Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / Global Trade Shakeup: Trump’s Tactics, Major Deals, and Supply Chain Response

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Global Trade Shakeup: Trump’s Tactics, Major Deals, and Supply Chain Response · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:06
  Hello everyone.
• 0:07
  Dave Gulas, Beyond Fulfillment Podcast special edition.
• 0:11
  Back again with my good friend Jim Tompkins.
• 0:14
  Welcome, Jim.
• 0:15
  Thank you, Dave.
• 0:16
  Good morning to you.
• 0:17
  Yep, good morning.
• 0:18
  We're recording this early on a Monday morning, busy week for both of us here and all types of news going on relating global trade over the past couple weeks.
• 0:32
  So let's, let's get right into it.
• 0:34
  So we saw some substantial movement on the tariffs last week and Also, you know, U.S.
• 0:41
  is negotiating with numerous countries.
• 0:43
  I mean I've heard numbers all over the place, 200, 150, 100.
• 0:47
  I mean what, what's the real number?
• 0:50
  Well, yeah, that's, I know it's not 200 because there's only 195 countries in the world.
• 0:56
  Although possibly some people could say, well that 200 number is the 195 countries.
• 1:04
  And then in addition to that there's about 10 trading blocks, you know, things like USMCA and ASEAN and European Union and African Free Trade and Caribbean Community and so forth.
• 1:17
  So you could get over 200 if you looked at all the countries and the trading blocks.
• 1:22
  But, but the number 200 doesn't make any sense.
• 1:26
  The number 150 doesn't make any sense.
• 1:29
  And in today's Wall Street Journal, Trump, they say that we are looking at 18 significant trade countries that we're looking at working with.
• 1:42
  But now when they say that, are they talking what's the European Union?
• 1:47
  The European Union is 27 countries.
• 1:50
  So if we look on April 2, when Trump did the reciprocal tariffs he had on that list there was 90 countries and one of those countries was European Union and we know European Union is 27 countries.
• 2:07
  So there wasn't 90 countries, there was really 117.
• 2:11
  So you know, it's kind of hard to know how you are counting countries and so forth.
• 2:16
  But forgetting the trading blocks, just looking at the real countries, there's at most 50 and probably less than 40 real trade deals that are going to be done because the others just aren't significant.
• 2:33
  But there's different reasons to do trade deals.
• 2:38
  And so we need to look at the number kind of open mindedly.
• 2:43
  I think we're going to probably do some trade deals that don't really move the needle, but there's going to be other reasons we want to make those happen.
• 2:50
  So I think at the end of the day we're probably going to come out of counting countries something like 40, 50 trade deals.
• 3:00
  Okay.
• 3:02
  So even if with that number, I mean that's a lot, but how important are all of These.
• 3:08
  And what are the main ones to focus on?
• 3:13
  Well, it's certainly not 40 or 50 that are important.
• 3:17
  In fact, if you look at the top five, the top five are China, European Union.
• 3:24
  Now, that's again, the trading bloc, not the individual country, but China, European Union, Japan, India, and the U.K.
• 3:34
  and then if we include the U.S.
• 3:37
  gNP there, that those six countries, China, European Union, Japan, India and U.K.
• 3:43
  plus the U.S.
• 3:44
  makes up 68% of the gross national product in the world.
• 3:49
  Those five countries with the U.S.
• 3:51
  make up 55% of the trade deficit.
• 3:56
  So if we can get China, European Union, Japan, India and UK really lined up, that's going to make a huge, huge impact on global trade.
• 4:05
  Now, what's the next bar?
• 4:06
  Well, the next bar would be, I would call the top 10.
• 4:10
  And the top 10, I would include South Korea, Mexico, Canada, Vietnam and Ireland.
• 4:19
  And that gets us up to 73% of the gross national product when you throw us in with those 10.
• 4:26
  And it gets us 81% of the deficit.
• 4:31
  And so it really takes a nice, nice hunk, 73 of the global GNP and 71% of the deficit.
• 4:38
  If I wanted to add two more, which I think are going to be included for sure, that would include Israel and Indonesia.
• 4:45
  Indonesia because it's the fourth largest nation in the world, Israel because of the strategic significance to the United States.
• 4:52
  That would take us the top 12, which would be South Korea, Mexico, Canada, Vietnam, Ireland, China, European Union, Japan, India, UK and then Israel and Indonesia.
• 5:09
  That gets us to 75% of the gross national product and 83% of the deficit for each country you would add next.
• 5:18
  And the next, I don't know, seven or eight or ten, I would add, would.
• 5:24
  Would get us something like if we added the next eight.
• 5:27
  So we got the top 20, that gets us to 80% of the GNP and 88% of the deficit.
• 5:34
  Any country you add after that, you're only going to add a half a percent to the GNP and about three quarters of a percent to the deficit.
• 5:42
  So you're going to run out of countries that are going to move either of those needles pretty quickly.
• 5:46
  Top 20 is 80% of the GNP and 88% of the deficit.
• 5:51
  So we really got the problem surrounded by those top 20.
• 5:56
  In fact, if you do top 10, you're really, really, really getting a lot of movement.
• 6:01
  The challenge with top 10, top 10 includes Mexico and China.
• 6:05
  Excuse me, Mexico and Canada.
• 6:07
  And Mexico and Canada.
• 6:08
  Trump's kind of holding back at this point as, excuse the phrase, a Trump card if he needs that later because he figures they will come along.
• 6:17
  And that's why we got the one month delay.
• 6:19
  There's no changes in tar between US And Canada, given that.
• 6:25
  What Trump says is, yeah, aluminum and steel, but anything else that's really allowed under USMCA is still under USMCA and we're not breaking that treaty.
• 6:37
  So there's really no big change with Canada and Mexico at this time that's going to lay it up in a month.
• 6:44
  And Trump picked that time because he figured within that month period, he's going to have something going as far as his other paths forward.
• 6:53
  Okay, and to follow up on that, Jim, what's the strategy that Trump is using to negotiate on these tariffs?
• 7:03
  Well, the strategy Trump is using is the strategy of maximum leverage.
• 7:09
  And so what he does is he looks at the playing field and says, who are my weakest adversaries?
• 7:18
  And then he picks out the weakest.
• 7:19
  And that's where he has maximum leverage.
• 7:21
  And so that's where he goes.
• 7:23
  Here he has two strategies because his weakest adversary is either China or it's our allies.
• 7:35
  Okay?
• 7:35
  And so people are saying, why is he, why is he harming our allies just like he's harming his enemies like China?
• 7:41
  China is the big, big kahuna.
• 7:43
  But the issue is, can he really affect China?
• 7:47
  And so he's got two strategies.
• 7:49
  One strategy is called the direct negotiation, where he's directly negotiating with China.
• 7:56
  The other strategy is called coalition negotiation.
• 8:00
  So the coalition negotiation says, let's get Canada, let's get Mexico, let's get the uk, let's get Israel, let's get India, and let's all come together and come and fight China as a coalition.
• 8:14
  So Trump, at this point, he thought he was going to be going with the coalition negotiation because China was really, really, really playing hardball.
• 8:24
  But what has happened is China is in big, big trouble.
• 8:29
  Their economy is collapsing.
• 8:31
  And so what he has found is China was very open to deal last week.
• 8:37
  And so starting the weekend before they started having these negotiations, this discussion, China continued to talk tough.
• 8:45
  And in fact, China has refused even announce the agreement.
• 8:48
  However, the agreement has been made, and so we are making good progress.
• 8:53
  So Trump's strategy, number one, is direct negotiation with China and to get the best deal he can from China.
• 9:02
  And if that deal is good, then he's going to stick with that strategy.
• 9:06
  If he does a deal with China and the deal doesn't turn out so well, then Trump will switch to the coalition negotiation.
• 9:13
  And that's when he Brings out the Mexican and the Canadian as well as the UK and the Indian and the other ones that he's already very strong working on.
• 9:26
  So it looks like, I mean, if what we have is China puts a 10% tariff on us, which is what they have right now for 90 days, that's good.
• 9:38
  And we put a 30% tariff on them, that's good.
• 9:42
  Okay.
• 9:43
  And so we, although China is claiming they won that negotiation, I don't see how you see that.
• 9:49
  There's, you know, China, the, the 30% tariff we're putting on China, the US importers are saying, oh, that's great, it's down to 30 from 145.
• 9:59
  Well, but the 145 was never going to be collected.
• 10:03
  That was a gun to your head.
• 10:05
  That wasn't a real number.
• 10:06
  I mean, why 145?
• 10:08
  Why not 151, 181, 120?
• 10:10
  All those numbers over 100 are ridiculous and never can be collected.
• 10:14
  People can't trade like that.
• 10:16
  And so that's what happened.
• 10:17
  China trade stopped.
• 10:19
  And when China trade stopped, April, every week in April got worse and worse and worse and worse.
• 10:23
  More ship cancellations, more containers loaded, ready to go, but sitting on the dock and not moving.
• 10:30
  And so what we found is Trump had maximum pressure on the Chinese and so he moved quickly and was able to get the deal done.
• 10:41
  Now if Europe and Japan and India, Canada, Mexico, South Korea, if these countries start coming, say, oh wow, you're doing the China deal first.
• 10:52
  We want to get in ahead of that.
• 10:54
  Trump's got 90 days to look if he wants to move the strategy, depending on how China responds to the quote, Next 90 days.
• 11:02
  But it's right now, Trump's strategy is direct negotiation with China and that's going to stay until it changes.
• 11:12
  Okay.
• 11:13
  And speaking of China, late last nude, late last night we got the news that they just announced a new anti dumping duty on several countries, which is the US, the eu, Japan and Taiwan.
• 11:34
  And tariffs are duties as high as 74.9% on imports of industrial plastics.
• 11:42
  So, so what do you make of that?
• 11:45
  Well, that's China fluffing their feathers, you know, I mean that, that, that didn't make today's Wall Street Journal, but it is on the news on the wire today and it lacks specificity because industrial plastics, it's not clear what
• 12:06
  that category is.
• 12:08
  Is that plastic components?
• 12:10
  Is that raw plastic?
• 12:12
  And then up to 74.9, I wonder if it's up to 74.92, 74.93.
• 12:20
  I mean, and that's a joke because the 0.9, someone says tell them it's going to be under 75%.
• 12:27
  So some news guy said that's 74.9, but, you know, that's not a real tariff.
• 12:32
  You're not going to really do that.
• 12:34
  So it doesn't surprise me.
• 12:37
  There's, you know, some strong negotiation on fentanyl.
• 12:41
  There's some good news.
• 12:42
  The deaths from fentanyl in the United States are down for this year compared to last.
• 12:47
  But there's still way too many people dying.
• 12:50
  And so there's some issues there that they're not happy with.
• 12:54
  There's some issues that, on the table that need to be addressed.
• 13:01
  But the, the agreement is we're not going to do this for 90 days.
• 13:04
  So now are they changing the 90 day thing or is this saying they're going to do it after 90 days?
• 13:09
  We don't really have a, a really good feel for what China's doing with this.
• 13:14
  So I think this is them understanding Trump's won the first round.
• 13:19
  And so let's begin the second round with a couple good punches.
• 13:22
  And so this is going to make them sound like they're standing up for their rights and not letting the US Buckle them under.
• 13:28
  But, and there's going to be more of this and then Trump will respond and there's going to be the discussion, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:35
  And it's not going to mean anything.
• 13:36
  It's just preparing them for the next time they get to the discussions, to the negotiating table.
• 13:43
  And so I don't think this is significant enough that it's going to have any impact on the 90 day thing.
• 13:49
  I don't think this is significant enough that's going to change Trump's opinion about direct negotiation.
• 13:55
  So from a strategic point of view, no impact at all.
• 13:58
  It's just, you know, the two boys in the yard fighting and a guy throwing another punch.
• 14:05
  Okay, all right.
• 14:07
  And big news last week, all throughout the news with, with Trump's trip to the Middle East.
• 14:13
  So what happened there?
• 14:17
  Well, you know, the, the Middle east was kind of a continuation of what we saw in the first hundred days, but from a different angle.
• 14:28
  In the first hundred days, it was really important for Trump to get domestic investment into the country.
• 14:35
  And so domestically, he raised over a trillion dollars.
• 14:40
  And that was exciting.
• 14:42
  And he saw the opportunity to do a very similar thing in the Middle East.
• 14:50
  And so his primary objective on that trip was trade and investment, but he also had the objective of working on his strategic positioning of his Foreign policy.
• 15:03
  And how is that going to come down?
• 15:06
  So the reports from last week were a little bit confusing because from one set of announcements that you saw on the TV, it sounded like you got 2 trillion in purchase orders and 2 trillion in investments.
• 15:21
  Well, that didn't turn out to be true.
• 15:23
  It turned out to be 2 trillion in total.
• 15:27
  And so the total, what we see is Saudi Arabia made 600 billion in purchases, and that's in AI and military equipment.
• 15:37
  UAE made 200 billion in purchases, and Qatar made 250 billion in purchases.
• 15:45
  And so that totals to be 1,050,000,000.
• 15:54
  But then also Qatar made, in addition to the 250 billion purchases, they also made a 1.2 trillion investment to be defined.
• 16:05
  And so the way people get the 2 trillion is they add the 1 trillion plus, a little on buying military equipment, airplanes, and AI and the 1 trillion plus that's going to come from investments from Qatar.
• 16:23
  So what we're seeing is it's a part two of the investment strategy, but now not looking domestically, but looking at it from a global point of view.
• 16:34
  Very successful trip.
• 16:36
  I've never had a business trip where I sold a trillion dollars.
• 16:39
  I've never had a business trip where I sold a billion dollars.
• 16:42
  And so, you know, a good business trip, well worth the time and the energy at the same time.
• 16:50
  It helped United States with some strategic positioning.
• 16:54
  It allowed us to show a foreign policy which, again, according to Trump, he always likes to change things up.
• 17:04
  And so his clarity with Iran and nuclear power and them having a bomb is very clear.
• 17:14
  The Iran needs nuclear power like a hole in hand.
• 17:19
  They're sitting on a huge, huge, huge surplus of oil, so they don't need it for energy.
• 17:25
  The objective of their nuclear program is to have the atom bomb, and that's not going to happen.
• 17:31
  And we all agree on that.
• 17:33
  I don't know anybody who disagrees with that, not letting them have that, but then him kind of giving them an opportunity to, quote, be great again, as well as giving Syria a second chance, which they deserve new leadership
• 17:46
  there.
• 17:46
  I think that was politically smart for him.
• 17:50
  And, and while he's doing that, he's kind of with his people in China, easing the trade with China.
• 17:58
  And so I think that's, I think it's a good move.
• 18:01
  The Middle east shows more of how we work together with people as opposed to being against people.
• 18:10
  Trump is better known for being an agitator as opposed to a builder.
• 18:14
  And I think the Middle east trip gave him the view of being a statesman and working together and in all the pomp and circumstance stuff, you know, it really made for good tv and he got a lot of
• 18:28
  eyeballs and he came home with $2 trillion.
• 18:31
  So not a bad trip.
• 18:32
  Not a bad trip.
• 18:34
  And what, what significance does that, that trip and the results have on the trade and tariff negotiations?
• 18:42
  Well, the, the, the whole week was just like all over the place.
• 18:49
  I put down 10 things that I thought happened last week that were significant, and I don't know how to rank these.
• 19:00
  Number one, and not necessarily in priority order, but just the first one I wrote down and because maybe it affected me the most, is the stock market recovery.
• 19:10
  The stock market recovery both here and in China was very, very positive.
• 19:15
  That, of course, came from the US China deal, not from the Mideast trip.
• 19:19
  But I think the Mideast trip contributed that because it gave people feeling like our president was acting presidential and not like a bully.
• 19:29
  And I think that was a very positive thing.
• 19:33
  The fact of the matter is a 90 day delay on China with US taxing them 30% and them taxing us only 10.
• 19:43
  That's clearly a win.
• 19:46
  The Chinese kind of got a win from it because they really need the time to stabilize their economy.
• 19:52
  Their economy was in trouble.
• 19:54
  It's been in trouble since 2021, but it really was getting in bad trouble.
• 20:00
  And so he needed to make the.
• 20:01
  China, needed to make something happen to open their economy again because it was closing very rapidly, companies were firing people, which doesn't happen in China.
• 20:11
  But it was at this time.
• 20:14
  At the same time, Trump had a real problem because the retailers were saying, I'm not going to have anything on the shelf for back to school.
• 20:21
  I'm not going to have anything on the shelf for Christmas.
• 20:24
  And so there was a real issue with how do we open up China again so that we don't wind up with a black back to school and a black Christmas.
• 20:35
  We need to have the products in.
• 20:37
  And so that was done.
• 20:38
  That's, I think, where the 90 day came from.
• 20:41
  They felt that that would allow China to stabilize its economy a little bit and us to get things done.
• 20:47
  Last week, the US UK deal was significant.
• 20:51
  Probably the most significant part of that is when it began by Trump openly saying, I'm going to be reducing tariffs.
• 20:59
  And in fact, this is coming in a lot of places.
• 21:02
  His new trade policy program includes very clearly reducing tariffs.
• 21:08
  So that was a big deal.
• 21:10
  Japan and South Korea are all over the Chinese deal and they didn't want to be in front of China, but now they do.
• 21:18
  And so that's kind of lit a fire there.
• 21:22
  What we're seeing is that the China deal had significant impact on the fears of inflation.
• 21:32
  And so we're making progress on inflation and this eliminated the fears of inflation.
• 21:36
  So I think that's going to have some impact on the Fed.
• 21:40
  What we're finding is a large number of companies are now looking and saying we really need to alter our supply chain.
• 21:49
  We've got too much dependence on China now.
• 21:51
  This began several years ago when we did China plus one.
• 21:56
  And then we, we said, let's move, let's get out of China.
• 22:00
  And so now there's a strong movement of people looking at alternative sourcing and looking at how they're going to alter their supply chain.
• 22:08
  And as we've discussed the whole reglobalization thing, interestingly, great progress was made last week in Israel, India, Indonesia, European Union and Chile of all places.
• 22:21
  So good, good, good activity going on.
• 22:25
  Mexico and Canada, no news at all.
• 22:27
  Quiet, quiet, quiet.
• 22:29
  And that's interesting because what Trump is doing is he's keeping them in his back pocket as a tool that he might need to use.
• 22:40
  And, and so Canada and Mexico are just kind of business as usual.
• 22:44
  Not much happened there at all.
• 22:45
  So an extremely busy week with the kind of the headline about the Middle east, but then all these subplots moving along and making great progress.
• 22:56
  So I think it was a good week for the United States.
• 22:59
  I think it was a good week for global trade.
• 23:02
  Okay.
• 23:03
  And you mentioned China and the 90 day pause.
• 23:06
  That was big news.
• 23:07
  You know, about a week ago when you, what impact do you see that having on this whole situation?
• 23:14
  Well, I think there's a, it's a cooling period, but a cooling period, not as in let's go to the beach and take time off because they are working harder now than ever to get the issues that are outstanding
• 23:31
  resolved.
• 23:32
  Some of those are very trade issues.
• 23:33
  Some of those are with pharmaceuticals, some of those are with rare earth materials.
• 23:40
  There was some movement on the rare earths that are needed for EVs and for regular cars as well.
• 23:50
  So there was some real solutions being provided there getting the China economy moving.
• 23:59
  I think one of the things that probably wasn't really discussed between the US And China, but US Supply chain folks would definitely look at is you don't just, you know, kind of in April, you know, you went down
• 24:14
  about 20% a week.
• 24:16
  So first week you're 20% off.
• 24:18
  Second week you're 40% off.
• 24:20
  Third and fourth week you're 60% off on your shipping.
• 24:23
  You don't just say, okay, well let's put all that stuff back on the water because, you know, you don't have the containers, you don't have the ships.
• 24:29
  And so it takes a while to get this thing up and running again.
• 24:35
  And after being down in April, as much as we were getting back up in mid May is not an easy thing to do.
• 24:46
  The container rate between US and LA, between China and LA went up by 8% for this week.
• 24:55
  And some are talking about it could go up an additional 20 to 30% in the month of June.
• 25:01
  So shipping costs are going to be higher, there are going to be port delays again because we're trying to do it all in one time zone.
• 25:09
  But we will have products on the shelf for back to school and we will have products for Christmas.
• 25:15
  The other thing that's going to exasperate that is everyone's now looking at, can I get everything in country by before the 90 days are up?
• 25:24
  And so there was a flurry.
• 25:25
  I got a bunch of emails said, Jim, when does a 90 day start?
• 25:29
  And it's not that clean.
• 25:31
  This is not precise.
• 25:32
  You know, you can't set a stopwatch.
• 25:34
  And exactly, you know, the 24th hour on the 89th day say, ah, now it's going to be changed.
• 25:40
  It's not going to respond like that.
• 25:42
  But the tariff rollback has really saved us the peak.
• 25:47
  And once again, I think one of the things that's funny is if two years ago you would have told people, we're going to have a 30% tariff from China on everything that comes out of China, we're going to
• 25:58
  put a 30% tariff on.
• 26:00
  They would jump off the top of the building, they would pull their hair out, they'd run around yelling and screaming, but now they're saying, oh, wow, it's down to 30%.
• 26:09
  Isn't that great?
• 26:10
  And so it's funny how people emotionally get engaged here without really looking at the business implications.
• 26:17
  So I think the 90 day delay was, came from Secretary of Treasurer and I think he did a great job on selling that to both the US and China.
• 26:33
  And at this point it's kind of US and China sitting there with Secretary Besner kind of, kind of refereeing.
• 26:40
  And I think that's cool that, you know, the referee lives here, so good job on his part.
• 26:47
  Okay.
• 26:48
  And with, with this whole situation being so fluid and so unpredictable and change is happening all the time for companies that are involved and they have, you know, supply chain, whether in China or elsewhere, and they're trying to
• 27:04
  navigate the complexity and really figure out the right moves to make for their own business.
• 27:10
  Talk about the importance of having a partner that understands this and really has a re globalization strategy to help companies navigate these uncertainties.
• 27:19
  Times.
• 27:20
  Yeah.
• 27:21
  I tell you, Dave, the, the thing that's unbelievable.
• 27:24
  There's lots of executives who are now saying in the Journal and on the fox news and, and other news, wow, we've got much greater clarity on what's going to happen now.
• 27:37
  And so now we can start moving forward with our plans.
• 27:40
  And I think it's great they're moving forward with their plans.
• 27:43
  But the plans P L A N S.
• 27:47
  It's not move forward with my plan.
• 27:50
  If what you have is one plan, you got a problem.
• 27:53
  Because there is as much uncertainty out there today as there was last week or the week before.
• 27:59
  The week before.
• 28:00
  There is a lot of progress, but that progress gives and goes.
• 28:05
  You know, it's like the industrial plastics thing.
• 28:07
  We didn't explain that.
• 28:08
  If you and I would have done this podcast 24 hours ago, you and I wouldn't have mentioned industrial plastics.
• 28:15
  But today it's a topic and so, you know, it needs to be looked into.
• 28:20
  And so there's a lot of uncertainty still there.
• 28:23
  And with that uncertainty, you need to be looking at your trading partners, you need to look at your sourcing, you need to look at your transportation providers.
• 28:32
  I mean, my goodness sakes, the people out there that are buying on spot transportation, they're going to pay a fortune and they're still not going to get their stuff delivered.
• 28:42
  Because the people that are working with the big players in transportation, they have already got all the new ships, all the new.
• 28:50
  This, they're full.
• 28:51
  Okay.
• 28:51
  And so we went from, you know, canceling, you know, an 18,000 TEU ship to downsizing it to 14,000 and then sailing with 80% full.
• 29:03
  And now all of a sudden, you know, we've, we've got 35,000 TEUs we want to put on 18,000 TEU ships.
• 29:10
  It don't fit.
• 29:11
  And so who's going to get it?
• 29:13
  Well, the ones that have the long term contracts and the ones that have the relationship.
• 29:16
  So knowing who your transportation partners are, knowing the leverage they have in those different ports, knowing the dredge companies that can get you the empty containers is really, really critical.
• 29:31
  Understanding that your sourcing people are partnering with you and you're really working together as one.
• 29:38
  So I think it really takes us into this whole thing of understanding the relationships we have with our entire end to end supply chain.
• 29:47
  It's not Just looking back at your Chinese manufacturer, what is the Chinese manufacturer, his relationship with his raw material.
• 29:54
  It's not just looking at Indonesia, it's where does he get his raw material?
• 29:57
  Where are we getting our transportation from?
• 29:59
  How are we getting some priority on the ports?
• 30:02
  How are we getting into the ports we're going to.
• 30:05
  And so it truly is a supply chain topic where we need to look at the integration, the responsiveness, the agility and resilience and the optionality of the supply chain.
• 30:18
  And it could not be more important than it is today.
• 30:22
  Retailers who haven't done a good job planning to this point are going to have a hard time getting that product in time for holiday.
• 30:30
  The ones that have done a good job, they now they're free road ahead.
• 30:34
  It's going to happen.
• 30:35
  Might cost a little more than they thought, some from tariff and some from transportation, but they're going to get the product in and they're going to have it on the shelf.
• 30:43
  So it's really, really, really important that we continue to focus on the importance of supply chain, the importance on the relationships within that supply chain and the technology that allows us to manage that and respond to these changes
• 30:55
  as they keep happening.
• 30:57
  Okay, Absolutely.
• 30:59
  And yeah, Tompkins Ventures and is an excellent partner to help companies do that.
• 31:02
  We'll link their info in the show notes.
• 31:04
  As always, Jim, appreciate the insights and the, the wisdom on these, these topics as they continue to unfold and the changes continue to happen.
• 31:15
  So appreciate that as always.
• 31:17
  Talk soon.
• 31:18
  I look forward to it.
• 31:19
  Thanks, Dave.
• 31:23
  SA.