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Becky Kopitzke on Making Money and Serving God with Your Writing · The Daily Writer

• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hey my friend, welcome to this Saturday edition of the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you've been listening to this show for a while, you're probably familiar with my story.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a pastor and then I was a teacher at a Christian college for a long time before I made ghostwriting and coaching my main gig.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I am extremely familiar with the tension that comes from wanting to make a living with writing, while also at the same time wrestling with guilt and uncertainty because of how the Christian community sometimes views money and commerce.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to bring you this conversation with my friend Becky Kapitsky to help shed some light on this issue and give us some new insights.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Becky is an author, blogger, writing coach, and co-founder of The Inspired Business, formerly Ministry to Business, which helps authors generate recurring income from digital products.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: At one time, Becky's husband called her author career a hobby since her income was no match to her expenses and the time she spent on it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: But she soon discovered that making money in ministry is biblical, it helps expedite our kingdom purposes, and it can contribute to and not drain the family income.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So in this conversation, we dive into some weighty issues surrounding ministry, calling, and money.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, we are definitely going there in this episode.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to dive into all the complicated issues surrounding this.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe not all the issues, but certainly a number of them.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, this was one of the most insightful and spirited conversations that I have been privileged to participate in this year.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're going to be inspired and challenged as well.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So here's my conversation with Becky Kapitsky.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Becky, welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is a pleasure and an honor to have you.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for making time to do this.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Kent.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for having me.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So glad that we were able to touch base and connect.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, of course, we have our mutual friend Kim Stewart to thank for that.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so so glad that she did that.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give her a shout out for the awesome work that she's doing and connecting people, which is such an important thing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is like a skill set.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such a highly valuable skill set in and of itself, just connecting people.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Connecting people and to have a heart to do that because as you and I were just talking in pre-recording, it's so important to find like-minded people in the industry that we work in.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so with people who are gifted to connect us, that's a special gifting in itself.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I truly appreciate Kim and I love her dearly.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that we are giving her a little shout out here today.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we are here to tackle a um topic that might be a little controversial.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not known as a person who's who does a lot of controversy on my podcast.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: However, I do think it is important to tackle important topics and to let people know about opportunities and just to kind of dig into things that are key issues that we're dealing with today.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So one of those issues is the idea of being called by God to do something, being in a ministry situation, doing something that has a spiritual backbone to it, so to speak, but then also wondering if it's okay to make an income or make money or build a business around that thing.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the struggle that so oftentimes we have in the Christian community, particularly the evangelical world, is that we think that making money from something and something being spiritual or ministry focused are two completely different things.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really thankful you're here to talk about this because I mean you've written a whole book about this.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, and you've put in lots and lots of thought and have had many conversations with people over the years about this issue.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, where do you think is a good place to start with this?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: We've opened up a whole can of worms, I guess.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we have, we have.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's start with refuting the naysayers who tell us that if it's ministry, you can't make money from it.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: If it is tied to the gospel, then you should not profit from it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I absolutely agree the Bible does say you should not profit from the gospel.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: But if you read the context of that discussion, it has to do with false teachers who were coming in with lessons and information that was actually not accurately gospel.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: And those of us who are in ministry are not of the heart to share false information.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: We do it because we want to spread truth.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So in that case, we have information that God has equipped us with, we have talents that He has equipped us with.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it is okay to generate income that supports that ministry as long as our intent is to be honest and genuine with the message.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that because it's biblically supported in that, of course, the worker deserves his wages.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: The Proverbs 31 woman made sure that her trading was profitable.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so the the core question here is are you trying to sway people from truth or are you trying to share truth with them?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And if the worker deserves his or her wages, then that means for the Christian, any job is ministry.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Any job is ministry.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: The dentist runs a ministry, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: As a believer, or the the barista at Starbucks, she her work is ministry if that's what God has gifted her and called her to do.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: Any job is supposed to be ministry.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: So why if the job that God has called me to do, if that happens to be tied to writing Christian books, writing Christian blog posts, coaching other faith-based communicators, why then is that not worthy of money?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: You wouldn't tell the dentist that you're not going to pay for your filling.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So again, what it's a heart issue.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: Are you trying to spread truth?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you trying to spread lies?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you're trying to spread lies, then then um, of course, do not profit from the gospel.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but our hearts is not to value money over God, it's to work within the economy he's placed us so that we can create a foundation of income that supports the work he called us to do.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about burnout, Kent.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see this in a lot of people?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Burnout.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I see it a lot.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I particularly see it in women.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right now.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't really give you necessarily uh I couldn't tick off a list of here's the 17 reasons why I would say that.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had enough conversations over the last year, probably some of this due to the pandemic or the last couple of years.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably some of it due to the women that I've talked to about this tend to be um, I would say I'm just kind of said, like from 30 to 60.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of in that age range where you have kids or you're coming out of those those years of having kids or or just like feeling tired.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had enough of these conversations to just really think like, what's going on with with women in in our culture that there's so much burnout and frustration and tiredness.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel uh I feel like a very clueless man even putting that out there, to be honest with you, because I'm like, okay, I see this, I don't know what the solutions are.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just a guy with a podcast, but I've seen enough of it to where my the red flags for me are going up.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what's really going on here?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: In in my case, I am in circles of other female Christian writers, Christian bloggers, Christian podcasters, um, women who want to teach the Bible, and they are called to do it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: They're called by God.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's a calling for them.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: The opportunities they have in which to do that are primarily volunteer.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or if they are running a blog or writing books, often their own beliefs about whether or not it's okay to make money or what's been spoken into them causes them to think I can't generate an income from this.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, they end up, I've done, I have done this.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've personally siphoned my own family bank account in order to support my writing career.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I have three traditionally published books under my belt, and each one of them is a blessing.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Each one of them is a tremendous gift that God allowed me to write those books.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I pray He will continue to allow me to write more books.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm a little smarter about it now, in that in the beginning, I thought I can't really look at this as a business.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is a ministry.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I got an advance from my publisher and I reinvested it all in the marketing because I just needed to get the word out.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I continued along that path until my husband looked at me and said, This is a hobby.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: This is not a business, because we spend money for you to support your publisher.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: And knowing that I wanted to continue, I had to fix that because it was it was causing discord in the family.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was not sustaining my ministry financially.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a church who can't sustain themselves financially goes under, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: The church in its isn't is in itself a business.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so too do our, you know, those of us who work independently or women who work in ministry, there's got to be a foundation of financial support, or you will burn out.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: You won't be able to keep doing the work God called you to do if there's not some floor of income.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I wrestled with that for a long time until I finally came to a conclusion that first of all, it was biblical to earn an income.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And secondly, um, it was necessary if I was going to continue doing the work I was called to do because it wasn't feasible anymore to keep draining my family bank account.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: It just wasn't.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And not honoring to my husband, quite honestly.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we can go down that road, but we won't.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's another conversation.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: What were some of the ways that you that you started to pivot in your business?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of question, you know, and I know I mean there's lots of directions we could go with this, but I know you have a big emphasis on digital products.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: So is that something you want to you want to take a few minutes to talk about that?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: As to how you actually address this issue?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of ways that you can generate income from the creative work that you do.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, those of us who are creatives, who are writers, a lot of ways that you can generate income.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, it's interesting you ask that because one of the first products that I created was actually a digital guide helping other authors and podcasters determine through 20 different strategies how they could generate income from the work that they do.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: And those 20 different strategies included things like freelance work and ghostwriting, like you're so familiar with, Kent, and and um, and advertising or advertising networks on their blogs or all sorts of things.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then eventually that digital product, that 90-page guide, sold so well that I decided to niche my focus down into helping other people create products like that, digital products, using their skills, using their writing skills.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe people have design skills or speaking skills.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many ways you can use the skills God has given you to generate a product that you sell through.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, don't get afraid, it's called a sales funnel.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people hear these tech.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm just kidding.
• 11:30
  unknown: Right.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: They hear the people I can hear the listeners' heads exploding.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh are they talking, are they gonna do the sales thing?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I gotta have a business and I just want to be creative.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And but yeah, it's part of it.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's part of it.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: But there I I personally have grown to love sales funnels because to me they they require a lot of creativity and I love that about it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: But essentially, how how can you use the skills you have to sell a product online to better serve your audience, to enhance how you serve your audience while you grow that audience and generate income so that when the book comes out, you have a bigger pool of people to sell it to.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And these people already have been interacting with you through other products and other means.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so to me, the synergy is fantastic.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where I that's where I focus.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: But there are certainly a lot of ways to monetize the work that you do.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I know people don't like that word monetize.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, it just means how do you generate an income to support your ministry work, to support your writing career.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you've been called to write a book, you gotta write that book.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: But if you get burnt out in the process because you can't sustain it, then the world is gonna be robbed of your voice.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: The world is gonna be robbed of your book.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't want that to happen.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think there's now I probably shouldn't say this as a ghostwriter because this is my livelihood and and I really value books, but books are only one way that we can get a message out there.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, we're talking on a podcast right now.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's blogs, there's social media.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: There, I mean, there's there's all kinds of different ways to communicate with people, and books is only one way.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't just have to be books.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can write a book, you can I'm just gonna put it out there.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you can write a book, you can do freelance writing.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think ghostwriting is always a great potential income opportunity.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking as somebody who this is what I do for my full-time job now.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there's gosh, there's so many opportunities out there.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of takes opening yourself up to it and connecting with people like yourself who who really have an expertise in helping people figure out what direction to go with this.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you made the switch, right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at one point to to ghostwriting as a primary source of income.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's using the skills God gave you.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Those books may not have some of them may have your name on them, some of them may not.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: But depends on how you negotiate the contract, but right?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I know, right?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: But in in which case, look at how you have been able to generate an income that sustains you able to do the work that God has called you to do, and you use the skills he's given you to do.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I just there's so many ways that we can do that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's just getting over the obstacle of thinking I shouldn't be earning income in the first place.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really hard to do that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I don't I don't want to throw anybody into the bus.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: However, you know, whenever people say that those like, well, okay, he's gonna throw somebody under the bus, kind of, I guess.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I I remember this has been years ago, one of our administrators at at our the school where I used to work, uh, literally, and I'm saying their exact words in a faculty meeting one time, they said, you know, we have a I think we were talking about salaries or something like that in compensation.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: He said, We we sort of operate on a mission model mindset here, which basically means we're treating you guys like missionaries, which in the Christian world is code language for we're gonna pay you like as little as possible.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when he said that, my eye or my my ears kind of perked up, and I was like, oh.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of have that realization, and I'm not trying to dog on anybody necessarily.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm just saying, my I kind of woke up to the situation, like, okay, if I want to earn any more than what I'm getting paid here, I need to, I need to do something else.
• 15:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm immensely grateful for that whole situation because it forced me to then figure out how can I mark up my skills and how can I connect with people.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, so many times we look at the situation we're in and we're upset about it or we're unhappy with it in some way.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But man, if if we can use that dissatisfaction to to fuel us then to do something else, then that can be a really good thing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: It can be a good thing.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And let's talk about why you might desire more income in the first place.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I think that's this is a great piece of the conversation.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is the point of having this?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I always like to say it's not, it's never for the money itself.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: We don't desire money for the sake of accumulating money.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's just numbers.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's just numbers.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and a friend of mine said recently, I and this really struck me, she said, money is a renewable resource.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: We it's we're not meant to hoard it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we we can spend it and make more money.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I like to think of what why would you desire a greater income?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not even necessarily some people, it might be for purely selfish motives, but I would truly hope that as people with a ministry mindset, we would recognize what that money can do.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And if exactly we've been gifted with the ability to generate it, that in itself is a gift that we can use to support kingdom work.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, what can that income do?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have the ability to make it and you're leaving it on the table, that's a conversation you need to have with God, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And and maybe he has called you to be a lower income in in a lower income career.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Have that conversation with him.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not sin if God is asking you to use your skills to generate more resources that you can then use to continue supporting more people and to grow the kingdom through that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, think, and not even just in terms of I can support more missionaries, or what about offering a scholarship to someone who really wants to attend one of your coaching programs or a school, or just think of all the ways that you can utilize more income to help people who aren't in a position to earn it.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's about what the money can do.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's gosh, that is such an important thing.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, and and I I take a lot of joy in the things that I get to do for clients and I love podcasting and I love doing my own books and all that.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that has brought me the most joy, honestly, over the last six months is I've been able to hire a couple of writers to help me with projects, knowing that that helps their family.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, I pay my I feel like I pay my writers pretty well.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I feel like I pay them sort of above a little bit above, you know, what the market would say because I want to treat people well and very easy to work with.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it brought me so much joy to be able to hire those couple of writers, you know, because now I'm charging enough for my ghostwriting projects where I can reasonably hire people and I'm like, man, that is so cool to be able to get to help their family and give them some steady work for a few months.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it is cool.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's what you can do whenever whenever you increase your skills enough so you can raise your prices and you can serve other people and bless them.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's huge.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I was just having a conversation this morning with um my my colleague.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: So in my business is called the Inspired Business, and I have one team member that I work with very closely, and we were talking about a new project that we're about to undertake in the next six months and just sort of dreaming about the possibilities for it.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we think we've we've hit an area where there's the potential for great growth, and we were really excited, especially excited, about the idea of how this might enable us to hire more people.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: And we were specifically thinking of those female ministry leaders who want to be able to work in a way that allows them to be home with their kids.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I don't mean to label anybody.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: There are many women out there who want to work, be in the workplace and go where God has called you.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: But there are, I am surrounded by many of them who want the flexibility to be home with their children, to homeschool their children or whatever it might be, and to be able to offer those employment opportunities to women who will be blessed by the work that God gave me to share.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's huge.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've just been really opening my eyes to this over probably the last five years, the potential for building a business, not because we want to follow the world's view of you got to be making a million dollars.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Here's how to get six figures a month.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so much, so much language out there.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of business coaches who are going to tell you you're not succeeding unless you're in a million-dollar business.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not for the sake of having a million-dollar business, right?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's for the sake of whatever income God is going to bless you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you have the ability to run a business, if you have the ability to sell products, think about how that income and that business growth can impact more people who will then go out and impact more people.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that to me is what it's is so exciting about it.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need a, you know, I don't need a vacation home or my husband and I, we drive our old beaters till they die.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not about and that's on principle.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so it's not necessarily about accumulating stuff.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's about what money can do within this economy where God has placed us.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's so funny because I I've never really understood sort of the whole bling kind of lifestyle.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I grew up, honestly, I grew up in a double wide trailer in southern Missouri as a kid.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very middle class, lived out in the country.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I've never been sort of enamored with the massive mansions and the super fancy cars.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I drive a 2002 Ford Ranger.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, I drive an old truck.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my wife actually has a much nicer car because she commutes to work.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually think our car is about 20 years old too.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're in the same boat.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think what is what is really interesting though is I for I totally forgot what I was gonna say.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you ever get on a podcast and you're like, I had a thought and it just totally went away.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like the all the time, all the time, and it was so brilliant, too, you know?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I don't know if it was brilliant, but it was the thought that was there, then it just went away, uh, like a wisp of the wind.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But but anyway, yeah, I I've never really understood sort of this whole on the subculture of the entrepreneur kind of uh population that's like you gotta have like this certain crazy level of income, and so you can sit on a beach in Maui with your laptop.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know, I'm one of those people I don't really like the beach.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think the beach is hot and dirty and messy, it's crowded.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand what's appealing about it, but that's just me.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was on the beach a couple of weeks ago, and I have to agree with you.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just let me sit inside and read.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, me too.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of that girl too.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny you say that because after 20 years, my husband and I returned a few weeks ago to the Caribbean, which is where we honeymooned and we brought our daughters with us to celebrate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Our 20th wedding anniversary, and one of them said, Yeah, I just want to swim in the pool that beach.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that Caribbean beach is not on the ocean, you know, and all that stuff.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: God's beauty, his creation.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes God's creation is a little just dirty and smelly.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do remember what I was going to throw out there, actually.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one of the interesting things that I have found in my my ghostwriting business is that I really love to work with people who do have a ministry background.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for anybody who's listening, one of the things that I really appreciate about people who have either been in volunteer roles or they've worked in a church or some kind of Christian organization is that by and large, they really have a servant's heart.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: They understand people skills.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they have a sensitivity to working with a range of all kinds of people issues.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And interestingly enough, uh, I and I was really surprised to learn this that the skills that I learned as a college professor and as a pastor, all those things factored heavily into building a ghostwriting business.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because ghostwriting, you do a lot of listening, you're creating content, you're you're writing.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, part of ghostwriting and part of working with people as a coach is therapy, in a sense.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because you have to be a good listener.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, whenever you're writing a book, it's a scary thing.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: You're putting yourself out there.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that has been really surprising to me.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody who's listening who is in a ministry situation, man, you've got really great skills that can translate into the business community for sure.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a wonderful thought, actually.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: I hadn't really considered that before.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: Pastors are some of the most prolific writers on the planet.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: They've got to they've got to show up every Sunday with something new and appealing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, I came from the world of worship ministry.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, gosh, as a worship pastor, you're dealing with you're you're an event planner, you are uh therapists because you're working with creative and artistic people, which can get a little crazy sometimes.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: It can.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I've been on our church worship team for 18 years.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it really can't.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: We might need a little more help than the rest of the population.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, really, honestly, being a pastor is similar to being an entrepreneur in a lot of ways.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're juggling a lot of different balls.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's very people-oriented, you got to think on your feet.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's a really fantastic connection, actually, now that you say that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, the heart to serve.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: In the end, why are we writing books?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because we want to change people with our content.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: We want to impact our lives.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: We're serving, and and we believe we have something we can share with them that will ultimately transform them in some way.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what publishers are looking for, too.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what's in it for the reader?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's always about what's in it for the reader, whether you're the author or the publisher, that's it's about the end user.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, and in in my case, I find that digital products is another way to serve your audience well.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of ways that you can serve your audience well and generate an income from it.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I like to tell people who are afraid of selling that, you know, the whole idea of, well, I don't want to sound salesy, I don't want to, I don't want to sell out, you know, or especially authors who've worked really hard to build an audience and are afraid of what the audience is going to think now if they try to offer something in exchange for money.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: People understand they have to buy books, but even then, there are so many.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: I would, when every time one of my books comes out, I mean this kindly, uh, several people will always be commenting in a maybe a Facebook stream or something.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Great, can I borrow that book from you?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Or is it at the library?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, but can you just shell out the$12 and 93 cents?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You seriously don't have$10 or$15 where you can buy a book.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like seriously?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe, maybe some people don't.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Some people truly don't, but you know, but the pe but I but again consider you are essentially helping to support an author who is in this, not necessarily for the money.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: There are other ways to generate income that may not be through your books.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I I think where I'm where I meant to go with that is people who are afraid to sell, afraid to turn off their audience that they built so hard.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like to encourage them that the right audience, the people who are meant to be in their audience, often products, selling, messages, they're all meant to solve a problem.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: They're meant to solve a problem.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you've identified a problem that your audience has and you have a solution to it, the people who are in your audience who who have the problem that you've offered a solution for will be grateful to you for offering the product.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be grateful for the solution.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so we need to get over that obstacle and realize that what you're offering is something of value to them.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're not trying to convince them of it.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're saying, wow, look at this thing I've got that's gonna help.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can think of a dozen problems I have right now that I would love somebody to walk up to me and say, I have a solution to that problem.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, here it is right here.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I will gladly exchange money for that.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a it's a mind shift, I think, in recognizing we're serving people with our products, we're serving people with our books.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, it's okay to place a monetary value on that if doing so allows you to keep doing the work.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I I wonder too, sometimes if our reluctance to market things is is because we sometimes misunderstand what marketing is.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, marketing really is serving.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if we market well, that is serving your audience well.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's getting the word out about what you do and about helping more people.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if we can get past that that mindset issue, that that obstacle of thinking that we're just trying to ram stuff towards people and just we're trying to push stuff toward them and we're just trying to make more money, that really kind of misunderstands the whole sales process.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of us don't we really love to be sold to in a fun way?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like whenever Apple comes out with something new that's truly useful, yeah, I'll consider buying it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right now I'm talking to you via uh a MacBook Pro that's a little over a year old.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: I bought a bought a newer one last year after using my old one for a long time.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I loved it, I loved it when they are trying to sell me on this because like, man, this is gonna be so helpful.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if we have something helpful to share, is aren't we really doing them a great service?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: By by selling and marketing in the correct way.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: In the correct way, right.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: In and that's another thing.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I in this, I also don't mean this to be misinterpreted, but I tell my clients that don't think of marketing as advertising, don't think of it as peddling or persuading someone, don't think of it as trying to convince someone to buy something.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think of it as, in a sense, evangelism.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: And again, not because we're profiting from the gospel, but think of what is evangelism.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know you've got a solution to their problem in Jesus Christ.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Most believers are eager to share that information.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you know you have a solution to a problem that you can deliver with your product, why wouldn't you share it with the same enthusiasm that you use to share the solution to the biggest problem in the world?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's sharing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, and again, please don't misunderstand.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying that you should get paid for evangelism or get paid to share that's not what I mean.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: But your enthusiasm towards sharing something you believe in.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're talking, if you're if you're a believer and you're talking to someone about Jesus, most of us would have an enthusiasm about that.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: We believe you have a product that can help people, don't be afraid.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Understand that it it can solve their problem.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if it doesn't, if it's not, if they don't want your problem, your product, even if they unfollow you, that's okay because that person is typically not your ideal audience member anyway.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So Becky, where is the where's the place where people can get started with this?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: So they're hearing us talk and and you know, somebody's listening and saying, okay, I want to take the next step.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they they got a book coming out, they're working on a book, maybe they have some books already published.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: What would be the the next logical step in doing a first digital product of some kind?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I if you don't mind me sharing, I have a first step that I offer.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a masterclass.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I have a free one-hour masterclass on how to get started in digital products or essentially in we touch a lot on too on this idea of shifting your focus from I'm afraid to make money to understanding it's okay to do it, and here's why, and here's how you're gonna do it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So and um, and if that's okay, if I share that, absolutely source, certainly there are other resources, but why don't I why don't I give you mine?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't plan this beforehand, by the way.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, we didn't.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we didn't, but um, but that's a great question.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that my heart is to help people get started.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of my clients are starting from the beginning and they don't understand even what is a digital product and how do I get embarked on this?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you can find that free masterclass at the spirebusiness.co slash register.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you can pick a convenient time to watch it.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's done it offered all the time on replay.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: And we talk about the idea of switching your mindset from one of hobby to one of pursuing a business and then the steps that it takes to start doing digital products and how you can use the gifts you've already been given to create them.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and from there, then I, you know, of course, it's it's a masterclass that has a lot of valuable information.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: But from there, you also have an opportunity to enroll in a coaching program that I have on that topic.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're not interested in that, fine, just take advantage of the one hour of free information.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: I highly encourage people to do that because my heart is to equip more people to get into a field of work that can that can sustain their calling so they can keep doing it.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Whether or not you enroll in my program, that does not matter.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I believe in my program, but it's not going to be right for everyone.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: But if you want some insight on how to get started, then watch that masterclass, be encouraged, just recognize it is possible for you to generate an income that can sustain the work you've been called to do and to serve your audience well and to grow your audience.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's the beautiful thing for me about digital products is that you grow your audience while you're earning an income.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: And when that then when the book comes out, like I said earlier, you've got this built-in group of people who already are used to being served by you and trust you.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, hopefully we'll buy your book instead of getting it from the library.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if they do, that's that's great too, as long as they read it somewhere.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: As long as they read it, because again, it's all about it's all about serving people.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's about serving people.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: And some people will exchange dollars for that service, some of them will not.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: So offer, I always offer something for free.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: My blog is always for free.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: My masterclass will always be for free.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: But then for those who want to take it a step further, it's okay for me to exchange your money for my services.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always offering something for free and I love doing that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: But it's I also believe that my time is valuable, my night, my insight, my knowledge is valuable.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can solve your problem, then you recognize that value and you'll give it a monetary exchange.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's okay.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's healthy.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's very healthy because that means we can give people an opportunity of a variety of ways to engage with us.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, something for free, something that's really inexpensive, something that's mid-tier, something that's that's way more expensive if they want more access or direct help or whatever it is.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's, you know, again with this mindset thing, sometimes we are really robbing people of the opportunity to help them at a deep level if we don't offer something that's more of a higher tier item.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, true.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because some people, some people will want to pay for that.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: They'll want direct coaching or they'll want the higher price program or whatever it is that we're offering.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And if we don't offer that, it's not just a matter of we're sort of robbing ourselves, we're robbing that person.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people have more money than time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to mess with going through all the the books and the courses and stuff.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: They just want us to do the work for them or help them directly.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I would just really encourage people to offer something at that level too, because some people will pay for that.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they'll be thrilled to do that.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I had an experience just recently where I was I caught a$27 offer from someone on a Facebook ad.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I really wanted to know more.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to work one-on-one with this person, but she didn't offer anything beyond the starter point.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I needed to know more, but I didn't have the opportunity to do that.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would have loved it.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: If she had had some sort of a higher-end offer, I would have bought it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a really good illustration, actually.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: What you just said, Kent.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: We it's it's again, it's not being salesy, it's offering something people will value and making it possible for them to be transformed by your insight, your knowledge, and your skills.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And gosh, that's a whole nother.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're I'm gonna have to have you back sometime.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to talk about pricing and the psychology behind that.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is such a critical thing because the pricing communicates the value of what we do.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if we really underprice what we're doing, then people aren't gonna value it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that is a whole psychology in itself, isn't it?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: And testing.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it all goes back to beta.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Once you're running these sales funnels, again, nobody crawl under the desk, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because you hear the word sales funnel, but it it's it's an art and a science.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Pricing is and yeah, we're I think we're always kind of uh testing it out to see what where the sweet spot is, right?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: But then the sweet spot shifts as your business grows.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, that's another type.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: That is so true.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, I could.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is a whole nother conversation.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm thinking of specifically my ghostwriting business when it comes to that.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: It just, you know, the more that I go on with my business, the more that my that my prices are shifting.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and you, I'm sure you've had this experience at times where sometimes you price something at a certain point and they immediately say yes, and you're like, Oh man, I could have asked for like, you know, I could have asked for more with that, and they would have been happy to pay it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I that way I would would have been able to spend more time on their project and make it even better.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, but we learn, we learn as we go.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: We learn as we go.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the beautiful thing is the more experience you get, the more um support you have for charging those higher prices or for being more selective about your clients and which projects you want to take on.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I look back to what I might have charged three years ago, and I don't kick myself because it's less than what I charge today.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I look at that as having been an opportunity to build my skills and my credibility.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, but I just had a recent experience too where I kicked myself because I left money on the table.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, here's my price.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, no problem.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Take it right away.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, darn.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're all in transition and we're all on a journey, I guess.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: But this has been a wonderful, a really wonderful conversation.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: How can people find out more about what you do, your books, your coaching, all the all the things?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: All the things.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for asking.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, all of my business coaching, my digital products coaching, my um my passion for helping other creatives and entrepreneurs and authors is found at theinspired business.co.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's co where a dot co not as dot com.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I also have a personal branded website for the books that I've written and published, and that's just my name, Becky Kopitsky.com.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I have kind of a dual audience.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I've got people who read my books primarily, faith-based um parenting and and um lifestyle books.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then coaching others is at the inspirebusiness.com.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm in the same boat, so I've got my own, you know, name website, and then I've got my my business stuff.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think many of us are doing uh that kind of thing.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, isn't it crazy?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of got your your hands in two different pots, but they there's synergy between them.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I really believe if I'm gonna be a good coach, I better be, I better be walking the talk.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I continue to be a working writer, and um, that's why I've got this website, and then over here I'll teach you how to how I manage that website.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: I agree, I love it.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Becky, thanks again.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: This has been an absolute blast.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I want just want to take a second to acknowledge the value that you're adding to the world and to people.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I love what you're doing around ministry and mindset and pricing and attitudes.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: That is such a helpful conversation.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think, particularly as we see a lot of people who are in ministry situations are kind of rethinking their career choices.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I don't want to like talk bad about ministry things.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's not my intention at all.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the reality is that there are a lot of shifts happening and and people are just rethinking their career paths.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's good to it's good that people like you in the world exist who can speak such a positive, uh such a positive tone and positive information into those transitions and helping us all just to think bigger and be more inspired.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I really appreciate that.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you, Ken.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate your kind words.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: That blesses me today.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for what you do and for sharing this podcast.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's such a tremendous blessing to so many people.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I appreciate that.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's only my honor.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, wasn't that an insightful conversation?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed having Becky on this episode to talk through some of these issues because a lot of people wrestle with these things.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that you have taken away from insights, whether or not you come from a faith-based background, as I do.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would say my main takeaway from this conversation is that as writers, we shouldn't be afraid to make money.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you are in a ministry position, even if you work for a Christian organization or you're in some kind of faith-based uh employment situation, you should not be afraid to start a side hustle.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: You should not be afraid of money because the more resources that we have, the more good that we can do in the world.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to set your family up for success.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to leave something for your kids.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's really hard to be to be more generous with other people if you don't have those resources yourself.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that this has challenged you and encouraged you to raise the value of what you do and to think of yourself as a business person and to be comfortable with making more money in what you do.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because, again, the more that you have, the more good that you can do in the world.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Money gives you options.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really the bottom line of what it comes down to.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: The more that we are blessed in our lives, the more that we can bless other people.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that you've enjoyed this conversation.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I want to encourage you to check out Becky's website, which is BeckyKapitzki.com, as well as theinspired business.com.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Also make sure and connect with Becky on social media and her YouTube channel.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have links to all those in the show notes.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this was a challenging episode, but I hope that this has again inspired you to be more and to do more so that you can serve other people at a higher level.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening to today's episode.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take a moment to let you know about our daily writer membership community.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the very best ways to develop better habits and impact more people's lives with your writing is to spend time around other successful writers.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're tired of feeling isolated and chasing success on your own, then I know you're gonna love the Daily Writer community.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: For years I searched for the kind of writing community that I would want to join.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I can never find what I wanted, so I created my own.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the features include weekly writing sprints, monthly community calls, book discussions, calls with guest experts, and much more.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: For more info, you can visit dailywriterlife.comslash community.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, and I'll see you tomorrow.