Latest / Honey Badger Radio / ItsComplicatedChannel is back! Talking the manosphere, relationships, etc | Fireside Chat 274

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ItsComplicatedChannel is back! Talking the manosphere, relationships, etc | Fireside Chat 274 · Honey Badger Radio

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: All right, good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: may be, and welcome to Honeybadger Radio. My name is
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Brian and this is the Fireside Chat and I'm joined
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: by John from It's Complicated. Welcome to the show, John,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Really appreciate you taking the time to come out.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hi, Brian, Thanks for having me back on.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, really really cool stuff. So I thought,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: you know, we should like reconnect because it had been
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: a little while since we spoke, and I noticed that,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: you know, you recently on your channel, of which I watched,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I think it was on yours, you did like a
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: bit of a roundtable discussion with like Paul Elam of
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: a Voice for Men or formerly of a Voice for
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Men and Shah And I thought that was really cool
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: because you know this, we we come across guys that
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: or people that are sort of like adjacent to the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: men's issue space, but they don't really stick with it
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: because there isn't a lot of at least there doesn't
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: appear to be a lot to gain, so they can
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: sort of move on. But you're you're still you know,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: plugging away. And I thought that was really cool. So
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: that was what got me thinking, Oh, I should get.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: This guy back on. Thank you. I appreciate that. And
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: one thing I wanted to do is, uh, we also
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: had Matt Cross, who is a dating coach slash pickup artist.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: So for a long time I've said, you know, there's
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: so many different voices in the men's space. You know,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: there's MRAs, there's you knows, make towne Away, maketow, all
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: these different things, and I'm like, why don't they ever
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: get together and have a debate or discussion amongst each other,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: because you know, they might agree on the descriptions, but
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: they have different prescriptions, and so I would like them
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: to kind of stress test each other's ideas of kind
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: of where we're headed, where we should be heading, what
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: is you know, what is positive and what's you know
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: holding us back. So that's where my head's been at.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so yeah, and I suggest people that you're
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: watching you should check out his channel. It's called It's
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Complicated channel on YouTube. And because that the videos up there,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: it's like a forty five minute video I believe, or.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Is that just the one where from two hours excuse me, sorry.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like two hours. Yeah, you're right right, I'm
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: looking at the wrong thing.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: What did it like?
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, so without you know, making this all about just that,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: what did you get out of that conversation yourself?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Did you walk away with some different ideas or did
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: your positions on things change at all?
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two there's two different pieces of content that
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I did on that trip. The first piece of content
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: was just a sit down forty five minute discussion or
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: not even discussion. It was just a Q and A
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: with Paul Elam, which was really exciting to meet one
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: of my personal heroes. He was a tremendous influence and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: why I got into the space and you know, got
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: interested in men's rights, and he was just a delightful
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: man to meet and to work with. As far as
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the discussion goes, that's a separate piece of content where
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: it was the four of us, and I think it
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: was interesting. I think that if I had to judge
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: my own performance, I think I kind of was a
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: little bit scatterbrained during that only because we spent so
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: much time to set up a five camera shoot and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: because we wanted to have, you know, a wide shot,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: and then we wanted to have each person have their
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: own angle and make sure that everyone was properly miked,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: and so you know, to put on a performance after
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: you just worried about every possible anticipated glitch that can
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: go wrong technically, and then you know, as soon as
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: you start filming, then all of a sudden, you notice, Oh,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: they're doing construction outside, and you know, how are we
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: going to So there's always oh, I remember.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: When last time we talked, They're always doing construction down there.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Right. Were you in Vegas when this happened. This wasn't
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: in Vegas, this was in California. But you know, lo
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: and behold, there's always going to be something. Yeah, I
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: mean the hardest the hardest part is just trying to
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: get clean footage and then but I think for the
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: most part, you know, we covered a wider range of topics.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: We talked about everything from like, you know, I wanted
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: to challenge some of the PUA stuff, so I asked
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I kind of started off like I feel like, in
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: a way, I kind of led the conversation with a
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: lot of my questions. But in some ways I almost
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: feel like maybe I was almost introducing some non secutors
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: because sometimes it's better to just let the conversation flow.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And it was like you know who was really leading
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: the Was it Shah who was leading? It was that
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I who was leading it? Was it going to be
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: about dat coaching? Was it going to be about men's rights?
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, I think we covered a wider
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: range of stuff, but you know, I just we talked
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: about something called dread game. And dread game is this
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: concept where you can maintain a woman's attraction if you
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: make her feel anxiety about losing you. So you constantly
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: have to be in this constant performance mode. And I'm
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: thinking to myself, like, that's it just seems like very machiavellian,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Like it's just coming from a place of dominance. And
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: and do I want to build a relationship that's built
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: on that type of performance? It just seems like it's
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: it's not gonna be built on trust. It's going to
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: be built on manipulation. I don't know.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: But you got to live in inframe all the time, right,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: That's that's not it's exhausting to have to do that well.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Right. And and one thing that Matt was saying is,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: you know, as as pick up or pew way, you
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: know you're not supposed to be performing. It's got to
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: just come naturally to you, and I'm like, okay, well,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: then my question is if if women just want men
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: to be themselves and not put on this performance, why
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: is you know, why is game a skill men need
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: to learn? Why does he you know, why why is
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: that something you have to learn? It just seems like
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: it would just come naturally, I guess.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, Well, based on my experience because I
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: watched that, I thought that you were mainly directing. It
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: was like you were steering the conversation so that you know,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: there were there's plenty for people to respond to, especially
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: like with Paul and Shah. I think that they were
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: very engaged, which is why they kind of stand out
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: for me, you know, in terms of so I would
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: say that you were you did a decent job, which
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: is like it's your strength, like your channel, And I'm
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: not just here to gas you up. I'm just saying
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: your channel is all about asking, you know, people questions.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: So that's that's the one thing that I think is
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: your strength.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: You know. Thanks, I'm still getting used to kind of
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: like the podcast game. I mean, I've been a faithless
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: channel for many years now, and so just to try
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: to you know, it's like I want to steer the conversation,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: but I also need to kind of let things just
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: flow organically. So it's kind of a little mix between
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: two of those.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I hear that, all right. I just wanted
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: to give a shout out quickly to the audience. I
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: want you guys to please smash that like button while
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: we're live. It really helps us reach people. And also
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: if you want to send us a message, because the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: thing is we get suppressed by YouTube, you know, like crazy,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: So if you want to send us a message at
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: all during the show, go to feed the Batchel dot
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: com forard slash just the tip. I'll read all of
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: the chats at the half hour mark, any super chats
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that I get or super chows or rumble rants, and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: then I'll do it again at the end of the show.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: So we'll only go for about an hour, just so
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you know. And yeah, so anyway, let's get back to this. So, yeah,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a really great discussion. So, like,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: right before the show started, you sent me something I
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: guess we can go through it. Is that, like, because
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I think this is kind of related to what I
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: was thinking.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: About talking about.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this there is a lot
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: of different people with different agendas. Some of them are noble,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: some of them may just be selfish or they just
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: see or they're opportunistic. What do you think about this
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: this new manisphere that is being talked about in the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: in the sort of mainstream, you know, like Louis Threau's documentary.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Did you see that by any chance? Yes? And I
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: actually watched most of your stream uh with Alison where
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: you were reacting to uh, like someone reacting to the
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: the uh the Lewis Throw documentary. But obviously they took
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: you know, the loudest some of the loudest, most outspoken
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: voices and just kind of like painted that as like
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: the whole manisphere, when the manisphere is just a very
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: you know, very large place with a lot of different voices.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: But I do think that there is an overwhelming majority
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: of people kind of like it's like almost like this
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: consensus bubble of people just it's echo chamber of people
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: pushing a lot of the you know muscles, money, game frame,
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: self improvement, that's kind of their ant are for everything.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And you know, I wanted to create a distinction between
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: what a lot of people refer to as you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: red Pill one point zero and red Pill two point zero.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Red Pill one point zero is kind of like what
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: got me into the space, which is like, you know,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Cassie Jay's documentary about men's rights and male disposability with
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Paul Elam as the main character. And then now the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: red Pill is you know Rollo and Andrew Tait, who
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: you know is always the poster child for some reason,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: even though he's disavowed Red Pill, which is weird. And
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: you know Myron Gaines and Sneak oh, and you know
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the characters who were prominently featured in Lewis Throw's documentary.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: So you know, it's interesting how Lewis throw will will
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: take those people and say that's the Manisphere. But you know,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: why isn't he talking to you guys? Why isn't he
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: talking to me? Why is he talking to the Paul
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Elams and the Karen Strawn's and you know what I
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: mean a lot of those people who've been around for
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: probably longer and done a lot more activism than just
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: you know, entertainment and rage content.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think he chose to feature those
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: guys in his Manisphere documentary as opposed to like actually
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: talking to people who have been doing it for a
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: long time that are a little less well known.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I personally think it's an easy target. It's a very
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: quick way to dismiss men's I mean, this is potential.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not assuming it's the case. It could
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: also just be that, you know, that's what's permeated the mainstream,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: because obviously these guys are very popular, And just because
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: these guys are popular doesn't necessarily mean they're right. In fact,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I think that a lot of their rhetoric often undermines
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: men's legitimate issues because it paints all men's advocates as
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: regressive and we're trying to put women back in the kitchen,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and we're trying to repeal the Nineteenth Amendment. And you know,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: that's why I wrote this article that I sent to you,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: that I posted on Twitter about how I believe how
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: I believe. You know, I commit with a with a
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: list of bullet points about why I believe the manisphere
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, not not all of the Manisphere,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: but a lot of the manisphere. Redpill ideology, whatever you
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: want to call it, praxeology is or or the culture
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: that's surrounding the Manisphere is promoting a lot of ideas
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: that I think are kind of undermining the cause.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, so you like, like the the manisphere, so like, okay.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: For for clarification, Louis Thereaux does state in his documentary
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: although it's like a throwaway line because it's very it's short,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: and he says it one time right at the beginning,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and then he never comes back around to it again.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: But I think that that's by design. So I'm a
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Less charitable than you are.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I think the purpose of the documentary is to basically
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: make it to where no one wants to actually like
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: even explore the manisphere, because when you think about how,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: how did like contrast Luis the Rose documentary versus Cassie
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Jay's documentary. So in Cassie Jay's documentary, she came across
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: a voice for men and specifically Paul Elam's bash of
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: violent Bitch Month article, which was basically a gender reversal
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: of a Jezebel article that was essentially making the same
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: argument and the same way that the Grievance Studies professor's
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: off if you heard about these people, there were three
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: people James Lindsay Kate, I think her name was Katie
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: or Cat It doesn't really matter. But there were these
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: three professors that were trying to show the absurdity of
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: like college studies, and they were doing these twisted versions,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and one of them was they took mind Komff, which
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: is Adolf Hitler's book about Jews, and replaced the word
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Jew with man and then just submitted it and it
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: got accepted and printed in a paper because it was
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: about it was anti mail, and they were just showing like,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: this is how easy it is to sort of like
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: x the system of academic research and you know, for
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: what it is. So in the same way, Paul was
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: doing that with this article, and Cassie Jay went into
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that intending to make a hit piece, but then she
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: realized she became curious and started asking questions and that
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: was like how her documentary changed. But Luis Thereau didn't
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: appear to have any intention of doing that, even though
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: he openly admitted in a line he said, most of
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the manisphere are moderate podcasters and comedians, but I'm going
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: to look at the extremes, right, and then he never
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: he never makes that distinction for the rest of the documentary.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Everything else. Now, these guys in this movie are the Manisphere,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: And so I think the purpose of it is too
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: for normies that see it on Netflix, because that's where
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: it's airing, right, They're supposed to see it and say, well,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want to know anything about those guys. I'm
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: not going to look into that stuff anymore. And I
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: think the purpose of it is to associate men's issues
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: with it. In fact, I just got an article earlier
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: today that is pushed up, was put up by The Guardian,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: not Surprising, and it was entitled feminists began raising alarms
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: about the Manisphere decades ago and we were ignored by
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Laurie Penny. So she was basically saying, we told you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: these guys are bad news now back then, like a
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: lot of these guys that are in this documentary, those
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: guys came out of nowhere, maybe in the last five years.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Like when I was doing this ten years ago, fifteen
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: years ago. None of those guys that were featured, not
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: even Andrew Tate, I never heard of them.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: They really came out of nowhere. And I'm not.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Gonna speculate as to it being suspicious or anything, but
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I do think that the people who make the most
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: noise that are the most controversial, that are the most
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: over the top, They're the ones that are gonna, like
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: get the most clout, right, They're gonna get the most impact,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: You're gonna get the most eyes on them. Whereas I
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily Paul could have been much bigger, but he's
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: choosing to be authentic first, right, And I think that's so.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: I think that's why there's this difference. And I do
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: think that Throw did this on purpose, So I don't
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: know what you think about that.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: But yeah, well, I mean I think that Cassie j
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: definitely humanized the movement and empathized with it, whereas I mean,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I mean that's thing Louie could have gone a little
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: bit deeper and said, Okay, these are the lot oft voices,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: but now let's explore some of the other voices and
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: let's listen to what they're saying and do a comparison.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And that's kind of almost like what I was intending
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: to do by creating that panel discussion, where I'm saying, Okay,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: here are what different voices are saying, and let's because
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: it's always the same paradigm, it's always you know, the
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: dating coaches or the the you know, red pillars versus
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: the only fans girls, you know, just just exposing the
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: dumb girls. And it's like, why, why are these guys
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: representing the whole movement just because they're popular, And it's like,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: how how outrageous could I possibly go? Because it's all
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: about just getting views and clicks, And I personally look
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: at myself as like kind of teetering the line because
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have to be a little bit
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I have to do. I have to make myself entertaining
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: and fun to watch. But at the end of the day,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: like like I almost call my channel like a men's
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: rights channel disguised as a dating channel, because that way
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about Oh, we talked about relationships,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and that's something that everybody cares about. And then all
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, I sneak a little bit of hey,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: wait a second, look at all these double standards and
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: could this possibly be systemic or are we always going
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: to say these are individual problems? You know?
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure, I think that is exactly what
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: you're doing, and I think it's very effective. But it
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: goes back to like, you know, we were just saying,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: like the uh whatever podcast, those guys do well because
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: because it is about dating, it is about sex, it's
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: about these sort of like sort of shallow, salacious things
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: that everyone is drawn to. I'm not gonna say it's
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Maury Povich, but it's sort of like in that vein
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: in terms of like the complexity, right, the sophistication. But
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I have noticed, to his credit, I will say that
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Brian Atlis has He's the guy who hosts the whatever podcast. Sure,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: he has been trying to get more and more involved
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: in men's issues. He even claimed to be a men's
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: rights activist, even though I don't think he knows enough
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: about it. But I guess I'm, you know, hopeful that
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: this causes him to take an interest and Pearl. I
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: don't know if you talked to Pearl, right, you've talked
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to her before?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Yes? Real? OKOK. I just want to say one thing
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: about Brian Atlis's I'll believe that more when he is
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: willing to maybe do some interviews outside of his podcast,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: because you know, I did appear on his show, and
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: when I was on his show, I asked him can
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I interview you? And he just said, I don't think
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: there's time for that or whatever. It is, But you know,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, if he would be willing to maybe appear
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: on other people's stuff and talk about why he got
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: into the space, maybe I'd have a little bit more
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: consideration for him as a men's advocate. For him, he
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: just kind of seems like just a clip farmer and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: he's just looking for rage content. Yeah.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think that he's also like he's probably
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: not feeling very secure about like doing a one on
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: one because he's afraid of that he doesn't know that much.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: I remember him debating Warren Smith a while ago, who's
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: like this guy who just does logic, you know, on
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: his show, and Warren sti Smith stumped him on conscription
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and he didn't know like how to make the argument,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: you know, around conscription as a concept because it is
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: something that only men have to deal with, and he
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't prepared for that conversation. So I think it's because
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: he is feeling like if he goes on camera and
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: he puts his foot in his mouth, it's going to
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: destroy his channel.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: That's the other thing too. I'm pretty sure that's the
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: reason why he brought Andrew Wilson on. But you know him,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: and I wonder Chel yeah, yeah, and him and I
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: were in discussions at one point where he actually wanted
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: to have me like kind of like zoom into his
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: show and maybe like ask some of my questions or
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you know, react to some of my content. And then
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: it's just it's weird because a lot of these guys
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: just kind of like they they work with me and
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: then they ghost me or they're just they don't acknowledge
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: that I even exist. And I'm like, dude, I have
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: so many pieces of content that you can react to.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: You know, if we're part of a community, then why
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: are we not working together? But it seems like there's
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: just a lot of gatekeeping and it's all about clout chasing.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, dude, like, who are the real advocates here?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Are you just trying to? You know? And and I
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: have one other issue is that I think that his
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: channel is very, very heavily weighted towards trad cons. And
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: it's pretty obvious because the Daily Wire, who is some
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: of the most notorious for or pushing trad con you know,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: pushing marriage and all that other stuff. They they love
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: reacting to his clips and his channel. They never react
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: to anyone else's content. They only react to his so
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: they might have some type of arrangement behind the scenes. Maybe.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's because that channel is those channels are big,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and so they like it's like the like the because
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: it is ultimately about like the clout and stuff, like
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the big channels feed off the big channels, you know,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and and they help each other out. Michael Knowles has
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: appeared on Whatever a couple of times too, so there
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: is probably a little bit of like working together. I
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: think that they were even considering adding whatever to the
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to the Daily Wires like as a company. I think
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that Brian might have gotten an offer, but I don't
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: know if he took it. Well, you also go into
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: a contract with those people.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Well, not only have Michael Knowles, but I mean Charlie
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Kirk Rest in Peace. He was on the Shoes on there,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: he was on there. You had Candice Owen's on the show,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I mean Officer Tatum. I mean it's trad con after
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: trad after trad con, and if you're a men's rights activist,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: then I want to see you put some pressure on
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: these trad cons and not just the feminists, because the
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: trad cons are a big part of men's issues that
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: are not being addressed. Yeah, I agree.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: So anyway, let's let's uh so, Yeah, it was just
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: so they were they're they're starting to like use this
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: this documentary to sort of discredit the Menisphere. The idea
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: is that nobody wants to.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Like talk about it anymore.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I've noticed that your channel is really big now, I
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: mean by our standards, you're at like what four hundred
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: thousand thubs on YouTube.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but for some for some reason, I don't know,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: like you're hitting a wall. There's I'm hitting a wall.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I hit a plateau. I mean, my channel was booming,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: and I don't know if that's happening with a lot
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: of creators in the space. Everybody says that, like the
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: algorithm changed. So I don't really know what the story is.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: But I've always asked myself, how was I getting four
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: times as many views when I had one quarter of
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the subscribers. Yeah, I don't know. This is something.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: I've seen this happening in the space with a few people.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Some of it's been going on for a while. I
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: mean we've never really been able to get past like
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: where we are now on this channel. On our old channel,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: we were at about eighty thousand maybe at one point,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and then we got hit with something like it was
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: years ago, and we just stopped posting there because every
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: time we post, subscribers would just disappear. So we've been
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: doing it all here now, but it's much slower growing.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I don't really know. But the thing that's odd to
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: me is, you know, everybody talks about well, everyone's afraid
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: of getting silenced or suppressed. And I'm thinking to myself,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: but most of the loudest voices are saying rhetoric that
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: is way beyond things that smaller channel is like you
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: or maybe even myself would say, yeah, well, you know.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: That's the thing though, I think that it's because those
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: big channels that are really like offensive or edgy, they
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: are probably good for the algorithm. Again in terms of
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: discrediting us, like what Andrew takets. You know, he gets
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to be on everything. He's on the lips of every
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Briton British person, like they make whole documentaries about him,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: like and I think it's not because he's working with anybody.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's because people like that are very useful
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: if they want to push out a narrative. Because I
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: think Ultimately, the narrative that's being pushed out by the
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: media is not even that men's rights should be ignored.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: It's that men themselves, masculinity itself is a problem and
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: they just need examples of that so that we can
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: keep on suppressing men, you know, keeping them out of
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the lives of their children or whatever else. And so
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: they have to attack masculinity on the whole. So and
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I think that Andrew Tate is very useful for that.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: He you know, drives fancy cars, smoke cigars, wear shades,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: and they're just like, yeah, that's what we want to avoid.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And he's he's just like a symbol. If he died tomorrow,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: they would just replace him with somebody else that acted
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: the same way, you know.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: So what's your take on this, though, because when they
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: talk about an attack on masculinity, I'll just ask, you know,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: an mra men do Do men deserve their rights whether
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: they're masculine or not.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: No, I think that when we talk about attacks on masculinity,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I think that when I talk about it, I'm not
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: saying that there is a like a specific type of masculinity.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I think that And we talked about this on our
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: show before. Masculinity is essentially just men's like desire or
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: their desire to be as they are without control from
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the outside, without interference. So it doesn't mean you lift
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: weights and you like, you know that those are caricatures.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: That's not real. Like real masculinity is whatever whatever you
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: are as a man, you you define that yourself. But
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: they and when they attack it, they attack the caricature, right,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: And if you're not that man, which most men are
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: not that man, then you might say, oh, well that's okay,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: because I don't really like that stuff anyway, But they're
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: really you're actually the target, like you like, whether it's
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: again just you on your own, like when you said,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I want to make a channel where I'm going to
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: talk about these issues that no one else wants to
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: talk about. That is a masculine act. You're building something
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: with the purpose of trying to like, you know, make
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: some kind of change. You're you're you're you're imposing your
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: will on the world in some way, and and they
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: want to take that away, like you know, like they
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: they don't want you to be able to do that,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: so they attack a you know, a straw man of that.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And then and then they but they really want to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: come after you for whatever you are. And I've had
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I've talked with Paul, he lives here in
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the area, and we've had conversations about this, and I
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: think that it's it's worth understanding that when I say
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: attacking masculinity, I'm talking about men's ways, men's ways of being,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and it is like, it is a unique it's not
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: like women. You know, men's way of seeing the world
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and operating in the world is not like women. And
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: it's not because of some like, you know, cartoonish version
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of masculinity.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: So you're talking about men's autonomy.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, autonomy, yes exactly.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: But or like but we hear, we hear all these
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: we hear all these voices in the space saying you're
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: not a real man, or you know, you're being you know,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: feminine energy or things like that. And masculinity is often
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: used as a as a slave caller to kind of
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: keep you in line and say this is what a
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: this is what a man does. I mean, I've interviewed
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: women on the strip who said, you know, this is
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: what a man. A man is supposed to be a man,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: don't be a woman, you know, pay for her nails,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: pay for her hair, pay for her makeup and things,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So it's almost because I
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: know I watched the videos. Yeah, yeah, I like women.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: They they will make those arguments because that's really the
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: only way that can get men to do things for
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: them is to attack their masculinity. But they don't understand
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: masculinity either. That's why they go after those cartoonist versions.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Like when you say, when you say, people will in
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the space will say, that's not what a real man does.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: The fact that you can reject that, that's the masculine part.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Like I sometimes say that the manliest thing you can
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: do is say no, Like that's all it is. Like
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: it really is like, no, I'm not doing what you
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: ask because you want it. I'm not going to act
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: the way you want me to be just because it
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: makes you uncomfortable. I'm just gonna do what I'm gonna do, right,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And I think that that that's all it is. Like
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: men are generally more disagreeable.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: They they are.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Generally like you know, more, they're more interested in their
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: in their autonomy, in their freedom, and they are they're
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: more likely to respect other other men's competency. They respect
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: that those are masculine things. Am I saying women can't
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: do that? No, But I think that men generally are
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: they value those kinds of things more, you know.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: But I think that not only applies when women do it, it
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: also applies when a lot of other men do it.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Is well, because there's a lot of trad cons who
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: will say, well, a man is supposed to man up
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: and do that, and it's or or even some red
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: pillars say that you know, this is yah supposed to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: and and you're basically locking men. I frame it in
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: a way like this, I say, masculinity is the first
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: thing attacked when they want to control men, and conversely,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: it's the first thing promoted when they want to control men.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, and you're and you're you're absolutely right about that.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I was just gonna say the manisphere. The manisphere that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I guess gets featured like the Justin Wallers and the
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Andrew Tates and the fression fits. They are they're just
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: bluepill guys. Like I know they're in the manisphere, but
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: like when when you were not And I again I
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: talked to Paul about this too. When you measure your
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: worth as a man based on the amount of approval
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: you get from women, You are not thinking for yourself.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: You are still a slave to that because you're saying, oh,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: look at me, I have all these women on my own.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: That makes me a man. No, it doesn't, actually, because
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: you're still a slave to your passions. You're still a
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: slave to to like women's desire. You're still trying to
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: like figure out what women want. That's why the you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: the whole like thing about frame. You know, with these
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: like these uh red these p way guys say oh
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: you got to act this.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Way to get a woman.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: That that's wrapping your life around somebody else. That's not masculine.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: In my team, it's.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Not at all. It'socentric.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: It is, and I think ginocentrism is inherently feminine. M
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's like, that's why women are all about it.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: They're totally for that. Even if they they claim that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: they you know, they may claim, for example, that they
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: want to undo gender roles, and but they don't really
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: want to. They they just want they they want men
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: to stay trad and then they want to just live
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: however they want.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is is you've got feminists, trad
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: cons and red pillars, all wanting to keep men in
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: their gender roles. And to me, the only true liberation
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: that's not men, I mean men's liberation on a systemic
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: level is men's rights on an individual level is migtele
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: And they're not promoting migtow because there's no money to
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: be made for migtaw. They don't they don't benefit when
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: men walk away. And if self improvement was just for
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: yourself and not for attracting women, wouldn't they be shaming
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the migtws.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they can't because they can't though, because even
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: if they and they do try a lot of articles
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: that get written, for example, about Migtao, they still consider
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: them to be misogynistic even though they're literally not avoiding
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: women or at least like not committing to them.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: That's it. That doesn't mean they hate them. There was
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: a point where Jordan Peterson shamed migtow is, calling them
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: pathetic weasels, and then recanted on that.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the Miketel gave them a lot of shit
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: for it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it because back it says the Mike Talles
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: actually have a point.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Yes exactly, And and yeah, I think that that's right.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: So I want to look at this list that you
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: made because we were just starting to talk about it
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: and we're at the halfway point. So guys, if you
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: want to send us a message, do so now and
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: I'll get to it. Yes, Feed the Badgers, guys, Yeah,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Feed the Badger's thank you, Feed the Badger dot com
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: ford slash just the tip. And also our monthly fundraiser
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: is up, you know. So I also want to tell
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: you did you did you happen to hear from either
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Pearl or one of her people about a documentary they're
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: working on. Do you know about this?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean I saw that the trailer for her documentary.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: She's been working on that for a while now, but yeah,
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: it's it's called What's in It for Men? And it's
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: about just divorce, men's fear of divorce, what happens to
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: men after a divorce happens. Yeah, So she's basically, you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: talking to men on the back end and hearing their stories,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: and I mean, I think she's doing some great work.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure you know, there's some criticisms of Pearl,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: just like everybody else, but for the most part, I
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: give Pearl a lot of respect for talking to Paul
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Elam and for Sha too. She's spoken to Shah absolutely.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously she had that debate with Anna Kasparian
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: that a lot of people said she choked on that debate.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I thought that the stuff that she read, you know,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: like her opening and her final speeches were really well done.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: They were a little bit rushed. But at the same
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: time though, also it's like, okay, if you're going to
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: be debating Anna Casparian about child support and divorce and
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: all these things. I mean, I don't know, maybe she
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: wasn't the best person for the job. Maybe maybe you
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: get a James Sexton, or you get somebody who, uh,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: you know, the lead attorney ors. I don't know. I
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: mean just just certain people, maybe even Paul Elam, I
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: don't know. But but sometimes there are certain people who
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: are more qualified to talk about certain issues than other people.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't always have to be the most popular person.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: It could be the most educated person.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that I watched that debate and it
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: was a little frustrating because I know Pearl is right,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: and the problem is is that uh Ana Kasparian's strongest
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: counter arguments were source and so like if you don't
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: have because the thing is data is not always reliable.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: So if you don't have data, because you know, like
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: we collect data through feminist institutions, so it's already biased.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: If you don't have data, then you got to use
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: logic instead. Like that's like the next that's like the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: thing you fall back on. And I don't think Pearl
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: was ready for that, but it doesn't really matter because
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I think at the end of the day, you know,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: she's she's trying to convince some people who are on
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the fence, and I think if they listen to those
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: opening statements and those closing statements and there were a
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: couple of little zingers in there, I think they would
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: have walked away going you know what. I think Anaksparians
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: obviously just defending the status quo, which is what she doing,
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: and pearls the one that's actually asking people to look
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: at something different.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So I'll look back on some of my own interviews
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: and say, oh, I should have said this. Why didn't
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I think of that? So everybody's always critical of their
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: performance of of no matter how much you.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, I was sure, yeah, all right anyway, So yeah,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: so speaking of that, that documentary. Uh yeah, I got
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: a call from Terrence Pop. I guess we're all the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Badgers are gonna be We're invited to join it.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I know I'm gonna go to this.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be like formal interviews in like a setting,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I think in New Jersey. So you know, maybe I
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: don't know if you're gonna get an invitation too, I
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: did recently, but like it'd be cool to meet up,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: you know, if if you happen to be there and
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: we can like do something.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Hey, like the Avengers or something. And yeah, exactly the
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: first one, not the second one already The League of
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Justice I think it's called or something or the Justice League,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Justice League.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, anyway, so you on your thing, you
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: who said how is the Manisphere holding men back? That
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: was kind of like you were putting together a bullet point.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: List, right, this is my criticisms?
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the inspiration for this came from Louis Thererou's
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: documentary or was it more.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Like, these are a lot of things that I've been
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: thinking about for a long time. Just I think that
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: there are just certain issues that are being pushed by
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: some of the loudest voices and I think that the
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Lewis Threau thing kind of focused on a lot of
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: the grifting and a lot of the characters involved. I'm saying,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: regardless of who's saying it, I just see a lot
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: of these talking points and these ideas coming from all
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: the different voices in the space, and I'm saying, well,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: why are we not just auditing our own movement and
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: just kind of like stress testing a lot of the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: prescriptions because there's no pushback. It's just kind of like, well,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: this is what we got to do, and you know,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: this is female nature and nothing can change and it
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: is what it is. I mean, that's that's one of
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: their favorite things to say all the time, is these
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: guys are always saying it is what it is. Mm hmmmmm. Well,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: let me ask you this.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of grifting, and definitely the guys
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: that were featured could tell you could tell that they
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: were mostly in it for the money. But then the
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: question becomes and it's something that Louis throw probably could
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: have asked, why is there a grift in the first place, Like,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: why is there something for these guys to exploit? Why
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: does that exist? Where does it come from?
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I asked Paul that question, and Paul
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: basically gave me a great answer. He said, not to
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: put all the you know, the heat on them. These
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: guys are selling what men want to buy. Men basically
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: want in a way, you could say they're selling them
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: the alpha male fantasy or something like that. But obviously
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: men want to feel like if I'm the strongest, most
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: successful masculine provider, the women are all gonna chase me
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: or they're all gonna, you know, fall into my arms
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: and everything. And so I don't know, I mean, if
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: they've had several years to push this rhetoric, and I mean,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: are things really improving for men? I mean, if we're
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: told that, you know, you've got to be in the
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: top ten percent of men, then what you know what
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, do we want to live in a society
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: like I ask? I asked a question that kind of
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: sums up this point. We talked about hoflation, right, the
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: idea that women's expectations have just become delusional and men
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: have to work five times harder for women twenty times worse.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And so I say, okay, if the price of gas
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: skyrocketed to twenty five dollars per gallon, would you tell
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: consumers to work harder and become high value consumers or
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: would you instead protest the system that allows monopolies to
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: thrive at the expense of the consumer. And that's kind
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: of what I see is happening from I mean, it's
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: not just the manosphere. I mean even you know Scott Galloway,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: who's not right wing, he's left wing, and you know
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: his message. I mean he's saying, oh, men are struggling,
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: but you know, women want economically viable men who are
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: protectors and providers. And I'm thinking, how is that any
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: different than Andrew Tate's message. I mean, they not it's.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Nothing to offer men. He wants them.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: I saw that. And and uh.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: He knows all of the problems, he's he lists them
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: all off, but in terms of solutions he doesn't. He
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: just says, well, we just they just have to be
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: more economically viable. They just need to work harder. And
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and I think that ultimately, the only reason why Scott
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Galloway is even like in the public eye right now
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: is because they brought him out. I believe that he
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: is only there because he's the last hope of sort
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: of like trying to deradicalize men like so he's basically
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: like a countermeasure to the Andrew Tates. He's like the
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: he's like the soft lefty version, but he doesn't he's
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: also offering nothing. And I would argue Andrew Take doesn't
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: offer anything either, because, like, you know, what these red
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: pill guys are promising, or at least selling, is something
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: that the overwhelming majority of men can't get, but they're
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: like led to believe that they could, like they make
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: them think that they can't. And Scott Galloway doesn't even
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: do that. So, like, I agree, I don't think any
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: of them are helped because they don't have a prescription
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: outside of get good, Bro, and that's just not gonna
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: work so well.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: And and the other thing is I mean, if I
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: had to be charitable, yes, I mean, you know, you know,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: self improvement might be beneficial for short term options, maximizing
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: short term options, but what's the long term solution. I mean,
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: if you look at the family court system, it's it's
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: only a matter of time before there's a false accusation
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: or an unplanned pregnancy or something that's basically you know,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: shout out to to Shah. He has a video on
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: this channel called The Matador where he talks about this
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: analogy of you're almost like like a man in this
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: bullfighting ring and it's only a matter of time before
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: you get gored and the horns are going to get you,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: and so there has to be there has to be
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: an exit ramp where you can say, Okay, you know what,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: like I can't just spend plates my whole life and
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: just live this life of hedonism, Like where where is
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: the long term solution here where I can have some
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: some stability. So that's another thing I wanted to address
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: in this bullet point list that that I sent to you.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, why don't we go through the list really quick?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: So I feel like I'm gonna get caught up in it,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: So you tell me what you what, what's on your mind.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Well what I what I really like you to do
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: is just kind of like kind of just go through it,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: tell me what your thoughts are, because Okay, I tried
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: to write it so that it's pretty self explanatory, but yeah,
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you're going to interpret it.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: So okay, all right, So yeah, you gave me this
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: list and you're basically thinking about how the anisphere and
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: I guess by the manisphere we're talking about, like the
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: people who tend to be, like, you know, the center
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: of attention. How are they holding men back? Like, let
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: me count the ways, all right? First, it recycles trad conscripts,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: men lead, men provide, men perform while claiming to be
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: anti system. That's not rebellion, it's rebranding old expectations. Yes,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I agree, and and again again I think that, Well,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: it's so you were talking about earlier about like how
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: self improvement is good in the short term. I think
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: that the thing about that is it can be good
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: for its own sake, but not because you're gonna hopefully
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get a woman out of it. Like I
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: think that one of the things that I think is
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: good about MiG Tao, for example, is that a man
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: learns if he doesn't know this, he may learn how
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: to live with himself without without a woman, right, he
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: can potentially learn how to exist as his own man.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Because most boys, especially these days, that are growing up
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: without a father in the home and they're sort of
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: like surrounded by feminine influences, they are looking for new
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: ways to please women because they learned it from their mother.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Or from their teachers, or from women that were in
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: their lives, whoever they grew up with, and so as
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: they become adults that need And I remember a prominent
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: mik Tao guy used to call it this. He called
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: it the male mother need, where you know, they're like
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: looking for way. That's why a lot of these quote
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: unquote red pillar guys they have like problems at home.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that from the Louis Throa documentary,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: but the one guy, Justin Waller, had a very abusive
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: mother and he would like you know she was she would.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Abuse his dad.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: And then there was another guy, hs Tiki Tuki did
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: not know his father was raised by a single mom.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: And now they're valuing their their identity based on women's
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: approval because it's always been that way. So I think
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: one of the benefit fits that migtaw offers or just
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: self improvement is that it's good for you on your own,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: not not because it's gonna attract somebody else, but when
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: you work on yourself for yourself, right, I think that's
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: that's a form of autonomy too. Do you do you
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Yes? And and a lot of times, the way manisphere
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: influencers will will frame it. They'll say women are the
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: byproduct of your success. You self improve and then women
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: will come. But then, you know, I say things like
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: with the expression, uh, women don't care about a man's struggles.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: They want to show up at the finish line and
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: pick the winners. That's one of the popular maxims. And
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I respond to that and I say, well, if women
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: don't want you until you're at the finish line, are
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: those women even worth having? No, they're not.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: That's a good That's a good way to put it too.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Because again, and another thing too is if a man
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: does because I do think that it's it's a good
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: thing to work on yourself in general, no matter what
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: whether you're a male or female. Of course, if a
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: man does work on himself, then he will hopefully be
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: more like, let's say, more capable of measuring his own
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: self worth so he does not end up with women
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: that don't deserve him, you know what I mean, Like,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: because ultimately men are the gatekeepers to commitment, so they
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: they should be able to be able to say like,
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: whereas maybe before that they might have just been like
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: the kind of guy that would be desperate for any
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: approval from a woman, like, oh, the waitress was nice
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: to me. I think she likes me, you know, when
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: she's just trying to get a tip. I think that
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: that is a good way of rewiring your brain as
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: a man, so you're not like constantly measuring your own
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: worth based on women's approval.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: If that's also also, men are so unbelievably controlled by shame,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: and a big thing for men, which is first what
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I would consider self improvement is stop letting others control
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: you through shame, and you know, find your own waste
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: and your own autonomy and nourish that.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so I agree that it's not anti system,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: it's just trying to make men. I think what it
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: what Ultimately, the it's a sales pitch that these red
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: pill guys do, These manusphere guys, they're selling men freedom.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: They call it that by saying you're gonna break out
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: of the matrix. But ultimately it's more of the same.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe with tools that the men could use to like,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: you know, get some kind of short term gains, but
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: ultimately their mind frame, their framing, their mindset is still
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: very blue pilled. And I think the I think the
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: manuspeer guys are mostly blue pill guys.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I agree, and so does call us too.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's all if that's what you're cause. Again,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: if that's if that's your modus operandi, like you're operating
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: under the oh, I'm gonna find a way to like
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: hack the system and get women. Well, guess what, you're
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: still trying to get women, So you know, like maybe
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that shouldn't be like at the front of your mind
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: all the time.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: They're trying to optimize within the matrix.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly, they're trying to min max within the game.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Uh. It locks men into rigid.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Gender roles while pretending those roles are natural rather than
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: socially enforced expectations. Well, I guess it depends on the role.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, I think there are definitely things men
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: can do that women cannot do.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: The other way too, Like I don't think fatherhood is
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: a gender role. But I do think that a lot
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: of the romantic chivalry stuff is vake. It's very vake
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: in fact, and a lot of it gets pushed by Hollywood.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: I think that it's cultural and and so like women,
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: they're easily influenced by this stuff like they see it.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: This is why they're always following like celebrity gossip, you know,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: like they're they're really interested in living the way high
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: status women live. They want all the things they see
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: on TV in the movies. And I think that men,
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: this is another problem with men listening to what they
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: think women want. Men try to respond to that by
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: giving that to women. But I don't think that that's
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: what they should.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Be doing, so telling them the fantasy, yes.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I think that women just need to be disappointed.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: This traps men in a permanent performance mode, always optimizing, grinding, improving,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: without ever defining what enough looks like.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Again, yes, I agree.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I think that it's best that men have their own
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: goals and don't worry about because like, again what, yeah,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: what does enough look like? And can you get there
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: with the way that women today so like what they're
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: looking for, which is a constantly moving target and it's
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: always moving upwards.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: On top of that, well, I mean, look at look
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: at what women would accept in the past. I mean,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: you know, what was what was acceptable, you know a
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: few decades ago. Now we've come to assess the average
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: man is unacceptable and he must change and improve. And
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: that's that's literally defined in the term hopefulation. Yep.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns self improvement into an endless hamster wheel
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: and identity not a phase, ensuring men stay dependent on
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the very content that claims to elevate them. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I mean this is this is all for me. It's
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: pretty self evident that that's true. Which is again, and
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of the shame that these men
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: are getting is actually from the mana sphere itself. Like
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: you notice how like competitive those guys are. And when
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I say competitive, I mean in a kind of feminine
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: way with other men, with like well you ain't got
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: your you know what was it.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: In the documentary.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I liked using the documentary as a reference because it's
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: sort of like a very like it's a great microcosm
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: where Justin Waller pulls up next to meet up with
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: the Row, gets out of his Lamborghini and he points
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: at it and says that's not success, like that's not enough,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: like this is nothing. This is like my my sidecards,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Like why do you need to flex on this guy?
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm talking about, Like.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Well it was it was a humble brag is what
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: it is, you know, Yeah, it.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Was exactly, but it was still like a kind of passive, aggressive,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: competitive thing that was unnecessary. Like I think that that's
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: not masculine in my opinion, Like it's not because like
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: if you if you're confident in who you are, you
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: don't need to tell everybody else about it.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: You don't need to make a display. Why why are
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: you flexing? Right?
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, why are you flexing?
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: And you know, and again it's I think that some
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: of the most I think the most some of the
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: most masculine people I know are very humble, like because
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: it's not really about that, you.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: Know, just like just like some of the smartest people
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: will say, I don't know a lot, yes exactly, exactly.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I don't think it's I don't think that's.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: By the way, that idea of like looking for approval
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: from the community that's on the list towards the bottom.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: So we're getting okay, yeah, yeah, so that well, that's true.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: It promotes the fetus or dismissive narratives women are children,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: women are delusional that feel edgy but don't lead to
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: better outcomes.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: So is this.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: What you mean by this is are you saying that
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: these manosphere guys will say things like well, you just
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: need to like be better at controlling them or dominating
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: them or framing them.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Is that? Is that what you mean?
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Like women are you just don't understand how they work?
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying? Well, it kind of ties
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: into like the following point where it's like, we can't
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: hold women accountable because it's just their nature.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but also repeal the nineteen and put them
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: back in the kitchen.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, if we say women are delusional, women are crazy,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: then we can never hold women accountable because we've already
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: just said this is just way, it is, what it is,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: and just accept it.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So and you have that's a
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: great point. You said, it undermines its own credibility with
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: extreme rhetoric examples. Repeal the nineteenth back into the kitchen
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: by handling, handing critics easy ammunition to dismiss all men's
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: issues as regressive. Yes, which I think again, well, look,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: I know it's gonna sound mean, but I don't think
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of these manisphere guys that get featured are
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: like people have thought a lot about these things. They
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: may just have like one a genetic jackpot, you know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and they think that they're doing it on their own,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: but they're really just sort of lucky and so like
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: they don't really think about these things much. Because I'm
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: with you. I think that women are adults, and I
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: think that it's better that we treat them like adults
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: instead of children. I think I'd rather be on the
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: hold of them accountable side than the it is what
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: it is side?
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Does that make We're and fantalizing the women at the
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: same time were complaining about them not being accountable, and
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, you know, if you want a soft
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: feminine woman who doesn't work, then you're basically just like
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: why you complain about her not bringing anything to the table.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, speaking of like the manisphere, like
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: the shaming thing, it just remembered something that happened to me.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: So I had this guest on a while ago. I
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever remember this guy. His name
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: was Jack Murphy, and he was kind of a manisphere
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: guy that sold like a school. He was like part
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: of this like I don't know it was. It was
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: kind of a manisphere. He was a Manisphere guy. Basically
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: he was on Tim Poole and stuff, and I remember
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: I managed to get him on because I wanted to
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: talk to him about you know, I noticed that he
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: was basically like kind of a you know, a pro
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: male person, and I was wondering if he knew about
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: men's issues and stuff. And I had him on the
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: show and the conversation was okay. I can't really remember
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: much of it, but remember afterwards, and this goes back
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: to what I was talking about, this competition thing. After
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: it was over, I said, well, I'd like to get
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: him on again sometime, you know, maybe we'll get into
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: some of the nitty gritty stuff to see where he
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: stands on some of the deeper issues. And he he
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: didn't talk to me directly. He talked to somebody else
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and had them saying that I that he doesn't want
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: to appear on my show anymore because I'm fat, and
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, Like he didn't like basically was
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: bad for his image, It was bad for his brand
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: right right now. Like he didn't want to like basically
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: share airtime with me. And I think that's another thing
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: that that you that that is an issue with like
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: operating in the space because it's an online space and
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: there are people who are looking for any means to
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: like grow their brand, and so that means that for them,
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: the optics are very important, and so they won't there'll
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: be just people they able to avoid associations with for
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: whatever reason.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: I I I gotta I gotta associate with with only
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: top tier men. Yeah, yeah, and I have that he
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: was exactly the top years since, and I have to
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: sayround myself with the OnlyFans models, you know what I mean,
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: or just which is kind of weird too because it's like,
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: you know, you wonder if these guys are all about
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: like finding virtuous traditional women, why are they living in Miami? Right?
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: No, Well, but again I think that there's definitely we
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: have to like draw a line between the people who
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: are like in here for very legitimate concerns and people
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: who are seeing an opportunity. And that the truth is
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: is if the legitimate concerns become addressed, the opportunistics, uh,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: they're they're gonna lose that because it's gonna be a
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: smaller and smaller, Like it's gonna shrink their customer base,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there has to be a clear distinction between the
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: legitimate men's advocates and the entertainment.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, yes, uh yeah, So anyway, they didn't
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: age well for for Jack Murphy anyway, So yeah I'm
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: a little fat, but I'm still here and he's not.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: But anyway, so.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: You're doing you're doing masculine things.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's right, I think. So it confuses content
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: with action. What you were just saying, Well, it looks
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: like activism is often just monetize monetized outrage and entertainment. Yes,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: and they even admitted as much on there. It prioritizes
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: short term wins like sex, status and validation over long
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: term stability, purpose and rights.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that's like what I'm in it for is
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I want to see at least like for the people,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the men and women. So I include like men's issues
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: will solve a lot of women's issues as well, like
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: it'll be a side effect of it.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Sure, And I want.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: What I want to see is that men and women
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: who are looking that want to you know, get married
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: and start a family, like maybe they have like a
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: certain like goals in that regard, because there's like the
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: stuff you can do that's for yourself, which no one
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: should be able to stop you from doing that. But
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: then there's the stuff that you need somebody else to do.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: I want those people to be able to do that,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: but sure, the problem is is that there are legal, administrative, political,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: and social and cultural obstacles, and that those are the
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: things that that will be harder to fight for because
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I think they've been around longer than I've been alive.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: But they will be more sustainable over time, you know.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Can I can I ask you why haven't we seen
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: a large increase in non legal marriage?
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: In non legal marriage, Well, I think that because it's
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: not legal.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think that there's a way to track it.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: But I have noticed there are there are more religious
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: marriages happening that but don't involve the government. But the
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: problem is is that the government insists on being involved
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: with marriage, so it's.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Hard to do that without it.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: But I think that that should be Like in that opinion,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: I think that we should be pushing for marriage to
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: be completely separate from the state.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I mean, I mean, don't we
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: have isn't that a violation of the separation of church
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: and state? Just the fact that the government is involved
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: in marriage.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: And to begin with, well, no, because the way that
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: the way that the government does it is it's like
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: a it's like a sort of separate but equal contract.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: So like for example, and I think this is like
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: kind of an outlier, but my wife is Canadian and
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: so we got married and so but because she was
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: a she's not from America, we had to do it
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: through the courts because it was a legal thing because
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: she wasn't it was to get her green card. But
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: we did want to get married, right, So like, but
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: if we didn't have to do that, like I would
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: just get married through a church and not have any
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: paperwork at all. And I think that that's what But yeah,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: I mean I could see where the conflict is. But
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: when you there are certain things that I think, you know,
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: the government has to kind of have a hand in,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: like immigration. But on the other hand, there are also
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: government things that are a big problem because there are
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: people who don't want to get married religiously, but they
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: want to get married, you know, Like what's gay marriage?
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: For example, like a marriage in the States civil union, right.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they call it a civil union, but there we
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: have gay marriage in the States that's not generally done
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: through churches for obvious reasons. But the the gays get married,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: so that's done through the state. That's basically like state marriage, right,
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: So what I would I think that what there should
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: be is maybe two distinct things. Like there's marriage through
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: the state, maybe you call it a civil union, and
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: then there's marriage like which is done you know, as
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: a as a holy sacrament, which is like how it
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: should be seen. And I think those should be separate things.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: But again, where we're looking at like pretty big picture
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: issues here. I got a super chow, so I want
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: to read it. This is from Oh my gosh, how
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: do I even read that? That's so long winded? No
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: longer bothering badger badgers with this scrape except the badger's
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: sim sim brother bothering with this crap. Okay, ten dollars
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: from all of that that was their name, thank you,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: no longer. Question for guests. Do you think that some
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Manisphere men might choose stay at home father plus female
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: breadwinner situations, even if it's hard to find, even if
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: the relationships might be less stable, to protect their child
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: custody and steal the alimony. Like how some men choose
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: the migtile lifestyle for their own protection. It may sound
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: totally out of left field, but I think it's possible
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: to separate out men who want that arrangement into red pill,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Like how Stefan Molinu is a stay at home dad,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: but he's red pill and bluepill male feminists who do
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: it if we were, if we are using the same
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: definition of red pill, and even if a manisphere person
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: would never pretend it's what a majority of women want
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: like feminists do.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: So what I got what I got from that is basically, uh,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: what what I call the manisphere should be promoting the
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: it's kind of a joke, but be promoting the gold
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: digger strategy where men men men should be looking for
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: rich pharmacists and rich nurses because then you know, if
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: things don't work out, then you can divorce her and
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: take half. But ideally, I don't think they would be
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: promoting that in the manisphere because it would be seen
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: immediately as beta. It's not masculine.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Exactly, it would be a it would be because the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: thing is is that the manisphere guys are just trying
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: really hard to be trad. They're going like hard trad,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: which is.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: They're pushing, they're pushing all these trad trad con talking points,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: and but they're yeah, they.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Think that it's but they think it's red pill because
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: they're being like, I guess more edgy about women. So like,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think Michael Knowles would say the stuff that
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: these guys say, for example, But ultimately they're landing on
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: and they're also like saying, well, I have an open relationship, right,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I get to go see other women, and you can
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: too if you just get my you know, pay me
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: ninety nine dollars a year for my course or whatever.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: But ultimately, yeah, it's blue pilled. And again, I don't
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: even think those guys are as sexually successful as they
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: sell them out to be, because it's it's their brand.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: They're trying to sell something. So there was a schism
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: or a beef between the trad cons and the red pillars,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: where the trad cons were basically complaining that the red
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: pillars were contributing to the degeneracy. So there is a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: distinction to be made there, but I still think that
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: there's so much overlap. I mean, much of the red
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: pill is just promoting trad talking points and trade bou Yeah, and.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: Also the red pill, and then the trad cons and
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: the red pill are also getting into an argument about
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: ultimately which which of their prescriptions is better for women.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: So it's really like the you know what I mean,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Like the red pill guys be like, well, I take
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: care of my woman and I give her whatever she wants.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: All I ask is I don't even ask. I just expect,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: you know that she's gonna let me sleep around sometimes.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: And the the trad cons are like, no, you have
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: to respect her and like, you know, do the do
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: all these chivalrous things for her, and that's how you're
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: a real man. But they're both prescribing basically women's interests
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: or what they think are women's interests. Centrist, yeah for sure.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: All right, So d Maak says, this host seems bluepill.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know where you're getting that from. I've been
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: doing this a while, but.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Hey, i've been I've been called a feminist for calling
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: out trad cons, and so it's like, if you criticize
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: one camp, you're going to be demonized by the other one,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, yeah yeah uh.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Novapan twenty one gave us a rumble rant and says,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: can you say for certainty whether or not women refusing
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: to settle down or men refusing to participate in the
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: system is more effective at the more so, which of
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: which of these two approaches?
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Did you hear that? I'm sorry, I'll read with you again.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, no defense says can you say for certainty whether
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: or not women refusing to settle down or men refusing
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: to participate in the system is more effective at the moment.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: I think, let's see, I think men for refusing to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: participate because the migtaw I think is when people actually
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: start to panic and say, where are all the real men? Women?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Women not settling down? Is what we're responding to.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that women choosing not to
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: settle down and celebrated so that that's not going to
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: move the needle, as it were. But if there are
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: no men, then those women who don't want to settle
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: down are going to adjust.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: It's almost like it's almost like women are practicing the
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: four B movement and men are practicing migtail and it's
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: almost like a it's a stalemate. It's a stand still,
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: both people trying to you know, hold the line. I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: guess you would say.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, all right, back to the bullet point list.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: So it discourages independent thinking by creating ideological camps like
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: red pill, black pill, alpha beta, et cetera, that men
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: feel pressure to conform to or to avoid. But yeah,
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: I think again, Yeah, I think that a lot of
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: the manuspeer guys are selling something, so they need their
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: products to have like a brand to it. I don't,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: I don't like, I don't consider the Manisphere. Well, they're
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: not red pill at all. So that's why I'm sort
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: of describing them separately. Unfortunately though, and I think this
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: is very important to stress the way that the normies,
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: let's say, the normal people and a lot of the
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: trad cons online, Uh, they're going to react to us
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: as part of the manisphere. So you know, I say
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: that whenever we talk about the manisphere online, I'm saying, well,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: we're the Manisphere. And the reason why I say that
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: is not because we agree with them, It's because we're
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: gonna get lumped.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: In with them.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: I think that that's always been the case. In fact,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: do you know who Lauren Southern is?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: So you know Lauren Lauren Southern was like she was.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't call her a men's she wasn't necessarily a
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: men's rights activist, but she was sympathetic at first or
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: at least critical of feminism. And she even went to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: a slut walk with Karen Strawn, who you know is
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: like one of the goats, and slept on her couch
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: because she had to go to Edmonton and spend I
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: think like a night.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: There or two.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: So she was very involved. She was you know, she
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: went to see the Red Pill screening. She supported gamer Gate,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: and now she's turned against the manispeer at full stop
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: and she basically says, I helped build the Manisphere and
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: then it destroyed me. It was like a book that
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: she's and she's done an interview, and what I'm saying
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: is is that because she was like involved with us
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: from the beginning, you know, from what we were doing,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: even if she isn't attacking us specifically in her piece,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: she is basically painting with broad enough a rush that
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: it is good for the status quo, which is sort
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: of like the you know, the all of the people
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: who support the unfair laws and the unjust systems as
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: they exist. They basically they get to point to that
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: and say, see those people they don't have they don't
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: have any legitimacy because one of their own has come
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: out against them, right, right, So this is what I'm saying,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: like the struggle is real because you know, and I'm
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: not saying I'm not going to give up obviously, but
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: my point is is that the manisphere as it exists,
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: like the one that everyone talks about, the ones that
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, they are really useful to the status quo,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: to the yeah, like the normies, like the trad cons
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: and the feminist whatever.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, I'm sure it wouldn't surprise me if there's
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: industry plans or controlled opposition or whatever it is, because
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: this is a very political game that's going on here,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of money to take.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: A lot of lot trillions probably, yeah, yeah, brillions of
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: the at least billions. Yeah, and yeah, no, no, I'm just agree.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say as far as like just going
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: back to that bullet point about ideological camps they want
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: to lump you into, like if you're not this super
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: macho alpha male, then that automatically means you want to
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: put on a dress and wear makeup, so you're either
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: you know, or if you're not this super soft, submissive,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: feminine woman. Then you're an aggressive boss babe who wants
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: to compete with men. You're a butch lesbian, right, Yeah,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: so it's just you know, if you're not one camp,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: then you it's just it's always this zero sum game.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: It's either one extreme or the other. Yeah.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's extremely simplistic thinking.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: It's bubble gum. It's nonsense.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's silly, like my wife is feminine, but she's
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: got he's kind of a tomboy too, And I don't
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: like when I say feminine, that doesn't mean she wears
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: sun dresses, you know, Like, but yeah, you know, it's
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: just kind of silly like it to me, all right. Anyway,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: It selectively uses biology as justification when convenient, but ignores
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: it when it contradicts the narrative, resulting in pseudoscientific worldview.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is all right. This is all that evo
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: psych stuff that just governs everything in the manisphere. Everything
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: is you know, oh well that's just nature and there's
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: nothing that can change that. And it ignores all the
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: cultural conditions. I mean, you know, we talk about hypergamy,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, look at Shaw's work with the
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Dowry and it's like, okay, uh, if you know anything
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: about dowry history, you would understand that only rich women
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: could marry kings. So women couldn't just act on their
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: hypergamy and say, oh I want the richest man and
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: you know ninety five percent of men don't qualify. And
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: it's like okay, well, then you regulate hypergamy and you
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: have a culture that acknowledges that we don't just allow
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: you know, our slave, our our our nature to be
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: uh unrestricted.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, that's no, that's good. And I think
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's right.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: The evil psych stuff is again, it makes you feel
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: like you're smart. Have you seen that guy Alex Syke,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: He was like on on X I'm not sure. Well anyway,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: he's made appearances on some of these like more intellectual
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: man podcasts like Modern Wisdom and like Diary of a CEO,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: and they he'll use evil psych to explain everything, and
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: the thing is like, I mean, I believe that that
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: stuff is real, but I don't think it's everything obviously.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: Like no, biology, biology definitely plays a role.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but but we are socialized and there's culture and
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: there's other things as well. Yeah, things that are completely
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: malleable to some degree, right, Like like you said, when
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: when women think they're all entitled to a king, that's
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: that's definitely a recent phenomenon, so you know, most of
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: the time like they just and again, like before we
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: got this sort of like almost globalized social organism that
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: we're living in, Like like everybody's got social media and
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: the using dating apps. Before that, like dating was just
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: like whoever was nearby.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: You know, and you just goes from that, right, Well,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: what technology obviously is a big factor, and also the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: idea like Okay, look at men's biology. You could say
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: that men have a biological imperative to spread seed, So
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: why do we have enforced monogamy?
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you could say that for sure.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: I mean we have we have culture that basically restricts
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: men's biology. So we don't just say, okay, well, men
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: have a biological nature to want to sleep with every
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: woman he meets, and so why doesn't that happen? Well
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: because of laws and culture.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. All right, So next one is it often
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: replaces one dependency approval from women with another approval from
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: the audience creators or the community.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, just kind of like what we talked about before,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: we talked about before about how Yeah.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's well again, yeah, I think these guys are
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: selling something and I think that I don't know, like, yeah,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: we talked about that before.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, go ahead. They're very quick to label you,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: you know, beta or soy or shame you for failing
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: to attract or you know that kind of thing. So
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: it's like you gotta or whatever it is. It's like,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: you know, you're there's a term called like a mogging
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: or something like that on the alpha male of the group,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: and you know it's it's just it's just it's a big,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: you know, dick measuring contest if you want to call it,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, it's more of that competition, kind of
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: intersexual competition between men. So before I move on to
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: the next thing, have you run into any of these guys, like,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: because like the way you're saying it, I feel like,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: have you had any encounters with any of these Manisphere guys?
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah? A few short ones, Yeah, pretty much.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, I saw that you did, Like, uh, did you
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: talk you talked to Sneako at once?
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I talked to him and I did a collaboration
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: with him, and I have met Rollo. I've been on
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Access Vegas. I've met Rollo and Sartain and run to
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: him before and stuff. Who else I was on the
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Whatever podcast. I wouldn't necessarily say Brian's trying to be
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: an alpha male and pushing all the self improvement stuff,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: but you know, I mean he's more like doing the
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: trad con stuff and the spectacle yeah, and so uh
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: And then if you go like way back, you know
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: it was MTR and Kevin Samuels work with them, worked
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: with Pearl, so you know, I mean I've worked with
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: Manisphere guys and Red Pill coaches and PUA guys and
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: men's rights guys, and I kind of just got a
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: little taste of everything. And for the most part, I'd say.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you do you think would you consider because
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: I never met Kevin Samuels, but would you consider him
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: a Manisphere guy? And the same with the same kinds
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: of criticisms that you have had for the in a.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: Way because he did push the high value man thing.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: But you know, I will say that because you know,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: with Kevin, I mean it was about kind of like
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: you know, he was into like high fashion, high status
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: things like that. But I don't know. I mean, I
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: have a feeling that if Kevin was still alive today,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: he would basically be calling all these guys out for
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: just like just making it a clown show. Yeah.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well it also it kind of exploits these guys too,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: like you know, it like he saw that those there
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: were those young guys in the documentary that were like,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: you know, one of them was homeless, and they were
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: praising Justin for all the help they got. You know,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you think about that, Like if
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: those guys were exploited, do you think that they're it's
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: good that they got a lot of their situation.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: To be honest. I mean, I remember those two guys.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: I don't remember like like too too much. I remember, Uh,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: there's a conversation they had in a coffee shop where they're,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: you know, reciting that maximum about women are born with value,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: memus create their value. And I just keep thinking to myself, like, Okay,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: we're totally one hundred and eighty degrees away from what
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: Warren Ferrell was saying back in the seventies when he
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: was holding up signs saying men are more than success objects.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean, like, what do men have
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: any human value? And and you know, and they're just
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: gonna say, well, that's just the way it is. You know.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: That's it's like, well, thank you for pointing out the
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: fact that men aren't human beings. Should we change that
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: or are we just going to accept that? Yeah? Like
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: what we're just pointing, we're pointing out men's and justices.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: That's not necessarily like, that's as far as it goes,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: just saying Okay, this is the reality. It's you know,
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: it's it's an unfair world. It's an unjust world, and
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: accept it or fail. Yeah, yeah, okay.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: It rarely builds real world leverage like legal rights, institutional support,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: policy change, focusing intent on personal tactics and online narratives. Well, yeah,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: these guys are thinking small scale. I think that they
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: I think that they think they're living in a world
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: where you have to be a lion and it's better
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: to like improve yourself then try to address systemic problems
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: because most men can't do what they're doing. And I
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: guess the problem with that is it's it is and
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: I mean I'm surprised that I'm saying this, but it's
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: like hyper individualism, right, but to an extreme right, like
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: not seeing us as part of like a community or
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: a culture or a nation.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Collective, a collective. I wish it was some you know,
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: some type of collective action. And the craziest thing is
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: that these are the same guys who will push this
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: idea of what's called forced doctrine. Do you know what
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: that is?
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: They say, I know about forced doctrine from Andrew Wilson,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: but I've never heard these other guys say it.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: Well, Myron says it also, But basically it's this idea
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: that men. They say, oh, men can all collectively come
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: together and take away women's rights tomorrow, and then women
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have any rights. And I'm like, well, if men
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: can all collectively come together, wouldn't we have already done
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: that and improved our situation by changing the family court system.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: So it's like they'll use an argument when it suits
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: their narrative, but then they'll reject the same argument when
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: it contradicts their narrative. Why haven't men done that? Then?
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: What do you think? I think that men are pitted
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: against each other to compete for women. M I think
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: that there's a hierarchy because women typically choose men at
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: the top of a hierarchy, and so there needs some
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: type there needs to be some type of checks and
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: balances to restrict our our biological impulses to just be
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: selfish and not care for the greater good of society.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: I guess, mm hmm. I mean men are expected to sacrifice,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: but women aren't. No, women have no women have no
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: duty to society, but men are told that, you know, okay,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: society doesn't care about you, but we still demand all
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: of these uh uh, we still play like it's it's
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: almost like I've asked question, if someone like Myron believes
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: that women live life on easy mode, why is he
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: proposing that we place even more burdens upon men. Yeah.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think these guys have thought about these questions though,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: to be honest, that's that's much.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's true all right.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: And then lastly, you said, maybe this is what we've
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: already said, but it keeps men focused on competing with
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: each other for status instead of questioning the game itself.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: And that's probably the most important point, And that's why
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: I left it towards the end, because that's what I do.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: I question the game, and I say instead of instead
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: of navigating the problems, we should be fixing the problems.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I got a rumble ran from Novapan
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: twenty one. He says, my version of that is too
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: many simps keep men from uniting against feminism. So he's
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: referring to the coming together And basically it's the same
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: You're basically in the same argument. Uh you say that
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: you know men are pitted against each other, he says,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: it's simps.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: I think that.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of the same thing because men
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: can I think men are absolutely have organized to improve
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: the world in ways, but they just haven't looked at
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: themselves to see, well, what do we need?
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: And I think it's it is because there there is
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: definitely a like a division among men. But it's not
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: just for women's attention and approval. It's along all kinds
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: of different lines, right. It's why we have all this
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: class struggle like we make we make racial Let's say
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: we have we have racial tensions, we have religious tensions,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: we have class tensions and all these things. And the
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: people that the people who usually are the the on
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: the front lines of all of these tensions are men.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: Because we're the ones that are like, you know, pushing
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: and pulling it in any given direction instead of working together.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Because I think that as much as people say men
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: are like hyper competitive, I think that they actually do
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: much better when they're cooperative. It's like how we build everything,
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's I mean, yeah, we built civilizations and
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: cities and we're able to cooperate and these incredible things.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: But and it's not always women. I think that, you know,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: there's all sorts of different things that drive men to
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: do what they do. But it's like, why can men
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: all come together? Sorry, why can women all come together
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: and create a standard for men? But men can all
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: come together to create a standard for women?
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Came and do that, or maybe women should also be
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: a part of that centered enforcement. But I agree, I
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: think men should definitely like you know, be able to
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: But I mean, look, I mean obviously men are not
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: a monolith. There are men want different things at different
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: points in their life. Some men are religious, some men aren't.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: There's all different degrees of you know, motivation for people.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: So good, yeah, yeah, do you have anything else for
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: me or any other thoughts you want to share?
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know. If we got I mean, at this point,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to kind of get through that list.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: But oh oh you're dropping or you may have dropped
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: his Internet just like turned red for a second, so
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: we may lose him. Yeah, we lost him. Oh you're back.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: You dropped out, You dropped out? Yeah, can you hear me?
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: You went away? Can you hear me? You're back? Okay,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: you dropped out? Oh okay. I was just saying that.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: It just seems like I would just like to see
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: the issues that I brought up there or get discussed more,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: because I think what's happening is for the for the
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: people who actually want to discuss real men's issues. I
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: don't want to get sidelined by just thinking that self
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: improvement is the solution to all of men's collective issues.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: There's there's much I mean, you know, I talked about
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: this in a recent interview, but like the Manisphere doesn't
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: even have never talked about circumcision, They've never talked about
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: there's this many other issues. I mean, they'll warn you
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: about things, but they'll just say, Okay, well, you know,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: men just have to be smart and learn how to
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: dodge the land mines. And I'm like, okay, but that's
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: not a long term solution, that's not sustainable.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I agree with that well, and again
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think the Manisphere is a threat to society,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: but I don't think they're helping, so like, I don't
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: consider them part of what we're trying to do here.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: I just know that the media and stuff are gonna
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: basically make that association. But what we should do is
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: just keep plugging ahead. And I really appreciate your channel
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: because I think that you're people like you are like
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: basically doing the most heavy, the most impact, you know,
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate that. What I was gonna say is, uh,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: what's next for you your channel?
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: Do you have any other?
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: Because I now you're gonna be you're showing your face
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: more so, like what's next for the channel?
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: Well, just thank thank you also for what you said
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: there first off. But I'm trying to create a hybrid,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: I guess between what guys like you know, what we're
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: trying to do, and the the the manisphere guy like
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: in other words, I want to make it about dating
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: so it's relatable and there's entertainment and stuff, but I
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: want to wake guys up and realize like what we're
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: dealing with, and that, you know, I just want to
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: kind of like find a way to purify the message
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: so we can be a little bit more on point
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: and talk about real issues that you know, leave men
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: with a better outcome and not just about how much
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: status can you gain just through like I almost describe
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of it as we live in this ginocentric
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: society and most of this is just coping, and I'm like,
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't accept that. I think we could
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: do much better than just living with the problem and
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: trying to optimize within this mess of a dating culture
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: or society. And and I just believe the things are
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: gonna keep getting worse unless we start getting some healthier
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: messages out there that really kind of get the get
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: the manisphere back on track to what really inspired me
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: to get involved in the first place. I think, I
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: think we've just lost the plot, and I really want
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: to try to and I'm not out here even selling anything,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: and I'm just out here just trying to spread what
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: I believe is really going on the truth and and
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: at the same time do it in a way that
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: that is funny and amusing and is going to get
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: engagement and uh and just inspire other people to just
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Yeah,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: I'm with you on that.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: You know what, Actually, it's funny you bring it up,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: because I've been wanting to do this. Unfortunately, the people
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: I work with they live in Canada and stuff, so
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: it's like nearly impossible. But I've always said that what
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: we need is something that looks like a regular show
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: like podcast and a physical place like what you did
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: with Shaw and Paul and Matt was really cool, and
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: if there was, I know that that's like a once
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: in a blue moon type of situation, just because everybody
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: lives far away. But something like that that is like
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: almost like a regular series like maybe once a week
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: or something, and you have like people, maybe you have
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: guests on like Timcast or something, and you have like
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: a nice ish looking studio at least something that looks
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: like it's intended for that purpose, and you just do
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: discussions with different guests and stuff. I think that could
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: be huge, Like you just have to not im not
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: saying you, but is what I wanted to do, you know,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: cause I was in the Midwest. I live in Virginia now,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: and I thought like, man, if I had like a
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: garage space and I could just like set up a
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: little studio and have people, you know, come down, and
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: if I made enough money, I could fly them over
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: and you know, do whatever, right host things. That's what
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: I think would be the next step. And I'm pretty
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: good at hosting shows.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: Despite you know, the only the only thing you would
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: need is you'd need, you know, a table full of
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: OnlyFans models, you know, yeah, right right.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't go with that, but you know, maybe maybe
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: to start off. I don't know if I can find some,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: But well, that's how you I think that's how you
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: operate in the space, is you kind of like not
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: necessarily in what you just said, but matching the energy
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: in terms of like the presentation. I want to match
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: the presentation in my own way.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Well listen, I I want to make money just like
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: everybody else, but I don't want to sell my soul
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: to do it. I'm not going to basically compromise why
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: I got into this. But at the same time, you know,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: I think I do a nice hybrid of making something
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: that's entertaining but also is going to make you think
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: and be like, oh wow, that's a really good question.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: That's a really good point. And then now what I'm
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: trying to do is, you know, go on more podcasts,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: and as I give my ideas and my talking points,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: I actually have done the work and I could say, hey,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: I have a dedicated episode on my channel that goes
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: into depth about exactly what I'm talking about right here. Yeah.
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean, that's that's just my my dream is.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: To just I mean, I'm open. I'm open to all
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: sorts of ideas. I hope, I hope you are as well.
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: It's just a matter of what kind of doors open
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: up as you make more connections, as you grow as
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: a as a channel and things like that. And I
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: would love to see almost like a paradigm shift from
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: all of the kind of cloud chasing and we actually
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: get into more of you know, the things that actually
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: benefit men's lives.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, John, thank you so much for
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: coming on the show. I'm gonna end it here. You
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: have any final words for anybody? I put all the
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: linksier things in the description, So.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to thank you for having me back on.
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a great conversation. Always enjoy talking
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: to you. And I think we covered everything, so I
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: feel y.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: I feel good about it too. Thank you guys for
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: coming on the show and checking this out. I guess, uh,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: we'll definitely have John back on you know sometime, you know,
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: just as soon for what else.
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: So I just I just wanted to in case you didn't.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: You'll probably tag me in the in the thing, but
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: just follow my Uh. I'm on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: Uh and the uh it's just it's complicated channel. All
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: one word is my handle on Twitter. It's just a
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: it's comp channel. But I have a link tree so
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: it should be easy to find. Yeah.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all of that stuff is in the description. So
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: thanks guys for coming on the stream. I see there
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: were a lot of new faces and the chat people
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: who didn't know who I was.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: It's that's fair. I get it.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it though, regardless, and thanks for coming on
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: the show. If you guys liked this video, please hit like,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: subscribe if you're not already subscribed, hit the BELF notifications,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: leave us a comment, let us know what you guys
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: think about what we talked about on the show today,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: and share the video because sharing is caring. Thank you
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 1: guys so much for coming on this episode of the
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Fireside Chat, and we will talk to you guys in
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: the next one.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 3: Men's right activists are machines, dude. Okay, they are literal machines.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: They are talking point machines. They are impossible to fucking
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: deal with, especially if you have like especially if you
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 3: have like a couple of dudes who have good memory.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 3: On top of that, too, holy shit, you're fucked