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Life As A Researcher With ADHD · Dementia Researcher Vodcast

0:00
- [Voice Over] The Dementia Researcher Podcast,
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talking careers, research, conference highlights,
0:05
and so much more.
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- Hello and welcome to the Dementia Research Podcast.
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Today we're talking about life as a researcher with ADHD.
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(bright music)
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Hello, I'm Gemma Lace and I'm a dementia researcher
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and associate dean at the University of Salford.
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I'm hosting today's episode
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because this is a topic that feels really personal to me.
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ADHD is something that has shaped my own experience of work
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and research, and it's something I know many people
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are navigating quietly.
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In this conversation, we want to better understand
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what ADHD looks like in practise,
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how we can affect people differently,
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and our researchers have found ways to work
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with it at different stages across their career.
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We'll also talk about what has been challenging,
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what has helped, how people have found ways
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to succeed in research environments
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that are not always designed with neurodiversity in mind.
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I'm joined today by Dr. Eric Hill, Kalliopi Mavromati,
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Natalie Wickett and Kate Harris.
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Say hello everyone.
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- Hi. - Hi.
1:09
- Hello.
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- Thank you all for joining me.
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We've already said this is going to be fun
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and chaotic, so we might all break out
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into spontaneous laughter.
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So I think we just embrace that from the beginning.
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To start us off, could I ask you all
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to briefly introduce yourselves?
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So Eric, could I start with you?
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- Yep, I'm Dr. Eric Hill.
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I'm a reader in cellular
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and molecular neurobiology at Loughborough University.
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I was diagnosed with ADHD
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probably about eight or nine years ago.
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- Fabulous, thanks Eric.
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Kate, do you wanna go next?
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- So, I'm Dr. Kate Harris.
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I'm a senior lecturer
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in interdisciplinary drug discovery
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up at Newcastle University and I was diagnosed
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with ADHD about five months ago.
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So it's all very new.
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- Fabulous.
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Kalliopi, do you wanna go next?
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- You can call me Kalli, but Hh, I'm Kalli.
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I'm a researcher at the University of Glasgow.
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I research dementia
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and I create scales for measuring life after stroke.
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I was diagnosed with ADHD about two years ago at 23.
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- Fabulous.
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- Thanks Kalli, and Natalie.
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- Hi, I'm Natalie.
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I'm at graduate school at Simon Fraser University in Canada,
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and I got diagnosed with ADHD about four years ago,
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I think when I was 20.
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And I'm interested in researching dementia
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and strength training and physical activity.
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- Very cool.
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I'm already getting imposter syndrome now
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because I have been in and out of the diagnostic procedure
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for about seven years
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and now I've just abandoned it and given up all hope.
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So I the only one who's not formally diagnosed.
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(bright music)
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Okay, to begin, could you explain what ADHD actually is
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for someone who may be hearing about this properly
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for the first time?
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Eric, can I come to you first for that?
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- Yeah, ADHD is a terrible name.
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So it stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.
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And so what we need to understand is
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it's a lifelong neurodevelopmental disorder.
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It has a huge genetic component to it
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and around about two to 5% of all adults are suspected
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to have ADHD, but only about one in nine
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are actually diagnosed with ADHD.
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And I think when we think of ADHD, I was diagnosed
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with a combined inattentive and hyperactive.
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And so we think of often the the hyperactive side
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of ADHD and not necessarily that inattention.
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And it's not necessarily that we lack attention,
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it's that maybe our attention isn't directed
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at the right place at the right time.
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So you think of people following a particular task
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and maintaining attention,
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particularly if it's something they're not
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necessarily interested in.
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So maybe you're not listening
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to someone when you're being spoken to directly
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'cause you've got distracted,
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to the kind of more hyperactive side
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where you're fidgeting,
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you're tapping, squirming, biting your nails,
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leaving your seat when you'd probably be expected
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to stay sitting down
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and that kind of feeling of restlessness
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and almost like you're driven by a motor.
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And those are some of the kind of things
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that they look at when they're going
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through the diagnostic pathway review.
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- So you mentioned there, Eric, that there's often
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that focus on the hyperactivity element.
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So Kate, I'm gonna direct this one at you.
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Do you think that ADHD is misunderstood
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by the wider population?
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- Oh yeah.
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Also, I was really loving Eric,
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when you were giving your descriptions,
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it was properly taking me back to the questionnaire
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that they make you answer.
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Like the bit was like, oh,
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do you feel like you're driven by a motor?
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I'm just like, yep, that's memory right there.
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Yes, I think it really is.
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I think that there's a huge amount of
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development that's happening now where people are starting
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to understand more, but it's also a relatively new thing.
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It's not new in terms of people have heard about it,
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but for it to become quite mainstream is quite new.
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So we're starting to understand more
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and there's obviously kind of our generation are the ones
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that are really sort of learning about it,
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but obviously, it's hereditary.
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So our parents' generation
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and our grandparents' generation are like,
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what is this nonsense?
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This was just normal.
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And then they obviously forget that
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what there's normal maybe different to
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what is actually normal.
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I still find it hilarious that they go to your parents
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to ask them if you were normal growing up when there's a 70%
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or 80% chance that they were not normal growing up.
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But anyway, that's a discussion for later in the podcast.
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I think a lot of the misunderstanding is about
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that hyperactivity and not necessarily the inattention
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and the fact that you simultaneously be both distracted
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and hyperactive and hyperfocused.
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It's not intentional.
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None of this is intentional.
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It's just there's not enough dopamine for us
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to do whatever you want us to do at any one time.
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A huge aspect of it, at least from perspective people,
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myself and people I know is about
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internal emotional regulation as well.
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People misunderstand that side of it very much.
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And controlling impulse
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and controlling the ability
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to not speak even though you really don't wanna speak,
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but it just comes out.
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So a lot of that, so that can lead
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to you being the disruptive one in the room
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or the one that's not serious or the one that's always late
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because they don't care
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or poor attention to detail,
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which in the sciences does use such a solid when you can't
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pay attention to detail consistently.
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So yeah> - I think
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you're absolutely right there
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and I think sometimes what is misunderstood as well is
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how it can manifest differently in different situations
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as well as differences
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between different individuals as well.
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So Kalli, I wanted to to ask you about, you know, some
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of the things that you just heard there from Eric
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and from Kate about how maybe some of the things
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that they had experienced as part of their ADHD.
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What about your kind of individual experience of ADHD?
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- Yeah, I 100% agree with everything
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that's been said in case my nodding
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hasn't made that clear enough.
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I'm a serial nodder, whenever I agree, you'll see it.
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But yeah, I think for me,
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because it's difficult for me
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to discuss something about my past
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before I was diagnosed is actually quite emotional.
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But for me, as someone who has both autism
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and ADHD, it has been even just understanding
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what ADHD really means
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because it's very tangible to explain to my family
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and my friends and my colleagues
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has made a massive difference in my life.
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At the same time, I have experienced ADHD as a true gift
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and at the same time, a bit of a burden.
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I have, as I probably think many people
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with ADHD think, I have many times thought
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that there was something to be fixed.
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And in fact, even after I got my diagnosis
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and started meds for about the first year
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and a half, I thought I had to just fix my ADHD.
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And then it's only been recent months,
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which is well into the second year of me
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using stimulants, short term and modified release
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I should add as well,
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I'm finding that I don't actually want to change it.
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Instead I just want to find a way to regulate it
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so that I can continue doing everything I want to do
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and everything that makes me happy.
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But that does mean that, for example,
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when I'm in hyperfocused mode
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and thanks for bringing it up Kate,
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I was thinking about this,
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as I've been in the last two days actually.
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I need to just let my brain do its thing
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and then I will use my meds after when I'm calm
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and I'm struggling to get out of bed in like a week or so.
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So I guess
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I've like gone over like a gazillion faults there,
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but for full transparency, I made the decision
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to not take meds before this conversation
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so that I could be visibly unmasked
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because I never had that when I was growing up
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and I thought it would be nice to be that person.
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- Kalli, thank you so much.
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Thank you so much for sharing that.
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It's really brave and you are amongst friends here
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and your words are likely to really hit home
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with everyone who's listening.
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So thank you so much for your bravery, kudos to you.
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It is quite difficult to be open, isn't it?
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You know, I know when I was growing up,
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if you had ADHD you were kind of a naughty kid.
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I know my mom was really adamant about not being
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labelled with anything.
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I was described as a butterfly
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and I thought that was a much nicer
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because I was essentially, yeah,
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I don't even have the words to say
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what I want a Tasmanian devil running
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around interested in everything
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and you know, some of the words that you mentioned, Kalli.
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So I just went off on my first one of whatever.
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Kalli, you mentioned that hyper focus.
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I wonder if you or anyone else in the room
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just wanted to explain
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what we mean by hyperfocus
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'cause I think we all get what we mean by hyperfocus
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and it might be useful for the non-ADHD community
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to understand what hyperfocus looks like
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and also what happens after a period of hyperfocus.
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- As a neuroscientist, I've been very intrigued by that
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because I never was taught that in my degree.
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Not at any point,
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but from everything I've understood
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in the last couple of years, hyperfocus is kind of,
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it's also hormonally determined, especially for women.
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We wanna make that very clear,
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but it's basically, it's not a state, it's just kind of,
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your brain just kind of starts being a little bit hyper,
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but not in the physical hyper way in the, I have a lot
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of thoughts and I want to do the things I am thinking.
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For me, a lot of the time it's doing science,
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like a lot of science very intensely
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without wanting to stop.
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And if I am interrupted because I have to eat
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or I have to sleep, it actually feels like uncomfortable.
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And sometimes that hyperfocus can look like me,
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like having all-nighters.
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It can be stress induced sometimes for me
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because I'm no longer in education formally,
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it's not induced by stress, it's more by creativity.
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And whenever that happens to align with that cycle
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of my menstrual phase, but it's,
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but yeah, it's that kind of thing.
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And then afterwards, it's sort of a,
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your brain has used up all of the dopamine
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it has to help you initiate tasks
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because as Eric said, it's not that
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you don't have attention, it's that you have it spread out
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in a lot of places
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and there's not quite enough dopamine for you
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to focus in one place and actually act on what you wanna do.
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So once it's all been used up during your hyperfocus state,
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you kind of then tend to crash in my experience.
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And it's a little bit like it's harder
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to do the basic things.
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Eric, what you think?
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- Yeah, I think a lot of what's not kind of described
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in the diagnostic criteria when you're talking
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to professionals
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and other people, it's that the linking all of that
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to your executive functions, that there's things
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that I guess most people take for granted,
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but kind of your inhibit your control, your self control,
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your ability to hold information, your working memory
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and your cognitive flexibility are all disrupted.
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And those links to kind of
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where you get reward from something
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and that reward can differ wildly
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to doing something really boring and inane.
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And for me, a lot of the time it's,
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I love reading about science sometimes
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and I'll just go into a rabbit hole
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of science and then I'll emerge and it'll be hours later.
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And knowing I'm doing that, having,
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I've got maybe tonnes of marketing to do in the background
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and I'm getting reward from
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one thing and not from the other.
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So I'm just focusing on the thing.
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And then having that time blindness where you don't notice
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'cause it's difficult to shift your attention.
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And I think for a lot of people with ADHD,
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it's that shift in attention from that hyperfocus
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where you get a reward to something that's not necessarily
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that interesting to you or that rewarding at that moment
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unless there's those other things like fear of failure
13:31
and embarrassment and stuff driving things forward.
13:34
And I think the way people present the diagnosis rates
13:37
between males and females is very different.
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And that's not based on any biology or genetics.
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The occurrence is identical,
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but I think the presentation is different
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that often women don't often show that hyperactivity
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or it's frowned upon.
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Whereas me running and jumping
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and throwing myself at trees,
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that's fine, that's what boys do.
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It's just being in a laugh
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and my parents said, you haven't got ADHD,
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you're just like your dad, right?
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And I was like, hmm, yeah,
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like kind think like there's a reason for that.
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He'd get the same score as me I imagine.
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So I think that that kind of
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how the kinda social representation like comes to bay
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as well, what people are expecting to see
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and then that kind of internalisation,
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that internal hyperactivity.
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People might not see that but it's still there.
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So I think people understanding there are different ways
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it's presented but it's still those
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very similar symptoms as well.
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- Yeah, cheers Eric.
14:32
Natalie, what about you?
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We spoke a lot about, you know, how the symptoms
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manifesting in different people in the room.
14:39
So what about you, what's your experience of ADHD?
14:43
- I actually wanted to touch back on ADHD being
14:47
misunderstood and hyperactivity
14:49
and what Eric just mentioned about the differences
14:51
in presentation between males and females.
14:55
And that as a girl, I find that I have
14:58
that more internalised hyperactivity
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and I might be completely still, but my mind is going
15:04
and going and going and that kind of difference there,
15:08
which I've spoke about with many of my friends
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who have ADHD as well.
15:15
Yeah, and I think that can make it very misunderstood
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for girls.
15:20
- Question.
15:21
Natalie, I was thinking recently I was noticing
15:24
that when I'm like around
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and during my period I find that I, a lot
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of my internal hyperactivity is emotional.
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So like I tend to kind of think about not nice things
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and things that make me really sad.
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But then when, when I'm out of that part
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of my cycle like I am now, it's more about things
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that make me actually want to act.
15:43
And sometimes I do get a little bit
15:44
of physical hyperactivity
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but still like the internal hyperactivity is more like
15:48
creative than it is emotional.
15:51
Do you find that at all?
15:52
- Yeah, I did actually wanna talk about the like
15:55
menstrual cycle as well and I'm glad you brought that up
15:58
because that's where I was originally gonna go with my point
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that before I lost my train of thought
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that in my follicular phase when oestrogen is higher,
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I do feel like my focus is much better,
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I feel better in myself.
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I feel, I mean most women do,
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but my ADHD symptoms I feel like are partially relieved
16:17
and they get much worse in the luteal phase.
16:19
I struggle with my mood much more.
16:21
I struggle with my focus much more.
16:23
Everything feels much worse.
16:24
Sometimes it even feels like my medication just doesn't work
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in that part of the cycle. - That is so true.
16:31
It's just, and you can't predict
16:32
if it's gonna work or not, right?
16:37
- They had to give me an extra booster
16:38
for when I'm on my period 'cause nothing works.
16:42
My long release stuff doesn't work.
16:44
So they literally had to dial up my meds
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just for that week. - Wow.
16:48
I tried not taking them when I find
16:51
that they're making me a little bit hyper
16:52
and actually on those days just before my period,
16:55
actually that seems to work better.
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But then it's again a coin toss.
16:58
You have to take it one day
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and find that it's, oh it's making me do too much today
17:02
and then it's, you can't predict it.
17:05
Like those few days are just totally--
17:07
- Get in the hang of it.
17:08
I've only just finished titration
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so I'll let you know in a year's time.
17:13
- I think it's important as well for people that the links
17:16
between oestrogen and menopause, I think a lot
17:18
of people getting brain fog, memory loss
17:20
and also realising they've got ADHD at that point
17:24
and that again, being misdiagnosed is quite important.
17:28
- So literally, 'cause the two were for,
17:30
for girls are often children.
17:32
So if you're not found out sooner,
17:34
found out, that was the wrong phrase.
17:36
It's children or menopause, you're right
17:39
'cause I have no idea this was a total blindside to me,
17:42
two years ago, but then I had kids
17:45
and my whole like my brain fell apart.
17:48
- Yeah, absolutely.
17:49
The compensatory mechanisms like
17:51
you get them all together and then children
17:53
or menopause, all that shifts and that blanket of oestrogen
17:59
and hormones changes
18:00
and then whatever mechanisms you were using as a bit
18:05
of a survival tactic are just that rug is whipped around
18:09
and so it changes. - Honestly with kids,
18:10
do you have time for yoga
18:12
to stop you buying a million things on a random website?
18:15
No.
18:18
- More about the panic eating custard creams in secret
18:21
so that you can do something.
18:25
It happens. - Yeah, I always used
18:26
to eat caramel digestives when I would study
18:29
to like try and help me.
18:32
- I have a friend introduced me to volume eating
18:36
and she explained that basically if you just eat foods
18:40
that are very chewy, even if they don't have a lot
18:42
of calories, so think carrots, popcorn,
18:46
like it doesn't even have to be like healthy.
18:47
It can literally just be eating popcorn
18:49
or like tortilla chips because you're, you know,
18:53
I don't know about you but I stim with chewing a lot
18:55
of the time so that's also why I lost
18:56
a little weight once I started meds.
19:01
Just chewing, it helps a lot.
19:02
So something I tried was,
19:03
when I first started I would like take my meds
19:05
during the week and then not in the weekend.
19:07
And I realised that if I make sure I have popcorn
19:10
and like baby tomatoes or carrots
19:12
and cucumbers in the house,
19:14
I could literally just like be constantly chewing
19:16
while I watch a movie and I can sit still to watch it
19:20
because I'm chewing the whole time
19:22
and it doesn't fill me up too much.
19:24
But I still kind of feel like I've eaten, I don't know,
19:27
the caramel digestives is a great idea
19:29
and I'm gonna try that on my next office date that I go.
19:33
- I was gonna mention that it's the key
19:36
kind of diagnostic criteria criteria when you go
19:38
through all the questionnaires and you tick them off
19:40
and your doctor looks at it and says whether you're,
19:43
you know, you've hit enough of the points
19:44
to go into the diagnosis but the sides of it
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that aren't part of the diagnostic pathway.
19:49
So things like that emotional dysregulation,
19:52
the rejection sensitivity, the sleep,
19:53
the time blindness, sensory process
19:56
and the fact that they 85% people
19:58
with ADHD have something else going on.
20:00
Whether that's mental health issues, autism, dyslexia,
20:04
dyspraxia and all of those.
20:05
And so people don't think about
20:07
that when they're thinking about ADHD.
20:08
They're just thinking about these people
20:09
that are bouncing about and uncontrollable.
20:11
They're not seeing all those other things that I think
20:14
that are quite important for people with ADHD
20:17
and they think that maybe they struggle with
20:18
that aren't part of the criteria.
20:19
- Also, I have been thinking about this lot
20:23
and I would, I was thinking it would be good
20:25
to bring it up in this Dementia Researcher Podcast.
20:29
I've been listening to, you know, friends and family
20:33
and although I can't share their stories
20:35
because they're not mine to tell,
20:36
I'm seeing that some women in
20:39
and around my life are realising
20:41
that actually they have ADHD later in life.
20:44
But much later in life that at the point
20:46
where other people may worry that they have dementia.
20:50
I distinctly remember the months
20:53
before I started meds, I was really struggling
20:56
so much I kept saying to everyone around me,
20:59
I feel like I have dementia.
21:01
I find unfinished emails everywhere.
21:03
I don't remember starting them.
21:04
I don't remember why they're not finished.
21:06
There's missing words in the stuff I write.
21:09
I'm confused, I dunno why that's happening
21:11
even though I have systems
21:11
so I don't forget stuff technically.
21:15
And I was thinking as a researcher
21:17
that actually this is probably something
21:20
that you can find in functional measures of daily life.
21:23
I literally two days ago wrote up a project proposal
21:27
where I'm going to try
21:28
and use functional like functional activities records
21:32
from a retrospective cohort of older adults to try
21:35
and see if I can make up an ADSU diagnosis based on
21:38
that functional daily life data.
21:41
(bright music)
21:46
- Okay, so one thing that I'm really curious about,
21:49
we're all dementia researchers in the room.
21:52
Was there anything specific
21:54
around being a dementia researcher
21:57
or being in academia
21:58
that made your ADHD maybe a bit more apparent
22:02
or triggered it
22:04
or made you notice different sides of your ADHD?
22:06
I see Kate is nodding enthusiastically.
22:09
Should we go with you first Kate?
22:13
- Yes.
22:14
I have three words
22:15
that maybe people in this call will identify with,
22:18
which is rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
22:24
- Please elaborate because there may be people listening
22:26
who have no idea what that is.
22:30
- So this is a term used
22:33
to describe, I'm trying to think of a way of saying it.
22:38
A phenomenon.
22:39
Oh my goodness, I sound so jargony.
22:41
Essentially one of the hallmarks of having ADHD can be
22:45
that you are incredibly sensitive to perceived rejection
22:49
and perceived is a really important word here.
22:52
So two things I wanna clarify there are
22:54
sensitive does not mean it's uncomfortable.
22:57
It means there is a visceral pain in the very centre
22:59
of your being that makes you feel evolutionarily like
23:02
you're being chased by a lion.
23:04
Now I haven't actually been chased by a lion,
23:06
but I have been in fear for my life in the past
23:09
and the feeling is the same.
23:11
The second is the perception of rejection.
23:13
So for me, unless feedback
23:17
or comments are genuinely positive,
23:19
my brain will interpret that as rejection.
23:22
Which means anytime any feedback
23:25
or any conversation does not lead
23:27
with someone saying something outwardly positive about me
23:30
as a human being or a researcher,
23:33
my fight or flight kicks in and as an academic,
23:39
rejection, genuine rejection comes thick and fast
23:42
and perceived rejection is pretty much constant.
23:45
So I'm not gonna lie.
23:47
Yes, okay.
23:48
I'm not having any structure during my job.
23:51
Becoming an independent leader was bad,
23:53
but realising that I couldn't navigate
23:55
even being in meetings, the differences of opinion
23:58
or every time I asked something, someone saying no
24:00
'cause bureaucracy said no was basically me
24:03
in a constant state of panic attacks.
24:06
And that was when I realised maybe I was a bit more
24:08
than just bubbly and like to run around a lot.
24:12
- And I think that that is something that is crucial
24:16
if you are a PI or a supervisor
24:19
or you are working with someone with ADHD,
24:22
if you are not aware of that
24:24
and the impact of your words
24:25
that can literally send someone into a spiral
24:29
of anxiety
24:31
and catastrophizing, that is something really important
24:35
that you know, if you're listening to this,
24:37
if you're watching this
24:38
and you aren't aware of that, you've been mindful of
24:43
how you articulate feedback and being mindful
24:47
and being able to read the room knowing
24:48
that not everyone will be able to be able to read that room.
24:52
It's so important isn't it?
24:56
- So I'm laughing.
24:57
That was actually probably pretty bad.
24:59
- It is very uncomfortable.
25:01
I've seen some interesting memes about this of people
25:04
kind of laying in foetal positions
25:06
after getting paper rejections
25:08
and it is that bad, isn't it?
25:09
It is absolutely horrific.
25:11
- Well if you just present a research idea
25:13
and someone just goes, yeah, I don't really believe
25:15
in your field of research and you're like, right,
25:17
I just need to jump off something.
25:18
Like there's no point in me being here.
25:20
I'm gonna move like, and you can't control it.
25:23
It's not drama.
25:24
Like I would love not to behave like this.
25:27
And it's not like I kick off in the meeting,
25:28
I go and I just sob on my own.
25:30
But the fact of the matter is, is it takes time away
25:32
from writing grants.
25:34
- Yeah.
25:35
What about some of the positive elements
25:38
of ADHD then, you know, how have you kind of embraced
25:43
some of your ADHD to make progress?
25:46
Everyone in this room is successful
25:48
and if you're thinking no I'm not
25:50
that's your imposter syndrome,
25:51
that is absolutely your imposter syndrome.
25:53
So what do you feel have you been able
25:57
to take advantage of with respect to your ADHD?
26:02
- I think I'm really careful
26:03
'cause I know some people say that ADHD is a superpower
26:08
and I don't believe that,
26:09
it wouldn't be a disability or seen like that if it was.
26:12
And I think if you could bottle
26:13
that hyperfocus, yeah, amazing.
26:15
But you can't, so it's the worst superpower ever.
26:19
If you could like, if you can't
26:20
actually use it when you need it.
26:23
So for me though, at certain times,
26:25
that kind of interest in something
26:27
and for me, it's always been science since I was a child.
26:29
I think my nan used to know that she came
26:32
to science museum and that's carried on.
26:33
And so for certain things in science that
26:34
I would just be buried in and really be obsessive
26:38
and I think that energy that that brings
26:40
that people are like, oh my god, Eric's really excited,
26:41
jumping up and down that you've got a result in lab.
26:43
Kind of that infectious enthusiasm for certain things.
26:47
I think that's been great at maintaining focus
26:49
in certain things and which is great in science
26:52
'cause you're constantly chipping away
26:54
and you're in interesting stuff.
26:55
I think it's when you can't do that
26:58
and you're having to do admin
26:58
and other things in your job and the boring stuff.
27:01
And especially I think
27:02
as your career develops, your role gets bigger.
27:04
You're doing other things.
27:05
You've got a group,
27:06
you've got all these deadlines
27:07
and that's when I had my diagnosis
27:09
because asked like why can't I mark 60 exams
27:12
in a day like other people?
27:14
But I did 20 other things
27:17
and it was another academic that said, yeah
27:19
because you've got ADHD Eric.
27:20
And I was like, everyone used
27:22
to joke about that when I was a child
27:24
and they went that kind of thing
27:27
and I thought, oh, I went speak to my doctor
27:28
and they went, have you ever done a test?
27:30
And they went, wow, you've got a high score.
27:32
And I think, so for me there were certain things
27:33
that worked really well with being a PhD student postdoc
27:37
apart with some of the boring stuff.
27:38
It was later on that it became a massive problem.
27:41
And I think that academia is that constant environment
27:43
of being peer assessed, peer reviewed.
27:46
And just asking for rejection
27:48
and then how do you deal with that?
27:49
You can either spiral
27:51
or I just get, oh, I'm gonna prove you wrong kind of thing.
27:53
Like I get angry and like it almost,
27:57
and then I'm gonna be tenacious,
27:58
I'm gonna actually might prove you wrong.
27:59
And that emotional dysregulation can
28:01
send people in a different direction.
28:03
I think those around you might, my god, they got angry
28:05
about that or really upset really quickly what was all that?
28:08
And next section you're like, I don't really care about it.
28:10
I'm going to have some food, it's gone.
28:12
So I think people might not understand around you
28:14
that dysregulation, that lack of control
28:18
is because you're not able to control it.
28:20
It's part of the ADHD and and for us maybe accepting that
28:24
and understanding why we do that
28:25
and not beating ourselves up is important.
28:27
But the people around you might think, oh my god,
28:32
don't really understand that.
28:33
One of my PhD students said I had an abrasive enthusiasm
28:35
for science sometimes.
28:40
In a good way I think.
28:41
But I could see what I do jump up and down.
28:43
I do get excited about stuff
28:46
if I'm really excited about part of science.
28:47
That's all I'll talk about for ages.
28:49
So I can understand that from other people.
28:52
But yeah, for me, it's been great
28:53
because my interest is science
28:54
and it's my job so it's like my hobby.
28:57
- It's really great to hear that
28:59
'cause I know that having special interest and that passion
29:01
and enthusiasm, it's great if you've got somewhere
29:04
to channel it and many people don't have somewhere
29:06
to channel it and that can exacerbate
29:10
the symptoms even more.
29:11
Natalie, what about you?
29:12
You know, how has ADHD influenced your career
29:17
and how you've, you know, navigated your,
29:21
maybe your student years and your choices?
29:24
- Yeah, I think the two things
29:26
that I would definitely say I managed to, I struggled
29:30
to navigate the most is the lack of structure
29:35
and the fact that I would call myself a perfectionist.
29:38
But really it's more like if I can't get something right
29:40
the first time, I don't wanna do it at all.
29:43
That's something I really struggle with.
29:44
Probably linking back to the rejection sensitivity.
29:48
But if I, yeah, if I can't do it perfectly the first time,
29:51
I don't wanna keep trying, I wanna call it a day.
29:56
But I think the lack of structure
29:57
is probably the biggest one.
29:59
Going into university,
30:01
when I went and did my undergraduate, I went to Exeter,
30:03
did neuroscience and it was almost like the rug
30:07
had been pulled out from under my feet.
30:09
Whereas before I had this environment that I'd created
30:13
to support myself and I had my family to look after me
30:16
and help me
30:18
and remind me, like my mom would say, Nat,
30:19
have you done your homework?
30:20
Nat, have you packed your lunch?
30:21
Nat, you know, everything really got your PE kit.
30:25
And if I hadn't, she'd pick me up on it
30:28
and she'd drop me my lunch to school or something like that.
30:31
But then all of a sudden when I went to university
30:33
and I had all of that taken away
30:35
and it required a lot more executive function
30:38
to navigate daily life and daily tasks.
30:43
And that was really difficult
30:45
in a new environment like that.
30:48
And yeah,
30:49
all of a sudden I went from forgetting my lunchbox
30:53
to locking myself out of my flat multiple times a week
30:55
and forgetting my keys
30:56
or missing doctor's appointments, missing lectures,
30:59
not being able to get through lectures, things like that.
31:03
And the lack of structure from university compared to school
31:07
and having to regulate my own schedule, my own timing.
31:11
That was something that was really difficult for me.
31:15
- It's a real big shift isn't it, from going from
31:17
that really structured kind of environment
31:20
to the research environment is completely lacking structure.
31:24
I'm gonna ask something that might expose myself here.
31:27
Has anyone, has anyone else
31:30
as a compensation mechanism for that
31:34
discomfort with the lack of structure gone the other way
31:37
and had to really over structure everything
31:41
to feel kind of safe and secure, right?
31:44
Maybe lists everywhere of things.
31:48
Is that a me thing?
31:49
Is that my ADHD does anyone else, you know,
31:53
for certain things have to, right like, Kalli's nodding.
31:58
- Yeah, I've been, this is like,
32:01
there's so much overlap between what you
32:03
and Eric have been saying about you know,
32:05
and also not, sorry oh my gosh, I had like six tabs open
32:09
and I'm trying to just stick to one thought.
32:11
I was trying to answer what you said about
32:12
the compensator mechanisms.
32:14
I use the office, going to the office,
32:18
which I don't like doing because I hate the commute.
32:21
I use it to force myself to do things that I don't wanna do.
32:27
So I say yeah, wait, wait, wait.
32:28
It works, it works.
32:29
If I say, okay, I'm gonna treat, I'm gonna get myself,
32:32
I got myself a nice coffee machine
32:33
and so I will make myself a really nice coffee
32:35
and I will enjoy my coffee on the way to the office.
32:37
And then when I get to the office, I will just do the thing
32:39
I don't wanna do and I'll just do it
32:41
and it'll be out of my head.
32:42
Also what I've started doing to kind of give myself
32:45
a little bit of structure. and oh.
32:47
and I don't allow myself to think about those things
32:49
I'm avoiding when I'm not at the office.
32:51
That has solved a lot of issues for me.
32:53
It works so well.
32:54
It's compartmentalization, it's kind of like,
32:58
like enclosed cognition
33:00
but instead it's just about where you are.
33:02
It's conditioning yourself.
33:03
You just have to stick to it.
33:04
It's hard at first
33:05
and then it starts working a lot.
33:07
It works.
33:08
But after the other thing I do is I actually work nights.
33:12
So whenever I have to write, I can't do that
33:16
when there's people around.
33:17
And I'm finding it that if I'm home alone,
33:20
unless I'm in hyperfocus mode, I can't get myself
33:24
to do things when I'm alone.
33:26
So I go to the office later like one
33:29
or 2:00 PM, I do the things I don't wanna do while
33:32
there's people around, you know, I'm the office jester,
33:34
I bother them all the time.
33:36
And then when they're gone then I turn the lights off
33:39
'cause I don't like the big light
33:41
and I just work away until like eight or 9:00 PM
33:43
and that's me finished.
33:44
And I don't carry stuff home.
33:47
And I don't allow myself to do things
33:51
outside of my designated, you know, structure
33:55
that has absolutely no meaning
33:56
because you could literally just say Kalli,
33:58
couldn't you just do the exact same things
34:00
but in your home at your desk?
34:02
No I can't, I don't know what to tell you.
34:04
It's about that change of environment.
34:06
It's about telling myself it's actual do things
34:10
that are annoying time,
34:11
but that structure really has been
34:13
working really well for me.
34:15
- So you've got some really good compensation mechanisms
34:18
there about that building your own structure,
34:20
setting some clear boundaries,
34:23
understanding when you work best and how you work best.
34:27
And it also sounds like you've snuck in a little bit
34:29
of reward there with linking to your favourite coffee.
34:31
So there's some really cool lessons to be learned there.
34:34
Sorry Eric, did you want to say something?
34:36
- Yeah, so I really benefited from coaching later on
34:40
after diagnosed, meds really helped.
34:42
But then coaching was really great
34:43
and then I trained to become a coach later on
34:47
and kind of like when we were talking about things
34:49
my coach said, Eric, you're weird for someone with ADHD
34:53
because you've got so many organised things
34:55
to make sure you look organised.
34:57
That's really unusual and I didn't really understand those
35:00
and my part of it might be fear of failure,
35:02
that rejection sensitivity.
35:03
I don't appear normal in academia
35:05
'cause I have so many electric reminders.
35:06
Even time you've got 15 minutes start meeting,
35:09
you've got 10, you've got five because I know I'll
35:11
carry on talking to someone.
35:13
And those things there I've got two whiteboards
35:15
with multiple notes on, 'cause I know I'll be blind
35:17
to both of them at different points
35:18
and I'll have things popping from my computer.
35:20
My watch will start to vibrate if I'm doing a lecture
35:23
to say, Eric stop, you're gonna go over the time.
35:25
And that there's so many things I've put in place
35:27
and then a few people have also suggested
35:30
because I have so many rules I've created
35:33
and then maybe they've become more apparent of medication
35:35
that maybe I've got autism and ADHD.
35:38
And when I thought I didn't, lots of people just laughed
35:39
and said, why do you think you don't?
35:41
All the light sensitivity, noise sensitivity.
35:43
The things I do in the same order,
35:44
my bag is in the same position.
35:45
All my meds are in certain places in the kitchen
35:47
that I know I will have to pass and go to.
35:49
My bag is in front of the door
35:51
so I cannot forget it before I leave.
35:53
There are so many things to put in place
35:54
to make sure that that happens.
35:56
And I think a lot of people would just do that,
35:58
but I have to have them there.
35:59
If I'm on the train, my bag is wrapped around my leg
36:02
so I don't leave it.
36:04
So there's just lots of things
36:05
that you've done to appear normal.
36:07
But all these reminders I have to have
36:08
and that's kind of really helped to have those.
36:11
But I think like Kalli said is it's,
36:13
it's having those rewards built in.
36:15
So if I let myself make myself do this bit that I hate,
36:19
then I will get to have lunch or that snack
36:21
or I'm gonna go for a walk now or do something else
36:23
and compartmentalise it.
36:24
So maybe some people describe it as golden time.
36:27
I'm gonna do the really boring things in the morning
36:29
when my meds are at the highest.
36:30
So by the afternoon I can do other stuff.
36:33
And I always work best at night and for ages I tried not to,
36:36
'cause I thought that's really bad for me
36:37
but I don't work very well when other people are around.
36:39
If I haven't got my playlist or whatever it is
36:42
or my noise cancelling headphones depending on where I am,
36:44
I can't do that extended writing.
36:46
So having those rewards built in,
36:48
but just sometimes when you are in that moment,
36:51
I have to just let it go.
36:52
Now I might, I'll spend hours writing
36:54
or doing something else because if I try not,
36:56
if I try to force myself to do it at a different time,
36:58
it's just never gonna happen.
36:59
- That was such a hard lesson for me to learn.
37:03
I have, I went my entire education and career
37:07
before meds by just having multiple jobs, multiple things.
37:11
I did Greek exams to get here
37:14
and I was using one
37:15
to productively procrastinate the other because that works.
37:18
I didn't have much free time
37:19
but I was avoiding one by doing the other.
37:21
So I was actually so productive
37:23
and I did that throughout uni
37:25
but then at some point everybody was like, you need
37:28
to go slow and steady with your dissertation.
37:30
And everybody kept trying to force me to work in a way
37:32
that I am not capable of working
37:34
and I never will be able to do,
37:37
slow, steady and slow and steady.
37:39
No, never, can't do that.
37:41
- There's such a strong restage in that for people who
37:46
aren't living with ADHD.
37:47
It's having a bit of empathy of the different ways
37:51
of working and acknowledgement that, you know,
37:55
it was a big deal when I was in the lab of who was in
37:58
at what time and how many hours people were doing.
38:03
And that research culture of acceptance
38:05
of different ways of working different patterns.
38:08
Many of you have mentioned using different states
38:12
of your energy to do different tasks.
38:15
Is that getting the worst thing done first?
38:18
It's, you know, it's called eating the frog
38:19
in the coaching world.
38:20
It's like get that worst thing done and out of the way
38:23
and then reward yourself afterwards.
38:25
So there's loads of really useful insights for people
38:28
who may be looking at this.
38:30
(bright music)
38:36
So Natalie, have you got anything that you
38:38
want to add to that?
38:39
- Yeah, I feel like I've tried a million different things
38:41
to help with ADHD symptoms.
38:43
I've done all the planners,
38:44
I'm sure we all have and it's nothing new.
38:48
But I have a few kind of what I call little hacks for myself
38:51
to set myself up for a good day
38:53
and set myself up to be productive because otherwise,
38:56
I will just hyperfocus on scrolling on my phone.
39:01
So mainly diet and exercise.
39:04
I find it really important for me.
39:05
If I move, I feel a hundred times better.
39:09
So I tend to wake up and go to the gym straight away,
39:13
have a high protein breakfast to help kickstart my day,
39:17
get that dopamine production going.
39:19
I think the high protein breakfast is really important.
39:23
I have blue light glasses even though I don't have
39:26
prescription glasses,
39:27
blue light glasses make me feel like I'm smarter
39:30
and make me feel more productive.
39:33
So for whatever reason I put my glasses on, I'm in my zone.
39:36
It's kind of like when you don't wanna go for a run,
39:38
if you put your shoes on and do them up,
39:40
you're ready to go for the run.
39:41
Same kind of concept for me.
39:45
And another rule I have is don't put it down, put it away.
39:50
If I put something down, I never pick it back up.
39:53
I know I won't.
39:56
So put it away, don't put it down.
39:58
Alarms, I have a million different alarms on my phone
40:01
because I know that I'm gonna forget my appointment.
40:04
So I set an alarm an hour before,
40:06
get ready for my appointment, get ready
40:08
for my meeting, get ready for my lecture.
40:10
I know that's done and body doubling as well.
40:13
Super important for me.
40:15
Half the stuff I get done I can't get done on my own.
40:18
If I need to tidy my room
40:19
or if I need to do some work,
40:20
I'm gonna call my friend and I'm gonna do it
40:22
whilst I'm on the phone or if they can come sit even better.
40:26
And lastly, if I have a day where I don't take my medication
40:31
or something, obviously do your own research
40:33
before taking anything
40:35
but L-tyrosine is, I find incredible supplement.
40:38
I think it's supposed to boost your dopamine.
40:41
I can't quite remember how it works off the top of my head
40:44
but definitely something
40:45
to look into if anyone out there like doesn't work
40:48
with medication or thinks they might have ADHD
40:51
and they don't wanna take medication or they can't yet
40:54
because they've not got a diagnosis, look into L-tyrosine
40:58
and see if it helps.
41:01
- Fabulous, thanks Natalie and we will come back
41:02
to medications in a moment as well.
41:04
But first I just wanted to make sure that Kate,
41:07
what do you think about coping mechanisms?
41:09
What works for you?
41:11
- Cheers, I was just gonna say that yes,
41:13
'cause L-tyrosine is the precursor to dopamine chemically,
41:16
which is why the high protein breakfast
41:18
works so well as well.
41:22
I had to get my chem head in there
41:24
somewhere was gonna say.
41:26
So I'm very new to all of this
41:28
so I'm learning a lot from all of you.
41:30
Thank you because I said this kind of came out
41:33
of nowhere in the past couple of years
41:35
and I don't really know what's going on.
41:37
But what I do know is
41:40
that normal time management methods do not work.
41:43
So we hear a lot of eat that frog
41:45
and blah blah blah blah blah and I can't,
41:47
the frog is irrelevant to me
41:48
'cause I'm interested in the zebra in the corner.
41:51
So I have to build up in a slightly different way.
41:56
I was also gonna say, sorry.
41:57
I know but you know what I mean?
42:00
Randomly, I want to just tell Eric yes,
42:01
I'm trained as a coach too and it's amazing.
42:05
Anyway, so,
42:06
and that's been really helpful for me actually
42:08
as a coping mechanism.
42:09
Didn't realise it at the time but I think it was deliberate
42:12
'cause I wanted to understand how other people behaved
42:15
and the ways other people behaved.
42:17
I think that has become something of a special interest.
42:21
But it really helped me understand the responses of others.
42:24
And so if someone's very direct, but that's
42:26
because they're a very direct personality,
42:27
it makes me less likely to spiral, et cetera.
42:31
But in terms of getting stuff done, I have to build up
42:36
almost like build up dopamine.
42:38
I need quick wins in the morning to get started.
42:42
If I just go for the hardest things first,
42:44
I'll just end up rocking in a corner.
42:45
But I just go right, what is the smallest, easiest thing
42:49
that frankly is gonna take me nothing
42:51
and I have to just build up the momentum
42:54
and then I can tackle that big thing,
42:56
which is the exact opposite of what all the common
42:59
Task management tells you to do.
43:03
It's something I really wanna bring in to our institution.
43:05
We're all facing efficiency drives across the sector
43:10
and any efficiency drive has got
43:11
to take the neurodivergent mind into accounts.
43:13
There will need to be separate advice on task management
43:16
for people who cannot just, you know, people go,
43:20
oh just block out your day.
43:21
Great, my outlook says I'm not doing anything
43:23
but I can assure you that that is not what is happening.
43:27
So yeah, so I think
43:29
that's the bit I'm learning And then I just wanna thank
43:31
the rest of you for all of your advice
43:33
because I've taken much of it on.
43:37
- That's brilliant Kate.
43:38
Again, it's coming back to
43:39
that thing of appreciate we've got people in the room
43:43
that have got that same diagnosis
43:45
but that there's still variations in how we need
43:49
to do things in our way for us in relation
43:51
to our fluctuations and our experiences.
43:56
And I was also laughing 'cause I'm a coach as well.
43:59
It's like, and you know
44:02
and I've met so many people in that coaching space
44:06
of people like, oh yeah maybe.
44:08
And I think it's about that you know that some
44:10
of those other parts, elements.
44:12
- How I actually started looking into it was
44:14
'cause I was on a training accelerator.
44:15
I train with the coaching academy
44:16
and they do these big accelerators.
44:19
- Oh hello.
44:20
- I literally, I got onto one of the calls on one
44:22
of those breakout rooms that they do
44:24
and someone went, well you're in your own space.
44:26
And I went, no I'm not.
44:29
I was literally honest to God.
44:30
And then a few months later when everything
44:32
started falling apart, I was like, maybe she was right.
44:35
I've been trying to find her,
44:36
I can't remember her name obviously like,
44:38
but I wanna find her and be like, cheers fam.
44:40
She was like, no, there's something about you,
44:41
you're spacey.
44:43
- ADHDers need to help others and support others.
44:50
Okay, so let's just,
44:51
so we've spoke about a lot of the coping mechanisms,
44:53
which is really around how we kind of manage ourselves
44:57
and use tricks and tools to manage ourselves.
44:59
But what about medications then?
45:02
Are they any good?
45:03
Do they really help?
45:04
Eric, do you wanna kick us off?
45:06
- Yep, I think linked to people's coping mechanisms,
45:08
if you've met one person with ADHD,
45:11
you've met one person with ADHD.
45:13
It's a great like phrase
45:14
that I've learned from one of my friends with ADHD.
45:17
And I think the same with medication.
45:18
People have to find what works with them
45:20
and it can also be what brand.
45:22
So I've been quite lucky.
45:23
I've found medication straight away that worked
45:25
and went through different stages of titration.
45:28
So I'm on one of the stimulant medications.
45:29
I must say that there's different types.
45:31
There's a stimulant medication, things like methylphenidate,
45:34
which is kind of like weak speed,
45:36
some people might describe it as.
45:38
And then there's a non stimulant medications
45:41
and that carries with it a stigma.
45:43
And because you go go to get collected,
45:45
it's a controlled drug, you have to sign extra things.
45:47
It's in a bag with an orange sticker on in the UK
45:49
to say controlled drugs, they have to go
45:51
and count it out as well at the same time,
45:54
you have to constantly go in
45:55
and drop the prescription off and be checked.
45:58
So there's those kind of things that come along
45:59
with medication but people have to find
46:01
the different things.
46:02
My sister has a diagnosis, she's tried multiple medications
46:05
to try and find the right one
46:07
and sometimes they just don't work for people.
46:10
I think we have to be careful they don't do everything
46:12
to fix your ADHD
46:14
and they can help control some of the symptoms
46:15
to help you to focus.
46:17
But I think you also need to develop other skills.
46:19
And I think for me, coaching was the big thing
46:22
that went alongside the medication
46:24
to understand my brain better and how I do things,
46:26
but also to challenge people around me
46:28
to have those difficult conversations.
46:30
To have some tools to use and to understand.
46:34
One of my biggest issues is if people
46:35
aren't clear in their directions.
46:38
So like, you know, that will lead me to procrastination.
46:41
I'll waste loads of time doing too many things.
46:42
So having this kind of clean setup
46:45
where I'm gonna work in a particular way
46:47
'cause it works for me and explain that to other people.
46:50
But I think everyone needs to understand the differences
46:52
between the medications
46:53
that they may try then they may work some of the time
46:55
and not all of the time that your diet might be important.
46:58
The exercise, how much sleep you're getting
47:00
and if you're ill and whether they're gonna work.
47:01
And so I think some people get really disappointed
47:04
quite quickly with them 'cause they're not
47:06
doing things straight away.
47:07
And it took maybe for me three months
47:09
before I noticed that suddenly I was doing loads of stuff
47:11
that usually I struggle with.
47:12
And also I was like, wow, I've just done
47:14
loads of marking in one go.
47:15
And I thought, oh is this what other people are like?
47:19
All that noise wasn't coming in.
47:21
I wouldn't like to say they're not voices,
47:23
but you know, the like not quite being tuned into the radio
47:26
properly that there was too many other things
47:28
and then all of a sudden, I was productive
47:30
and I could get that done.
47:30
I was like, oh wow, that was weird.
47:32
And then in the afternoon, yeah, I'm bouncing
47:34
around all over the place
47:35
and maybe for some people they have top-ups
47:38
so there are medications that are instant,
47:40
other ones kind of slow release.
47:42
So you get that early kind of rise and then slow decline.
47:45
And some people they break that down quickly
47:47
and need topped up in the afternoon
47:48
and then there might be a bit of a spike in their focus.
47:52
And then that also relates to maybe their behaviour
47:54
and their emotional state.
47:55
And so I think for having people around you with
47:58
that understand, oh, it's the afternoon, Eric's medications
48:01
gonna be running out, these metres
48:02
are gonna go on a bit longer.
48:03
Let's do this at nine o'clock
48:04
and put something right after it.
48:06
So we have to finish on time,
48:07
but at least he's gonna focus the most then.
48:09
And so it's important to understand
48:11
how they change over the day.
48:12
But there are, so I think
48:14
for me there were lots of advantages.
48:15
Medication changed my life, no doubt about it.
48:17
I think you probably would've stopped me having
48:18
some kind of nervous breakdown.
48:20
But I think after that, after dealing with
48:22
that initial change, it was, what else do I need to change?
48:25
And it was the way I was working to suit other people,
48:28
not to suit the way my brain worked
48:31
and almost that period of mourning
48:32
and then understanding I'll fight my brain
48:34
and other people need to understand
48:36
that I will just go along.
48:37
I am a people pleaser and actually be better for me
48:40
to work in a different way.
48:42
And so that's been really useful to have the tools to do
48:44
that alongside the medication.
48:46
- Yeah and that people pleasing is exhausting isn't it,
48:49
when you're trying to do it everyone else's way.
48:52
And I think once there's an acceptance
48:55
of your ADHD of I can just do it my way
48:59
and I can articulate to others what would be useful for me.
49:03
And I think given that we're really nearly out of time,
49:07
I'm really keen that we have a strong roundup message
49:11
for the audience.
49:12
(bright music)
49:18
So if someone was listening to this
49:21
and they thought that they had ADHD
49:23
or maybe it's someone who is working closely with someone
49:26
who does have ADHD or maybe you're a supervisor
49:30
and you've got a student with ADHD, team,
49:34
what do we want them to take away from this discussion?
49:38
So Natalie, could I come to you first?
49:40
What do we want people to take away from this chat?
49:46
- From the perspective of a student with ADHD,
49:49
I think it's very important, as Eric was saying,
49:52
to have clear instructions
49:54
because if they're not clear, obviously procrastinate.
49:57
But more than that I think it just
50:01
makes your life so much easier to follow step by step
50:04
and have everything clear.
50:07
And secondly, lots of small deadlines.
50:09
If I have one big deadline, I'm not gonna do anything
50:12
until you know, it's urgent.
50:14
And the urgency is a big driving factor
50:17
for people with ADHD.
50:18
But if I have lots of small deadlines,
50:20
the urgency is gonna come at different points
50:22
and it'll force me to make sure I get things done
50:27
when they need to be done and keep me on track.
50:29
And that's probably the biggest factor that helps me.
50:33
- Yeah, really good tips there.
50:35
Kalli, what about you?
50:38
- I mean it's like I said, Eric said no two people
50:40
with ADHD will be the same.
50:43
I wish my supervisors,
50:46
if I could have told them one thing, I would've said,
50:49
please don't give me deadlines and be patient with me.
50:52
Help me understand what I need to do
50:55
and I will find a way to work, make it part
50:57
of my system instead of making myself fit
51:01
a plan you think will work but probably won't
51:04
because I don't work in the same way as you
51:06
and I do say the same thing to my colleagues also.
51:09
I ask them to wash my mugs
51:10
because I cannot wash my mugs at the office.
51:16
They're very nice about it.
51:17
I bring coffee and then just they wash my mug
51:19
as a thank you.
51:20
So I really appreciate them.
51:22
So that's my message.
51:27
- Thanks Kalli.
51:28
Kate, what about you?
51:31
- I dunno how I can follow that.
51:33
Do you know what, I'm sorry to be soppy.
51:36
Normally I like to be the Bantersaurus Rex,
51:38
but what I'm gonna say is that the one thing I want someone
51:43
to take away, whether they have it, think they have ADHD
51:46
or they have a colleague with ADHD is compassion
51:49
for yourself, for your colleague with that is curiosity.
51:54
You know, we're taught in coaching
51:55
that no behaviour is a problem behaviour.
51:58
And I said that oddly like the parent
52:00
of a toddler, apologies.
52:01
But what I mean is a lot,
52:05
it's about curiosity and understanding.
52:07
You can look at someone and go, oh, they're different.
52:08
They're annoying, or you could get curious about it.
52:11
And that includes with yourself.
52:13
So rather than going, oh,
52:14
why can't I shut up in this meeting?
52:16
I went in determined not to say a word,
52:18
and then I couldn't, get curious.
52:21
Or if you're wondering why a colleague,
52:24
sometimes I think one person wants to describe me
52:25
as schizophrenic because, you know, one second, I was,
52:28
it's not okay to say, I know, one second,
52:31
I was all confident, the next second I was hiding.
52:33
And actually, rather than saying as a judgement ,
52:35
maybe go for why, why might that be kind of thing.
52:39
So just ask a person the question.
52:41
Ask yourself the question
52:42
and be compassionate about whatever the response is.
52:46
- Beautifully put, Kate.
52:48
Beautifully put.
52:49
Cheers, Eric.
52:51
- I think, yeah, I think just being educated
52:54
to understand what ADHD is and what it isn't,
52:57
and understanding that person that you work with.
52:59
They might have these highs and lows.
53:01
They might be working really hard all the time
53:04
and just to help look out for them.
53:05
That be very clear about boundaries
53:08
and enable them to have structures
53:11
so that they can work within,
53:13
within a particular way that's helpful to them.
53:14
And trying to understand that,
53:15
but also to understand that to, in order to people please,
53:18
they may burn themselves out
53:20
unless the instructions are clear
53:21
and because the medications are often stimulants,
53:24
we don't necessarily get tired
53:25
while we're burning ourselves out.
53:26
And so I think it's important to realise that, you know,
53:29
to sometimes give people clear boundaries
53:32
and tell them exactly what you want from them,
53:34
and understand that it may take more time for them
53:36
to do that, or they may need to work in a particular way,
53:39
but to just really understand for their ADHD,
53:41
what they're like and what works best for them
53:43
and what doesn't.
53:45
- So hopefully those tuning in will now have
53:47
a much better understanding of what ADHD is
53:49
and how it affects people differently.
53:52
We have spoke about so much in this session.
53:55
It has been really interesting and really exciting.
53:58
We've gone from various tips and hacks
54:01
and things that have worked well for people living
54:04
with ADHD to some advice for those working with ADHD.
54:09
But I think what we've done importantly is maybe quash
54:12
some of those misconceptions around what ADHD might be.
54:17
And maybe we've encouraged some empathy in the fact
54:21
that it looks very different in different individuals
54:24
and even in the same individual.
54:26
It can look different at different times of the day
54:29
or depending on the cycle of the month
54:32
or what has been eaten for breakfast and so on.
54:35
So this has been a brilliant discussion
54:38
and I can't wait to meet you all in person.
54:40
That is gonna be fun.
54:43
Thank you so much, Dr. Eric Hill,
54:46
Kalli Mavromati, Natalie Wickett
54:49
and Kate Harris for sharing really authentic, genuine,
54:54
honest, brave stories today and great advice.
54:58
The links to relevant resources will be included
55:01
in the show notes along with a full transcript,
55:04
which will be available at dementiaresearcher.nihr.ac.uk.
55:10
Don't forget, we do have
55:11
the Dementia Researcher Community app
55:13
where you can share your own experiences
55:15
and talk about this topic more.
55:17
Thank you so much for listening.
55:19
I'm Dr. Gemma Lace and you've been listening
55:22
to the Dementia Researcher Podcast.
55:24
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55:25
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55:30
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