Latest / Humanity Working / Workforce Readiness for the Future of Work

Transcript

Workforce Readiness for the Future of Work · Humanity Working

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well I think you know readiness is at the core.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean fairly obviously.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and I do mean readiness.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um not just let's say training content if you like, but I I mean readiness as in honed and sustained abilities, habits, routines, uh behaviors, and skills, right?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I really mean by by readiness.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not just being learned, but being ready.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: In today's episode, Paul is joined by his co-founder at Billion Minds, Ryan Tubbs, for a more in-depth sit-down.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Over the past few months, Ryan's been focused on more deeply understanding the role employers need to face in the development of their own employees.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Today, Paul and Ryan talk about the results of this research and discuss how we can learn from fields like engineering when growing the soft skills of employees in organizations.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan also shares how the needs of employees tend to vary throughout their working lives, and how organizations need to consider that when helping their employees grow.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this episode or any of our episodes, please make sure you're subscribing, and please rate us on your favorite podcasting app as it helps us keep going and bringing more episodes.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is brought to you by Billion Minds, the company that prepares organizations for the future of work by developing adaptable, resilient employees.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can learn more about them on LinkedIn or by viewing us on billionminds.com.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get going.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm delighted to be joined by my co-founder of Billion Minds, Ryan Tubbs.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we wanted to have you on for a uh for a good time, Ryan, because uh I know you've been focusing pretty intently on one thing that will be a lot of interest to the to the podcast audience here, which is really kind of the employer experience um when it comes to building adaptable, resilient workforces.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome to the pod today.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get started actually with what you are working on right now.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Just kind of teased it there, but give me some more details.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so at the mission level, uh, we're really trying to help the world transition to the future of work.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, our role in that specifically is to help organizations build adaptable and resilient workforces.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we've discovered a couple things.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing is that that's kind of the only thing that we can really count on.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: When I say we, I mean like humans or the workforce at large.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're gonna expect or we should expect a tremendous amount of change and disruption over the next 10 years, maybe even beyond, of course, beyond.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the only thing that we can really do to stay future-proof, really, is to build the skills of being adaptable and resilient.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's at the employee level, that's at the employer level.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and there's both of those things that I hope that we have a chance to unpack.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, at the employee level, it really does come down to a new set of skills, a new set of capabilities and a commitment to continuous, if not constant, reskilling and upskilling as the demands of work change.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then from the employers, it's it's really about enabling the employees to do exactly that and providing uh the various elements, the various ingredients that gives them the freedom and empowerment to do that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really interesting.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've gone in in previous podcasts, we've talked obviously about the the sort of why, why specifically adaptability and resilience.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't need to go into a lot of detail on that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think our audience, a lot of them will really understand that um in good detail.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you're new to the podcast and you want to get a deeper understanding of that, go back and listen to the opening episode of this series and we talk in in some detail there as to why specifically um adaptability and resilience.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: But just so that to kind of refresh everybody, can you uh just give us a very brief definition of what we mean by adaptability and what we mean by resilience?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So adaptability, the ability to adjust to change, and resilience, the ability to thrive both intellectually and emotionally amidst that change.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's I I think it's fascinating because for many organizations, they may or may not focus on one of those things.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: But as you pointed out at the start here, those are those are traits that every organization, every workforce should be uh should be focusing on.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I one of the things that certainly I've seen and I know as you've been doing some specialized work in this space for us here at Billy Mines.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think a lot of employers are thinking that this starts and stops with giving the employees just the chance to own these skills, maybe with, I don't know, like buying everybody a Budemy subscription or something along those lines.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um is that it?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or is there more to it than that from the perspective of an employer?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's more to it than that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's it's it's almost a realization of of how times have changed uh a bit.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, throwing a bunch of content at employees, that kind of started, I don't know, what do you think, in the 2010s, uh 2015s sort of environment.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And in a lot of ways.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like the Netflix version of the code.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so there's 30,000 courses, you know, choose your own adventure.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um was almost a benefit.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like um, hey, we appreciate learning and development here.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so here's access to a ton of ways that you can learn and develop yourself professionally and even personally.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that that was solving kind of a different problem.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was almost solving for ancillary skills, if you like, or or things that um increase your overall kind of satisfaction because you feel like you're learning, you feel like you're growing, whether that's applicable to your core job function or not.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the thing that's interesting is that the the kind of skills that are going to be in the new skills currency are the ones that were sort of traditionally referred to as soft skills.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and as we start to see um, you know, hard skills being democratized and the half-life of those skills shrinking every day with uh with technology and AI, um, then there's an increasing importance on soft skills.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I shouldn't say that, that these skills have become essential.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Not they're not a nice to have, and it's not kind of like a some need to have them if they're in certain positions and others don't.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a must-have.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's a non-negotiable now to have this set of skills because of the way that we live and work, because of the pace uh and rate of change um that exists now.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I think a good way to bring the point home, Paul, would be to kind of think about it in a non-knowledge work industry, if you like.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's think about like like building airplanes.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just picking a random example here, but um, but if you think about what it takes to build an airplane, you need a bunch of engineers that have a certain set of skills.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe we'll just focus on like building turbines, you know.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um you need a set of skills for that.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just think about this.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Building an uh effective turbine is critical to an airplane, yes?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh having resources that are are skilled to do that is essential for that business as a result.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, would you ever just hire a bunch of engineers um and say, here's here's Udemy.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Here's Coursera.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not even engineers, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Not even engineers, just a bunch of people.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you had great interviews, you know.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: We brought them in just like, hey, thank you.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're glad that you joined us to help us build airplanes.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Here, go, here's your login to Udemy.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, go have a blast.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, think just think about how absurd that is.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we need uh the specialists to be specialists.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we need them to be certified.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's it's really interesting that what has basically happened is that the skills that were previously uh unmeasurable or just weren't measured at all, whether they're unmeasurable or not, um weren't measured, um, weren't very easy to develop, um, but have now become basically the equivalent of a turbine engineer, essential to the functioning of the business.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know that that's that's what's changed.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: What's changed is the importance of these skills that were kind of used to be nice to have.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, that you know, that really is interesting because what I what I think you're getting at here is that um the way in which we've treated these things that are considered to be soft skills, they've almost been treated as second-class citizens to, you know, job-specific skills.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: And part of the reason for that is not because they're less important, it's just that they're more difficult to measure, they're more difficult to get your head around, they're more intangible, if you like.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so because they're more intangible, that leads us to to a certain extent care about them less, whereby that doesn't mean that they're less important.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: It just means they're less tangible.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if we can if we can fix that in some way, if we can make those um skills more tangible, more measurable, then it's very likely that organizations are going to be able to manage to that and focus on it more effectively.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Really interesting.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so so you've kind of like touched on the the sort of the reasons why, as it were, that these things, uh, that these things are important and why it's kind of like ludicrous that we don't don't think about them more.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I know when you when you that's what I'm saying, when you put it into almost like a a a metaphor like I did with airplanes at random, then it really pops out the absurdity of it.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: But so let's focus on the specific things that employers do need in order to be able to kind of create an environment in which these skills are core.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I think you know, readiness is at the core.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, fairly obviously.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and I do mean readiness, um, not just let's say training content, if you like, but I mean readiness as in honed and sustained abilities, habits, routines, uh, behaviors, and skills, right?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I really mean by by readiness.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Not not just being learned, but being ready.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that's it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Let me start let me stop you there, because I think that's really, really interesting.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that in itself is, if you like, a critique of the of like, let's just give her uh give everybody you to me, right?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because ostensibly you're outsourcing the responsibility for being ready to the employees, and almost like you've almost like it's not important, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas in reality, if if if these capabilities of being adaptable and resilient are crucial for your success as a company, then you need to be thinking about how ready people are to to basically use those abilities inside the organization, just as you need your engineer to be ready to be able to engineer your aircraft.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and think about it's another good, it's another good point too, Paul.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is that if you think about readiness using that same uh example, uh it in addition to you're not just gonna send them to Udemy and take a bunch of random courses, um, you're also going to want to provide them or need to provide them a safe practice environment.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're you're your engineer just you know, just developing a new set of skills.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't put them on the aircraft day one.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: You they they need to practice, they need to, they need to kind of develop this set of skills, they need to be an apprentice almost for a period of time so that they're properly honed so that they're meeting the needs, the very stringent needs in a particular case of safety and regulation, et cetera.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the readiness piece.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: What else is that?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and then all the things that are are surrounding that, that that enable um readiness to happen at scale through the workforce.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So uh culture, uh clearly communicating and reinforcing that the company takes this very seriously, that that adaptability and resilience is uh part of the DNA of the organization in recognition with uh of how times have changed and how the company is uh certainly concerned about being future-proof, uh, if you like.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and really also being um very empathetic to the daily chaos that is the modern work environment for the employee.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so understanding that these sets of skills, being adaptable and resilient, isn't just a need in the workplace, but in life in general, uh, so outside the workplace too.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so building an environment that embraces psychological safety, so employees have the empowerment to live out loud a bit and then be vocal when they are struggling with something, um, feeling like they can they can admit that in an open and uh open way and in a safe space um and so that the company can provide more support.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so those are the cultural elements.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So building that culture, making sure that adaptability and resilience is is really, like I said, weaved into the fabric of the culture.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh policies and infrastructure that then support that culture, uh providing, for example, flexible work environments that allow for self-discovery.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so without having to take a stance on uh you know, remote or fully returned to office or hybrid, um none of that really matters.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: What matters is that um you provide the flexibility for employees to do self-discovery, to practice in environments that allow them to hone their skills, that embraces their neurodiversity, um, that it gives them the freedom, if you like, to explore outside the walls of the organization and figure out what works for them en route to being adaptable and resilient, um, because that is very personal in the end.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then tools and experiences that that promote that practice, um, you know, whether that's access to experiential learning types of programs and things like that, but but really again, um provides the infrastructure for a very readied workforce.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then just surrounding that, Paul, is uh is the things that are necessary to glue all that together.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the ability to measure those capabilities, um, very difficult to do all everything I just said blindly.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the ability to assess where you are as an organization across those pillars I just mentioned, uh, and then uh the ability to hire in to that framework, to hire into that culture, that environment that you've built, so that you're clearly communicating the values and again that focus on adaptability and resilience at the at the brand level.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, being being really out loud and proud of it at the brand level so that you're recruiting talent that really buys into that ethos.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's a lot.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a lot there in terms that that employers obviously should be thinking about.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's clearly a lot more complicated than just simply saying here is the um, you know, here is some training programs or something along those lines.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that I think is interesting about what you've what you've brought up, particularly in the sort of, you know, if you like the the culture and the and the policy level associated with this, is that there does seem to be a connection, and I know I've seen this in the uh on the employee side as well, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: There does seem to be a connection between the flexible providing people with flexible work environments and adaptability and resilience.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen people, um, employees that are um that are working in flexible work environments that uh basically, by definition, when you're working in a flexible work environment, much of the how of work and the when of work is being outsourced to you.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: You're not making those decisions, um, you're not having those decisions made for you, you're making those decisions.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that in itself um creates a set of employees that are in many cases are able to work more effectively, autonomously, um, and are able to work um more to to be, if you like, self-directed, all of those things are pretty well associated with things like adaptability and and resilience.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's fascinating.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course the other thing we've seen as well is that that you when you work in a flexible work environment, you kind of have to figure out how to be effective as an individual and how to figure out how to be effective in a work group as the um as the nature of your synchronous and asynchronous work changes around you.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so all of that is a uh are are elements that you need to discover in order to be able to uh to work effectively in those environments and therefore can make you more adaptable and resilient.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I love how you've kind of captured this idea of um of the work environment itself being connected to these traits.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and you wonder why uh stress levels are at an all-time high and and and burnouts at an all-time high, because everything you just said is additive.
• 17:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's additive to doing your core job function.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're having to spend more uh ingenuity and uh you know mental energy, uh and in some cases physical energy figuring those things out for yourself, um, which is extra, it's extra tax on top of an already very complex life that most of us live.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of employers, um, we've seen this ourselves, right?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of employers haven't really thought about it in this way.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: They haven't really thought about it in this holistic way.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're going to, though, you're gonna need to figure out how mature you are right now in those different areas.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So how do employees figure that out?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Traditionally, they don't.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I say that kind of tongue-in-cheek.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, I it traditionally it it has been very hard because there hasn't been this type of framework.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would almost separate it out into two different sort of business archetypes, uh, archetypes, if you like.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so like enterprises did have the ability to spend millions of dollars to bring in consultants to come in and observe and uh you know, over a period of time and write up some really awesome reports and do some benchmarking.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, let's face it, make some stuff up, probably in some cases.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but at least it gives you something, right?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And something is better than nothing.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and I'm uh and it could be very effective, at least as a as a baseline.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but then you think about non-enterprises like think about SMBs.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that makes up half of our economy.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no way that they can they can afford, both from a time perspective and from a money perspective, to do that sort of thing.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, nor does really anybody have the time for that these days.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know it's a bit of a platitude about, you know, kind of life is moving so fast and stuff like that, but but but seriously, I mean, we we humans are moving so fast that we don't really have the time for a 12-month consulting engagement to get a report and then to act on it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we'll be out of business.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, that's that's just that's just a fact.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um be so different during that period of time.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, heck, it had billion minds, um we have narrowed everything down to 10 minutes.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: We don't do anything, nothing longer than 10 minutes.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe this podcast.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Except this podcast.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nothing, nothing, categorically nothing, except this.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but yeah, I mean, but but in all seriousness, you know, that's that's almost like the the tolerance that we have.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's these micro adjustments that we need to make.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so really the most important thing is just to get started.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, get started with something that will give you a ballpark of of where you stand, of where you are.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, as I mentioned in Billion Minds, we do things in 10 minute chunks.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: We would the first experience that that we do and we work with employers is in fact a very quick 10-minute assessment that reveals, okay, quick and dirty, reveals the maturity across all those elements I mentioned before.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so again, we don't get into doing anything beyond that until we have a baseline, until you know that's until that step one has been completed.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's literally the only CTA on our website.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just get started.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just get started.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because that's that's change management, that's behavioral change.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, that's the just getting started is the most important thing you can do uh to institute any change, you know, big or small.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then of course, if you're not ready to do something like that, if you if you don't have 10 minutes um to spare to do something like that, get at least start to noodle on this, maybe even take some notes down.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say uh ask yourself some critical questions.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um do your employees understand the importance of adaptability resilience, period.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: All right, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So is there a familiarity with those concepts, those terms?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And do they understand what it takes to hone those skills?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um do they desire to hone those skills?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Have you have you built that?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first part is awareness, if you like.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then are do they have the desire?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do they understand the benefits that truly accrue?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do they As individuals, as humans on this earth, and then add to the company at large, the where they they spend their professional time.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Have you given them the requisite amount of freedom, flexibility, space to develop those skills?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So going back to my point I made before about uh policy and infrastructure, um, have you really promoted that and provided a you know set of tools and capabilities that allow them to practice in safe environments, for example?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then do you have your reward systems built around that?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh do you celebrate these things?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you recognize employees that are exhibiting these behaviors?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I can really uh hear your change management background coming through there because that sounds an awful lot like sorry, I can't help it guilty.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, cool.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gosh, there are so many different uh different places we could um we could take this.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think one of the more interesting areas is is the role of leadership in this and how hands-on leaders should be inside an organiz uh inside an organization.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: We had we had Carol Schultz on this podcast of uh a couple of weeks ago.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was a good one.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I heard that one.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and what was really interesting was that that Carol shared with us her opinion that that basically talent-centric organizations um which you can broadly, Carol will give you the the the full definition of that, but you can broadly think of as organizations that focus on hiring for and nurturing and growing talent inside their organization.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: So in other words, it becomes almost like a differentiator for them versus all the other companies that say that their employees are the most important asset, but don't actually do things to to ensure um that they are hiring for talent and that they are nurturing and growing talent inside their organizations.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, Carol has a really interesting point of view, which is she thinks once organizations get above a certain size, then the overhead of doing it and um if you like the the penalty for not doing it, the math changes, and and at some point there just really isn't the incentive to uh to be fully talent-centric.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um so in that in that episode, we use an example of like a large company like like Microsoft, where you and I are from, and the fact that you know if you are one of these uh large companies, you can you can lay off 10,000 people tomorrow if you want to, and then the next day if you want to hire 10 or 15,000 people, you'll have hundreds of thousands of people or even millions of people applying for those jobs.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't it doesn't really damage you um doing that and the overhead with work uh with supporting the talent in your organization in the same way that a smaller company would is just is just too high.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, what that gives the smaller organizations is an opportunity to differentiate themselves based on the growth of talent in their organization.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I'm intrigued by is you're you're talking about the idea of of um of kind of like hiring for adaptability and resilience and growing adaptability and resilience inside the organizations and creating a climate in which those characteristics can thrive.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you are one of those organizations, let's say one of these smaller organizations looking to differentiate yourself from larger companies, how hands-on should you be in making sure that this is uh this is a priority for the company and the employees know it?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, uh, you know, it the classic answer is always it depends on the organization.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm gonna just I'm gonna go with my gut here, and I'm just gonna say um, you know, very hands-on, really.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because it's because of what I said before.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's gotta be a cultural initiative, and and your leaders are the stewards of that culture.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's really how you um, you know, distill that culture throughout the organization.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think what's the kind of the duh moment here, I think, um, for for those that are leaders, um, and hopefully this resonates, is that I think maybe we've forgotten that how important it is to tell your employees what you need from them.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um just as simple as that, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know I'm kind of beaten the the example to death, but I mean, do you think Boeing tells its engineers what they need from them?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, that's it's that's very, very important that it be communicated very clearly.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, we will produce um uh you know materials and machines that are going to work and they're going to last and they're going to be safe.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I need from you.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I need you to be skilled to do that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: That that's the job of leaders now, at least, at least step one is really communicating and be very precise.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um it doesn't need to be overcomplicated.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um it could be done in a couple of sentences, truly.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, this is we recognize the changing nature of work, the changing nature of the industry.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: We can't predict what's going to happen, you know, from in in a macroeconomic way or maybe an asteroid could hit the planet.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows, right?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: We can't predict what's going to happen um tomorrow.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and because of that, because of that, in light of that, we need to focus on adaptability and resilience so that we're prepared for whatever that thing is, because we can't predict it.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, and that's one of the reasons, by the way, why um we focus on, or we shouldn't say we focus on, but we offer certifications in what we do as we help to upskill employees for adaptability and resilience.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not something we started with, by the way.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we we knew we had uh an experiential learning program that worked.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we knew that it worked, it helped people to build this set of skills, uh, and they were in fact measurable, it was observable.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but when you think of where certification fits in, it it solves almost two sides of the of the employee-employer coin, if you like.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm probably overusing a ton of different metaphors now, but uh um it allows leaders to uh get employees to really truly buy into the the commitment and it gives them the visibility um that that employees are taking it seriously.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for the employees, it's the exact same thing, but in the inverse, it gives them visible proof that they've developed the set of skills that they've bought in.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and just the same way that you would want your project managers to be PMP certified, or you want your engineers to be certified, OSHA certified, if you like.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, those those those are very, very important tools that we can use, and they shouldn't just be used for these hard skills.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: This it's very applicable here with these types of skills too.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So just mapping it back to your question about what leaders can do.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it clear communication, um, telling employees what they need, and then giving them the opportunity to prove it.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of odd when you think about it that to go back to almost like where we began this podcast, it's kind of strange that uh we have almost shied away from that when it comes to soft skills.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, and yet one of the most challenging things for employees about this new world of work is the very unstructured, ambiguous nature of it and the difficulty with understanding what success looks like.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: When we talk to employees, that's one of the things that they that they talk about all the time, which is like they they don't really understand what it is that they're supposed to be doing in order to fulfill the needs of the company.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's not been clearly articulated to them.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in this case, like that's super clear, right?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Certification makes it really clear.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I want everybody to be more adaptable and resilient, and I want them to prove it, and I want them to prove it by getting this exam.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's easy to understand, right?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so you now have some clear guidance, at least in one part, in one part of your work, how you're going to develop as a um as an employee.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're being very, very clear about that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's interesting because when we've we've seen in situations where employees are um that you might think are going to think about it in terms of, oh my goodness, they're giving me another thing to do.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Instead, they're thinking about finally I've got some clarity about how to focus my attention um in the personal development space.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that is that can be very powerful inside organizations.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen situations where CEOs have said, we're all gonna do this, I'm gonna do this myself, and uh and we're all gonna start like talking about this, using a common language associated with this and things like that.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: So so yeah, I mean it's it's it's strange that we've been as uh afraid of it, if you like, as as as as we have been, I think.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but we talked about, you know, we we talked about this idea of yeah, you give them a certification, you tell them they must do that certification, all that kind of stuff, as being an approach, but is it the only approach?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not the only approach.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we think it's it's helpful, um, but it also depends on the state of the organization.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, going back to what we said before, it almost depends on the the maturity level.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: So understanding where they are uh across those those areas.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, for example, if they already have a very you know adaptable and resilient workforce and they're really kind of in a in the higher tier of that, then um then maybe requiring um or just doing any kind of thing that's a mandate would kind of take the uh I don't know what the right word is, but maybe it would take people back, you know, pull people back from where they are instead of push them forward.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um versus if you're at the other end of the spectrum, that could be a really good signal that you know times are changing, we're re we're focusing, we're building this culture.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of where you are in terms of your development.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important to we always say meet people where they are, well, meet organizations where they are too.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um kind of like a maturity level of the organization itself.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Precisely.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maturity uh across like the spectrum of how well you've built an adaptable and resilient workforce across those elements of culture, policy, infrastructure, readiness that I mentioned before.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so the other thing I would like to bring back is a word you mentioned before is making the intangible tangible.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Certification is very tangible, but if you have other means to, you know, to make this more tangible for employees, that could work too.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just, you know, I'm kind of just freestyling here a little bit.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, think about uh those really vibrant Slack channels that we have with some of our billion minds customers, um, or the celebrations that we have on LinkedIn, so really living out loud, those are also very tangible things.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think the most important thing is that it is tangible.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh requiring or mandating and focusing on the certification is a tangible thing, but there's other ways to achieve that tangibility too.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: The most important thing is that you have something and then you're and you understand that when you're communicating this, you you understand what it really takes to motivate people for change and you have all the ingredients of that, you know, awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, and and then you're reinforcing it constantly.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the most important thing.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it sounds like even if you are mandating, um, employees also need to understand how it benefits them personally.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: So um why don't we just spend like a couple of minutes going into what those benefits are for employees?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I think that's the most important thing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, if you think about how it makes you feel when uh you get a note from leadership or from HR that says, um, hey, I need you to do this thing.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: That that's it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, go go fill this out or complete this or take this or or what have you without really communicating what it means for them as an individual.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even even if you're communicating what it means for the company, that's still a layer removed from what it means for you as a human.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so focusing on the benefits that accrue to the individual are very important.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, every individual is at a different stage.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think is really a really awesome and almost surprising learning that we've had uh through our journey is this kind of discovery around how well all this aligns to the stages of life.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, really.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if you think about, as I said, meeting people where they are, well, people are at different places at different stages of life, and you can you can almost um you know think about it, and I'm just gonna choose the the three, um, or or I'll choose uh three, not the three.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: But uh early in career talent, right?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: So think about that as being like your growth stage.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, employees are just getting into the workforce, um, they're excited, uh, you know, probably a bit nervous even to some degree, and they want to have, you know, maybe hit that first big milestone.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's a promotion, maybe that's moving in the in the organization or moving up and into a better role, or even changing uh jobs, you know, changing companies even.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: But you're it's a growth thing.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're you're you're moving up, you know, you're moving up, you're moving forward, but you're relatively unburdened in the rest of your personal life.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe, you know, just uh you've just recently got out of school, you maybe you know you're renting, maybe you haven't purchased a made a big purchase in your life and you know what have you, but your life is maybe a little bit less complicated at that point.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then what I'd like to probably do probably doesn't feel that way.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but that's a good point.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: It probably feels really chaotic, but then that's that's like that's a good setup, actually, Paul.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that um as chaotic as that feels, then when stuff gets really real, then you realize what real chaos is.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then what you're trying to discover then is harmony.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that second stage is is that harmony stage where you're you're trying to find harmony.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you've you've got that job.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's it's steady now.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've kind of you've found your niche, if you like, you've found your way in the in the workforce a bit.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe you've got a specialized set of skills, but but you feel like you're in the workforce, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you've carved out your spot.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then you add, I don't know, significant other to the picture.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you add children to the picture.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh these are the things that start to complicate the rest of your life that puts a lot of pressure on your work life.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And your objective there is to find harmony.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, and then I'll just go through the third stage and then I'll map it back to um to adaptability and resilience.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, later on in your career, you know, maybe that's more of the preservation stage or the sustainability stage.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, perhaps you've got a situation where you've got aging parents or a health event.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Those are things that are pretty common later stage, and you start thinking, holy cow, I can't lose my health benefits now.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: My focus is on, you know, I need to persevere, I need to preserve this thing that I've got.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and so and this introduces a kind of a new set of complexities.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to make sure that I'm still very relevant, that my skills are still very applicable.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so all of these different emotional reactions to the stage that you're in, there's there's an adaptability and resilience angle to all of it.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so going back to the growth stage, you're you're you're out of college, um, you're looking, you're trying a bunch of different things, you're experimenting with different jobs, you need to be very adaptable in where your career goes.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um you need to be able to roll with it uh and and not kind of think about everything is etched in stone, but you know, be be flexible and be adaptable, and then be resilient to some of those forces that are uh that are applied on you.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: You've got new managers, you know, coming in and out of your life, for example.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: So there's gonna be a lot of things that change that you're gonna have to roll with.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have to you're gonna have to grit through.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, at the harmony stage, uh, you know, it's very easy to replace harmony with work-life balance.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like the term work-life balance because it implies, you know, yeah, uh you say it better than I do, but um, it it implies that you have to sacrifice one for the other, like a zero-sum game, if you like.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you really what you're trying to find is a way to maintain your level of performance uh and and sustain that through uh while also being a good husband or a good father or you know, a good teammate or whatever, you know, all the different areas outside of your life.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so finding harmony there, being adaptable to those changes coming in and out of your life, again, whether it's children, a life, another life event.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then lastly, again, at the perseverance stage or the preservation stage, if you like, it's um that ability to keep on skilling and upskilling, reskilling and upscaling, reskilling and upskilling, staying relevant, staying current, um, and and focusing on that adapting resilience is at the core of that.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean correct me if I'm wrong, if I'm wrong, but I don't think you're saying that like it's it is literally like when you're 23, you're in this stage, when you're 35, you're in this stage, or whatever.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, everybody's lives are gonna be different and they're gonna have elements of uh of each of these things.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it is an interesting way to kind of like think through the fact that people's motivations for having these types of skills are different, right?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so um as an employer, um if you can connect with the um with the benefits that people see personally out of this and understand that they are gonna be different for different people in different phases of their lives, um, or just left different life experiences, that can be that can be really helpful.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I agree.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's not a it's not a statement of of age or gender or anything.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's it's it's just a it's just a neat alignment that we've seen.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's basically kind of a life archetype more than it is anything else.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love the way you put that life architect.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: So so of those three, the sort of growth stage, harmony stage, and preservation stage, what what's what's become most important to you personally?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say that I uh I resonate most with the harmony stage right now.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for a for a variety of reasons.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'd say that I I never really anticipated um even early in my career, I never anticipated that I was gonna be a co-founder of a startup, you know, for one, and and that's and all the different complexities and and stresses associated with that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I never really realized dealing with my co-founder, my goodness.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: This guy.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then um I don't think I could have never planned for my my children being as advanced as they are in their in their craft, which they they play competitive soccer and the stresses that that has on our our life.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we literally travel every weekend, um, thousands of miles in many cases.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and then obviously the downstream of that.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and you know this well because we work together, we've had to modify our working relationship to accommodate for that part of my life.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then, you know, uh the migraines, dude.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's yeah, gotta I I bake those into my schedule now.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's just that's my health event, if you like, that's been fairly it's happened throughout the course of my career, but it's gotten worse um later in life in terms of frequency.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I need to I need to plan for that, unfortunately.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but it's better to plan for than not, you know.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: So having to be you know resilient to get through that, but you know, being being adaptable and having an adaptable framework around me, my family, my friends, my colleagues um that you know understand and and can help me um and and understand when I might need to make you know adjustments uh to how I how I work or when I work.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I mean, and just trying to find the harmony and all that, I I believe that that's that's where I'm at.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Really, really interesting.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we're close to wrapping up here.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've got one last question for you.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if I was an employer today, wrestling with this stuff, what how do I get started on all this?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh do something.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I'd say if you want to know, if you want my advice on what that something is, um go to billiumminds.com and click that get started button.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only call to action on there.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, start getting a baseline of where you are uh across those those different pillars of you know, culture, policy, infrastructure, readiness.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh get a baseline.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, get a quick and dirty, something you can socialize with your fellow leaders and your colleagues.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um whether you immediately act on it or uh whether it's something that you just use to foster a dialogue, uh it it it it move forward, you know, move forward in some way.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that to me is a very easy, like I said, sub-10-minute thing that you can do.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that doesn't cost you anything, um, but it gives you something that's uh of value.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it just get started.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I think that that's that's really, really good advice, Ryan, because a lot of people as we started off this podcast today, have been they get stuck when it comes to things like soft skills, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: And in reality, there's no need for that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um making that's a that's a statement about how intangible historically they've been.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: They don't need to be that intangible.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and really kind of creating a concrete understanding of where you are so that you can form a concrete plan in order to be more effective in this domain is doable and within reach.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: So why not?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: Completely agree.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh thank you so much for joining us today, Ryan.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I know, because I work with you how busy you are, so really appreciate your uh uh your time with us uh with us today, and uh and we'll see you again soon on the pub.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really enjoyed it.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks a lot.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Humanity Working is produced and edited for Billion Minds by Matt Neal.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Our interviewer is Paul Slater.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Music is by Dolo Records.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you like this podcast, please subscribe, like, and recommend us to others.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: It helps us reach more people.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to learn more about how Billion Minds gets companies ready for the future of work by building adaptable, resilient employees, look for them on LinkedIn or visit their website at billionminds.com.