Latest / The PCR Sports Show / The PCR Sports Show - Friday 15th August 2025 - The Refereeing Special with Dan England and Jamie Carter from Hunts FA.

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The PCR Sports Show - Friday 15th August 2025 - The Refereeing Special with Dan England and Jamie Carter from Hunts FA. · The PCR Sports Show

• 0:00
  Good evening everyone, welcome to another edition of the PCR
• 0:03
  Sports show here on PCR FM and we've got a brilliant show for
• 0:07
  you tonight. We have got Dan England and
• 0:10
  Jamie Carter in from Hunts FA and we're going to be talking
• 0:14
  all about referee and really been looking forward to this one
• 0:17
  for a few weeks. But as usual, we've got the
• 0:21
  headlines. First this week, read by Nilesh.
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  Thank you very much Nigel and what a lovely sunny evening it
• 0:27
  is as well here in Peterborough. But let's start off with some
• 0:30
  cricket. As the season comes to an end in
• 0:33
  the next month or so for many of our local cricket clubs, Market
• 0:36
  Deeping completed back-to-back wins for the first time this
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  season to move out of the relegation zone in the Links
• 0:42
  Premier Division. Deeping beat neighbors Born by 6
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  wickets at Outgang Rd. last Saturday after making light work
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  of A50 over Victory target of 269, the hosts had almost 15
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  overs to spare when securing victory.
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  Opener Josh Smith led the way with 111 from just 74 balls and
• 1:02
  in innings that included 14 fours and five sixes.
• 1:06
  Sam Jarvis contributed a more sedate 60 before Asha Mahmoud
• 1:10
  blasted an unbeaten 66 from 35 which included five sixes to
• 1:15
  guide Deeping home. Deeping have another big game
• 1:18
  this Saturday when visiting local rivals and fellow
• 1:21
  strugglers Spalding Standing. Peterborough Town skipper was on
• 1:28
  the losing side in the Northants Premier Division game at
• 1:31
  Kislymbra Temperance. Josh Smith of Town looks set to
• 1:34
  maintain contact with leaders finding when reducing their
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  hosts to 43 for four in pursuit of 254 for six.
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  Smith, 122 not out, had dominated the city's side
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  innings with his 3rd century of the season.
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  He has now 735 runs at an average in excess of 90 / 200
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  more runs than any other player. But yet another Smith, current N
• 2:00
  Hamps batting coach and former Derbyshire and Essex first class
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  player Greg delivered a match winning unbeaten 106 for
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  Kislingbury during an unbroken 5th wicket stand of 215 with
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  Zakir Khawaja. Town have now lost three top
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  flight games this season, all against teams currently in the
• 2:19
  bottom four. They take on a Stony Stratford
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  side bolstered by Somerset County Cricket Club legend James
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  Hildreth at Bretton Gate on Saturday.
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  In an 11:00 start Oundle Town took advantage of the slip up by
• 2:33
  local rivals to jump into second, but both have now over
• 2:37
  30 points to make up on. Finding Oundle demolished Old
• 2:41
  Northamptonians by 9 wickets in a match that lasted a little
• 2:44
  over 32 overs. In motorcycling and a recent
• 2:50
  guest of ours, Young Guy Hunt rider Harry Cook delivered a
• 2:53
  master class performance in his first outing in the BM WF900R
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  Cup in round six of the Bennetts British Super Bikes Championship
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  at Thruxton. As temperatures soared to
• 3:06
  scorching levels for Sundays main 10 lap race, Cook faced his
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  biggest test yet. Starting from his heat 1 result
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  position of 7th, he found himself in the thick of intense
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  mid pack battles throughout the race.
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  In a weekend where several experienced campaigners fell by
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  the wayside, Cook kept his head down and his BMW pointing
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  forward. Most impressively, he
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  demonstrated the situational awareness that separates good
• 3:32
  riders from great ones, successfully avoiding a last
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  corner incident that could have ruined his weekend.
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  When the chequered flag fell, Cook had secured a highly
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  creditable 12th place finish, setting a fastest lap of a one
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  minute 23 seconds in the process, a time that would have
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  placed him seventh in qualifying.
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  Showing his continued improvement throughout the
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  weekend In Bowles, Whittlesey Manor have retained the
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  Peterborough League's Monday Shield but this time it was the
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  clubs B team who did the business against the West Ward
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  at Central Park. Winning the double rink final
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  3629, the Yaxley club claimed a second plate competition win by
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  defeating Borough's Court 3926 in what was the repeat of the
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  previous week's Rowlett Plate decider.
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  The Yaxley B team included nine year old Rosie Marchant who is
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  part of a 10 strong junior section at the club.
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  The youngsters have been recruited from the club's open
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  day visiting schools and three have a go Saturday morning
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  sessions. Club official Robert Heath
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  commented a major success has been getting the first few
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  youngsters out onto the green. Once children see others their
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  own age enjoying the sport it naturally sparks their interest.
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  This enthusiasm is contagious and more often than not leads to
• 4:55
  new junior players joining the club in BMX and the Peterborough
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  BMX club have secured A creditable 3rd place finish in
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  the Eastern Regional Summer Series.
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  It was an improvement on last seasons 5th place finish and the
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  club also claimed 8 individual first place finishes.
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  The final heat of the series was held at the club's home track in
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  Alton, Melbourne with over 200 competitors taking part and nine
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  of the 26 host club race races picked up wins.
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  Anyone interested in BMX racing can book a free valuation,
• 5:30
  sorry, free valuation, free induction even and the club run
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  regular coaching, racing and open practices.
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  All enquiries can be made by the club Facebook page which is the
• 5:42
  Peterborough BMX Club in football news And Peterborough
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  Sports chief Michael Gash was keen to pick out the positives
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  from an opening day National League N defeat at Chester,
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  which in particular saw a dazzling display from new
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  striker Josiah Dyer. Dyer scored both sports goals in
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  A32 defeat at the hands of one of the title favourites.
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  He replied instantly on 2 occasions to Chester taking the
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  lead, a fact that also highlighted the character in the
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  city's club's squad. Dyer is a former Barnsley player
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  and a current Montserrat international, but this was his
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  first experience of Step 2 football in England.
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  Sports were without former Peterborough United striker
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  Shaquille Coulterst because of a knee injury and Kane Felix
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  picked up a similar problem during the Chester game and had
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  to limp off. Coulterst faced 6 to 6 four to
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  six weeks on the sidelines while Felix is also facing some time
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  on the sidelines as well. Veterans Centre forward Mark
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  Jones missed the game with a calf issue but could return for
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  Saturday's home clash with newly promoted Merthyr Town and the
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  Welsh club opened their campaign with A2 nil win over Southport.
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  Sports are also at home to Leamington on Tuesday the 19th
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  of August and finishing with a little bit of athletics.
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  The Peterborough 5K Grand Prix series concluded at Fairy
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  Meadows with Peterborough and Dean Valley's AC Stuart Hall
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  having to settle for 2nd place after a closely fought Sprint
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  finish. Hall was caught by Julian
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  Moynihan of Ely Runners which is 50 meters left to race and
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  Moynihan managed to edge ahead by just a few meters, winning in
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  a time of 1528 and two milliseconds compared to Halls
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  of 1528 and seven milliseconds. The ladies race result was more
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  clear cut with Katie Vargasen of Lonely Goats Running Club
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  winning and Yaxley teenager Molly Speechley in second.
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  Speechley easily won the series female Under 17 category and
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  another former guest of the Peterborough PCR Sports Show,
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  Lawson Capes, returned to winning ways in the English
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  Athletics Under 17 Championship at Birmingham.
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  The Pamvac throwing ace won the shot put with a throw of 17
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  metres and 66 centimetres. A consistent Capes threw within
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  10 centimetres of that distance in two of his other 3 throws.
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  Capes also competed in the discus where he threw 5151 to
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  win silver. And those are your sporting
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  headlines this week, Nigel. Fantastic.
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  Thank you very much, Nilesh. And where are you tomorrow?
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  Gone your way to Wigan I guess. Posh, Posh Yeah, Back in the
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  Northwest after a a Yeah, a less than enjoyable trip to
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  Accrington Stanley on Tuesday night in the League Cup in which
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  Posh managed to lose 21 and then the home defeat against Luton
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  last week of two nil as well. So yeah, yeah, hopefully better,
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  better results and a better performance.
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  More importantly, tomorrow afternoon up in Wigan.
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  Sure, a very challenging start for Posh, but what what are your
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  views? Is that going to get better, do
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  you think? Oh yeah, they will.
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  You know, I'm seen as one of the more positive Posh fans and it's
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  only two games in looking to strengthen.
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  They've already signed Matthew Garbett this week from Dutch
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  side NAC Breeder Breeder and then they're looking to bring in
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  another 3 or 4 players and which will set us up for a tough week.
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  We're going to weigh tomorrow, Barnsley at home on Tuesday
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  night and then Bradford at home next Saturday as well.
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  So, you know, it never gets easier, you've just got to make
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  sure you perform better. Amazing, amazing.
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  Thank you very much for that. OK, we're going to hit up a
• 9:27
  break now and we're going to come back after that with Dan
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  England and Jamie Carter from Hunts FA.
• 9:36
  PCRFM now available on DAB. Got any bits and bobs of old
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• 10:19
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• 10:21
  Meme Park is perfect for leafy walks, sunny cycling, picnics
• 10:25
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  Go to Destination to eat, shop and play with big name retailers
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  like New Look, Fat Face, River Island, Primark, Flying Tiger
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  include Tap and Tandoor, Greg's, Millie's Cookies and Turtle Bay
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  and we've mini golf at Put and play by Hollywood Bowl.
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  Step into Queensgate to eat, shop and play.
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  right here on your doorstep. To arrange a tour and a cover,
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  search Waterhouse Manor, Peterborough, your local care
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  home. You're listening to PCR sports.
• 12:20
  Welcome back then and if you didn't get or if you don't get
• 12:23
  the chance to listen all the way through to the end tonight, we
• 12:26
  will podcast this show. You can listen again through the
• 12:29
  PCR FM website or just pop along to any of the PCR sports social
• 12:36
  media pages and we will also share it on there for you.
• 12:40
  Well worth a listen tonight it must because we're here with a
• 12:43
  couple of local referees here with Dan England who's Referee
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  Development Officer at the Hunts FA and Jamie Carter who's
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  development and mentoring team lead.
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  Did I get that right? I thought I was going to get
• 12:57
  that one wrong. Hi guys.
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  How are you doing? Yeah, good.
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  Thanks, Nigel. Thanks for having us.
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  Thank you ever so much. Good to be here.
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  Good to talk to you. Brilliant.
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  It's it's great to have you here.
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  Like I said earlier on, really looking forward to this one for
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  a while now. Bit of a hot topic of mine.
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  So let's let's talk about you guys and and your roles at Hunts
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  FAA little bit first. What what do you get up to
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  day-to-day done? Day-to-day is, is always busy
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  talking to referees, talking to clubs, always engaging with,
• 13:28
  with wireless stakeholders, but, but also as well recognising
• 13:31
  positive opportunities and, and performances from the weekend
• 13:34
  and also things that potentially might not necessarily go so
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  right or go well. And pretty much from our point
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  of view, it's about how can we offer education, learning so
• 13:43
  that things sadly, we can't always change.
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  How can they be be improved next time?
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  Fabulous, sounds like keep bidding.
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  I really like that sort of idea of discussing stuff and that and
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  and good to see that that happens down at at lower levels
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  as well as you know, in the in the promised land of the
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  premiership. So what What first inspired you
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  to become a referee then? Do you know what where I started
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  was my brother was very much involved in football from a
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  young age and one day I was going to watch with my parents
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  and the coach asked would I or step in and referee.
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  The game was was about 13 years of age at that time and probably
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  only six or seven. So playing very much mini
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  soccer, what we'd call now and took it on.
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  Decided to give it a crack and have a have a bit of a go and
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  started to get a bit of a bug for it.
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  And I thought, oh, I like this as you do every kid, you find
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  that you get paid and it becomes a bit of, a, a bit more of an
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  enjoyable opportunity thinking, OK, what, what new trainings can
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  I buy and what can I get this weekend that potentially my
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  parents won't know about? But it's very much an
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  opportunity that I, I took and I started to, to enjoy.
• 14:55
  And the more that I started to to be involved with within Tom's
• 14:58
  games was my parents put me on a referee's course.
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  I really enjoyed the experience, went through an opportunity
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  where I started to referee school games and started to
• 15:08
  develop from there. Really in nine years on
• 15:11
  refereeing since I started and I'm still going.
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  So it's good, really enjoyable. Fantastic.
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  And Jamie will bring you in there.
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  Tell us a little bit about your role.
• 15:21
  So my role is helping newly qualified referees get a good
• 15:24
  start basically. So once they've done the course,
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  they have to do 5 matches and they get observed by a mentor
• 15:31
  during those five matches to be signed off as competent.
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  So I make sure that we have a mentor assigned to them so that
• 15:37
  someone can go out and see them. But there's also a bit of talent
• 15:40
  spotting in there as well. So if you've got some young
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  referees showing some early promise, then I can let the
• 15:44
  other mentors know who do the different levels of of training
• 15:49
  that's available to them. So they can have someone on
• 15:53
  their radar basically for who they might bring through as they
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  progress. But then also the other way, if
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  people are still struggling a little bit, then I can offer
• 15:59
  them more mentoring, more support to give them the best
• 16:02
  start. It's all part of the retention
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  plan. A lot of referees drop off in
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  the first year or two. So how can I do the best to keep
• 16:11
  them in the refereeing so you know they don't drop off?
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  And is is there an element of assessments and support?
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  Why you what do you watch? Are the referees do you watch
• 16:20
  the games or is that all done after the game?
• 16:23
  So we are present and we watch the matches and it's a very
• 16:27
  light touch. It's not about assessing, it's
• 16:30
  mentoring, it's coaching, it's about development.
• 16:32
  So we'll find typically three things that they're doing well
• 16:36
  so they can keep doing those things, but three things that
• 16:39
  they could probably do a bit better and then they can work on
• 16:41
  those. Excellent.
• 16:42
  And you you're refereeing as well, of course.
• 16:46
  What? What made you want to pick up
• 16:48
  refereeing and blow the whistle? Two things, fitness.
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  So I was 21 stone when I started refereeing and knew to get the
• 16:57
  the weight down and that gave me a really good purpose to do
• 16:59
  that. But also my son started getting
• 17:01
  into football and I'd lost interest in football when I was
• 17:03
  a teenager and so when we sat down to watch Match of the Day,
• 17:08
  I couldn't name five players, I couldn't even tell you.
• 17:11
  He was manager for England at the time.
• 17:13
  So I thought, right, this is going to give me a really good
• 17:15
  reason to get back into football.
• 17:17
  So yeah, those two reasons. And I've absolutely been bitten
• 17:20
  by the bug and I love it. And I've lost nearly 4 stone now
• 17:24
  in a bit. Referee.
• 17:26
  Amazing. What I've done is it's great to
• 17:28
  see that the referee has been a part of that.
• 17:32
  So tomorrow then you're both out, tomorrow we're talking
• 17:36
  about your games. Are you allowed to say where we
• 17:38
  are, where you are tomorrow? Yeah, I'm reffing at Evsley
• 17:40
  United tomorrow in the National League S Step 2.
• 17:45
  They're playing Chippenham Town so it's an early morning start
• 17:48
  for me to get up to Chippenham and hopefully deliver a safe
• 17:52
  game tomorrow. And is that you regularly
• 17:55
  referee at that level, So there's lots of troubling for
• 17:57
  you. Yeah, yeah, sadly, anything less
• 18:00
  than an hour and a half is probably what I'd call myself
• 18:03
  lucky. Nothing, anything over that,
• 18:06
  which probably becomes the norm rather than something I'd go
• 18:10
  that sort of journey again. But do you know what it's, it's
• 18:13
  nice, it's enjoyable to be able to, to go through the country
• 18:16
  and, and experience different places, different settings,
• 18:19
  different clubs. Everyone's got their own
• 18:21
  individual culture, which you're always welcomed into, even as a
• 18:25
  match official. It's an exciting opportunity for
• 18:28
  us. And you come to some clubs where
• 18:29
  an atmosphere is, is electric. It's, it's, it really is
• 18:32
  inspiring. And sometimes as well that that
• 18:34
  helps you as a referee just to to go through that game a little
• 18:37
  bit more because you see the enjoyment on spectators faces
• 18:39
  and players faces, their enthusiasm for the game and such
• 18:43
  a competitive nature to go and win the game.
• 18:46
  That really, really does as a referee, it fills you with a lot
• 18:49
  of adrenaline. And that's important because
• 18:52
  you've got to match that. You've got to be able to when
• 18:54
  the game rises, you rise and the dream drops the end of the radar
• 18:59
  that that the attention beyond the football and what's being
• 19:01
  played, not on you. And it's always about having
• 19:04
  that, that balance where you can peak and through of the game.
• 19:06
  And that's a really important thing for referee.
• 19:08
  Sure. Yeah, and and the PCR Sports
• 19:11
  show have a partnership with Peterborough Sports and spotted
• 19:14
  you down at the Boston pre season game.
• 19:17
  Yes, I thought you had a great game, father.
• 19:19
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 19:20
  Thank you. Thank you, Jamie, where, where
• 19:24
  are you tomorrow? Simon stand ground, Stand
• 19:26
  ground. Cardia versus Thorny.
• 19:29
  I wasn't intending to referee this weekend, but yeah, plans
• 19:32
  change. Referees dropped off, so I
• 19:34
  volunteered myself to pick that one up.
• 19:36
  So kicking the season off there. That, that, that's really
• 19:40
  interesting. That brings a question to the
• 19:42
  front of my mind then about availability of, of referees.
• 19:47
  Now, what's that sort of like you, you know, you said you were
• 19:49
  initially spared this weekend, but you were, you were drafted
• 19:52
  in. What are numbers looking like?
• 19:56
  Growing, definitely. I think there's there's been a
• 19:59
  massive improvement in that sense.
• 20:02
  I wasn't refereeing before COVID, but anecdotally I heard
• 20:05
  that COVID was a big thing because a lot of referees didn't
• 20:08
  come back to refereeing post COVID.
• 20:10
  So I think there's been a lot of energy put into recruiting
• 20:13
  referees and retaining them, and I'm definitely one of those from
• 20:17
  that generation, if you like, of refereeing.
• 20:19
  I've only been doing it for four years.
• 20:21
  So yeah, I'd say there's definitely more availability
• 20:24
  coming up now. But yeah, we we can go on to do
• 20:28
  assistant referee on the UCL, for instance, at at my level.
• 20:32
  And we're quite fortunate here because you could also do
• 20:35
  refereeing across Cambridgeshire and Northamptonshire and still
• 20:38
  have a a foot in the the Peterborough league.
• 20:40
  So you know that there's lots of options and opportunities for
• 20:42
  you. Brilliant, amazing.
• 20:44
  We'll go into the first break then just with a little bit of
• 20:49
  your experience then what's the funniest moment you've had on
• 20:52
  the pitch? Can you think some of those
• 20:54
  really funny? There must be loads of stuff I.
• 20:57
  Can think of 1. So I was refereeing a an under
• 21:01
  eighteens match at Hampton Garden School and my son didn't
• 21:05
  have much going on. So you wanted to come down and
• 21:08
  watch just just for fun with, with my wife and there was a
• 21:11
  pretty bad tackle on the outside of the AC and yard box.
• 21:14
  And you know, you hear all the usual appeals, but I just had
• 21:16
  this little voice go Dad. I mean that does not laugh
• 21:22
  whilst sorting out the the wall. Amazing, amazing.
• 21:25
  I, I can totally, I can totally get that, that I can see, I hear
• 21:30
  that happening. So Dan, what about higher up
• 21:34
  the, the, the, the sort of spectrum of, of refereeing?
• 21:37
  I guess there's still some plenty of humour around in in
• 21:41
  that, sort of. Absolutely.
• 21:45
  We referee in a world now where footage is everywhere and you
• 21:47
  can't get away from it. And it was only it wasn't last
• 21:50
  season. It was a season before where I
• 21:52
  was at Tonbridge And and as football happens, the ball flies
• 21:56
  around in the air and sometimes you do get hit and, and
• 21:58
  sometimes you and it did it, it did hit me.
• 22:01
  And you look at your back and it becomes a bit of a TikTok trend
• 22:05
  and, and you're flying around and I wake up the next morning
• 22:09
  to missus effectively giving or showing me my phone.
• 22:14
  And I'm a, I'm a highlight and on TikTok turning around and
• 22:19
  getting back to the ball. So yeah, there's some enjoyable
• 22:23
  bits. But yeah, you do get highlighted
• 22:24
  when when something funny happens.
• 22:26
  Amazing. So we're going to take a break
• 22:28
  now. We're going to come back and
• 22:30
  talk a little bit about entry into the game and if anybody's
• 22:35
  listening and fancies being a referee and you know, how, how
• 22:37
  does that happen, especially in hunts?
• 22:41
  And we'll talk a little bit about accessibility and barriers
• 22:44
  to refereeing as well. But in the meantime, we'll just
• 22:46
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• 25:56
  Welcome back then to PCR sports show.
• 25:58
  We're here this week. We're Dan England and Jamie
• 26:01
  Carter from the Hunts FA and we've got some fascinating chat
• 26:05
  already and it's only going to get better.
• 26:07
  So for someone listening today then who's hearing what you've
• 26:10
  got to say, Dan and thanks. Yeah, I fancy having a go at
• 26:14
  that. What's how do they get involved
• 26:16
  in refereeing in Huntingdonshire?
• 26:19
  Firstly, just enrolling the course, you can do that by going
• 26:22
  onto our website and courses in development and you'll be able
• 26:26
  to see a list of our courses for, for this coming season.
• 26:29
  So what we have been able to do is we have released the full
• 26:31
  menu for this season. So all the way up to I believe
• 26:35
  it's March in 26 is now is all now available to to book spaces.
• 26:39
  They are popular and we obviously depend on popularity.
• 26:44
  We will put more courses on should it increase.
• 26:46
  But the menu for where we are at this moment in time is fully out
• 26:50
  there. And very much it's either go
• 26:52
  onto our website and encourage everyone to to go onto the
• 26:54
  Hunter Fay website and and book onto a course.
• 26:56
  But you could as well. If you're unsure how to navigate
• 26:58
  it, please just drop us an e-mail or or give the office a
• 27:02
  call and we can absolutely support you from getting through
• 27:04
  a course. Fabulous.
• 27:05
  And and is that pretty uniform across the UK?
• 27:07
  If anybody's listening from another FA, that's the sort of
• 27:11
  thing they all got courses that you can join.
• 27:13
  Yeah, every county FA has got got one and always say sometimes
• 27:17
  there might be other county FA that run them on a date that's
• 27:19
  specific for you. But obviously from our point of
• 27:22
  view, we we run it across the county and we're very much
• 27:25
  selective in terms of the, there's a number of areas that
• 27:27
  we try to target so that they're accessible to everyone across
• 27:30
  the county and and within a reasonable distance.
• 27:33
  And then we do get people that live outside those borders that
• 27:35
  come into our courses. And, and what are the sort of
• 27:39
  time scales on that? So walk us through the
• 27:42
  progression if somebody's having a go, just started refereeing
• 27:46
  but got one eye on that Premiership gig already.
• 27:50
  How how long does that take? What's the pathway I?
• 27:52
  I guess it depends on what the referee is willing to commit to,
• 27:56
  to refereeing and and very much it comes down to that element of
• 27:59
  commitment, not only just for yourself, but also what the
• 28:02
  games you do because you only get better by refereeing more
• 28:05
  games and the more we all refereeing.
• 28:08
  There was something that said to me a lot a while ago around
• 28:12
  there's a referee ever a finished article And, and
• 28:14
  actually it's, we're not, we are always learning, we're always
• 28:17
  developing. And even on the Premiership
• 28:21
  within the PGMO and SG-1 and those that referee on at the
• 28:25
  international stage, they, they'd always say that they're
• 28:27
  not the finished article. So getting through is, is very
• 28:30
  much around the commitment side. But we were to break it down.
• 28:33
  You'd, you'd start through the course, you'd, you'd pass that,
• 28:36
  you'd go for your five games, you'd get support throughout.
• 28:38
  And then there's a, what we call the progression pathway, that is
• 28:42
  where you can move through the, the ladder ladders within the
• 28:44
  county FA network, which you're getting is, is tailored
• 28:46
  training. We have a number of different
• 28:48
  programmes that we've released this season to, to be able to
• 28:50
  support with that. So there's more opportunity now
• 28:53
  for referee to, to get bespoke training, tailored training to
• 28:55
  their specific needs. But equally as well an
• 28:58
  opportunity for them to have their own coach engage, have
• 29:02
  honest conversations around things that potentially may not
• 29:04
  have gone right, may might have gone really well.
• 29:06
  And we've got to recognise the positive side of, of refereeing.
• 29:09
  I always want to know things that I've done wrong, but
• 29:11
  actually sometimes I, I don't reflect on the stuff that I've
• 29:13
  done really, really well. So it's important that we have
• 29:16
  the balance and that, that culture is so important to have
• 29:19
  that, that balance around the, the positive and things that
• 29:22
  potentially we could do differently.
• 29:23
  As you move forward, obviously then you get nominated in within
• 29:27
  a progression, so 5 to 4 where you can go into the national
• 29:30
  stage where you can referee on leagues such as United Counties
• 29:33
  League, another step 5-6 feeder leagues within sort of UCL being
• 29:37
  the one around this area which hold a lot of clubs.
• 29:40
  Then it very much becomes a a way where you can progress with
• 29:45
  the national FA. So you you go into Step 3 and 4,
• 29:47
  football, Step 2 and then obviously from Step 2 you move
• 29:50
  into the pigeon while which is obviously the professional game
• 29:52
  which services Premiership all the way down to the National
• 29:56
  League, National League Prem. So, so that works similar to to
• 30:01
  players really. Then you often, you often see
• 30:03
  young players ply their trade locally and then they're picked
• 30:07
  up at a young age from like a a bigger club.
• 30:10
  So that that's sort of the same progression then picked up by
• 30:12
  the national FAS if they're performing well locally.
• 30:15
  Absolutely. And, and whilst everything's
• 30:17
  also around, obviously you want, you want to perform well, you
• 30:20
  want to to promote the referees that are performing well,
• 30:23
  because obviously there's absolute benefits there.
• 30:25
  But equally is why it's around the the element of their own
• 30:27
  personal learning development. Are they willing to learn?
• 30:29
  Are they willing to progress? Are they willing to put in the
• 30:32
  work that they need to, to, to meet not necessary criteria, but
• 30:37
  that fundamental basic of what that next level requires.
• 30:39
  And sometimes it's very much around installing that level of
• 30:43
  confidence in them that they can do it for them to go and do it.
• 30:47
  And that's our biggest challenge as a county FA is about how we
• 30:50
  can install that confidence and grow that confidence in in our
• 30:53
  individual referee so that they go out to a game, feel ready,
• 30:57
  deliver a game to the best of their ability, understand that
• 31:00
  things happen and go wrong. But when it comes to the end of
• 31:04
  the game, we will reflect, then it will park it next game.
• 31:09
  And we take one game at a time. And that, that's really
• 31:11
  important. I think sometimes from a referee
• 31:13
  perspective and sometimes outside of the, the refereeing
• 31:15
  community and it looks at, oh, referee's just appointed.
• 31:20
  Sometimes it's the preparation that goes on behind the scenes
• 31:22
  doesn't always get sort of noted.
• 31:24
  And, and I think it's important, especially while we're here,
• 31:27
  Nigel, to, to give you that perspective, be transparent.
• 31:29
  It's an important part for us within our, with our team and
• 31:32
  the referee's department at Hunts FA to, to have that
• 31:34
  transparency. We do a lot of work with clubs.
• 31:36
  James does an immense and an absolute fantastic job of
• 31:39
  working with local clubs within, within the county FA to educate
• 31:41
  around assisting referees, how we can service the referee
• 31:45
  better on a match day. Supporting around laws of the
• 31:49
  game changes. I do a lot, we have a lot of
• 31:52
  conversations in the office around laws of the game changes
• 31:54
  and, and things that happen. And it's always, it always gets
• 31:57
  directed in my in my direction in a, in a team meeting.
• 32:01
  And sometimes you, you weigh up, you want to give the football
• 32:04
  answer or the law answer. So it's always an interesting
• 32:08
  topic, but. And I, I guess there's lots of
• 32:10
  chat around the, the games on in the Prem on a Monday morning,
• 32:14
  isn't there about. Yeah, sometimes around
• 32:16
  decisions. Do you know what sometimes my my
• 32:20
  colleagues like like looking at the is it if things flash score
• 32:23
  so that they tag my games to see what's happened in my games and
• 32:27
  very and very and very quickly do I get a message after the
• 32:30
  game. What was this for?
• 32:32
  How many pens did you have? That's great.
• 32:34
  They know that they've already got it.
• 32:36
  Yeah, They already know what's happened in the game before I've
• 32:38
  had a chance to explain it, to be honest.
• 32:40
  So they just want to know. They just want to know the nitty
• 32:43
  gritty really and what happened. So, so getting back to to
• 32:46
  started in the pathway, what, what the sort of age limits here
• 32:50
  is, is there a sort of youngest person that that can log onto
• 32:53
  these courses? Yeah.
• 32:54
  So the minimum age is 14 to start refereeing, but it's 14
• 32:58
  plus. So there, there is no time to to
• 33:02
  start a referee and you can start at any age that as soon as
• 33:05
  you turn 14. We have parents that come on
• 33:08
  courses to support their their children.
• 33:11
  Some people that come on our course are very much from a,
• 33:16
  from a senior background and, and just want to give back to
• 33:18
  the game because they've coached it.
• 33:19
  They've decided actually, you know what, there's a, we've not
• 33:22
  had many referees this. So I'm going to take the course
• 33:25
  of the actually, if a referee doesn't turn up, I can, I can
• 33:27
  referee that step in a referee that game.
• 33:28
  We don't have to put that responsibility on a parent and
• 33:31
  these are the characters that we really want to encourage more to
• 33:33
  come forward because there's always a perception that
• 33:36
  refereeing is a is a difficult world, but it's not it.
• 33:42
  There was a community in the culture now and there's a
• 33:44
  camaraderie to what we do, especially with an Hunter Faye
• 33:47
  to support referees and and recognise that there is barriers
• 33:51
  and there are challenges that we face in in refereeing and there
• 33:54
  are going to be the highs and lows.
• 33:56
  But what's really important for us is how do we come together?
• 33:59
  How do we support one another? Every success, we celebrate,
• 34:03
  every low moment we get together, we find the solution
• 34:07
  and we go again. And, and that's what we want to
• 34:09
  make sure that that everyone's aware of.
• 34:12
  It's not just parents shouting at you want to sound like a
• 34:16
  sideline. It's not spectators.
• 34:18
  There's a fine line between emotional passion and personal.
• 34:21
  Very, very few moments do we see things become personal and it's
• 34:25
  about how do we then make that an environment that's more
• 34:30
  enjoyable to service the game better.
• 34:32
  Amazing. We'll bring you in there Jamie,
• 34:34
  because this might be the mentoring part of your role, but
• 34:37
  I have a grandson who's 8 years old and I watch him play most
• 34:42
  Saturday mornings and I'm in awe of some of the young referees
• 34:46
  that you got referee in those sorts of matches.
• 34:48
  They do an amazing job. So if there is someone listening
• 34:52
  and wants to start and wants to join on those courses, a little
• 34:55
  bit worried about the support that they're going to get, what
• 34:59
  support do those youngsters get? Well, they get tons of support
• 35:02
  definitely like Dan said, that people come through on the
• 35:05
  course and they come into groups and we encourage them to get to
• 35:08
  know each other. You know, they can form WhatsApp
• 35:11
  groups and so on. So they can support each other
• 35:13
  even as, as adults, you know, I mean, a couple of chat groups
• 35:17
  and you know, good or bad, we share what's gone on and we
• 35:20
  support each other. It does require some resilience.
• 35:22
  I think a lot of the times you really wanted, everyone wants to
• 35:26
  deliver a good game, right? No, no referee I know turns a
• 35:29
  bit of a match and thinks how can I do a dreadful job of this,
• 35:32
  right? So you all need to sort of pick
• 35:35
  each other up sometimes because everyone makes mistakes, you
• 35:37
  know, we're only human. And so for for youngsters
• 35:40
  specifically, they've got the mentors.
• 35:42
  We always make sure that we can communicate with them through
• 35:45
  the appropriate channels, you know, make sure safeguarding is
• 35:47
  observed obviously. So there's lots of ways that we
• 35:50
  can reach out if there's a problem.
• 35:52
  If someone was to, you know, say I don't want to do this anymore,
• 35:55
  it's dreadful. It gives us the opportunity to
• 35:57
  have a conversation with them, with a parent present or carer
• 36:00
  and you know, really get down to the bottom of what the problem
• 36:04
  is. And sometimes it's just because
• 36:06
  they've made a bad decision. A parent said something or a
• 36:08
  manager said something and it's completely thrown their
• 36:10
  confidence and it's about helping them to see any kind of
• 36:15
  mistake or something like that that they've done.
• 36:18
  That's not gone to plan. Turn it into a positive by
• 36:21
  saying, right, what can you learn from this?
• 36:23
  And it might be that they've knee jerked on a, on a whistle
• 36:27
  rather than stopped and thought about what they've seen or what
• 36:30
  the appeals got to them or something like that.
• 36:32
  And we just help them to unpack what's happened and turn it from
• 36:35
  a negative that's potentially stopping them from refereeing
• 36:38
  again to coming back stronger and better next weekend.
• 36:41
  Yeah, and, and, and what's really like, I say, I mean awe
• 36:44
  of a lot of those younger referees.
• 36:46
  And what I see week in week out is that there's young lads out
• 36:50
  there and young girls out there who want to be referees.
• 36:53
  They they're not refereeing because they're not good at
• 36:56
  football. They're not refereeing because
• 36:57
  they can't play. They're not refereeing because
• 36:58
  they can't get in a side. They're refereeing because they
• 37:00
  want to be referees. And that's that's amazing to
• 37:02
  see. And that must, that must flow
• 37:05
  through to a lot of young people that you see.
• 37:07
  Oh yeah, absolutely. There's definitely a handful of
• 37:10
  of newly qualified referees that I've seen recently.
• 37:13
  It's their aspiration to to make it to the Premier League.
• 37:15
  It's a career choice. And it makes a nice change from,
• 37:18
  you know, people wanted to be an influencer or something like
• 37:21
  that. You know, they've got their eyes
• 37:24
  on that prize. And like Dan said, you get out
• 37:26
  what you put in. And so if you attend the
• 37:29
  coaching sessions that we deliver, if you put yourself in
• 37:33
  a group, in a forum with other referees so that you have that
• 37:36
  resilience and that support around you and you, you know,
• 37:39
  watch matches with a view of how can I learn from this more
• 37:43
  senior, more experienced referee, then it all pays off.
• 37:47
  It all adds up. And there's absolutely no reason
• 37:50
  why we can't have a Hunter Fay referee in the Premier League in
• 37:55
  the next 5-10 fifteen years. Absolutely.
• 37:57
  We've got to say, we've got to say in Nigel, in ours is no one
• 38:01
  when it's like taking a driving test.
• 38:03
  No one's born a referee, got to learn, no one's born a driver.
• 38:08
  You've got to go through that process.
• 38:09
  And that's what we want to try to encourage everyone to to
• 38:11
  realise is everyone that you see on the TV has started where you
• 38:17
  will start. We've all been there, we've all
• 38:20
  started. And then we've all travelled on
• 38:21
  that journey and we've all experienced highs and lows.
• 38:25
  I've had them far more lows. But you go, you go through
• 38:31
  obviously, yeah. But you go through situations
• 38:34
  where you you get yourself in the position where, right.
• 38:38
  How do I get over this? And it's about that support
• 38:41
  around you that is going to get you through that and help you
• 38:42
  get further. Brilliant.
• 38:44
  OK, I'd love to go on all night for this, but fortunately we've
• 38:48
  got to take another break. But we're going to come back and
• 38:50
  we're going to touch on on that behaviour and and respect
• 38:53
  element again. And we're also going to talk
• 38:56
  about a little bit about female referees.
• 38:58
  We talked about the emphasis. Haven't asked you the question
• 39:02
  about the the oldest referee. I was going to do that.
• 39:04
  Who's the oldest referee in in hunts?
• 39:09
  I've caught them there. Good question.
• 39:10
  I'll let you, we'll go. We'll go to the break and you
• 39:12
  can think about that and then we'll come back.
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  You're listening to PCR Sports. OK, welcome back to the PCR
• 42:20
  Sports Show. We have got Facebook pages, we
• 42:24
  have got social media pages. Just search us up PCR Sports
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  Show on all the major platforms and you'll see us there.
• 42:31
  We're trying to desperately to put a load of content out that
• 42:34
  you will enjoy through the week rather than just catching up
• 42:37
  with us on a Friday evening. OK, we went to the break when I
• 42:40
  asked a very unfair question on the lads about the oldest
• 42:44
  referee, but we just spent the ad break talking about some
• 42:46
  characters in referee and haven't we?
• 42:49
  Yeah, I know we have but but I think it's important obviously
• 42:52
  to to mention one of one of our referee that sadly did pass away
• 42:55
  earlier this year, David Stapleton, who serviced Hunts FA
• 42:59
  for for more than 50 years. And we were we were fortunate we
• 43:03
  were able to to rightly present him with his fifty year award
• 43:06
  earlier in in February, our referee recognition awards for
• 43:10
  season 2425. But sad to to obviously to hear
• 43:15
  about the news of Dave. But you could as well in a good
• 43:18
  place now. Fabulous.
• 43:19
  Thank you for that. And OK, I want to touch a little
• 43:22
  bit about girls and ladies refereeing.
• 43:26
  We've all seen the Lionesses on TV, we've seen the boom in the
• 43:31
  playing side of the women's game.
• 43:33
  Has that been replicated in in refereeing?
• 43:36
  Absolutely. We're, we're seeing an, an
• 43:38
  influx of referees that could that come from a female
• 43:41
  background now. And, and there's always been
• 43:43
  the, it's been male dominated and stuff like that.
• 43:46
  But there's such an important element to having a female
• 43:49
  referee because female football is becoming such a positive
• 43:52
  influence for, for the nation. And it's, it's growing, it's,
• 43:57
  it's becoming more leagues, more clubs.
• 43:59
  We see it on every year from a county FA point of view, there's
• 44:02
  more, more girls teams, which means more fixtures, which means
• 44:05
  we need more referees and, and it's right to have a female
• 44:08
  referee referee more game because you get that personal
• 44:10
  touch, especially when it is from a, from a male, from the
• 44:14
  open age males point of view game.
• 44:15
  Having a male referee, you understand that element of back
• 44:19
  and forth. And sometimes that's really,
• 44:20
  really important to to recognize that female referees are equally
• 44:24
  as important as males. And, and are there any unique
• 44:27
  challenges that they face? Are they, are they accepted in
• 44:30
  the game? Like, like, like, you know, you
• 44:32
  talk, you talk to a lot of people about the, the women's
• 44:35
  game and some people love it, some people hate it, but there's
• 44:40
  a respect for it, you know, across the board, I think.
• 44:43
  Is that replicated in refereeing as well?
• 44:45
  Absolutely, yeah. There's always challenges.
• 44:47
  We, we accept that and there are always mixed opinions.
• 44:52
  We respect those. But what's, what's important is
• 44:54
  recognising that there is nothing that stops someone that
• 44:57
  is male, female from any background that wants to
• 45:00
  referee. There is an opportunity and a
• 45:02
  way forward for them to, to come into the game there.
• 45:04
  There's nothing stopping them. Refereeing football is for all.
• 45:07
  And that that's a really important message to to get out
• 45:10
  there because we want to make sure that everyone has an
• 45:12
  opportunity and, and we as a county FA have a number of
• 45:15
  different ways that we can give that opportunity, provide the
• 45:20
  opportunity for them. And that's through courses, if
• 45:22
  that's post course around the different networks, we've got an
• 45:25
  opportunity from programs. So I think what we're doing at
• 45:27
  the moment is very much around we want to help referees have an
• 45:31
  opportunity, have their own, help them shape their own
• 45:34
  career. And sometimes they just need
• 45:35
  that little bit of support. Yeah, sure.
• 45:37
  And and we need to touch on this.
• 45:39
  We can't let the L go past that. Touching on a little bit about
• 45:42
  behaviour and and respect of referees.
• 45:48
  How's that working out? I'm I'm seeing from looking on
• 45:51
  from the outside that the bad behaviour now of fans, parents,
• 45:56
  players towards referees is, is not the norm anymore.
• 46:00
  Yeah, we do come across and experience an acceptable
• 46:04
  behaviour and and that is being punished severely now by by the
• 46:07
  disciplinary process and it's becoming something that is
• 46:10
  reducing. But equally we are seeing more
• 46:12
  things being reported, which does mean that it is increasing.
• 46:15
  So it's important to remember the more we increase, the more
• 46:18
  we're going to hear about it and the more the reporting process,
• 46:22
  naturally the numbers are going to go up.
• 46:24
  We encourage everyone to report poor behaviour because there
• 46:26
  isn't a place for that in the game, especially around
• 46:28
  discrimination or any other situation that's simply
• 46:30
  unacceptable. But what we are seeing is that
• 46:34
  especially from a youth point of view is all I want to encourage,
• 46:39
  especially the listeners tonight to think about it.
• 46:42
  Just remember under 18 referees and children, we've got a scheme
• 46:45
  purple shirt which we rolled out, is it two or three years
• 46:49
  ago now? And that has seen a massive
• 46:51
  reduction in youth cases because they're clearly identifiable.
• 46:54
  We've got to remember their children in the eyes of the law
• 46:58
  and we've got to remember that equally as well.
• 47:00
  They are also going for a stage of learning, might be still at
• 47:03
  school, early stages into work, apprenticeship from 16 years of
• 47:08
  age. And we've got to remember
• 47:09
  everyone still learns. And the one thing I want
• 47:11
  obviously to to like be touched back on previously around no
• 47:15
  one's born a referee. Same with the driving we all got
• 47:19
  to, we've always got to go through that process.
• 47:21
  We've always got to go through that process and we are going to
• 47:23
  make mistakes. Sometimes there's going to be an
• 47:25
  element of and potentially might not understand as much as you
• 47:29
  would as an adult, but it's about that teaching process,
• 47:31
  about that learning process. Are they aware of it?
• 47:34
  Can they make it better next time?
• 47:35
  Can't change the past or we can make make the future better.
• 47:39
  Right. We're very close to the end of
• 47:41
  the hour now, but I'm going to, I'm probably going to get you in
• 47:44
  a little bit of trouble here. So just go back to that home,
• 47:48
  recite a referee. And again, it's there must be
• 47:50
  some rule or law. That's what they call, isn't it?
• 47:54
  Laws of the game, not rules that you really find bizarre and you,
• 47:58
  you really find it difficult to enforce all the time.
• 48:02
  I told you I was going to get you in trouble.
• 48:04
  Yeah. There's constant changes that
• 48:06
  that always pose situations for referees where it becomes
• 48:10
  difficult. Obviously we've got this year
• 48:11
  the 8 second rule which is which is very unnatural for us as
• 48:15
  referees now having to, to obviously count the goalkeeper.
• 48:19
  So whilst it it, it does feel different, it feels very
• 48:23
  unnatural. We're going to have to get used
• 48:26
  to it. Having my arm up, counting down
• 48:29
  on fingers does feel different, does feel strange that that's
• 48:35
  where we are now and and we're very much in a position where
• 48:37
  I've just got to remember the countdown from 5I.
• 48:41
  I was watching, I think you'll get some help there as the
• 48:43
  season goes on because I was at Chester watching Peter A Sports
• 48:46
  last week and the crowd were actually counted.
• 48:49
  Yeah. Maybe they can do it for me.
• 48:53
  I know that I can get down from 5 to 1, so that's that's always
• 48:56
  an important bit. Amazing, thanks so much guys for
• 48:59
  sharing that, I realised I was being unfair there but OK very
• 49:03
  nearly finished now just time for you to plug any socials or
• 49:07
  any website you've got for the for the hunts FA.
• 49:10
  Yeah, so you can find us just type in www.huntsfa.com.
• 49:15
  All of our courses for referees can be found on there.
• 49:18
  We've also got social media platforms.
• 49:19
  You can find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram.
• 49:22
  We do post a load of stuff, especially around the referee
• 49:24
  network and also as well positive stuff appointments come
• 49:29
  out. We also do have a WhatsApp
• 49:30
  community, so if you want to be involved in that, please
• 49:33
  obviously get in touch with the office through info@hunterfa.com
• 49:37
  and we can absolutely get you involved in that to keep you up
• 49:40
  to date with what's going on in and around the County FA.
• 49:44
  Brilliant. Thanks, guys.
• 49:45
  Thanks so much. Really enjoyed that tonight.
• 49:47
  I think we're going to have to have you back on soon because,
• 49:50
  yeah, I've got another hour's worth of questions.
• 49:52
  I think that we can that we can chat through.
• 49:54
  But thank you so much. Brilliant show tonight.
• 49:57
  Next week, everyone, we have the City of Peterborough Tennis Club
• 50:01
  into the PCR sports show. So we're going to be talking a
• 50:04
  little bit of tennis next week. Really looking forward to that
• 50:08
  one. Please check in on our Facebook
• 50:09
  plays. Please listen again.
• 50:11
  If you just want to hear Dan and Jamie's views on refereeing and
• 50:16
  Hunts FA, please listen again through the PCR FM website or
• 50:21
  through our social media pages. And that's brilliant.
• 50:24
  Thank you so much. Really enjoyed tonight.
• 50:26
  We'll see you next week.