Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan : Decoding Death The Gruesome Case of Jonathan Willette

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan : Decoding Death The Gruesome Case of Jonathan Willette · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan in death Investigation.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I've been there to try to make sense at many
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: scenes about what the catalyst was that started the wheels
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: in motion. When you think about bodies being torn to
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: ribbons and you only have a remnant left behind. Many
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: times sometimes bodies are intact, but many times we show
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: up at scenes and all you're left with this evidence
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of horror. Today we're going to talk about a gentleman
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: who was previously married to a lady by the name
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: of Devin Michaels. To make matter is even more interesting,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: this woman is in now married to this gentleman's son,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: this gentleman Jonathan Willett, and he was literally butchered. I'm
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Joseph god Morgan and this is Bodybags. So you're a
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: young cop. You walk into a room and probably the
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: first thing that you're expecting to see if you've been
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: called out on a death, is a dead body. Sometimes
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: your senses are hit with the odor of decomposition. Many
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: times you smell things before you see them. This does happen,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: but in today's case, you're hit with a smell that
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: is not decompositional, but you're actually hit with a very
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: strong chemical odor. And when you do finally see the body,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: you see smoke what they define or call smoke emanating
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: from these remains. It's a real conundrum.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: As a parent, I can't imagine any worse than finding
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: your child dead. But what will its mother found was
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: his body, there's no head. We don't know where the
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: head is. Even as we do this show today, we
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: still don't know. That's why we're doing the show body
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: Bags today. On Wonderful Devin Michaels and the relationship she
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: had with her husband and her baby daddy husband and
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: her husband actually was the baby of the daddy that
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: she's married. Well you get the picture.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, It's almost like you need a lineup card or
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: maybe a playbill to keep up. It's when I first
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: came across this case, I was dumbfounded because I couldn't
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: make sense of what I think sociologists like to refer
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: to as the familial dynamic. Don't you love that academic turn.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I hope that you're impressed and you think about this
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: dynamic that was going on in this household, and it's
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: to say that it is strange would be an understatement.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: But what we do know as you mentioned this poor
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: gentleman's mother, and no, I can't frame this in any
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: other way. I can't make sense of it. When she
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: comes into the bedroom there before her lais only who
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: she can assume is her son, wrapped in a blanket.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: And then you try to rouse him out of bed.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: You're shake him, perhaps as maybe your mama shook you,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: my mama shook me. Wake up, get ready. He's forty
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: six years old at this point, and there she is
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: attempting to wake him up. But there's something odd about
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: the shape of his body. Because even if you have
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: a body that is covered or obscured by some kind
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: of covering, there's still enough within us where we recognize
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: form and function that you can automatically see. I think
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: if you're not looking through the mother's eyes, there's something
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: wrong here. And what would be wrong is that this
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: gentleman is actually absent head. It's not going to look right, No,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: it's not. It will be certainly bizarre to try to
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: pick up on this and try to understand it. And
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: how do you make sense of this as a mom.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought that up, because the mom is
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: going to call nine one one and she's going to
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: have to explain the dynamic here. Devin Michael's forty five
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: year old suspect, female Jonathan Willett is forty six. He
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: is the victim. He is the headless man now in
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: the bed and by the way, chemical smell and fumes
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: seen coming from his body. His mom, Mister Willett's mother
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: has to explain to nine to one one what she
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: has just seen. And she doesn't really know because again
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: there is no head. She doesn't know what she's actually seen.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: She just know that it's not good. Devin Michaels is
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: married to Jonathan Willett, the victim, married to his adult son,
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: and all we hear about from this standpoint is that
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: it was a marriage of convenience to help with some
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: medical issues that Devin Michaels has. I don't know what
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: these medical issues are, but that was the reason given
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: for why even though she has been in a married
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: relationship with Jonathan Willett, the victim, she married the victim's son.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Jonathan Willett and Devin Michaels have two children together. Jonathan
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Willett's mother is dealing with her son, her grandson, and
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: her grandson is married to her son's wife, and there
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: are two children in here that are either children, grandchildren,
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: great grandchildren, or aunt uncle cousins. I'm not sure that's
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: what we've got going on.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and let me ask one more thing. And I
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: know that you're not necessarily going to have to answer
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to this, but the authorities are saying that she was
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: married to him, or that she's married to the son,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: but yet she is in a marriage like relationship with
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: the victim. So on top of this, are all three
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: parties married have a matrimonial or relationship in the sense
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: of law, And is she a bigamist? I'm thinking about
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: why would she have perpetrated such a horrific crime that
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: the authorities at this point in time are pointing at
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: her as the primary culprit here? And you think about
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: this dynamic that's going on, being involved with the husband's
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: son in a matrimonial relationship. Was it just too much
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to take? And you think about, well, it's for the
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: convenience of medical condition. Well, yeah, I mean maybe she
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: was under insured or had no insurance in vis a
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: vis the victim. She had insurance being able to cover
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: whatever this issue was, But you got it, admit, just
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: give me this. There are a myriad of other rationales
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: that could come into play here that could be the
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: motivating factor. And there's some kind of sinister stuff that
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: she's told the police was the rationale for her taking
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: his life. I believe over the course of my career,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: particularly in academia, I've had students that have taken my
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: medical legal death investigation course and they have asked me,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: have I ever seen anything supernatural happen? And I tell
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: them no, and it's always a shock to them. I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: think that they think that just because I'm around the dead,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: have been around the dead all of my adult life,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that I'm somehow haunted, And no, I'm more haunted by
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the living than I ever have been by the dead.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I can assure you of that.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: You mentioned kind of sitting up with the dead, I
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: will tell you very quickly. I worked for a funeral
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: home when I was in my first years of RadioU.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: I didn't make enough money, so I actually drove caskets
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: around and stuff like that to make extra money so
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: I could eat, and one night I had to set
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: up with the dead. Because you can't leave a body
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: and if you're home that is not guarded there has
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: to be somebody in there in case there's a fire.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: You got the body's the only thing that matters. Nothing else,
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: burner all down. I didn't know that, but I was
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: in there and they had a visitation, had a lot
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: of people show up in the body that was in
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: the casket. Well, his hair got a little mussed up,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: and they were like, can you fix that for tomorrow.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: I got an early visitation with the family, just a family,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: very private, very early. Would you take care of this day? Well,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: the dude was wearing a pinstripe suit. Joe, you know
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: what that means, The optical illusion. You find it on
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: television sets all the time when people wear certain things
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: and your eyes play tricks on you. You look at a
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: dead body wearing a pinstripe suit, and that body will
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: go the breathing begins, They will breathe. I saw it
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: with my own two eyes. I know I saw it.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: And back then we didn't have cell phones. I had
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: a corded phone. It had a rotary dial. I took
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: that court as far as I could to get away
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: from that body. I'm hanging out the front door. I'm
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: calling the funeral home director. Dude, you got to get
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: I'm out, I'm leaving. And he did everything he could
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: to calm me down. He explained, I saw it, he's breathing. Man,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: you got a live guy in the box.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: But it didn't happen though, and that's not the reality.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And look, if that man could have sat up at
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: that point in time, listen, first off, you wouldn't be
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: talking to me. You'd be a very wealthy man. This
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: is what I do know. I've never had the dead
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: speak to me. And the one thing I can confirm
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: to you scientifically is that the dead cannot make excuses,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: they cannot offer up solutions, they cannot bear testimony on
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: their behalf.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: Now the police show up, Joe and there because Mom
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: calls and we got a mess on our hands and
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: the police show up. Do they make the call immediately?
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: We know this, We don't have to worry about this
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: crime scene and we don't want anybody else here. The
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: dead body is here with no head, so we know
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: we got to deal with this. This is the elephant
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: in the room. Did they call you immediately and say
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: can you need to get over here?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: What did the police do? First things? When you find
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: a body with no head? And you've got suspects.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in a case like this, even if the e
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: if we don't make immediate entry. In most jurisdictions that
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I worked in, I had a very good rapport with
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: the police department. I was the one constant in the universe.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: There would be investigators that would come and go and
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: would move on to new jobs, but I would always
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: be there. It was my job. That's what I had
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of young investigators for the police that would say, hey,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: what do I do now? And so I would be
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: there on the shoulder the older guys. Sometimes they would wait,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: hold me back, and then I would come in and
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: do my thing. But in a case like this, particularly
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: when you are absent a significant element of the body
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: ahead in this case, I would be there, ready to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: rock and roll and ready to look for any evidence
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: that I could to try to track down the head.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I can tell you another thing that they would probably
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: do in a case like this, and I don't know
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: that they did. This was actually it's adjacent to Vegas.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: It's actually in Henderson. For people that are curious, I
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: don't know if the Henderson police actually called out a dog,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: but a dog would give you an idea to be
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: able to track this down if they have a sample
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: of blood, which they would in this particular case. Heads
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: are very bloody. They're very bloody things because they are
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: This is what's so fascinating. We don't know a lot
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: about this at this point. The head is the most
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: vascular area of the human body, so you have the
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: most blood flow that is going to the head because
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the brain requires so much. So even in death or
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: even in a decapitation, there will be blood draining, gravitational
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: draining out of that opening in the neck. You've got
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: a head that is severed away from the body. I
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: cannot imagine under any circumstances that if his head was
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: removed at that site that you would not at least
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: have passive droplets of dynamic blood flow that are like
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: dripping on the floor everywhere you go unless you have
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: a catch basin. Did this person think about that? And
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I know it's horrible for me as a forensics guy
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: if I have no blood there. There's a couple of
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: things that I'm considering if I have a body that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: has been decapitated, I want to know, First off, was
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: this individual decapitated, There was the blood drained from their
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: body prior to arrival at this location where they're deposited,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: and if they were killed there, where the heck is
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: the blood, because I would expect there to be copious
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: amounts of blood, not just in the area where the
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: head was removed, saying that it's removed on a bed,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the mattress, in the bed, clothes and everything would be
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: super saturated. But you would have dave betrayal of blood
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: leading away. Even if you try to wrap it in towels,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: you would still have that happen. And of course I
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: would look for any drains that were nearby, anything a sink,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: an outdoor spicott or a drain that leads down the
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: ground in the bathroom, looking at the bathroom sink, the toilet,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the tub, just to see if people are trying to
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: clean up. It's a creepy kind of thing as an
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: investent skater, when you kind of step back and you
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: think about it, you think, I've got to put myself
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: into the mindset of someone that has just killed and
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: decapitated someone, and you let that sink in. And now
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: that you know I'm older and I talk to my students,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: you know I'll have my students and I'll talk to
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: them about a case like this, and they'll sit back
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: and their eyes kind of open up, you know, and
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: they're thinking, oh my god, I'm in the room with
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: a monster. But you know, for a moment, you have
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: to translate yourself into that environment. And as these investigators
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: begin to process the scene, that's one of the things
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: that they're thinking about.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: To cut a head off the victim here, they're going
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: to have to already be dead. I would think you're
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: not going to be able to cut somebody's head off
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: if they're alive, right, unless it's a really I mean
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: like a guillotine. I'm not you know, I'm talking about it, just.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Right, a guillotine. And there are execution cases from antiquity
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: for a case like this where a body is in
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: fact decapitated, and there's any number of ways that decapitations
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: can can happen, certainly swords from antiquity, and there are
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: traumatic decapitations, and you see them, believe it or not,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: with great frequency in motor vehicle accidents. It happens with
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: some frequency in those cases. But in this particular case,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: you would have had to have had someone first off
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that would have had the will to do this, and
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: it doesn't take a lot of skill in order to
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: do it, but you do, as in this case, have
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to have someone that is compliant. And when you're talking
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: about an alleged female perpetrator and a grown man, there's
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: no doubt in my mind that he was already to
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: seize when that head came off. Dave MC, I don't
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: know if it is just the subject matter that you
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: and I talk about, or if it is a a
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: real thing, but it seems to me, and I think
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: I've said this on other episodes, and I will continue
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: to say it because it keeps slapping me. The reality
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: keeps slapping me in my face. It seems to me
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: that we are encountering more and more cases with either
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: decapitations or dismemberments. It seems like we've covered so many
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: of these things over the past few months. It's amazing
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: to me. It takes almost an iron will in order
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: to facilitate this, and it's almost like people are desensitized
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: to it.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that's the case, if we are
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: desensitized and they're just more of them happening because of that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: I just remember when you and I were kids and
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: whenever somebody did something crazy, it was if it was
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: a teenager, it was because of TV, and then it
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: was Dungeons and Dragons, and then it was this in
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: video game and rock and roll. Yeah, oh, I forgot
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: about those guys. So I think there's always something, But
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know if it's where there is more happening
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: in terms of people being dismembered, or if we just
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: hear about it, because there is a twenty four hour
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: news cycle that has to be filled with information, and
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: crime is a big one. But I do think it's
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: worthy of some real statistical help from college professors that
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: could make students to a project. I'm not suggesting a
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: class project for your class, but I think you could
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: do some independent study where they go off on their
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: own and study and you if you need me, call
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: me at the house.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I got a cup of coffee. Yeah, light bulbs are
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: going off.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: So anyway, I don't know if it's happening more, but
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: I do know this, Joe, I have been putting more
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: and more of these shows together, and as I have
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: said many times, if anything were going to happen to
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: a loved one of mine and the police came and
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: looked at books and videos and the shows that I do.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: They probably won't even bother asking me any questions. They'll
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: just go cuff him back of the car. I don't
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: know about Devin Michaels and Jonathan Willett. I don't know
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: about their relationship, but I do know that somehow Someway,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: his forty six year old body ended up without a head,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: and she is arrested and charged with the crime of murder.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: But my questions still comes back to what are they
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: actually seeing on the body. We've got it from the
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: police report. Henderson Police wrote that his head was severed
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: and was not located at the scene, which means there's
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: got to be some really serious pre planning that that
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: body and head were separated, and they're not seeing as
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: you mentioned in the last segment about blood everywhere. They
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: don't see a trail of blood leading to wherever this
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: head is, or.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: At least they're not saying it at this point, Tom, Yeah.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Or they're not seeing blood from the body coming in
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: the head being left out somewhere else. But beyond that,
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the police are noting there was a chemical smell, a
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: chemical smell, and fumes could be seen coming from his body.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: What are they talking about, Joe, Have you ever had
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: this happen to you know what this is?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Actually I have because cleaned a lot of morks
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: over the course of my career, and there are certain
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: chemical combinations that you do not want to be near.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I've actually commingled substances in the morgue where I had
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: to get out of the morgue and leave. A matter
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: of fact, I ran a forensic pathologist out of the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: morgue one time when I was attempting to clean up
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: a big mess of blood that we had, and it
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: was quite noxious. But what they're saying, Dave, is that
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: there was a strong get this, There was a strong
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: smell ammonia and bleach. That combination of itself. Now hold
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: on to your hat. That is actually a combination that
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: can wind up producing chlorine gas, which is actually an
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: anti personnel gas that was used in World War One
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: and it's still used in the Middle East in certain places.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: It irritates the eyes, it causes hemorrhagic reactions, and the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: lungs when they are comingled like that in the right
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: order and the right amounts, it can really wind up
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: creating this lethal event. That's why when you are a
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: an investigator and you walk onto a scene, I always
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: keep in mind that someone has just died here, and
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: they probably had more value on the person's life that
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: died than they would on mine. As an investigator coming in,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I always assume that every environment is deadly, and if
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: you walk into this environment, the first thing you should
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: do if you smell this, and they didn't just smell it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Dave the police described this as what appeared to be
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: smoke coming from the body. And one of the things
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: that happens when you get these commingled substances is that
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: they begin to kind of bubble up. It's like a
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: bad chemistry experiment. It's going to ry. And they don't
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: really comment any further about this. This is the type
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: of thing that you would need to call the fire
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: department out there. This is dangerous stuff. And the police
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: officers are walking into this environment. So not only are
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: they contending with a headless remain a mother who is grieving,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: but they're also contending with the fact that there's some
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: kind of knock odor in the air. And listen, anybody
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: in the sound of my voice that's ever come in
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: contact with ammonia. You know, it's the same thing they
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: make smelling sauce out of to wake you up. There's
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: a reason it does. It's horrible, it's absolutely horrible, but
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it's used in cleaning. You combine that with bleach, so
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: it begs a question. Why would a headless body, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: remember we were talking about blood earlier, Why would a
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: headless body being obscured by bedclothing? Why would it be
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: emanating smoke and this odor. When I think about this,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I begin to think about was there an attempt to
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: clean up? That jumps to mine first, and what do
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: you associate with really getting things clean? Well, ammonia certainly
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: people think that bleach just makes everything disappear and vanish.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: When you think about that, Okay, well they're starting to
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: put two and two together. Were there containers of bleach
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: and ammonia around there? Was there an attempt to clean up?
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Had she been in this accused, had she been in
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the room with a body long enough so that if
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: there was blood there, maybe there were scrub brushes as well,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: or maybe there were rags, maybe there was a garbage
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: pail there, or just maybe every evidence of cleaning up
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: left along with the head in the same back. Now
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: that in and of itself is quite the conundrum, because
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: all you have to do is drive down the road
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: you find age. A matter of fact, I think my
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: garbage bind is still sitting out by the road because
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I didn't take it in and we just had trash
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: pick up. But think about that, if there's a garbage
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: bin sitting out by the road, you could tie the
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: thing off, drop in a garbage bin, and the garbage
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: guys are going to come by and pick it up,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: and no one will be any the wiser. I don't
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: know that they will ever find this poor man's head,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: and that's problematic for them because this is the thing.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: She apparently admits day that, by virtue of some of
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the things that he had said to her that had
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: kind of a sexual connotation, she took a stick and
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: hit him in the head. This accused is actually stating
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: that she did this in order to knock him out,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: in order to I can't remember, in order to make
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: sure the children were okay, or that she was okay
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: or okay.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: At first, I didn't do it. I don't know what
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: you're talking about. He was supposed to move in with me,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: but he did and he's upstairs in his own bet,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know what you're talking about. Then it was well,
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: wait a minute, Yeah, I was in there with him,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: and he did want me to perform a sex act.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to do it, so I popped him
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: on the head. And then during the interviews, because they
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: are experts at this, is it possible, Devin, that you
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: maybe just spitball in here. Maybe you hit him a
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: little harder than you thought. Maybe, I mean, is that possible.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: The minute she says, oh, yeah, that's possible, she basically
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: admitted I killed him. But the thing is, Joe, we
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: still have a body with fumes, chemicals and no head.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: We know one thing that mom who found the body
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: also can't find her meat cleaver. What is it like
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: for somebody who is not a doctor to cut through
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: bone muscle send you all the stuff in you. I'm
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: assuming that's where you're going to go.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is where you're going to go. And
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: remember a meat cleaver, the configuration of it traditionally has
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: been made with a very heavy spine on it, and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the spine of the meat cleaver is meant to transfer
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: that energy from that weight of the spine down into
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the fine blade, which is more narrow, and of course
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: the sharper the blade, the more effective it is. Meat Cleavers,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: like axes, though they do have a leading sharp edge
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: on them, do not make clean cuts unless they are
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: honed to a surgical edge and you have sufficient strength.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: You have to have energy in order to drive it
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: down onto the object that you're trying to split in two,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: in this case with a neck, and she's going to
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: have to go through vertebral bodies. And it's easy for
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: somebody to say, oh, well, she would just go in
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: between the vertebral bodies. Really that's like that's like saying, Okay,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hit a one hundred mile per hour
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: fastball and I'm taking over the left field fence. I'm
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: going to pull it down the line. You might say
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: that you're going to do that, but you're not going
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: to do it. The idea that you could actually swing
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: a meat cleaver with sufficient energy to take a head
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: off in one fail swoop or maybe even two is
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: complete fantasy. You're going to strike, you're going to misstrike,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: and your strike multiple times. Even butchers, when you see
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: them butcher meat with a meat cleaver, they're striking that
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: multiple times. Now, if the late is sharp enough, they
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: can drive through the meat itself. But even butchers, even
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: butchers have bone sauce. There's a reason they do that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: So just because you swing, it doesn't mean that you're
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: going to hit the disc that actually separates the spinal
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: vertebral bodies. That's a it's not a one in a
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: million shot, but it's hard. Particularly because the back of
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: the neck is covered in soft tissue. You can't appreciate
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the skeletal structure beneath the neck. You're just wildly swinging
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: at this point in time. So when you would examine
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: these injuries, the skin itself will have a very jagged
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: edge to it. More than likely the muscle just beneath
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: will certainly be ragged to a great degree. And also
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: the bone. Once let's say that just that that bone,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: if she went between you have the cervical for tebral bodies.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: So if you think about C one is what's referred
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: to as the Atlas, it's like the god Atlas holding
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: the earth up, that classic image that we've seen in
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: antiquity C one, C two, C three, C four, C five,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: C six, And so you get down to like the
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: C four area C five that's kind of exposed. So
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: as you strike it, more than likely you're going to
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: have a strike that's not going to go all the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: way through. What's it going to strike. Well, it's going
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: to strike tissue, bone, any kind of sinew, and it's
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: also going to strike the vertebral body and it will
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: leave a mark there. Now, the head, there's a high
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: probability that that head, even at this point, still has
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: attached vertebral bodies to it, which could be examined by
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: a tool mark expert if they find it. What is
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: left behind will also have marks as well that we'll
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: have tool marks on them, and there will be multiple
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: strikes on that because every time this meat cleaver is
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: brought down, you essentially scratch that bone. You cut a
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: little channel that is actually if you look at it
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: on as long axis is actually V shaped all the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: way down. It marries up with a blade and you'll
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: have these multiple V shaped strikes all the way across
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: the bone, and those can be married up to the
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: meat clean But the problem here is this the mother
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: is saying she's missing the meat clever. They don't have
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: that at the time of this recording. To marry those
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: two things up and compare them. What we do know
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: is that we have a body that is absent its head.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: There's a high probability that there are tool marks on
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: what remains of the neck that could be married up.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: We have what appears to be perhaps an attempted clean
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: up and a crime scene. And at this point, at
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: this time of the recording, we have only an accused person.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I'm Josephcott Morgan and this is body backs