Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Tot Fight Club' exposed, but why aren't daycare workers charged?

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'Tot Fight Club' exposed, but why aren't daycare workers charged? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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1:34
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. No one's being held accountable. And
1:42
Speaker 1: if I'm not a voice for my children, who will be?
1:45
Speaker 1: I don't know any parents they could watch their children
1:48
Speaker 1: go through this and not be upset. In the video,
1:51
Speaker 1: he's wiping his face over and over again. The daycare worker,
1:55
Speaker 1: you see her walk over to him and tell him,
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Speaker 1: you know you're fineing and like pat him on the
2:02
Speaker 1: back and then walk and start another fight with other kids.
2:06
Speaker 1: When we chose a new daycare for him and he
2:08
Speaker 1: started going, he asked me in the car if they
2:12
Speaker 1: were going to make him fight my stars. Just hearing
2:17
Speaker 1: that mother is making me tear up. If I were
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Speaker 1: to find out that my children were forced to fight
2:27
Speaker 1: each other on video just so the daycare workers or
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Speaker 1: the teachers who were bored and had nothing else to do,
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Speaker 1: what were they taking bits? I'm talking about a bona
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Speaker 1: fide taught fight, a fight club at daycare on video,
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Speaker 1: with board office workers taking bets, forcing the children back
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Speaker 1: in the ring, the crying taughts who didn't want to
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Speaker 1: fight each other. I can't even believe I'm saying these
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Speaker 1: words made they all rot in hell. Okay, that's for
3:04
Speaker 1: having to decide. I'm going to help decide what happens
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Speaker 1: to them here on Earth and court I Nancy Grace,
3:12
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
3:15
Speaker 1: I am so mad I could chew a nail in half.
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Speaker 1: Joining me right now. Syndicated talk show host Dave Mack,
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Speaker 1: New York psychologist, Karen Stark, founder of child crime watch
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Speaker 1: dot com, child judge and lawyer Ashley Wilcott, Vincent Hill,
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Speaker 1: author and founder of a podcast, Fall of a Titan,
3:36
Speaker 1: and Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina, specializes in family law. Dave Mack,
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Speaker 1: you know what, hold me back? All right, hold me back.
3:47
Speaker 1: What happened? It was a six year old child, his
3:50
Speaker 1: little brother was being forced by these two daycare workers
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Speaker 1: to put on the incredible hulk hands and do battle
3:58
Speaker 1: in a fight club that was all about daycare kids.
4:01
Speaker 1: So you've got the taught fight club. And the only
4:04
Speaker 1: reason we know about it is because an older brother
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Speaker 1: could not believe his younger brother was being forced to
4:11
Speaker 1: hit his best friend at this daycare because the workers
4:15
Speaker 1: were bored. Guys, we're talking about a fight club taking
4:19
Speaker 1: place at the Adventure Learning Center in St. Louis. Nicole
4:24
Speaker 1: Marcile's four year old taught was one of the toddlers
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Speaker 1: forced to fight. Her ten year old filmed some of
4:32
Speaker 1: the finding and sent his mommy the video. I can't
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Speaker 1: I can't take in what's really happening here. The video
4:41
Speaker 1: is so upsetting. A horrified Missouri mom now on the
4:47
Speaker 1: rampage and do you blame her? Ashley Wilcop, juvenile judge
4:51
Speaker 1: and lawyer, founder of Child crime watch dot com. What
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Speaker 1: is your understanding of what happened? These daycare workers actually
4:58
Speaker 1: did that? Put them in the ring, made them right?
5:00
Speaker 1: And you see kids probably not wanting to fight, not
5:02
Speaker 1: understanding what's going on, fighting their best friends, and they
5:05
Speaker 1: were made to do it. What's going on as a crime?
5:08
Speaker 1: Child endangerment at a minimum? You know, I am thinking
5:13
Speaker 1: about raising the children. And a lot of you guys
5:16
Speaker 1: joining me right now have been with me from the
5:19
Speaker 1: get go. When I announced on Live TV that I
5:24
Speaker 1: was pregnant and think Blue and Pete. I think I'm
5:30
Speaker 1: gonna cry just saying it. When I announced I was
5:33
Speaker 1: having a boy and a girl. Karen Stark, I think
5:35
Speaker 1: you were actually with me that night on the set
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Speaker 1: in Manhattan, and um, I'm just getting child bumps remembering it.
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Speaker 1: And to think, you know, children come into the world innocent.
5:49
Speaker 1: I'm convinced a lot of people think children come into
5:51
Speaker 1: the world either mean or bad or naughty. I disagree.
5:58
Speaker 1: They are not only a you know, they're not only
6:03
Speaker 1: created by nature, but they are nurtured to grow up
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Speaker 1: a certain way. It's hard for me to take in
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Speaker 1: that little taughts as young as four are trained to
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Speaker 1: go into a fight ring and fight each other, actually
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Speaker 1: exchange blows even though they're crying and begging to stop. Karen,
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Speaker 1: It's abusive, Nancy, There's no doubt about it. This is abuse.
6:27
Speaker 1: And I've heard stories like this where parents have actually
6:31
Speaker 1: put boxing gloves on their kids and made them fight
6:35
Speaker 1: the parent or each other. And you know that that
6:39
Speaker 1: is not what you find in a typical family and
6:42
Speaker 1: has a traumatic, lasting effect on the kids. I am
6:45
Speaker 1: so glad that this mother is coming forth and doing
6:49
Speaker 1: something about it, and have no idea how a daycare
6:54
Speaker 1: could allow something like that to happen. You know, if
6:56
Speaker 1: the ten year old brother uh not filmed the fight
7:02
Speaker 1: club which was taking place there at Adventure Learning center
7:05
Speaker 1: on his iPad. We would never know about it because
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Speaker 1: children this young. Oh my stars, I'm looking at it
7:13
Speaker 1: right now. Good Lord in heaven. You can see this
7:19
Speaker 1: at crime online dot com. It's like it's like a
7:26
Speaker 1: cot fight where you have people all standing around. Oh
7:30
Speaker 1: my stars, I'm seeing the teacher standing by in her
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Speaker 1: ug boots, cheering, cheering and oh my oh wait wait
7:38
Speaker 1: what Dave, Matt everybody, I hope you're looking at this
7:40
Speaker 1: right now. The video, the teacher is telling and gesticulating
7:45
Speaker 1: for the little boy to start kicking the kid that's down.
7:50
Speaker 1: She's jumping up like in Glee. The teacher and cheering
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Speaker 1: and doing kicking motions like a coach Wood from the sideline.
8:00
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer helped me out. This
8:04
Speaker 1: lady needs to go to jail. Nancy, this is the
8:07
Speaker 1: worst scenario as a mom and as a grandmother that
8:12
Speaker 1: this person now works at the child care center where
8:17
Speaker 1: my child is because she has a clean record. Because
8:20
Speaker 1: nobody with the state of Missouri has held her accountable.
8:24
Speaker 1: Neither one of those teachers have faced prosecution. That is
8:29
Speaker 1: unacceptable because now they will be in a scenario where
8:35
Speaker 1: they're gonna do the same type of neglectful, abusive behavior again,
8:40
Speaker 1: and my child could be heard. Get him out. One
8:43
Speaker 1: of these clips shows a teacher jumping up and down
8:47
Speaker 1: in glee. I can only describe it as glee as
8:52
Speaker 1: another teacher puts a hulk smash hand there, their gloves
8:56
Speaker 1: like the hulk cast looks like his hands on the
8:59
Speaker 1: toddler's in and then they start throwing punches into the face,
9:05
Speaker 1: even one kid pounding the tot's head into the floor
9:08
Speaker 1: over and over and over, as the other children gather around,
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Speaker 1: just watching and the teacher is cheering. Only one person
9:19
Speaker 1: tries to break up the fight, and it's not a teacher.
9:22
Speaker 1: It's another preschooler who runs in and tries to pull
9:27
Speaker 1: the one kid off the other one. These are taughts, taughts,
9:31
Speaker 1: but they're fighting, and the teacher's right there egging them on,
9:35
Speaker 1: telling him to kick the guy who's down. The little
9:38
Speaker 1: boy can't break up the fight. The only person trying
9:43
Speaker 1: to break up the fight is another taught. It doesn't
9:47
Speaker 1: even look real to me. Vincent Hill, where do you
9:52
Speaker 1: start in trying to investigate everybody? Vincent Hill with me,
9:55
Speaker 1: Cop turned p I, author of playbook to a murder
9:59
Speaker 1: on the Amazon and creator of a new podcast, Fall
10:03
Speaker 1: of a Titan, Vincent. Hell, how do you even begin
10:06
Speaker 1: investigating a case like this because none of your witnesses
10:09
Speaker 1: can really verbalize what happened. Well, I think the proof
10:12
Speaker 1: is in the video, Nancy, and actually alluded to it earlier.
10:16
Speaker 1: Child engagement, But I would actually charge them also with
10:19
Speaker 1: child exploitation because one of the elements of that is
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Speaker 1: an activity that the child is forced to take part
10:26
Speaker 1: in that could cause emotional, physical, or social problems. And
10:30
Speaker 1: I think all three of those were called by what
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Speaker 1: we saw. And what's sickening about this, Nancy, is those
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Speaker 1: teachers recorded this on their cell phones for whatever use.
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Speaker 1: So I would charge them to the highest extent of
10:44
Speaker 1: talent exploitation. No, I'm thinking about the teacher standing around,
10:51
Speaker 1: standing around, watching all of this happen. Two Karen Stark,
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Speaker 1: New York psychologists joining us from Manhattan today. What is
10:59
Speaker 1: that thinking of a teacher standing by and letting this happen.
11:04
Speaker 1: They're getting vicarious drills, Nancy. It's projections of their own
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Speaker 1: desire to be able to partake in an experience like that,
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Speaker 1: and they're not seeing kids as kids. They're seeing them
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Speaker 1: as something that they can manipulate and handle, and no
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Speaker 1: one is thinking, as Vincent just said, about the future
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Speaker 1: of these kids, how they will go and recover from
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Speaker 1: an experience like this. They're going to be scarred for
11:30
Speaker 1: life because they were part of this kind of a situation.
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Speaker 1: It really is statistic. Vincent. We were talking about the
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Speaker 1: video earlier. It was one of the brothers that actually
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Speaker 1: videoed it. He was so distraught seeing his teacher standing
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Speaker 1: on the sidelines yelling and screaming. And you gotta look
11:51
Speaker 1: at this, guys, go to crime online dot com and
11:53
Speaker 1: see this video. Uh, it's upsetting, that's true, But you've
11:58
Speaker 1: got to see this teacher actually gesticulating to the little
12:02
Speaker 1: boys fighting to um kick him, kick him, kick him.
12:07
Speaker 1: I want you to hear the mom, Lisamer Sale. She's
12:11
Speaker 1: talking to kt v I about her son in the video.
12:16
Speaker 1: No one's being held accountable. And if I'm not a
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Speaker 1: voice for my children, who will be. I don't know
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Speaker 1: any parents they could watch their children go through this
12:26
Speaker 1: and not be upset. In the video, he's wiping his
12:29
Speaker 1: face over and over again. The daycare worker, you see
12:32
Speaker 1: her walk over to him and tell him you know
12:35
Speaker 1: you're fine, and like pat him on the back and
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Speaker 1: then walk and start another fight with other kids. When
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Speaker 1: we chose a new daycare for him and he started going,
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Speaker 1: he asked me in the car, if they were going
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Speaker 1: to make him fight, we will see someone. Oh my god,
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Speaker 1: oh oh. He doesn't understand why his friends for fighting him,
13:09
Speaker 1: Why he got beat up by his best friends. And
13:13
Speaker 1: it was on his fourth birthday. The daycare workers were
13:16
Speaker 1: making them fight, not helping them. You first heard raw
13:21
Speaker 1: audio a video a little boy took of the so
13:25
Speaker 1: called Talk Fight Club as it was happening. He was
13:29
Speaker 1: so distraught to see his little brother getting beat up.
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Speaker 1: He recorded it with his iPad he had at school.
13:35
Speaker 1: I mean, the teacher standing around egging it on, laughing, cheering,
13:41
Speaker 1: gesticulating for the little boy to kick the guy that
13:44
Speaker 1: was down on the floor. And this kid videos and
13:48
Speaker 1: you just heard that, followed by the mom speaking to
13:53
Speaker 1: kt V, I TV and St. Louis describing what happened
13:59
Speaker 1: and just I'm just so distraught. Right now, back to
14:03
Speaker 1: Dave Max syndicated talk shows. Let's start at the beginning.
14:07
Speaker 1: Tell me about the daycare center. It's one of those
14:09
Speaker 1: traditional daycare centers, Nancy, but they had apparently according to
14:14
Speaker 1: one of these women who was accused, and I don't
14:16
Speaker 1: understand why they haven't been prosecuted, but you know, they
14:19
Speaker 1: have the laundry list of children in various age groups
14:22
Speaker 1: from ChIL babies all the way up until right before
14:25
Speaker 1: they start public school. And one of these daycare workers
14:29
Speaker 1: gave two different accounts of why she was doing it. Apparently, Nancy,
14:33
Speaker 1: they actually cleared out a downstairs room to take the
14:37
Speaker 1: children out of their normal play areas and took them
14:40
Speaker 1: down to this other room to actually stage the fighting.
14:44
Speaker 1: Because when she said that, they moved him down there
14:46
Speaker 1: because there was a heating problem or an air problem,
14:48
Speaker 1: and yet they actually had a separate room for this
14:52
Speaker 1: taught fight club. And then of course she gave the
14:55
Speaker 1: excuse that, well, they ran out of things to do,
14:58
Speaker 1: that's why they were fighting. But this was an everyday thing.
15:02
Speaker 1: This was really you know, the only reason we only
15:04
Speaker 1: heard about it from a ten year old taking a
15:06
Speaker 1: video is because you know the rules of fight clubs.
15:08
Speaker 1: You don't talk about fight clubs, and apparently if you're
15:10
Speaker 1: three or four, you're not allowed to think about it.
15:13
Speaker 1: You're just having to do what an adult tells you
15:15
Speaker 1: to do. It's despicable. Why are these people not in jail? Yeah,
15:18
Speaker 1: I I don't get that at all. Another thing is
15:22
Speaker 1: this mom who is speaking out Lisamercial. She said that, uh,
15:27
Speaker 1: her other son video diet of his younger brother, just four,
15:31
Speaker 1: who was just crying and couldn't stop because he had
15:34
Speaker 1: already been in three fights. Three fights. You know, I
15:40
Speaker 1: I don't understand Ashley Wilcott. You're the juvenile judge and lawyer,
15:43
Speaker 1: You're the founder of child crime watch dot com. What
15:46
Speaker 1: where are the criminal charges on this woman? I cannot
15:49
Speaker 1: understand it either, Nancy. There's absolutely no reason in the
15:53
Speaker 1: world I can think of think about this. Do you
15:55
Speaker 1: remember the professional football player who was engaged in dog
15:59
Speaker 1: fight who went to jail as a result. Oh yeah,
16:02
Speaker 1: Michael Vick. Michael Vick, right, And so this is it's
16:06
Speaker 1: just even worse. But it's the same in terms of
16:08
Speaker 1: innocent beings, innocent children being made to fight. Why in
16:14
Speaker 1: the world they are not facing conviction and facing criminal
16:18
Speaker 1: charges and spending time in jail is absolutely beyond me.
16:23
Speaker 1: There's no fathomable reason, especially when, as Vincent Hill said,
16:26
Speaker 1: you actually have videotape of them doing this crime. Well,
16:29
Speaker 1: here's the other thing. Catch this. I hope you're all
16:32
Speaker 1: sitting down. This place actually has video recorders, surveillance video,
16:37
Speaker 1: and the daycare surveillance video cameras recorded at least thirty
16:42
Speaker 1: minutes of the fight club, the fight club Top Fight,
16:47
Speaker 1: I mean thirty minutes, and they're still not bringing charges.
16:52
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, you gotta help me out here. Where are
16:55
Speaker 1: the criminal charges? I agree with Ashley Wilcott, I am livid,
16:59
Speaker 1: But you know the biggest problem is are these two
17:03
Speaker 1: women still in two thousand eighteen taking care of little children?
17:10
Speaker 1: And if I was the parent and they were taking
17:13
Speaker 1: care of my children and I didn't know this because
17:18
Speaker 1: they failed to prosecute these individuals, I would want answers.
17:24
Speaker 1: It is unfathomable that they have not been profitable. Well,
17:28
Speaker 1: this is clearly a case of child abuse. Ashley Willcott,
17:33
Speaker 1: the lead teacher, actually gave a statement reportedly stating that
17:37
Speaker 1: the teachers organized the top fight to try and quote
17:41
Speaker 1: entertain the children after the heater break. What happened to
17:44
Speaker 1: finger painting? What about that? Has anybody thought of that?
17:47
Speaker 1: Or the little game where you sit in a circle
17:50
Speaker 1: and you play telephone and you pass the word by
17:53
Speaker 1: whisper all the way around and see how it turns
17:56
Speaker 1: out in the end. Or duck duck, goose goose. I
17:59
Speaker 1: mean about that, right, So child abuse includes as a definition,
18:03
Speaker 1: without excuse me, proper supervision or control, which is the
18:07
Speaker 1: case here. It is not only improper lack of supervision.
18:11
Speaker 1: It's making the kids do this. It doesn't make any sense.
18:15
Speaker 1: There's so many things that daycare is set up to
18:17
Speaker 1: do for children and the good day cares. Why in
18:19
Speaker 1: the world would they have these children engage in this activity.
18:23
Speaker 1: It's beyond sickening to me. It makes me so absolutely
18:27
Speaker 1: livid angry because the other thing that does is create
18:30
Speaker 1: children who can become adults who believe that senseless violence
18:34
Speaker 1: is the answer. And that's bad. You know. I'm all
18:38
Speaker 1: about not having them grow up as adults that think
18:41
Speaker 1: violence is okay. What I want right now I want
18:46
Speaker 1: these women behind bars. I want them behind bars. Now
18:50
Speaker 1: listen to this. I know you were sitting down earlier.
18:53
Speaker 1: You maybe shouldn't lay down for this one. The St.
18:56
Speaker 1: Louis Circuit Attorney's office declined to prosecute the day here.
19:00
Speaker 1: It's still an operation today. Quote there was insufficient evidence
19:05
Speaker 1: to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that any laws were violated.
19:09
Speaker 1: That is an official statement from the St. Louis Circuit
19:12
Speaker 1: Attorney's office. I've never been so embarrassed by prosecutions in
19:18
Speaker 1: my life, except the embarrassment of the du Lacrosse fiasco.
19:24
Speaker 1: This is so wrong for them not to prosecute when
19:31
Speaker 1: adults in charge of children not only do nothing but
19:36
Speaker 1: actively organize taught fights, it's over whelming. Take a listen
19:45
Speaker 1: to ABC's Lindsay Davis. One teacher told investigators she let
19:49
Speaker 1: the kids fight as a stress release after the daycares
19:52
Speaker 1: heater broke. Those two teachers never faced criminal charges. The
19:56
Speaker 1: Department of Health and Senior Services tells us they did
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Speaker 1: No one's being held accountable, and if I'm not a
22:17
Speaker 1: voice for my children, who will be? I don't know
22:20
Speaker 1: any parents they could watch their children go through this
22:23
Speaker 1: and not be upset. Racile does not think enough was done.
22:28
Speaker 1: I want them to be held accountable, and I don't
22:31
Speaker 1: want this to happen to any other child. The police
22:34
Speaker 1: report says. The director immediately fired both teachers and called
22:38
Speaker 1: the child abuse hotline. The St. Louis Circuit Attorney's office
22:41
Speaker 1: declined to prosecute those State regulators substantiated the complaint. Adventure
22:46
Speaker 1: Learning Center continued operating normally, but with increased inspections. Eight
22:51
Speaker 1: visits since Document twenty six wide ranging violations, though none
22:55
Speaker 1: exactly like the fight club incident. What no prosecution. After
22:59
Speaker 1: the teachers arranged for tats little children to fight over
23:05
Speaker 1: and over and over again after clearing out a downstairs room,
23:09
Speaker 1: egging them on, the children crying as the teacher stands by,
23:14
Speaker 1: I can only describe as giddy, cheering them on, making
23:18
Speaker 1: them kick each other. I mean, it goes on and
23:21
Speaker 1: on until one older brother gets the iPad he brings
23:25
Speaker 1: to school with him, to daycare with him, in videos
23:28
Speaker 1: and texts it to his mom. Now's the only way
23:31
Speaker 1: this was ever discovered. But for some reason, authorities there
23:35
Speaker 1: in St. Louis are doing nothing. What do you mean
23:39
Speaker 1: insufficient evidence? It's on video, not just the kids video,
23:43
Speaker 1: but the daycare. Surveillance caught at least thirty minutes of
23:48
Speaker 1: Top Fight. Inspections and the daycare were increased. So what
23:53
Speaker 1: so what when an adult commits the crime, you don't
23:56
Speaker 1: just lose your job. You go to jail. You go
23:59
Speaker 1: to jail. A four year old has claimed one of
24:03
Speaker 1: the teachers uh cursed at him, grabbed him, pushed him
24:09
Speaker 1: to the ground. One daycare giver was seen grabbing a
24:15
Speaker 1: three year old child by the arm and dragging them
24:17
Speaker 1: across the floor. And during this incident the Top Fight,
24:22
Speaker 1: the daycare director had been standing in the classroom. Now,
24:27
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that was during the video or
24:28
Speaker 1: during the dragging episodes. I can tell you right now,
24:32
Speaker 1: not enough has been done following the fight club, and
24:36
Speaker 1: the little boy still doesn't understand that fighting. Being forced
24:40
Speaker 1: to fight at daycare is not normal. Um, I still
24:45
Speaker 1: don't understand why charges are not being filed. I want
24:49
Speaker 1: to go out to Karen start New York psychologists joining us.
24:53
Speaker 1: What about it, Karen, how what kind of impact are
24:56
Speaker 1: these children going to have? Well, not only will it
25:00
Speaker 1: has a lasting impact on them, Nancy, and they will
25:05
Speaker 1: feel like they did something wrong because kids don't understand
25:09
Speaker 1: that they are not responsible for a situation like this,
25:12
Speaker 1: and they internalize all of it. But when they get
25:16
Speaker 1: to be adults, I sound with my own patients that
25:19
Speaker 1: very often they believe that it's normal. They have a
25:24
Speaker 1: memory of fighting with the sibling, having a parent push
25:28
Speaker 1: them on and encourage them, and they don't understand how
25:31
Speaker 1: much it's really affected them until they start reliving it again.
25:35
Speaker 1: To Ascot, what do you think? I absolutely agree with
25:40
Speaker 1: that and the other And so the trauma they have endured,
25:42
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to get some type of treatment or
25:46
Speaker 1: people who are caring and understand how to treat it
25:50
Speaker 1: to deal with it, so they understand those things that
25:52
Speaker 1: Karen just described, Nancy. The other thing I want to
25:55
Speaker 1: say about this is let's talk about the prevention piece
25:58
Speaker 1: that's so important. How and parents prevent this from happening
26:02
Speaker 1: because you think you pick a daycare and they're gonna
26:04
Speaker 1: take care of your children and love your children, and
26:07
Speaker 1: you can write things with your children, and then you
26:09
Speaker 1: find out from a siblings video, oh my god, look
26:13
Speaker 1: what these these teachers did to my kids. And I
26:16
Speaker 1: think that's why it's important obviously to make sure you
26:19
Speaker 1: investigate any type of facility that you put your children in.
26:23
Speaker 1: And also it's the reason why now a lot of
26:25
Speaker 1: daycares offer the surveillance is what I would call it,
26:29
Speaker 1: so that you can actually go on your computer and
26:31
Speaker 1: see what your children are doing at all times of
26:33
Speaker 1: the day. If you want your voice to be heard,
26:36
Speaker 1: contact the St. Louis Circuit attorney. The St. Louis Circuit
26:42
Speaker 1: Attorney is Kim Gardner g A R D N E R.
26:47
Speaker 1: And her phone number is three one four six two
26:51
Speaker 1: two four nine for one. Repeat three one four six
26:55
Speaker 1: two two four nine for one, because I'd like to
26:59
Speaker 1: find out why isn't she doing anything about this? And
27:02
Speaker 1: I want to go back, Uh, Vincent Hill, I'm sure.
27:05
Speaker 1: I mean, you're the sports guy with us playbook to
27:09
Speaker 1: a murder book podcast Fall of a Titan. I covered
27:13
Speaker 1: Michael Vis Animal Cruelty trial live when it happened. Okay,
27:19
Speaker 1: he went to jail and forfeited an NFL career over
27:24
Speaker 1: having dog fights. These are children, Vincent, and nothing is
27:31
Speaker 1: happening with surveillance video. Vincent helped me, Nancy, I wish
27:35
Speaker 1: I could, but I'm the fuddled as well, not only
27:39
Speaker 1: as a police officer, but as a parent. I think
27:42
Speaker 1: my justice initially would be, Oh, you want to fight,
27:46
Speaker 1: I'll show you a fight. But you know, we have
27:48
Speaker 1: to go with the law. And I don't understand why
27:51
Speaker 1: the prosecutors did not prosecute on this, Nancy, to thank
27:55
Speaker 1: everyone on this panel to be funneled why that didn't happen,
27:58
Speaker 1: because everything you need for that prosecution is there in
28:01
Speaker 1: that video that brother took of the fight. I mean, guys,
28:06
Speaker 1: a lot of us have children on this panel. Can
28:09
Speaker 1: you imagine. I mean, my son John David. He's a lover,
28:13
Speaker 1: not a fighter at all. And um, I don't know
28:17
Speaker 1: if this is wrong or right, but he had a
28:19
Speaker 1: bully at school that tormented him for two years. One
28:24
Speaker 1: time even punched him in the stomach. Um, that was
28:29
Speaker 1: the day, Mommy, let all hell break loose. In the
28:33
Speaker 1: carpool pickup line. Yeah, and you know what, I'm proud
28:38
Speaker 1: of that moment. For the previous two years, it had
28:43
Speaker 1: been subtle bullying, like tripping him as he walked by,
28:48
Speaker 1: nudging him, pushing him, climbing it was an accident, knocking
28:52
Speaker 1: him down during soccer, claiming that was an accident. Um.
28:56
Speaker 1: When I finally did meet with the authorities at the school,
29:02
Speaker 1: guess what, there were twenty one other children represented that
29:08
Speaker 1: had also been bullied. Yeah, and I mean punched, kicked,
29:14
Speaker 1: pushed down, the works ugly things said to little girls
29:18
Speaker 1: by the boy bully. The girl bullies are a lot
29:21
Speaker 1: more subtle with just their words, but with physical violence.
29:27
Speaker 1: There absolutely is something parents can do. There is, and
29:35
Speaker 1: it was done. And I had no idea. Other parents
29:37
Speaker 1: were suffering in silence when their children were afraid, didn't
29:42
Speaker 1: want the mom or the dad to speak out. It
29:44
Speaker 1: happens all the time. What's so heartbreaking here is that
29:49
Speaker 1: the teachers were actually involved. So let me go to you,
29:54
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy. If this were prosecuted, you're the North Carolina
29:58
Speaker 1: family lawyer. What would the charges be, Kathleen. I couldn't
30:03
Speaker 1: put enough charges on these people, Nancy, And my personal
30:08
Speaker 1: story is making my reaction to the story. This much
30:14
Speaker 1: of this this important. My son was bullied in fifth
30:18
Speaker 1: grade by his teacher. In fifth grade, the teacher was
30:22
Speaker 1: telling the boys that they were going to get their
30:24
Speaker 1: butts kicked in middle school, that they were losers, and
30:28
Speaker 1: it went on and audi it was profanity in the classroom.
30:31
Speaker 1: We all complained. My son is now in seventh grade
30:35
Speaker 1: and I see the effects today very day. Today is
30:39
Speaker 1: his first therapy appointment because of what that teacher did
30:44
Speaker 1: to my son. So when Ashley said these people parents
30:48
Speaker 1: need to make sure that they that the daycare, how
30:52
Speaker 1: are we able to vet the daycare when the teachers
30:56
Speaker 1: do not have the criminal record that they so richly deserved,
31:01
Speaker 1: You know what, You're right, How can they alan Duke?
31:04
Speaker 1: If you don't know about the teacher's history or even
31:10
Speaker 1: their work history where they've been fired, how can you
31:14
Speaker 1: evaluate the daycare center or the babysitter. Yeah, and if
31:18
Speaker 1: they choose not to prosecute or or discipline in some way,
31:22
Speaker 1: or if there's a license that could be revoked, you
31:25
Speaker 1: never know. And they keep repeating and repeating and repeating,
31:27
Speaker 1: and there's absolutely no tracking to that. So that's disturbing.
31:31
Speaker 1: Now I've got a four year old grandson, and I
31:33
Speaker 1: just could not imagine finding out this happened. My biggest
31:37
Speaker 1: challenge when they're with me is to keep my four
31:39
Speaker 1: and five year old from hitting each other. No John
31:41
Speaker 1: David and Lucy was specifically my sweet little shy Lucy.
31:45
Speaker 1: She would sit there so sweetly. I remember I was
31:48
Speaker 1: doing a show at h l N one night, and
31:50
Speaker 1: of course I had a nanny cam on watching them
31:53
Speaker 1: and Lucy and if my husband was sitting there asleep
31:57
Speaker 1: in his chair, Thanks David and Lucy, they were both
32:03
Speaker 1: sitting there in their little pretend sofas with Dora and
32:07
Speaker 1: Lightning and Queen on them, and they were watching I
32:10
Speaker 1: don't know, um, not Dora, but oh the Crats, the
32:14
Speaker 1: wild Crats, the two comic brothers that discover animals in
32:18
Speaker 1: the wild. And uh, all of a sudden, I see
32:22
Speaker 1: Lucy sneak up behind John David and hit him in
32:24
Speaker 1: the head with a block, a wooden block, and of
32:28
Speaker 1: course all h E double l breaks loose. I nearly
32:30
Speaker 1: had a fit. So you know, since those top days,
32:35
Speaker 1: they really don't hit too much anymore, but at the
32:39
Speaker 1: time it was all I could do to just keep
32:42
Speaker 1: them apart. They were like two wild animals. This is
32:46
Speaker 1: not helping these children go up. Now, that's a whole
32:50
Speaker 1: child development issue. I'm not a shrink. I'm a prosecutor.
32:55
Speaker 1: I'm a trial lawyer, and I'm telling you these women
32:58
Speaker 1: need to go to jail. It with child endanger meant misdemeanor.
33:03
Speaker 1: In that jurisdiction, it goes up to twelve months felonies
33:08
Speaker 1: one to ten years. What about it? What's wrong? Why
33:13
Speaker 1: isn't that happening? Dave Mack. According to the prosecutors, they
33:16
Speaker 1: just had insufficient evidence to prosecute this case. But I
33:20
Speaker 1: gotta add one last thing. The idea of Nancy Grace
33:23
Speaker 1: throwing a fit in uh in a line at school
33:27
Speaker 1: cracks me up. That kind of owns me. Gotta be
33:29
Speaker 1: honest with you, I oh yeah, that that moment. It
33:33
Speaker 1: still makes me so upset and angry because, like I
33:38
Speaker 1: was saying, John David, he's a lover, not a fighter,
33:41
Speaker 1: and he just really didn't even know how to react
33:45
Speaker 1: when he got punched in the stomach on the playground. Um,
33:50
Speaker 1: I'd rather somebody do it to me than do it
33:53
Speaker 1: to my children. I'm I'm all for this mom suing
33:56
Speaker 1: Dave Mac joining me, syndicated talk show host, tell me
33:59
Speaker 1: about the mom sue since the city, since a circuit attorney,
34:03
Speaker 1: won't do anything, the mom is suing, But I I
34:06
Speaker 1: was going to ask you about this because she's only
34:09
Speaker 1: suing for twenty five dollars and it's going to be
34:11
Speaker 1: a civil case, I guess. But dollars doesn't seem like
34:16
Speaker 1: much considering the fact that she has been failed. She's
34:20
Speaker 1: a mom who had her kill kids in daycare and
34:22
Speaker 1: finds out that she her children, both of them. The
34:25
Speaker 1: ten year old is upset because he had a video
34:28
Speaker 1: tape his own little brother getting beat up. And you've
34:31
Speaker 1: got the other one that's now concerned about what kind
34:33
Speaker 1: of trust issues he's going to have with his friends
34:36
Speaker 1: because it was his best friend that was counting him
34:38
Speaker 1: with the whole cans. So the mom is suing for dollars,
34:42
Speaker 1: but I gotta that just doesn't sound like nearly enough.
34:45
Speaker 1: On top of the lack of criminal charges. In the video,
34:48
Speaker 1: he's wiping his face over and over again. The daycare worker,
34:52
Speaker 1: you see her walk over to him and tell him
34:55
Speaker 1: you know you're fine, and like pat him on the
34:59
Speaker 1: back back and then walk and start another fight. With
35:02
Speaker 1: other kids. When we chose a new daycare for him
35:05
Speaker 1: and he started going, he asked me in the car
35:09
Speaker 1: if they were going to make him fight, we will
35:12
Speaker 1: see Oh my god, you know the way he said,
35:21
Speaker 1: everybody he puts her in the face, they're fighting. He
35:27
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had his iPad on him that day. Who
35:30
Speaker 1: knows if if we even would have found out about this.
35:33
Speaker 1: The state really just gave him a slap on the hand.
35:36
Speaker 1: In the video, he's wiping his face over and over again.
35:39
Speaker 1: The daycare worker, you see her walk over to him
35:42
Speaker 1: and tell him, you know you're fine, and like pat
35:47
Speaker 1: him on the back and then walk and start another
35:50
Speaker 1: fight with other kids. When we chose a new daycare
35:52
Speaker 1: for him and he started going, he asked me in
35:55
Speaker 1: the car if they were going to make him fight.
35:58
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody, I means grace. This is Crime Stories.
36:01
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. You just heard mom
36:04
Speaker 1: Lisa Marcill telling k t V I t V that
36:08
Speaker 1: her son's face is clearly visible in the video. And
36:12
Speaker 1: it is. It is visible in the video. I'm looking
36:16
Speaker 1: at it right now at crime online dot com. And
36:20
Speaker 1: I don't understand how the circuit attorney Kim Gardner is
36:24
Speaker 1: claiming she doesn't have enough evidence to prosecute this case
36:28
Speaker 1: because Vincent Hill, Uh cop turn p. I I can
36:32
Speaker 1: see the kid very clearly who he is, and I
36:35
Speaker 1: can also identify the teacher or standing on the sideline
36:39
Speaker 1: egging him on, telling him to kick kick the little boy.
36:43
Speaker 1: Several teachers you can see them, and daycare workers you
36:47
Speaker 1: can see their faces very clearly. Vincent. Yeah, Nancy, I
36:51
Speaker 1: don't know what evidence she's looking for unless you know
36:54
Speaker 1: she's looking for statements from the witnesses. But the witnesses
36:57
Speaker 1: are miners, they're toddlers, so they can't even and testify
37:01
Speaker 1: in court anyway. So I don't know what's going on here, Nancy. Again,
37:05
Speaker 1: I'm befuddled. So what could we do now, Ashley Wilcott,
37:08
Speaker 1: if we wanted to push this forward in a criminal charge, Well, listen,
37:12
Speaker 1: First of all, it shows like yours, Nancy, so you
37:14
Speaker 1: can put a spotlight when there's a failure of our
37:16
Speaker 1: justice system. The second thing is, I'm so proud of
37:19
Speaker 1: this mother for doing a civil suit because it's needed
37:21
Speaker 1: in this case with a criminal justice system has failed
37:25
Speaker 1: her and isn't pursuing charges. The third is people need
37:28
Speaker 1: to call into that district attorney's office because there are
37:30
Speaker 1: charges they could press. I do not agree. I cannot
37:33
Speaker 1: believe there's insufficient evidence to prosecute in this particular case.
37:36
Speaker 1: What it says to you, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer,
37:40
Speaker 1: is that it results in imminent risk or harm to
37:44
Speaker 1: a child's health and welfare due to physical, emotional, or
37:49
Speaker 1: sexual abuse. Now, if this does not affect the child's welfare,
37:53
Speaker 1: I don't know what does. It absolutely affects the child's welfare,
37:57
Speaker 1: and I would love it if you would say the
38:00
Speaker 1: name of the prosecutor and her phone number again, sure
38:03
Speaker 1: as Kim Gardner G A R D N E R
38:07
Speaker 1: phone number three one four six two two four nine
38:10
Speaker 1: four one repeat three one four six two two four
38:15
Speaker 1: nine four one. The statute of limitations has not run
38:21
Speaker 1: in this case. To our understanding, this case can still
38:25
Speaker 1: be prosecuted. Let your voice be heard when you hear
38:31
Speaker 1: this story. Think about substituting your child in this scenario.
38:39
Speaker 1: Your child, your niece, your daughter, or your son, your grandchild,
38:45
Speaker 1: just four years old, being forced to go back in
38:48
Speaker 1: the ring after three consecutive fights, the teacher pushing him
38:53
Speaker 1: back in. The child down on the floor on his back, crying,
38:57
Speaker 1: crying as is beaten by another student at the direction
39:04
Speaker 1: of the teacher. Tap fight has to stop. These women
39:11
Speaker 1: need to be behind bars so they can't hurt any
39:14
Speaker 1: more children. Nancy Grace's crime Story signing off Goodbye friend,