Latest / The Hannah Hammond Show / From Rock Bottom to Real Estate Empire: How Quitting Drinking Changed James Dainard’s Life

Transcript

From Rock Bottom to Real Estate Empire: How Quitting Drinking Changed James Dainard’s Life · The Hannah Hammond Show

• 0:00
  I haven't drank in a very long time since I was 19.
• 0:03
  And I do believe that that is why I'm at where I'm at today.
• 0:10
  I grew up in Sammamish, WA. My parents at the time had a
• 0:13
  very small business. And so at a young, young age,
• 0:16
  about 8 years old, I started working in a warehouse.
• 0:18
  In my early days. I quit drinking at 19 years old.
• 0:21
  You know, I was a pretty like, even though I was working, I was
• 0:24
  going to school, I like to get after on the weekends.
• 0:27
  On my 19th birthday, I wrecked my car.
• 0:30
  And I just remember I woke up and I was in a hospital bed and
• 0:33
  I was like, and I was looking at the friends that I was
• 0:35
  surrounded with and where they were going in life and where I
• 0:39
  was starting to go in life. And it was not matching with my
• 0:42
  work ethic. And you know, at that point, I
• 0:45
  kind of had that moment of clarity of going like, wow, my
• 0:48
  life is not going well. There's nothing more
• 0:50
  demoralizing than wrecking your car on your birthday, waking up
• 0:54
  in a hospital bed, being handcuffed down in a hospital
• 0:56
  bed. And I just remember I was like,
• 0:57
  you know what, I'm going to take a break from this for one year.
• 1:00
  I was like, I just need to go refocus.
• 1:02
  Because I had graduated high school.
• 1:03
  I was supposed to be going to college and I ended up choosing
• 1:06
  to be a Bart, a waiter instead of going to college, which is a
• 1:09
  bad decision. And then taking that break and
• 1:12
  really focusing my on myself, it allowed me to restructure my
• 1:17
  life, get back in college, getting through college, I was
• 1:19
  being relentless on where I wanted to be because what I did
• 1:22
  know is I did not want to be the kid in the hospital, but.
• 1:24
  Today I'm super excited to be sitting here with James Daynard,
• 1:27
  who just moved to Arizona, and he's just an absolute gem of
• 1:31
  human being. He's built the real estate
• 1:33
  empire that I have always dreamed of building and I know
• 1:36
  many of us do. He has almost 1000 units, doors
• 1:41
  of real estate in his portfolio. He just released a book called
• 1:45
  The Flipping Framework. Is it?
• 1:47
  You just published it, right? Yeah.
• 1:48
  Bigger Pockets just published it for.
• 1:50
  Us awesome. Yeah, he's the host of the
• 1:51
  Bigger Pockets podcast. Which one is that called?
• 1:55
  The on the market, yeah, the best one.
• 1:57
  Yeah, host of On the Market, the Bigger Pockets podcast, I mean
• 2:02
  the list goes on and on. He has a real estate brokerage
• 2:04
  in Washington a covers. Yeah, we have a real estate
• 2:10
  brokerage which is heat dater and then we have.
• 2:14
  The What's the syndication? That's covers capital where we
• 2:17
  we acquire multi family buildings, do value add
• 2:22
  syndication. Yeah, so Heaton Daynard in
• 2:25
  Washington is his real estate brokerage.
• 2:28
  He has a Academy where they teach flipping, wholesaling,
• 2:31
  private money lending. He has a private money lending
• 2:33
  company and fund and a multi family syndication fund called
• 2:37
  Covers Capital. And literally, I have no idea
• 2:40
  how you do it all, but somehow you've done it.
• 2:42
  And the most impressive thing to me is that even with the empire
• 2:46
  that he's built and is still building, he's just like an
• 2:48
  incredible human being and has an incredible family and seems
• 2:51
  like an incredible husband and dad.
• 2:52
  And just like everybody I know absolutely loves you.
• 2:55
  And you know, you didn't get the, you didn't become an
• 2:57
  asshole with all the hard work and, and all the things that
• 2:59
  you've done. So I'm really excited to have
• 3:01
  you here today. Thanks for being on Relentless.
• 3:03
  I'm, I'm excited because I, I, that's my term in life.
• 3:06
  Relentless. Go get what you want.
• 3:08
  Go get what you want, never give up.
• 3:10
  No. Have you read the book?
• 3:11
  I have not read the book yet. It's good.
• 3:14
  Like Tim Grover, I I. Saw that on your on Yeah, so
• 3:17
  I'll have to check it out. I got to admit I'm not a huge
• 3:19
  reader. I'm like more of a spreadsheet
• 3:21
  numbers for casting. But that's my goal is to read
• 3:25
  more books this year. Yeah, I get you.
• 3:27
  It's hard for me to sit down and actually read because I'm like a
• 3:30
  stat, a habit stacker. And so I'll do an audio book
• 3:34
  while I'm at the gym or while I'm driving or something like
• 3:36
  that. I'm much better with an audible
• 3:38
  book. Yeah, plane rides and gyms.
• 3:40
  That's usually when I I listen to them.
• 3:42
  Exactly. But well, cool.
• 3:44
  So I know we we had some time together yesterday and I got to
• 3:47
  know you a little bit, but I wanted to save the story for the
• 3:49
  podcast. So I would love to hear about
• 3:53
  your childhood and, and some of the experiences that you had
• 3:56
  growing up. And I know a lot of us who
• 3:59
  strive to accomplish and do ultimately accomplish great
• 4:01
  things in life and become leaders and visionaries and
• 4:04
  empire builders have some, you know, some story behind it and
• 4:09
  some drive and some why that caused them to do so.
• 4:12
  So I know I shared some of my story with you and, and my
• 4:15
  overachievement and my relentless pursuit of, of
• 4:18
  freedom in all areas of life, but would love to hear kind of
• 4:21
  what your background was and some of the challenges that you
• 4:24
  faced along the way in that relentless pursuit of being
• 4:27
  becoming who you are today. Yeah, you know when when you
• 4:30
  can't believe how long ago it is now.
• 4:33
  Like time flies. But you know, when I grew up, so
• 4:36
  I grew up in Sammamish, WA and at the time, now it's like
• 4:39
  actually a pretty expensive city, but at the time it was
• 4:41
  like kind of the woods, like we were out kind of in the middle
• 4:43
  of nowhere, normal blue collar suburb town.
• 4:51
  You know, I would say like pretty normal upbringing as far
• 4:55
  as that goes, like locational wise.
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  But I think the big difference is, and part of the reason I do
• 4:59
  the things I do today is I was kind of made a worker from a
• 5:03
  young, young age. And so, you know, we grew up, my
• 5:07
  parents at the time had a very small business.
• 5:09
  They sold real estate marketing referral to brokers.
• 5:13
  So like closing gifts, sold signs, May.
• 5:16
  It was just basically a warehouse of packing.
• 5:18
  And so at a young, young age, about 8 years old, I started
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  working in a warehouse, filling up marketing materials, filling
• 5:25
  up those things and really starting work when I was a very
• 5:28
  young person. And kind of that hard work was
• 5:30
  ingrained in me, like definitely my house.
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  It was the most important thing you could do in life is to work
• 5:37
  hard. And it was a matter of like
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  whether you work hard or not was going to be how enjoyable life
• 5:45
  is going to be down the road. And so, you know, I was always a
• 5:49
  hard worker. I tried hard in school, you
• 5:52
  know, I wasn't like a perfect straight A student, but I got
• 5:55
  A's and B's and would work a lot.
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  And, you know, and part of that was I also like to have fun.
• 6:02
  And so, you know, like in my early days, and I think these
• 6:05
  are always important things to do as a big part of my story
• 6:07
  today is I quit drinking at 19 years old.
• 6:11
  And the reason I got quit drinking at 19 years old is from
• 6:14
  15 to 19, I was, you know, I was like, even though I was working,
• 6:18
  I was going to school, I like to get after on the weekends.
• 6:22
  And it was kind of like that relief for me of like who I was
• 6:25
  like getting out there just partying hard because I would
• 6:29
  party hard and then work hard. And you usually hear that like
• 6:35
  in your 20s, you know, like, but this is happening at I think I
• 6:38
  started this about 1314 years old.
• 6:41
  I started, you know, drinking, having fun.
• 6:44
  And you know, eventually what happens, you know, as you kind
• 6:47
  of grow up, you know, we have a, we have a lot of different,
• 6:50
  there's alcoholism runs in my teeth.
• 6:53
  And so we have a history of that in our family.
• 6:55
  And I think when you are that kind of person, you push harder
• 6:59
  and you have some really good character traits to excel you in
• 7:02
  life. But at the same time, it gets
• 7:05
  you to kind of excel towards everything else as far as
• 7:07
  partying, having a good time. And because I was working and
• 7:12
  going to school so much, that was like my, my way to check out
• 7:15
  from life and that antidote with bad results.
• 7:19
  So I quit it drinking at 19 after I actually on my 19th
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  birthday, I wrecked my car and I was going to the next party
• 7:27
  because there was always the next party.
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  And you know, at that point I kind of had that moment of
• 7:32
  clarity of going like, wow, my life is not going well because
• 7:36
  it was progressively, it was progressing very quickly, like
• 7:39
  16/17/18. I was getting more and more
• 7:42
  trouble every year and I just remember my parents friends or
• 7:46
  my friends parents would always be like, wait, but Jimmy works
• 7:50
  hard. He gets good grades.
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  I was like, kind of like an Eddie Haskell, almost like
• 7:53
  perfect kid on paper, not perfect on the weekends and and
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  it, it really started catching up to me and one of the best
• 8:02
  decisions I ever made in life. And it's that it's when life
• 8:04
  gets hard and you have, you know, I think I really do
• 8:08
  believe you build yourself and build your character when you
• 8:12
  feel bottoms, whether it's through lifestyle choices,
• 8:16
  financial choices, the hard times are what mold you as a
• 8:19
  person. And I just remember when I was
• 8:22
  19 years old, I woke up and I was in a hospital bed and I was
• 8:25
  like, and I was looking at the friends that I was surrounded
• 8:28
  with and where they were going in life and where I was starting
• 8:31
  to go in life. And it was not matching with my
• 8:33
  work ethic. And I just remember I was like,
• 8:36
  you know what, I'm going to take a break from this for one year.
• 8:39
  I was like, I just need to go refocus because I had graduated
• 8:42
  high school. I was supposed to be going to
• 8:43
  college and I ended up choosing to be a Bart, a waiter instead
• 8:47
  of going to college, which is a bad decision.
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  And so I gave myself a breather one year.
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  I rolled back in college and that was the best thing I ever
• 8:58
  did in my life. You know, when I wrecked that
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  car, I was like, I'd never thought I would ever do
• 9:03
  something like that. And then it happened.
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  And then taking that break and really focusing my on myself, it
• 9:10
  allowed me to restructure my life, get back in college.
• 9:14
  And at the end of that one year, I just remember going, I never
• 9:17
  want to drink again. And so, you know, I'm a bed in
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  recovery, haven't drank in a very long time, since I was 19.
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  And I do believe that that is why I'm at where I'm at today.
• 9:34
  But you know, it's and I would have never got there unless I
• 9:39
  had that kind of hard time, you know, the rock bottom.
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  Like there's nothing more demoralizing than wrecking your
• 9:45
  car on your birthday, waking up in a hospital bed, being hand
• 9:48
  cut down a hospital bed, not a good time.
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  And you're going like, what am I doing?
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  Because I knew I could have other potential.
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  And so, you know, but those those moments is what Rocket
• 9:58
  shitted me from there. And that's where I went to
• 10:01
  college and I became razor focused on life.
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  It was all about going to, you know, I went to University of
• 10:07
  Washington. I would go 9 hours a day, twice
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  a week. And then I would work 30 hours a
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  week on the weekends as a waiter and bartender, just making cash.
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  And then I started knocking doors and getting into real
• 10:19
  estate Monday through Friday. And so I worked 50-60 hours a
• 10:23
  week as I was getting through college.
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  And I was just focused. I was being relentless on where
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  I wanted to be because what I did know is I did not want to be
• 10:31
  the kid in the hospital bed. And so did you like, were your
• 10:39
  parents influential on your decision to quit drinking or, or
• 10:43
  your decision to start drinking? And like did like, I guess what
• 10:47
  role did your parents play in your teenage years?
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  Like were you, were they motivating you or were they, I
• 10:57
  don't know, like I guess were they motivating you to become
• 11:00
  something better or were you like, I don't really want to be
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  like this. I want to be something
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  different. But well, my mom definitely is
• 11:08
  motivating me to be better because she just knew like the
• 11:10
  first time I got trouble drinking, she knew immediately
• 11:14
  and put me in some classes. And like, I think she saw like
• 11:17
  how I acted as a person, you know, because I think, you know,
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  I do believe people that I believe addiction is genetics
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  and we are wired a certain way. And she could just tell in me I
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  was different than my brothers and sisters, that like, I was
• 11:31
  always focused. I was always pushing hard and,
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  and she knew I partied hard. And so she was always there.
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  My mom's great. But you know, the reason I think
• 11:43
  I was so attracted to drinking too is because my my dad has a
• 11:47
  massive history of addiction. And same with my grandpa and my
• 11:53
  grandpa after that. And so I was always around
• 11:57
  drinking and I would see it. But, you know, I don't think
• 12:02
  either one of them wanted me to drink.
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  They just you know what my mom, she wanted me to be a healthy
• 12:07
  kid. My dad more was like, I just
• 12:09
  want you to do what I tell you to do.
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  And so, you know, I would say like everybody in life has
• 12:16
  different upbringings. You know, some are really good,
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  some are really, really bad. And you know, the thing I did
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  see is as you, as you grow up as a kid, you can you see who your
• 12:28
  role models are and you see who you role models that you don't
• 12:30
  want to be. And I think that was important
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  for me at 19 was when I woke up, I saw myself going down the same
• 12:36
  path as my my family and I did not want to be that person.
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  And so, you know, I mean, being raised, I mean, the one thing I
• 12:44
  definitely, you know, learned, I think that the thing I took away
• 12:47
  from my dad the most was work hard.
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  Other than that, the rest kind of got pushed away.
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  And that was the really good trait.
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  But you know, what I have seen is how addiction can hurt a
• 12:57
  family over time. And you know, one thing I do
• 13:01
  know, and I try to act that way in life is I never want to be
• 13:04
  that person. And so, you know, I think it's a
• 13:08
  matter when people are looking at bad experiences in life, like
• 13:10
  do you want to learn from it and shape or do you want to be a
• 13:13
  victim of it? And you know, for me, if I want
• 13:17
  to grow, I cannot play the victim and I have to be
• 13:21
  accountable for my own actions and my actions dictate where I'm
• 13:24
  going to go in life, not what someone else did to me.
• 13:28
  And, you know, so, you know, I wouldn't say we had on paper, we
• 13:33
  probably had a pretty good upbringing, but inside the house
• 13:36
  was not the most fun place. And so, you know, and those are
• 13:40
  hard things you got to work through.
• 13:42
  And, you know, I do think those are things that also push you to
• 13:44
  drive, to be who you are. And but, you know, we all go
• 13:50
  through things and it's a matter of how you let it shape yourself
• 13:53
  and how do you work through it too?
• 13:56
  Because, you know, whatever happens to us in life will shape
• 13:58
  how we act down the road. And it's a matter of how do you
• 14:01
  address it to push forward, not just about dealing with it.
• 14:05
  Exactly. Yeah, it's like that quote that
• 14:07
  or story where the person's says, oh, I'm an alcoholic and
• 14:12
  they're like, oh, why are you, why are you an alcoholic?
• 14:14
  He's like, oh, because my dad was an alcoholic.
• 14:15
  And then someone else is like, oh, no, I don't drink alcohol.
• 14:18
  Why don't you drink alcohol? Oh, because my dad was an
• 14:20
  alcoholic. You know, so it's like you
• 14:22
  decide where every experience in your life that shapes you.
• 14:24
  It's like my brother and I, you know, he's, he's an alcoholic
• 14:28
  and rents a bedroom for $700.00 a month in Tempe and doesn't
• 14:33
  have a car. And I have an amazing life and
• 14:36
  I'm super happy and I built great businesses and great
• 14:39
  relationships and great friends. And we both had the same, most
• 14:43
  of the same experiences and same, you know, household, same
• 14:47
  upbringing, same generation, all of that stuff.
• 14:50
  And it's just a matter of how we decided to deal with our
• 14:53
  situations and who we wanted to be and who we wanted to become
• 14:55
  and, and what price we are willing to pay to become that
• 14:58
  and push through. So, you know, numbing out can be
• 15:02
  seem like the easy thing, but in the long run it's not.
• 15:05
  It's much harder than just doing the work and and pushing and
• 15:09
  being relentless in the pursuit of not settling for mediocrity
• 15:12
  in any area of your life and for who you are.
• 15:15
  Yeah. And I think that was when that
• 15:16
  was that moment of clarity at 19.
• 15:18
  I was like, I do not want to be this person.
• 15:22
  And I kind of you can play the victim in that role, like, oh, I
• 15:24
  had bad luck. I was on my birthday.
• 15:26
  I just went a little too far. I won't do that again or, you
• 15:29
  know, I'm this way because, you know, some people just accept
• 15:32
  like I'm this way because of it's my DNA.
• 15:35
  And it that was where it really flipped a switch on me was I
• 15:39
  don't want to live this life and this is the life I want to live.
• 15:43
  And this is who I want to be. And but you have to own it
• 15:47
  yourself. Like I was in the position I was
• 15:50
  in at 19, not because of anybody else, because I made those
• 15:52
  decisions. And I feel like that's really
• 15:55
  important, not only just in life, but in business.
• 15:58
  You know, there's going to be ups and downs.
• 16:01
  And one of the best things that I think you can do is just own
• 16:04
  your own mistakes and don't make that excuse.
• 16:07
  And if you can own those mistakes, you can actually look
• 16:09
  at what's going on and go, OK, let's take inventory of what's
• 16:13
  working and what's not working and why is this not working?
• 16:16
  And should I remove it or can I fix it?
• 16:19
  And it's the same thing when you're in those hard times.
• 16:21
  And I think hard times, the, the most influential times in my
• 16:26
  life and the most powerful times of my life have been the hardest
• 16:30
  and they felt the worst. And you wake up and you have a
• 16:33
  pit in your stomach and you don't quite know what to do.
• 16:36
  And unless you look inside and not outside, there's nothing you
• 16:40
  can really do. And so you always got to build
• 16:42
  the foundation within, not look for an excuse or someone else to
• 16:46
  fix it, because that is what people do too.
• 16:48
  You know, even in business, like my business isn't work.
• 16:50
  And I'm going to go hire this coach.
• 16:52
  They'll fix it. And they're going to give you
• 16:54
  advice. They're going to help guide you,
• 16:56
  but you have to do the work. And that's where, you know, at
• 17:00
  19 I was like, I'm ready to do the work.
• 17:02
  But then you got to be careful too, because then the work can
• 17:04
  become as soon as addiction in itself.
• 17:06
  Yeah, yeah. You know.
• 17:08
  Success. It feels good, right?
• 17:09
  Like that's what like when I was drinking, it felt good to drink.
• 17:12
  It felt good to use drugs because it got me out of self of
• 17:16
  what I didn't want to deal with. And you can easily do that the
• 17:19
  same way and go full pedal to the metal and and and just work
• 17:24
  can engulf your life. Do you feel like that's been the
• 17:27
  case for you since you did give up drinking and and those
• 17:31
  activities swapped it with work? I'm definitely wired different.
• 17:36
  Yeah, it's yes, I I mean, they call me a deal junkie because I
• 17:41
  just always want to get the next deal done.
• 17:43
  I always want to do, you know, I always want to do better.
• 17:47
  I always want to do more. And the issue with that is the
• 17:50
  goals always keep rising. You don't ever accomplish.
• 17:53
  And so, yes, I've had to, you know, I would say that and
• 17:55
  that's pretty new for me to start looking at that the last
• 17:57
  four years because I would say my 20s, I was so focused.
• 18:03
  No matter that was my top priority was to become
• 18:07
  successful and also to prove everyone wrong.
• 18:09
  That's something like I want to show you that I could do this.
• 18:13
  Like when I got in real estate, I was one of the youngest people
• 18:15
  in the rooms. I did not know what I was doing
• 18:18
  and people really doubt me. Like this is just the young kid
• 18:21
  in the room. He's just hanging out.
• 18:23
  He'll be gone. And I was like, I'm going to
• 18:24
  show you guys. But then that become, once you
• 18:27
  can prove that, that becomes that addictive feeling or like
• 18:30
  that rush, get a deal done or that rush of proving that you
• 18:34
  can do something that someone doesn't think you can do.
• 18:37
  And I think there's a really good trace to have, But you do
• 18:39
  need to make sure that that's not what drives your whole life.
• 18:43
  Because you know, what's important is family.
• 18:45
  What's important is health. But it's really hard to get away
• 18:49
  from that rush. And it's a it's a struggle for
• 18:51
  me every day. Yeah.
• 18:53
  Like I wake up and I want to go. I want to accomplish something.
• 18:56
  I want to hunt. I want to kill.
• 18:57
  I want to to get that deal done. Yeah, I always say like a bad
• 19:02
  day for me would be sitting on the beach alone with no stiff
• 19:05
  like stimulation, no like book or friends or social or work or
• 19:08
  anything like that and just have to sit there with myself, you
• 19:11
  know, bored for however amount of time because I'm a deal
• 19:15
  junkie too and I'm always wanting to do the next thing.
• 19:17
  And that's what the book Relentless is about by Tim
• 19:19
  Grover as he talks about, you know, Kobe Bryant and Michael
• 19:23
  Jordan and these people that they're like, you've already
• 19:25
  won. Why are you still going?
• 19:27
  Why are you still on the court non-stop practicing like a
• 19:30
  beyond anybody else, like you're already the best, you've already
• 19:32
  won, you're already the greatest.
• 19:34
  And it's that relentless pursuit of it never being enough.
• 19:38
  And it's like we usually people who achieve something great.
• 19:42
  They you get that dopamine hit that high, like right when you
• 19:45
  make the accomplishment or when you close the deal or when you
• 19:47
  get the check or when you whatever you're doing right.
• 19:50
  And then it's is usually followed by like anxiety of OK,
• 19:54
  now what's next? Now I have to set a bigger goal.
• 19:56
  Now I have to go do the next deal, the next thing, the next
• 19:59
  book, the next syndication, the next whatever.
• 20:02
  And it always has to get bigger and bigger, which can just bring
• 20:04
  more, you know, if you're not careful, it can bring more
• 20:09
  emptiness, you know, in that pursuit.
• 20:11
  And so it's definitely a fine line of.
• 20:14
  Not having your accomplishments be your identity or your
• 20:18
  addiction, but just being something that you do versus who
• 20:21
  you are. And that's something that I'm
• 20:23
  trying to figure out right now too, is like, who would I be
• 20:26
  without my accolades, right? Or without my business or my
• 20:29
  production or my money or my looks or G Wagon or whatever,
• 20:34
  like all the things that I've built to become.
• 20:38
  Is that where my self worth is coming from?
• 20:40
  And is that where where my identity lies?
• 20:44
  And is that ever going to actually be fulfilling?
• 20:47
  And is it ever actually going to be enough?
• 20:49
  Because it's always like, you know, why am I always just
• 20:53
  setting a bigger goal? Like why did why did I set the
• 20:55
  goal that I'm going to be a billionaire?
• 20:56
  Like where where does that even come from?
• 20:58
  You know, And someone because I want sounds good.
• 21:00
  Yeah, I know it sounds fun. And I'm like, well, you know,
• 21:03
  the the more money I have, the big, the greater the impact I
• 21:05
  can have. And I I also get a dopamine hit
• 21:08
  from helping other people, like immensely.
• 21:10
  That's probably the biggest dopamine hit I get these days
• 21:14
  and it's but I think it was my therapist or coach or something,
• 21:19
  someone challenged me that that's not necessarily true.
• 21:24
  Like conversations like this don't cost a lot of money.
• 21:27
  And if you're so consumed in your work and you aren't showing
• 21:30
  up your best and being able to impact people in another way,
• 21:34
  that's not necessarily financial like that.
• 21:36
  That could just be another escape, an excuse to keep
• 21:40
  grabbing onto something to try to fulfill you that is kind of
• 21:44
  outside of yourself. Yeah.
• 21:46
  And I think, you know, part of that is when you're you, you are
• 21:49
  raised in a different household where you want the attention.
• 21:52
  But you know, you like, you know, for me, like as a kid,
• 21:56
  like I would get praise if I accomplished something or did
• 21:59
  like it was like, did I work hard?
• 22:01
  Did I get the task done? That was really the only time.
• 22:04
  And, and so we get wired to go, OK, well, we want to, we want to
• 22:09
  feel important, right? We want to, you know, when you
• 22:13
  help someone, they're thankful and you feel good about it,
• 22:17
  right? So it's a little selfish.
• 22:19
  And those are, there's kind of a fine line there too.
• 22:22
  Like where is what it can turn you into is, you know, a people
• 22:25
  pleaser and you can get very codependent on praise and
• 22:31
  helping other people and and you tie yourself worth to whether
• 22:36
  someone thinks you help them or not.
• 22:38
  And but there is a power behind that too.
• 22:41
  And you know, when I got sober, I went through a 12 step
• 22:44
  program. And part of that is to get out
• 22:46
  of self right for us to get out of goals and chasing what we
• 22:51
  want or addiction, you have to be of service to other people.
• 22:55
  You know, don't worry about you get rid of that selfishness and
• 22:57
  worry about someone else. And that was one of the best
• 23:00
  things I did in life was in my early 20s, helping younger
• 23:06
  people get sober, taking them to rehab centers, taking them to
• 23:10
  detox centers, go into meetings with them, helping them get out
• 23:13
  of that, that, you know, that terrible loop that you're in.
• 23:19
  And, and I think it's important because it builds character, but
• 23:22
  then it can also go the other way where you become, you're now
• 23:25
  focused on building success and helping other people.
• 23:28
  And then all of a sudden your family, your lifestyle,
• 23:30
  everything out, your own personal health starts going
• 23:33
  down because you're more focused on helping other people.
• 23:36
  And that's something I've had to learn how to balance because our
• 23:40
  success in business has been because we pay it for all the
• 23:44
  time. Like we are deal junkies, we are
• 23:47
  hard, we grind, we get deals done, but we don't step on
• 23:50
  people. We're competitive, but we always
• 23:53
  want to do the right thing. We always want to operate with
• 23:56
  integrity. And part of that is taking care
• 24:00
  of our clients. And I think the way I think the
• 24:03
  reason our business has been so successful is because we are so
• 24:06
  hyper focused on the client success, not ours.
• 24:10
  But that's where you can start to erode yourself as well.
• 24:14
  And so it's like there's this balance, like helping people and
• 24:17
  being of service is one of the best traits you can have, but
• 24:19
  you have to also make sure that you're helping yourself and
• 24:21
  looking out for yourself. Because all of a sudden, you
• 24:25
  know, if I'm focused on my clients all day long, then
• 24:27
  that's taken away from family time, it's taken away from
• 24:30
  health time, it's taken away from mental health too.
• 24:33
  You know, I don't have time to sit down and read books because
• 24:35
  I'm focused on everyone else's problems.
• 24:37
  But it's like, once you fix that problem, you feel good about
• 24:39
  yourself. You're like, I do this to help
• 24:41
  that person, but you want to look at, are you doing it to
• 24:44
  really help them? Are you doing it selfishly so
• 24:45
  you can feel good? And if you're doing it just to
• 24:48
  feel good, that's where the problem can lie.
• 24:51
  Yeah, that's what I have to be careful too because I'm a people
• 24:53
  pleaser. You know, I've always found had
• 24:55
  low self worth and found my like my validation through other
• 25:01
  people approving of me, you know, so I that's where I find
• 25:05
  my dopamine hits is from other people being like, oh, you
• 25:08
  helped me or you did good for me or thank you so much or you're
• 25:11
  the best or whatever. And it's all external validation
• 25:15
  and not because I don't, I lack it for myself, you know, so I'm
• 25:18
  seeking it out externally. So it's, it's always a battle
• 25:21
  like to really be in tune and connected and aware of like
• 25:26
  what, where are your intentions coming from?
• 25:28
  And are they ultimately healthy for you and for your family and
• 25:32
  for your life? Or is it disguised as as healthy
• 25:37
  because it's, you know, I'm serving other people or I'm
• 25:41
  impacting the world or whatever. So I think it's just making sure
• 25:44
  that we can stay in tune with that and and make sure it's
• 25:48
  balanced. Yeah.
• 25:49
  And it's about like creating the solution right for someone.
• 25:52
  And there's the balance. I mean, you're at where you're
• 25:56
  at because because we're wired that way.
• 25:59
  And I think what we all find out young entrepreneurs is like
• 26:02
  we're wired that way and it allows us to excel above some of
• 26:06
  our peers because we're not really just focused on the money
• 26:10
  we're not with that's the by product of that, the success.
• 26:13
  But we're focused on the solution because we want also we
• 26:15
  want the people to do approve of us, not just the solution.
• 26:19
  And because we can do that and we're so hyper focused on
• 26:22
  approval and solutions, it really does create solutions.
• 26:26
  And it gives any type of client the highest level of experience,
• 26:29
  highest level of treatment, which that's why we grow as
• 26:34
  salespeople, as investors, because we are focused on it.
• 26:38
  But it can get unhealthy sometimes.
• 26:40
  You know, I think my whole success in life was built on
• 26:44
  solutions and solving them for other people.
• 26:48
  And by doing that, it got me a lot of sales volume and a lot of
• 26:51
  transaction. I mean, we're flipping.
• 26:52
  I got to create the solution somehow.
• 26:54
  And you know, but I, I remember that was the big jumping off
• 26:58
  point in my real estate career. You know, I, I started when I
• 27:00
  was senior in college and I was going out and knocking on
• 27:04
  foreclosure doors. You know, I just took it to
• 27:06
  learn sales and I was absolutely terrible at it.
• 27:10
  Like 9-10 months, I made $0.00 knocking on doors, people
• 27:15
  yelling at me. I didn't know what I was doing.
• 27:17
  I was trying to be the sales guy that trained me for three days
• 27:23
  who was more of like a high energy sales guy.
• 27:25
  So I was trying to act like him at the door because I already
• 27:28
  felt like I was insignificant. I was too young, I didn't know
• 27:32
  what I was doing. Why would these people want to
• 27:33
  talk to me? And I went in with that attitude
• 27:36
  and I got beat up at the door for 10 months.
• 27:38
  And then I remember I was at this jumping off point, whether
• 27:41
  I was going to quit the business and go into medical device sales
• 27:44
  when I graduated, or I was going to hang in there for another 90
• 27:48
  days and just see if I could figured this out.
• 27:52
  And it came down to two things by really is what turned on the
• 27:55
  accelerator. It was a teaching myself self
• 27:58
  knowledge, understanding what I was trying to provide and then
• 28:01
  focusing on the solution for that person rather than trying
• 28:05
  to buy their house. And that's the powerful thing
• 28:09
  about this. This trades, there's pros and
• 28:10
  cons. By creating the solution.
• 28:12
  It was five times more work, maybe even 10 times more work
• 28:17
  than just going out and buying their home.
• 28:20
  Because you know, back then we would put people in foreclosure,
• 28:22
  put them in credit repair, find them a new home to live in, get
• 28:26
  them in a rent to own so they can have a home ownership at
• 28:28
  that time. I would sit there for months
• 28:31
  trying to help them try to figure out how to keep their
• 28:33
  house with payment plans. And I really became the backup
• 28:36
  option for for sellers. But then when it didn't go the
• 28:38
  right way, they would call me first.
• 28:40
  But by doing this, it exploded my career, but it also fulfilled
• 28:44
  me. Like I was actually making a
• 28:46
  difference rather than just going out and trying to make
• 28:48
  money on people in a bad situation.
• 28:50
  And when I implemented that into my business and really focused
• 28:54
  on that and no one in the whole office was doing this.
• 28:57
  I went from doing 0 deals in 10 months to all of a sudden I did
• 29:00
  one deal and then it was 2 deals.
• 29:01
  And then I was doing 5 deals. And then I was kicking every
• 29:03
  guy's sit. I was kicking every sales guy's
• 29:06
  butt in the office for volume. And we were doing 7-8 deals a
• 29:08
  month. And this is back when we were
• 29:10
  just knocking doors. There was no call centers, there
• 29:13
  was no mailing. There was, it was just if you
• 29:16
  wanted a deal, you were going to get in your car, you were going
• 29:18
  to bang doors and do it for yourself.
• 29:21
  And it was matter of whether you wanted to work hard or not.
• 29:24
  And but it exploded by focusing on the solution.
• 29:30
  And so it is a pro and a con and there's a balance though.
• 29:33
  But then it became like addicted to getting deals done and
• 29:37
  helping people. And all of a sudden I went from,
• 29:40
  you know, I was always working a lot, but then I would get my car
• 29:42
  like 7/30, 8:00 in the morning and I wouldn't come home until
• 29:46
  like midnight, just working. And I did that relentlessly 5-6
• 29:52
  days a week. And it went on like that for
• 29:55
  till 2008. Yeah.
• 29:57
  It was like, I mean, and that was successful.
• 30:00
  But then you then you start to forget about the other part of
• 30:03
  your life over here. And it felt good.
• 30:06
  But you know, there's, there's, there's always consequences to
• 30:08
  that, too. Yeah, there's.
• 30:10
  There's the price freedom, yeah, yeah.
• 30:12
  And So what one question, what gave you that switch to realize
• 30:16
  like what I'm doing isn't working for this 10 months and
• 30:19
  then allowed you or caused you to decide on going at more of a
• 30:23
  solutions based approach and learning about those solutions
• 30:26
  and then presenting with the clients Like you have a certain
• 30:28
  mentor or coach or book or did it just kind of click for you?
• 30:31
  It was, you know, it's funny. So when I got in, I literally
• 30:37
  took the job just to learn sales.
• 30:39
  So senior college, I had already interned for an elevator
• 30:43
  salesman. Most phenomenal salesperson is
• 30:46
  Mickey Smith. He's not here anymore, but he
• 30:47
  was the most phenomenal salesperson I have ever met my
• 30:50
  life. He can like curse at his clients
• 30:53
  and then they'd be laughing and he was just a one-of-a-kind guy.
• 30:57
  And senior year he switched from elevators into medical devices.
• 31:02
  Like, hey, when you get done, I really liked working with you.
• 31:04
  You have initiative, you work hard, come find me and I'll get
• 31:07
  you a job. And so I was like, OK, I want
• 31:09
  now I'm going to sharpen my skills.
• 31:11
  I'm going to show up and be good.
• 31:12
  So my business partner, who's my business partner today, I was
• 31:15
  living with him. He's my roommate.
• 31:17
  He was selling cars. He sold a car to a how an
• 31:21
  investment company and they go, hey, you should come work for
• 31:23
  us. And it's about finding
• 31:24
  foreclosures. And so he came home.
• 31:28
  He's like, hey, I'm going to go take this job where I'm knock on
• 31:29
  doors and do real estate. I was like, well, that's good
• 31:32
  sales experience. I should do that.
• 31:34
  And so I took this job just based on sales experience and
• 31:38
  then I had no experience in real estate.
• 31:40
  I don't know what HUD was. I don't know what comping was.
• 31:43
  It was just more about get us the opportunity and then send
• 31:46
  someone out to close the deal. So I just got my car and was
• 31:51
  practicing and it was, you know, especially for people like us,
• 31:54
  if we like to please people like to feel accepted.
• 31:58
  Going to a door and getting screamed at you don't feel good
• 32:01
  about yourself. And and so at the end of that
• 32:04
  ten months, I got to graduation, I had a job offer that was going
• 32:07
  to pay me over 100 grand a year in that 2006.
• 32:10
  That was a ton of money. I mean, I mean, back then, if
• 32:14
  someone would have told me I could have made 100 grand a year
• 32:16
  for the rest of my life if I signed this, I probably would
• 32:19
  have signed it because it was just a lot of money.
• 32:24
  But it was also, I think part of the reason is I felt rejected.
• 32:27
  And I was like, I can't give up. And I remember I had two really
• 32:31
  important conversations. One was with who my wife is
• 32:34
  today. She was my girlfriend.
• 32:35
  And I was like, I'm going to switch.
• 32:36
  I need to get more stable. And she's like, you've been
• 32:39
  doing this for 10 months. You have any?
• 32:40
  Do you really want to give up now?
• 32:42
  So I think you should give it 60 days, which is not typically
• 32:44
  her, her Like she would be like, yeah, take the stable job.
• 32:49
  And so I go, OK, let me think about this.
• 32:51
  And then the next person I call was my mom.
• 32:54
  And I called her and I was like, I'm terrible at this job.
• 32:57
  It's not going well. And she's like, well, what are
• 32:59
  you saying? I'm like, I go out there, I'm
• 33:01
  trying to do what everyone else is doing.
• 33:02
  And she goes, well, Jimmy, just be yourself.
• 33:07
  Like you don't need to be someone else.
• 33:08
  Just be yourself. And now some reason the light
• 33:12
  bulb turned on right there. I'm like, yeah, I don't need to
• 33:14
  talk like how these guys talk. I don't need to be this person.
• 33:17
  I need to be me. And at this point, I was already
• 33:21
  sober. I was helping people all the
• 33:23
  time. I could be of service.
• 33:26
  And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go out there
• 33:27
  with the the mission to help people rather than to make
• 33:30
  money. And that was the biggest
• 33:34
  difference. And so that was like my first
• 33:35
  rock bottom in my career was I was terrible.
• 33:39
  I lost money from working. It'd been 10 months.
• 33:41
  I felt rejected. I felt like this was hopeless.
• 33:44
  I was too young, didn't know enough.
• 33:46
  I gave all the reasons of why I wasn't being successful, but
• 33:50
  those are outside things. The inside thing is I didn't sit
• 33:53
  down and do the work to train myself.
• 33:56
  So I started studying everything about foreclosures, solutions
• 33:59
  for people, what it meant, time frames, what their options were,
• 34:03
  and I really educated myself. Then it came down to going, OK,
• 34:08
  well, now if I'm just going to be a service, the conversations
• 34:10
  go differently. And so it went from like this
• 34:13
  awkward conversation, just say, Hey, I'm so and so I want to
• 34:16
  about talk to you about your mortgage.
• 34:18
  And the conversation go pretty not great, but I would adapt and
• 34:22
  go, no, no, no, I'm here to kind of like help.
• 34:25
  And so I would sit down for hours.
• 34:27
  And this is something salespeople I think overlooked.
• 34:30
  They always want to get the sale done, but you got to put it in
• 34:33
  the work and you got to build that connection with somebody.
• 34:36
  And so I would sit there for hours helping them with loan
• 34:39
  modifications, giving them different tips to see if they
• 34:42
  could tap into their formal case, whatever we could do to
• 34:45
  fix their house because that's what they wanted to do.
• 34:47
  Even though I would make $0.00 if they did by switching to a
• 34:52
  solutions and just being me. That's what really turned things
• 34:57
  around because the conversations went different that that people
• 35:01
  could feel it. When you're being you, when
• 35:04
  you're authentic, that's where people want to connect with.
• 35:07
  Like if you're a robot and awkward and you don't, you feel
• 35:11
  like if someone feels like you're just trying to get
• 35:13
  something from them, no one wants to do business with you.
• 35:15
  I don't want to do business with people like that.
• 35:17
  If I feel like someone's trying to take from me the whole time,
• 35:19
  I'm like get away from me. And, and so it's about building
• 35:22
  the connection and that was the big difference.
• 35:24
  So just thank you, Mom, Be myself.
• 35:26
  So be yourself, right? You don't need to be someone
• 35:29
  else. You can take advice from people.
• 35:32
  You can read books. You can take that as guidance
• 35:35
  and give you hints to look internally or not.
• 35:38
  But be you and build what you want to do around you, not what
• 35:41
  someone else is doing. Yeah.
• 35:43
  Yeah, I think the authenticity and just the the givers gain and
• 35:47
  like what's in it for them, you know, and that's how I always
• 35:50
  think is be I guess naturally because I'm a people pleaser and
• 35:53
  I find myself worth it pleasing. Like that's how I started all my
• 35:56
  businesses and that's how I started sales.
• 35:57
  I did timeshare sales and you know, they it was great sales
• 36:01
  training. It was the only sales training I
• 36:03
  had had and they gave me like during sales training, they give
• 36:07
  me the the trash tour that they know won't buy.
• 36:09
  You know, it's like the stereotyped couple family that's
• 36:14
  there for a free thing and they're ones that never buy like
• 36:17
  per demographic data and stuff like that.
• 36:19
  And it was my first two wherever, and it was just a
• 36:21
  practice. And I sold them.
• 36:23
  And it was the bravers running. They're like, what the heck?
• 36:25
  How did you do that? Like, this is like the trash
• 36:26
  doer that nobody would ever buy. And it was just because I was
• 36:29
  just myself and just wanted to help them.
• 36:30
  And I wasn't trying to sell them.
• 36:32
  I was just literally built the like, built the trust with them
• 36:35
  and the relationship with them. And I'm just genuinely
• 36:37
  interested in other people. And I'm genuinely interested in
• 36:40
  helping them. And then the money just comes as
• 36:42
  a byproduct, as you said. And yeah, I think so many people
• 36:45
  try to just force it. They try to be somebody.
• 36:48
  They try to be like the top salesman or the top real estate
• 36:51
  investor or do you know, fit themselves into this box.
• 36:53
  And then it just, it's like, think about what you would want.
• 36:57
  If you get that, that salesperson, you're never going
• 36:59
  to build a relationship with them or trust them or do
• 37:00
  business with them either. So but I want to shift gears
• 37:04
  into you like you, what you have built is basically what I've
• 37:10
  always dreamed of building a you have all of these different
• 37:14
  businesses that are vertically integrated.
• 37:16
  You know, real estate is your your industry, but you have the
• 37:21
  hard money lending, you have the multi family syndication, you
• 37:23
  have the fix and flipping, you have the brokerage, you have the
• 37:26
  education, you have all of these things vertically integrated.
• 37:29
  So what advice would you give to somebody who is, you know, maybe
• 37:33
  has their business, they're doing well, but they really want
• 37:35
  to start to grow and scale into maybe some different
• 37:40
  integrations of that business. So like, for instance, speaking
• 37:44
  selfishly for myself, I have a real estate brokerage, I have a
• 37:47
  private money lending company. I have a portfolio of real
• 37:50
  estate assets. I just started a fund for my
• 37:53
  lending company. I've been asked a bunch of
• 37:56
  people to start a coaching program and I get very
• 37:59
  overwhelmed with like, what do I focus in one thing?
• 38:03
  Because a lot of people will tell you like only do one thing.
• 38:05
  You can't be successful at it all.
• 38:07
  But then I see Someone Like You who has done it all and built it
• 38:09
  all. So like what were the steps that
• 38:11
  you took in the series of events that you took to, you know, in
• 38:16
  the beginning focus and then start to scale and start to
• 38:19
  build a team and start to expand into these other verticals of
• 38:24
  your industry. And then ultimately having, you
• 38:26
  know, you, you guys are doing over 40 million a year in
• 38:29
  revenue and all of these different family real estate
• 38:31
  companies and you just have the one partner and you you have
• 38:34
  massive teams now. So like what, what did that kind
• 38:36
  of look like for you? And what advice would you give
• 38:38
  to people who are looking to grow and scale maybe a couple of
• 38:41
  different vertically integrated companies?
• 38:43
  Yeah, it's, you know, when it comes down to is shutting out
• 38:48
  the noise and don't chase the shiny object because that's what
• 38:54
  we do, right? Like is when we're trying to
• 38:56
  grow our lives and grow our careers, we want to go, OK,
• 38:59
  well, what are where do we want to be?
• 39:01
  Who's doing that? And you know, and then I think
• 39:05
  what happens to a lot of people is they, they see someone
• 39:08
  successful, it's a hot trending thing and they rush to that.
• 39:12
  And then they rushed to the next thing.
• 39:14
  Then they rushed to the next thing and the next thing.
• 39:16
  And the thing that we've done well is we've never looked at
• 39:21
  what other people were doing. We looked at internally of what
• 39:24
  we were doing well and how we can build off that.
• 39:27
  I don't care what anyone else is doing.
• 39:30
  You know, like when I hear people doing massive department
• 39:32
  deal and they're like, why don't you go bigger?
• 39:34
  You're qualified. I'm like, cuz I do what I do and
• 39:36
  I, if this works for us and how we built the businesses was
• 39:42
  always, you know, I think if you're good at something, you
• 39:45
  need to really master that first.
• 39:48
  So like our career started with wholesaling.
• 39:50
  I went up, banked doors, figured out how to create deal flow,
• 39:54
  create income that way. And it went from finding my own
• 39:58
  deals of my own to building a team under me.
• 40:00
  And we became one of the strongest off market teams in
• 40:03
  Washington state and by doing that.
• 40:07
  That created the income. And then some point times you
• 40:09
  can also get settled too where you're like, I'm making money,
• 40:12
  I'm making money. But it's like, well, how do we
• 40:13
  grow? And it's, it was came down to
• 40:17
  coming up with solutions like, OK, what is the next step in the
• 40:20
  deal? What is the next step in the
• 40:22
  transactions? What does the client need or who
• 40:25
  are we working with? And there's a need, how can we
• 40:29
  maximize it by providing a better experience.
• 40:32
  And so when this really, really took shape was in 2008 and
• 40:38
  because prior to that 2000 and five, 2008, I was wholesaler, I
• 40:41
  was good at doing that. We were creating a lot of money.
• 40:44
  And you know, in I went from making no money to making real
• 40:47
  money at that age. You know, that 100 grand a year
• 40:50
  job, I smoked that job like I was making 350 to 450 grand a
• 40:55
  year at 25 years old, which is a ton of money.
• 41:00
  And then I was also a saver. So I'd saved the money and then
• 41:02
  start investing. So I buy 8 rentals during that
• 41:04
  time and then I start flipping as well.
• 41:08
  And so I started flipping condos because it was always, here's
• 41:11
  the step of my career. I got really good at finding a
• 41:13
  deal, but I didn't start flipping until I could systemize
• 41:17
  that. Because what happens is you get
• 41:19
  good at this, then you see people making more money over
• 41:22
  here and you rush over here and then your current cash flow in
• 41:26
  your current business that was really good gets neglected.
• 41:30
  It falls apart and it dissolves. And So what we did is we
• 41:34
  systemized the, the, the wholesaling first to where I
• 41:37
  wasn't at the guy knocking doors anymore.
• 41:39
  I had a team eight guys below me.
• 41:41
  They would get appointments, I would go close them.
• 41:44
  Then I trained closers. And then it was more about
• 41:46
  directing the guys that allowed me then to start flipping
• 41:49
  properties because I freed up some time and growing that way.
• 41:52
  And the wholesaling paid for how I could flip homes.
• 41:56
  And I at that point, 2008, I thought it was invincible.
• 42:00
  I was like, I am just kicking everyone's butt off market.
• 42:03
  I'm flipping deals now. And then what had happened is
• 42:05
  2008 happened. And I had at that point I had
• 42:11
  eight properties. I had like over half $1,000,000
• 42:13
  in equity in these properties. I had over half $1,000,000 in my
• 42:16
  bank. I mean $1,000,000.
• 42:18
  I was like, I got money, you know, like, especially back
• 42:21
  then, it's like if you had $1,000,000, you were rich.
• 42:23
  Yeah. And.
• 42:24
  I mean, it's like what, 4 or 5 million today?
• 42:28
  Yeah, at least yeah. I was like, oh, I got this
• 42:31
  right. And then the one of the biggest
• 42:32
  mistakes that I'd ever learned was well, outside markets and,
• 42:36
  and paying attention to what's going on around you can really
• 42:39
  change things. And so I was just a deal guy.
• 42:41
  We started flipping houses and then 2008 happened and I got
• 42:45
  stuck in the middle of a couple projects and that 500 grand got
• 42:49
  evaporated. The properties that had a half
• 42:52
  $1,000,000 in equity went to negative half $1,000,000 in
• 42:56
  value. It plummeted and I went from
• 43:00
  cash flowing these units to be negative $3500 a month and my
• 43:04
  wholesaling business was drying up because no real estate
• 43:07
  investor wanted to buy anything back then.
• 43:09
  It was like real estate had leprosy and so it was terrible.
• 43:14
  And you know, and I went from thinking I was king in the hill
• 43:17
  to just flat broke and I was in the middle of a market where I
• 43:22
  was drowning. I was there with my business
• 43:24
  partner. I remember, you know, I think
• 43:25
  that the key times in life of where you grow is those hard
• 43:28
  times, right? Like when I was going to quit
• 43:29
  wholesaling, I felt defeated. I felt deflated.
• 43:33
  Time to move on. And then you have to audit
• 43:35
  what's in, you know, by making that change.
• 43:38
  Allow me to grow in 2008. And then in 2008, I was watching
• 43:41
  people that were very successful go bankrupt.
• 43:44
  I was going bankrupt. I was flat broke.
• 43:46
  And I remember sitting there as we had just launched our own
• 43:50
  company. We branched off from our
• 43:52
  previous employer. We are 90 days in.
• 43:54
  We spent a bunch of money on furniture, had a bunch of sales
• 43:56
  guys. Me and my business partner were
• 43:58
  sitting there and we're like, what are we going to do?
• 44:00
  No one will buy anything. And there was all of our money
• 44:04
  was getting lost in our projects.
• 44:06
  I was sitting there and he's like, I don't know what we're
• 44:08
  going to do. And I'm like off the side
• 44:10
  researching pharmaceutical sales job, medical, I'm like, I got to
• 44:13
  get out of this. And then I did that audit of
• 44:16
  going, OK, everybody's quitting right now.
• 44:20
  Like everybody quit in 2008. Very few people do.
• 44:24
  I know that was working then continue to keep going.
• 44:28
  I was going, what if everybody's quitting?
• 44:29
  There's an opportunity here. And then it was about, OK, well,
• 44:32
  how do we scale and grow and build a business because we
• 44:37
  cannot stay in business by just wholesaling.
• 44:40
  And So what we had to do was a not convinced, but make people
• 44:45
  feel more comfortable about real estate because it was not well
• 44:48
  received. And that was about creating
• 44:51
  solutions for client. You know at that time we were
• 44:54
  getting off market deals. We investor clients, it very,
• 44:57
  very small investor clients are still there.
• 44:59
  And it's about well, how do we get them off the fence and
• 45:01
  create that solution. So how we've grown it, all of
• 45:04
  our businesses is just creating the solution to the problem.
• 45:07
  So in 2008, finding a deal wasn't hard.
• 45:09
  You can find a deal anywhere. And so our wholesale business
• 45:12
  could get a lot of opportunities.
• 45:14
  I mean even back then, I remember we would get a deal off
• 45:16
  market and I would go door knock the whole neighborhood to see if
• 45:18
  someone would want to buy. We went from door knocking for
• 45:21
  sellers to door. Knocking for.
• 45:22
  Investors like, hey, do you want to buy a rental down the street?
• 45:24
  Here's why. But it was about no one had the
• 45:27
  money. So how do we create that
• 45:29
  solution? We have the deal, no one could
• 45:32
  buy it. So it that's when we took that
• 45:34
  next step, right? We weren't chasing what everyone
• 45:37
  was doing in 2008 to go make money.
• 45:39
  It was like we have a business, how do we make it better?
• 45:42
  Well, we create a lending company.
• 45:44
  So now people can actually finance these deals and we beg,
• 45:47
  we borrowed, we got our seed money and we were able to start
• 45:50
  lending money on our own deals. So now we had the property and
• 45:55
  we could give the clients the financing to buy it.
• 45:58
  Then it came down to, well, how did they buy this or how did
• 46:03
  they execute the plan because people were really uncomfortable
• 46:07
  with the market coming down. I mean, back when we were
• 46:09
  flipping that market would be worth the house, would be worth
• 46:11
  less by the time we went to sell it than it was when we bought
• 46:13
  it. And so we had to prove the
• 46:17
  concept. And so now we had deal flow, we
• 46:20
  had money, and then we started buying the flips in our own
• 46:23
  inventory to go, OK, well, how do we systemize this?
• 46:26
  So again, not looking for what everyone else is doing because
• 46:29
  in 2008, people are chasing all sorts of different ways to make
• 46:31
  money like loan modifications, all these different things.
• 46:34
  But we're going, OK, we, we know how to get a good deal.
• 46:36
  Now we have the cash because we created our hard money company.
• 46:39
  So now we can get a deal, make money on our money.
• 46:42
  And then it was going, OK, well, how do we scale this?
• 46:44
  Well, we have to teach people and show people that it's safe.
• 46:48
  So we started flipping again, even though we just got
• 46:50
  bankrupted from flipping and it was about finding every
• 46:54
  contractor, putting together these plans.
• 46:56
  And then we flipped probably 10 properties and we showed people
• 47:01
  that this was a recipe for success.
• 47:03
  So we took the risk and we established our flipping
• 47:04
  business. So now we have the deal.
• 47:06
  We had the money, we had a business to, they could flip
• 47:09
  homes, create income, but we also then now had the skill set
• 47:12
  to teach clients how to flip the house.
• 47:15
  Then we started the brokerage with that because part of the
• 47:18
  brokerage was if we source you the deal and you give us the
• 47:21
  listing, we'll help consult you all the way through.
• 47:24
  And So what we were doing is we created in vertically integrated
• 47:28
  business that created solutions for the client.
• 47:31
  Can't find a deal? We got you don't have the money
• 47:33
  for the deal? Here it is.
• 47:37
  Don't have the skill set and it's way too terrifying to buy
• 47:40
  real estate in a crashing market.
• 47:42
  Well, here's our plan. We're going to show you how to
• 47:44
  do it and we're going to help you manage that.
• 47:48
  That then created the brokerage which got us listing.
• 47:50
  So then it became from doing one off market deal that would
• 47:53
  create us back down like 15 grand of revenue to 15 grand of
• 47:57
  revenue to lending them the money, making two points.
• 48:02
  We weren't making any interest spread back then.
• 48:03
  We we make 2 points on that loan.
• 48:05
  So if it's a 200,000 loan, we're making an additional 4 grand.
• 48:08
  So we just create 20% more profit on that deal.
• 48:11
  Then we would get the listing on the back end and by creating
• 48:14
  multiple income streams, it really 3X star profitability in
• 48:20
  a time we really needed it. And we created the profitability
• 48:24
  by creating solutions, not just going to try to do what everyone
• 48:27
  else is doing. And that was really been the key
• 48:32
  factor to us scaling is we never go outside of our box.
• 48:35
  We look at what we're doing well, what will complement our
• 48:40
  business and enhance our clients and experience.
• 48:42
  And if we can enhance the experience, we're going to make
• 48:45
  more money. We're not just going to make
• 48:46
  money because we deserve it. We're providing the service.
• 48:50
  And so now it's gone from lending money to the brokerage
• 48:53
  to, you know, then we started our development company because
• 48:59
  now we had the skill set to flip a lot of houses.
• 49:02
  I mean, we started flipping 100 to 200 homes at a time.
• 49:05
  Like at one point I was running over 100 construction projects
• 49:09
  in 2010 and 11. And so by doing this, we had
• 49:13
  deal flow, we had money, we had clients, our flipping business
• 49:16
  started growing because we had more revenue coming in.
• 49:18
  We'd take the income from our fee business, put it into our
• 49:21
  flip business, which was making us 50% returns and we reinvest,
• 49:25
  reinvest and it compounded. Then once we had more money, we
• 49:29
  started building homes because we wanted bigger projects.
• 49:33
  And then from building homes that allowed me as a brokerage
• 49:35
  then to start selling dirt, providing the dirt, getting more
• 49:39
  list backs and it grew an engine or you know, typically we have
• 49:42
  over 100 million to 150 million in secured list backs.
• 49:46
  We have over $100 million in hard money loans going on at
• 49:49
  that time. And we're typically doing about
• 49:51
  15 to 20 deals a month with investor clients.
• 49:54
  And, but it was just about creating that solution all the
• 49:58
  way through. And then the real problem is you
• 50:01
  start making so much money, you don't know what to do with it.
• 50:03
  You either spend it irrationally and irresponsibly or you grow.
• 50:06
  And and that was our thing is we always reinvest our profits.
• 50:10
  At least 20 to 25% of every dollar we made went back in the
• 50:14
  holdings and that's where the wealth was made.
• 50:17
  And because then we started building out portfolio and
• 50:20
  stabilizing and showing returns, we now had proof.
• 50:25
  That proof led to syndicating. And so every step along the way
• 50:31
  we went from flipping houses to building.
• 50:33
  Then we started buying rental properties.
• 50:35
  We were able to buy really good rental deals because we have the
• 50:37
  flipping skill set. And so every piece of the
• 50:40
  business has helped of all of us have sharpen us, you know, it's
• 50:44
  always about sharpening that blade.
• 50:46
  And so I think people's blades get dull when they get
• 50:49
  distracted. What's this guy doing over here?
• 50:51
  I don't care. Good for him.
• 50:53
  I'm happy for him. He's doing well, but if it's
• 50:56
  going to be way outside my box, that's going to distract things,
• 50:59
  that's going to make me less profitable here and that
• 51:01
  prevents growth. Yep, not getting distracted by
• 51:04
  the woman in the red dress, as Alex Hermosi says.
• 51:07
  Yes, yeah, who cares about the red?
• 51:08
  Dress. Yeah.
• 51:09
  Yeah. What?
• 51:10
  Dress are you wearing? Exactly, I love that I get
• 51:13
  goosebumps. Just let's see you tell that
• 51:14
  story. And so you, so then you got into
• 51:17
  syndicating and did you go, did you start syndicating like
• 51:21
  single family or multi? Do you then get into multi
• 51:23
  family? So we own a lot of buildings on
• 51:25
  our own. I mean, we do try to keep as
• 51:26
  much equity as we can. And you know, but what that did
• 51:30
  is that prevented us, you know, because when you start buying
• 51:32
  more and more units, bigger sites, you got to have more
• 51:35
  capital. And we also can make very high
• 51:38
  returns with our capital. You know, like typically I can
• 51:41
  make 35 to 50% returns with flipping a home.
• 51:46
  I can also lend it to make 12 to 15%, if not more, maybe even
• 51:52
  2025%. And so when you have this cash,
• 51:54
  you want to audit your cash. So this is your gunpowder for
• 51:56
  growth. And if I'm going to start buying
• 52:00
  bigger and bigger multi family buildings, that's going to
• 52:02
  require cash, which is going to prevent my growth over here.
• 52:05
  So it's about how do we continue to buy bigger stuff without
• 52:08
  preventing growth? And again, don't go to that
• 52:10
  shiny object. If everyone's doing
• 52:12
  syndications, big deals now it's going, we have the skill set, we
• 52:17
  have the knowledge, we have the teams.
• 52:20
  How do we solve that? Because if we take this cash
• 52:22
  over here, we're going to be losing 100 grand a month or
• 52:25
  whatever it is on returns. And so we had started building
• 52:29
  out our portfolio. We probably got up to about, you
• 52:32
  know, and we're not huge syndicators like, you know, I
• 52:34
  would say 50, about 65% of our portfolio is owned by myself and
• 52:39
  my partner. The syndication is because we
• 52:42
  have the skill set to get really good deals that other people
• 52:45
  can't take advantage of and we wanted to be able to take
• 52:48
  advantage of it. So we're not online raising a
• 52:51
  ton of like we're not going into other markets to work deals.
• 52:55
  We buy and syndicate properties that most people would tell you
• 52:58
  not to do because we buy 30 to 50 unit buildings.
• 53:02
  That is the sweet spot in Seattle.
• 53:03
  Even though everyone says go hundred 200, that's where you
• 53:05
  make the money. We make money on that and we
• 53:08
  know our lane because I like to play in no man's land.
• 53:12
  Big hedge funds, big investors don't buy 30 to 50 because it's
• 53:14
  a pain in the butt. Small mom and pops don't buy 30
• 53:17
  to 50 because you run out of gunpowder, you can't buy it.
• 53:20
  And so there's no man's land and we get the best possible deals
• 53:22
  there. And so we started syndicating to
• 53:24
  solve the problem, which was we have the skill set to get really
• 53:28
  good properties in very good locations that we can create
• 53:31
  huge equity returns by construction plans that we learn
• 53:35
  from flipping and developing. And if we want to be able to do
• 53:39
  those deals, we start got in to bring in our investor partners.
• 53:43
  And part of it also was solving a problem for some of our
• 53:46
  investors. A lot of our investors did
• 53:47
  really well from 2008 to 2015 and they made a lot of money
• 53:51
  with us. They also want to become passive
• 53:55
  and they still wanted to invest with us.
• 53:57
  They still wanted to invest in real estate, but they didn't
• 54:00
  want to flip anymore. They don't want to own a bunch
• 54:02
  more rentals because they don't want those phone calls.
• 54:05
  And so we had this need from our investors too going, hey, we
• 54:09
  want more passive and so we're able by syndicating now we can
• 54:14
  buy units, not jeopardize what we're doing and solve the
• 54:17
  clients problem again. And so again, it was just that
• 54:21
  natural step for us. What's the growth?
• 54:24
  It allows us to double our doors, it allows us to get into
• 54:28
  big deals to create huge. I mean a lot of these, these 30
• 54:32
  to 50 units, we're creating 2 to $3,000,000 in equity by timer
• 54:35
  stabilized like real equity, not inflated equity.
• 54:38
  And so we get to share in that and also solve the problem for
• 54:44
  the client because it wasn't just about what we want to do is
• 54:46
  what what our clients want to do.
• 54:48
  And then we created that. And so, you know, typically we
• 54:50
  do, I would say five to seven deals a year with that, you
• 54:54
  know, average purchase price is 4 to 6,000,000.
• 54:56
  We put a couple million into construction and then we'll pick
• 54:59
  up at least 2530%. I mean, and right now is the
• 55:03
  time to be doing that business because that no man's land
• 55:05
  becomes a graveyard and that's where you can you can get some
• 55:08
  really good deals. That's so awesome.
• 55:11
  I love it. And so what's next for you?
• 55:13
  Like so tell tell me a little bit about the book and the show
• 55:16
  that you have coming out next season.
• 55:18
  I don't know if you're if you're able to talk about it or not,
• 55:19
  but. I can't talk about too much, but
• 55:21
  we get I can hit around what it is.
• 55:23
  OK, Yeah. It's, you know, it's so one
• 55:27
  thing I've learned is by doing good business, it's gotten
• 55:29
  eyeballs on us. And you know, I've always been a
• 55:31
  person just focuses on my work, focus on the business.
• 55:35
  And you know, it's allowed me some really cool experiences by,
• 55:38
  you know, doing good work. People notice and being a good
• 55:42
  person, people notice. And so, you know, I think it was
• 55:46
  like 2016, Bigger Pockets invited me to come on.
• 55:50
  I talked to, you know, I had any interview.
• 55:51
  We talked about this a little bit.
• 55:52
  I didn't even know what Bigger Pockets was I.
• 55:54
  Love that. That's so funny, I.
• 55:56
  Didn't even know what a podcast was.
• 55:57
  I did like a podcast. I'm like, what's a podcast?
• 55:59
  It's on TV And they're like, no, you listen to it.
• 56:01
  And I'm like, people listen to these things and it kind of like
• 56:06
  blew my mind. But I got on this, this podcast
• 56:08
  and I just told my story and it, it seemed to do well.
• 56:10
  And they invited me back to do some YouTube videos and become a
• 56:15
  help Co host on their on with the on the market.
• 56:19
  And again, these were all new things to me.
• 56:20
  I was like, well, why am I doing this?
• 56:23
  And I think I was getting to a point in my career where I do
• 56:25
  want to build more passive income streams because I'm very
• 56:29
  active. I work a lot of hours and, you
• 56:33
  know, by being on the podcast, they convinced me to write a
• 56:35
  book. And, you know, part of it is I
• 56:38
  know, you know, and so when they were talking about writing this
• 56:41
  book, we do so many things we can.
• 56:43
  I can write a lot of books about a lot of different things that
• 56:45
  we've done. And I was really pushing them
• 56:48
  for the flipping book, even though they were kind of looking
• 56:50
  for maybe something else. And the reason I'm so passionate
• 56:53
  about flipping because flipping kind of gets a bad rap.
• 56:57
  These flippers, they just want to make money and you almost get
• 57:02
  treated like the redheaded stepchild of the industry.
• 57:04
  Yeah, right. Wholesaling, yeah.
• 57:06
  And the thing about flipping, I'm passionate about it is it
• 57:11
  gives you do skill set to build any type of investment business
• 57:17
  and it gives us the skill set to do anything that all of our our
• 57:20
  company's success is built off that skill set.
• 57:24
  We're great hard money lenders. We've never lost principal
• 57:26
  alone. Why?
• 57:27
  Because we understand the asset, we know how to fix it if
• 57:29
  something goes wrong and we can always protect our investors.
• 57:32
  We're great syndicators because we can get our construction done
• 57:34
  substantially less than what other competitive buyers can do
• 57:39
  it for. And that all came from flipping,
• 57:41
  creating the plan, looking at an asset, underwriting it,
• 57:45
  understanding the value to what is highest and best use.
• 57:47
  And sometimes that doesn't mean that it's worth the most.
• 57:51
  It is what is the most profitable.
• 57:53
  You know, when you're flipping home doesn't mean you do
• 57:54
  everything you do the plan that makes you the most amount of
• 57:57
  money, which requires you to control costs, create the right
• 58:01
  construction plan because remodeling is hard.
• 58:04
  And the thing that I know is this where we live in now after
• 58:09
  the pandemic is very expensive. It's very hard to get to
• 58:12
  financial freedom. And if you want to grow, you
• 58:15
  have to be able to invent returns because you can't take
• 58:21
  5% returns and be OK. You cannot take 8% returns and
• 58:25
  be OK. It is way too expensive.
• 58:28
  And so flipping does is it allows you to maximize any kind
• 58:32
  of deal with leverage a construction plan and what is
• 58:36
  highest and best use and it will expedite your growth.
• 58:40
  Like I can go buy an apartment building, no one can buy because
• 58:42
  we can cut the cost down by 50%, create the right plan.
• 58:45
  And I would create 2 to $3,000,000 in equity that
• 58:48
  someone's going to think they're going to create 500 grand in
• 58:50
  equity. And if I can create five times
• 58:52
  more equity than them, I can cut the line to financial freedom.
• 58:55
  And you need to start running right now because it the world
• 58:58
  is expensive, it's fast and you're falling behind.
• 59:01
  And so that's why I wanted to do the flipping framework, which is
• 59:04
  Publix by Bigger Pockets, because it teaches people not
• 59:07
  only how to source a deal to finance the deal, but then
• 59:11
  create the plan because everyone wants to go buy the deal.
• 59:14
  You know, the biggest lie in real estate is the money is made
• 59:17
  on the buy. I'm a firm believer that you
• 59:20
  need to get a good buy, but a good buy to me is going to be
• 59:23
  different than a goodbye to you. And if you can create more plans
• 59:28
  and, and create more blueprints for revenue and, and invent more
• 59:31
  returns, I can do 10 times more deals than most people, which
• 59:35
  will allow me to grow substantially faster.
• 59:38
  And so the book covers like how to finance the deal, how to, how
• 59:41
  to source it, how to vet the right team to allow you to grow
• 59:46
  because you can't do it all on your own.
• 59:48
  And then how to create that plan for highest and best use.
• 59:51
  And then how to use that money to grow, not go buy boats, not
• 59:55
  go buy watches, not go buy. And we all like the nice things,
• 59:59
  but. Invest it so the nice things can
• 1:00:01
  pay for these things. The assets pay for it the.
• 1:00:03
  Assets pay for it. My lifestyle today is 100% paid
• 1:00:06
  for. Like no matter I could quit
• 1:00:08
  working today and the money I make from my private money
• 1:00:11
  lending business will pay for my lifestyle.
• 1:00:13
  I do not need to work anymore. Now I have a bigger goal of
• 1:00:16
  where I want to get to, but I can go buy what I want based on
• 1:00:21
  the interest. And so it's about how do you
• 1:00:23
  maximize the plans so you can cut the line to financial
• 1:00:26
  freedom and then reinvest it. And so it really, you know, I
• 1:00:31
  want it. I think it's important that
• 1:00:32
  investors don't, they need to build a business and they need
• 1:00:35
  to look, they need to learn how to maximize the deal rather than
• 1:00:38
  just go buy the deal. And, and so I was very
• 1:00:42
  passionate about it. They kept asking me bigger
• 1:00:44
  boxes, ask me to write a book. I'm like, this is what I want to
• 1:00:46
  write. And so it's releasing soon.
• 1:00:49
  And when do? You know when.
• 1:00:52
  I do. I do know.
• 1:00:54
  Hold on. I'm.
• 1:00:54
  Going to be I'm going to buy can I?
• 1:00:55
  Is there a pre sale list? There is a pre sale list.
• 1:00:58
  All right, I'm. Going to order it on Amazon.
• 1:01:00
  Let me tell you, this is how much I know about this, but it's
• 1:01:05
  all about, you know, the I wanted it to be, you know,
• 1:01:08
  there's everyone gives themselves that objections like
• 1:01:11
  it's too hard. It's there's so many different
• 1:01:14
  ways that you can flip and learn like you don't have to.
• 1:01:16
  You can be a nine to five ambassador and partner with the
• 1:01:19
  flipper and make huge returns. You can make 20.
• 1:01:22
  Like if I make 4050% on my money and you partner with me and you
• 1:01:25
  make half of that, that's 25% you can make on your money.
• 1:01:28
  Yeah. And so it comes out November
• 1:01:30
  18th. Awesome, right around the
• 1:01:33
  corner. Right around the.
• 1:01:33
  Corner all right well I'm gonna get on the pre sale list I'll go
• 1:01:37
  ahead I. Know.
• 1:01:39
  So I was, I was going to say, so you, you said you have bigger,
• 1:01:41
  you know, you could live off your, you could be obviously
• 1:01:43
  done like you don't need to ever work another day again in your
• 1:01:45
  life. But what like, what's next for
• 1:01:48
  you? What are you striving for?
• 1:01:49
  Like what? What keeps you going every day
• 1:01:51
  and what what are your plans for the future?
• 1:01:54
  Well, and I do love working and you know, So what I've been
• 1:01:56
  working towards for the last couple years is, you know, we've
• 1:02:00
  launched a real estate Academy which, you know, allows me to
• 1:02:03
  help and train people. It's a little bit different than
• 1:02:05
  most. We're not like the high volume.
• 1:02:07
  Yeah. You know, it's about building
• 1:02:09
  the right connections over the next couple years because I do
• 1:02:11
  have a goal. There's a number in my brain
• 1:02:14
  that I want to get to. What?
• 1:02:16
  Is it? How much?
• 1:02:19
  Yeah, it's 100 mil. OK, so.
• 1:02:22
  Do you have like an A time frame or it's just a goal?
• 1:02:25
  No, it three to four years. Three to four years.
• 1:02:28
  So yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, that's the exit time, OK,
• 1:02:32
  That's where I want to be. And that's in, in combined
• 1:02:34
  assets, net worth, everything, but that's gonna produce.
• 1:02:36
  And then, you know, I created like a pie chart like OK, I want
• 1:02:38
  certain money in this for private money lending.
• 1:02:42
  That's gonna pay me this, my holdings will pay me this.
• 1:02:44
  And part of that's vetting and teaching operators and in so you
• 1:02:48
  know, the cool thing about this book is I get to reach out to
• 1:02:52
  people, start helping people learn how to do the right
• 1:02:54
  business. The Academy allows me to
• 1:02:56
  actually train. It's not really about the money
• 1:02:58
  out of the Academy makes me be the least amount of money.
• 1:03:01
  And actually, it's probably the elite, the lowest hourly rate
• 1:03:05
  that I make. I mean, my, my plumber makes
• 1:03:07
  more than me, but what it's allowing me to do is I'm
• 1:03:10
  connecting with really good operators and I'm helping them
• 1:03:13
  excel. And I'm getting to groom those
• 1:03:15
  operators to where in three years I can invest with them
• 1:03:18
  rather than be the operator myself.
• 1:03:20
  So I want to phase back from being an operator and just
• 1:03:23
  invest with people. And you know, that's the good
• 1:03:26
  thing about the book is I get to help people teach it.
• 1:03:28
  And then the good thing about the show, which is something I
• 1:03:30
  didn't think I'd ever want, it's the visibility for people to
• 1:03:34
  reach out. And so because we're filming a
• 1:03:37
  show, it's about fix and flip. It'll be on a major network.
• 1:03:40
  And we're really showing people the realness of flipping.
• 1:03:42
  It is not what people normally see on TV.
• 1:03:44
  There's a lot of stuff that goes into it.
• 1:03:46
  It is not an easy business, but the flipping framework teaches
• 1:03:50
  people, OK, this is how you actually build that that flip
• 1:03:52
  business. And then the reward of that and
• 1:03:55
  putting in that work is you can make, I mean you've been in real
• 1:03:58
  estate while how many asset classes can you make 70 to 100%
• 1:04:05
  cash on, cash returns on? That's really hard.
• 1:04:08
  It's really hard. It's one of the.
• 1:04:10
  Hardest I think, yeah, I think single family is the best to
• 1:04:13
  make the highest returns on, on like quick flips like cash in
• 1:04:17
  and out, but and then I like multi family after that.
• 1:04:22
  Yeah, it's and those are both good because you can create
• 1:04:25
  value and flipping you can do that way.
• 1:04:27
  And so you know what I'm hoping to do is like by putting out the
• 1:04:32
  message on the show, putting out with the book doing business is
• 1:04:35
  really get people's minds going in and getting to groom
• 1:04:37
  operators to where I can still grow, consult and solve people's
• 1:04:42
  problems, right. You know, of being basically
• 1:04:45
  someone that is just going to finance operators and enhance
• 1:04:49
  their business because what I am seeing is operators get stuck.
• 1:04:54
  And again, we've gone through all these different integrated,
• 1:04:58
  you know, vertical channels, finding the deal, finding the
• 1:05:01
  deal, teaching them how to do it, giving them different
• 1:05:04
  options, then they get stuck. So what's the next solution?
• 1:05:07
  The next solution works for me perfectly.
• 1:05:10
  It's how do I enhance their business, get them unstuck to
• 1:05:14
  where they can continue the growth, get out of that plateau.
• 1:05:18
  And then it allows me by if I can invest with all these people
• 1:05:21
  and help them grow, I don't have to operate as much, which frees
• 1:05:24
  up time. Yeah.
• 1:05:25
  And so that's the goal in three to five years is to be Yeah,
• 1:05:28
  three to four years is to be passive to where we're still
• 1:05:31
  doing a lot of projects, but I'm not the one running it because
• 1:05:33
  putting your hands on things takes time.
• 1:05:36
  And so that that is really the goal.
• 1:05:38
  And that's also why I moved to Arizona.
• 1:05:39
  It's everything I do down here will be doing enhance people's
• 1:05:44
  businesses, not to go find the contractor and run a job site
• 1:05:48
  myself. So I'm looking for operators in
• 1:05:50
  Arizona that I can, you know, provide capital with, provide
• 1:05:53
  guidance with and help them shape and grow so I can free up
• 1:05:56
  more time because my kids are getting old.
• 1:05:59
  Time flies way faster than we all think.
• 1:06:01
  And you know the one thing I can't get back more I I got to
• 1:06:04
  figure out the solution to get more time because I still work a
• 1:06:06
  lot. And how has that looked for you?
• 1:06:08
  You know, because you have, how many kids do you have?
• 1:06:13
  Two kids, 9:00 and 11:00. Bianca isn't the 9 year old
• 1:06:16
  Jameson's 11. OK, Bianca and Jameson and then?
• 1:06:18
  Bianca calls herself big bucks Bianca.
• 1:06:21
  I love it. That's your your company, right?
• 1:06:23
  No, that's big. That's Buck buys houses.
• 1:06:25
  Buck buys houses. Yeah, she came up on stage and
• 1:06:27
  introduced us at PP Kong when I keynote and she came up, she's
• 1:06:30
  like Big Buck Bianca. That's a that's a real estate
• 1:06:33
  name. That's awesome.
• 1:06:34
  I love it. But yeah.
• 1:06:35
  So how have you managed building this massive empire and then
• 1:06:39
  still being such a great dad and husband?
• 1:06:42
  I mean, you've been with your wife for how long now?
• 1:06:45
  Married 14 and then we've been together since we were.
• 1:06:47
  We started when I was 21. We started dating.
• 1:06:49
  Yeah, so that's amazing. Like how how have you been able
• 1:06:52
  to manage that? Because I know a lot, sorry, but
• 1:06:55
  yeah, a lot of people, they sacrifice something, right?
• 1:06:57
  Like I've, I've definitely sacrificed relationships and my
• 1:06:59
  relationships have suffered and I struggle, I struggle to find a
• 1:07:03
  good relationship with a guy because work is my priority, you
• 1:07:08
  know, and they, and they can't understand why I'm working so
• 1:07:10
  much or why I'm around so many men all the time in my business
• 1:07:13
  and things like that. So like, how have you mastered
• 1:07:16
  everything like that? It's hard, yeah.
• 1:07:18
  I have not mastered it is what I would say.
• 1:07:21
  You know, there's there's always room for improvement.
• 1:07:23
  Right now I'm gone way too much. What I do do is every moment I
• 1:07:29
  have, especially weekends, like I don't work weekends.
• 1:07:32
  I box those out, you know, besides like late night comping
• 1:07:36
  and looking at, but when everyone's asleep, I'll do my
• 1:07:38
  work. But you know, since what I've
• 1:07:40
  learned I had to do, and this is like two to three years ago, it
• 1:07:43
  is hard. Like I had to learn how to shut
• 1:07:44
  it off and be 100% focused on them during that time.
• 1:07:50
  And so because I have such little free time, I do spend
• 1:07:52
  most of it with my family. I don't have a whole lot of
• 1:07:55
  other hobbies. Work is still my hobby, but it's
• 1:08:00
  about spending quality time with them.
• 1:08:02
  And when I am here, I participate to the Max.
• 1:08:06
  Now part of it is picking the right partner is my wife is
• 1:08:10
  amazing. She, she's not just there to be
• 1:08:15
  like here go work and she, I mean she, she makes me
• 1:08:17
  participate and she's very grounded and she's she basically
• 1:08:22
  runs our lot. I'm go work and I'm focused on
• 1:08:24
  that and she really does build the life for us.
• 1:08:27
  I'm just the one working and but it's hard.
• 1:08:31
  You go through ups and downs and the thing I learned is I have to
• 1:08:36
  really be connected in there and be focused.
• 1:08:39
  And there can be times where you have to work long, but as long
• 1:08:42
  as you're communicating well and also not just focus, you know,
• 1:08:47
  because when you're that serial entrepreneur, you focus on what
• 1:08:49
  you need to get this objective done.
• 1:08:52
  And I would say for that first 15 years, I was that I'm like, I
• 1:08:56
  need this so I can do this, I need this so I can do this.
• 1:09:00
  I need this time. I need this time.
• 1:09:01
  And it's more about listening to what they need and then adapting
• 1:09:04
  around that. And so, but it is not an easy
• 1:09:08
  thing like being married to a serial entrepreneur is that is
• 1:09:14
  more about her as a person than me.
• 1:09:17
  And she's the reason we're at where we're at today, because I
• 1:09:23
  would not have if it wasn't for her.
• 1:09:25
  I there I would like if I never met her.
• 1:09:27
  It's funny because when you know, when I never even thought
• 1:09:29
  I wanted to be married to have kids when I was in my early 20s.
• 1:09:32
  That's like me. Yeah, it was just like, I want
• 1:09:35
  to work, I want to do things. And you know what, Like even
• 1:09:39
  when we have kids, that was the biggest moment in my life.
• 1:09:42
  You know, for everyone that doesn't know if they want to
• 1:09:44
  have kids, you don't know until you have them.
• 1:09:46
  And but she really grounds me and, and she also will put me in
• 1:09:50
  my place. Like you're not showing up for
• 1:09:53
  this. You need to do this.
• 1:09:54
  And, and so when I am in town and, you know, I just make sure
• 1:09:59
  that that those times are fully committed to them.
• 1:10:03
  And I have to have a plan. Like I can't do this forever
• 1:10:06
  because now my son's 11, you know, it's I'm already in the
• 1:10:11
  process of slowing down because I'm you, you miss a lot, but
• 1:10:14
  then you make sure you show up for what you can't miss.
• 1:10:17
  So good. Well, thank you.
• 1:10:20
  Yeah, to wrap this up, I just want to ask cuz, you know, a lot
• 1:10:22
  of relentless is just achieving freedom in all areas of life,
• 1:10:26
  not only financial freedom, but relational, you know, personal
• 1:10:29
  and just freedom and in, in every aspect.
• 1:10:31
  So what does freedom mean to you?
• 1:10:34
  And what advice would you give to your younger self or other
• 1:10:37
  people out there that are looking to build a life like
• 1:10:40
  similar to what you've built? Yes, I mean freedom to me, you
• 1:10:46
  know, I mean to me definite is do whatever you would want to
• 1:10:48
  do. And you know like if I look at
• 1:10:52
  my life in freedom, I will always want to work.
• 1:10:54
  I like working. But if I looked at my life, my
• 1:10:59
  goal in three years is to be working like 1020 hours a week.
• 1:11:04
  And really my work also needs to be evolved or my work needs to
• 1:11:08
  be helping people, not just going out to work to make money.
• 1:11:12
  I have to have that in my life, but I want to spend quality
• 1:11:17
  times with the most important people.
• 1:11:18
  That's the family. And so I got a free up time.
• 1:11:20
  I want freedom for me is showing up for every event, showing up
• 1:11:24
  for every family member, and also just being healthy, being
• 1:11:29
  balanced and also get some hobbies because I mean, I have a
• 1:11:31
  couple hobbies. I love boating, I love sports.
• 1:11:33
  But I, you know, like live those things that you enjoy rather
• 1:11:37
  than work for the things that you want.
• 1:11:39
  And you know, I think for everybody who's getting started,
• 1:11:46
  if you want to get there, you can do it.
• 1:11:48
  And you're going to run into hard times.
• 1:11:50
  And this business is not easy. And when you run in those hard
• 1:11:53
  times, look at what you are doing and then write down your
• 1:11:57
  goals. One huge mistake I made in life
• 1:11:59
  is I did not write down goals. I was about point shoot, point
• 1:12:04
  shoot, point shoot. And I was good at pointing and
• 1:12:07
  shooting. And so it just worked out really
• 1:12:08
  well. But if I would have mapped out
• 1:12:12
  my goals 10 years ago and I'm very happy where I'm at today, I
• 1:12:16
  would probably be where I would already be at my goal in five
• 1:12:19
  years and I would have had a much more balanced lifestyle and
• 1:12:23
  I could have worked smarter. And so map those goals out.
• 1:12:26
  You hear about it all the time. I'm, I'm not a person that you
• 1:12:28
  should go sit there and write in a journal all day.
• 1:12:30
  I don't believe in that. I think that you need to have
• 1:12:32
  clarity and where do you want to go?
• 1:12:34
  Map it out and then work backwards.
• 1:12:36
  Don't start with the what you want to do now and then get you
• 1:12:39
  there. Where do you want to go?
• 1:12:40
  And does this work? Because there's probably some
• 1:12:42
  businesses in life I wouldn't have done.
• 1:12:44
  You know, I did them to win. I didn't be successful.
• 1:12:47
  They made some money, but they didn't need to be done.
• 1:12:49
  And it affected my time and where I was going.
• 1:12:52
  Yeah, begin with the end in mind.
• 1:12:54
  Exactly. And I never did that until like
• 1:12:56
  literally 3-4 years ago. And so you know, like you could
• 1:13:00
  cut the line off faster if you map it out.
• 1:13:02
  Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's like have you
• 1:13:04
  read you haven't read the book, OK. 10X is easier than two.
• 1:13:08
  XI have not read that on. It was a good one.
• 1:13:10
  I'm going to have to start audible.
• 1:13:12
  Yeah, Audible. Educate yourself.
• 1:13:15
  Right thing I should I should have definitely done a lot more
• 1:13:18
  of that. Well, and that's what he talks
• 1:13:19
  about is like setting a goal that is 10X.
• 1:13:23
  Like if someone asks you, you know, what would you do to
• 1:13:26
  double your business over the next 12 months?
• 1:13:28
  You would probably think like, oh, I just need to do a lot more
• 1:13:31
  of what I'm doing. I need to up sales, I need to do
• 1:13:33
  more flips. I need to do some more loans,
• 1:13:36
  like whatever, right? You just double what you're
• 1:13:37
  doing. But if someone asks you what
• 1:13:40
  would you do if you had to 10X your business in 12 months, then
• 1:13:45
  you can't just do more of what you're doing.
• 1:13:46
  You have to completely rethink everything that you're doing and
• 1:13:50
  create a new plan and a new vehicle to 10X your business in
• 1:13:54
  12 months. So he says it's actually easier
• 1:13:57
  to think of 10 Xing your goals versus 2 Xing your goals,
• 1:14:00
  because just doing more what you're doing is just more work,
• 1:14:02
  more burnout, more time, more stress.
• 1:14:06
  But 10X is a whole new vehicle and a whole new thought process
• 1:14:08
  and a whole new system to get to where you're going.
• 1:14:11
  And so when I started to think of that, I was like, Oh my God,
• 1:14:13
  that's so true. And and, you know, I was setting
• 1:14:16
  goals that were just a little bit more than what I had done
• 1:14:18
  before, right? Here's just a little bit bigger
• 1:14:20
  goal. But then that's when I was like,
• 1:14:22
  OK, my goal is to be a billionaire because I wanted to
• 1:14:24
  start thinking like a billionaire because the things
• 1:14:27
  that were going to get me to 10,000,020 million, 50 million,
• 1:14:31
  a 100 million aren't going to be the things that would get me to
• 1:14:34
  a billion. And so it was just, I mean, that
• 1:14:36
  was obviously way extravagant. I could have done, you know,
• 1:14:40
  something a little bit more reasonable, but still the idea
• 1:14:43
  is the mindset and beginning with the end in mind and like,
• 1:14:45
  where are you going? Why are you going there?
• 1:14:48
  And what do you have to put a place to get to that end goal,
• 1:14:51
  not to just do more production than you're doing this year?
• 1:14:53
  Yeah. Yeah, I know.
• 1:14:54
  And, and also, like, be realistic.
• 1:14:56
  Like billion sounds great. Like if you were told me that
• 1:14:58
  five years ago, like, yeah, I'm going to be a billionaire.
• 1:15:00
  Yeah. By mapping out my goals and how
• 1:15:03
  I wanted to live with my lifestyle, I was like, no, no,
• 1:15:05
  no, this works. If I get to my goal in three
• 1:15:08
  years, I'm well more than taken care of.
• 1:15:11
  Yeah, and I can map the lifestyle that I've always
• 1:15:13
  wanted, which is a freedom. Join with family, helping people
• 1:15:17
  and still working because I do love to work so.
• 1:15:20
  Cool. Well, thank you so much.
• 1:15:21
  That was a lot of fun. You're awesome and everybody by
• 1:15:24
  his book. I know I'm getting on the wait
• 1:15:26
  list now, the flipping framework, and then stay tuned
• 1:15:30
  for a show that'll be released in 2025.