Latest / Privacy Please / S5, E229 - Final Show of 2024: Finding Balance with AI, Privacy, Cybersecurity and much more!

Transcript

S5, E229 - Final Show of 2024: Finding Balance with AI, Privacy, Cybersecurity and much more! · Privacy Please

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: All righty, then.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Privacy, please.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I'm Cameron Ivey, alongside my friend and co-host and host, mr Cool.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Mr Gabe Gumbs, I got upgraded.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: I got upgraded.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I got upgraded.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: And the crowd does not actually go wild, it's dead silent over here it's dead freaking silent over there.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: There's no crowd.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: If there were, they'd be throwing tomatoes.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: They'd be like boo boo Boo this guy, you suck.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: We want the frog.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Points to anyone who gets that reference.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: It's a Muppets reference.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Speaking of the muppets, the, did you see the?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, the long-awaited very, almost kind of sad that the, the, that contract ended with the muppets, so they're kind of up in the air, I think.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Um, it was either with nbc or whoever they were with for the longest time.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: And yeah, but good news for Muppets fans they are removing Aerosmith Rocket Roller Coaster and putting Muppets in its place, because Aerosmith isn't relevant.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: But apparently their contract at Disney is still with Muppets.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Fascinating, fascinating.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Bonus news for Muppets fans the election is over, so all of your.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: For Muppets fans, the election is over, so all of your favorite Muppets have either won or lost.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: But either way, that's mine.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: It's just, I think the.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the only winners are the, the two old guys, Um, I forget their names.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Muppet one and Muppet two.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: No, don't.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: They.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Don't they have names, or no, don't know.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: The two, the two that are always in the balcony that are talking crap, oh yeah yeah, yeah, those are.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Those are the points.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Points to cam.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Those are the ones.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: That's that scream you suck, we want the frog.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I forget their names.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I forget their names, but yes, the two old dudes in the balcony.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: You suck, we want.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I wish that that's having them follow along your life would be pretty fun for them, I would I'd be okay with that I'd be okay down with that, yeah for sure, those two grumpy muppets following me.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: It almost feels like like your life is like that when you work in cyber security and privacy anyway, like those two muppets are just following you around all year round yep just telling you how much you suck and how much they want the frog instead.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Gabe, that's your internal voice Telling you that you're not good enough yet.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: So you keep going Saying the quiet part out loud, yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Speaking of.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I mean this is kind of off topic, but I don't know.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I think, um, there's been such a weird thing about bashing men this year, if I'm not mistaken.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: And you know what that needs to come to an end it felt like that, yeah, they were being attacked.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely felt like that.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I tell you, though, sometimes I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm skeptical and like who's driving these narratives right?
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Like true, because although I, I agree with it, it's like I, I read it and I'm like but who told you where you get this?
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Because none of us told you that.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, we were all faking it, but we didn't say this is true.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I know the men.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: We didn't say we didn't say.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: But the weird thing is is like I saw a lot of music too, a lot of a lot, a lot of artists that are independent artists making songs about men's health and mental health.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's been a decent trend.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I've seen similar.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good trend.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: It is yeah, technically on topic.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's our yearly wrap-up show and we were going to talk trends of 24.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: So all of these are very on top.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: That's true, it's very true.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Well, men's health is important, mental health as well as women and all human beings, and health, indeed, just all around.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, finding that balance is key for sure, your data health, your data health is important.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: The health of your data is very important.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Don't trust every doctor, you know what I mean no, no, some of those doctors aren't even healthy themselves, if you know what I'm saying.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Isn't that the worst?
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: You see a doctor smoking on a cigarette and you're like ugh.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: It's like a trainer that tries to tell you you know how to eat and how to train, when they're not even fit themselves, which is silly which is silly.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: No, never, um, never trust a skinny chef is what is what daddy used to say.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Papa always said never trust a skinny chef.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Wise words yeah, man was filled with wisdom well, yeah, I mean in reflection of 2024 as a whole.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Man, it's been a year.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot going on.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: You know what the number one thing was, and I think you'll agree with this.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: It feels like it's died down a little bit, but maybe not.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: But flipping AI.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Ai dominated 24 in every way possible.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Gpt was everywhere, like COVID.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Gpt was just like the infection that spread.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It was the COVID of 2024.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: It was the COVID of 2024.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: GPT was the COVID of 2024.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: That's the title of this episode.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Gpt was the COVID of 2024.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: And in a lot of ways, it did a lot of harm.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: It did a lot of harm the way COVID did harm.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: We saw an increase in cyber security attacks that were very driven um by ai, which is to say, the bad guys learned how to use ai to to to make themselves better.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Everything from generative ai to write better phishing emails to leveraging ai to write better malware code.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: We see it everywhere in the bad guy landscape, like oh, yeah, yeah, in uh ai.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I knew this was obviously going to be a topic that we're going to talk about, but let me just say one thing about chat.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: You just gave away to the listeners that we don't prep together ahead of time.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Who preps?
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Who preps?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Just you guys.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Boring, yeah what do you want us to read off some sheets or something exactly?
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: That's not real.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: That's not what we're here for.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: What's real is this chad gpt.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I do not like what they have changed with it recently, where it's trying to do too much.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Have you realized?
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed that, where you try to tell a simple task to help with organizing something and it just does way too much and you're like, no, what is this?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: This is this isn't even what I asked for I have gotten.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Whenever I do use generative ai, I've gotten very strict about like like my prompts have all kinds of details like and do not do it while standing on one foot facing east.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Wait, that's not how you work on a day on a standing desk right, like when you ask it a task, you're right, though like it's you've got to be like so much more specific, and I think that's because it's actually gotten better.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Like when it was dumber, it couldn't do more right like, so it was like, ah, I've done all I can and I've stopped, but now it's getting better and better.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Has this inverse property of like maybe doing more than you really need, or required or asked.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the only reason why I was saying that I agree with you.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I think it's gotten better, but I think it's also gotten like it's almost.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: You tell it something and then you have to reiterate the next round.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: After that comes the results.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: You have to say no, I want something a little more simplistic.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Like this is too much, so I'm having to go in and tell it like no, make this dumber for me please.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: This sounds so robotic.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I need a little bit more human, even though you're not a human.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: It's also gotten ridiculously good at coding.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I've used it to put us around with some very small projects of my own.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: How do you trust it?
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: How do you check it?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: How do you?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: So?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: The short answer is, at least for myself, is in small parts that I can actually validate like, as opposed to try to do big monolithic things, can actually validate like, as opposed to try to do big monolithic things.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Um, but I have a friend who's I I swear to you he's he's generating probably 70 of his code right now with just genervi.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: To be fair, he's doing a lot of prototyping work, which is probably what tools like genervi are best at right.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Like I don't think you want to use it to build real production software, but yeah, you know he's prototyping so much faster and cranking out tons of code with generative ai.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: It's impressive to watch it really is.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: So is that gonna?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, is that a threat to be taking jobs from coders?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: no, because actual coders still have to take prototypes and make it into things that work and scale.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: So no, if anything, I'm of the opinion that it might increase the number of coders.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: If we gain the ability to rapidly prototype more solutions, we may find ourselves needing more people to build those solutions, so it actually, I don't think, will take jobs away.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: From that perspective, and because it's gotten so good at, for example, the things I just described.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: We're going to also see the bad guys get a lot better at generating malware and all that's going to do is create more demand.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: On the defender side of the fence, ai is definitely creating an arms race, and the people in the middle sitting back selling CPUs to power this well, they had a really good year.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: If you look at 2024 stocks, if you think the AI companies did well, look at the chip manufacturers oh yeah.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: If you think the AI companies did well, look at the chip manufacturers oh yeah.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: Every chat GPT article was.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: They were just like that meme with the black guy standing behind a tree rubbing his hands like this.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: That was all the chip guys just like yeah, oh man well, you know what the old, the old adage goes.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but good versus evil, there's always got to be an evil if there's a good right.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: A bit of a nihilist view, but I get it.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't disagree.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: I don't disagree at all.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Existence is, it's good, yeah.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: We have to have that.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that balance has to exist somewhere somehow.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because how else are we going to get challenged or grow, or improve things.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: I'd be okay if ransomware never existed any longer, I mean, if it disappeared tomorrow although I'm heavily invested in solving the problem and I think one of the things as we get to talking about trends of 25, I think we will see the problem grow, but I think we're going to see more solution providers actually step up to the table and try and tackle ransomware in a way that isn't just a cash grab for them.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying I think the numbers are going to go down in 25.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I actually think the numbers may start going down by 2030.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: But I think the next several years it'll grow.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: But I also think we'll see a lot of people really fighting the good fight in a way that isn't, like I said, just a cash grab.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: We'll stay on this topic.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: So, when it comes to ransomware in 2024 game and the whole thing with AI, how has that changed the game in terms of like, did that make ransomware rise this past year?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And I mean, let's talk about it from a vulnerability aspect and also from the tool side of things, if, if you have that, that's a good.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: That's a good place to press on.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: So we saw the numbers rise for sure.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we can just attribute the numbers just to AI.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I think we could probably attribute the numbers to protect themselves against it, and it continues to also be difficult for organizations to recover after they've been hit by it, and so that has driven definitely a larger rise in the tactics being used.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: Ransomware attackers realize they don't just have to steal your data, they just have to keep you from your data.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: To steal your data, they just have to keep you from your data, and if they can successfully do that, there's a lot more ways for them to do that namely keep you from your data than it is for them to just get your data.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: And so that gave rise to it.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: What AI did do for ransom attacks in particular, it enhanced a lot of the tools that they were using.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: It really made it a lot easier for them to again do things like generate phishing campaigns that were grammatically accurate and were able to bypass security email gateways and things of that nature ways and things of that nature.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: We saw entire new malware kits show up on the black market that were all AI powered right Like we saw a lot of that.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So what we saw was AI contributing to the productivity of attackers.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: We definitely saw that, which is unfortunately.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think we saw as much productivity gains on the defender side of the fence.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Although a number of cybersecurity solutions were introduced to the market that all touted AI capabilities, I don't think I saw any that tipped the scales and it's like oh wow, okay, thanks to AI in this security product, we've now gotten much better at blank problem.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know anyone that can fill in that blank we've now gotten much better at blank problem.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know anyone that can fill in that blank.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So, in your mind and your thoughts going into 2025, I'm going to just do this now for this last episode of the year.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: If it is we're going to hone it on balance.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: How do you balance the new use of AI and inside cybersecurity.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: How do we find that balance going into 2025, in your opinion?
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I think we point those new tools at the problem, as opposed to trying to simply shove and embed them into the solutions.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: That's not meant to be an overly general statement, so let me bring it down a little bit more.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I think we have to start using AI smarter and better.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: We have to start using it to help solve the actual problems we're trying to solve, for example, differentiating someone posing as someone else versus that real person, right, as opposed to simply shoving AI into the box so that we can sell more of the thing in the box and go hey guys, look version five now with new AI, and the price has gone up.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: There's been a lot of cash grab.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: There just has been A lot of quiche, quiche, a lot of quiche, a lot of people grabbing at the quiche.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I like the qu cache.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I like my cache and cache.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: That's how I take it.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: So here's just facts, just to kind of look over that I pulled up Ransomware attacks increased by 150% this year.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: That's a wild number.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: 150%, that's a wild number, mostly for critical infrastructure and healthcare, yeah, which makes sense.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: That makes a lot of sense.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I think we'll see more of that.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: We saw a lot of healthcare attacks.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I think we'll see a whole lot more of that.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know how true this is, but maybe you can fact check it.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It says that AI driven cybersecurity solutions can reduce the threat detection time by up to 90%.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I can see the efficiency of using AI for that, but I don't know how true that is.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: That number seems a little high.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I think that number should be qualified.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: It can definitely increase the threat detection for a lot of tactics.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: There are specific tactics that become easier to find.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Can you give an example?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Can you give an example of what that actually means?
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's easier to detect leveraging AI.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Some network attacks Okay, especially some of the reconnaissance level attacks, attacks, right, like the ones that are simply prodding and poking and looking for things, because those, those have they're, they're pretty, the the probabilistic nature of them is relatively defined, that you can, like.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Ai is good for that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Ai getting better at, say, detecting phishing attacks I, I still don't think we've seen that yet and there's a little bit of I don't know how that's going to work either.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, you feed it more phishing emails to train it on it.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: But those same detection engines are being used by the bad guys as they generate new phishing emails to see if they can bypass them.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Right, that?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: I think there's some places where trying to leverage AI, in my opinion, is just not going to yield the results we actually want.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Using AI in the privacy space and or in the security space to identify sensitive information, for example yeah, I think we may continue to see those kinds of things getting much better.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Anything else on the security side to reflect on, maybe things around zero trust.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Zero trust saw a healthy amount of adoption in 2024.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know if 2024 was the year it went from just marketing buzzwords to real technologies that implemented zero trust I'll use the phrasing by the letter of the law, so to speak.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: You know, nist literally does have a series of bullet points that highlight, you know, what zero trust systems should look like and entail and how they should behave.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I feel like we've gotten better across the board at adopting zero trust, even if it's just the very first steps of okay, as an organization, we're looking to move towards that direction.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Definitely a great year for it.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Versus the years prior, it was still just a lot of talking and a lot of education.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like we're tipping past that.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I'll agree with that.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Let's move into privacy developments this last year, talk a little bit about, let's see, the role of privacy enhancing technologies, so other otherwise known as P E, t's um around modern data analysis.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, I don't know like differential privacy and homographic encryption were really big topics at least that I remember from this year.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, a lot of tech graphic encryption were really big topics at least that I remember from this year.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, um, a lot of tech, a lot of major tech companies were adopting.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: um, I don't know what are your thoughts on that.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: I think I saw three trends that really stood out in 2024, and one of them I think is a very important one which may have helped the others a significant expansion in the number of chief privacy officer roles.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: Those were either people that were taking on dual roles and or that role itself was created as an individual role, but ultimately we saw someone in a leadership position become responsible for data privacy, and that, I think, was huge.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: We saw that across the board in a lot of areas.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: We saw a hell of a lot of scrutiny of AI's impact on privacy.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Speaking of AI, there was a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of concerns around the impact that AI does have on privacy across the board.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: It had been so rapidly adopted, without necessarily balancing the needs that come along with privacy, that we probably don't even know the full extent to which some of those concerns are valid and others are less worrying.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: We saw that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And then was it last week's episode, I think you covered it, maybe it was the week prior to that we saw a significant rise in legislative developments.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Just tons and tons of new legislation, not just in the US but across the entire country, but hell in the US specifically, since we don't have a national law that governs privacy, data privacy that is.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: We saw so many on the state level.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: State level.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got eight coming in 2025 that are already going into effect, most of them in January, some in July, a little bit later.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Gdpr this is a fact.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Gdpr inspired over 100 countries to implement or enhance their data protection laws, which is crazy powerful.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: That's ridiculous, yeah.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: A survey found that 70% of consumers are more likely to trust companies that prioritize data privacy.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I know that was huge this year in consumer trust.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: That was a big thing, I know, which will continue.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Like how do companies and tech companies continue to innovate with consumer privacy as a priority?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, keeping it in mind, I think going into 2025, that's still going to be one of the number one things that companies are going to be thinking about when innovating and, you know, trying to uh, it's, it's, it's cool to see, because you can see that's the growth with consumers in general.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Oh, this company actually respects my privacy.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: They're not just, um, now, I'm not.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that apple doesn't they you, but they do a good job with this.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Using an example, when they do their privacy commercials, that's an easy way for a company to say for someone to see it and go oh okay, these guys, they're respecting our privacy.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know if that's just a ploy or if it's whatever, but it's smart for companies to obviously find innovative ways to show that they care about their, their customers and their, their actual privacy and their rights yeah but it's also going that way like let's move on to regulation, like you were just talking about a lot of regulatory stuff happening when it comes to let's see AI ethics board influence the development and deployment of AI technologies.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I mean just going back.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I remember I forget the name, but there was one guy that was in office that used AI to write one of their new bills.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: That got passed.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Do you remember that?
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I forget the guy's name.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: It was kind of a story.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I do remember it.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: I do not remember the name either, but it was funny to me because it's like he was like work smarter, not harder.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: But it's also kind of like so you ai write an actual bill and that it already passed, and but I think it was probably taken out of context, like I'm sure, I'm sure that they.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I think it was more so that it was structured, um, but anyways, it's just things like that.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: There was over 50 countries established ai ethics to guide technology use.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, data localization laws are in place in over 30 countries, which is pretty huge in terms of affecting global data flow, and this is interesting.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: The fragmented internet could cost the global economy up to $1 trillion annually.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that one means.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't either.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest yeah, I'm not sure what that means.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: If any of our listeners know what that means, these are just some facts that I've pulled.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to a more fragmented internet and less centralized.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping to see things like Mastodon, take off more and less.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: Consolidation of social platforms there's a small number of social platforms owned by a small number of entities.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: It's interesting too right like most people don't think about the nature, the decentralized nature of email and the fact that I can email you and we don't have to be on that.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Use the same provider right like we don't all have right, right, but if you and I want to communicate, say via, I'll just pick one twitter, then we, we all have to be on Twitter together.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Right, like it's not decentralized, I am hoping to see a rise in decentralized platforms.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: We've definitely saw some, with some of the fallout we saw with like Reddit this year.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: There were some decentralized platforms that stood up that well, they didn't stand up, they were already there, but they started taking on more popularity.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: That was another significant trend in 2024 a lot, of, a lot of decentralized technology platforms um that's a good point.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: That was one of the.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I can't believe we didn't think about that.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: That's well, you obviously just did, but that should be interesting.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Going into 25, because, yeah, you, I mean talking about proprietary, centralized platforms like threads, twitter.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Yep, talk about an annoying thing when you, if you use instagram and threads pops up all the time.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever seen what's on threads.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I have not, I do.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's worse than twitter.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I need, I am none of those I don't like it.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I don't like the way that all that's going with how people are using social media, things like threads, people are just posting things, just absurdity, yeah, to get to get engagement and reactions, and it's it's so troubling and distracting that I don't know.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: I mean I'm glad that Florida just passed a bill for I think it's either 14 or 16 years old aren't allowed to have social media accounts or something like that without a parent, which is great.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I think it should be a little.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I think it should be 18.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I was going to say.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know how one enforces that, but Well, I think I don't know how one enforces that, but well, I think I don't know.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, if 16 year olds can get their hands on cigarettes, booze and pornography, I think they'll get their hands on the internet.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: All right, it's, it's just it's good.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: It's good legislation for legislation seeing.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just not really sure where that goes I know I'm hoping'm hoping for you're right though, but cigarettes has always been a problem.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: Now it's vape pens, yeah there it is.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: That's what the kids are on Now.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so see, they'll get their hands on those.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Those things are even more addicting, I think.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, probably they're more dangerous because you can do them anywhere and you're just continuously doing them All the time.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: The effect of what they're going to be when you get older.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I don't want to get into that yet, thinking about my son when he gets a little older.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: No, forget about it.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Slap that thing right out of his hands.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: There it is.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: There it is Blue Sky.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk specifics too, right?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: We saw a lot of adoption of Blue Sky.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: A lot of people fled Twitter and head over to Blue Sky, which is a decentralized alternative to Twitter.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Did you ever look into it yourself?
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I mean no of it.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I've used it.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I am not on social like that.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: So, beyond my technology curiosity, short answer is no.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It looks just like Twitter.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I've never used it.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I've never even heard of this.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Where am I?
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Am I living under a rock, Gabe?
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: You know that's the thing is.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people haven't.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Really, the decentralized technology platforms are still mostly the domain of a lot of tech techies.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I think blue sky might be the first one to kind of make its way from the purely tech user adoption to regular user adoption.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: You know, but while we're, while we're throwing some out there, there's also mastodon, right.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So mastodon, yeah, we see we see a lot more adoption of that and you know, I would highly suggest folks go check out these decentralized platforms.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: There's versions of of of YouTube, even right like those are worth checking out.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: There's.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, actually you're.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: You're spot on here, Gabe.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: It says that decentralized identity solutions are expected to grow by 40%.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Hey, there you go, and 2025 look, the suit say is not supposed to be proven right until about 12 months from now, but I think that I I mean anyone who's tuned into the salty suit say before knows that he, he likes to, he likes to to to predict things that almost feel like duh moments and that one feels like a duh right, like.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: We'll definitely see more of that.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: We'll definitely see more folks.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Privacy.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I agree.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Privacy by design is apparently becoming a legal requirement in several jurisdictions.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Nice 85% of consumers are willing to pay for more products or pay more for products that guarantee data privacy.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: We talked about that a little bit.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I think those people should not do that.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I understand why they want to do that and why they're willing to do it.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I think that they should vote with their wallets in the opposite way and simply refuse to spend money on products that don't preserve their privacy, not spend more on products that will Wait, wait.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Say that again.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Simply do not purchase products that don't respect their privacy versus spending more for products that do respect their privacy.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like just don't spend money on the ones that don't Right.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: That's the way to drive the economic.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: That's a good yeah, that was almost a little confusing for me.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: I was like wait, so you don't want people going for that.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Well, that's a good, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's almost.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: That was almost a little confusing for me.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: I was like wait, so you don't want people going for that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I don't, I don't want to incentivize, like you can only get privacy if you can, if you can afford it yeah, which isn't fair that shouldn't be the way.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: That should not be the way which by the way, malls.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: This is, this is way out of left field malls and things like that need to be turned into homeless shelters and um places for like schools or things for kids that don't have.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: They should turn those places like because who malls suck?
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Let's be honest, they seem like they don't.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: We don't need them anymore.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: They seem like they've been dying so I've seen a couple do that I.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I have two.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen a few that I just wish more would do it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, use that so we don't have.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: You know, people that need help on the streets.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: You know, like, put them somewhere and try to like help.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I know that there's people out there trying to do that, but that's not.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: That's not.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: The government wants this, let's be honest, and if you're listening calling you out there, it is.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: They want you to be addicted to prescription medication or drugs because they want to control.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Anyways, we're getting too political.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Just don't, don't add.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Don't add us don't add us, we're just talking yeah, it's okay, don't get paid yeah, you don't have to listen.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not sorry anyways, um, all right.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: So security, security, well, actually, yeah, no, we touched on that.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: So security, let's talk a little bit about 2025 predictions, what you got.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: So the soothsayer does again known for more of those uh duh moments, but a big duh like look, we're gonna see a lot more ai in 25.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: If, yeah, if, if you're sick of ai, now's a good time to just turn off your computers.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And just because you're gonna see we're gonna see a lot more of it in 25 speaking of?
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: have you seen the video where?
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: Where is the robot?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Where they're teaching it how to run downhill?
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: oh god, are these the boston dynamics robots?
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I'm too afraid to watch those videos they gave.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you pure nightmare fuel it's pure.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine?
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine you're?
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know you're, just you go to shoot a piece of trash.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: You missed a trash.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Can you get shot by one of these things for littering?
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: I'm probably going to struggle with using the three seashells.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not ready.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not ready.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Alright, so AI definitely going to be, we're going to see a lot more AI.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: We're going to see a lot more AI in cybersecurity.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: On both sides of the fence, we're going to see the bad guys tool up really tool the hell up in 2025.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Like we're going to see a lot more tooling up in 25.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And we will, I think, see a lot more useful AI in cybersecurity products in 25.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Also, I think a lot of the missed expectations of just the AI hype-driven products will level down and we'll see actual innovation that drives change.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think to your point.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: They're saying that 60% of organizations plan to increase their cybersecurity training budgets in 2025.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is interesting?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 60%.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I'll give a big, bold prediction, because there was another trend this year that will continue next year.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: But I have a bolder prediction.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So we saw a lot of investments in quantum computing and we saw some decent results.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: We saw some decent movement in it and we're probably according to many, we're probably still I don't know five, 10 years out easy from having stable quantum computing.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: But my bold prediction is I think we're actually closer.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I think in 25, we're actually gonna, we're gonna get a think in 25.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: We're actually gonna.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: We're gonna get a lot closer to that goal.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I think we'll shorten the timeline to stable quantum from 10 years to like five years and we'll see that starting next year I think we'll see real what's the expected timeline roughly five to ten years, yeah, yeah, I mean I think it was 2030, right yeah?
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, give or take yeah, quantum computing is expected to break current encryption methods by 2030.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: I'm inclined to agree with that, but I think that we'll actually see.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: But that's a little deeper right?
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually saying that.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I think that that 2030 number I think we're going to see so many advancements in 25 in quantum computing that we're going to be by the end of 25, we're going to revise that statement from actually.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I think we may see this happen by 27 or 28, but not 2030.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I think 25 is going to be a breakthrough year for a lot of quantum computing problems that we will have learned how to solve.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's exciting, right.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: What does that actually mean at a high level?
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Well shit.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: What it means is what one of the things that we we should be doing in 25, that we should do collectively, is we should prepare ourselves, like there should be a lot more quantum preparation or post-quantum preparation for encryption being broken, and so I don't know that that's, unfortunately a trend we'll see in 25.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: My intuition is in betting on it, but it certainly should be a trend in 25.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: More folks should be paying attention to the quantum horizon and making plans for it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: You know a?
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: typical CISO usually draws out a three to five year strategic roadmap for their business.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Going back to your point about AI, maybe you know more about this, but explainable.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Ai helps reduce false positives and threat detection by 50% is a prediction for 2025.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure I understand that one, I'm not 100% familiar with the phrasing explainable AI.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I take that to mean AI that is capable of distilling information, like maybe looking at large amounts of log data and actually giving you a human answer to what an individual did.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently it's a thing, so it's abbreviated XAI is a subfield of machine learning that helps people understand how AI models arrive at their decisions.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's going to be a very useful thing.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Ai, being the black box that it is for many, isn't good right Like not knowing how your new cybersecurity AI tool detected a threat and maybe missed one is very important.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to know, like if it's X, b, y, z, right Up down, left, right, what's this finishing move, right?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: right.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Cameron's analogy right there.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: There it is Up, up down down left, right, left, right, Get over here.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: There it is.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: Are we too old now?
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Finish it.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: That's still relevant.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Right To somebody To somebody, yeah yeah.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: I can imagine kids aren't listening to this, so I mean, maybe they are.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know If you're out there.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Hello to you too.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Are you over 16?
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Do not go on social media.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Avoid it Well, any other predictions.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: We haven't gone over from the soothsayer.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: So what do we?
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: predict.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: We predict that ransomware.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: It's too easy of a prediction.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, it will continue to rise, but I think the real thing that we'll see is the impact AI has on both the problem and the solution.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: I think that's what we'll see is a lot more of that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I actually think we may start getting better at it by the time we get through 25, such that it'll be time to pay attention to new problems, such as getting ready for a post-quantum world.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I think the time is now.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I think that that event horizon is upon us.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I think, generally speaking, I think what we'll see a lot of, too, is in the business side of things.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I think we're going to see a lot of cybersecurity transactional activity, definitely going to see a lot of privacy tech transactional activity.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of organizations solving similar problems or related problems, and we're overdue for a bit of consolidation in those markets.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: So I think we'll see a lot of that in 25 as well.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Hopefully that spurs on more innovation.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: But I think generally, my outlook for 25 is actually somewhat steady.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're going to see anything drastically different.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: I think 25 is going to be a year of significant incremental progress versus big bust out things.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't think think we're gonna see any kind of surprises.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe on the regulatory side, yeah, but maybe not.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's just a can that'll continue to get kicked down the road, like it always kind of is when it comes to a global or the um state.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: The afro federal yeah yeah, like a federal type of well, look, the.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: The new administration is likely to take control of all branches of government, so the opportunity is there to do it.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Whether or not the will is there we'll see, but the I think the opportunity to do it will definitely be on the table.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: So they say that 90, let's see companies that prioritize privacy and security see a 25% increase in customer loyalty.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: It seems realistic.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: They would get me to be loyal.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I could do that.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Businesses that adapt quickly to regulatory changes are 50% more likely to succeed in the long term.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: That's kind of vague, but it's going to be interesting in the world of tech privacy security regulatory.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: I'm excited to see what happens.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Ready to ring it in.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Ready to ring it in.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: This has been a fun episode, If it's our last one of the year.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Thank you everyone for listening to our nonsense and some of our good stuff here.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I think this was a great conversation, Gabe.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: It's always a good conversation with you, Cam.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I can't believe we're going into season six, man Season six.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: We promised some new stuff this year, which we did unveil.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: We did more live shows this year.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: That was new.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: We unveiled a couple things, and so 26 for us, 25 for us also has some more new things coming, so we're going to have a whole bunch of new guests.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: We're probably looking at expanding the Privacy Please team a little bit, which is exciting.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: We've been growing our listener base.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you all for tuning in, and so it's starting to require a little bit more work than Cam and I can do alone.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: So thank you all for your support.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you all very much for tuning in yeah, continue that and tell your friends if you have friends if you don't we'll be them, we'll be, yeah, we'll be your friends.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: We'll be your friends, um, but yeah, uh, reach out if you guys want to see something more, something different, different, or stay silent if we're doing the right thing, I guess.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the support, gabe.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Appreciate you, man.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Appreciate you Absolutely.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Another year into books for privacy, please.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Another year and can't wait to see what happens next year.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: All right, y'all, take it easy, stay sleazy.