddled the picture
18:53
Speaker 1: and it's forced teams to hold on longer because they
18:56
Speaker 1: don't want to give up on a season necessarily and
18:59
Speaker 1: signal to the fans that you know what, even though
19:01
Speaker 1: we're four games out of a wild card, we don't
19:04
Speaker 1: feel we can do it. And teams that have done
19:06
Speaker 1: that in recent years have gotten heavily criticized, and it's
19:10
Speaker 1: just not a healthy way to go about it. Teams
19:13
Speaker 1: should be competing. That's the whole point of the sport.
19:15
Speaker 1: Compete and get to the playoffs. So while it's muddled
19:19
Speaker 1: a picture, it's also made it more interesting in certain
19:22
Speaker 1: respects because at times we will see what they call
19:25
Speaker 1: baseball trades and what gms and baseball people mean by that.
19:29
Speaker 1: What they mean by the term baseball trades is major
19:32
Speaker 1: league need for major league need, and rather than a
19:35
Speaker 1: prospect trade in which you're trading a veteran for prospects,
19:38
Speaker 1: you're addressing something on the major league roster both ways.
19:42
Speaker 1: So it's going to be an interesting deadline. A lot
19:44
Speaker 1: of people expect it to be a dud. I don't
19:47
Speaker 1: know that it will be. Yes, Ralphaeld Devers probably was
19:50
Speaker 1: the best player who will be traded. But there is
19:52
Speaker 1: always action a lota and I am quite sure there's
19:55
Speaker 1: going to be action this time. Yeah.
19:58
Speaker 4: It's always fun to watch, and I know it's a
19:59
Speaker 4: busy time the year for you, but from a fan perspective,
20:01
Speaker 4: it's great. It's like, who's going where, What's going to happen?
20:04
Speaker 4: Can we appreciate your insight as always, and everybody don't
20:06
Speaker 4: forget You can catch a brand new fair Territory with
20:09
Speaker 4: Ken Rosenzaal every Monday at ten am Eastern and also
20:14
Speaker 4: on Thursdays at twelve thirty pm Eastern, all season long.
20:17
Speaker 4: Subscribe to the entire Foul Territory Network.