Latest / Drinkin‘ Bros Podcast / Episode 1720 - Cast Of Netflix "The New Stanford Prison Experiment"

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Episode 1720 - Cast Of Netflix "The New Stanford Prison Experiment" · Drinkin‘ Bros Podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, cook the drinking throw.
0:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, the drinking throws kids.
0:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Got another big show for you today.
0:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Had Tom Behringer on yesterday, one of our childhood heroes, one of our favorite actors of all time, and today we've got the cast from the new Netflix hit show The New Stanford Prison Experiments.
0:34
[SPEAKER_04]: This was one of my favorite books in college, and this one stuck with me for a long time,
0:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Why not remake this and see what would happen in today's world where we could actually filmants and have a reality show.
0:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you had a chance to check it out?
0:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
0:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I watched the original, uh, so a lot of the original footage and I've seen the clips from when I haven't seen this show yet.
1:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of was saving it because I want an unadulterated conversation with people that were involved in it before actually seeing everything and make a
1:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and it's fun, because I've seen all of it.
1:14
[SPEAKER_04]: My wife and I started it, the day it came out, and wrapped it up last night, I was stunned.
1:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I was not expecting that ending whatsoever.
1:24
[SPEAKER_04]: No spoilers here, obviously, but if you haven't seen it at home, I think number two or number one around the world on Netflix, go ahead and play the trailer, and then we're going to bring the cast from the show
1:43
[SPEAKER_07]: I have no idea what to expect.
1:45
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to test my temper.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my patience with people.
1:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's case scenario?
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: My inner monster is stronger than I thought it was.
1:59
[SPEAKER_07]: In the early 70s, an infamous psychological experiment was conducted the Stanford Prison experiment.
2:05
[SPEAKER_00]: It had 24 college students as participants.
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Half of them were assigned as guards.
2:13
[SPEAKER_00]: The other half, then mates.
2:17
[SPEAKER_07]: What would happen if we rebrand this experiment?
2:20
[SPEAKER_08]: 30 participants, all from diverse backgrounds.
2:23
[SPEAKER_07]: Inside a real present facility.
2:29
[SPEAKER_08]: It is like teleporting into a completely different world.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I'm doing here.
2:41
[SPEAKER_07]: It does power corrupt.
2:42
[SPEAKER_07]: Oh, the ground got a child out of town!
2:45
[SPEAKER_09]: I repeat, on the ground!
2:46
[SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm gonna get on my face tomorrow.
2:48
[SPEAKER_09]: Oh, my hands are on the ground!
2:49
[SPEAKER_05]: That's ridiculous!
2:50
[SPEAKER_08]: At any given time, we can all rise up with 20 of us.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Our list meant to go.
2:58
[SPEAKER_09]: Fortune favors the both.
3:00
[SPEAKER_07]: What should we do with power?
3:03
[SPEAKER_09]: We are locking you guys down for 23 hours.
3:06
[SPEAKER_09]: Let him ride in there.
3:08
[SPEAKER_07]: What should we do when we don't have that one?
3:10
[SPEAKER_09]: Chris, we all did.
3:10
[SPEAKER_07]: What are you going to do?
3:13
[SPEAKER_07]: What is real and what's pretend?
3:15
[SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to make you help me, you wrote.
3:17
[SPEAKER_07]: That's the real lie!
3:18
[SPEAKER_08]: I'm a snap one for Martin.
3:19
[SPEAKER_09]: He might end up trying to kill me.
3:21
[SPEAKER_09]: They're actually convinced the real prisoners.
3:24
[SPEAKER_09]: Lock me up the cell for another 30 days.
3:27
[SPEAKER_09]: We went too far.
3:29
[SPEAKER_09]: I think we made a mistake.
3:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there it is.
3:37
[SPEAKER_04]: That is available on Netflix now.
3:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You can watch all six episodes today.
3:42
[SPEAKER_04]: We're joined by Hadley, Lucas, and Toli three of the stars from the show, gentlemen, how are you?
3:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Get out of here.
3:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Fantastic.
3:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Fantastic.
3:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for being here.
3:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.
3:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Hadley, let's start with you first.
3:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Whenever I see a production like this, I always think about what the casting call was like.
4:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you know that you were going to do this show in particular or did Netflix just put out a blanket casting call for a reality show?
4:14
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, so I basically got a DM on TikTok asking if I wanted to be a part of a like a prison show and, you know, I was like, sure, I'll do a side quest and then they didn't tell me much that it was just a prison show and that's pretty much all I gave me when you, when you found out what it was when you got there, were you happy or pissed about it?
4:37
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I mean, I was excited.
4:39
[SPEAKER_06]: It's pretty cool thing to be a part of, um,
4:44
[SPEAKER_06]: They're, you know, I was excited, I wasn't mad or anything about it.
4:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, because, you know, sometimes you cast in these things, then you show up and you're like, well, shit, I didn't know it was going to be this, you know, you don't want to be on love on the spectrum, no offense, but that's where Lucas looks like he could be, you know, potentially, where you're like, ah fuck man, am I going to be on the retard show or not?
5:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Lucas, with you, what do you bring, what were you allowed to bring, what were the parameters
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: We weren't allowed to bring anything on the inside, other than our self, the parameters that was it, your person, they didn't give you, we didn't have cell phones, we weren't allowed to leave, we didn't have any interactions with the production, it was all cameras on the walls.
5:35
[SPEAKER_04]: That's wild.
5:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, Dan, you were talking about this behind the scenes a couple of days ago when we knew these guys were coming on the show.
5:43
[SPEAKER_04]: We were reverting back to the original, and I kept going back and forth to it on it in my minds.
5:49
[SPEAKER_04]: How did the original start?
5:50
[SPEAKER_04]: That was the way there was the only thing that I couldn't remember with the book.
5:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Were they allowed to bring anything, or were they just shoved in there, and then it just started?
5:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it was any different than this.
6:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, I mean, what would you bring in to prison?
6:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Ah, toothbrush, um, standoffs.
6:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's, all that stuff is usually provided for you, I believe, right, because there's gonna be a certain type of, uh, if you get, uh, a like in real prison, I guess.
6:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that this is a 1970s man.
6:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Back then, you could drive a car through the front of somebody's house and still become president.
6:22
[SPEAKER_03]: George W. Bush, it was a real America back of the day, you know, you can do cocaine and drive your car through the front of somebody's house over the present 30 years later, or whatever.
6:33
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, we live in a pretty interesting place than we.
6:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
6:38
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how it actually, I mean, I knew the Stanford President experiment called that because it was done at Stanford.
6:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a psychological study.
6:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what they wanted to really find out was
6:50
[SPEAKER_03]: what happens in power dynamics.
6:51
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people, after World War II in the Holocaust, were trying to make sense of how ordinary people could have done some fucked up shit like that.
7:03
[SPEAKER_03]: How could you conscript people into, and look, there's a lot of heroes too that helped a variety of folks get the fuck out of there, bud.
7:15
[SPEAKER_03]: There's also Garden variety, regular everyday people who did some pretty fucked up shit.
7:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think a lot of people in academia wanted to know what was.
7:25
[SPEAKER_03]: when you put somebody in power over another person, when you dehumanize them and take their identity away, and then from the inverse, the learned helplessness from, and you see it in social societies too, with the learned helplessness from being under somebody else's control all the time.
7:44
[SPEAKER_03]: What does that do to the group psychology, right?
7:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially in the situation where one group,
7:50
[SPEAKER_03]: is technically larger than the other.
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You ought to mean that's the case in prisons.
7:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that's probably why they chose a prison experiment specifically.
8:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, totally for you, did you know it was going to be a full 14 days?
8:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you aware of the time commitment?
8:08
[SPEAKER_04]: It would be when you got the casting breakdown that was going to be this huge commitment.
8:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, most definitely when I got casted, they basically said, we're going to fly you out.
8:16
[SPEAKER_05]: We can't tell you where and you have to stay there for 14 days.
8:19
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's all that I got.
8:21
[SPEAKER_05]: I honestly thought I was going to get my kidney taken out up until we actually started filming the show because they kept everything completely under wraps.
8:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I love that actually.
8:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Now obviously payments.
8:34
[SPEAKER_04]: one would assume you get paid to be on this show.
8:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that the case or is Netflix is cheap as we hear behind the scenes?
8:44
[SPEAKER_05]: We got paid.
8:45
[SPEAKER_05]: We got paid in accordance with the other unscripted shows for some people they probably made more money than they would working in a week.
8:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Personally I lost money being there rather than running my construction company.
8:55
[SPEAKER_05]: But we did all get some compensation.
8:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me ask you this.
9:00
[SPEAKER_03]: you guys were we're all three of you prisoners or when are you guards what out yeah prisoners all three of your prisoners so i was like first are you were going to go first you came uh... at what point did you realize that it's like these are the other assholes that are going to cause a bunch of trouble with me like because you know and any group setting it's like you know it almost reminds me of uh...
9:22
[SPEAKER_03]: When I showed up to basic training, you see kids that are socially awkward, you see athletes, you see this guy who's dad was a drill sergeant, and he's all gung-ho, and then you see some dude with a fucking look on his face, you're like, yeah, me and I were going to get some fucking trouble for sure.
9:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Like how long did it take you to figure out who was who?
9:41
[SPEAKER_06]: I think we gravitated towards each other pretty much immediately.
9:43
[SPEAKER_06]: I was a guard when they were inmates at first, but I saw the crazy in their eyes when I came in as a guard.
9:49
[SPEAKER_06]: And I kind of knew that we're locked in.
9:52
[SPEAKER_06]: That was got to deal with them.
9:53
[SPEAKER_06]: And then once I became an inmate, yeah, immediately we were on just cause and issues.
9:58
[SPEAKER_03]: You guys have an actual conversation.
9:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But this is for all three of you.
10:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a conversation about trying to fuck with the system?
10:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Or do they just kind of happen naturally?
10:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you guys are all assholes or what?
10:07
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it makes a both and me and Lucas we actually came into the show a little bit later It's not shown in the actual final cut But I'm a big steroid mother fucker so is he we're looking each other in the car right over on like you I mean, they're gonna have to fight this dude or we're gonna be best friends and as soon as we sat down We instantly clicked on it
10:25
[SPEAKER_05]: And we started scheming right away and it wasn't until later on in the show that that we could have actually done something but it was it was pretty much right away.
10:34
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean we all kind of like the same things and kind of look look like I don't know a couple of those are ugly and the other but you know you do you
10:40
[SPEAKER_04]: actually do look alike and when I'm watching the show and I'm going through with my wife and I'm making notes for today's show I was like okay cool here here and here but then also I'm wondering what was left in the cutting room floor because there's conversations that you miss that also helped develop these friendships like Dan was saying earlier and I looked at it and I said all right
11:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I figured the three of them are probably friends, not only in jail, but also probably in real life and then obviously got the email from you guys and, hey, let's fucking rock and I was like, great, I fucking knew it dude, these guys were friends.
11:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, that being said, you had no have hated the fucking bald guy with the glasses, right?
11:22
[SPEAKER_05]: The bald guy with the glasses, the one that became a guard?
11:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
11:27
[SPEAKER_05]: When I came in, I came in late.
11:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't see their early shenanigans.
11:31
[SPEAKER_05]: When I came in, I was like, my life just got easier.
11:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, this guy's a goofball, right?
11:34
[SPEAKER_05]: He is a super-case guy.
11:36
[SPEAKER_05]: But like, for me, it was like, you know, this is a guard now.
11:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Life is going to be easy.
11:40
[SPEAKER_05]: We're toasting to that end now, you know?
11:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know about these guys though.
11:44
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, yeah, he pissed me off when I was a guard.
11:48
[SPEAKER_06]: But then I knew he wasn't going to do shit when we became inmates.
11:51
[SPEAKER_06]: So we kind of could do whatever fuck you wanted.
11:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because I noticed that and I'm looking at this guy and I'm like man, not only is anybody going to really take him seriously as a prisoner, which they didn't, nobody kind of followed his, you know, oh, hey, fucked his system, what are we doing and all this other shit, but then when he became a guard and his sleeves were rolled up, you know, day two, at least on the show.
12:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what was like in real life, but how the cuts went at least, um, and then yeah, he was on he had his thing on buttons and then people started to press him.
12:24
[SPEAKER_05]: And we pitch that honestly, it doesn't show this in the cut, but when I say like, hey, who raise your hand if you have a problem with everybody or with him being a guard, right?
12:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone raise their hand, but then when I press the question like, do you guys want to do something about it?
12:40
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of people back down and I talked about this a lot throughout the show.
12:44
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of people have problems.
12:45
[SPEAKER_05]: But they just wanted to voice their problems.
12:47
[SPEAKER_05]: They didn't want to actually go and take action.
12:49
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's kind of what gravitated us towards each other because we're like, we should probably take some action.
12:53
[SPEAKER_05]: We should probably do something, right?
12:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we should get it active.
12:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, to you, the three of you ever disagree on how far to push things, the three of you specifically.
13:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you take this, Lucas.
13:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Mean had to leave were more on the same page and it totally kind of stood back at some points.
13:11
[SPEAKER_02]: We wanted to get those guards in the cell and take the keys.
13:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Took us a little bit to come up with an idea that would have worked.
13:18
[SPEAKER_02]: We couldn't physically, we couldn't go punch him or like beat him up.
13:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we weren't allowed to do that.
13:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We also didn't know we could actually grab him up.
13:26
[SPEAKER_02]: If not, they would have been in the cell and probably stripped of their badges.
13:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because I saw the rules sheet, which you guys didn't have the advantage of seeing, you know, I saw it in the guard room when it was laying there and they kind of did an insert shot on it and it said, I think no fighting, no punching and something else.
13:42
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I thought the same thing, what was stopping you from grabbing one of those fuckers, like the little bald guy, and then just chucking him in the cell and then shutting the door behind him.
13:52
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if I could say this not much but I'm going to.
13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: They said if we would have physically heard someone, we would have got booked on the roll side of the prison.
14:00
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
14:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was always in the back of everyone's mind, especially us, like, I mean, we're going to take it over the whole part if we wanted to do that thing.
14:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Did they say anything about kissing?
14:12
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a great question, actually.
14:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I wondered that too, like, there was women on the show.
14:18
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, women know.
14:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude, but both, but it's like, you know, how far could you really push it on both sides?
14:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Because there was women on the show.
14:27
[SPEAKER_04]: One was really hot and kind of,
14:29
[SPEAKER_04]: passive.
14:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was like, all right, did anybody try to start a relationship or hit on this girl?
14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't show it in the footage that we saw.
14:38
[SPEAKER_04]: So they didn't show it on the Netflix version that we saw, but I'm sure with 21 dudes in a fucking tight cell and a tight quartered space, somebody, what do you guys had to hit on two of those girls?
14:50
[SPEAKER_04]: The third one, no, but one of those two, right?
14:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if anyone actually did it to their face.
14:57
[SPEAKER_05]: There was definitely a lot of locker room conversations in the background, but I don't know, I would probably divert this to Hadley.
15:03
[SPEAKER_05]: He's been the most side with them.
15:06
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I mean, I was a guard with them at everyone had pretty much respect for everybody and they kind of let, I mean, you're being recorded all the time.
15:14
[SPEAKER_06]: So if you did something, you're going to get, it's going to be on Netflix.
15:18
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
15:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, so I think everyone kept the respect for one of the sense, okay, but even when you guys left, when you were a guard, when you left, was there ever like, hey, do you want to meet me for a drink?
15:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, outback steak house for a wallaby darn or something like that.
15:35
[SPEAKER_04]: What's that?
15:35
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't think so.
15:37
[SPEAKER_06]: They're both married too.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the guys on their definitely had some crushers on a guy on a.
15:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it looked like some of those guys had never seen a woman before the show.
15:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, no.
15:49
[SPEAKER_03]: To be fair.
15:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Was there?
15:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me ask you this.
15:52
[SPEAKER_03]: This is like because you guys are obviously scheming, talking about ceiling keys and taking over the prison and all this stuff.
15:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously you're limited by rules that what
16:02
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if three capable dudes decided to pull some shit, there's no list of rules on the wall that says you can't hurt an actual prison guard, but how much of this was like, how much of this did you actually think about from a social experiment standpoint?
16:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's kind of what that is what it is, right?
16:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Like specifically, did you ever consider the fact that the guards only had any authority because you all agreed that they did?
16:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that was a common theme that we shared and even with the guys in the the early show who were trying to push the boundaries We had the same mentality as them once again me and Lucas We came in later in the show.
16:41
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we didn't all come together and do something But we definitely understood that this was a social experiment and you could either Sit by pretending your in jail for 14 days or you could try to do something to push the bound of the experiment and some people pushed and a lot of people didn't and that you know That's that's that's that's life.
17:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess
17:01
[SPEAKER_02]: the majority were sheep and they just wanted to be institutionalized and hang out.
17:06
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, they were institutionalized immediately.
17:08
[SPEAKER_06]: They wanted to sit in there for 14 days and do nothing.
17:13
[SPEAKER_04]: that's the vibe I got and that was my biggest shock out of the whole series was that's it took fucking a matter of two hours it felt like for everybody just to be submissive and be like hey dude I'm a prisoner I'm just gonna ride this out for 14 days I'm not gonna buck the system until you know you guys kind of all conspired later on in the series and as you're going through it there
17:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the biggest surprise to me is if there was real prisoners watching this and which you know I'll go to the Diddy thing because he's got an iPad and prison right now and I'm sure they're watching this Netflix is one of the apps that they get in these prisons.
17:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure they're sitting there just screaming at their iPads going these mother fuckers dude like you could oh my god this you could leave the fucking day you could leave whenever you want why the fuck are you staying there?
18:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Was there a financial gain to stay longer on the show or could you a left day one collected your check and gone home?
18:10
[SPEAKER_06]: we could have literally left day one.
18:12
[SPEAKER_06]: If we, you know, if we all decided we had the power, we could have left day one.
18:15
[SPEAKER_06]: And that was the whole issue with like us.
18:18
[SPEAKER_06]: We try to convince everybody else that we have the power we can just leave.
18:21
[SPEAKER_06]: But no one wanted to sit there and listen, then wanted to be, you know, lifers and prison and make it to the 14 days for whatever the reason, you know, and then suddenly comes in at the end and then he comes to some revelation about leaving.
18:33
[SPEAKER_06]: Like it wasn't our idea, the whole fucking time.
18:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Right people hated us.
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they did There was a big divide in between us and a lot of the other guys like just cuz we tried to politics and like convince people We don't we don't have to follow the rules.
18:48
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have to listen.
18:49
[SPEAKER_02]: We could do what we want But a lot of people just wanted the hang out
18:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like some of these people, uh, I don't know.
18:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they owe back taxes, and they just need a money to pay for it or something.
19:00
[SPEAKER_03]: They just wanted to like vegetate until they get their paycheck.
19:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Or were they scared because they were on Netflix?
19:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that was the other thing that I was thinking about during this, or are they NPCs?
19:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I think about 80% of people are NBCs.
19:12
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have souls.
19:13
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I honestly believe that.
19:15
[SPEAKER_06]: I think you might add about that last night actually.
19:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
19:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
19:18
[SPEAKER_05]: It's probably a mix of everything.
19:20
[SPEAKER_05]: And honestly, myself, I toned myself down to be on Netflix.
19:24
[SPEAKER_05]: In real life, I am way routier.
19:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Me and Hadley went to the bar afterwards.
19:28
[SPEAKER_05]: We hung out like he flew into my house the young out for a week.
19:32
[SPEAKER_05]: I was probably 100 times around here than I was for the fact that I was on Netflix and being filmed.
19:36
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think these guys were more docile as well because they were being filmed.
19:40
[SPEAKER_05]: You got them saying, you didn't want to do something and then you have your mom get mad at you or you get fired, which I think was a big concern for a lot of these guys too.
19:48
[SPEAKER_05]: If you weren't like self-employed or you didn't make your own money, you don't want to do something where you might get fired at the end of the day.
19:54
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think there was a lot of a lot of things holding people back as to why they acted the way they did.
19:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, a lot of people would seem like had decent jobs, had decent careers or families or something to go home to.
20:06
[SPEAKER_04]: The ones who didn't with the biggest shocks to me, where I was like, what do you have to lose or care or whatever become a huge reality star and try to fucking stab somebody?
20:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know what I'm saying?
20:17
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24:23
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25:29
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25:31
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25:33
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25:39
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25:42
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25:44
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25:45
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26:10
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26:13
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26:16
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26:20
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26:24
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26:25
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27:29
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28:49
[SPEAKER_02]: There was one guy, Mason, he's actually a professional wrestler with the insane clown policy circuit.
28:55
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like a slothful time.
28:56
[SPEAKER_02]: He could have like completely acted like a different person or a sloth or a sloth or a sloth or a sloth or a sloth or a sloth.
29:04
[SPEAKER_06]: He just slept for 16 hours today.
29:05
[SPEAKER_06]: Is that what you just said?
29:06
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, he just slept the whole time.
29:07
[SPEAKER_06]: Like he's a huge internet personality and he he wases opportunity.
29:13
[SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?
29:14
[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
29:15
[SPEAKER_06]: What's his name will look him up here?
29:16
[SPEAKER_06]: What was his phone name?
29:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Caleb Conley.
29:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Caleb is okay.
29:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah.
29:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
29:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Did the guy said nothing on the fucking show?
29:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, holy shit.
29:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I came with his phone.
29:25
[SPEAKER_04]: He was about to lose.
29:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
29:26
[SPEAKER_05]: He's one of the boys.
29:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Like when when he was awake, he would come down.
29:30
[SPEAKER_05]: He would hang out with us.
29:30
[SPEAKER_05]: He would talk.
29:31
[SPEAKER_05]: But he just kind of coasted towards the end.
29:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of like wanted to like be with us and do something.
29:36
[SPEAKER_02]: But like it was too late at that point.
29:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
29:39
[SPEAKER_03]: What would you say?
29:43
[SPEAKER_03]: your goal what like once you got there and kind of figured out what was going on what was your goal exactly just to cost trouble hadly you see it seems like that's obviously the case for you and you got you're it's like when you when you I was I was a member of the e4 mafia as well for some time before they fucked up and made me a sergeant but like there was one scene that I read about where you voted for the woman for headguard instead of the dude
30:11
[SPEAKER_03]: because you thought it was funny.
30:12
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's like that you're a, you're a dick.
30:14
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, but that's exactly what I would have done too because it's funny, right?
30:18
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I just wanted to stir it up.
30:21
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm a poster all the time to matter what, I think it's funny to, you know, switch it up on people.
30:27
[SPEAKER_06]: And then I knew he wanted to be guard, headguard so bad and it was going to hurt his ego if I chose somebody else.
30:34
[SPEAKER_06]: And it worked, and he was very, very upset about it.
30:37
[SPEAKER_06]: They didn't even show half the
30:39
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, have it from the, you know, in the show.
30:42
[SPEAKER_06]: He was so pissed.
30:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that weird though to get that competitive about something that doesn't even matter in it ends in 10 days?
30:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's 14 days, but still like, how many of you guys going to jail before this in real life?
30:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I did a couple of times.
30:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a convicted felon.
31:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a pardon from Pennsylvania.
31:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was in jail that long a couple days.
31:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, but even two days, right?
31:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we've all been in for some short about a time or a decent amount of time.
31:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It's boring as fuck.
31:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's just boring as shit.
31:16
[SPEAKER_04]: One day is boring as shit.
31:18
[SPEAKER_04]: For our team.
31:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
31:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Like 14 days is still like, got damn two weeks of your life.
31:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you guys didn't have TVs.
31:27
[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't have iPads or any of the cool shit that did.
31:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That did.
31:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Internet.
31:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Nothing.
31:34
[SPEAKER_05]: We played cards and worked out in the yard.
31:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, one of the things that I was always saying while I was in there like in real jail and real prison, it's the violence and the gay sex that keeps everything interesting.
31:45
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're not doing either one of those.
31:47
[SPEAKER_05]: So like it was, it was a really rough time.
31:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, that's true about every day.
31:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you didn't do it in a violent story.
31:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
31:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, look, that's it, like Dan said, that's true about everyday life.
31:57
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, if there's no gay sex or violence, preferably at the same time.
32:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what do we really do?
32:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what do we do it, you know?
32:04
[SPEAKER_04]: What do we even do in his humans?
32:06
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, as I continued to watch it, the other thing that I thought of was, okay, if these guys don't know what they're going into, did any of you afterwards know what the Stanford prison experiment was about?
32:22
[SPEAKER_06]: I looked into it just a little bit before I went, but then, you know, I wanted to have an open mind when going into the experiment.
32:28
[SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, I learned about it.
32:30
[SPEAKER_06]: No, it was, but that's about it.
32:32
[SPEAKER_06]: But that didn't help you at all.
32:35
[SPEAKER_06]: I knew what I was going to do when I went in there.
32:36
[SPEAKER_06]: I was going to stir shit up in cause issues.
32:38
[SPEAKER_06]: So, it didn't fucking matter.
32:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and then for, uh, totally, for example, did you read the book afterwards, uh, and then say, okay, cool.
32:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's what happened to me versus what happened to them.
32:50
[SPEAKER_05]: I took, I went to, I'm a high school dropout, but I did one semester community college after I dropped out of high school and we did a whole unit about the Stanford Prison experiment.
32:58
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean California actually, Stanford's not that far from me.
33:02
[SPEAKER_05]: So I knew about it beforehand and we knew the limitations of what happened.
33:06
[SPEAKER_05]: But once again, I didn't really think it affected us because we signed up for a reality show that isn't experiment.
33:13
[SPEAKER_05]: You got them saying, so it's like, it was different.
33:15
[SPEAKER_05]: We knew we were on a reality show regardless of what happened in the previous experiment.
33:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But even looking back at that previous experiment and how out of control it got.
33:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you we a pest that you couldn't take it that far or were the previous experiment was full of shit, right?
33:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what was that?
33:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's like people the the interview is afterwards.
33:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is just I don't know if somebody has Stanford had a had a theory that they just wanted to confirm or whatever it was Philip Zimbardo who ran the study originally back in 71.
33:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know, um, the guards were actively coached on how to fuck with the prisoners.
33:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, the break, the mental breakdown scenes all the drama was kind of fake.
33:57
[SPEAKER_03]: It was almost like pre, uh, 90s and early 2000s staged, uh, unscripted TV, but in the 1970s.
34:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and they came to these conclusions.
34:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, people just fuckin' freak out and everybody becomes a monster.
34:10
[SPEAKER_03]: In reality, what happens is that the people under some control either capitulate or the people who are competent usually self-police themselves and come up with their own system or rules because they don't wanna deal with anybody's bullshit, right?
34:23
[SPEAKER_03]: That's usually what happens.
34:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guards are just like,
34:26
[SPEAKER_03]: how little there's there's usually one person involved who is like wants to be the headguard or whatever you can make whatever you want out of that and then there's a bunch of other people who are just like how what's the least amount of work I can do to get out of here that's and that's pretty much every workplace anybody's ever worked in right and that's exactly what happened here like uh the two people that wanted to be headguard uh first of all that guy with a mustache
34:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, Jesus Christ.
34:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd cool.
34:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, looked hard and acted hard when it actually came down to the shits.
34:58
[SPEAKER_04]: He lost that, that went out to fucking window, dude.
35:01
[SPEAKER_04]: That guy was, it was, it was he had case in real life.
35:06
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, out of everyone on the show, I think I've talked to him the Lisa afterwards.
35:10
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
35:11
[SPEAKER_05]: I actually shared the cell within the night we were, that he was an in,
35:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You froze up there.
35:19
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all right.
35:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Now you're fine.
35:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll ask you Lucas, the guy with the mustache.
35:27
[SPEAKER_04]: What was his issue there?
35:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you ever talk to him?
35:32
[SPEAKER_04]: What's up?
35:34
[SPEAKER_04]: he's got bad internet.
35:34
[SPEAKER_04]: There he is.
35:35
[SPEAKER_04]: That's fine.
35:35
[SPEAKER_04]: That's fine.
35:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry about it.
35:38
[SPEAKER_04]: We've all got bad internet.
35:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Us two for Christ sex from time to time.
35:41
[SPEAKER_04]: It happens.
35:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But Lucas, for you, what was the, what was the story there?
35:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not frozen.
35:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not frozen.
35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not frozen.
35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not frozen dude.
35:52
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the way we're all Disney characters right now.
35:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I love it.
35:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there you go.
35:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You're back now.
36:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Lucas, what was it like for you with the guy with the mustache?
36:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have much interaction with Hudson to be honest with you.
36:07
[SPEAKER_02]: At the end when he did become a prisoner, he tried to get into our group almost and tried to get us to do something with him.
36:14
[SPEAKER_02]: But then he was like, I'm leaving.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: As soon as I do something.
36:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So we kind of like shunned him away from us.
36:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we're like, that's a pussy move.
36:21
[SPEAKER_06]: That's a bitch move.
36:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, and then the guy that worked on the oil rig, uh, who just had the same guy.
36:28
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the same guy.
36:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, cuz he, uh, just immediately do's like, hey, dude, I'm fucking gone like classic.
36:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
36:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I, and he makes that huge announcement to everybody.
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I'm gone today or whatever.
36:41
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not an airport.
36:42
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be a good day.
36:43
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be a good day.
36:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:45
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:46
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:47
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:48
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:49
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a good day.
36:54
[UNKNOWN]: It's
36:55
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I thought when I was watching, and I was like, who's gonna care out of this group?
36:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Like everybody else is still going through the 14 days.
37:03
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you weren't getting your way, and then now you're a prisoner, and you're like, well, fuck it, I make more money doing X, but then all you most of you guys make more money in the real world than on a Netflix show.
37:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's not really an excuse to me.
37:16
[SPEAKER_04]: The fascinating thing that I find though is if you look at both of the studies from now and until then 30 years.
37:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you guys personally think, and we'll start with you, Hathley?
37:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you personally think there was a difference between the eras, like the ages of when this happened from 2026 versus early 70s?
37:42
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I mean, yeah, everything's dramatized now to an extent and, you know, there's so much reality TV that I think people think you can't have an actual experiment.
37:51
[SPEAKER_06]: I think they were trying to push the line back in the 70s too with the whole experiment.
37:55
[SPEAKER_06]: So he was trying to make a point and make a name for himself.
37:58
[SPEAKER_06]: So I think there's a pretty big difference.
38:01
[SPEAKER_06]: It's hard to replicate and make it exactly the same.
38:04
[SPEAKER_04]: But again, you guys weren't trying to do that.
38:06
[SPEAKER_06]: It just kind of happened.
38:07
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
38:08
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, we went in there.
38:09
[SPEAKER_06]: We know it's an experiment.
38:11
[SPEAKER_06]: We wanted to push the line, because we knew it was an experiment.
38:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wanted to see what would happen if we did push it.
38:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what did you just end?
38:18
[SPEAKER_02]: What the guard just quit.
38:19
[SPEAKER_03]: But... Well, Lucas, you said that there was a lot of drama that got cut that didn't make the actual show.
38:26
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to tell a story about that?
38:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Something fun.
38:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like...
38:31
[SPEAKER_02]: even at the end when we try to get everyone to leave like we were we were talking about that for like two days prior and then no one wanted to listen but Chris Lee the uh the spirit coach
38:44
[SPEAKER_02]: He, he can't cuss because he's Mormon.
38:48
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just think it's funny like when you see him saying pussy and stuff like he had to try all this power, not that cuss at us because we kept coming at him.
38:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Mike Carrera, the tell you Mike kid, Paddley would uh, Mikey, take him, I almost cry like every day.
39:08
[SPEAKER_04]: What about the teacher, the teacher?
39:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Pete.
39:12
[SPEAKER_04]: What was his story because as soon as ship broke off, he wanted to be a leader and he said, I proved myself as a leader and all that other stuff.
39:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But when shit really started getting tense, he was just tapping on the glass, but he was still locked behind the things happening on the glass, like, hey guys, don't do that, but also I'm safe in here.
39:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So fuck those guys, like I don't really care what happens to them.
39:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you have the same sense?
39:37
[SPEAKER_06]: When I was a guard you're talking about.
39:38
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I guess you felt safe for up top, but like, you're gonna, I'm a grown-ass man.
39:45
[SPEAKER_06]: If I had to fight somebody down as, you know, one of these inmates I was gonna, I thought I was gonna fight these two first walking in there, but it was like crazy as I was staring at me, and I'm like, God dammit.
39:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's got to be the first thing on your mind of like who can I tell you who can I not Yeah, but yeah, the thing that I couldn't remember was was there women involved in the first one?
40:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Dan.
40:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, it was yeah, okay.
40:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to look at the full demographic breakdown
40:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Because that was surprising, I think the most surprising thing overall was the three women that were involved.
40:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, you guys could overpower them anytime you wanted to.
40:23
[SPEAKER_04]: The hotter one was pretty passive.
40:27
[SPEAKER_04]: The girl who is the CEO, at least had a stern voice, and appeared like she was in some type of control.
40:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, the original was all male.
40:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It was all dudes, right?
40:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
40:36
[SPEAKER_03]: That's...
40:39
[SPEAKER_03]: man.
40:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's that's real gay.
40:41
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I'm saying.
40:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So like with with these girls there, like were you actually genuinely respecting her or was it just because you were on television?
40:50
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think as a whole like everyone came to a conclusion like we're not going to disrespect a woman because like I think that would have got all the inmates mad at the other inmates if you just straight up disrespected one of the women for no reason.
41:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's just a general male concept.
41:05
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I feel like I was a little bit disrespectful, nothing like super crazy, but, you know, I was pushing our limits.
41:11
[SPEAKER_06]: I did some stuff that I can't talk about, because I wasn't clear to talk about it.
41:15
[SPEAKER_06]: But I definitely did some stuff that pushed the line with them, and they didn't push back on me at all.
41:20
[SPEAKER_06]: I never got in trouble for anything, you know.
41:23
[SPEAKER_02]: when you were a guard.
41:24
[SPEAKER_06]: No, when I was an inmate, when they were doing this.
41:26
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
41:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and then the black chick.
41:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Look, she seemed like she'd been working in a prison for 30 years already.
41:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that was the most pretty guard believable character there was.
41:36
[SPEAKER_04]: She didn't give a fuck about anything.
41:38
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, Mom, it was awesome.
41:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Was, yeah, was that real or was that an act?
41:42
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, that's her.
41:43
[SPEAKER_06]: Savannah's awesome.
41:43
[SPEAKER_06]: She's a boss bitch.
41:46
[SPEAKER_06]: is the way she walked around even my wife was just like, oh, that's exactly how they are.
41:50
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you want?
41:51
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
41:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And then they just walk away and you're like, yeah, she could have actually been a real fucking prison guard.
41:56
[SPEAKER_02]: She didn't talk much other than when she wanted to get her phone across.
41:59
[SPEAKER_02]: She was like, no, she got a point across.
42:03
[SPEAKER_06]: And what does she do in real life by the way?
42:06
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I'm not a hundred percent sure.
42:07
[SPEAKER_06]: She was a security guard.
42:09
[SPEAKER_06]: And she's, I don't actually, I really don't know.
42:12
[SPEAKER_02]: She makes your favorite songs in.
42:13
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, she does music, too.
42:15
[SPEAKER_06]: I feel like every security guard makes music, though.
42:18
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, something got mixed tapes.
42:20
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
42:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, there's a, there's an old saying, um, about tribalism that it's hard to hate up close, right, that when you mix people together, um, and
42:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't you don't make that a point to point that out that it kind of just kind of goes into the background.
42:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm curious if because, you know, if you watch social media these days, it seems like everybody hates everybody.
42:51
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you look around at your own group of friends, you're like, oh, well, that.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't hate that guy and that he's one of them, whatever them happens to be.
42:59
[SPEAKER_03]: You think that social media is completely full of shit or what, I guess, is the question.
43:03
[SPEAKER_05]: I think Lucas actually has a really good answer to this that he said on the news the other day.
43:08
[SPEAKER_05]: What did you say Lucas about a religion?
43:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, like people's creed like religion, sex, sexual orientation, politics, or race, was never a factor between any arguments or disagreements we had within the pod with the prisoners.
43:24
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's super interesting.
43:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to know why.
43:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Why do you guys?
43:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Why do all three of you think that's the case?
43:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to hear your answers from all three of you.
43:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And in that moment, we were all in a group experience and nothing else actually mattered, right?
43:39
[SPEAKER_05]: And now if you look at the whole world, we could probably say that does any of this shit actually matter or we all just
43:45
[SPEAKER_05]: gun hoda our beliefs right I used to say when I was a kid like every man as his religion then his politics and most times they're both wrong right so it's like when you take that all the way and we know we're in this thing for 14 days together that's it that's all that really matters you get them trying to say yeah yeah absolutely
44:02
[SPEAKER_06]: I will say Mike, uh, the comedian.
44:04
[SPEAKER_06]: He did race, race, shame, Lee, and the leading.
44:08
[SPEAKER_06]: He didn't want to leave until he's like, do it for the people that are like me.
44:11
[SPEAKER_06]: And that's how that was so fucking stupid.
44:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it wasn't real or was it because he was a comedian that I couldn't figure that out where he was like, he's like, I can't play that in there.
44:23
[SPEAKER_06]: And Lee, he's a more and so it's easy to press on him.
44:27
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was hilarious.
44:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I did too, when I was watching it, and I was like, dude, it is a comedian, that's exactly what I would say of like, yeah, funny though.
44:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I haven't seen this stand up or anything else.
44:38
[SPEAKER_04]: It just said obviously comedian in a lower third, but as I'm watching it, I'm like, man, I'm one of them motherfuckers was like, all right, I wanna go home.
44:46
[SPEAKER_04]: How do I shame this guy out of here?
44:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's just use my race and be like, man, for the people who are like me, who are locked up and prisons, you know, we need to get together and show that we can break out of this and get out of the earth.
44:59
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, all right, cool man, like, I laughed my ass off.
45:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
45:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if it wasn't all of the general grievance politics and ranking bullshit, what do you think if you had to say, what determined status among the group on either side, guard or or end made?
45:20
[SPEAKER_03]: What was it?
45:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it like, um, I don't know, uh,
45:23
[SPEAKER_03]: being funny or being a belligerent or being smart or loyal.
45:28
[SPEAKER_03]: What was it?
45:29
[SPEAKER_06]: I think for guard, it was more who was the loudest and who, like, took charge, I guess.
45:36
[SPEAKER_06]: But I never thought Lee was our head, you know, leader because he was loud and doing all these games and shit, you know, most of the time I was making decisions and he was going along with what I was saying, but they don't even show that, you know, I can manipulate from the back and he's, you know, he's going to agree because that we're doing everything as a group.
45:53
[SPEAKER_06]: So for him to say, like, he was a leader and he's making decisions and shit, that's not even true at all.
45:58
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, pop a master.
45:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, coming in late as an inmate, I immediately saw social rank and it was it was basically by who who spoke and who was quiet when those people were speaking.
46:10
[SPEAKER_05]: You got them saying like who actually commanded the presence in the room.
46:13
[SPEAKER_05]: But then as time went on, you realized that maybe that person didn't have as much.
46:18
[SPEAKER_05]: social powers as as I initially thought.
46:22
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I do think it was who spoke out the most, basically got the most attention.
46:27
[SPEAKER_05]: But then we have these little subgroups and like each subgroup had their own leader.
46:31
[SPEAKER_05]: And so there was a lot of social dynamics going on and I don't think they actually reflected that much in the show.
46:36
[SPEAKER_05]: But there was, there was a lot of politics that happened, a lot a lot of politics.
46:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, do you think people this, um,
46:42
[SPEAKER_03]: There's been some discussion about this, I mean Jordan Peterson's written quite a bit about it and others but about human beings having natural hierarchies that develop outside of any institution.
46:55
[SPEAKER_03]: You put 10 people in a room regardless of where they came from or the level of anything education, well whatever the fuck.
47:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And depending on the circumstances in that room, they will form some natural hierarchy, right?
47:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I've just done not to cut you off, but if you were a billionaire and came to that room that day, nobody else gives a fuck about that right doesn't that doesn't have any effect on everybody still suck in the same deck.
47:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know some of those guys are sucking a dick when Lee was talking about all the money he had.
47:28
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we try coming into the same thing because, you know, you know, you know, I don't want to get a PJ in this and that and whatever and then, you know, no one gave it shit.
47:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, a lot of those dudes fed into it and we're like on his dick about it.
47:40
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, the ones that are quiet didn't get shown on Netflix, you know what I mean?
47:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And is it true?
47:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Like is he rich?
47:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Does he a life coach?
47:49
[SPEAKER_04]: She's he what they projected him to be?
47:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's the other thing.
47:55
[SPEAKER_02]: He claims to be, and he does have a, he owned a solar company.
48:00
[SPEAKER_02]: He sold years ago.
48:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Does say he had like a nine figure, sell or something?
48:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Ten figure.
48:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he owns another company.
48:09
[SPEAKER_02]: He definitely had some money.
48:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, because the way he carried himself in his conversations and everything else, you could tell he was a pretty bright guy, but obviously that's one of the things that people tend to lie about in this life.
48:23
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't know if it's because of prison, where it's just like, hey dude, I'm locked in this room with his guys.
48:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's how I want to portray myself.
48:31
[SPEAKER_04]: So that way, either by me some good will, some people might suck my dick or hang on every word I say
48:40
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I mean, everyone's, you get the bullshit, or some people who are just foolish, you know, people usually allow us people and the people who talked in those are generally just lying.
48:50
[SPEAKER_06]: So like, every time I hear someone who's talking their selves up like that, I don't really tend to believe anything they're saying.
48:55
[SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, there's probably some truth that what are you saying, either way, don't care.
49:00
[SPEAKER_06]: It's a lie.
49:02
[SPEAKER_06]: Your money doesn't matter to me.
49:04
[SPEAKER_02]: The group was too like we were kind of a black sheep just because we were trouble makers, I guess.
49:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Then there was a lot of neutral people just like in between and then there was like a couple of other smaller groups of people just based on what they wanted to do and who they were.
49:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Interesting and then the other part that it makes you question as an audience member watching it is what you would do in that situation and it turned on my wife last night and she said Dan would have been gone day one.
49:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you have stayed for the full 14 days just to do it?
49:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Or would you have said, this is ridiculous?
49:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I know what this experiment is, and I'm out of here.
49:42
[SPEAKER_04]: There's been a lot of debate about that.
49:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I would have been curious enough to stay.
49:48
[SPEAKER_03]: I would be curious about other people's behavior, frankly, because it's interesting, especially the way it turned out where like the original Stanford Pizzer experiment was bullshit, the whole thing was, right?
50:02
[SPEAKER_03]: This one, I think, is a better reflection of human psychology, where hierarchies develop on all sides, where
50:12
[SPEAKER_03]: incentives drive outcomes typically speaking in life and the inverse of that is true like negative incentives drive people to avoid particular outcomes, which is like, you get asked the question why why would inmates start to police themselves and set of, you know, just trying to push the line all the time is if you're of consequences is it is it.
50:34
[SPEAKER_03]: is it some sense of ethics or morality or they just don't want some asshole to ruin everything for them.
50:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
50:41
[SPEAKER_03]: When you have like a tenuous grasp on your own day, when you only have, when there's only a certain amount of options that you have throughout the day where you can find some enjoyment, the last thing you want is to lose one of those things.
50:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You can see it with like kids in school, though there's a pizza party on Friday, Jimmy shut the fuck up so we don't lose our pizza party, it's simple shit like that that motivates people.
51:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and this experience, but also just in those real world examples and you look at something like Stanford President's experiment and you can see how absolutely retarded that is.
51:14
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, there's a couple of people who are going to power trip, but people don't turn into animals like that, right?
51:19
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just not true, uh, and then you see people, uh,
51:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Organizing themselves based on the circumstance when nobody explicitly tells them to, everybody kind of works their way into a role.
51:32
[SPEAKER_03]: We are communal creatures as much as we're tribal creatures.
51:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a fact.
51:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you reduce the tribe down to, I've got to be with these 10 people for the next 14 days, the average person is going to find a way to co-exist with them.
51:44
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just the reality, the situation.
51:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and for me, I said, I told my wife I go, look, I would have stayed until I was having or not having fun anymore.
51:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I would have stirred, troubled up, and then once everybody kind of fell into whatever it was, if I wasn't happy, it would have been like, cool, I'm out of here.
52:02
[SPEAKER_04]: This is all total bullshit.
52:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, my wife gave a totally different answer.
52:06
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, dude, I don't like to upset the herd.
52:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm also not a fucking quitter, which is what that Chris Lee guy said.
52:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And he goes, I just want to stay for the whole fucking time.
52:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, why?
52:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd like, you're not a fucking real prisoner for Christ's sakes.
52:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And once I said it to her and it kind of dawned on her, she was like, oh, and then obviously the ending of the show happens.
52:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I don't want to spoil it for the audience,
52:36
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think everybody's built with something different inside of them to want to do this and I'm curious is if any of you, if it hadn't ended the way it would have, would you stuck around for the whole 14 days and fucked up more shit?
52:52
[SPEAKER_05]: We were actually out regardless of the conversations everybody else had, which is also not shown.
52:57
[SPEAKER_05]: There was a group of us that had already decided that we had, we were done at that point.
53:01
[SPEAKER_05]: And the only people who would have probably stayed would be the survivor squad, the lifeers, the guys who wanted to make it 14 days.
53:07
[SPEAKER_05]: But what I do want to say is on the back end,
53:10
[SPEAKER_05]: We had a completely different experience than what is going to be shown to the audience, because we were actually together for whatever ten days, twenty-four hours a day.
53:20
[SPEAKER_05]: There are so many things going on in the background that you guys haven't seen.
53:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Both way, way worse than what you saw.
53:26
[SPEAKER_05]: And also way better than what you saw.
53:28
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I'm saying?
53:30
[SPEAKER_05]: So it was a whole experience.
53:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think a lot of people who wanted to quit early because of the time they were having and it was actually a good time for the most part.
53:39
[SPEAKER_05]: They did want to stay longer and then they maybe originally thought, you got them trying to say it on.
53:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Why was it a good time when you're eating shitty food all day?
53:47
[SPEAKER_04]: The lights are coming up.
53:48
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, 6 a.m. or whatever it was.
53:51
[SPEAKER_03]: But the same, I had like an answer.
53:52
[SPEAKER_03]: That one for the same reason that you, some of your best memories in the military are sitting around in the rain, throwing rocks at your fucking buddies.
53:59
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why.
54:00
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you embrace the suck.
54:02
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I've eaten shit to your food.
54:04
[SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't bad.
54:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like to veggie omelette.
54:06
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, dude, you just deal with it.
54:09
[SPEAKER_06]: And then you're with your bud, so it's fun.
54:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And then your responsibility.
54:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
54:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That's probably why guys go back to jail.
54:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe, man.
54:17
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's an interesting point.
54:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I never really thought about that.
54:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe this is the camaraderie.
54:21
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not the camaraderie.
54:23
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the lack of responsibility.
54:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's three hots in a cot, right?
54:26
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the fucking phrase that you just do to describe that situation.
54:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're saying they go back just for the convenience of it.
54:32
[SPEAKER_02]: three hot meals in a bed that you don't have to pay a for sure why not just hang out and play cards all day with your boys and watch them TV.
54:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a life at drift which is you know it's that it's a whole other conversation about the state of modern man in general right that aren't in prison just drifting through life without you know accomplishing some of the things they should but I've got some questions which which of the three of you would become a dictator first.
55:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Adley.
55:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
55:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Look at said if he was a guard, he would have taken everyone's mattresses away, so maybe him honestly.
55:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
55:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's Lucas.
55:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a blanket.
55:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys kind of definitely fucked with some people as guards.
55:32
[SPEAKER_06]: You kind of.
55:33
[SPEAKER_06]: We should have.
55:33
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know why I was talking to him.
55:35
[SPEAKER_06]: Going back.
55:36
[SPEAKER_06]: I went back and did it again.
55:37
[SPEAKER_06]: I would have done way more.
55:39
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the three of you would be most likely to start a revolution, you think?
55:43
[SPEAKER_05]: probably probably me, but I got my actual communist poster right here from the downfall, you know, so I never think of my blood, but I try to get everybody to come together for a long time.
55:54
[SPEAKER_05]: The problem with getting people together is everyone has to be on fucking board.
55:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And if everyone's not on board, it doesn't work, you know?
56:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
56:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I already know the answer to this question, I think, but who is the most willing to break a rule just because it existed?
56:10
[SPEAKER_04]: me.
56:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
56:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Nope.
56:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
56:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Me.
56:12
[SPEAKER_04]: God, he reminds us of all of our friends in real life.
56:18
[SPEAKER_04]: which isn't good.
56:19
[SPEAKER_04]: You're going to die in like an hour.
56:21
[SPEAKER_06]: So just I take that as a compliment.
56:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
56:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you'll get on a four wheeler and set nights after 15, 16 hard apps and just fucking crash it.
56:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I know exactly who the fuck you are.
56:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was also part of the fun of it is we felt like we knew each of these personalities.
56:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Now you said, and I told you said that there's a lot of stuff behind the scenes that looked better and vice versa than it actually was.
56:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, the original experiment was designed to make the case that power corrupts.
56:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that's actually true?
57:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Did this experiment convince you one way or the other about them?
57:04
[SPEAKER_05]: This experiment definitely didn't.
57:05
[SPEAKER_05]: I think there was not enough at stake to say, does power corrupt?
57:09
[SPEAKER_05]: From us on a Netflix show, right?
57:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Do I think power corrupts overall?
57:13
[SPEAKER_05]: 100% and I think we can see that in everyday life?
57:16
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think that that was the outcome of
57:19
[SPEAKER_05]: The show and in turn, through what we experience, you might even say that people in power can bring people closer to the other, or they can be really nice, or whatever, right?
57:29
[SPEAKER_05]: So I do, I think power corrupts overall.
57:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
57:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, here's a more refined question.
57:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And do you think that it reveals character or changes it?
57:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Because corrupt just exposes corruption that was already there, right?
57:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe or is it like create corruption?
57:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure, sure.
57:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's easier seen through peak.
57:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Pete was let's say a rebel, anacle ahead in the beginning, okay?
57:51
[SPEAKER_05]: As soon as he becomes a guard, bro, he's like, I want to be head guard.
57:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I want to take me seriously, like, hey guys, let's all follow the rules.
57:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And so I think being put in power, definitely gives people the sense of
58:05
[SPEAKER_05]: It might not even be as as pro-found as like a corruption, but it gives people the sense of wanting to take care of those that they are in power over.
58:14
[SPEAKER_06]: Do you get them trying to say like, but if from specialist is to sergeant honestly like your jackass is specialist and then you get e5 and then you have to take care of people.
58:23
[SPEAKER_06]: So then you start taking things seriously.
58:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's, there's, well, I'm, and it's only you referring to something like no bless or bleach, it's just like this idea from feudal Europe that you are required, you're like, it's your job to take care of the people in your charge.
58:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you mean?
58:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, basically.
58:37
[SPEAKER_05]: And you could see that through the guy who was rebelling the most when he became a guard, he started policing the most.
58:43
[SPEAKER_05]: And he even says like, oh, we got to take care of these guys.
58:45
[SPEAKER_05]: You got to make sure they're safe.
58:46
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm, and so I think a lot of times when you put in power, that's, that's what, what comes out of it.
58:52
[SPEAKER_05]: And then if you're a dick naturally, then you take it to the next step, we're like, all right, now I've got to run this like a dictatorship or I've got to make sure everyone is fucking suffering, you know what I'm saying?
59:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, so that that begs a question then do you think these the worst abuses caused by evil people, or they caused by evil people, or by ordinary people who convince themselves that these are just the rules, like I'm just following orders that, you know, that whole thing.
59:17
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for me, either.
59:19
[SPEAKER_06]: I think, nor people can, you know, just fall rules and do what they're told because they're
59:24
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, nutless, you know, you just do what you're told that's, I think that's dumb.
59:28
[SPEAKER_06]: I hate people like that.
59:29
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, if something's wrong, you shouldn't do it, but then also people, there's people who go and do evil things because they're just evil in their people, shit, you know what I mean?
59:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I think also, once some people, once you push a moral line of yourself or whatever it is, say, you heard some animal hurt, like it's easier, the keep pushing that line.
59:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Once you start down that path.
59:49
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
59:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think so what do you think that is, though?
59:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think that's part of, like your, think if your identity is a shell or a husk and you break through it somehow, it's like, oh, I'm not that guy who takes care of people anymore.
1:00:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm that guy who hurts people, right?
1:00:03
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think about that?
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_06]: mentally weak people, I think, you know, I think, you think it comes down to mental toughness and how you are to care, like your character shouldn't change because you've done something.
1:00:14
[SPEAKER_06]: You can still go back to what, you know, you believe in, shouldn't be like that, you know?
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
1:00:20
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that, to your point, if there's a precedent that is evil or wrong, and you're an average person, and you're following the average status quo,
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_05]: as the leadership gets more direct and more evil, you will slowly follow it as well.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_05]: You get them saying, and so I think for a lot of people and you can see this, it's almost like complacency.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's really what it comes down to.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_05]: So many people will be stuck.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_05]: And why are we in jail for 14 days when we could have left day one complacency?
1:00:50
[SPEAKER_05]: And it took somebody at the top being like, no, we could leave.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you put that in not a positive light, it will follow the same rank.
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you get them saying, that's what you see?
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, like Germany, right?
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh eh
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I should have had the one versus the millions refusing to tell him no, you know what I mean.
1:01:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it's, it's, I, okay, one has power.
1:01:37
[SPEAKER_05]: They have an army behind them.
1:01:38
[SPEAKER_05]: They have something.
1:01:39
[SPEAKER_05]: But throughout history, it has been the group that has overpowered the one at some point.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think people understand how much power they hold until an event catalyzes them to take over.
1:01:52
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and we see this with all revolutions, right?
1:01:55
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's seen throughout history, but like,
1:01:58
[SPEAKER_05]: that minority has the power and numbers, maybe they don't have the power and resources or voice, but the majority usually always wins and does come around at some point.
1:02:09
[SPEAKER_05]: That's seen in our experiment, that's seen in revolutions, follow communism, 1776.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_05]: You can see it all throughout the country.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_06]: Gentlemen, today, and the people today and how, you know, the stuff that we put up with, it was just take us getting the other and not doing half the shit that telling us to do.
1:02:26
[SPEAKER_06]: Everything.
1:02:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's really interesting.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_03]: You bring that up because the broader coalition of the right wing in America since about 1953 was Something called fusionism right in was the old right the new right and the libertarians all kind of working together because they had a similar Economic goal and it was flimsy, but the thing that held it together was To end to always point the anti-communists wing of all those parties were like no matter what happens We can't allow these retards to come over here, right?
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And do this stuff.
1:02:56
[SPEAKER_03]: Once the wall fell in 91, that coalition fell apart rapidly.
1:03:00
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean the libertarians went Ron Paul the the social conservative new right William F. Buckley people kind of went towards a new Gengrich and all that stuff and this is not this isn't a political show, but it's interesting to see how that fell apart there and then you know
1:03:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And 24 Trump builds this new coalition right in 2024.
1:03:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Libertarian's come back for a little bit because he made some promises to him.
1:03:25
[SPEAKER_03]: This group, this group, even a lot of the moderate left voted for him.
1:03:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Apparently, according to these exit polls.
1:03:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of minority groups that have historically gone to Democrats have done it as well.
1:03:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think anybody's really figured out what?
1:03:37
[SPEAKER_03]: fused that group together because they haven't been able to replicate it.
1:03:40
[SPEAKER_03]: You're seeing it in the midterms now.
1:03:41
[SPEAKER_03]: It's way more fucked up than it should be, frankly.
1:03:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, despite all the, like, the Iran thing and gas and all this other bullshit, um, you, you could still, like, if you have a strong enough fusion, you can still make it through that stuff, right?
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I don't think anybody's identified it.
1:03:57
[SPEAKER_03]: I wonder if from your,
1:03:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Not again, this isn't a political show, but from your perspective, you guys were hanging out doing On a team with people that weren't necessarily from the same background, didn't necessarily have the same interest or Religion or fucking politics or whatever, but you work together anyways What was the thing exactly that tied you together and made you work together through that period was it just close this or was it some shared goal or what was it?
1:04:24
[SPEAKER_05]: If you're referring to when we actually left, it was basically a shared goal that, hey, we all want to go home, and we've all gathered what we want from this experience.
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And to your point, whatever it might be, that brought a political party together, there was a common thing, right?
1:04:41
[SPEAKER_05]: And back when Trump was coming in, we were promised lower gases and cost of bread, drill, baby drill.
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_05]: And if a democratic party hadn't delivered to those people for so long, which I'm talking about the moderate left,
1:04:52
[SPEAKER_05]: they also got swung over.
1:04:53
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you take that into our experiences, the exact same thing, you know, we were ready to leave, then another group of people were ready to leave, then finally the lifers also found their reason to leave and we all kind of push together through it.
1:05:05
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's able to be seen anyway else, but how do you look as feel free to add on?
1:05:10
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I great.
1:05:10
[SPEAKER_05]: That's pretty much all I have.
1:05:12
[SPEAKER_06]: I would agree with you.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was my biggest takeaway too at the end because you guys all locked arms and we're like, hey, we're going to do this together where it would have just been easy to say, all right, double birds to all the cameras from everybody, grab your shit and just walk out.
1:05:29
[SPEAKER_04]: But you guys actually made it a point to show, hey, we're all together in this fuck you guys and we're out of here.
1:05:36
[SPEAKER_06]: We were honestly like two seconds from leaving without them.
1:05:39
[SPEAKER_06]: It was like last second, he came in and was like, oh, it's all through it together.
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_02]: As a full day argument, what do you think it was that got them over the the the resistant group over the hump exactly they just didn't want to be the last people left there What do you think it was just sunny not the ruin the ending but him giving his little speech and convincing his lifeers There wasn't no point to stay and we were just gonna set there and play cards
1:06:05
[SPEAKER_06]: And then we're going to do whatever he said anyway in a matter of what.
1:06:07
[SPEAKER_06]: So whatever.
1:06:08
[SPEAKER_02]: So like their silent leader.
1:06:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:06:10
[SPEAKER_05]: But I do think and I don't know if this is because we were on a reality show or they had a bigger agenda, but everybody in that very last moment.
1:06:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm serious.
1:06:19
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_05]: two minutes before we decide to walk out, everybody decided that it's a powerful message for whatever personal fucking agenda everyone had that we all lock arms and leave together.
1:06:30
[SPEAKER_05]: But that decision didn't happen until like literally right right at the end.
1:06:35
[SPEAKER_05]: So I can't speak to everyone's fucking personal agenda and why they saw it for Chris Lee.
1:06:39
[SPEAKER_05]: race relations with the black community via Mike for us it was like we were just ready to leave for the lifeers i think it was because sunny was this this guy and he's a military guy he has a great story actually i'm not gonna spoil the ending but like they all said wow sunny can do it so can i and then we all as a group had our own reasons and we looked at each other we're like now let's let's let's do it together you know
1:07:00
[SPEAKER_04]: So, Sunny was the quiet one, he was in the military and he was the most vulnerable and shared a story, his life was crying and everything else.
1:07:12
[SPEAKER_04]: again without giving away the ending.
1:07:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a hard cut to black that was kind of jarring to me at the end of the six episodes and I didn't know if that was Netflix saying hey dude, at the end of the day nobody cares about you guys and we're on to the next one.
1:07:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Was that deliberate or was that just part of the edited the ends?
1:07:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Like me and my wife were trying to figure
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I think with the ratings in the success of this, there will definitely be another season of this.
1:07:43
[SPEAKER_04]: They'll probably take all your notes and then up the stakes for the next one.
1:07:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And jack them up to where shit actually gets fucking wild.
1:07:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you'll have people who actually watch the show trying to get on the show and be like, I'm gonna be wilder.
1:07:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Then it'll be squid games, right?
1:07:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
1:07:56
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll just turn to that.
1:07:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I want them to do all women.
1:07:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be interesting to see you all.
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, shit.
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_03]: They've got to do it for a minimum of 28 days.
1:08:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not gonna explain why.
1:08:05
[SPEAKER_03]: You're gonna have to have that conversation with your mom.
1:08:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I think with guys like we could punch each other in the face and probably be cool the next day to point with most guys women there a lot more Caddy and Whole scratches go whole grudges here.
1:08:21
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be honestly that would be a lot.
1:08:24
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be really interesting.
1:08:25
[SPEAKER_06]: That's a great Really entertaining a
1:08:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Because even the social dynamics in those groups are a lot we are so for dudes, I'm curious about your all-three-year experience, your responses question.
1:08:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you feel like in general and then in this scenario that you react differently to orders or someone you respect rather than whether the order is justified or correct or not?
1:08:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Does it matter more that it's one of the rules being followed or that the person saying that you
1:08:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that comes down and it can be shown in the show from the women.
1:09:00
[SPEAKER_05]: When the women guard said something, we all just listened because we all came to the agreement that we are going to respect the women.
1:09:06
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not going to disrespect them.
1:09:08
[SPEAKER_05]: And when fucking the other, the three, the three stuages, I think I called them the goofy, goober squad.
1:09:14
[SPEAKER_05]: When they told us to do something, everyone kind of just looked at them.
1:09:16
[SPEAKER_05]: They were like, shut the fuck up, right?
1:09:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we're not going to listen to you.
1:09:19
[SPEAKER_05]: So I definitely, I definitely think that it's important
1:09:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and the interesting part about what you pitched about being all women the next time would be great because then you don't have to worry about dudes offending women and looking like a piece of shit on television.
1:09:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's just girls going out each other's throats and then there's guards and then there's inmates and if they flip halfway through.
1:09:44
[SPEAKER_04]: what the fuck would actually go down there and women it's going to be a lot wilder because there's going to be a lot more gossip and some other shit where his dudes to your point earlier you punch somebody in the face you get over it the next day and then you kind of move on with your life well they throw all some three men in there as guards too to like you know change it up as well because that would make it the dynamic crazy too
1:10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a bouncer and women did not care if you were secured here or not like they would fucking try to scratch my face every time everything else.
1:10:14
[SPEAKER_04]: I was a bouncer too.
1:10:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I got my face scratched every fucking time dude.
1:10:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Like if like every I don't know fucking second Saturday I had to put all of it all over my face and it was just scratch marks and I was like god damn it.
1:10:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Did they were worse than the dudes?
1:10:28
[SPEAKER_03]: What worse way worse?
1:10:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So, back to that respect thing, then, do you think that most people in life are obeying rules or are they obeying something they respect, and not just a person, by the way, an institution, right?
1:10:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you.
1:10:46
[SPEAKER_03]: you walk into somebody's house and you see this is a just a quick question for everybody.
1:10:52
[SPEAKER_03]: You walk into somebody's house and invite you over.
1:10:54
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't say a word about it, but you see a bunch of shoes at the front door.
1:10:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you take your shoes off?
1:10:59
[SPEAKER_03]: The answer is yes for most people, unless you're an asshole, right?
1:11:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's no rule posted.
1:11:05
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no communication that's happened.
1:11:06
[SPEAKER_03]: You just see that and most people are like, oh, we take our shoes off here and you respect.
1:11:12
[SPEAKER_03]: So it doesn't even have to be a person.
1:11:13
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an institution even.
1:11:14
[SPEAKER_03]: or rule that exists outside of a rule book that you do.
1:11:17
[SPEAKER_03]: So, are you do people obey orders because, well, this is the driving test, right?
1:11:27
[SPEAKER_03]: People only really obey orders they perceive as legitimate, or ones that there's a high risk of it fucking with them if they get caught.
1:11:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are the only times anybody most people follow rules, is it not?
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_06]: yes, I would agree.
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think people follow rules because it has something to do with respect and you know, who the rule is coming from, but I also think people are a lot of people are sheep and just follow rules just because that's what everyone else is doing to you know what I mean.
1:11:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:11:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the social norms in general.
1:11:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is.
1:11:59
[SPEAKER_03]: this is the big question.
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody thinks that if they had lived through some unjust system in history, they'd have been the one guy who resisted it.
1:12:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have punched that Nazi in the face or whatever, right?
1:12:11
[SPEAKER_03]: After doing this, do you believe that about yourself?
1:12:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I, you know, it's funny when I was, that one college, the one semester college I did, we, we discussed this and the professor was like, everyone raised your hand if you would have stopped the Nazi party and everyone raised their hand, obviously.
1:12:28
[SPEAKER_05]: And the professor said, you know what?
1:12:30
[SPEAKER_05]: I hate to tell you not one of you guys would have resisted the Nazi party.
1:12:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And when you think about it, when you think highly of yourself, you're like, yeah, I know I would resist.
1:12:37
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think when you actually put in the practice,
1:12:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Most people wouldn't.
1:12:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Most people would just just go along with the norm and the saddest quo and we've seen this throughout history as well.
1:12:48
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it even takes a time of following before you really go and try to reverse and get out of it.
1:12:54
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I think I would like to say that I would stop it, but I probably wouldn't, you know.
1:13:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm looking back on my life.
1:13:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it was a situation where something happened, and it was bad, and you kind of get swept up in the mob, and you're like, oh, we'll fuck it.
1:13:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Everybody else is doing it and all do it, right?
1:13:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, we would all love to say you'd resist, but when faced with it,
1:13:20
[SPEAKER_04]: There is very few leaders in this world, and that was kind of one of my biggest takeaways in this.
1:13:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Even that dude, man, Chris, you know, who knows if he's real or not or rich or poor or whatever, he seemed to portray the whole goddamn time.
1:13:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, he was, he was gung-ho on, I'm not a quitter, I want to stay, even though he wasn't a real fucking prisoner for Christ's sakes, and it just shocked my mind.
1:13:47
[SPEAKER_06]: we got in screaming matches over that whole thing with getting them to leave to like he was dead set on staying and I think he was a big part of it too was just him being a pain in the ass for whatever reason I think he was following the whole sunny crew in my opinion I didn't like of no yeah he did not like us so he was just going against what we were doing he's a contrarian
1:14:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
1:14:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, he was good at both.
1:14:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I will say that.
1:14:16
[SPEAKER_04]: He was going on both sides of it where you're like, all right.
1:14:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't hate the guy, but also it seems cheesy, but if you're actually saying that he did stay until the end and when actually wanted to do this, fucking ain't dude.
1:14:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I would just want to get out of there.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
1:14:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm curious about some of the other group dynamics.
1:14:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Was there any
1:14:39
[SPEAKER_03]: was there any period where one of the guards or some group of the guards maybe singled out one of the prisoners and was picking on them specifically and and if so what happened as a result of that like it did think had to was doing that yeah and what was the result that the other prisoners defend them to the guards stop on what happened there no
1:14:57
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, the Hudson and I think this is prior the day prior to my arrival and I just heard about it Hudson was disrespectful to one of the people and this other guy O3O actually voiced like, hey, you don't have to be disrespectful to him speak to us with respect will speak to you with respect, but I don't think there was any crazy like like really had bash with the guards besides the knuckle heads that you kind of see pushing the boundaries, but that was about it, you know.
1:15:23
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, and then last question here before we get out of here is, did you guys actually get to talk to the psychologists behind the scenes that were behind that mirror?
1:15:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you ever meet those guys?
1:15:33
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a woman a dude with a mustache and then the other guy who were kind of commenting on you guys as this was going on behind the mirth glass.
1:15:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't even know they were there until the end, like when we wrapped up and they told us about it.
1:15:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Really?
1:15:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we did you request like a conversation with them later of like, hey, you guys observed us every single second of the day, can you maybe tell me something about my personality trait that I should change or what could have gone differently, anything like done?
1:16:04
[SPEAKER_04]: No, but I'd like to see my file that they have on me.
1:16:08
[SPEAKER_02]: there was a there was a reunion film it probably won't be shown on Netflix we're not sure yet they haven't discussed that we got the briefly talked to him then but it wasn't like I did ask a question in the reunion like what was art your psychos psycho analysis on on me or something in the native answer it it would be cool to know the
1:16:29
[SPEAKER_05]: I think there is an actual experiment that was performed by the lady I forgot her name.
1:16:34
[SPEAKER_05]: She's actually like a, I don't know if she's a professor or a professor or a professor or something.
1:16:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but they told us in the background there was an actual study done on our time there.
1:16:45
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe in the future, that will be released now, be cool to see, but we're, I don't know.
1:16:51
[SPEAKER_04]: interesting man will uh... it was great to sit down and chat with you guys some now's the point that show we get to the drinking bro the week uh... which is somebody who's inspired you are helped to become the person you are today uh... hadley will start with you who's your drinking bro the week uh... probably my dad he's shaped me as a man
1:17:09
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, he taught me to question things and, you know, he's just an overall great guy and he's I got drunk in the last night, so he's my drinkin' bread with a week.
1:17:19
[SPEAKER_06]: Of course you did.
1:17:21
[SPEAKER_06]: You sound of a best dude.
1:17:22
[SPEAKER_06]: Of course you did.
1:17:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Lucas, what about you?
1:17:25
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess mine will go in line with Hadley's, but I didn't have a dad.
1:17:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna have to go with my mom.
1:17:31
[SPEAKER_02]: She's kind of with the one who made me who I am.
1:17:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And push me to go farther and farther and farther and farther and where I started.
1:17:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, drinking a bro is definitely my sister.
1:17:53
[SPEAKER_05]: She's always gone against the system.
1:17:55
[SPEAKER_05]: We also got the fuck up this weekend, and I said a joke.
1:17:58
[SPEAKER_05]: So she's mad at me.
1:17:59
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you're listening to this, I love you.
1:18:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Perfect, she can watch the video on Spotify tonight.
1:18:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Set sort of video deals on Spotify at 8 o'clock.
1:18:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Eastern tonight's pre-shay you guys for being on the show.
1:18:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was really cool seeing this because the advantage that everybody else is, let's say they do a second, third season and all other stuff.
1:18:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys were the first.
1:18:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So, everybody coming in is going to have some form of guide to go off of, and then kind of decide what they're going to do, but it was super fascinating and watch.
1:18:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I was not expecting that type of ending, and I think it left us all with questions on what we would have done in your situations on both sides of it.
1:18:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And I certainly enjoyed it, man, and that's all you can really ask for.
1:18:47
[SPEAKER_06]: You can find my business, eForMoffia official 2.0 and then had the underscore McDaniel for my personal stuff.
1:18:53
[SPEAKER_03]: 2.0 would you get banned for?
1:18:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Which means what's going on?
1:18:58
[SPEAKER_06]: Probably bullying.
1:18:59
[SPEAKER_06]: I think I've been banned a couple of times on social media.
1:19:01
[SPEAKER_06]: I've been banned like nine times on TikTok.
1:19:03
[SPEAKER_06]: Wow.
1:19:04
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the easiest place in the world to get banned, shit.
1:19:06
[SPEAKER_03]: It is.
1:19:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Lucas, what about you?
1:19:08
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to have to find it.
1:19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Lucas underscore Ryan 412 from my personal.
1:19:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, and then Sully, what about you?
1:19:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you can find me at average.bro.esthetic on TikTok and Instagram.
1:19:25
[SPEAKER_04]: average dot bro dot aesthetic big fan of that big fan of that thank you gentlemen go to iTunes right the show five star and leave a quick review also head on over to Spotify just to five star and you can walk away you can watch the new Stanford experiments right now all six episodes on Netflix it's still in the top ten man you guys are crushing
1:19:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for being here.
1:19:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for tuning in for Dan the Dan the new Holloway.
1:19:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm Ross Patterson.
1:19:58
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the drinking bro's podcast.
1:20:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Good.
1:20:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Not everyone.