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Why You Should Never Give Away Your Real Estate · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Tod Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with the Masters in Taxation. Welcome Todd.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: How are you today?
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I am never better in you.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great? Thank you. What do you have for us
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  Speaker 2: this week?
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  Speaker 3: Couple things. We've got a California Pellet Court case dealing
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  Speaker 3: with people getting divorced, and you can't imagine how this works,
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  Speaker 3: but you want to make sure that you do things
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  Speaker 3: when you get divorced because you could die during the divorce.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we've seen that happen in times, and.
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  Speaker 3: That's really what happened here. They had a revocable trust
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  Speaker 3: and she tried to revoke the trust while they were
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  Speaker 3: going through the divorce, and then she died during the divorce.
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  Speaker 3: So is it good that she revoked the trust or not?
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  Speaker 3: And did she revoke the trust prior to the divorce.
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  Speaker 3: So we'll talk about that, and then we'll talk about
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  Speaker 3: some things you should always think about when you're doing
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  Speaker 3: your planning for just regular planning, never mind divorce. Then
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  Speaker 3: we head over to Texas and Susan. This is a
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  Speaker 3: case that I could not resist taking because it deals
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  Speaker 3: with the same saying that we talk about over and
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  Speaker 3: over and that is, never give away your real estate.
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  Speaker 3: In this case, she gave away your real estate to
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  Speaker 3: her in laws, and then of course divorce came. This
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  Speaker 3: is never good. Right, Well, we'll explain the whole fact pattern.
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  Speaker 3: But folks, the whole point here is why are we
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  Speaker 3: giving away property? Never mind that, why are we giving
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  Speaker 3: it up a generation. There's just this case is just
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  Speaker 3: fraught with problems, but we've got solutions right. And again, folks,
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  Speaker 3: planning in advance is always good, but sometimes things happen
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  Speaker 3: and you either haven't planned and you might be heading
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: into like a nursing home. So there's last minute Medicaid
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  Speaker 3: Eligibility Guide that we're giving away this month, and it
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  Speaker 3: helps us for people that either maybe have planned and
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  Speaker 3: put some stuff in trusts, but inevitably there's always going
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  Speaker 3: to be a portion of assets that are not in trust.
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  Speaker 3: But if you haven't planned, then there's a whole lot
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  Speaker 3: of assets that are at risk either way. If you
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  Speaker 3: find yourself entering a nursing home and you need to
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  Speaker 3: get this guide so as not to write the check,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: it will find out. It will tell you what to
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  Speaker 3: do with countable non countable assets. It tells you how
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  Speaker 3: to treat rental property homes, vacation homes, whether you're married
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: or single. There's different rules to what's accountable and what's not.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Even last minute call and get it Last Minute Medicaid
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: Eligibility Guide eight six six eight four eight five six
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  Speaker 3: ninety nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com again eight
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  Speaker 3: six six eight, four, eight, five, six ninety nine or
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  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange show dot com. And you can always go
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: to Cushing Dolan PC at our Instagram page. Where are
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  Speaker 3: we going? California? Yeah, yeah, let's talk about this. So
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  Speaker 3: Gary and Linda they're married in nineteen seventy one, and
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  Speaker 3: they create a revocable joint trust. Now this is a
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  Speaker 3: community property state in California. Not sure it makes that
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  Speaker 3: big of a difference here, community property state. And in
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  Speaker 3: twenty and they create this revocable trust in two thousand
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  Speaker 3: and two. Okay, both of them are trust which is normal,
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  Speaker 3: and they each have the individual power to revoke the
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  Speaker 3: trust by delivering a written notice to the other trustee. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: oh seems fine. Those are all good things so far.
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  Speaker 3: Of course, twenty nineteen comes along and Linda files for
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  Speaker 3: dissolution of the marriage. Well she also when that happens,
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  Speaker 3: you get this automatic transfer restriction order automatically applies. You
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  Speaker 3: cannot transfer any property once you file for divorce without
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  Speaker 3: written consent of the other party. Right, it makes sense.
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  Speaker 3: We've got to gather the assets and find out.
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  Speaker 2: Can't be hid.
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  Speaker 3: Who's going to do what? So Linda decided to give
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  Speaker 3: written notice to Gary to revoke the trust. Okay, Gary
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  Speaker 3: acknowledges receipt of the notice. However, the notice is never
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  Speaker 3: filed with any court. So Gary's attorney objects to the
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  Speaker 3: validity of the revocation because it was not filed with
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  Speaker 3: the court. Attorney said, well, you can do this because
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  Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be filed with the court. It
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  Speaker 3: just said that you had to give notice to the
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  Speaker 3: other side, so there should be no problem here. And
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  Speaker 3: Gary ended up not challenging the revocation. Okay, sounds like
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  Speaker 3: it's revoked. Linda dies in twenty twenty four. Not helpful
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  Speaker 3: because she's not done being divorced.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, they're still in the midst of.
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  Speaker 3: It, and so the marital dissolution is dismissed. Gary then
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  Speaker 3: decides to file for a petition to claim that the
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  Speaker 3: revocation was in fact invalid and now he's the sole
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  Speaker 3: trustee and probably in control of all the assets in
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  Speaker 3: the trust, not half so. Linda's daughter Julie, who was
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  Speaker 3: the trustee of Linda's trust, the successor trustee in Linda's trust,
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  Speaker 3: objected and the probate court denied Gary's petition. Good yep,
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  Speaker 3: Gary's interest in the truss. The court said was not
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  Speaker 3: affected by the revocation, and Linda did comply with the
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  Speaker 3: trust requirements for the revocation and she never transferred any
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  Speaker 3: assets to violate the atro order. Okay, so far, so good.
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  Speaker 3: Gary appeals and the appellate Court affirmed, basically saying that
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  Speaker 3: too bad Gary. She didn't transfer anything, and she didn't
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  Speaker 3: transfer any assets, didn't dispose of any assets. She just
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  Speaker 3: revoked the trust and she did it right.
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  Speaker 2: And he didn't contest it when she initially did it.
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  Speaker 3: So I think they got the answer right. Yeah, but
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  Speaker 3: there's so much to learn here.
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  Speaker 2: You're going to revoke a trust, don't you have to
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  Speaker 2: take everything out?
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  Speaker 3: No?
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  Speaker 2: No, no, no.
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  Speaker 3: You don't have to right away in case plus you
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  Speaker 3: can't because there's a transfer restriction order. So it just
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  Speaker 3: sits there and waits until and then it would be dissolving.
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  Speaker 3: Then it would be distributed out accordingly. As if it doesn't,
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  Speaker 3: you know where it goes upon termination, right, just because
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  Speaker 3: it's terminated, it's always time for it to come out, right,
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  Speaker 3: But there's language that says, you know upon termination where
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  Speaker 3: it goes. So here, the revoicable trust planning, by the way,
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  Speaker 3: was good, right. I mean, at the end of the
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  Speaker 3: day they were both in charge. They were married couple,
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  Speaker 3: they kept control of their assets. That would have avoided probate,
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  Speaker 3: it would have provided the bloodline plan for their you know,
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  Speaker 3: for their children, and reduced to state taxes, could have
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  Speaker 3: provided divorce protection for their kids. I mean, it did
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  Speaker 3: what it was supposed to do, and so we're not
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  Speaker 3: knocking that. It's just that here, why is it so
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  Speaker 3: important during the divorce right to do things? So by
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  Speaker 3: revoking the trust, whether it's in the community, property or
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  Speaker 3: state or not, it appears that half of those assets
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  Speaker 3: now don't belong to the spouse. Now. I'm not sure
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  Speaker 3: if she was ever able to prepare a new will
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  Speaker 3: directing where those assets actually go, but it is something
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  Speaker 3: to consider when you're going through divorce.
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  Speaker 2: Because you can change that through your will right right.
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  Speaker 3: Since since she you know, she died while still married,
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  Speaker 3: this spouse may have had some spousal rights, so I'm
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  Speaker 3: glad she was able to you know, change at least
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  Speaker 3: revoke the trust. The other thing you might want to
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  Speaker 3: think about is why not change all the designated beneficiaries
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  Speaker 3: on your IRA, on your life insurance right you don't
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  Speaker 3: require espousal consent on those You can leave those to
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  Speaker 3: anybody you want, so change those in case you die.
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  Speaker 3: At least now the designated beneficiary will get what you
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  Speaker 3: want them to get and have these assets not go
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  Speaker 3: to your spouse who could remarry and spend them.
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  Speaker 2: Well, do you recommend doing that, like once a file
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  Speaker 2: update those beneficiaries.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. I don't go through this a lot,
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  Speaker 3: but I'm gonna definitely.
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  Speaker 2: And right now that's going through it, and they haven't
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  Speaker 2: updated anything yet.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I always want to check with the divorced
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  Speaker 3: lawyer because I don't believe that you're violating the automatic
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  Speaker 3: Transfer Restriction Order restraining order on it. You can't transfer
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  Speaker 3: anything because you didn't transfer it. You just changed where
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  Speaker 3: it will go when you die, but you didn't actually
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  Speaker 3: transfer it. You still own your EYRA, you still own
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  Speaker 3: that life insurance policy, you still own that house. But
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  Speaker 3: you know why not, you know, change those to state
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  Speaker 3: planning documents if you can so. I think, yes, I
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  Speaker 3: think when you're going through a divorce, the goal is
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  Speaker 3: to make sure you can keep you know what, you
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  Speaker 3: don't know what assets are actually going to be yours
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  Speaker 3: until the divorce is final. I get that, but at
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  Speaker 3: least whatever assets are yours should have a direction you
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  Speaker 3: want to go where you want them to go. Right,
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  Speaker 3: So even if you just did a new will saying
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  Speaker 3: whatever I end up owning on the date of my
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  Speaker 3: death goes goes where I want it to go. So
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  Speaker 3: interesting case. I thought that, you know, be careful when
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  Speaker 3: you're going through divorces as this. You need to be
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: careful when you're entering a nursing home. Folks, when you're
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: entering a nursing home, they're going to tell you your
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: everything's accountable and you have to just write a big check,
• 10:03
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  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
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  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the art Strong Advisory Group. We've got
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  Speaker 1: You're listening to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lunsky, an
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: in Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
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  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with the Masters in Taxation.
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  Speaker 2: Where we headed now, Todd.
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  Speaker 3: We're going to Texas. Haven't been there in a long time.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Interesting case. How often have we said the words never
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  Speaker 3: give property away?
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  Speaker 2: Never ever? Always we say so?
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  Speaker 3: Because of that, I had to bring this case up.
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  Speaker 3: So here it is. Elizabeth buys property in nineteen ninety
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  Speaker 3: seven for one hundred and seventeen thousand dollars. Elizabeth and
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  Speaker 3: her husband Sean then decide to give the property. Yes,
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  Speaker 3: give the property to Shawn's parents by deed without consideration.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Ruth and Robert are the parents. They do this in
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: two thousand. Elizabeth and Sean and the kids continue to
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: live in the main house and Shawn's parents live in
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: the in law apartment. Okay, well, maybe it's a family
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  Speaker 3: thing and they're trying to help each other. Elizabeth then,
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  Speaker 3: over time spends about one hundred and forty three thousand
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  Speaker 3: dollars on the property and fix ups and improvements. Okay.
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  Speaker 3: Robert that's an in law. Father in law dies in
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  Speaker 3: two thousand and five. He owns the property, so he's
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: allowed to leave it to his wife, Ruth, which he does. Yep,
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  Speaker 3: the mother in law, and Ruth assures Elizabeth that her
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: and Sean and the kids can continue to live in
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: the property and in fact that they would inherit the
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: property when Ruth dies. Okay, everything's good until Elizabeth and
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: Sewan divorce in twenty seventeen May.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: That was coming. It's divorce day today.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Ruth then decides to revoke the will and leave everything
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: to Sean Shocker, which she's allowed to do.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: He's going to.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth then sues Sean and Ruth for unjustin Richmond by
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: excluding Elizabeth from inheriting the property, especially because of her
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: monetary investments into the property. Then she files a Liz Pendance.
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  Speaker 3: That just means that there's litigation pending on this particular
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: property which could cloud title. Okay, so it means that
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: there's litigation involved. Well, the court ultimately decides to quiet
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: title and say, look, the property belongs to Ruth and
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Sean and denied the motion to cancel the Liz Pendance.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: So Liz Pendance is still out there, but the property
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: belongs to Sean.
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  Speaker 2: And Ruth's mom.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, which I think is the right call it. That's
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: who owns it, right, Okay. So on remand the trial
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  Speaker 3: court did not cancel the Liz pendance because of the
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  Speaker 3: unjustin Richmond action. The unjudged and Richmond action, they said
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  Speaker 3: did not affect title, and so they did cancel on
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: remand excuse me, they did cancel the Liz pendance. Elizabeth
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  Speaker 3: then appealed and the appellate court reversed and said, no
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  Speaker 3: Liz Pendance litigation remains because the unjustin Richmond did cause
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  Speaker 3: a cloud on the title because she now has an
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: equitable interest in the property that could impact title, meaning
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  Speaker 3: her improvements that she made to that property gave her
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: a transactional nexus to the property, allowing an equitable lean
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: to exist. So in this case, all that mumbo jumbo aside,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: there's still an issue as to title on the property
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: even though it belongs to them because of the improvements
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  Speaker 3: she's made to the property.
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  Speaker 2: I need you to do some more digging in this case. Me.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: I need to know why he originally transferred to j parents.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: He's trying to hide it from something there was pending litigation. Something.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I need juicy details here. The people need to know.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, why did Elizabeth.
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  Speaker 2: That's karma come back? Maybe you know a.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Way anyways, Yeah, the bottom line is that this is
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: not so much about whether or not the litigation can continue,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: which it can on this property. The issue is why
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: do you give it away? And folks, this is some
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: things that I don't want you to do, and then
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: there's some things I want you to do, which is
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: get this guide because you could be faced with going
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: into a nursing home last minute and being told to
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: write a big check because you're not eligible for medicaid,
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: when in fact, even if you haven't planned, you might be.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: And even if you have planned, there's going to be
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: assets that are not protected in the trust that need
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: to be addressed or protected So this guide tells you
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: how to treat a home when you're married, when you're single,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: how to treat rental property, how to treat vacation property,
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: what's countable, what's non countable, how much you can keep,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: how annuities work. To save assets? Last minute, folks, There's
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: so many things you can do last minute to protect assets.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Don't just write the check. Get the guide. If you're
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: faced with nursing home admission eight six six eight four
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: eight five six nine to nine or legal exchange show
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: dot com com again eight six six eight four eight
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: five six ninety nine or Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: You can download it there and you can always go
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: to Cushing, Dole and PC our Instagram page for more information.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, Susan, So, if Sean's mother, Ruth goes into a
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: nursing home, now he has given her his home, now
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: she owns his home. She goes into a nursing home,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: now that's at risk for her nursing home expenses. The
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: home what a nightmare? The home on the way down.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Did you did you read.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: I've been sitting in this studio with you for all
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: the words one years, and my mind is going right
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: out of my mouth right for a nightmare.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: This is exactly what we want to take this now.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give it to you in the non
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: emotional Susan speak for.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Him my soapbox.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: He's all upset about this, and so I agree Susan
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: one hundred percent. My start off by saying, what are
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: the tips and lessons we can learn? Why give property away? Right?
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: You lose all control over that property. Never so Elizabeth
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: and Sean now don't have any control. They can't live there.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: They can't. They didn't even retain a life estate. So
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: in this case that you know, the court got it right.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: The parents are the owners of the property and they
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: can change their estate plan anyway they want. Elizabeth could
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: have been forced out of that house because she hadn't
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: own it. She didn't even retain the right to live there.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Give it away and at least retain the right to
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: live there and the property. She gave the whole thing away,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: so you know, maybe she might get some of the
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: money back that she paid into the property for the improvements,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: but she ain't getting the property back. So this is
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: just beyond That's the initial reaction I had, And the.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Same thing happens if Mom and Dad give their house
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: to their kids.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: You have no control, exactly the reverse, Susan. And now
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I'm going to get into what you were saying. Right,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: think about this, Even if there was no divorce here,
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: everybody lived happily ever after. Why would we put assets
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: up a generation. If it goes up a generation, it
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: would be exposed to their nursing homes. So if they
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: got sick and went in a nursing home, then the
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: kids would have to buy out the property, buy it
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: back to save it. Right, So now you've exposed it
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: to their creditors, as you said, Susan. Never mind that
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: if it goes up a generation and they don't get
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: sick and go to the nursing home, then it's going
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: to be included in their estate and it's going to
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: be subject to estate taxes on the way back down
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: to Sean and Elizabeth, assuming no divorce and they're leaving
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: it to Sean and Elizabeth, well, that could create adverse
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: to state tax consequences at that generation. This property was
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: already down a generation. Why would we want to put
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: it up a generation into muddy?
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: The water's even more todd This screams do it yourself
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: legal work. So someone who does this typically is not
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: going to be having a consultation with an attorney, so
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: they probably didn't have any estate planning in place normally,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: so that if she died owning the house and Sean
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: has siblings, guess what, that's right, You're now owning your
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: house with your siblings when it's your house, should be
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: your house.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: This is just so fraud with problems, and so why
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: would you do all this? I don't know, folks, even
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: if you wanted your even if you wanted your your
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: parents to have an interest in the house and you
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: wanted to have them in case you died, you don't
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: need to give it to them. You could put it
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: in a trust for you and your family. But say
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: in the event you die and your parents are still alive,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: then you could have language in the trust that says
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: hold that property in trust for the benefit of my parents.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Right now, they don't own it, but they can live there,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: and then it comes back when there's no nursing home risk,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: there's no inclusion in their estate for estate tax purposes,
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: there's none of that problems, Folks, call and get this guide.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: If you're going into the nursing home. Last minute. Don't
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: give your property away, but get the guide eight six
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com. You can download it there. Last
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Minute Medicaid Eligibility. Learn how to protect those assets when
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: you're faced with nursing home care. Some are accountable, some
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: are non countable. The guide explains as to which they
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: are eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot Com.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and Todd will
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: One day you're living in your own home, the next
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you can at return home after rehab. Now you're faced
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: with a nursing home bill of more than fourteen thousand
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: dollars a month and wondering how you're gonna pay for it.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: These situations can occur without warning, but Cushing and Dolan
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: can help before you make any major decisions. Get the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: facts Cushing and Dolan's new guide Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility
• 24:20
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• 24:23
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• 24:26
  Speaker 1: receive isn't always your only option. Call right now eight
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: six six eight four eight five six ninet nine and
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: get you a free copy of Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at Legal exchange
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: show dot com. That's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: proceeding is paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you're offering legal investment services. Cushing and
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: are not affiliated.
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: The worst time to make a housing decision is when
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• 25:45
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or any Armstrong
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: guide is specific financial, legal or tax advice. Cansult your
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: own financial tax in to state planning advisors before making
• 25:53
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• 26:25
  Speaker 1: five k dot Boston. One day you're living in your
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: own home, the next you can't return home after rehab.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Now you're faced with a nursing home bill of more
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: than fourteen thousand dollars a month and wondering how you're
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: gonna pay for it. These situations can occur without warning,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: but Cushing and Dolan can help before you make any
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: major decisions, get the facts. Cushing and Dolan's new guide,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility, explains common misconceptions about Medicaid, what
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: assets may or may not be at risk, and why
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: the first answer you receive isn't always your only option.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Call right now eight six six eight four eight five
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• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. That's eight six six eight four
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• 27:10
  Speaker 1: guide online at legal exchange show dot com. That's legal
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for and
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan Into or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: offering legal investment services. Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: do not endorse each other and are not affiliated. You're
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: listening to the Legal Exchange, and it's time for Ask Todd,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the segment where Todd will answer your questions about anything
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: and everything that's included in the estate planning process. Once again,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: here's Todd, Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Welcome back. Todd have a few questions from listeners. First
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: question comes from Dave and Rent the Mass and Dave writes,
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I've been living with my mother since twenty twenty two
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: taking care of her. She will likely be going into
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: a nursing home before the end of this year, as
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I'm finding it difficult to continue to provide the level
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: of care that she needs. She doesn't have any money,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: and I've been using my own savings for the past
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: three years to pay for her care while I work.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I don't think an attorney would find her competent when
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: it comes to making legal or financial decisions, but I
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: am her power of attorney. What can I do to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: protect the house at this point? If we're forced to
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: sell it to pay for her nursing home care, I
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: won't have anywhere to live.
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: So he's going to be fortunate in this case. First
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: of all, he's obviously done the right thing. Okay, you've
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: done what you needed to do.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: He's a good boy.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: Keep your mom at home, and certainly that's important. And
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: that's exactly why the statute that I'm about to quote
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: you is in place. So while she has no money
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: but does have a home yep, her primary residence, you
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: have a couple of options here. Well, I probably would
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: just do the one option, but in this case the
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: house would be considered. I'm assuming the house is worth
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: less than let's say, i'm million dollars and so, and
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: even if it's not, in this case, because of the statute,
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: the value of the home doesn't matter. The statute I'm
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: referring to is called the caretaker child exception. This caretaker
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: child exception is if you live in the house for
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: two years, which sounds like he has been because he's
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: living there and provided.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been there since twenty two.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: You live in the house for two years and and
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: here's the ad part, and you provided nursing home level
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: care for two years before she went into the nursing
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: home yep, check, So nursing home level care would just
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: be feeding, toileting, bathing, dressing, transferring, you know things like that.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: Two of those, right, only two. So if you've been
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: doing that for two years and living there, then this
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: house can be transferred to you right now, to Dave,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: to Dave, Dave, you will not have to sell the house.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: It can become your house, David. And there is no
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: five year waiting period or look back period or penalty
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: of any kind for doing that. Nice because you met
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: this caretaker child exception and then sounds like she has
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: no other money, she will be immediately eligible for Medicaid
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: and the nursing home will be paid for. So you're
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: not going to be out of pocket, and you're going
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: to have the house, okay, and there's going to be
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: no lean.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Would there be anything last minute that he could do
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: if he hadn't been living there, just single mom, no
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: money with a house to get her qualified.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: Yes, the house would still be considered non countable as
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: long as it's less than a million dollars. But the
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: difference is they would put a lean on it, okay,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: so you could still get on medicaid, but they'll be.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: A lean, but she'd still get in and in.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: This case no lean.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: One last comment though, David, I wouldn't just transfer the
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: house to you. I would transfer the house to you,
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: but Mom should retain a life estate, which is the
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: right to live there in the event she ever gets
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: better and comes home Number one. But more importantly than that,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: by having that life estate, when she dies, it will
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: be included in her gross estate, not her probate estate,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: so it won't be subject to a state recovery for medicaid.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: But it will give you a full step up in
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: basis on the property on the date of death. David. Therefore,
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: if you ever sell the property, you will either have
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: zero or much reduced capital gain and therefore less capital
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: gains tax to pay. So don't just transfer it. Reserve
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: that life estate, get that step up in basis. Taxes
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: always sneak their little head into every decision we make,
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: and folks, sometimes there's decisions we make that we don't like,
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: and that is where we have to go to a
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: nursing home. And if we find ourselves heading into one,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: please get this guide. Last minute eligibility. This was one
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: right here. How did we know the house was non
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: cap coountable. Is the house non countable when you're married?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: And how is it treated differently if you're single. What
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: about a rental property? Can you save that last minute?
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: Is it accountable leanable? What about money? If I've got
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: more money than the amount I'm allowed to keep? Can
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: I buy an annuity? Can I use a pooled trust? Folks,
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: there are things that can be done last minute to
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: save assets from the nursing home. Don't just write the check,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: call and get this guide. It's very helpful eight six
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: six eight four eight five six nine nine or Legal
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Exchange Show dot com. And by the way, it's for
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: people that have done planning and people that have not,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: because even if you've done planning, there's gonna be assets
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: outside the trust that need protected. Get the guide eight
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: Legal Exchange Show dot com and or you could go
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: to Cushion dolean PC our Instagram page for more.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, our last question comes from John and Norwood Mass
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: and John writes, seven years ago, my wife and I
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: created irrevocable trust with your firm. At the time, I
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: owned an I liquid investment that we did not transfer
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: into either of our trusts. I've just found out that
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: the investment will be returned to me this year. Is
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: there any way to backtrack the funding of this investment
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: into my trust? It's a substantial amount, around five hundred thousand,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and I'm wondering how I can protect it now.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: So, I mean, the quick answer is no, Uh.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: John, where's the magic one?
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to see if I can find something here.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Change that attitude, would you?
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: The problem with the backtracking? Right when you apply for medicaid,
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: there's good if they put this asset, this five hundred
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars asset, into the trust, there's going to be
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: some kind of a titling changed.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: In other words, it's going to show up, perhaps now
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: in his name, and then later it's going to show
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: up in the name of a trust.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Well, the day in which you produce a statement showing
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: it was deposited into the trust is in fact the
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: day it went in.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: The start of the five year look back.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: There's no way to say that that started sooner than that.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: There just isn't. It is what it is, and so no,
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: I think, but that doesn't mean that that's a bad result.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Because at this point I didn't see anything in this
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: fact pattern or question that leads me to believe that
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: you're in bad health or super old or anything. So
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I would say, depending on your situation, why not just
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: put it in. People always ask me, can't I add
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: to these trusts they're set up? And I say, yeah,
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: you can add to the trust any time you want.
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: In fact, I'm at a client the other day who said,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: I got like a million five in real estate. I'm
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: okay putting that in, but I'm not comfortable yet putting
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: my money in. I said, that's fine, million five, that's
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: worth protecting. Let's get it, get your state plan in order.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: Can I add some money? You know, maybe next year
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: when I feel more comfortable with the trust, Absolutely you can.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: What's the downside? Same thing here? What's the downside? It's
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: not really a downside. The downside is that there'll be
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: a new five year waiting period, but only for the new.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Addition, just that money.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Right, So in my case that I was telling you about,
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: let's say they put it in and they waited five
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: years and then they said we're gonna put five hundred
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: thousand in now, yep, Okay. The other hasse that you
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: put in five years ago, those are safe YEP. Adding
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: to it doesn't impact.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Those, doesn't restart that look back people.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Right, it just creates a new one for this.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: So what would happen Todd if in this case, John,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: if he's putting that, you know the five hundred thousand
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: in Now, what happens if you know, three or four
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: years down the road one of them does go into
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: a nursing home.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: I mean again, it's all facts and circumstances. I would
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: look and say, do you have a lot of money
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: outside the trust? Is there money sitting in your IRA?
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Maybe you know, maybe I only need to private pay
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: two more years to protect five hundred thousand dollars more.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Maybe I spend two hundred to protect five hundred might
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: be an okay idea. So there'll be options. Let's put
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: it that way as to whether we undo what you
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: did and go forward as last minute planning entirely, or
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: whether we say, oh no, I got enough money to
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: private pay, or maybe the person's in bad health. I
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: don't know, so, folks, the whole point of this fact
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: pattern that we just went through is there are options.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Call and get this guide and learn what your options
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: are to protect your assets. Last minute, it explains to
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: you what's countable, what's non countable, how to treat extra
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: money over the exemption amount, how annuities work, how pool
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: trusts work, how vacation property is treated differently than a
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: rental or a home. Call and get it last minute.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Medicaid eligibility eight six six eight four or eight five
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: six nine to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: again eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: read your question in the air, and hopefully his answer
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing in Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: One day you're living in your own home, the next
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: you can't return home after rehab. Now you're faced with
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: a nursing home bill of more than fourteen thousand dollars
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: a month and wondering how you're gonna pay for it.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: These situations can occur without warning, but Cushing and Dolan
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: can help before you make any major decisions. Get the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: facts Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: It explains common misconceptions about Medicaid, what assets may or
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: may not be at risk, and why the first answer
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: you receive isn't always your only option. Call right now
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six ninet nine
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: and get you a free copy of Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: That's eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at Legal Exchange
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Show dot com. That's Legal exchange Show dot com. The
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: preceding is paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: and are not affiliated.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: Retirement isn't just one stage of life. It changes over
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: time and your home should change with it. This is
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: Mike Armstrong from the Armstrong Advisory Group. You may have
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: heard of the go go years, when you're traveling and
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: enjoying the freedom you've worked so hard to earn. Then
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: come the slowgo years, when convenience starts to matter more,
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: and eventually the no when safety and support takes center stage.
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: Our new guide, Navigating Retirement Housing Choices shows you how
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: different housing options can fit each stage of retirement, from
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: staying in your home to downsizing to exploring elder life communities.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: You'll learn what questions to ask before you're forced to
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: make a decision. Get your free copy today by calling
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one. That's
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one, or
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: request the guide at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or any Armstrong
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult your
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making any
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment advisory services.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: A nursing home stake can cost more than fourteen thousand
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: dollars a month before you assume you have to spend
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: everything to qualify for Medigaid. Get the facts. Call eight
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: sixty six eight four eight five six nine nine for
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: your free copy of Cushing and Dolan's new Guide Last
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Minute Medicaid Eligibility. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: five six ninety nine, or requested online Legal Exchange Show
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: dot com. The proceeding was paid for and the views
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: not endorse each other and are not affiliated. For veterans,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: every day is a commitment to service. This Veterans Day weekend,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: be part of something meaningful at the DAV five K
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: Boston join the thousands of runners and walkers at Fort
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Independence on Castle Island for a day of community remembrance
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and gratitude. Proceeds help fund the programs and services provided
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: by the Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts. To register
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: or make a donation, please visit DAV five K dot Boston.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: That's DAV five K dot Boston. Your tune to the
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If you are a loved
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: one needs a nursing homes day, call Todd right now
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: at eight six six eight for eight five six nine
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: nine and let him make sure your assets are protected.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: That's eight sixty six eight for eight five six nine nine,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: or visit him online at Legal Exchange show dot com.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a Masters in taxation. So, Todd,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: your guide this month is all about last minute Medicaid eligibility.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: And you go through an example of a married couple
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: and you kind of have their list of assets and
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: the list of assets is extensive, and they have two
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and a half million dollars in assets in this scenario. Right,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: So I want to go through the different kind of
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: assets they have and the different steps you take to
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: position them to make them eligible for Medicaid. Right, So
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: let's start with real estate. What do you do with
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: their real estate?
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Are we talking, and I think we probably need to
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: primary residence. There's different kinds of real estate, so let's
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: talk about the primary residents, the primary residence. And by
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: the way, this is a married couple, so let's be clear. Yeah,
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: so a married couple, they have a home. Is the
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: home by itself accountable asset. Because remember, just just so
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: you understand, if you're married, you're not allowed to have
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: more than about just call it about one hundred and
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: fifty thousand. It's a little more than that. Now, about
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars of money, yep. And
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: the six spouse is allowed to have two thousand dollars.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: So these are limits.
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: You're saying, well, cheese Toad, you got a house worth
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: you know, a million dollars. I don't even know what's
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: the house worth in this case.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: It's the house is worth one point two million.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: One point two million dollar home. So, cheese Todd, that's
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: way over one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Yeah, but
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: it's a different kind of asset. And that's my point
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: in understanding and getting this guide for you. This is
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: the home, the home, special the home. There's a regulation
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: that says in Massachusetts. If it's located in Massachusetts and
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: the spouse is living there as their primary residence, the
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: healthy spouse is living there, the sixpouse has moved into
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: the nursing home. So if located in Massachusetts and the
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: spouse is living there as their primary residence, then this
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: house is non countable. There's very few non countable assets.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: This is one of them, outright, hard stop. Non countable.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Doesn't matter how much it's worth, yep. And not only
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: is it non countable, it's non leanable.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: So different than the single mom right in our last case.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: Different non leanable. And the next thing you're going to
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: think about is, okay, so this isn't going to prevent
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: the six spouse from becoming eligible for Medicaid? Correct, Well,
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: what else would I do with it? Well, it's probably
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: owned jointly. Yes, most people own their homes as a
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: married couple jointly. I don't want to leave it that way.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: I want the six spouse to transfer his half interest
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: to her, the healthy spouse in this example. Can we
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: do that? I heard transfers our penalties, disqualifying transfers, not
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: between spouses. So there's another regulation that says transfers between
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: spouses is permissible. So this allows the house to be
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: transferred without creating a five year waiting period and the
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: last and you want to do that just in case
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: the healthy spouse dies first and then the house would
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: go immediately to the joint owner, who's the six spouse.
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: We don't want that, so this is why we transfer it.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: And just in case you have lost capacity six spouse,
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: hopefully you have a power of attorney in place. Generally
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: the power of attorney can sign for the six spouse
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: transferring to real estate. And like magic, we've saved a house,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: prevented a lean and put it all in her name.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: What if they have a mortgage on it.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Well, if they have a mortgage on it, that would
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: be a way to take care of some of the
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: money that we have kicking around. If we have more
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: than one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, that's over the
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: money limit. How can we spend the money limit down?
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: We can take that money and pay a mortgage. That's
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: not a gift, that's a that is a payment. So
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: we can spend money down that way. Okay, And so folks,
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: these are just two examples so far of things we
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: can do last minute to save in this case a house.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: And we talked a little bit about some money, Susan,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: and these are just ways to do it. This guide
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: last minute Medicaid eligibility gives you a as you said,
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: a two million plus dollar case, not just anybody going
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: into a nursing home. Get the guide and learn how
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: you can protect you put yourself and your fact pattern
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: into this example and see what assets are protected, what aren't,
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: how you can protect what's not protected? Last minute call
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: and get the guide eight six six eight four eight
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: five six nine nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: again eight six six eight four eight five six nine
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com. You can download
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: it there and always go to Cushing Dole and PC
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: our Instagram page for more information.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: So we're trying to shrink that bucket of money that's
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: over the asset limit for the healthy spouse. Is there
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: anything else you can use your liquid assets for?
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: So yes, I mean one of the things if we're
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: if we're done with the with the house anyway, you
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: know you're kind of thinking about and there are other
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: kinds of real estate that we can talk about too,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: But let's talk about some money. Remember, give or take
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in two thousand. This
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: is what the healthy spouse and the six spouse are
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: allowed to keep. Well, if we've got more than that,
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: what do we do. Well, one thing you can do
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: is spend down. Now, I'm gonna comment on the spend
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: down a little bit because when there's a healthy spouse,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to spend too much because the healthy
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: spouse can keep all the money and I'll show you how.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: So with healthy spouse situation, these spend down ideas are
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: are less important, okay, because again I want the money
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: as much as possible to be available for the healthy
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: spouse to live or life. However, if you're single, spend
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: down makes sense, like on what and that's this next example. Well,
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: maybe at this point I would prepay my funeral. Sure, right, Again,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: if I'm married, I'm probably not going to do this.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: But if I'm single, yeah, I don't want my kids
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: to have to pay for the funeral. And by the way,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: this prepaying, you go into a funeral home or your
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: children do, and they get what is called a funeral contract.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: It's an irrevocable contract and it basically lays out all
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: the things you want, the casket, the flowers, after the reception,
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: everything you want. It gets a price at the bottom right,
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: a check to the funeral home. Again, not a transfer,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: not a disqualifying transfer, but a payment for services to
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: be rendered. Yep, So therefore not a disqualifying transfer and
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: a valid way of spending down the money. Otherwise, there's
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: not a lot of ways other than paying down debt
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: and paying this funeral contract. There's not a ton of
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: ways to spend money otherwise. It looks like a gift.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: And what do you do with everything that's left, anything
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: that's liquid left If we're not able to spend down
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: even more so, so.
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: If you get let's say you have like half a
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: million dollars left, you know what are you going to do?
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: And again, even with a married couple, and it can
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: work for a single person too, but with a married
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: couple you probably would direct your attention to an annuity.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Now you've heard of pooled trust, but pooled trust don't
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: really get utilized when you have a married couple situation. Again,
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: we want the money for the for the healthy spouse.
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: So in this case, you would transfer all the excess
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: money to the healthy spouse. Again, transfers between spouses are permissible,
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: So we transfer the assets to the healthy spouse, and
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: then the healthy spouse needs to convert those assets from
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: an asset to an income stream. And therein lies this
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: purchase of a medicaid annuity. These are very special special
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: annuities to They got to be term certain, irrevocable, non assignable,
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: you know, and you've got to create them when you're
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: going in the nursing home. And it just basically says
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: that the person who bought the annuity, the healthy spouse,
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: is going to get all the money back because it's
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: through an insurance company, and they're going to get it
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: back incrementally over say five years, okay, not to exceed
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: their life expectancy is the term. Folks. Lots more to
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: learn about it. Annuities. I just tip of the iceberg,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: but call and get the guide how to protect these
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: assets last minute when you're entering a nursing home eight
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: six six eight four eight five six nine nine or
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: legal Exchange show dot com and again good for people
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: who have planned and good for people who have not
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: eight six six eight four eight five six ninety nine
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: or legal Exchange show dot com.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan always a player.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. Thank you for joining us today on the
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: One day you're living in your own home, the next
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: you can't return home after rehab. Now you're faced with
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: a nursing home bill of more than fourteen thousand dollars
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: a month and wondering how you're gonna pay for it.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: These situations can occur without warning, but Cushing and Dolan
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: can help before you make any major decisions. Get the facts.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan's new guide, Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility, explains
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: common misconceptions about Medicaid, what assets may or may not
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: be at risk, and why the first answer you receive
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: isn't always your only option. Call right now eight six
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninety nine and get
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: you a free copy of Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility. That's
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: or you can request the guide online at Legal Exchange
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: show dot com that's Legal exchange show dot com. The
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: proceeding is paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan into Armstrong
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services. Cushing
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each other
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: and are not a affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: The worst time to make a housing decision is when
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: you don't have a choice. This is chucks out of
• 52:05
  Speaker 6: from the Armstrong Advisory Group. Too often people don't think
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: about their next home until a health issue or the
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: upkeep of a house makes the decision for them. If
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: you start planning now, you can take your time, explore
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: your options, and make decisions that fit your retirement goals
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: instead of reacting to a crisis. In our new guide
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: called Navigating Retirement Housing Choices, you'll learn about downsizing fifty
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: five plus communities, continuing care, retirement communities, assisted living, and
• 52:29
  Speaker 6: the important questions to ask before making one of retirement's
• 52:33
  Speaker 6: biggest decisions. Don't wait until circumstances dictate what you need
• 52:36
  Speaker 6: to do. Get your free guide today by calling eight
• 52:39
  Speaker 6: hundred three nine three for zero zero one. That's eight
• 52:42
  Speaker 6: hundred three nine three four zero zero one, or you
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: can request it online at Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or any Armstrong
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: guide is specific financial, legal or tax advice. Cansult your
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: own financial tax into state planning advisors before making any
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you do offer investment in
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: visory services. A nursing home stake can cost more than
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: fourteen thousand dollars a month. Before you assume you have
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: to spend everything to qualify for Medicaid, Get the facts.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Call eight six six eight four eight five six ninet
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: nine for your free copy of Cushing and Dolan's new
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Guide Last Minute Medicaid Eligibility that's eight six six eight
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: four eight five six ninet nine, or requested online at
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: Legal exchange show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: in The views expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: offering legal or investment services. Cushing and Dolan in Armstrong
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: Advisory do not endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: For veterans, every day is a commitment to service this
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Veterans Day weekend. Be part of something meaningful at the
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: DAV five K Boston. Join the thousands of runners and
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: walkers at Fort Independence on Castle Island for a day
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: of community remembrance and gratitude. Proceeds help fund the programs
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: and services provided by the Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: To register or make a donation, please visit DAV five
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: k dot Boston. That's DAV five ktsin