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All Mermaid Stories Are Trans · Like a Virgin

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Did you win any money? No, of course not. I
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: can't play any games to save my life. Did you
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: lose any money? I mean yes, I lost twenty dollars
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: at the Sex in the City slot machine of Oh
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: my god, I lost twenty dollars of the Sex of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the City slot machine too. Welcome to the first like
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: a virgin of I'm ros damn you, I'm fan Toronto.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: How were your holidays? I mean I kind of know already,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: but I think you um your trials and tribulations should
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: be shared with the listeners. You know. I honestly, I
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: won't detail that the saga that was trying to make
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Adele on Christmas Eve happen for Justin and I, but
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I will say it required planes, trains, automobiles, cancelations, rebookings,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: entire flights just not happening for us, and ended up
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: with me and Justin getting in touch with a mutual
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: friend of ours who knows Adele in order to see
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: her on New Year's Eve, which we did, and it
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: was so HOWE tell tell me about the show? I wish,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: I wish there were words that I could put to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: what it feels like to do the New Year's countdown
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: with Adele, it makes perfect sense to me why she
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: is one of the most, if not the most universally
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: beloved celebrities in like the culture, point blank period, like
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: next to Tom Hanks and Dolly Parton, But like she
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: really is perfect. How did she sound? Obviously she sounds
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: better than the recording somehow, like she busts her gut.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And beyond that, her voice is so emotional and she's
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: so expressive, and I'm like, how do you do the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: show over and over again? But this like mega camp
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: that's on your face as you're performing is like the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: most emotive thing I've ever seen, Like it's as if
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: you're performing it for the first time. Like she's so
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: in her feelings when she performs. And she also is
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: obviously amazing at crowd banter and did tons of it
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and has so much fun with it. And she cried,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: so she does a lot of vampang and vamping. She
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: goes into the audience, she vamps. She did all of
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: her hits, like she cried while talking to the audience,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: like she's just herself, and she does it all without
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: shoes on because she's got psiotica and she's like, I'm sorry,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I got I got real bad. That's like that's like,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: that's like, you know, that's saying where it's like anything
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a man can do, a woman can do and in
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: heals like not me, not me, No, I'm there foot Yeah, god,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: it was it was. It was gorgeous. I mean, like
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I feel like I mean a one glass of champagne
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: did cost fifty dollars, but that's not surprising. What were
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: some of the standout songs she performs? Okay, so I
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: am just context for the virgins, Um I am like
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: not an o g Adele stand. Justin is very much
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: so an o g l Adele stand. I hopped onto
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the Adele train in her thirty era and have now
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: gone back and started to love her previous catalog and
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: her her songs from twenty one were the best songs
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: like she did Take It All One and Only and
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: someone like You Obviously and she did Rumor has It
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and Rolling in the Deep and set Fire to the
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Rain and don't You Remember, which are all bangers. Every
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: single song on the album is such a fucking banger.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Did she do Hometown Glory? I actually can't remember. I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: like blacked out for like some one of my Adelais.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, what other what other adel phaves do
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: you have? I love the River leah Um. It's one
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: of my favorite adult songs because Charlene once performed at
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: this party that I used to throw and as she
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: lip synced it, she pissed into our friends. Now, well,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I'm sure Adele would love that. She would live, I
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: honestly was. I went. We went to a nightclub after
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: we went to Piranha, and I half expected her to
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: be there because you know she's known for hitting up
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the gay Yeah yeah, yeah, her and Jennifer Lawrence loved
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the gaze. Oh my god. Um. Anyways, long story, Shart,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: it was perfect. What did you do for New Year's?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I rented a house in the cat Skills with some
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: friends and we drove up there on Saturday, made a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: really lovely dinner. Um. My friend's boyfriend cooked ham um,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: which was delicious, and then we we watched Miley cyrus
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: her little you know New Year's Special, which was dumb.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Oh it was It looked good, no, I mean her
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: her performance with Dolly obviously was incredible, but her Paris
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: performance was bad. No, no, it wasn't her that was bad.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: It was just the whole thing, and all these musical
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: act who were not Miley Cyrus or Dolly Parton, who
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: was like, please get off the stage. And there were
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: some little sketches that were cute, but there were just
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: like a lot of commercials and we were watching it
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: on Peacock and it was like every commercial break was
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: the same three commercials over and over again. It was excruciating. Yeah,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: But then we were just in the Catskills for for
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: two nights and did a lot of sitting by the fire.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I took a lot of baths. We had a hot tub.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: It was really beautiful now and now it's January. Honestly,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: it is early January. We pretty much had like the
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: opposite New Year's. Like I was in Vegas. Have you
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: ever been to Vegas. I've been to Vegas a few times.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I had never really done Vegas before, and like it
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: is a theme park like it is. I I joked
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: that it was like Berlin for heterosexuals, because it's kind
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: of this like sin city that feels like it would
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: be something culturally important to like heterosexual people where they
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: can be like godless heathens and like. But it's like
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: it was truly bizarre. Um, but I loved it. I
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: love casinos. I so I'm I don't care about gambling.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's very dumb. I think it's very dumb.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: But every time I've gone to Vegas, I've you know,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: said like okay, like I'll go waste in a slot
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: machine just for the experience of doing it, and once
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the money runs out, I'm just like done, I disengage.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I don't care, like I'm not. I don't I don't
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: want to get lucky. I'm you know, even if I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: won money, I would like I would stop once, you know,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: once that twenty was up. Um casinos are fascinating and
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: terrifying to me, like the fact that like you get
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: free booze while you gamble, and like that they like
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: pump like like pure oxygen into the casino like routinely
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: to like keep you awake, and like the fact that
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: like there are no clocks in any casinos and they
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: keep the lights on at the same time the whole
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: day because they don't want you to like know what
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: time of day it is, which is so fun it's gross.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And so I do, like I do like to smoke
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: a cigarette and because I did the last time I
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: was in vegasigarettes. I smoked a cigarette while playing the
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Sex in the City slot machine, and you know, I
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: loved that little fantasy. And then I went and saw Gaga.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: The girl behind me was smoking smoking a a capri?
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Is that are the thin ones? A capri? With the
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Sex in the City slot machine. Um, I also have
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: to say, like sex casino security are so fucking scary. Like,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: we we had so much Justin had so much fun
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: playing blackjack with this like one dealer and we were
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: building building a little bit of a rapport with her,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and we were like, oh, we have to go get cash.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back. And when we came back, they
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: had reassigned her to a new table and she was
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: gone because the manager had saw that we were like
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: getting chummy with her, and so they were like, we
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: don't want them to keep winning money, Like she needs
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: to be moved. Isn't that scary? That's evil? It's evil
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and weird. And also like also maybe she just didn't
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: like you. Maybe she was aer pubbic and she was like,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I got to get out of here while they're gone.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: She's like, please reassign me. Oh that's so funny. Um. Yeah,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: and she met the thebel singular and plural. Also, like
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: casinos are like I forgot that. Like casinos are like
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: intentionally designed to be confusing, like labyrinthine and like covered
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: like hall of mirrors, like getting out in and out
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: of every casino and they're all connected, which is crazy,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Like it was like solving a Swedish puzzle box. Like
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I really could not. Um, but we should go together.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: We would, I'm sure we would have. I'm not going
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: back to Vegas unless it's for a very good reason.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I'm like, and I'm being flew out for Katie Perry. Yeah, um,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: well that's I'm so glad you had a good time
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: at Adele. So we both have seen two movies that
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: we have very different takes on, and you know, we're
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: going to try a little experiment today and I think
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: instead of duking it out over our you know, differing opinions,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: we're going to each talk about the things that we
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: liked about these films while the other person um sits
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and judges silently, and maybe maybe one of us will
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: convince the other one that that where they're wrong. Maybe,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: but probably not, probably not. So the two films, the
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: two films in question are Glass Onion and Knives Out,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Mystery and Roll Dolls, Matilda the Musical arguably the only
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: two films that were really during the winter break like
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: this is like they felt like a kind of slow
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: rollout for it felt like streaming didn't really do that
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: much releases. I also think even theatrically, there weren't a
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: lot of big Christmas movies this year. So if you
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: haven't seen either of these, they're both available to stream
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: on Netflix. Obviously, big spoilers for the movies. I can
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: go first and talk about Matilda. Um So, I did
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: mention Matilda briefly in our best of episode, which if
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: you haven't listened to go check out now. So I
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: saw it a while ago and I loved it. You know,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: obviously I have a big place in my heart for
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: the original Matilda. It was such an important movie to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: me as a kid. It was such an important book.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: And I've never engaged with the musical at all. I've
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: never seen it, didn't know any of the music. I
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: was very not even skeptical about it. I just was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: like almost a little bit apathetic going into it, and
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: I was shocked by how much I enjoyed it. I
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: thought it was such a fun movie, and it was
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: such a beautiful movie to look at. I thought the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: production design was really incredible. The choreography was incredible. It
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: looked expensive. It looked like a big blockbuster musical that
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: like was going to be released for Christmas. It was
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the kind of thing that I like, I think kids
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: will love and like watch over and over again. I
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: thought the performances were incredible, especially Lashawna Lynch who plays
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Miss Honey. She had me weeping anytime she had like
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: a song or like a tender moment with Matilda. At
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the end of the movie, when Matilda runs into her
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: arms and they hug, I even I lost it even
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: thinking about it now, I'm like getting emotional. Um. I
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: thought Emma Thompson was great. Um. I mean those kids.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Those kids were dancing like their parents was standing behind
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the camera with a knife to their Teddy Bears throat.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Those kids were dancing like their birthday party was about
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: to get canceled. They brought it all on the floor.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: And I like that it didn't try to, like one
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: for one be the original film. It really established itself
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: as its own separate thing, and I think it's a
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: story that like is um magical enough to have this
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: new life breathed into it and exists as its own
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: separate thing. Is it my time to speak? It's your time?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Did I convince you? Did I change your mind? Honestly,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: you you kind of did. I. I kind of have
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to agree with you on almost all of almost all
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: of your points here. I think the production value was stunning.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I thought Lashaunda Lynch and Emma Thompson were sublime. I
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: adored the allegiance to roll dolls Matilda and how this
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: story was darker and weirder and you know, had so
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: much more um kind of rolled dollion qualities to it um.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And I felt like that was like kind of one
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: of my favorite things about this adaptation. And I also
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: think the kids dance numbers or inarguably like awards worthy
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and so much fun to watch. I definitely had more
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: fun watching this movie than my dear friend Justin, who
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: adores the original Matilda starring bi Con Marrow Wilson, and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I do love the Marra Wilson version, But like Justin,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think ever read the original Matilda, and so
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: like doesn't know how the original movie is like really
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: really not in line with like how the book kind
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: of slurts through um Matilda's powers and all the different stuff.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: That said, I think that when children sing in groups
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that it is unlistenable and uncanny and cloying, lee sweet,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and like just really really not fun. And I think
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: that every single song in this musical just sounds like
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: a kind of child old marching band kind of like
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: every single song is kind of like I'm in offense
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: and this is what I'm going to do, here's what
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I'm set. And it's like it has this like bright
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: like marching band beat to it, and like every song
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: sounded like that, and it was so annoying and like,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like I could have watched a version of
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: this where there was no music in it, or where
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the music was like yeah, that's just Matilda, or more
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: than the music is like just better. But I didn't
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: think that the music created emotional steaks or added much
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: to the performance. I thought Lashawna Lynch and I thought
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: um Emma Thompson's songs were awesome, and I thought their
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: performance of it was great, But the majority of the
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: musical is children singing and they all sound haunted. And
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: you are the trunch bowl. You are the trunch bowl
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: is trans period. Um all okay. Also Bruce bog Trotter
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: in that fat suit, Mama, no unforgivable that I've Let's also,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I think that you'll agree with me on this. Mr
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: and Mrs Wormwood compared to the o G Mama just
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: did not do it. They did not. I don't agree.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with you. I loved them. I thought
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: they were amazing and their house was so beautiful. I
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: love their house. I love I did not think that
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: they're costuming was amazing, but I love the house. I
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: love the production design. The whole movie. Um, I just
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: felt like because Danny DeVito and the other woman like
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: just really fucking nail the other woman. Yes, I don't,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know her. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but they're
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: gonna kill you. I know, I know. But they literally,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: you chose books. I chose that. Literally, you're That's what
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. You chose books, I chose looks is like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: that if they're saying those performances are singed in our
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: memories as childhood, and so when you come in and
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: you reboot a performance, it's like you have to ring
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: something new. And all I saw was a watered down
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: version of what the previous iteration had done, and I
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: wish they had just done something like what Emma Thompson
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: did or what LASHAWNA Lynch did, which were just like
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: make completely different characters. Okay, well I don't agree, but
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I respect your point of view. Thank you, thank you.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Um Okay, now we're moving on. Yeah, let's talk about well,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: you talk about Glass Onion. I must say I did
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: not like Knives Out, the original murder mystery that came out,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: and this is the sequel to Knives Out. I felt
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: like Glass Onion was a substantially better in movie on
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: the casting level, on the writing level, on what it
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: pulled off in the last third, in the twist, and
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: in its primary performances. Janelle mone cells this movie so
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: hard and is such an incredible Lynch pen to Leshana
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Lynchpin to be the crucial beating heart and like I think,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: main character of the franchise. It was so smart and
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: so interesting, and she made Daniel Craig's character so much
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: more fun to watch. The biggest issue that I had
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: with like the original Knives Out, I had a lot
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to do with Like I felt like how the movie
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: thought Daniel Craig was the most interesting character, but he
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: was like literally so boring and was just this like
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: narrator Cipher. And I felt like the way Daniel Craig's
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: character was written for Glass Onion was so much more gay, funny,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: fun like made mistakes, like was a fully fledged character
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: that was interesting and participating in the humanity around him.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: And I thought that that just like hooked me in
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: so much further. And when I first started watching glass
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Onion and I actually didn't like I felt like I
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: wasn't gonna like it because I think the hyper contemporary
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: like name drop of humor is like very I rolls
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes but by you know, no spoilers, But by the
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: twist at the midpoint, I was in Mama, and I
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: felt like it did something that was a lot better
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: than what Knives Out did, which was instead of being
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: who done it, right, they tell you who did it
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: in the first third of the movie, and so the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: rest of the movie is a why done it? And
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: how done it? And I think that that made Glass
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Onion I felt a really substantive and windy action movie
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: that um grounded itself in great casting, great performances, a
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: super duper silly but satisfying maximalist ending that had I
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: felt brilliant. Thematic commentary that I thought was I thought
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: that the commentary about like you know, commentary about billionaires
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: can be very I roll. And when you we have
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: this like Jeff Bezozi kind of like CEO character that's
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: been written to death, I was like, I don't know
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: if I'm gonna love this. But the way it kind
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: of talked about this eruption theory and the way it
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: talked about the truth and like modes of justice were
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: like exactly what a modern who done it should be. Um,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I loved glass Onions. Surprisingly, that's great.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you, Love. I thank you for
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: supporting me. Rose. I thought Kate Hudson was fabulous and
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that's it. Okay, Well what did you not like about?
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: As my mother said, as my mother told me, if
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: at all. Well, this is a podcast, and I think
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the virgins will actually be like dying to hear why
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: you didn't like it. I just thought it was dumb.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I liked the first movie so much better. I thought
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: it was dumb. It's a completely different movie. It's a
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: completely different movie. I do think it comes down to taste.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I think the mystery of the first film is so
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: much tighter. I thought it was so much more interesting.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: I like to the family dynamics of it. I thought
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: this movie was dumb. I thought Janelle Manet was horrible.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: I thought the twists were stupid. I liked Kate Hudson,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: and I liked Hugh Grant as Daniel Craig's husband. And
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: that's it. Hugh Grant is Daniel Craig's husband. I forgot
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: that cameo is so fast. Oh my god. All the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: cameos were so gaggy. I mean two of them are
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: literally dead, which was a kind of whack. Yeah. Well,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: this is apparently a thing that like Ryan Johnson, all
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: these actors like that his films are the last films
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: they appear in. Who else. It happened with Carrie Fisher,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: with UM Star Wars, and it happened with um Christopher
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Plummer and the First Nimes Out, And now it's happened
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: with Angela Landsberry and Stephen Sondheim. I guess so I
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: have to say, like, I really hate like movies about billionaires,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and I did not actually love like kind of the
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Google play setting of glass Onion, And I feel like
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that's maybe some of what you were responding to at
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, like it's glass Onion doesn't
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: really okay, so maybe not glass Onion doesn't really have
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: the components of a movie I usually enjoy, which is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: kind of why I was really surprised by it. But
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: if you will indulge me on like what I liked
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: about what the movie taught, it's like it actually I
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: felt had a really like incisive critique about what tech
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: billionaires think disruption theory is and what someone like Janelle
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Monet things disruption theory is right, And I felt like
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: that was so smart because when billionaires and you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: rich people and all these different like girl bosses become
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: really rich by essentially adopting ideas and organizing methods and
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: like you know, being like woke or whatever and using
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: that to like climb to the top, they think that
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that's disruption when all they're doing is assimilating into capital
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is um and protecting like guarding themselves further and further
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: from real people. But when Janelle Money comes into this
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: like Pole debacle, her idea of what disruption is, and
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: how she kind of tears it all down is what
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: true organizing disruption is. It's about destruction, like volatility, it's
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: about demanding what is owed to you. And I felt
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: like when there's a kind of critical mass at the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: end that um, I guess provides a path to justice
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: that does not involve the police or the carcetral system
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: at all. I was like, that is like very radical,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: And I honestly, I'm not the kind of girl to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: give Netflix credit, to give Rihan Johnson credit, to give
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: big blockbusters like this credit, but like I was just like, damn,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Like I really loved what the movie did with its
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: like prospects of justice, even though it was really silly
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and maximalist at times. I think that is I'm not
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: saying this is like a patronizing way. I think that's
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a very generous, right it is. It is. It's a
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: very and and like I think it's really cool that
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you can look at that and and pick that out
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and like, yes, that is those are very good things
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: for a mainstream movie to be saying. I don't know
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: that I agree that that movie is saying those things,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: but I do think it's it's lovely that you can
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: see that in that film. I think it's about as
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: generous of a reading as when I said that Taylor
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Swift's karma, you know, mirrored Buddhist ideologies with karma, which
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: I that that's the thing, is like, that's what I
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: that's what I like to do, and I don't. I don't.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not here to give credit to the artist, but
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I'm here to give credit to how it was interpreted.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And um, yeah, listen, stories are powerful. Stories. Stories are
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: just like just like fairy tales, which is what we're
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: talking about today later in the episode, I hope you
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: stick around for that stories are so powerful. Although friend
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: and I have decided, I think we've said this, we
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: are so over so we're so over media about the
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: power of stories. I never want to see that ship again.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Which that is kind of the lesson of Matilda when
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: she's telling this fucking story about circus performers in like
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the most boring b B plot ever. Sorry, um, but
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: we should sell a hat that says stories are so powerful.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: We should. We should let us know if you if
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: you would buy a hat that said stories are so
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: poul and tell us what color, what color you think
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it should beat. Yeah. Also just tell us like signed
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to our dems, and tell us what merch you you
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: want from us, because we definitely will be selling some
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: merch this year. Once upon a time there were two
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: little dull and they lived on two different sides of
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: the same kingdom queendom, because this says this takes place
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in a matriarchy. Of course, one of them had dark
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: hair and one of them had red hair. Sometimes sometimes
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: depending kind of on what time of year it was,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the one with dark hair was loved to go to
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the ball, and the one with red hair did not anymore,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and however to stay at home. And um, the more
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: hermit like she became, the more the evil in her
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: heart festered. And instead of you know, kind of being
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: like happy, happy, go lucky, um little girl, she became
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: a witch. Um she said, if my stress out here,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: bring it to every ball? What if there were no ball? Exactly?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So she decided to place a curse on the kingdom.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: So and it was called COVID nineteen. Okay, Okay, this
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: is this is fun out. This is as far as
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: a little far um. Wait, wait, you're saying that you,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: as a witch created COVID nineteen so that we wouldn't
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: have to go to parties. Yeah, well, I mean, you know,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: it's um, it's fairy tales are things that help us,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: like like myths make us, help us make sense of
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: the world around us. So this is which is why
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: we're talking about it today, all about myth making in
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the kind of um fairy tale world. I guess. Yeah,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: we you know, have touched before on mythology, Greek mythology
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: specifically UM as one of as for both of us,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that really, um, we're
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: very integral to our you know, childhood and formation of
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: like what we liked culturally and and not to mention,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: it was one of the most liked episodes from the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: listeners according to our listeners survey. And you're not going
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to keep bringing up that damn survey. No, no, no,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: that's all I was gonna say. But you know, and
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: and I guess if we're thinking about, you know, the
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: more western canon, not that fairy tales are exclusive to
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: the West, obviously they're not, UM, but we what we
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: think about is, you know, the canon of fairy tales
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: are very much sort of the the like I wouldn't
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: say modern because they're like hundreds of years old, but
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: they're like the more modern equivalent of myths. They are
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: these you know, like stories for children that like often
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: teach lessons um or you know, a lot of fairy
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: tales like appear in many different cultures, so they're sort
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: of like the collective unconscious aid conscious through um, a
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: sort of fantastical story. And you know, in the world
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: we live in, fairy tales are because because um, the
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: world is all about I p UM and fairy tales
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: are public domain. UM. We live in a world where
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: fairy tales are recycled, rebooted, um retold, reinterpreted time and
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: time again. And they are like some of the most
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: universal stories we have truly, and a lot of them
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: honestly have not been like fully tapped. I feel like
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: like we know the ones that Disney did, but the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: way Disney doesn't is like pretty much completely like refreshed adaptation,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: like so much as a race from the original. And
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: then there's also this like whole other terrain of fairy
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: tales that have never been touched because they're too dark
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: or weird or like or like American audiences wouldn't understand them, right, Um,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: what's your favorite fairytale Rose, hmm, that is or maybe
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: one of if you like the first one that comes
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: to well, I actually know, so I know what it is,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and it's you know, I think that the term fairy
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: tale is is kind of a loose term, but probably
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: blue Beard. What happens in that one refreshed me. So
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: blue Beard is about this woman who marries this guy
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: and she like goes to his castle and he tells
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: her there's this like specific room that she's not allowed into,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and he's like there's this thing where he's like really
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: like nice to her, but then also he sometimes really
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: mean to her. And then she eventually goes into the
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: room and finds like the corpses of all his dead wives,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: and um, this as we're talking about retelling. My my
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: favorite retelling of of blue Beard's wife is in the
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Angela Carter novella The Letty Chamber. It's one of my
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: favorite books. I love Angela Carter. I'm an Angela Carter stand.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: That's one of my favorites and one of I think
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: it's it's it is a tale that turns up in
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: a lot. It hasn't had like a like literal adaptation,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: but it's a kind of story that finds its way
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: into a lot of media. It's like referenced in a
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: lot of media. I I remember Season one of You
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: kind of referenced blue Beard a little bit, and it's
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: it definitely is a motif that is visited a lot
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: in in stories. Um, what's your favorite fairy tale? I
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: feel like I vaguely heard of blue Beard, like it's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: been like it's been mentioned or something and something that
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: I watched. I was trying to google real quick. But
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: apparently there's a rumor that that Disney will returned to
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: hand drawn animation with an adaptation of that would be
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: they would have to really sanitize it. I will say. Also,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: did always really like the Snow Queen fairy tale, which
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: most famously is known as Frozen. Um, oh wait, there
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: the wait. Frozen is an adaptation of a fairy tale.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Frozen is an adaptation of the Snow Queen, and originally,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Elsa in Frozen was supposed to be much more explicitly
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the antagonist because the Snow Queen is the villain of
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: the Snow Queen, and then you know, they decided to
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: make it about sisterhood blah blah blah. Um. It's it's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: still a gag to me that they called it frozen. Like,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: you know, they have this like these, they have a
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: whole generation of stories where it's like Aladdin, the Little
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: mermaid snow White, like just like plain and simple, like
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: what the thing is. And then and then they moved
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: on and they were like Tangled, Frozen, Brave. Like it's
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: like these just these are just adjectives. Um. Anyways, I
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: don't even remember. I've seen Frozen once and I don't
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: remember any of the plot. All I remember is the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: end of Frozen is so good. Also, Frozen two is
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: really good. I've heard, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard it.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I've heard its laps um. It's funny. See, I don't
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: think I don't have the depth of knowledge on like
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: non adapted fairy tales that I think you have have.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: I actually really want to read that blue Beard adaptation.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: What's the author's name again? Angela Carter Virgins out there,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: if you've never read any Angela Carter truly, please read
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: The Bloody Chamber. Read Nights at the Circus. She is
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: the dividul herself. Love. Yeah, I mean my my boring
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: answer is Little Mermaid. I will always, always, always love
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: that story. I will love the original version of that
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: story that is like darker and like, do you wanna
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: do you wanna? Do you want to hear some tea
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: spilled on the secret gay life of Christian Anderson? Yes? Please?
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean I kind of know it, but
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: wanting so. We all know that the original you know,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: version of the Little Mermaid is much darker than the
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Disney version we all have seen. Um In the original story,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: the Little Mermaid when she trades her voice to the sea,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: which for legs, every step she takes it feels like
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: like knives are like being stabbed into her feet. Um.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: She at the end of the story is told by
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: her sisters that if she kills the Prince, well the
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: prince marries another woman, like he's fully not in love
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: with the Little Mermaid, And she's told that if she's
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: on the Little Mermaid is like, I'm going to be
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: a lesbian now She's like, I'm pivoting. Wait, Actually, the
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: reason that her feet feels like knives is because no,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: a fresh paradox. They have not been broken in yet. Okay,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: they have not been broken in and she is dying. Um.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: So she's told by her sisters that if she kills
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the prince and his wife that she will be able
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: to become a mermaid again, but she refuses to do it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: So she jumps into the ocean and kills herself and
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: gets turned into sea foam and she like has to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: spend like a hundred years in purgatory before she can
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: before she can go to heaven because mermaids don't have souls.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: So anyway, Hans Christian Anderson was a huge fag and
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: The Little Mermaid was actually a story that he wrote
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: and sent to this guy who had spurned his gay advances,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: his lover, his forbidden lover, and the Little Mermaid was
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: his avatar. Yeah, and he was just like being very
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: cunty and he sent the guy this story and was like,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: fuck you, I want to suck your dick and you
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: won't let me. So here's this story about a mermaid
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: who's walking on knives and kills herself. Wow, honestly, the
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: way that gays you know, you like like when we
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: watched something like Dynasty or Golden Golden Girls, like the
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: or like um Sex in the City, right, like the
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: way that gay men use like white women as like
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: avatars for like their own love stories. It's just something
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that has spanned for centuries, except you know, um Hans
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Christian understand was like we're going to do it like
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: on the interspecies level, like I'm a mermaid now, and
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that does that make it kind of transmits? Well, I
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: mean all mermaid stories are trans um but yeah, I
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: mean I would say actually all Mermaids stories are queer,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: and like The Little Mermaids specifically is about you know, um,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: transforming yourself for a forbidden love and having that love rejected.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: I mean it's you know all, I mean, all fairy
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: tales are queer and that they can all have some
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: sort of like queerness plucked from them. I have to say,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: like I my entry point into like fairy tale is
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: like loose, like I can't quite pin what it was,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: but I can say that like kind of adjacent to
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: this genre, which was maybe my truest first entry point
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: was the Fables of Aesop. Did you ever read the
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Fables of Aesop Fables A slaps fables? Yeahs ASoP skincarees Fables.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: It's like these rabbits and like you know Woodland, creatures
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: that like put on body bombs. What what are asops? Fables?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Can you name some of the like big hitters for me? Okay,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: there's the Tortoise and the hair, but yeah, of course
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: we know her, we know her. There's the Fox and
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the Grapes. They're town in Country the Fox and the Grapes. Yeah,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: when the Fox is like I want to it's like, okay,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: the box in the Grapes, the story of the Fox.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: It's not like the Fox on the Hound, which is no. No,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: it's the first, the first movie to ever make me cry.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: The first is not the last. The first, the first
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Disney movie to ever be like death is real and
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: you will experience it in your life. Actually that was
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: probably Bambi, unless that came first. I didn't remember come
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: first Bambies. Like one of the oldest Disney movies the
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: o g Um, you know, Town of Country mouse Um.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: There are things like I don't know that basically, like
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I don't even know if they were like religious. I
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: think they were like developed an ancient they I think
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: they were in ancient Greece. They were written in ancient Greece,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: but like they still had this like weird Christian appeal
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: that like my dad loved and so he would read
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Esop's Fables. Long story short is, these fables are pretty boring,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: like they're very morally like, they're driven by morals. The
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: fables are boring. But the soap slaps. The soap slaps,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the soap slaps. But this is like, honestly, what I'm
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: trying to say is like the water down very sanitized,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: very like morality conscious version of fairy tales that I
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: grew up with and that were encouraged strongly well, because
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: we have all these different iterations of kind of the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: same thing. You know. We have fairy tales which are
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: like these specifically fantastical like bedtime stories that are like fabulous. Um.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: We have fables, which like are like truly like stories
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: that are meant to teach lessons specifically. And then we
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: have folk tales, which are things like Paul Bunyan and
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: you know, um like like sort of like shared cultural
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and like I think specifically like national like have sort
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: of like a geographic specificity of like things that like
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: maybe we're true but have like sort of um transcended
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: into legend and they all serve different purposes, god, I
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: would love to like adapt one. Would you adapt blue Beard?
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Blue Beard if you could? Or is there something else
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: like in the kind of like fairy tale realm where
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: you're like that like really should be a movie. Um,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: you love the Swan Queen, I do. I do love
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: the Swan Princess, But that's a fairy tale. Yes, um,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: this one princess is a fairy tale. It has you know,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: has been adopted many times into Swan Lake, um, and
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: then Swan Lake into Black Swan. Um. There was the
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like incredible nineties UM animated film The Swan Princess. Oh
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: my god, I was so gagged every time she transformed
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: into a swan and then back into a princess like.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I like the like the way that the water like
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: swirled up around her was so great and then her
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: fair of faucet like blowout moment and also the opening
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: song about how she and the prince hated each other
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and then eventually fell in love. So good. Um. And
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: it had several UM direct to VHS sequels that were
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: not quite as good. I don't even remember the first
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: swe Maybe we're due for a rewatch here, um of
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: the what is it called the Princess Swan, the Swan Princess,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the Swan Princess. The fairy tales always have the most
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: obvious titles possible. It's like the Thing, thing, the thing,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and the thing and the thing, unless it's frozen. But
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: but that's not that's not a fairy tale. That's a
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: disney that's a disneyfied movie. But it's based on a
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: fairy tale. But the fairy tale itself is the Snow
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Queen or Rapunzel, Rapunzel. I never really cared too much about.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: What I did love was rumble Stiltskin because rumble Stiltskin
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: is fucking weird, weird, gross, weird, gross, powerful, weird, like
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: on so many levels because it's like this bitch her
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: father is like bragging about how she can turn straw
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: into gold, and so he gives her up to the
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: king because he's been out just out here lying um.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: And then she gets trapped in the castle and has
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: to spin straw into gold. And then this weird little
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: man shows up and she promises him her firstborn child
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: if he'll help her spin the straw into gold. And
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: also like she basically is like kidnapped, enslaved, and then
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: they're like, wait, you're so good at turning straw into gold.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: We're going to marry you off to the prince and
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: you'll be the queen and then you will rule over
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: the kingdom that kidnapped and enslaved you. Um, it's just
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: very strange and then like and also like every adaptation
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: of like Rapunzel, like Rumple steel Skin, like he gets
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: like very horny around riddle guessing, Like it's kind of
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: like his kink is like the riddles or not the riddles,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: like the thing about guessing his name, you know, where
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: she has to guess his name right, Well, yeah, that's
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: that's something I think that's like a sort of recurring
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: motif and a lot of fairy king is that names
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: are powerful and also that often villains um Ghoule's, ghosts,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: demons and stuff are always like kind of bound by
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: these rules, and rules are very absolute and fairy tales,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you know, there's like they wouldn't function without them. It's
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: like sure rumpel Stiltskin when she guessed his name could
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: have been like fuck you and then killed her. But
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: also it's kind of like his own hubris because it's
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: not like she says his name and he like, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: melts like the Wicked Witch of the West. It's like
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: she says his name and he gets so mad. He's
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: so pressed, he's so plucked by it that he stomps
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: into the floor and disappears. Did you ever watch the
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: ABC television show Once Upon a Time? No, but I've
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: heard amazing things. Can you kind of overview it for
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: the Virgins? Yeah? I didn't watch much of it. I
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: watched maybe the first two seasons. It's um uh. It's
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: about like literally every fairy tale coexisting um coexists in
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: like this same like magical realm, and because of a
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: curse by the evil Queen, they're all transported to this
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: like small northeastern town with no memories of their you know,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: sort of magical selves, and um um Goblin's like Goblin
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Egouli characters that are really heavily gross faces. Well, there's
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: rumble Stiltskin, who's like one of the main antagonists, and
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: he he in the original like fairytale world, has a
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: sort of creepy face, and then in the normal world
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: he's up pawn broker. He owns a pawn shop, and
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: he's he's also as it turns out, the Beast and
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast, and he's in love with Belle,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: who's played by the girl from Lost with the Baby.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: I'm looking. He's playing the girl from Lost with the Baby.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I'm looking, and I don't recognize any of the cast,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: but this is but I feel like the memory of
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: seen commercials on like ABC or something, Well, Jennifer Goodwin
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: is snow white and um her, I don't know. It's
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: it's not worth going, Like going into Once upon a
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Time is not worth it because I know that there's
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: a huge fan base around the show, but I didn't
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: watch past two seasons, and they did like as the
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: show went on. I just know from like cultural osmosis
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: that they eventually brought in like literally every fairy tale
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: like Elsa from Frozen was in it, the Wicked Witch
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: of the West was in it. It was like they
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: a really just kind of they took sort of the
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Kingdom Hearts approach to inclusion. UM diversity d n I
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: d n I for Disney is actually just combining fairy tales. Um.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: You know what else does this um that did actually
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: permeate the culture that we must discuss it must be
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: discussed was Shrek, right, listen, Shrek sh Shrek is Shrek
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: probably is like one of the first examples we have
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: of like meta commentary on the disnification of culture. I
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: mean that's what the whole first movie is really about,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: like the like Kingdom of do Lock is it? That's
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: what's it's called. Is literally supposed to Like there's that
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: sort of like small It's a small world esque moment um. Yeah,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: it's it's really like the deconstruction of of a fairy tale.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: That's what Shrek is. Yeah, because this proceeded enchanted, right,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: and this is I thought it was after but I'm
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: googling and it's actually one year before Lee Loan Stitch.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: And do you remember the kind of like advertising campaign
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: for Leland Stitch and how it like made fun of
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: other Disney I do vaguely that we're like Stitch would
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: come in and ruin like the banquet Hall of the
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast or whatever like, but that like
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Shrek was like doing that before. Like I mean, this
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: is was that this was not Disney and Streamworks, but
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: it really was like breaking apart like just like things
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: that we love um, and it was genius, Like it
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: was so ahead of its time when it came out.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like Shrek is like kind of a weird
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: part of like meme culture now, Like it's this thing
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: that we like all kind of joke about because like
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: he's so disgusting, and like talking about Shrek is kind
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: of like it has this weird like early ods nostalgia
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: attached to it that is like universally like recognize. Yeah,
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: there's a whole like Shrek core fashion movement. For I
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: feel like maybe once or twice a month in Brooklyn
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: someone does like a Shrek drag show or like a
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Shrek club night or yeah, there was a Shrek always
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: in the culture. Yes, there was a Shrek rave like
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: pretty recently, I think very recently there's like a meme
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: of Shrek wearing these kind of like balenc Yaga asked,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: since I know the one you also seen so much
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: shreks Dick so many times? Rose, Why why have you
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: seen shreks Because I exist on the internet. You're like,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: how have you not seen shreks um? But Fiona, I
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: mean Cameron Diaz some of her best work. Listen, I
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't say some of her best work, but because just
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: because I think there's work that's better. But you know,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy if she was there, And yes, that
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: is like it's the perfect subversion of a retailed the
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: damsel in distress. Like the curse that's placed on her
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: is like turns her into an ogre, but that's actually
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: like what leads to her happily ever after in this
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: very you know, like smart ugly is beautiful way and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: the sequel, um, Shrek Too is incredible and I think
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: I think better than Trek one. Well do you just
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: say that because of the fairy queen the ad fat
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: what's the girl's name again? Jennifer Saunders, Thank you Jennifer Saunders. God,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: you need to learn these things. Friend, I didn't watch
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: that's the ad bad woman right, yes, holding up her
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: holding up her hero still not available to listen to
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: on any streaming platform, which is a crime against humanity.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. She's so amazing in that movie. God, um,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it's a Shrek was the culture my parents
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: took me to that like it we were allowed, Yeah,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: we were allowed. And I you know that some of
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: those jokes are very some of the like there's sex
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: jokes in that in the first one, kind of and
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: my parents just like pretended like they didn't exist. Well,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: that's so many, so many kids movies. I think, especially
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: around that period in the early two thousand's are when
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: when there was this boom in mainstream kids entertainment. I
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: think when they realized that they had to start sneaking
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: in jokes that the adults could appreciate into kids movies.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: But also really around the time, like we were seeing
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: so much um fairy tale remakes and I think we
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: we will be forever just because, like as I said earlier,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: their public domain like they are, everyone has this, They
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: have this like universal like buy in. We all have
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: this like um like connotation for them. Um like what
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: like one that I think of a lot. Also from
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: around that same time as Ella Enchanted starring and Hathaway,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: based on the book, which I mean so formative. Listen,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: the book was very important to me, the film less
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: so because it's it's like not good um but um
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: for anyone who hasn't read it. Ella Enchanted is like
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: a kind of Cinderella retelling in which um, the Cinderella
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: in question, Ella has this gift given to her by
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: a fairy godmother that she must obey anything someone asks
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: of her. And that's what leads to her being a
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: servant UM and she you know, like falls in the
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: like plays out like Cinderella, You don't you don't need
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: more than that, um. But it's such a good like
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: like like middle grade book, and it was turned into
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: a film starring and Hathaway, And I actually said recently
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the Taylor Swift's Bejeweled video is very enchanted for it
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: is it is? Yeah. I actually rewatched ellen Chanted on
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: a plane recently and I was like, Wow, this movie
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: is bad. But but Anne Hathaway does a really great
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: version of Somebody to Love in it. She does, and
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: she's perfect for the role. I'm not gonna lie. And
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I love the blonde British actress who plays one of
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: her step sisters who like turns up in a lot
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: of those kind of movies from the early two thousand's
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: and also was in Netflix's A Series of Unfortunate Events
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: TV show and it's so good. I don't know what
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: her name is, it doesn't matter. One of the like
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: my earliest memories of these kind of like adaptations that
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: you're talking about that had to straddle adult audiences and
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: jokes with like the fact that it's a kids movie
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: was Aladdin based on you know, one thousand and one
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Nights and not a Western fairytale. But um my, mom,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: like when we bought this like VHS tape, would just
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: sat home and watch it over and over again because
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: they were like jokes for adults and kids. And I
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: know that like a lot of what like Robin Williams
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: did with that role was like ad libbed, and like,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: you know, there's like stuff in there that's just like
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: stuff that I would never ever understand as a child. Um.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: But I mean, damn, did did Aladdin win an Oscar? No?
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: That was Beauty and the Beast. Beauty and the Beast
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: was the first animated film to ever be UM nominated
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: for an Oscar for Best Picture and is the reason
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: why the Best Animated Feature category was created. Oh wow,
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: I did not know that the Disney change in the game. Um.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: You know, there are so many film adaptations of fairy tales.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I also love book adaptations of fairy tales, and there
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: have been so many great especially short story collections, UM
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: over the years. Um there's one short story collection that
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: I don't have a copy of it anymore. I don't
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: know why, but I need to to get a new one. UM.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: It's called My Mother She killed me, My father he
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: ate me. UM. That is definitely one that I recommend. UM.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite short story adaptations of a fairy
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: tale that I believe I've mentioned on this podcast before
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: is snow Glass Apples by Neil Gaiman. UM. It's a
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: short story that he wrote, I think maybe back in
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: the nineties, and it is a very very dark retelling
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: a snow White in which snow White is kind of
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: a zombie vampire monster and the evil queen is actually
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: the hero of the story. There's I believe a oh
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: I think I have it. There's a a graphic novel
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: um adaptation of it that's really beautiful. UM. I would
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: definitely recommend that. Also, have you heard I mean you're
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: not as like active of on book talk as I am,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: but have you have you heard of? Do you know
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: who Sarah J. Mass is? No? No, tell me? Okay, alright,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Strap in Virgence Okay. So Sarah J. Mass writes in
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: this like cross section of like romance fantasy, UM, and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: she has this very popular series UM called a Court
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: of Thorn and Roses. And the first book actually like
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: is basically a Beauty and the Beast retelling, but then
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: it becomes something else. Um, and it is. It's like
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: I read most of the books earlier this year, like
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: the end of last year. They're really bad. It's like
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the most like kind of pathetic self insertion like um
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: like like character x reader, like Mary Sue Vibes. Like
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: there's this girl who gets kidnapped by a fairy lord
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: and like he falls in love with her, and then
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: she gets turned into a fairy and it turns out
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: she has the most incredible powers and like it learns
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: how to use them immediately. And then there's this other
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: fairy who falls in love with her and they're destined
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: to be together. And he's like a thousand years old
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: and is in love with a seventeen year old girl.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: And it's just like it sounds like Twilight. It is.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: It is Twilight in a way. UM. I don't recommend
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: reading it unless you are really bored, but you know,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: go off if you do, go off, if you do. Um, Okay, look,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: we would be remiss not to mention, even though we've
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: already discussed it on the pod. One of your favorite
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: musicals of all time, which is Into the Woods, an
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: amalgamation of multiple fairy tales. You know, we've chatted about it,
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: but like you know, walk the virgins through, Like how
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: you feel about like this? What the what this musical
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: did for you when you first watched it? Well, what
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I love about Into the Woods is that it is,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: much like some of the other things we've talked about,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: is a musical that puts all of these different fairy
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: tales together. Um. And the you know, first half of
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: Into the Woods is about like the thing that is
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: at the crux of every fairy tale, which is um
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: wishing for something. The musical both starts and ends with
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: someone saying the words I wish um. And then the
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: second act of the musical is about what happens after
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: happily ever after, what happens after you get the thing
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: that you want um and you realize that you don't
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: want it anymore, or it doesn't make you happy, or
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: it just leads to a whole new set of problems, um.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: And Into the Woods is you know, tells that story
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: in such a beautiful way. Into the Woods is also
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: so much about the relationships between parents and children. Um.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: You know, like the the I think most beautiful and
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: like emotionally affecting song in the show is children Will Listen, um,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: which is also the song that closes the show um.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: And it is I think Sondheime's most accessible work, probably
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: because of the fairy tale of it all, because these
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: are characters who loom large in our cultural consciousness. And
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: this is I think, like the reason that all fairytale
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: retellings work on some level is because you have that
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: narrative shorthand of the reader or the watcher or the
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: listener whatever it is already um knowing so much through
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: using the these characters that you're able to use them
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: to tell a much more effective story that way. And
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: so like we we already know that that the things
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: that these different characters symbolize, like Red Little Red riding
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Hood and Jack and the Mean Stock are about straying
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: from the path and like you know, like not not
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: like going looking for adventure because like you you just
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: might find it and like it might kill you or
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: like whatever. Um, And through through those stories they're then
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: able to tell I guess, like the you know, like
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: the next the you know, those fairy tales are like
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: the one oh one lessons and like then into the
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: woods it's like, okay, well we're going to now teach
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: the two or two lessons or like the three oh three.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: This is lesson, This is a p this is pre
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: prestat tests. Yes, I really love fairy tales. I actually like,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe in some in some like alternative world,
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I like, you know, um, like got my masters and
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like a professor of like folklore or something l
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: L folks ll L folklore by Taylor Swift. Cur I
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: currently am a professor of folklore. Wait wait wait wait
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, there's a there's a jukebox musical
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: adaptation of folk tales that is set to folklore. Absolutely,
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: maybe it's folklore and Evermore I elect songs from folklore. Oh,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: I absolutely could see like a Taylor Swift jukebox musical
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: where the first act is all folklore songs and the
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: second act is all Evermore song. I mean, listen, she
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: is already, you know, doing her directorial debut. She's making
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: her directorial debut soon, um, making a movie or whatever.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: So maybe this is like project too. You should and
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: you're going to write it. No, she's going to write it.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: She's gonna She's not handing creative control over she's gonna
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: write Tree Pain. Tree Pain would only need to do
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: a very cursory Google search of me to get me
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: kicked off the project or not even not even in
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: not kicked out of a meeting. She's probably listening to
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: this podcast right now, Tree Pain, We love you, We
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: love you. Um Okay, if I ever adapted something, I mean,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: I mean obviously I would want to do Little Mermaid,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: but like it's it's already being done, and if like
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Sofia Coppola couldn't do her version, then like I probably
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: can't do want the Sofia version. I honestly think it
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: would be boring. I think it would be boring, like
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: that's what that's my that's my take. Um. But I
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: but it would be beautiful. It would It would be
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: so gorgeous still look at it would be and the
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: soundtrack would slap and it would be so angsty like
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: so teen angst Um. I would love to adapt Sleeping
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Beauty because these maleficent adaptations are these maleficent like you know,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: movies are like in my in my opinion, like total garbage,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Like I just like it's all c g I and
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: like there's a no like real imagination, and it like
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: there's no like there's no invention within the story and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: like the original Sleeping Beauty like it's just completely like
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: there's so many different versions of it that are completely
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: different from the Disney version, with the Disney version which
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: took a lot of creative liberties. So what would your
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: take on Sleeping Beauty be. I don't know, I have
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: probably like it would. Yeah. The whole thing is she
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: like picks herself on a needle, right, So I actually
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: think there's I think there is a Sleeping Beauty retelling
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: that's like kind of about No, maybe it's not. Maybe
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: she does an O D. I think that's too dark
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: to like queer cultural commentary. Like maybe it's like she's
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: getting a tattoo and um, the needles not clean, and
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: she gets an infection, maybe a topic she gets a
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: topical infection. Maybe it's basically like my year of rest
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: and relaxation, but it's kind of sleep it's kind of
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Sleeping Beauty esque, and she wakes she went yeah, but
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: she wakes up after one year and she realizes that,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: you know, the invention of the workforce is like the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: destruction of like our our our world and that, like
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: we have to fight capitalism, Like that's like the No,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, that would be so boring, but like
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: literally she's had like I think the original, in the original,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: her name is like Talia or something like that, which
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: is a name is Aurora. No, I'm saying in the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: original her name is Talia. Like, yeah, it's it's little Briar,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: they say, like little Briar Rose and like in some
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: of the earliest appearances of this story, which I think
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: date back to like fifteen fifteen hundreds, Yeah, the sleeping
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: beauty is named Talia, which is kind of that's a
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: very chosen name totally. I might actually know a trans
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: woman named Talia. I might know a Talia. Um. Yeah, no,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I'll have to think on my adaptation, Okay, I I
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: have mine. Yeah, what would it be? I was We've
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: already we've been throwing so many ideas into the pot here.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: What was so a weird fairy tale that I always
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: really liked is the twelve Dancing Princesses. Are you familiar? No? Okay,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: So the to Dancing Princesses is like it's kind of lame.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: It's like one of those fairy tales that has like
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: a very interesting setup but doesn't conclude in a satisfying way.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: So there's this king and he has twelve daughters and um,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: they're like not allowed to get married for some reason.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: And every night he locks them into their room. Um,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: but every morning the twelve princesses are exhausted and their
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: shoes are like all beat up, as if they've been
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: dancing all night. And so the king is like, Okay,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: if anyone can figure out what the funk my daughters
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: are doing at night to these shoes, they you know,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: they will get like whatever they want, Like I'll get
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: grant them anything they want. And so this guy is
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: like gets some kind of like cloak that makes him unseeable.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: It's like the invisibility cloak from Harry Potter, and he
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: um sneaks into the princess's room, which is inappropriate, um
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: and finds out that at night they open a trapdoor
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: in their bedroom and go out to like a lake
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: behind the castle or whatever, and these twelve boats come
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: and pick them up and take them to a castle
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: where they dance with twelve princes all night and then
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: come back in the morning. And um, like the guy
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: who's following them. He there's these three trees that they
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: walk by. One of them is gold, one of them silver,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: I think, the other one is bronze, and he like
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: picks these suits. He like picks leaves from them to
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: show the king, like for proof. Um. And so the
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: story ends in this very unsatisfying way, which is just
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: that he like tells on the princesses to the king
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: and the King's like, okay, well you can have whatever
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: you want. So the guy marries the eldest princess and
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: then becomes the next king. And it's like such a
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: lame version of story. Okay, So here's my adoptation. Okay, love.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: So the twelve dancing princesses, they're like, they live in
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: a punk squad and I'm in continue, they live in
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: a punk squat um and um they the punk squad
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: gets bought, okay, but they won't leave. So they're like,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: actually they're actually squat ing. And so this sort of
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: like yuppie developer um Is decides to like infiltrate their
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: the squat to like get them out. What about squatters, right, Well,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: I mean that's why he has to use you know, subterfuge.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: Uh So he you know, starts he like moves, he
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: like starts hanging around, and he's like, what are these
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: girls doing every night? Because like I can't find a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: reason to actually kick them out. And then it turns
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: out that there's a secret basement at the bottom of
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: the house where they throw raves and they're like raising
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: money to buy the house back from the developer. And
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: the shoe thing is like they're all wearing tabbies. I
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: don't know, yeah, the shoes. I was like kind of
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: waiting for the shoe spin. I was thinking, like maybe
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: they all work at like Aldo, or you know, they
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: don't work at Aldo. They work they don't have jobs,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: starting anti capitalist. So the shoe thing is they go
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: thrifting every day to buy new shoes because they like
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: wear their shoes out dancing all night. Um. But so
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: this this guy is like, oh, and they're not all
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: they're not they're not all girls, like they're all like
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: a gender, they're all nine mine areas. And so the
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: developer guy like he starts going to the raves with
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: them and he's actually like really into it and he
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: becomes a dj um and I don't know, this is
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: kind of spinning away from me a little bit. I
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: think I think no, no, no no, I think we need
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: to focus on the shoes, shoes. So it's about the shoes, right,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: And so maybe they're all maybe they're an organized crime
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: group of like punk squatters that that collectively steal shoes
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: from Steve Madden as a kind of transtor no, because
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: it has to be Steve Madden, because Steve Maddon is
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: the only one that makes, you know, shoes for girls
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: like me, you know what I mean, Like they're like
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: like Dillard's, Dillard's Steve Madden. I'm not going to fucking
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: like Heavenly Heals dot Com or whatever, you know, I'm
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: not gonna go get some Here's what it is is
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: these girls sneak out at night and steal people's Essence packages.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Except except Essence does not have very inclusive sizing unless
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: you're doing you know, the Tommy Dorfman for a Simon
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Miller collection. This needs a little more work, but I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: think that there's something there. I think there's something. There's
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: something with Ray. I. I do think the basement rave
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: is an integral part of the story. But we can't
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: forget about the shoes. Roses important it's like, you know,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: someone will help us put it together. We're gonna we're
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: gonna need to develop. Maybe there's a foot fetish thing
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: in there somewhere. What is it about fairy tales and feet,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: because like that's the thing with the original Cinderella, is
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that the step sisters in the original story, when the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: prince comes with the glass slipper to have them try
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: it on, the first one cuts off her toes so
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: her foot can fit into the shoe, and then the
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: birds are like, look at the shoe, look at the shoe,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: and like the looks and season it's full of blood.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: And then the other step sister cuts off her heel
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: and puts in the shoe, and the birds are like,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: look at the shoe, look at the shoe, and the
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: prince looks at the shoe and it's full of blood,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: and then the birds peck out the eyes of the
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: two stepsisters. It's really fucking dark. Um Okay, between that
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: and the fairy tale you were just talking about and
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: little mermaid with like the knives and her feet, the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: knives in her feet and like, you know, the little
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: red shoes, little shoes. I'm sure the beast from Beauty
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: and the Beast had a foot fetish too. Yeah, that's
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: the thing is like maybe Hans, maybe the brothers Graham
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: had like Ash Anderson had like a foot fetter. Also,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: when you think about Beauty and the Beast, like, it's
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: so funked up because all that happened was the Bell's
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: father stole in the original story, plucked a rose from
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: the garden of the castle, and then the Beast was like, okay,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: well you're my slave for all eternity now. And then
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Belle comes and treats herself for her father's place because
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: she was the one who wanted the roads. So it's like,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: actually her her fault, and she gets stuck with him
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: for all altern and he gets Stockholm syndrome and then
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: falls in love with him and she doesn't. Well, okay,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: I think we've talked about this. So in the Disney version,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: you know, he has to transform back into a human
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: before she falls in love with him. But in the original,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: she falls in love with the beat. She falls she
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: falls in love with the Beast. In the movie, she says,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: I love you before he turns back into the prince
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: Church or churcher. True. What I mean is that she
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: doesn't commit to him as a like only until he
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: transforms into human? Is it like a happy ending so
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: to speak? And there's there right, but well, I'm what
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: I'm saying is like in the original, I'm pretty sure
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: there's an iteration where he stays the beast and they
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: stay in love. I would love to see that version.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: I think I think bell if if after the camera
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: stopped rolling, I think she's like I kind of missed
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: it when you were I think she's a monster fucker.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: And actually in the in the Emma Watson remake, which
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: you know I did. I did cry when I saw
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: in theaters. But um, there's a little there's a little
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: moment at the end where like at the ball at
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: the end when they're dancing where the prince who is
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: um Lord Matthew from Downtown Abbey, where he like growls
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: at her, which is to suggest that he's retained some
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: of his like beastly tendencies, and I would hope that
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: um he still has like a huge monster cock um.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Speaking of beastly, have you ever heard of the movie
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: Beastly starring Vanessa Hudgens. No, is that an adaptation? Okay, yes,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: it's a Beauty and the Beast m retelling that sort
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: of came with Vanessa Hudgens. It came out post Twilight
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: and is very clearly trying to capitalize off of Twilight
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: Mania as a lot of immediate as a lot of
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: culture was trying to do at that time. And it's
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: it's also stars Mary kay Olson who playst who played Okay.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: So it's about this like rich kid in high school
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: who's like very mean, um, and he's very mean to
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: to marry Kate Olsen, who's just like a witch who
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: goes to the high school and she can and she
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: curses him to be ugly and like he doesn't turn
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: into a literal beast. He just like has like a
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: weird tattoos and scars and like a staple in his nose.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know. And his rich dad sends
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: him like sends him away to an apartment downtown and
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: they're the like Loomier and Cogsworth are an older um
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: like Haitian woman who's um not stuck as a clock,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: but her like children are are like back where she's
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: from and she can't get them. And then like the
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: Loomier is played by Neil Patrick Harris who's blind, who
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: plays blind which is not appropriate, and like he's and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: like he at several points in the movie is like, yeah,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: I mean you might be a beast, but I am blind,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: which is like my curse and it's so awful. And
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: so then Vanessa Hudgens, who is Bell, her dad is
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: a drug dealer, and the Beast quote unquote like witnesses
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: some kind of shady drug deal and he's like, I'll
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: keep your daughter safe. And so that's how she comes
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: to be like trapped in his apartment with him, and
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: then they fall in love. And at the end of
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: the movie when she like says she loves him after
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: her dad dies, I believe um he transforms back into
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: being hot again. Neil Patrick. Harris's blindness is um cured
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: so he can see um and they go to Machu Picchu.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: It's a very weird movie. Nothing that you said in
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: that sentence I could have predicted, like the word afterward.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: Absolutely never. I'm looking also now at like photos of
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Mary kay Olsen with this like and this eyeshadow. Mama,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: she was kind of serving. But let's let's let's say something.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: This guy as the Beast quote unquote he looks like
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: he's just going to battle him, like he really he
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: looks like he's going to un Yeah, he looks like
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: he's going to under Like he looks like a normal
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: guy with like alt face tattoos and piercings, like just giving,
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: like one of like he's giving. It's giving. He literally
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: could be like an editorial assistant at Simon and Schuster.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: You know, it's giving Susanne Barsh's follies, like you know
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's giving like I have like a
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: residency at the Mikittrick Hotel, you know. Like he also
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: definitely has a Prince Albert for sure. Yeah, oh for sure,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: and in only fans that like rich I would. I
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: wouldn't subscribe to it, but I would. I would certainly
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: watch clips of it on Important Tube. I know you
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: and I are already working on like another um you know,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: fairy Us adaptation thingy. But like, honestly, The Beauty and
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: the Beast is really good for an adaptation, like I think,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: but so done to death. No it's not. It's only
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: been done by Disney, like no one knows what and
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: by Beastly. No one knows what Beastly is. People know
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: what beastly is. We'll see, We'll let the virgins speak
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: on that. There was also the Beautician and the Beast story,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: which I've never seen why it was not good. I
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: don't remember literally anything about it, but I remember that
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: it's not good. Okay, well I think we should watch
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: it because honestly, it's fran Dresser and we don't have
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: enough friend Dresser content. Before she came out as an
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: anti vaccent she did come out as an anti vaxer.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: That's so unfortunate, but like a really yes, she came
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: out as an anti vaccer, but like kind of a
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: really nice one because her whole thing is about like
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: can't she has like the cancer shmancer, She has the
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Cancer Shmancer Organization, and like her primary concern is like
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: making sure people don't get cancer, and so she looks
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: at like, you know whatever. Anyways, well, no, it was
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: it's more about people. She was like celebrating that sets
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: because she's the sack after president, and she made a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: video where she was like, yeah, now people don't have
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: to be vaccinated to work on film and TV sets. Yes, finally,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: finally inclusion for us again, Inclusions, Inclusion iniversity and Disney
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: is so important. Okay, well, I'm so sorry to end
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: on on the fact that friend dresser I know and
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: they all lived happily ever after and unvaccinated. Slide into
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: our dms. Like Like a Virgin. Please rate us on Spotify,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: review on Apple podcast Us. You can also follow us
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: at Like a Virgin. I'm your co host Rose Damn You.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: You can follow me anywhere online at Rose Damn You,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: and I'm Fran Toronto. You can find me at France,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Squish Coo anywhere you like. Leg a Virgin is the
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: I Heart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Owner, with
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chitch and
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: Nikki Eatur. Until next week See Later Virgins Chow