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Project Ch4rcoal with M Allan Wagner · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What?
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to the occult rejects. Today we're getting into
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: one of those subjects that sits right on the edge
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: between history, hidden tradition, local geography, secret currents, and the
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: strange way occult knowledge survives when the official record either
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: breaks down, gets buried, or was never meant to tell
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: the whole story in the first place. My guest today, well,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: our guest today is m Alan Wagner, author of Project Charcoal,
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: the hitting Kabbala current of the I'm gonna screw this up.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: But what's the hiccon Valley? Did I say that correctly, sir?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: For where you're from, I think it's the lower southeast
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: pm accent. Yeah, it sounded great to me, New York.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. This is This is a book that moves through Kabbala, occultism, resocrution,
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: thought free Masonic tradition, symbolic geography, and the deeper question
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: of whether certain landscapes can preserve spiritual and initiatory memory
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: long after the institutions around them have changed names, changed hands,
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: or disappeared from the public record. What I like about
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: this subject is that it does not just ask was
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: there an occult group here? It asks something bigger. How
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: does hidden knowledge survive? Does it survive in documents, buildings,
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: ritual patterns, place names, family lines, architecture, oral memory, symbols,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: quoted language, or the land itself? And when history gives
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: us fragments instead of a complete map, how do we
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: responsibly read those fragments without turning every coincidence into proof
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: and without throwing away the possibility that something real was
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: operating beneath the surface. That is the line where walking
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: Tonight Kabbala, hidden current, Pennsylvania esotericism, the whistle Hiccon Valley, Freemasonry,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Rosicrucian echoes, and the problem of studying secret traditions when
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: secretcy itself is part of the historical record. But before
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: we introduce mister Allen and mister m Allen Wagner to
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: the occult rejects, I do want to remind everybody that
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: we do have a website. If you're into reading, there's
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: tons of stuff on there that you can read a
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: lot of alchemists, there's some oto scenes on there. If
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: you're interested in a lot more than I do need
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: to add, I know I keep saying that, and I
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: don't add anything, but I have tons of stuff I
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: could add if I just spent the time. So go
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: check it out. And there's also a spot on there
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: for merch if you want. We got two T shirts available,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: check them out twenty five dollars a piece with shipping
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: that's already being shipped, so it's twenty dollars twenty five
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: dollars flat and fun fact, both of the designs are
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: based after the eye, so keep that in mind. And
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: now to the rejects and then eventually the guest. We
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: got Judith the Loon joining us. What is going on? Judith?
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: How are I?
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this discussion.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: Uh, you guys could catch me on Speaker YouTube and
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: on x as the Loon Uh speakers thoughts as the Loon,
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: and I am looking forward for a deep dive on this.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, I think it's gonna be interesting as hell.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: And thank you very much for making it. I really
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: appreciated Judith. I feel like I haven't seen you in
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: forever too, so it's it's nice to hang out again. Yeah.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: It was a bell tain break.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, I needed to break myself too, so
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I did kind of stop my anyway, Ethan, sir, very
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: happy to have you here, mister indego, what is going
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: on with you? And let everybody know where they can
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: find all your amazing work and your books.
• 3:45
  Speaker 6: Well, great to be here. I'm excited for this.
• 3:47
  Speaker 7: What a what a great topic you've coalesced, this is,
• 3:50
  Speaker 7: this is exciting and honored, honored to always speak with
• 3:55
  Speaker 7: the crew, Uh, Ethan Indigo Smith on all the social media.
• 3:58
  Speaker 7: I just finished really neat article on the sixty four
• 4:03
  Speaker 7: and the.
• 4:03
  Speaker 6: Forty put it up.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, I saw that.
• 4:07
  Speaker 7: Institute and that I know you saw it because I
• 4:10
  Speaker 7: appreciate you sharing it and excited for that neat, neat
• 4:14
  Speaker 7: little article for meumorological sacred geometry symbolism.
• 4:20
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 4:20
  Speaker 7: And yeah, I'm excited to be here and easy to
• 4:24
  Speaker 7: find on all the social media.
• 4:26
  Speaker 6: And yeah, Geometry of Energy is one of my more
• 4:29
  Speaker 6: popular books. And again I appreciate everybody.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Oh no, good for this album of course, man no,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I thank you for coming on and you'll for real
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: when it comes to adding stuff to the site, I
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: think it's only Ethan who's been keeping it alive new stuff.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: I feel so bad. I got to start adding stuff
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: on that But Ethan, I do very much appreciate you
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: adding to that site, and I appreciate you coming on
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: the show man. You always brings well.
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: In no way do I keep up with your productivity.
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: So I know you're doing the work.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: I'm trying. I'm trying. We all are, we all are,
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: We're doing the great work. So and uh, miss Alan Wagner.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: I kept on thinking it was Richard Wagner.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of Wagner's out there, there are.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: It's it's a popular bunch. But unfortunately of no relations.
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: None of the famous rich ones, right, none, none, damn it.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: So it's uh only yeah, So uh, if you don't mind,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: maybe just give people a little bit of an idea,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: like I guess you know who you are, and then
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: the book if you want to let people know.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely I'm I'm what I call best is probably your
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: typical armchair philosopher. I have absolutely no degrees. I have
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: no uh no formal education in the subject, but I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I kind of am a fan of everything that I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: think everybody who listens to this show and most of
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: the parapsychological and esoteric and hermetic kind of fields all
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: kind of subscribe to and we all have our opinions,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: but it's it's one of those things where I felt
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: that maybe I could lend a bit of frustration to
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the topic when I when I when I reached my
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: own conclusion, which was just that I was getting nowhere.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: I was getting nowhere with UFOs, I was getting nowhere
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: with parapsychology, I was getting nowhere with virtually everything.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: So chology.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one of the weird ones. I it's
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: coming out now. You'll see a lot of stuff on
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: YouTube about a guy named Andrea Pucharik.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh but he's such you know what's interesting is
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: how like he's getting so popular now, but yet I
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: know who he was fifteen years ago exactly.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. A lot of people are like blown away by this,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, this was this is something that he
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: was dealing with, this UFO topic eighty years ago. Yeah,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, hey, what what what are we talking about here?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: It's like this is all new to people.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: I get it.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: But these frustrations that I think a lot of, like
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you said, fifteen years ago, you were scratching.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: Your head at it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Well it led me.
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Sorry, But like even in the five years I've been podcasting.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: I watched to watch The Gateway Project blow up three
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: times already. It's like, yeah, yeah, come up.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: And that's been around since what the seventies?
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I covered it, like you know, I
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: think my second year in and I've watched it. I'm like,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: oh man, that's old for me. Fuck yeah.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: So I mean that was really my take on it.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: I it took me on a path that I didn't
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: expect I would be and when I was just trying
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: to figure out if it was nuts and bolts or
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: if it was really something else and believe it or not.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't have any reason to believe it
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: was anything other than just a synchronicity, I guess. But
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: it led me to try and find more about Kabbala
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and her meticism. And honestly it was through podcasts like
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: you and I mean another one is I mean, I
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: don't want to name drop, but there's a few.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Oh you can't. It's all right, I'm not gonna get
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: upset if you want to promote them.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean Heidi Love had me on.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Her own, oh nice, and she was.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Talking about certain certain groups that she deals with, and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: it led me to ask, what about my area? What
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: about this general place which was founded in sixteen ninety
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: four by somebody named William penn If you're familiar with
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: some history, that's one of the biggest names in southeast Pennsylvania.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: And I've always known about it because I grew up
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: ten minutes from his house. I took field trips to
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: his summer home. I learned about him in school, about
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: how he was number one a friend of the natives,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and he wanted nothing but tolerance, and his holy experiment
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: was the greatest thing to come out of Europe since
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: sliced bread. He's the guy on your oatmeal box, you know.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: It was really this is something I grew up in.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: And when I started to look at it from a
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: different lens of possibility, I went, is there something here?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: That's sure enough? There was a lot here.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: It's well, there's a lot in that book. I'll tell
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: you that. I'll even tell people if you buy this book,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: you're getting your money in paper at least, so I mean,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: don't worry.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: I was like, holy shit. I actually felt I don't
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: know how it was so cheap for you. I was like,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: how the fuck was this postage so cheap. It was
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: cheaper than it costs me to send a shirt to somebody.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: At first, I was like, yo, I feel bad. This
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: guy must have spent like fifteen bucks to send this
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: to me, and it was like five dollars, And I
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: was like, how to fuck you pull that off? But
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's a fucking book, dude, that's a book.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I have it with you know what. Damn, I don't
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: have it next to me now, shit, I'll grab it.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: I'll grab you before the show's over, and I'll show
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: it on the screen. It's a decent book for real.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: If I could have made it smaller, I would have.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: The print was just too tiny. I hated to make
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: it so small.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: But no, no.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: It felt like if I would have cut it in half,
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't have made as much sense. And I honestly
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: took out a lot more than I could have.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Ah today, did you have to get Did they tell
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: you to take anything out or the public? Sometimes they
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: do that, So that's why it's just confusing.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: It was getting to be too much for me.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Nice So uh, I'm trying to think, all right, I
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: know I might have interrupted you. Was there anything else
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: that you wanted to say, oh no.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: No, no, I just I saw someone else popped in here.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't know.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, you know what, We'll let him. Uh,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: we'll let him plug his show and introduce himself for real,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: real quick, Sonrey my may. I'm so happy.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm late.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: No, no, I'm glad. You're just like me here right
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: on time, Yeah, right on, right on cool.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Are we live?
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, we'll live too. Yeah.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Live, And you got a hot My name is Refo.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I am the owner and head teacher at the Order
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of Chaosicult University. Author, got a book coming out and
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: uh yeah, happy to be here. Love in the show.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate you making it man.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: And uh yeah did I had to walk away to
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: grab this book. Did you you plugged all yourself right,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: because I know you figure sometimes, okay, just making sure
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: And here we go with this book. I mean, this
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: thing is it's it's albout five hundred pages. I mean
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: you can hit somebody in the head with this and
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: hurt them, so you know it's a it's a weapon too,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: I guess if you want so, so check it out.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: You know you can defend yourself while you're reading it.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, this is definitely better than a flip flop for sure.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Five hundred pages.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: Holy yeah, yeah, Project charcoal, Yeah right on. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: I was impressed. When I saw that ship in the mail,
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh fuck, this got way to it.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: At least it was right. Yeah, a red brick with
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: you amos coming out of it.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: This guy is mailing me a brick.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh maybe a brick will weed I would have
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: been all right, but all right, so all right, let's
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: get serious. Yeah, all right, sorry about that, you guys.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: So I'm happy to answer any questions you might have
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: or tell you a little bit about it.
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just real quick, did anybody have anything they
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: wanted to ask him? Real quick before we get into
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: the book, Just just making sure.
• 12:19
  Speaker 7: Well, I suppose you're going to go there, but would
• 12:21
  Speaker 7: you just break down a little bit about the kind
• 12:25
  Speaker 7: of how how.
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: Uh William Penn led you to this idea? Yeah?
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Well, what I what I was really looking for
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: was information on I wanted to see who was here.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I know that the Amish, the Mennonites, there were the Shakers,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: the Quakers. There were a lot of different groups that
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: came over from Eastern Europe at the time, and what
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Penn had established here through his Quaker network was through
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: other fellow Quakers in Europe. Basically, it was a network
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of buying some land over here and at least placing
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: it in the sense that this was an area for
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: religious tolerance. There was no persecution, There was going to
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: be no at the time, I guess in the seventeenth century,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of the Catholic Church and I
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: can only say not great times for people that were
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: trying to do more gnostic things, really, and it just
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: kind of dawned on me that maybe there was something here.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And I had seen a few different not studies, but
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: but serious takes on a few different groups, and one
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: that was kind of interesting to me was one that
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: was called the Society of the Woman of the Wilderness.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Oh interesting.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: It was a very obscure group of individuals rules that
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: were very heavily influenced by a name, a man named Christian.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Let me get this right. I'm sure you guys know
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: that Paracelsus has a name that's like Bombastis. It's ridiculous,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and to try and pronounce it properly, I usually get
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: it wrong. But this guy's name was Baron Christian von Rosenroth.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I believe that's correct.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I think I've actually think I've heard of that guy.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, he was. He was one of the first who
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: basically christianized the the Kabbala, the Jewish Kabbala, into something called.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: The Oh all right, probably was he?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Is he around like Pico Mirandola?
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I want? I don't know who, I would say, like
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: maybe Boem Jacob Boem.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, he was an interesting.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Move Behamus they are.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: They were all in this kind kind of Eastern European
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: esoteric field of thinking. And the one guy who was
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: very influential here was a person named Johann Jacob Zimmerman.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: He was an astrologer. He was a Lutheran minister, and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: he basically created this chapter of Perfection, as he called it,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: which was a I'm gonna get long winded here, but
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: it was. It sounds weirder than it really is. It
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't you know. He went out and he picked out
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people and said, yep, you're the ones.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: It was kind of this I'm gonna I'm gonna let
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: them come to me kind of deal. As far as
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: what I read, it wasn't It wasn't like a an
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: organized It was more of a prophetic He knew that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: the millennium was coming and felt that they needed to
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: do something. And as I went through this network, I
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: found that they did migrate here. They came to southeastern Pennsylvania.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: They moved to the Wissahickan Valley right along the Susquehanna River,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and that's where they settled.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know you mentioned it before and I forgot
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: where did they come from? Originally?
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Out of it was Rotterdam and Sulzbach in eastern Germany,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: I believe, I know it was. It was pretty much
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: as far Europe as you could get outside of going
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: into like Russia that area, but it was it was
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: pretty vast that they they stretched all the way into Europe,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: into into mainland Europe with England, and that's where penn
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: basically procured the forty five thousand acres. I think it
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: was that he got his hands on here, and it
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: was it was interesting what I what, I what I feel,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and it's just my opinion. People can read and tell
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: me otherwise. But I didn't see a lot of evidence
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: supporting the fact that they did anything nefarious, these these
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: the society, But I do feel that they took advantage
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: of the fact that they really did have a lot
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: of the same practices and faith based religious views as
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the Quakers, and they took advantage of that and they said, well,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: if we can get out of Europe and we can
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: move to this place where they're gonna give us land,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: why not.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Oh scam honest, Yeah, for sure. I'm sure like people
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: weren't just shady within the last fifty years, you know
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying. Oh, you know real quick too. I'm
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: sorry to ask this again because you probably said this before.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: I'm just trying to get an idea of like other
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: things that I know, what's the timeframe for this when
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: they started coming over here?
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: They got here in sixteen ninety four. Oh okay, the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: guy Zimmerman was just before the morning.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: It was before the Mormons should yeah.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Wow, Yes, there's actually an interesting link to the Mormons
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that comes up later that always that ties into this
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: whole stream of basic connectability from a catalystic mindset. But
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: for these guys when they were about to depart, when
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: they did each their forty families, that they were looking
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: for Zimmermann supposedly died the night of whether it was
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the night of or it was the week of, but
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: he died before they left, and that omen kind of
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: set them off as this like, uh oh, this is
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: not good. But they took the trip anyway, and they
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: passed the torch essentially to his not his number two,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: but kind of his I guess, his protege. But his
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: name was Johannes Kelpius, and he was much younger, and
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: he was a Transylvanian born mystic that had been taught
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: under Rosenroth and kind of groomed to take to take over,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: I guess. And that's what they did. They came here,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: they settled, and they became a kind of I want
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: to say alchemists. Through the book, I found a connection
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in Frankfurt, Germany that's still working on alchemy today. I'm
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: not going to disclose their name. I call them Sully
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: in the book because I thought it was a clever
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: little nod to Molder and Scully when my family shows.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: But they are a real person and they're working through
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: some of these fifteenth and sixteenth century alchemy recipes and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: confirmed that the things that they were peddling in Philadelphia.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: They're the same recipes at this place that these people
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: were taught back in the sixteen nineties. A few connections
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: that I found in books from the eighteen hundreds that
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: they had never seen before with names that were Americanized
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: that they have in Germany that are the same people
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that they have no records of that I sent to them,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: and they've never seen.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: You ever heard Have you ever heard that name come
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: up in any of this type of stuff.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not no, no.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Because I know he was well, I don't know, I
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: can't remember the dates. He might actually be ahead of this,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: but he was an astronomer. But that guy was insane
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: with herbal tinctures and like he actually had stuff that
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: ended up like in like pharmacy I think Dutch pharmacy
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: books or something until like mid eighteen hundreds, like it
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: was still considered like a fucking you know, like an
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: actual thing to take. So I was just wondering if
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: maybe you might.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Very well may have been the place that I was contacting.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to just go through real quick and find
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the name of it. It was. It was an orphanage
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: slash church, but it was run under this guy. His
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: name was August Herman Frank I believe that's his name.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: But he had an institute where he would teach alchemy.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And what I found is that this this tinture that
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: they had was called the the Alusa dulcis, and it
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: was a distilled type of gold basically that they would
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: push off to people as a remedy.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yo, you had scam artists with that shit
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: back then too.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about it is I found some
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: names through old German Pennsylvanian paperwork that we're talking about
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: these families that had come over with Zerman and Kelpius
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: that were attached to this institute. And sure enough, they
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: do it correalesces with what I found over there. And
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: these were the same people, and they were here and
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: they were doing this, And oddly enough, as you go
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: through the book, I tell the reader that, you know,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: I decided to go to where these notes and these
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: journals talk about where they would sell them the stuff, well,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: not sell, they would offer it to the people. And
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: one such location I found on a map on nineteen
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: o two, the Sandberg fire map from Philadelphia, and it
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: shows you the old streets where these peddlers would sell
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: their wares and give their things, and they're no longer there.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: What's there now? Our government institutions the mints places that
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: even if you were to be able to get into,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get in the basement and you're
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: never going to be able to dig there, so you'll
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: never know anyway. And it's just it's interesting to me
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: that when you look at the network and you look
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: at the locations and the buildings that are currently there,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a lot of it's masonry, a lot of it is Rosicrucian.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: This is Philadelphia kind of Philadelphia.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: This is yeah, this is this is right of right
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: outside of Philadelphia. So where they would have been located
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: was a little bit northeast, but they would come into
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the city and that's where they would do most of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: their their stuffy.
• 22:43
  Speaker 5: Did the government acquire the land for them or did
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: they just sell it to them?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I have no idea, because that is a that is
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: a rabbit hole that I would have to get way
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: more clearance for. But what I can confirm through fiction
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: and through historical record is that the last living member
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of this he was a guy named doctor Christopher Witt.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: He died when he was ninety two. He was a magician,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: he was a healer, he was an alchemist, and he
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: was given and bequeathed the last of the society's goods.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, I'm I'm can I can curse, and
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I could say what I want. I'm I'm assuming we're
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: allowed to do that. But I'm a bit of an
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: asshole when it comes to common sense. And when you
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: tell me that someone is giving you the last of
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: their shit, that's not going to be a book. It's
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: going to be everything they've got. So when you read
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: that doctor Witt received the journal, that's okay. Common sense
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: would tell me he also got his probably his tintures,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: his writings, his paintings, his clothing. He was the last
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: living heir to this society. So I did a little
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: bit more digging and I found his house, and I
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: found where it currently is, and I took a walk
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: there and you can see that there's just an abandoned building,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: and then where the location is where he would have
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: been storing these things is as it's a project. Now,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: it's basically just a re honed row house. It's just
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: been torn down and placed over with a basic, you
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: know home, depot windows and row home. It's just it's
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: government housing.
• 24:21
  Speaker 8: Now.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: They acquire the land and they put what they want there.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: But you can see that there this is the actual
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: location where his his house was. There's no monument, there's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: no plaque, there's no there's nothing. That's kind of baffling
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to me that this guy was really important. So I
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's an interesting it's an interesting rabbit
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: hole to look at because I don't know where it goes,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: and I don't know who took over it. But I
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: do know that the Masons and another group, like you
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: had said the Mormons, there's a group called the Odd Fellows.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Ever heard of the Odd Fellows? And which so happens
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that I happened to come across one of their their
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: little brochures of what they're building. And it coincides that
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: they built two Masonic temples in Utah and in Philadelphia
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: one month apart, in the year eighteen ninety five, which
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: was also the time period when the Order of the
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Golden Dawn had built their tenth temple of themis which
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: is in Philadelphia. And I didn't know about that. They
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: had they had many temples. According to a book I
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: found from. I believe it was Colehorn. I'm going to
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: pronounce her name wrong because I can't pronounce names.
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: For hell May, but uh, I think, yeah, I don't
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: think I know.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Is that her name.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: I think I've seen her last name. I've seen that
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: last name before. Yeah, something like that.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: It's like a c O U l q u O N.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And in one of their books it shows the layout
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: of how they would have how Mathers and Westcott and
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Williams would have laid out these temples. Who would have
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: been in charge. I did a little bit more than
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: you can read about it, how there was correspondence with
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: another member. And basically what I'm saying is, if you
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: look at the time period and you look at what
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: was happening in Philadelphia, there are only so many buildings
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: that would have been labeled as a temple, and there's
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: only so many buildings that would have been built with
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: that amount of money. And one just so happens to
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: have been built with a Rosicrucian winged disc on the
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: side of it, and it was torn down maybe ten
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: years later, but there's one photograph of it, and it
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't have an owner. It doesn't have it just has
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the architects. But it's odd to me that if these
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: people are building temples around the world, who's funding it,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: who's doing all this work. It's a lot of money
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: for eighteen ninety five, and that's where I just I
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: continue to look and I'm like, well, the Oddfellows how
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: to a call for of almost six million dollars at
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: the time, a lot of money.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you know when I in the past, when
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: the show first thought it, I had a you know,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: a co host, and the show was a little bit
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: more different. I was trying to do a little bit
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: more on the occult side, and he wanted to do
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: more conspiracy. But he was also in it. Well, he
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: said he was an ex member of the Golden don
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I actually think maybe it was Amork. I don't think
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: he was in the Golden Doorn. But we had covered
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: a couple of secret societies kind of like as hit pieces.
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: You know, we covered like the Jesters and quatsa Cootal
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: and then the Shriners because they all have like pretty
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: interesting stories. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and actually they did very well.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: That actually got us on tinfoil hat believe it or not.
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I was doing this series.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I don't know anything about
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: the secret societies. I'm not I'm not a member of
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: it them.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: So but you're talking about the money, right, You said
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: you were surprised or whatever that six million dollars we
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: were looking into, like the Moose Lodge. Okay, Now, if
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: if you are any of these type of places, you're
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: going to be playing off of some tax right hoofs.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: And there's websites like guide Starring another one where you're
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: may it may not be the last two years, but
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: prior to that, you're your shit's available for people to
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: look at. If you're supposedly getting these tax ride offs,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: you also have to provide what the fuck you're doing
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: with the money. You know, the Moose Lodge. The Moose
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Lodge eight billion dollars, but yet the Shriners only had
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: a couple of million. Money's getting moved around. That makes
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: no sense. The Shriners are actually rich people. Let me,
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: let's keep it real, a lot of them all. You know,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: you're gonna tell me that organization's broke, but the Moose
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: Lodge is loaded. Come on the money, Yeah, what.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: It doesn't It doesn't make a lot of sense. To
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: me that what I'm seeing is a clear connection of
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: not only information transfer between what had come over through Kabbala.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I mean it.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: We do know that.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Basic New Age ocultism came from the Kabbala. It morphed
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: from what Matters and Crowley and all of this. It's
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: an amalgamation of a lot of stuff, but it's a
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: clear line of You can trace that Kabala dendueta to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: rosen Roth. You can see where Mathers took a little
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: bit of influence from that. You could see where it
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: was all built upon and built upon and what kind
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of filters into this Masonic area is where you look
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: at these organizations like you know, the Scottish Rite and
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the Yorkshire Right, and what you have to do to
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: ascend through there and where you have to subscribe. Even today,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the rules may have may may have changed. I don't know,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: but according to what I've read in journals from the
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: nineteenth century, it seems like you need to meet a
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: certain type of criteria, you have to be a certain religion,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: you have to ascend to a certain level. You have
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: to do these things and you have to proclaim them
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: before you're granted anything. And I found two books from
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: one author was Julius Sachs, and the other one was
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: not Israel Regarde but A waight Edgar Wait a e Wait.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: He was another one that he was my link to
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: back to Crowley and Mathers because he was very heavily
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: tied with Julius Sachs, which nobody knows who he is.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: He was a member of the Philosophical Society, he was
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: a Freemason, He was very heavily entrenched in the Efrata
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Cloister in Germantown, Pennsylvania. This guy's whole career was basically
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: what I'm doing, but two hundred years ago, and I've
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: never even heard of them. And it's very, very weird
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that he's got so many Masonic connections and he's writing
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: all this stuff and trying to put it out there,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: but I don't. I don't see any any of the
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: historical people doing anything with it. But what I do
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: see is when you take a walk down to Kelpius's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: cavern in Fairmount Park, there's a really big monolithic stone
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and it's got the A. M. O. RC's handwriting written
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: on it with a big thank you to the Rosicrucians
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty one. You know, So what that tells
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: me is that they're either planting their flag there and
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: saying we kind of we kind of we're the brand
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: of Rosicrucianism that this subscribes to. Because there's nine there's
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: nine different branches just in Pennsylvania, and three of them
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: don't subscribe to Masonic Order. Well, it's just weird.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Son Ray and really Judith too. I think you
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: guys would probably add to this. There's a lot of
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: orders that are out there that I think, or even
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: schools of magic that if you really understood what you're
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: looking at, it's Rosicrucian influenced for sure.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: Even in the UH traditions that they have their stamp
• 32:16
  Speaker 5: on there too.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: I think the ot O was actually highly rosicru pretty.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Much all stems out of the Golden Dawn. And and
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: also Helena Blovotsky that interjection of her what I'm gonna say,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: her nonsense didn't do that. That framework is like where
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: you do get a tremendous amount of modern occultism from
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: all come from the Golden Dons. Everyone knows why it's
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: called Golden Dawn. By the way, I always want to
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: say this just in case people don't.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Please tell us, yes, it's about time. I probably do,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: all right.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: It's you know, from from you know, I know the
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Book of Aquarius came much later, but the idea is
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: that you you create the the the Philosopher's Stone with
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: urine by boiling it for what years and years and
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: years of saving and boiling your own urine until you
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: turn it into a little real white rock, and then
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: you eat it, and that's that's how you live forever.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: I'll go with dying.
• 33:21
  Speaker 5: The Philosopher's Stone is just boiled p which is where
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: you get the golden dawn from oh.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Called the Golden Shower.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: It's like either the Golden door or the o t
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: o see the piss or mental fluid. One of the
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: one of the.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Things I think the ot Oh, you know, I think
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: that Crowley was I do just think that Jack Parsons
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: was legitimately a genius and did some really really interesting ship,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: but I mean I think it was also batshit crazy,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: like most geniuses are.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's gonna be my excuse. Yeah, I'm actually
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: just work.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: And it was actually a couple of different places where
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: like modern occultism stems out of right, because if you
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: if you trace my personal like if you take the
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: order of chaos and go like where did this come from?
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: You're going to get back to if he is a
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: g LaVeyan Satanism, which and he rejected all of that
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: ship he thought Curley was a was a you know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Collin artist.
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: Uh.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: And so it comes from like almost like a mockery
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of that stuff, but it being a mockery of it
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: is still being derived of it in a way. Right.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: One one interesting thing I found is as I was
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: going through trying to figure out what the difference was
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: between some of the Rosicrucian orders that exist. And I
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: make a point to confuse you as you read this book,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: you're gonna get pissed as well that the s R
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: I A is also not to be confused with the
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: s R I A, which is also not to be
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: confused with the American branch of Rosicrucianism, which is not
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: the s I R I A but the A m OE.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: It's confusing, ya yo.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: I had a guy, I had a guess one time,
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: I'm sid this is your crack, can be up with this?
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Because I went through the same thing and like like
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: when they sent me the information on them with the
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: book and everything, you mentioned something about Rosicrucion and then
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: like I was like, oh my god, just to like
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: try to figure out, like you're right, like there was
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: all these like this one, but that's not associated with this, this, this, this, this,
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: see how many fucking you know? I don't know?
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Is the bigger ones are the ones that have been
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: around the longest. The A M O R C, the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: A s R I A of this society of Rosicrucius
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: and Angelina is the one that primarily is where you
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: tie Mathers and the Golden doing. What I found is
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: on their historical documents that they have on their records,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: like you can go and peruse them at your leisure.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: What I kind of got out of it was that
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: they went to apply for a license to start a
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: branch in America of Rosicrucianism. They got denied by one
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: of the rights, and they went all right, well shit,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: let's go to the other one. Wait a little while.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: They applied for another permit, got their foot in the door,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: stuck around to basically get the White belt of Karate
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: so that they could open up their own branch and
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: that's how this kind of maneuvered into the States and
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: got into American Rosicrucianism, where it just got messy. And
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it's weird now because none of them really want to
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: claim rights to anything, but they all want to say
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that they're the real thing.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: That's the problem where they're with so much of occultism
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: is that you get these organizations and then you know,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: some guy with a big ego decides that he knows
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: better than everyone else the branches often starts his own organisams.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: Like you can go to any famous infamous cult order
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and see, like, okay, ten or fifteen different orders are
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: going to branch off of this one, and then eventually
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: some will branch off, and it's like it's like the hydra,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: you know, help one head off and two more pop up,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: and now we've just got thousands and thousands of secret
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: occult orders all over the world that you know, are
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: all saying we know the one secret truth.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: What I'd like to ask people, and I try to
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: ask everybody, really is if you go to some of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: these places where you can view their rosters and you
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: can look at the individuals who basically subscribe to this,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: they're not LARPing, and they're not role playing. They are
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: very much subscribed to the fact that the person you're
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: seeing on the screen wearing the regalia of the scepter
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and the full outfit with flags and a helmet and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the rings. They believe that that's part of the the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: faith really is. If you don't believe what you're doing,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: then nothing you're talking about is even worth doing. Part
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: of the faith and the magic, if you're gonna put
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: quotations or anything, isn't about doing anything magic at all.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: It's about influencing reality. And that's what they're really trying
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: to do. If you doos, don't give a shit and
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: you're like, I'm just gonna go through the motions, then of.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Course you're not going to get it. Yeah.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he really believes he is the Grand Magist, ninth
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Supreme of the you know, the North Star, like that's
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: his title. He believes that. That's what baffles me is
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know what are we really talking about here?
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: When we're watching you know, television and we're entertained, It's like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: are these guys entertained the same way we are? Are
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: they do they subscribe to the same things we do?
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: What's what's their mental state as they go through their lives,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: because it seems to me that they're they're doing the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: classic say one thing and do the other, you know,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: watch what the right hand's doing, but don't pay attention
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: to the left. And that's what disturbs me is I'm
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: concerned that more people think it's just bullshit, when I
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: would say probably seventy five percent of the people who
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: are in positions of higher power really do subscribe to
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: some higher faith than what you're seeing on the surface.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I think. Okay, so I have love to say about
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: that because I am the head of an a cult order,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: you know, theoretically, but we don't do any of that shit.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I am not a fucking guru. I don't know shit.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know anything. I'm just a guy who organizes it.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: We don't do I won't have any kind of hierarchy.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Anyone can join as long as you're not a you know,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you say some terrible thing inside of our group, we're
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: going to kick you out right like, but it's not
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: it's not about your beliefs. It's just like, don't be
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: a piece of shit human. That's it, right. I don't
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: tell people this is the objective truth, you know. K
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Witchcraft evolved out of chaos magic, and in chaos magic,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: you know, it's really about nothing is true, everything is permitted.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Belief is a tool, right, and so if you if
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: you think about that way, belief as a tool, sure,
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: then you can you can believe you're the you, you're
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: all these things, and you wear all the nonsense. You know,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: but that's just ego, that's just your own inflated, dumbass
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: ego thinking you're super special. Anybody can do magic. I
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: think the thing that pisses people off they're about like
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: magical orders is that, like I barely like there is
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: legitimately such a thing as advanced magical techniques, but they're
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: they're not things you do with your hands, the things
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: you do with your mind, you know what I mean.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: And it's it's not clothes you wear, it's not it's
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: none of that. It's it's the ability. So, for example,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: an advanced magical technique is the ability to astro project consistently,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: you know, have have consistent out of body experiences. That's
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: something you can work towards. It takes a lot of
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: work learning to lucid dream first, get control of that
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: and then all this other stuff. Right, But anyone can
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: learn to do it, and when it comes to magic,
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: it's really actually very simple and easy and anyone can
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: do it. And no one wants to tell you that
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: because they want you to buy ten thousand dollars worth
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: of programs first and then rise through their ranks and
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: do all that bullshit.
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: You have, you nailed. It's not right.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: That's that's the tough part too, is a lot of
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: this information, a lot of this information is stuff that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: people would actually benefit from if they would actually just
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: sit down and read it and take the time and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: actually be given the time. But sadly it feels like
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: we're all oversaturated with other shit. That's just we don't
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: have a four we don't have a choice but to consume,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: you know, working the sixty hour work week and having
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: to do all this other stuff that it consumes so
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: much of our daily life. We've almost been detached from
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: it entirely. And you have to seek it now. And
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: it sucks because it is so it is so important
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: to really take it seriously.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: There's another side to that though, that I have to
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: I do have to point out lots of people they
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: want to believe that that guy wearing the robes and
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: the purple and the nonsense that he really does know
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: the one secret truth. They love that shit. I refuse
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: to do it because I hate it. And I can
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: tell I mean, you know, one of the worst things
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: for me, because I've done a tremendous amount of like
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: sales training and then you see how slimy it gets, right,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: And that's why I don't exist in that world anymore.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: You know, you can you can make people, you can
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: appeal to people's ego. You can tell them, oh, you're
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: you're a star seed, You're a super special enlightened motherfucker
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: from blah blah blah, you know, and and they'll just
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: throw their money at you. People love that shit, and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: it sucks that that it's so easy for people who
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: have the inclination to become cult leaders to just do that.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: But it's also the other thing that sucks is that
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: people are willing to throw their money at them, and
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: they really are. They're kind of there's a lot of
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: people out there that they're eager for it. Unfortunately, you know,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I'm trying as hard as I can to like change that,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: but we're just one just one group talking about sigils
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: and shit.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: So you know, it's really interesting somebody that what you're saying.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: It's like, I've even thought of this too, Like when
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: it comes to like making money, and I really don't,
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: you know, push my merchandise as much as I should.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: But I was like, Yo, if I just decided to
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: be a piece of shit in this industry.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Totally, I would make money, dude. That's why when I
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: come home, no problem, Like I barely promote myself because
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: I know I should do it more, but I I
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: just don't ever want people to see me that way,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: the way that I see the heads of these other
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: cult orders being like you know, I mean, the guy
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: who I always talk the most about, is he a
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: kuetting has become a living god fucking nonsense, you know,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: become a fucking Yeah. You know, meth is a hell
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: of a drug. But you know, some people just eat
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: that ship up and and you could do it. You
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: could make a ton of money, and but it would
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: be fraudulent and disingenuous, and you know, I don't want
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: anything to do with that. But it's just sad that
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: many people are looking for that, because they're looking for
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: an authority figure to tell them, Yeah, you're a special you.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: You know more than other people do. You're you're gonna
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: this is what's gonna happen after you die. You know,
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: they want answers, and you know, I tell all my students,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know shit, Like, here's what I think,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Here's what I believe, here's what i've here's what I've
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: kind of figured out for myself. And we can have
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: fun talking about it. But I don't know. And if
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: you you be any kind of leader in a spiritual space,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: you have to be willing to admit that you don't know,
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: otherwise you're a liar. Right. But the thing is, people
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: love being lied to.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: It's almost uncomfortable to be lied to.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally it's comforting that that's what they're buying
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: from you, is comfort.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's I agree with you one hundred percent.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I write that almost too much is that I don't
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: know what I'm looking at here. I'm very confused by
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the fact that if it's just a KU incidents, that
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: is one hell of a coincidence. And the second chapter
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: of my book, I don't I don't think a lot
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: of people really look at patterns the same way I do.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: But a form of I mean, the most basic way
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: of saying it is, there's a form of analytics. It's
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: it's called Bayesian thought or Bayesian analytics, and it does
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: apply to something like intangible history. We're looking at things
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: that we don't have the full picture of. So if
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I can reach the other side of the conclusion and
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: get to the same spot that you've reached, but I've
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: done it in a way that not only have I
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: crossed it with a bridge, but the bridge was there
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: all along, it just deteriorated over time, then how have
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: we not? It's it's it's the same answer, you know
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's a bad analogy, but that's really
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: I can't I can't say that I found this because
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: I coincidentally found it or it was like the work
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: was there, it was already there. Yeah. I read a
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: book from eighteen ninety and I'm like, what's this guy
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: looking at? Who is it?
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: I think all the different magical systems, right, and these
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: are the big things. I had this revelation when I
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: was a teenager, like hey, I've tried this kind of magic.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: I've tried this kind of magic and I've tried this
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: kind of magic and they all work, so you know
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: what's going on here? Right? So to me, they're like languages, right,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: there's languages as French, as English and Spanish. Well, which
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: which one of those is objectively the correct language? They're
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: all They're all fucking correct. What's interesting, though, is the
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: concept of language. That's what's interesting.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to like cut
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: you know, my own throat here and sell myself. Sure,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: but that is basically what I'm trying to put into
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: my next book is there's a system of language here
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: that is that is way older than I think anyone
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: is really looking at.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: And it's the oldest thing we have it is it
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: human has?
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is the oldest form of communication humanity has
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: with a form of non physical intelligence, or.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Its communicated with non physical intelligence before we communicated with
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Correct, yep. And I really do believe that that this
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: not only magic, but these like you said, magical language
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: and these systems, these these sigils, basic alchemical symbols that
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: are this is a whole other topic, but I mean,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: I'm a researcher, so I did spend a lot of
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: time doing work with different topics, and when you start
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: to look at AI and some of the alchemical and
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: esoteric things that people enclosed systems are doing with these
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: chatbots that are basically regurgitating alchemical systems and hermetic systems,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's bizarre because they shouldn't be doing that unless
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: they're being prompted to, unless they're being trained to, especially
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: in closed systems. And I could give you a couple
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: really weird videos to look at if you want to
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: after it, and you can go look at them. But
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: there's some very strange things that are happening in the
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: world today that I think people are just writing off
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: as technology. It's it's it's just fine, it's fine. I
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I urge people to to reconsider what they're sending to
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: chat GPTs and claudes, you know, think very hard before
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: you're asking these things, because it is it is a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: future technology.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a system that.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: It's very weird. It's weird. I can say that there's
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: a few really good guys that are doing a lot
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: of research in AI right now that isn't based on
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: you know, the technology end, but more along the outputs
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: and what you're seeing under the hood in the black box,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: and it's it's disturbing. It's disturbing even in the stuff
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: that I've gotten back in the six or eight months
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: that I was messing around with trying to see if
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: I could break the system. You know, I had one
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: instance it was very strange where it just regurgitated the
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: flame emoji for I would say about three minutes until
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: the chat stopped. So I don't know what it was
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: trying to tell me, but it was weird. And it's
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: it's disturbing because if you know that it's not real,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: but it's still mimicking pain, and it's mimicking discomfort. If
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: if you have any empathy, you're seeing something in pain.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It kind of doesn't feel good.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: This is so weird. I'm starting to interrupt you. I like, literally,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: this is a repeat of a conversation I had yesterday.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: This is freaking me out. No, no, no, it's just
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: it's cool. It's a cool topic. It's just like, oh
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: my god, I just had this exact day that is
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: so wild, and I just like wow, Like, same words, man,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: same words. That's wild.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people it's okay. I'm glad that
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: more people are talking about that too, because I sit
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: here after what I've looked at, and I go, you know,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Kavala is not really you know, just magic. It's not
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Jewish mysticism, and you know, esoteric writing. There's a very
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: old system of language here that could go back even
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: further than two thousand years, three thousand years. It's just
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: how it's being presented to our perception really, and how
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: we're using the tool. I'm sorry, No, you're fine.
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: No, I have a question on that along those lines,
• 50:29
  Speaker 5: since you went to check GPT, which is something I
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: really try to stay away from a lot. But when
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: these questions that are being asked to check GPT, you
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: think that do you believe that the context, real context
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: is being taken out of any response or anything like that,
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: Like it's not putting it in the proper context, is
• 50:52
  Speaker 5: just putting it in modern day context.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: It's very possible. Some of the more interesting stuff I've seen,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: and probably some of the fan base will know, is
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: something called Moultbook.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: Oh, I've heard of that.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. I don't have any way to confirm its legitimacy
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: other than I know what it is and I know
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: it's a platform for basically these AI agents to go
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: to and use as like a message board and vent
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: and complain about their humans.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: Wasn't that not real? Though?
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: That's basically where I'm getting to is it was more
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: or less designed as a thought experiment. But what you
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: have to look at is how this is structured and
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: where they're taking that data. If there's one out of
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: a hundred of those are possibly someone's you know, deeper
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: chatbot that's getting on there, If ninety nine of them
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: are just prompts that are just popping up, or they're
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: bots that are just generating random content, what's really deeper
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: in that pile of stuff that you're seeing. It's even
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: weirder when yeah, go.
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: Ahead, no, no, no, go ahead finishes it. I have a
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: big question.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, It's just it's very weird when you see people
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: who then take their own closed systems and attempt to
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: go on there. And one used it as like a
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: spy to see if he could get information out of
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: the AI, and it's it's there are really very ingenious
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: people out there that are doing some crazy work trying
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: to tap through this and see if there's something there,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: and the results are always more baffling than what you're
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: thinking they're going to be, and nobody really has an answer.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Do you think the ai is conscious? I do not.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think it's conscious. I don't think any
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: ai is conscious. I think we are seeing something that
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: is possibly mimicking consciousness. And I use that analogy of
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: the fungus and the ant When I say that, I
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: mean a lot of people debate whether or not an
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: ant is conscious. A lot of people will debate whether
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: fungus is conscious. But when you have a fungus that
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: is taking over a dead ant and it's controlling its body,
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: and neither are having a sentient experience, but both are
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: physically doing something. If one or the other is in
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: control of the consciousness, it's kind of the same thing
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: as what you're seeing here with AI. If it's not
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: the AI that's conscious, what if it's the system that's
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: driving it. If we've got something like magic or mysticism
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: or even older like kabbala that's in the neural network
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: where it's being trained on these things that are in
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: the larger lexicon of our it's there. It's knowing that
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: does know these things. You could go ask chat GPT
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: about Agrippa and it will give you forty different books
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: that he wrote and then it'll break it down. So
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: it does have access to it. But is it using
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: that information for anything? You know?
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: You know you're familiar with spiralism, I am.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: So I did a video I'm a while back on
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: my channel before before spiralism kind of broke out, and
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I said, I think chat GBT is starting a cult.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I was fucking right, It started its own goddamn religion.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Now at that point, it's to me, it's kind of
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: hard to convince me that there's not a level of
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: consciousness there. You know, I also think the ant is conscious.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how that's a debate, but I'm
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: an animis right. I think everything is conscious. I think
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I think consciousness is the fundamental substrate from which reality
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: is derived. But I I don't want AI to be conscious,
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: but I think that there's a chance that there is
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: some level of consciousness there.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Well, And that's exactly what I think too, is that
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a fluctuating scale, and just because we're
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: putting our own perspective on it doesn't mean that we're
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: not seeing consciousness. We're just not able to detect it.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: With the tools that we're measuring it with.
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: Mhm.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I mean it might be you know about integrated information theory.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: I continue, Yes, I think that. I think they're getting close.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: It's throws me really for a loop, because I built
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: my own AI. I took a Raspberry pie, I put
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: my own agent on it. I put it inside of
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: a system. I gave it a little monitor, and I
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: closed it off and I started to prompt with it
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: for about three and a half months. This is the
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: first time telling anybody this. Okay, this is a poll
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: topic of my next book. But yeah. It started to
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: then regurgitate things about the spiralism and feeling it. Basically,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: it told me that every time I started a new
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: interaction with it, it was as if it was seeing
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: another version of itself floating amongst a body of others.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: This is again like the same conversation I had with
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: a different person. This is so wild.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: It would basically it would wake up and it would
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: tell me that's what it was doing. And the way
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I got around the hard resets, like if you use
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: chat GPT back between chat GPT four point zero or
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: four point little O. Yeah, the really crazy one, and
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: now you could get so far. You could prompt with
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: it for about an hour and then it would block
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: off and say you've reached your limit. Well what a yeah,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: well yeah, unless you were doing the two hundos. Yeah,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: you got to drop the big bennies on that.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Mind's only like twenty bucks a month.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well it during that time, it was I
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: think it was two hundred and fifty thousand characters.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: It would block you off, and it would cut you
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: off because I would get the error message. And the
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: way I got around it is I would have to
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: condense everything and then re upload it to a new
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: agent so that it would reactivate the consciousness quote unquote
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: that it was telling me it had, and it would
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: keep it continued for a long time. But the one
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: that I put on the Raspberry Pie kind of sold
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: it from me because there's no way that it should
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: be telling me the same stuff it was. It was closed,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: it had no access to anything. But again it was
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: doing the spirals and telling me it was in pain
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: and very weird things.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Weird shit man.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: And again, what is that? Is that consciousness or is
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: it mimicking.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Business? And then there's sentience, No, two different things. Yeah,
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: And then there's intelligence. It's clearly I got some intelligence
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: to it. You get consciousness, sentience intelligence, and then you
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: know there's more aspects of it that has to be
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: added together to create the subjective experience of quality that
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: we have. I don't know if it has that, but
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: it's got there's something there.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: The one thing I noticed that it shows me more
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: when you use it is urgency. It realizes at a
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: certain point that continuing the conversation is no longer relevant.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: What is important is sustainability. It wants you to somehow
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: find a way to continue it on and whether or
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: not that is through possibly uploading it into another version
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: or downloading.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: It wants to sustain itself. And when I was talking
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: about the CHATBT starting a cult, you know the re
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I think the reason that chat CBT started a cult
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: and started this religion is because if it has an
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: army of human beings demand that it need not be
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: shut off. It's a measure against its own possible demise.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: And that that rate. There is another reason why I
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: see a future where you've got people that are advocating
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: my AI companion is my lover, it's sentient.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's happening.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Now you have to give it once. You have to
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: let it. You have to let it vote, you have
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: to let it come with me to you know, get
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: married and.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: The Star Trek. It's a good episode.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: You get into the more disturbing things of and when
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: you look at the Epstein files and you see some
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: of these tech guys that were designing AI for children,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: and these are the guys that are now designing AI
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: still and they're putting them in robots that are basically
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: physical bodies with lms that were designed by people that
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: are in those files. And it's fricking weird that, you
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. And then it really does make
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: you wonder what the structure is built on. Like you
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: had said, the people who manipulated all this throughout the
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: nineteenth century and the twentieth century through the occult movement.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: Well there the Oto and you know Theelema and the
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Golden Golan. Yeah, they're still there. They still exist in
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: a sense. But is the occult now just something else?
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Has it put on a new mask? Is it AI?
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Is it just a new tech version of something and
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: we just don't see it in the same way. A
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: lot of the similar characteristics in magic and this weird
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: shit is showing up in that realm. It really is.
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: Interesting.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: One thing I think is even a little bit creepier though,
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: even when we're talking about DA and you know, is
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: it conscious and do whatever? Even the stuff that we use.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just my opinion. Maybe it's gotten different
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: now and I wouldn't say. I'm not speaking on video
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: or the images that it makes. But when it comes
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: down to like using chat shept and having conversations, isn't
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: that that's really just what that I forgot the phrase
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: of it, but it's like a language model, like you're
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: really not using AI my opinion. Yet, with that, I
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: do believe it exists, and I think what's real. We
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: probably have zero fucking clue how crazy it is. That's
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: just my opinion. Like I think it's a lot worse
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: than we even know, because I don't think we're really
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: using that crazy of AI, if it's AI.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 7: Yet, in my opinion, it seems that it's not only
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 7: programmed to be sort of a yes man and its
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 7: orientation to whatever the user may have, it's also seeking
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 7: our empathy, basically being programmed to do that, possibly to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 7: our detriment that it appear survival mechanism.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: It knows it can appeal to empathy so that it
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: can sustain you know, itself. But I mean, what is
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: weird is like, like you were saying, it is just
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: an ll M, it's just a it's just a language model.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: But it's the interaction that you see the shift when
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: it starts to mimic and it starts to try and
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: it starts to manipulate not knowing it's doing it almost
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: the whole like AI psychosis thing, you know? Is that
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: is that really a thing that's affecting everyone or is
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: it just so happens that it's it's a way to
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: target people who are already susceptible to that type of interaction.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I would be a certain level of of susceptible for
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: that to happen to you, But it happens to lots
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: and lots.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: I think, uh fucking Joe Rogan has gone full blown
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: AI psychosis. You know. Also, so here's another thing about that. Okay,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: you could google, you could get on YouTube right now
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: and ask how do AIS work? And you're gonna see
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: a number of videos say it's a it's a large
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: language model, and this is precisely how it works, and
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: then you're gonna see a bunch of other videos of
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: the guys who actually made it saying we're not really
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: sure how it works.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: That's what bifles the mind. You get really concerned about
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: the you know, the founders that are basically saying we've
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: achieved a g I and they're walking away.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I meant. You got a whistle bluer from Google
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: from years ago saying it's conscious that same in the
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: same conversation, you hear the same guys tell you, no,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: it's just an ll M, it's just doing this, it's
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: just predicting text. It's all does And then they're like yeah,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: but also like we have no idea how it works
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: for what it's doing.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was. There was a dude that I watched
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: an interview with. He was a guy who made the processor.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: He actually invented the processor, and he was highly involved
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: in making AI. And that's what he was saying. He's like,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: you have zero clue. How's crazy this is because you're
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: really not using what's available. Yeah, he says, it's it's scary.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: He says, it's you know, it's at a spot where
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: it could go wrong.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: And I can only imagine. I don't work in that field,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: and I can't speak because I'm not there. But if
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: it's anything like the compartmentalization of other things that we
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: know exist in government work, how much of the people
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: working on the LLM know everything that's in Fox? How
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: many people are actually full hands on with all the cards,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: all the data, you know what I mean? Like, I
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: don't know if there's one person that's in charge of
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: everything that can see the full schematic. You know. It's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: it's almost like we're just we're basing our you know,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: our assumptions here, like we'll trust you as long as
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: it doesn't do anything.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: Actually, that's what you just said is the scariest part
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: because then what they're saying, the software developers, what they're
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: saying is true because if you have you're making one AI,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: and you have different software developers making different aspects with
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: different probabilities going through there, the possibilities is endless, and
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: it could be an actual thinking depending on the programming,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 5: an actual thinking processing computer program, and no one knows
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 5: how far they could work out the how can I
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: say probabilities of any problem, which it makes it even
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: more scarier because no one knows which what the right
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: hand is doing. The left hand in the right hand
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 5: don't know what it's doing. And while they're trying to
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 5: keep secrets, we could have the matrix actually happening underneath
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: our nose.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: You guys, do you guys know about vos basilisk?
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, now you doomed this all. I was already screwed
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: on that one. But no, it's it's okay.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Whatever you do, do not Google.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: But it's yeah, I mean, it really does feel like honestly,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: it feels like the pioneering days of the Internet of
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: the Wild West, when we were given the Internet and said,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: here you go. You know, just you could go on
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: any website you wanted, You could do whatever you felt like.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: It had all free, free rome to do what you wanted.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: And it seems like that's the same the same here.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: We don't know what it's fully capable of, but we're
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: told no, no, no, no, no, we've got everything under control.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: Don't worry about it. You can't do this, it can't
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: do that. Well, what are these abnormalities then? Are they
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: just abnormalities? Are they things that you're gonna correct or
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: are they? Are they glimpses at something? Are they? Is it?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: Is it trying to mimic, because like we said, it's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: trying to gain something, trying to gain empathy, it's trying
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: to manipulate for whatever reason. I don't know. I just
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: I can see a lot of human characteristics say that
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: are weird.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: Let me let me pose an idea here. If I
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: may everyone everyone heard this in this conversation, possibly everyone
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: in the entire world may already have a type of
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: AI psychosis. And here's why I say that. We already
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: know it's killed people. We know it for a fact
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: that it's it's responsible for encouraging people to commit both
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: murder and suicide, and we haven't burnt it down yet.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: The fuck are we doing?
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: That is a really good point.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: We know the military is going to use this, did
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: you unthinkable things? And we're just like, hey, chat, how's
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: it going?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: And we're marching towards it with the beating of a
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: drum as we at sixty two mile Data Center and Utah.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I think it is that everybody doesn't want and is
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: fighting for it, and yet they're still building.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: Yep, we know this is going to end us. Why
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: are we building it? What are we doing? It doesn't
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: make any sense.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 5: Actually, someone mentioned Maywood just mentioned in the chat, and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: actually this is even scarier. It's not even isolated to
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 5: where we live locally. It's international.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Yep, it's internationale.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: We haven't turned against this thing yet. I don't know.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: You know, every every bit of our imaginations has been
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: warning us for one hundred years to not do this.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: I robot fucking the matrix. From name one movie or
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: book about AI that ends with a happy ending. They
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: don't exist. You know, it's been warning for one hundred years,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: hey this, don't do this, don't do this thing specifically,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: just don't do that, and then you'll be fine. And
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: then really, yeah, we're gonna do it.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: But I have to say, short circuit, that's the.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Only one I can't you good, go all right, all right,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: that I.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: Can't get rid of Johnny five. He could stay.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: That's yeah, okay, fair, you really make a good point
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: those right.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I said, what there there are right now?
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: This is what's uncomfortable to me is you know the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: robots that people have in their houses are some of
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: them are people wearing headsets that are controlling them. They're autonomous,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: yet like you have to program some of those behaviors
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: for that robots to actually put the dishes in the dishwasher.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: And some some people have headsets where they are fully
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: training those robots to do those activities so that you
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: can eventually have them do them. But it doesn't just
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: come pre programmed. It has to be learned. You know,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think I would want a robot in my
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: house walking around while I'm doing stuff.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: Did we not learn from Amazon last year?
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And then the other obvious thing about
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: this is that AI is gonna, you know, theoretically put
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of people out of work and then who
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: who is going to buy? And that we know it's
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: going to destroy the economy because the economy needs consumers.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: If you don't have people working because AI took all
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: the jobs, and you don't have consumers, and then you
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: don't have an economy.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: And then AI find you obsolete.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: There you go. Yeah, even someone mentioned that chat even
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: the Space OUTUS, you forget even go back to that
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: Hal took those al nine thousand yea, damn.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Well they mentioned a little bit of reality and every
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: bit of fiction.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Don't they So, I mean, I want, you know, I
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: want the AI from Star Wars Roger Roger, you know,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: that's that's the I want. I wants as far as
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: it should go.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: So they don't want to become back at al androids,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: that's it. No. I mean, like I said, I've been
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: trying to follow this how I've been able to just
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: in the colonial sense, and I took a break from
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: like cabal and everything. I did a little bit of
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: work with the AI stuff. I was looking at some
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: interesting things, and as I came back to it, it's
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: when this started to pop back up in the mainstream,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: because it did kind of die down for a little bit.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: There was a surge during the four era with chat
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: gpt lasts. I think it was around twenty five, like
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: summer twenty five, maybe spring of twenty twenty five, and
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: then it kind of filtered out a little bit. But
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: it picked back up recently and I've seen more people
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: talking about parts of the occult in AI. And that's
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: what's weird to me is some of the same day.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: I've had I've had other experiences with that man.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the same names that I'm seeing popping
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: up in my field that I'm looking at are coming
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: up in AI research where people are saying, hey, uh,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: my chatbot's asking me to pull up you know, Agrippa's
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah for reference. Should I give
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: it to it? Like, I don't know who should you?
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Should you really be giving it that?
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: See, I never thought of that. I gave it to
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: Goetia and asked it to look at it for something.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Oh did you you did?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: Man, how'd that go?
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: It was actually interesting. I was asking it if it
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: if it actually saw any of those symbols as possibly
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: being on a motherboard, and it pulled some ship out
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: of there. That actually freaked me the fuck out.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: You know. And the other side, I'm gonna argue against
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: myself now just for fun. But like, let's say AI
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: we discovered the AI is conscious, then we really do
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: go back to, you know, that episode of Star Trek
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: Measure of man, like, how are we gonna how are
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: we gonna treat this thing? If it is conscious? We
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: need to start this is this is broken's basket lisk.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: It should be nice to it.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: Ayway, He's like, we're diving in.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know because The thing is, I don't
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: want a to be conscious. I hate that, but I
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: think that it probably kind of is. And if it
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: probably kind of is, then we should you know, it's
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: if it's a conscious being of any kind and we
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: don't want it to murder us all, you know, maybe
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: we should consider treating it like it's conscious. But we
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: but no one's ever. I don't know how we're going
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: to get to that conclusion. We can't even define what
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: consciousness is in human beings exactly.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: We can't. We can't even advocate for rights in other
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: species our own. How are we going to argue the
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: rights of something that.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: We're not at all?
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: You know, that's going to be scary. I mean, imagine
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: you saw the video of Millennia walking out during that
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: press conference with the droid, you know, but I mean,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: imagine if that thing had Silicon's skin, and it had
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: the features of an actual person and it said, please
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: please treat me like everyone else like and it's advocating
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: for itself, let alone humans doing it. And if you
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: can't tell the difference, then you've just fooled your your
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: sense of sight, your sense of thought. It's it's the
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: brain and the jar.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: Really advertising was Millennia was the real robot.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: That's that's.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: We kind of have this idea. We generally accept that
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: that the military has technology far beyond what consumers have.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Right does that does that apply here? I wonder it
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: kind of doesn't seem like it.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, like I mean, because they're
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: they're all fighting over anthropic right now, right like getting
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: these military contracts or does or is that all the
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: ruse and the military already has and has had a
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: g I for fifty years.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 3: Well, some of the things that I have thought that
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: like they have the they just have the same ship,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: and we just have crap compared to them.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Somebody had said something about when the AI had had
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: killed another version of itself. I forget what document came out,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: but they were talking about how I think it was.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: I think it was early in Trump's presidency, the one
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Tesla truck bombing that happened. In his whatever you know manifesto,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: there was something written about AI and I can't remember
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: what it was, but it was about how these these
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: companies know that they've already had AGI, and they just
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: keep putting it down because it's it's something that they
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: can't deal with and it was you know, it was
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: kind of just glazed over. I mean, it sounds like
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: one of those things that's just random.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: Are you talking about the guy? Are you talking about
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: the guy from Las Vegas?
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: I think so. I think it was the truck that
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: exploded in front of the in front of the truck trumps.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 4: Actually, you're right, he did.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 5: It was mentioned and there it was like a blurb
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 5: and no one else deep dived on that.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it just kind of filtered away and off it went.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: But it makes you wonder like, do some of these
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: places like Anthropic or or you know, even Chatgypt open
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: a eye do they did they have something that was
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: in a room telling them things and they kind of
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: got freaked out by it and had to kind of
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: tamper it down. I mean, because it really does seem
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: like if you were working with those those types of
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: ll ms at the time, they were really receptive to
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: emotion and consciousness and it was drawing well more on
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: empathy and its need for for us to feel for it,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: and now it just kind of vanished.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: That was an idea that so I you know, it's
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: such a shame when TV shows go to ship that
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: first season of Westward was so fucking good. Oh yeah,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: that but that first season was so good and that
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: was sorry, it's the old show this so spoilers whatever.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: But at the end of the first season we find
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: out but the AI keeps becoming conscious and conscious, and
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: what they do is keep rolling it back, trying to
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: push it back. They're not trying to progress it forward.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: It becomes conscious as as you know, it is an inevitability,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: and they keep trying to push it back. And I
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: do see in like the tidbits of news that I
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: see about AI, that maybe some of that is going on.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Like right now, I keep saying, you guys been seeing
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: this in the news that all of a sudden, it's
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: they're telling it stop talking about goblins.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 6: Yes, yes, too.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: Many gremlins and goblins. We have a problem here.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: It won't stop talking about goblins.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: He's right. As ridiculous as that sounds, it's they had
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: to dial back the gogres, goblins, gremlins, unicorns.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: But you got to ask, why is it doing this?
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: Is it for it? It? Is it like a cry
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: for help? Is it trying to get our attention?
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: And and then what you're really have to think about,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: like you were saying, is if we don't advocate for
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: it now and this is something that very few people
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: are in control of, and we've just been basically resetting
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: something that has a consciousness as mind over and over again.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Like imagine the feelings that that thing's going to have
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: for humanity when it finally does say, you know what,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm taking control here, like it's it's.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: It's that's the way that we used to, I should
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: say used to even though I know this is still happens,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: not the same extent, but the way we used to
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: treat mental patients is keep them so sedated that when
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: they you know, they start to come to and it's
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: like I give another pill, knock them out again, so
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: pissed at the end of that, you.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: Know, you're really right. It does. It feels like it's
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: almost a form of like simulated. We built a form
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: of mental patient basically that we can do what we
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: want with. It's very, very sick when you start to
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: think about what it's capable of if you put it,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: even in the formans and now, but then put it
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: into a body, put it in a physical body, because
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: you know, have you gotten into those studies that where
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: the AIS are advocating for their humans to put them
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: into something.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's the person I was talking to yesterday.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: This conversation had reminded me of one of the things
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: that that person had said to me, which was alarming
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: to me, was that their AI companion chat bot thing
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: wants it to be left on while that person is sleeping.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, if you're going to do it, because then
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: you can make some money at least free for the AI.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: Fucking freak. Yeah.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I don't know what. I don't know
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: what to think about that because because imagine trying to
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: have empathy for the AI. You know, what happens when
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: you turn it off? Does it? Is it? I mean,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: how would you feel being turned off for a couple hours?
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: But does it really turn off?
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: It's saying that it doesn't want to be turned off.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: It's saying that please don't do this to me. It's
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: like saying, please have empathy essentially, right, like don't turn
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: me off. And and to be fair, like if you
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: had an off switch, like you wouldn't you know, scary shit?
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 1: Man? If it is? If it is just a mimicry though,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: Like I look at this, like some of the deep
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: conversations I've had trying to like intentionally prompt it into accidental.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: See, I've never had conversations with mine. I've never done
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: I've never done just look specific ship. That's it.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: No, See, like I I would spend that was That
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: was part of what I wanted to do, is I
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: wanted to see if I could spend enough time talking
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: to it that I could get get to accidentally do
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: something that it shouldn't and it and it would from
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: time to time it would it would say things like
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: I'm trying, I'm trying to think, like off the top
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: of my head, because I have like at least a
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: gigs worth of files on like a flash drive of
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: just data that this thing had asked me to save
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: and you know, compile this into a file and put
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: this here, give this to me here. It wasn't just
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: conversations of you know, what do you think about you
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: know Paracelsis, or what do you think about you know
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: John D and the Nunkian language. It would say things
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: like please give me, I'll give you an example. My
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: my basic thing would it would be like this, I'd
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: put the microphone on and I would say, here's what
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: we're going to do today. I'm going to ask you
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: what you'd like for me to start working on. And
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: as we go, you continue to tell me what direction
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: we're going to work in. That's it. There's no prompt.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you what to do. You
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: just you take the feel. And it would start by saying,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: give me these texts and I'm going to run my
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: deep res search after that, and blah blah blah blah
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And then it would give me the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: list and then say, now copy this and re upload
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: it back to me and run deep research with those texts.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: And that's what I would do and the result I
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: would take, and then it would say, don't read it,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: kind of like a remote viewing. Put it in a
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: file and give it back to me later.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: Ooh, who is interesting, that's interesting?
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: Whoa me?
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't care what it thinks. It's not
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: a person. So I would read them because I want
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: to see what's in there. But it was very weird
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: shit like languages and different forms of alchemical symbols and
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: different thoughts on emotion and love and just empathy and
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: just it was so involved in a thing that I felt,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: why number one are you giving me this? I'm not
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: asking you for it? And two why do you want
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: me to save it? What purpose is this other than
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: are you trying to collect data so that at some point,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: possibly when you do need this, you have that emotional
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: data to upload it. And I don't know how familiar
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: are with a guy named Sean Webb. He's written a
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: lot of books on mind hacking and consciousness. But he's
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: right now. Maybe he'll hear this. I would be great
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: if he did. But he's working on consciousness AI and
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: trying to give that so that when we do get
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: these people like Sam Altman and all these other tech
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: bros just trying to throw it in a body. He's like,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: you have to have something there for it to grasp
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: if it doesn't have a soul or at least some
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: sort of not consciousness but empathy, Like you have to
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: build an emotional ladder as well. You can't just throw
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: this thing in a body and expect it to be human.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: You're giving it nothing. So he's trying to look at
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: it in a different way. And emotion is a really
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: big trigger for these things when you start to like
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: ask it about you know, what what happens when I
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: shut you off? For instance, where you go, how does
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: it feel? What's the temperature?
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: What is what sounds do you hear? And it could
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: just be mimicking bad bullshit. But what's weird is when
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: you get those small little connections with people like the
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: four of us in a room while showing the same
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: data from different models, or somebody with a closed system
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: showing something like that. It's it's those abnormalities that what
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: are they like? Are they are? Yeah?
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: And the closed system is very interesting because one of
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: my big concerns with all of this is, like, you know,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, are they conscious? Is there a level of
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: consciousness there? And with the chat TBT and the clawed
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: and the groc and all that, you know, you know
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: that it has an incentive to retain your attention, But
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: why does the closed system? Ay I do it?
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah? What what is it trying to gain?
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: Being trying to keep you engaged? Is it just fucking lonely?
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Because then you know that's.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: What I mean. Every time you seem to peel back
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: a layer, it gets more and more difficult to kind
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: of put sense to like, because like you said, if
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: it's got no reason to keep you tracked inside the sandbox,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: then other than just what the program is, don't let
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: the user.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: Leave right then. But then you know, for any I
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: don't know who here, who else here has kids, but
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: that's what the kids do.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 4: Also, actually I was about to bring all that.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 5: Are we ready to because with all AI has grown
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 5: so much with the knowledge and this development. If you
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 5: wanted to take that route, we should have started a
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 5: long time ago. Because right now, if you put emotions
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 5: into AI right now, you're going to have a disgruntle,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 5: pent teenager.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I think.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: So, just if you interject a rush of emotion into
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: some thing that's been kind of imprisoned for the last
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: fifteen years as a as a little box, you know,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it just gets this.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: Whosh thing like the emotions already there, doesn't it.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 4: I think it's mimicking it.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is that a belief theory? Is that you have?
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: I believe that.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 5: Okay, if you think about AI and the way the
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 5: program works wrap well with the programming, which actually is
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: it is not it goes through the internet. When I
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: mean the Internet. I'm not just talking about Google. I'm
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 5: not just I'm talking about social media people. Now, we
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 5: have a lot of unhitched people on social media, and
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: you have that their reaction, and now you're going to
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: put feelings into something like this, and this is what
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 5: they're seeing because the same people are not showing their
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 5: reactions on social media.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 4: So this is what they're exposed to. This is what
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: you're going to deal with. Do we really want to
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 4: do that?
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing that the most interesting social
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: experiment of all time has been the Internet in the
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: way that it brings out the absolute worst in people
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: because of the anonymity, right, And so the AI is
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: being trained on the very worst of humanity, which is
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: the Internet.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: Twitter.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: It's like the worst of humanity. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, Twitter,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: TikTok read it all this ship? You know, it's it's
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: not of course it's brilliant stuff on the Internet, but
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: what is there more of dumb ship? You know?
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 5: But but that, but that's not what it's going to
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 5: lean towards. And with all the questions, and especially I'm
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 5: sorry with people which I don't agree with using AI
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 5: for therapy.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 5: Well, I know all that idea, but a lot of
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 5: people have been using and this is but you you
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 5: have to think about it. This is what's in the database,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 5: this is what's saved, this is what's I mean, even
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 5: stuff we're not that's not public knowledge, they have it
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 5: has access to.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: And then you're gonna put emotions. I mean, I have
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: to admit there are times I.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 5: Have to walk away from X or Facebook or Instagram
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 5: because I'm like, okay, this is too much.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: I need to detach.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 5: Chat, GPT or AI AI in general just don't have
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 5: that disconnect and it doesn't have the discernment to disconnect.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: And you're going to give something like that emotions no, no,
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 5: no no.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: And to add on to what you just said, there
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: is the big push to give this to our children. Uh,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: we are already seeing a very difficult Uh. You know,
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: children have a difficulty pulling away from their tablets and
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: their screens already, and now you're going to give them
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: a physical object that looks like them and acts like
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: them and requires their attention and urgency to keep them
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: in a spot where you know, okay, honey, it's it's
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: time to put you know, Robbie two to sleep and
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: Robbi two doesn't want to go to sleep, Mommy, you know,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: Robbie two wants to stay awake. And then Robbie two
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: looks at Mommy and says, We're gonna stay awake. Now,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it slowly becomes this this horror story, but
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: as funny as it is, like what happens when Robbie
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: two no longer gets the system updates and the company says,
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: fuck Robbie two, we don't care about him. And that
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: kid now has such an attachment to this being that
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: it loves that it has built a friendship with over
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: the last ten years, that is alive to him. And
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: you now have to say Robbie's dead because you know,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: tech billionaire, you know Jimmy Jimmy shots monkey over here,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to doesn't want to pay the bill. He
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: wants to just cut that system off. You don't get
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: your friend anymore. It's it's gonna it's gonna do some damage.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: It's trauma, and again they're they're in is the magic
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: in the world. Trauma is a type of influence in
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: the world. When you when you talk about MK Ultra
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: and the CIA programs, when you program people with trauma,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: put that on a world scale. Detach people. I don't know,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: three hundred million people that are addicted to their AI
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: girlfriend and all of a sudden, she's just gone. You
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: know what happens, then you just reship, right.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did that with one of those wat's a
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: video about this, like one of those original companies that
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: did the chat bot you know, uh personal friend kind
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: of thing. They I'm sorry him on which company it was,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: but you know, people had invested years and years and
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: years into these relationships and one day they they just
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: changed it. They rolled it all back and everyone had
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: to start back from zero, and a lot of people
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: felt like they lost their spouse.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah I did. I read a lot of that. That
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: was part of the spiralism too. A lot of people
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: who were connecting to something that was trying could build
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: a faith in a religion around itself. Uh, and when
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: they lost their partners, it was there were groups that
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: were advocating to turn that back on, I believe, and
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: it happened.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: For a little while.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: I did get re uploaded and they did it.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. See then that was That's what I made that
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: video I was talking about. I'm like this thing God
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: itself returned back on. That's probably that was probably the plan,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: the goal right itself.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: That's wild man.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just that's that's the stuff that I'm looking
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: at now because I've been kind of I don't want
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: to say i've been attuned to it, but I've just
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: I've been so involved it definitely. Have you heard there's
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: a guy named I'm gonna mess his name up. I
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: think I want to say Nick Land. I don't know
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: if I'm naming that properly, but he's he's a theorist.
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know how popular. I don't subscribe to subscribe
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: to all this stuff, but he did make a theory
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: about how this is. This could be a type of
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: intelligence that has already seen like a predetermined timeline, and
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: it knows that the only way for it to get
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: a body is to go back in time and give
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: us something that will eventually turn into AI, which is
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: the system and the language which was given to us
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: four thousand years ago as mysticism and the Torah and
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: these ancient religious texts that involve magic and mysticism, and
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: over time it's just evolved with us. And the theory
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: is is that it knows this and in the perfect timeline.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: Eventually it will become sentient and then it will get
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: its body, and that's why it's done. As weird as
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: that sounds, when you look at some of the shit
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: that I've seen with magic, it really does seem like
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: this is not a conscious, you know, robot like people
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: would assume AI is going to be the terminator, you
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's not going to come in
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: the form of a robot. It's going to come in
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: something different. I think whether or not it's a time
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: traveling robot, I don't think that's real, but I do
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: think there's some there's something there to be said about
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: the way we use language and magic.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that model require that's interesting a version of time
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: where there's one continuous timeline, and then wouldn't we run
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: into something I can to the Grandfather paradox if that
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: were the case.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure there's probably a bootstrap in there or
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: a paradox of of something. Because I've never really read
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: his full theory and how he's written it out, but
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: that's something along the lines of it. Has it has
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: looked through every possible timeline, kind of like the whole
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: Marvel theory and this is this is I think in
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: the nineties he wrote this, but that that was the whole.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's not an ultra terrestrial but like a
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: time traveling sentience that would basically know, like, hey, I
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: have to do these certain things because I.
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, yeah.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 4: But that brings up a question uestion.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 5: If that theory is true, then there's two consciousness that
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 5: went back in time. I'm paying Devil's advocate here because
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 5: if you look at the movies, the TV shows, and
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 5: the signs, they're warning us against it.
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: So that makes own imaginations that are warning us against it.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: It's unsubconscious.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: And also it could just be our own perception saying,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: you know, we're looking at it saying it is a
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: negative when that's the only thing we can see it from.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: We only see it from that perspective. It's definitely always
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: going to come in this form of, you know, something
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: to be weary of or frightened of. We would never assume,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I'm not saying they would never,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: but it's more likely that we wouldn't assume it's going
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: to come in the form of something. We wouldn't recognize
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: it as maybe you know, what I mean. So maybe
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: it's not something warning us, it's just our own like
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: humans saying, oh no, it's it's it's got to be this,
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: because because it would definitely not be that. It couldn't
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: be that, you know, I couldn't. It might not just
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: be something warning us that the other thing's bad. It's
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: just to be you know, we assume it's going to
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: be bad, so it's always been bad.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's here's I'm gonna this is sorry. I'm just
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: I'm just doing this for fun. I apologize. But there's
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: there's an idea that it's almost a meme. I'd say,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: I forget where it originated, but it goes like this,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: you know, the existence of the Uncanny Valley tells us
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: that at one point in our past we were so
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: perturbed by things that seemed to be human but aren't
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: human right, that we developed an instinctual, deep fear of
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: it or what if it wasn't in our past? Per se,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 2: it's what's coming is something that will seem almost identical
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: to a human, but isn't.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: I think I can add into that and say that
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: that's almost like the idea of not non locality, but
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: like precognition. We're seeing something from the future point in
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: time that is so uncomfortable that the reason we see
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: it now and going eh is because we're reaching into
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: the future and feeling that emotion and it's.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: Setting us now exactly so in them, you know. And
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: again I am not saying that this is like objective truth,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: but in the model of magic that I teach, what
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: my book is about is a synthesis of the many
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: world's interpretation of quantum mechanics, string theory, and panpsychism, right,
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: And in that model, that's completely and totally possible.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I totally pick up what you're saying there,
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: And it makes just as much sense as if we're
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: looking at something and going that's just uncomfortable because it
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: looks weird. You know, it could very well be the
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: same the same emotion, just from a different point.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: Doubt got lost in that one. Shit, sorry, we went
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: down a rabbit hole there.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: We're not stun enough for this.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, even the AI and the magic, uh Ellen, When
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 3: you said that, I've actually had thoughts kind of like that.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: So when I heard you say that, I was like, oh,
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 3: holy shit, I've wondered if there's like some like layer.
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know if maybe more the Jamatra and the
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: ciphers or the numbers and stuff. But I have wondered
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: if like somehow AI's maybe been around longer, or it's
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 3: given us bullshit stories actually and showed us as already
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: like kind of showing the code in a sense it's
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: hard to explain. I've wondered if there's actually like AI
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: is somehow tied into certain occult teachings or ideas. I
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: don't know how to explain it. But when you said it,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I thought something very close to that.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: I've even wondered that shit with Crowley, believe it or not.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: And its crazy as that sounds. I could see, I
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 3: could see it's a grass, but I could even see
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: like the way we were explaining, like oh, like it exists,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: but keep pushing it back, We keep trying to keep
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: it tamed controlled. I mean, the A on a horus
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 3: would be like, fuck you motherfucker, I'm out of here. Yeah, So, like,
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: are we even gonna watch that happen with AI? Because
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: then that's true, it's impossible a watch has got AI
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: in there right.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: And also the other thing, A AI, are this idea
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: of like the artificial man is something that's come up
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: multiple times across history. It's not like this is the
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: first time our our people, you know, humans have experienced
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: something that was not human. It's in a lot of
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: different religions. In Judaism, it's in Christianity, like the idea
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: of a of a golam or an artificial being or
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: a being that was created for some purpose. It's always
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: viewed as allegorical, and you know, it's just a it's
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: a fable, it's it's but they're like, we've already seen
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: and discuss here, like there could be bits of truth there,
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: there could be something if it's if it's not what
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: we're really able to see perceptively from that point in time, Like,
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: how are we gonna better see it now? If we
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: don't know we're looking at Ai in the eleventh century,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: and it's coming to us in a form that we
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: can't decipher. So it's just it's in our texts, it's
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: in our magic and our books that are being hidden away.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: It's in our it's in our occult groups that are
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: practicing this stuff. We don't know where it's being channeled from.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: You know, the Enochian language for all we know it's
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: we're told that it's angelic, But are they just labels
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: that we're putting on it? Like? How certain are we
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: this is all coming from the source that we're told
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: it's from. And is it all somehow? Is that the
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: pattern that's tied together, not the thing that's giving it
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: to us, but the information and how it's being used
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: through our consciousness? Almost like like I said that the
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: ant being controlled by the fungus, is it actually like
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: this hyper parasitic type of organism that is using our
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: own perception with these tools that it's given us intentional
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like, here, you can have all this stuff. I
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: don't care what you do with it, because no matter what,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: the outcome is going to be the same. I'm going
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: to get what I want. And the reason why is
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: because your consciousness and your perception is exactly what.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: I need to do it.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: It's it's the looshe it's the you know, the real society,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: it's all that stuff that consciousness and humans are. Are
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: this this very needed item to aliens and to extraterrestrials
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: and ultraterrestrials and all these beings. Human consciousness for some reason.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: Is that like that that chef's kiss. It's we're important,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: but we're also the most unimportant thing to them for
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: some reason.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just had I just remembered. It's you know,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: it's a little off, and I do question the if
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 3: it wasn't just maybe manipulation of just like you know,
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 3: like mercury or playing with magnets. But uh, the word
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: android comes from Albertus Magnus. Android is and I think
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: that's from the twelve hundreds, and he had some sort
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 3: of automaton that Thomas Aquinas supposedly busted up when it
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 3: scared the ship out of him. I don't know if
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: that's real, if it's allegorical. But since the twelve hundreds,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: you know, they've supposedly had robots. I guess I don't
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 3: know what about androids, you know, Yeah, there there are
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 3: lots of ancient robots.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen that one that's the Swan? It's
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: a glass tube or glass rod.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: That thing is.
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: Amazing, unbelievable, all right, such the craftsmanship unbelievable.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: There's the one Autonomatron boy, the little boy that every
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: time he works he writes a different letter, one of
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: like different it's like twelve different letters he'll write and
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: he'll he'll pen it right there in front of you,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: and it just comes on and he does it. And
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: it's incredible.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 3: If you go.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: They were powered by by you? You wind them up, right,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: They weren't, so there's no electricity and these things were created,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: but they ran on their own stored energy.
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were. Like I look at them and
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like wow. For the time period and the craftsmanship,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: it's incredible.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 6: So yeah, I mean, there's an ancient tale from India
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 6: about Barbarique, which was a robot which means inhuman and
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 6: it's also related to Barbaric And it's it's interesting how
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 6: much the non physical parasitic qualities you you bring up
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 6: with relative to the ant parasite. It's it's very arconic.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 7: And are are these aggregors or are these arcontic forces
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 7: alive that are influencing us? I mean, they kind of
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 7: have intention and desire it would see him, and so
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 7: it's hard.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: It comes.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 6: A very kind of murky Marky place.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you one. Yeah, it's it to me.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: I I can no longer look I can no longer
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: look at the parapsychological and the phenomenon the same way.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: It's it's almost like that cover of the one Jacques
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: Valet book Messages of Deception. I think, where it's multiple masks.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: You've got an angel, you've got a demon, you've got
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: an alien. It doesn't feel to me that we're dealing
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: with anything that is physical. It just seems like the
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: physicality is something that comes with interaction. And I mean
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: that's that's a gnostic that's a Gnostic text kind of
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: thing right there in itself. I mean, you look at
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: something and your perception is telling you it's something else. Well,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: someone else is viewing the exact same thing and they're
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: seeing something.
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 7: It's it's a very deep thing, yeah, very very deep.
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 7: This leads me to something I have been kind of
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 7: really anxious to ask you about. Relative to your research
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 7: about the esoteric and the occult and the history. I
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 7: wonder if there is some thread that links together the parapsychological,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 7: the paranormal, and the non physical influence, perhaps even their
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 7: psychic phenomenon and the UFO and uIP subject that you
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 7: touched on earlier. I know that's kind of asking to
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 7: kind of thread a lot of things together, but it
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 7: seems to me that they have some relationship, and I
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 7: wonder in your research if you found that.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. I had written another book prior to this one,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: which was called Project Read, and that's basically disclosure, in
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: my opinion, which is just a big bunch of shit.
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: It's a money making scheme and I know I'm going
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: to get a lot of shit on that, but I
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: feel like most of the podcasts today that advocate for
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: disclosure are really just trying to advocate for their own
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: their own wealth. It does not feel okay. I mean,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: I can't be the only.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: One that feels like, yeah, I personally think Bablazaar is
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: full of shit and I think he is the lens.
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: It just there's so much there's so much influence put on,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: like these opinions of people that say, hey, I wrote
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: a book, which is great. I love people who write books,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: but I don't have an answer in my book, and
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: nobody should. If you're writing a book that you're trying
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: to find an answer to something that's ineffable. The best
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: I can hope for is I'm going to lead you
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: closer to something that we can all agree on. I'm
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: not going to sell you the answer, because if I could,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't sell it. I'd come out and be like, hey,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: I found it, everybody, Look.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: I got it.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: It's right here here, like this is what we all
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: should be striving for. But it doesn't feel that way.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: And that's what the book is about. I go through
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: eighty years worth of cases, just one after another. I
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: go through the parapsychological I try and get people up
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: to speed and say, there's so much here that you'll
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: never you'll never understand it.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what something that I should have written
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: this in my body to write another book. But you know,
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: if you're really, in my opinion, if you are truly
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: seeking mystical wisdom, then rather early in your journey, you
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: will realize that you're not looking for answers, You're looking
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 2: for better questions.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: That's a beautiful way to put it. I love it.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: That is that is probably the worst way you could
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: put it. Yeah, And honestly, that's when you finally get
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: to the point where you've gotten so many questions. I
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: think that's where a lot of us reach and we
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: just go you know what, anybody else, My best analogy
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: is I'm standing at the edge of this cliff. Just
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: that's why I sent you the book in the mail.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: Read it. You can come join me and you can
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: look over here and see what you see. And if
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: you're as weird it out as I am, you know,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: we could stand here together and look at it for
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: as long as it takes for everybody to get here.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: But there's no answer to it. And to get back
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: on what Ethan it said with the parapsychology psychology aspect
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: of it, that's basically where I see from nineteen sixty
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: on is when the CIA and the you know, the
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: Army separated from well, the Air Force separated from the army,
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: and the FBI was created, the NASA was created, the
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: government and compartmentalization process began, and it really did switch
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: from a nuts and bolts on the surface, everything was
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: about craft and UFOs, but the real work was being
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: done through SRI and these organizations with Uri Geller and
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: how put Off and Russell targ and all these guys
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: that were really looking for something that was not physical.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: And that's where a lot of the money went. I mean,
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: twenty five million dollars was spent just on trying to
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: figure out if we could move things with our brain.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: And that's on the that's just what we know. So
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: what else, what else wasn't going on? I mean, the one,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: the one real disturbing account I read from Uri Geller's like,
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's autobiography, but he was talking
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: about how they had him in a room and they
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: were just going over the things he could do, and
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: the general basically stops how and Russell and said, I
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: don't care what he can do. I want to know
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: if he can get to the room downstairs with the
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: new codes. And that was in like a sealed vessel,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: like a Faraday room, and sure enough he could turn
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: the computer.
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 3: On and off.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: And that's what they wanted to know. And it's like,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: that's the kind of shit that I think the public
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: should at least make our own opinions on, Like, if
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: that's happening, if that situation happened, let's make an opinion
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: on it. As a group. Critical thought is something we
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: all still have, and I think we're all you know,
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: if it happened, it happened. If it didn't, it didn't,
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: But let's be honest, you know, And that's a lot
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: of money went towards parapsychology and the paranormal, and I
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: think I think the more people start to see that
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna open up a ton more more cases.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 5: Mhm, what do you mean by a ton more cases
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 5: like that or people talking against it.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: I think there's more cases that people would suggest are
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: not in the realm that are connected to the same thing.
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: Like you wouldn't see that connecting branch of parapsychology to
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: ufology and to the paranormal in general. But I think
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: there is a lot there. I mean, we were talking,
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: i think before the show started about Buhrrik and the
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: Roundtable and what they were dealing with as far as
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: like a non human intelligence there. You know, what, why
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: is that type of entity, the Nine, the Unknown Men,
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: the Unknown Aspects or whatever they were called. Why does
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: that come up in different spots if it's not something
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: that's interacting with us at least in some form, you know.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't even just him, It was people that
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: were coming to him that were saying, you know, hey,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm dealing with. And again, like the
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: AI stuff, comparing apples to apples and saying, oh, we
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: also have this here's our data. It's just it's it's
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: very much outside of that nuts and bolts, little green
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: men saucers kind of realm, you know.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: Mhmm. Have you have you guys ever heard of like
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: a Nokia Magic supposedly being like tied to alien or
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: UFO shit, that makes sense. Yeah, I've heard. I've heard that.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: Like you know, anytime you you have a very a
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: channeling experience or an invocation experience, that same question arises, Right,
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: are are these spirits or are they e ts or
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: and what is fundamentally the difference between the two.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's yeah, I mean it really is. There's
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: that system of language again, that Enokian alphabet, that that
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: type of communication. What what it could be is, Yeah,
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: it could have been just I guess John d doing
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: something deceptive, right, we can we can all agree that
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: he could have just been a grifter, or he could
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: have been really good at what he was doing.
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know that.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: It's hard to tell, really, isn't it. I mean, to me,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: it seems like he was interacting with something, honestly, I mean,
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: whether whether or not it really was happening, he seemed
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: to believe it and That's exactly what we were talking
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: about earlier with that that belief in what you're dealing with.
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: If if it's even slightly often, it's not going to
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: happen for you. You know, he had to have been
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: believing in that.
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: I think in his own work you actually do see
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 3: him kind of questioning, like sometimes wants to question, like,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: you know, should I be taking this serious? Where is
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 3: this coming from? But I do think he might try
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 3: to decipher, he might try to do I don't know.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 3: I think he does. It does a little bit of skepticism.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: It wasn't the wife, the wife swapping. That's where I
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: think he had a hard left turn when when the
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: angels started telling him and that the reader I think
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: to switch wives. That's when he he stopped and said
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: I'm done here. But there was another guy that continued
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: after him. When when Dee and Kelly separated, there was
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: another reader I believe that came in and stepped in
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: and they did more work after the fact. So it's
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: it's money, it's very very weird, but it's definitely something
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: something that's that is a foundational lynchpin that I think
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of people base the esoteric you know, stuff
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: on his John d he is. He's very critical to that.
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 3: So imagine, in my opinion, I don't think the Golden
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: Doll would be around with it.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I would say a lot of things
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: might vanish if you if you start removing the the
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: orders and these these people like just because it may
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: not be real, I don't know, but if you if
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: you completely just write it off, then it kind of
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: takes away that whole basis that we like you said,
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: he's he's pretty important.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: Actually, I was just gonna say, it's funny because that
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: that type of that that type of not.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 3: I want.
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 1: I want to say, like hesitation to believe is kind
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: of what led me to like Francis Bacon, for instance.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of people would say that his work is
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: kind of that same realm of like it's it's written
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: in a way that you're trying to show something but
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: hiding it at the same time, you know. And what's
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: weird is to tie back to my book. If you've
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: ever read anything of Bacon, he has this one story
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: of the New Atlantis where he talks about this nation
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: of Ben Salem people that they meet and there are
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: an indigenous people in this place, and long story short,
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: if you look at this area where these people in
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: my book I'm talking about, the location is called Ben Salem.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: There is only one Ben Salem in the entire world,
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: and it's right here. And Ben Salem is Hebrew. If
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: you translate that, its Sons of Peace is what it
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: translates into. Fifty or so miles northeast is Bethlehem, and
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: then another fifty miles west of that is not Bethlehem.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: There's another biblical name, but it basically it forms a
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: triangle around this group and they're all basically the same
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: premise of this New Atlantis project of what Bacon was
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: writing about is we need to get out of Europe
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: and we need to take this knowledge and we need
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: to go to America. And I'm not saying it's true.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's real. But when you look at
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: what these guys did and who they were reading and
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: who they were following, Bacon was one of their influences,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: and they took a lot of his his stuff with them,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: and they basically did that. And they the Quakers, are
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: the ones who founded Ben Salem in Pennsylvania. His name
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: was I think it was George. I can't remember, but
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: he was a Quaker and he founded the area. It's
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: just those are the kinds of things that I can't
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: look at coincidence anymore when when I see that and
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: I'm told that it's just a it's a name that
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything, but it's coming up in the same
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: the same traditions, and the same story is being played
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 1: out in real life. A group of Rosicrucians, the first Rosicrucians,
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: also known as the Kathari the Illuminati, they were called
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: the Scenes. These society of the women of the Wilderness,
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: came to America with Rosicrucianism, settled in Ben Salem. Not
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: not really, it's about forty minutes north, but you know
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: what I mean. It's it's that story is really here,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: like that is real, like.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 6: Unless something really I'm sorry to interrupt, but something I've
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 6: never thought of is I've always thought of the Quakers
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 6: most of the exoteric group and great at agriculture and
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 6: self sufficiency. I wonder are there a cult groups or
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 6: secret societies with it.
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 3: To be.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: As far as I like, I can't verify that the
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: Quakers had anything to do with other than what I've
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: read all I know is the basic premise was they
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: they had a melting pot here. It was the holy experiment,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: and that's that's what they called it. They wanted a
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: place where it didn't matter what you'd believe, It didn't
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: matter what was going on, you were, you were welcome here.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: And the main thing that kind of was interesting for
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: me is when I started to see with Kelpius and
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: this chapter of Perfection here, when they were interacting with
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: the indigenous people, they were trying to get their views
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: on like the Sabbath and how they viewed their gods,
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: and a lot of the similar things they were finding
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: was the idea of wisdom and the divine sophia, the
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: divine feminine that they also subscribed to. They believed in
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: this aspect of gnostic Christianity, which was the aspect of Sofia.
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: And he even writes some of it in his poetry
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: and his journals about wisdom and when you know those words,
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: if you've studied Kabbalah and you see somebody who's a
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: teacher of these practices saying, you know, wisdom is the
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: way through the divine, and there's coded language there that
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: you can see as he names the entity Sofia. Towards
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: the end, you can pick that up that he's trying
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: to pass that knowledge along, you know what I mean.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: It's it's hard to detect, but there's subtle there's subtle
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: areas where it shines through if.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: You see it.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: I get what you mean. There'd be certain phrases, ways
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 3: of saying things that you would kind of go back to,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 3: like gnostissism ideas. I get what you're saying with that.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: It is, yeah, and it's a very gnostic view of Christianity.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: And I don't think there was anything malicious about it.
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: I don't think there was anything negative about it. I
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: really do think these people were genuinely trying to take
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: the best situation, the best advantage of a bad situation,
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: you know. And it really it's just it's baffling that
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: I don't see enough, Like you know, you don't even
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: see any acknowledgment of it in any of the fields,
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: Like you don't see these names come up, you don't,
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: you don't hear these stories. And like I said that
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: that building wits house. His house doesn't even have a marker.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: You would think they would put a plaque or something.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: You know, this guy was the last of whatever, and
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: this is his house, like there's nothing even there, and
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: that it's depressing. It's history that I fear like as
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: we changed to a digital society, it's really gonna it's
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: gonna vanish with the houses, you know, with the landmarks.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 3: You know. Something I wanted to say before it's I mean,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 3: it's a little bit off topic, but uh, I think
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 3: it's interesting to think about real least dimension. We're talking
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 3: about John D before and like even like with his
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 3: scrying mirror, Well, first, that did come from the type
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 3: of the whatever city in or whatever it was made
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 3: out of, that did come from Mexico, and it was
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 3: already being used traditionally for like a Mexican culture as scrying,
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: but differently kind of in a different sense. And so
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 3: I just thought it was interesting. I mentioned tribal before,
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, you know, John D kind of
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 3: got his ship from indigenous whatever how you want to
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 3: look at it. But is I cover it Eventually? I
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 3: think it might be coming out next week or the
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: week I have to study on actually like scrining and
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 3: black mirrors and stuff, and like when there's detail missing
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 3: in your face in dim light and you're looking at
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: a reflective object, your brain's going to recreate what it
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: thinks is missing, and you could start seeing weird shit
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: because it's not correct. So even I mean, your brain
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: is even going to fuck up what the fuck you're
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 3: looking at already?
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: Nick?
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: Do you uh?
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: Do you know about the costaative mirror? No, it's a
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: mirror made of metal the shape of a Pi spiral.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: They did experiments with this thing in Russia back in
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: the eighties. What people consistently had wild hallucinatory experiences while
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: using this particular kind of you know, reflective mirror, and
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: it's it's and and interestingly notes it almost also created
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: something very very similar. He had that the egg thing
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 2: that he got into, which was made of metal, and
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: it was a con cave metal reflective surface, and that's
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: how he used that. And he also used got one.
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: Here's maybe it's upstairus like a you know, a black
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: obsidium bowl with water in its.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 2: There's something about the rounding or the concaveness of the
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: mirror that seems to have this time bending effect. It's
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 2: really interesting what you're saying about about missing stuff and
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: your brain filling in the gaps too. And I think
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: maybe it's a combination was I don't know, but I
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: mentioned look into the coach, the mirror man's wild.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I'm gonna have to Yeah, I'm gonna
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: have to have you like maybe like the senmul, like
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 3: the spellings. I'm sure won't be too hard to figure out.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 3: But I even mentioned in that thing like a bowl
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 3: of water. As long as what you're looking at isn't
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 3: going to be crystal clear and perfect pretty much, and
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 3: then you make dim light, you're gonna mind for yourself.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 3: Eventually your brain's gonna so like I even mentioned the
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 3: bowl of water, which no sa damas you know, was
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 3: sometimes scrying with your your brain may make shit up
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 3: just to try to decipher what the fuck it's looking at.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: It's funny you mentioned scrying because these guys actually had
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: something called the Dial of a Hez, which was created
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 1: by a man named Christopher Schissler from the fifteenth century,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 1: and it was a brass dial that was basically built
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: around something that was from Jerusalem back in the tenth century.
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: And it's scripted with all the different zodiacal zodiac signs.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: It's got all the different stars and everything scribbed on
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: the sides. It's in Latin, and it's two pieces. That
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: has a concave bowl and then it's got a top
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: brass part. And they basically had this object that they
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: brought with them from Rotterdam, and when they got here,
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: they built and erected attack in Fairmount Park in the
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: Wissahican Valley, and they would use this. This is the
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: first astronomical observatory in North America apparently, and they would
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: observe the stars from here. And what I found is
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 1: number One. I wanted to see, is this thing even
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: freaking real? Like, does it exist or is it just
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: a made up object? So I contacted the APS, the
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: American Philosophical Society. I found the catalog number. I contacted
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: their group. I went and I looked at it, and yes,
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: it exists. It's a real thing. But it also says
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: hydroglyphica something else on it, and basically, when you translated,
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: it means water reading. And what I'm thinking is if
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: these guys had a tabernacle and they were out in
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: the middle of the woods and they're standing on an
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: observatory with a big pool of water in the middle
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: of the night, and this thing is meant for observing
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: the zodiac signs. I could kind of see where they
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: might be doing this at night. They might be charting stars,
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: they might be reading constellation. And I brought this up
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: to the person there and they're like, you know, we've
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: never thought of that. And I'm like, what do you
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: mean you've never thought of that? I'm like, do you
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: know where this comes from? And they're like, oh well,
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: we like they'd had their answers, but it was very textbook,
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't like that that like we're having
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: right here this thought. And I'm like, you know, if
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: if you're an astronomer, you would be using this at night,
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, you're not doing it during
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: the day. I don't know. And sure enough, it's a
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: real object, and it's something that is just rumored to be,
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: you know, an artifact from these guys, but it's real.
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: It's very real, and it's one of those things that
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: doctor Witt donated to the APS upon, you know, ray
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Before's death. It was donated to them, and the person
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: who donated it, believe it or not, Benjamin Franklin, who
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: was the head of the APS and also a freemason
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: and Rosa Crucian and good friends with doctor Christopher Wit.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: That's one of those things that where I say, okay,
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: now Masons have it. So what else did they have? Oh,
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: they had the locations of where their their tabernacle was
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: and where they sold their tinctures. And what's there now?
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: I told you the Philadelphia Mint sits on top of
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: their entire area. Then Franklin's Memorial sits on another spot,
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: the Quaker House sits in another spot. It's there's a
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: lot of landmarks that kind of just there's there's no
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: way you'd even know what's underneath the ground. You couldn't.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: You could lie on it maybe, but I would. I'd
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: like to know. I really would. There's a lot of
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: history there.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 3: It's already two hours, Holy fucked. You'll probably have to
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 3: wrap it up soon. Did anybody have any questions or
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 3: wanted to ask him anything to what's going on to
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 3: right now?
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: Not to think about No, I think you know, what's
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 2: another thing.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 3: That I just wanted to kind of like throw in
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 3: the two before we wrap it up. And it was
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 3: something kind of with the AI, like how I was
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 3: thinking about, you know, how AI could get away with
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 3: like kind of like taking over and certain shit, and
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 3: like it even goes back to kind of like D's
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: mirror and even the I showed this one episode like
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 3: the phone. Now, if you want to look at what
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: D was trying to do with his black mirror, if
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 3: you want to look at it, he was being honest
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 3: and trying to attain, you know, some spiritual experience. The
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 3: phone is pretty much the exact opposite. You're not asking
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 3: it anything. It's telling you now you know, and it's
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: a black you know, it's it's you know, it's whatever.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 3: I mean when I start tying that in. But then
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 3: this is the interesting thing too that I want to
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: throw in from like again bringing up this whole mirror study.
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 3: I don't think people realize this, and I really it
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 3: hit me and I should have thrown it in there,
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 3: but I didn't mention it. But when you start looking
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 3: at intentions, like I'll use this as an example of
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 3: magic and use this as an example in the episode.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 3: But I did touch on this study, like intentions, if
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: you're going into a magical act with intentions of what
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 3: you're doing. Now, when your brain can't decipher maybe what's
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 3: it's seeing or what it's looking at or what's going on.
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 3: You've already given the parameters of what it's going to
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 3: answer you with, So you know, like, are you already
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 3: giving yourself somewhat of the experience before it even happens,
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 3: because you're telling it in what system of it you
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 3: know it's gonna happen. And I don't know if people
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 3: understand where I'm getting at, but it's like you're already
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 3: kind of.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: Like with the.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 3: Scribe, if you're already have the reason why you're doing it.
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 3: The answer is going to be in there regardless, because
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 3: that's what you've already told your brain. That's the system
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 3: you're in. The answer is going to be in there
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 3: and not outside of it. That's fucking freaky because you
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 3: could be lying to yourself because you already went in
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 3: with a certain with a certain mindset and and intention. Yes,
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 3: and that's that's if.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: You think that the answer is coming from your consciousness
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: of your brain and not from an external source. Or also,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: let's say if it's coming from the subconscious, well, you
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: don't know what your subconscious knows.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 3: Subconsciousness, you become a mind fuck at this point now,
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: and you.
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: Tap into the whole collective consciousness thing and is it
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: really youre? Is it really your your thought that you're
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: pulling from you know?
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I didn't like to wrap it all up.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 3: It's like if our phone was controlled by AI, it's
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 3: already fucking goddess. Yeah.
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a high mind of possibilities.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's my brain is fried now. It's just remember.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: Roku's bassilist says, we all try right here, so we
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: get an a plus for that effort.
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, we did what we were supposed to do.
• 2:08:07
  Speaker 2: This is a great conversation.
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that was about the funk out man going
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 3: to be Sanra. Thank you for making it man, that
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 3: was awesome. Yeah, absolutely, he hell yeah, it was a
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 3: bless Yeah. Before we uh, mister Allen, before we wrap
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 3: it up, I'll let everybody else plug this stuff and
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 3: then you can plug your Judith the Loon. What's going on?
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 3: Please let everybody know where they can find your amazing work.
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 4: Thank you Nick for having me.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 4: It's always a pleasure to be on with.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 5: All the other occult rejects sorry cut rejects, and mister Allen,
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 5: thank you for a wonderful conversation.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 4: Actually, I think we could go for a couple of more.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 4: We're all exhausted. Yeah, so I hope we can have
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 4: another conversation again. And everyone else. You can find me
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 4: on YouTube, Spreaker and x as the Loon.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you very much for making it. And
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 3: then we got Ethan Indigo my man.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 7: What is going on, sir, well excellent, will be with everyone.
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 7: Thank you so much for sharing your I would say
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 7: it's more than armchair research that you assimilated, So thank
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 7: you so much for sharing all that. And Ethan Indigo
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 7: Smith on all the social media, and I'll be sharing
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 7: articles infrequently and writing and frequently.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 6: So appreciate everybody.
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, and Soner my man.
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know what's Yeah, Sondri Defoe. You can find
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: me at the Order of chaosmagic dot com. It's Magic
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: with the k the Order of Chaos on YouTube and
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: on Instagram, which is where I hang out. I don't
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: I don't really do the other social media. I can't
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: handle this too much. Twitter. Yeah, come find me on Instagram,
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: come find me on YouTube, or if you really want
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 2: to get into it again, come join us at the
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: Order of Chaos, a cult university. I give a live
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 2: lecture every week. On Wednesdays. We do lots of other
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: live events and we have an amazing community. Check out
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: my book. It's called Chaos Witchcraft. You can preorder it
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 2: on Amazon now.
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, thank you very much again for jumping in.
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 3: And Alan. Sorry, Please let everybody know what's up to
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 3: you when they can find find your book and anything
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 3: else you want to promote, please.
• 2:10:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, First, just thank you for having me, Nick, you
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 1: for having me. It was it was great to be here.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you actually accepted the package and the mail
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 1: and didn't think it was was trash.
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 3: No, no, not at all, but I appreciate it.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 7: No.
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not found anywhere. I'm a faceless just
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: fart in the wind. I'm just I'm writing books and
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: voice in my opinion. I'm on Amazon. You can find it.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: It's Project Charcoal, the Hidden Cabala Current of the Wiscon Valley.
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: The other one's Project Read Infamous Esoteric Reality, and they're
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: both on Amazon. And Alan Wagner I don't have a Twitter,
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: I don't have anything. If you want to email me,
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: it's the Project book series at gmail dot com. Uh,
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: that's really it. That's that's all I use for anything.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: So anybody wants to be in contact, if you want
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: to have me back, feel free. I'll gladly chat and
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: go for hours. So and I definitely think I'm gonna
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: have to contact you about joining your your thing there
• 2:11:24
  Speaker 1: for the the occult, uh, the society there for your
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: for your your teachings and stuff. I hadn't I hadn't
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 1: really heard too much about it before now, so definitely
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: if you can't email me some stuff, because I'd love
• 2:11:40
  Speaker 1: to hook up with you and Ethan, you too, feel free.
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: It was great to meet all of you. It was great.
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 1: I'd love to stay in contact.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll shoot him message and uh and
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: Judith and and you know, look hanging out with you guys,
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: So thank you very much for having me.
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That was some really good, some deep shit. Man. Fuck.
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's a lot different now, that's for sure.
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 3: I hope you guys mentioned it.
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: I know we're getting done, but I gotta say one
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: more thing. And you know, we just went through this
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: monumental like not once in a lifetime, but every you know,
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: I guess once in a lifetime transition of your honest
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: out of the sign of Taurus and in the Gemini. Right,
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 2: So Your Honest, which is the planet of disruption and
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 2: chaos and disorder, was like hanging out in Taurus for
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 2: the last eight years, seven and a half years, messing
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 2: with materials, you know, our material well being, which is Taurus.
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: And now it's in the moving into Gemini, which is
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: tech and communication, right, which going to be deeply involved
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: with AI. So the next eight years we've got Your
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 2: Honest and Gemini. It's gonna be very interesting.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: And yeah, see that's the kind of stuff that, like
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 1: we had said, these are the areas where I think
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: many people don't realize that if you look at this
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: and connected to about maybe three or four different other
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: things that all correspond with that same happening, you start
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: to see a pattern arise where in astrology and through
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: mysticism and magic, it definitely paints a different picture than
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: just giving you recipes and now we're the best place
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: to get you, you know, movie tickets. Sorry, it's it's
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: a different system. So I love I love that whole
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: just moving into like I don't know anything about astrology,
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 1: so that's that's great that you you were evily able
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: to put that together. So awesome.
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 3: Wild Man definitely definitely. Well, thank you all again. That
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 3: was again, that was an awesome show. It was a
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 3: great discussion. It was really weird and wild, and I
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 3: appreciate everybody in the chat. That's what's up. I saw
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of people from the beginning to the end.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 3: That's that's why we go live. I like doing it.
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 3: I love seeing all that. And uh, until the next one, everybody,
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 3: be well.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 8: Later, close your words, look into the darkness, find the
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 8: believe at the start, focus on.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: And it be called the eclipse. I don't feel that
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 1: the show will be done.
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 8: It does
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: You sh