Latest / Follow the Leighder / A Federal Prosecutor on Corruption in Oklahoma | Nick Coffey
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- Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, howdy folks and welcome back to another episode of Follow the Leader. I'm your host, Leigh Larson, and from Oklahoma, I bring to you my friend, Nick Coffey. Nick, welcome to the studio. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Thank you Lee very much for having me. This is the first time that I've been on a Montana podcast. So it's quite the honor. Thank you for having me. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Absolutely, absolutely. Folks, Nick Coffey is running for attorney general down in Oklahoma. He was a federal prosecutor for years after studying law at OU. And funny enough, y'all will appreciate this, my boyfriend knew Nick through rush, fraternity rush at OU. They didn't go the same fraternity, but when my boyfriend saw that he was running, he was like, I know that guy. He's running for office. And I looked into his campaign and I thought, man, this is a great campaign. Y'all know that I've I've made some comments about Ryan Walters, Christian nationalism, and then of course went to seminary in Tulsa and was like, I've got to hear from Nick. This is a great story. So Nick, welcome again. Tell us, you're a fifth generation Oklahoma boy. You're running for office. And of course you did your career and all your studies in Oklahoma. I mean, you are Oklahoma through and through. Why, why? Have you raised your hand to run for office as a Democrat for Attorney General in Oklahoma? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: I think a lot of reasons, but the biggest thing is, you know, until September, right, I was just a normal guy going... to work. was a federal prosecutor. was there for over seven years in the U.S. Attorney's Office in Oklahoma City working drug and money laundering cases. I was doing the job every day, just waking up and going to work. And like a lot of Oklahomans, I'm frustrated with where our state is. You know, it just doesn't seem like there's anybody in office, one, that's holding other elected officials accountable when they mess up. And two, no one, it just strikes me that our state leaders aren't really fighting for ordinary Oklahomans. They claim to be grassroots. They claim to work for the people, but nothing they're doing suggests to me they're actually working to make normal Oklahomans' lives better. ⁓ look, you cannot just... And so, you know, given my sort of background and experience, my appreciation for the rule of law, having spent many years as a federal prosecutor, I thought, you know, now is the time. I can't just criticize. I've got to get off the bench and actually run for something. And it's important, right, for a lot of Oklahomans that it's important for them to see that anybody can run for office. You don't have to be extraordinarily wealthy and you don't have to be a member of the political elite. And when we had people in office that understand the struggle We're going to be better off as a state for it, I promise you. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, you worked in federal prosecution for several years, I think almost like at least seven. But what kind of cases did you see or did you prosecute? I know that your campaign is really big on corruption. How does that overlap with your experience as a federal prosecutor? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Okay. So the kinds of cases I did were, they were the long-term, you know, drug and money laundering investigation. So I guess let me back up. When I got to the US Attorney's Office, like anybody that arrives to the office, I was the youngest federal prosecutor in the of Oklahoma at the time. I think I got there when I was 27 years old. And look, like any job, I worked my way up. And so I started with some more basic gun case, firearms cases, white collar crimes, check fraud, things like that, postal fraud. fraud. And then eventually I worked my way up to doing the biggest drug and money laundering cases in the state, which really entailed working with DEA and FBI and Homeland Security working at cases that involve national drug trafficking organizations, oftentimes these more organizations based in ⁓ Mexico, but they were operating here in ⁓ Oklahoma City. And so really, you know, I did not do political corruption cases at the Department of Justice in ⁓ We could probably talk a while about ⁓ this, ⁓ Lee, but I feel like perhaps my office and other offices, DOJ offices around the country aren't prioritizing political corruption like they should be. ⁓ But I guess where they overlap is, every day was holding people accountable in federal court. But it just seemed to me like our state leaders have no sense of accountability. Nobody is holding them accountable oftentimes because they're actually concerned about the consequences. And so for me, just seemed like an entirely, it seemed like a double standard. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought up. you know, working drug and money laundering, particularly working with cartels, because you wrote an article ⁓ not too long ago about ICE not being transparent, but how that's not unprecedented. Folks, it's on the Oklahoman if you are interested in going down that rabbit hole. But can you talk about some of the issues you're seeing with ICE and DHS, either across the country or in Oklahoma that are giving you pause for concern. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: I think the biggest thing is that Oklahomans and Americans just want accountability out of their law enforcement officers. And when I talk about there being two standards of justice, that means that law enforcement officials, when they mess up, are held accountable, just like politicians, when they mess up, when they make mistakes, are held accountable. so, I mean, look, there isn't – I'm sure you're – the viewers can – probably predict that the first problem we're seeing is that we have two American citizens that were shot in the streets. And I don't think anybody years ago thought that this would have come or months ago would have thought that this was going to come to fruition. And the frustrating thing, I shouldn't say frustrating, but you know, I think a lot of people wondered what if anything can... state officials could a state attorney general do if something like that were to happen in my community? And in writing that op-ed, I just laid out basically, look, this idea that somehow federal officials are immune from... accountability when you have something like the Renee Good or the Alex Prede shooting. That's not true. There is a legal process, but it's going to require the leadership of state officials in Minnesota and elsewhere if something else occurs that are willing to hold those officials accountable. And long story short, essentially, if ICE wants to claim that they're immune, they're going to have to prove that they were the officers were acting within the scope of their authority and that the use of force was not acceptable. Everybody has seen the videos. I was a prosecutor. I had to prove my case in court every day. ⁓ I dealt with facts and given the facts we see on video, that's not going to be an easy case to make if you're eyes. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Oh, and you're right. Yeah. And so many people watch that in horror. And then of course, I was out somewhere publicly the other day and folks on the other side of it were just completely, Alex Pretty shouldn't even have been there and just like all of this stuff. And I was like, we are really in a terrible place in this country to have such widely different view on the same video. Well, and that's also the other thing too, when we look at things like ICE being up north or going after some of these cities, ⁓ where as they could go to Texas, they could go to Florida, they could go to New Mexico or Arizona, where there are probably a lot, not probably, but there are a significant more folks that may or may not have quote legal status. How would or how is these deportations and this policy affecting Montana work? I'm sorry, not Montana, Oklahoma. workforce. Is it affecting permits and ⁓ farming? What's going on there? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: No, I definitely I've heard from folks it's affecting ⁓ farming and it's certainly impacting local businesses. I mean, so I can't get any better than than this. I mean, this this story about to tell you I've got a I've got a family friend that owns a restaurant and ⁓ you know, I my understanding talking to my friend is that he you know, he I met his kitchen. admit his kitchen staff. And so I'd make comments. Obviously, when Trump got elected, I asked him if he was concerned about ⁓ any of the staff and their legal status. And he said, look, ⁓ they've showed me paperwork. I don't have any way to verify if it's accurate, but they've showed me paperwork. I think they're here legally and besides. You know, they're not going to be, they're not going to be quote unquote, for those that are listening, I'm putting my hands up in the air with making quote. They're not going to be looking for guys like I think it's named Sammy. Well, several months go by and obviously the immigration policy of the Trump administration ramps into full force. And I asked my family friend, you know, if Sammy was to work and he said, no, I mean, I haven't seen him, but he has not come back to work and I do not know where he is. And the presumption, right, was that he was deported. And I guess the point is that no one thinks that they're coming for the person that is... cleaning their home or working in their ⁓ restaurant or working on their construction project at their home. But I think Americans are waking up to find that that is the place. That is exactly what's happening. And so ⁓ it's impacting everything you mentioned, Lee, in terms of how your home is maintained, whether local businesses can run, whether projects are getting done. on time. Leigh/@followtheleighder: ⁓ and it's in it's a Oklahoma for folks who may know that history, Oklahoma is very much driven by oil. ⁓ It was really a barren state. You could do farming there for sure, but ⁓ what's underneath the soil is what makes Oklahoma run. ⁓ there's a lot of money behind that oil, and it's also very much tied to a lot of religious organizations. ⁓ Maybe not tied directly, but but associated, ⁓ there is a concern for folks with the Johnson Amendment. Are you familiar, have been following the news with the Johnson Amendment? Okay, so I don't know if I wanna bring this up now, because I might butcher it, because I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak, I'm a theologian. But essentially the Johnson Amendment is what protects houses of worship, 501C3s and... Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Okay. Mm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: political campaigns and I think is, is Trump is looking to remove that hide, that Johnson amendment to make church campaign contributions even darker. Not that there was even really a church campaign. You couldn't because houses of worship can't be packs necessarily, but that's what the Johnson amendment could do is, is essentially turn every congregation into a micro pack. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And that's, it's a, there's so much money, dark money that is out there that I know that you're familiar with in corruption. How have you seen that play out, say with like Ryan Walters? One of, I know you've written several articles or have talked quite a bit about Ryan Walters and corruption. It's a big mess that has been in Oklahoma. For those who may be unfamiliar, he was the state superintendent of schools. Correct, right? State, yeah, that was his title. Education. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Yes, the superintendent of education with the official title statewide, statewide elected office. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, please, can you tell us how, he's no longer with the state. He's now moved on to be a private CEO for a teacher union busting group. So he's super fun. He's a super fun, super fun guy. ⁓ Can you talk a little bit about Ryan Walters and then explain the nightmare that has gone for Oklahomans down there? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Yeah, and I guess, you you led by kind of the link between Ryan Walters and corruption, right? And I guess, guess what if, you know, he goes and works for a, here's the most basic example of corruption when it comes to Ryan Walters, the biggest picture, if you will. You know, he resigns his position as state superintendent of education, go work for a teacher union busting group. And, Leigh/@followtheleighder: ⁓ the Johnson amendment. Yeah. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: You know, it was clear based on the decisions he was making because those decisions were very consistent with the group that he ended up to go work for. He wasn't looking out for students. He wasn't doing his job as state superintendent. He was auditioning for a job for several years while he was state superintendent. I consider that, you know, corruption is not just, Lee, when you, you know, someone slides a bag of $50,000 and a Kava bag or a. fast food bag to somebody, It is betraying the voters and making decisions based on ulterior motives, motives such as your donors or what you think your next employment will be. I think all of that is corruption. Now, as far as the story of Ryan Walters, mean, yes, he resigned as state superintendent to go take another job. His time was highly controversial for violating several state laws that we can dig into. But the saddest thing, I think, is that there were people on both sides of the political aisle that had had it up to here with Ryan. Walters. ⁓ He might have been a Republican, but there were a lot of Republicans that weren't very happy with Ryan Walters for politicizing their schools and frankly making ⁓ Oklahoma, know, putting landing Oklahoma on the national news for some of the outrageous things that he was doing. And despite so many citizens having a problem with what he was doing in office, Oklahomans never got the opportunity to show him the door. Never. And the sadder thing is that not a single state elected official did anything to push back against Ryan Walters, really when you look at it. ⁓ A lot of these folks are running for governor right now. And I think it's pretty clear that they were afraid to take any action speaking out against Walters or any legal action that they had the authority to take because they were concerned that it would hurt them in ⁓ their race for governor. And so I think it's a sad state on Oklahoma's political leadership that no one had the political courage to show Ryan Walters the door. I they could have brought impeachment proceedings. They didn't have to be a criminal act. They never did. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I think that's a great point when you talk about accountability. Accountability is not just because it's ethics, which it is. It's the ethics, it's the consequence, it is holding people accountable to harms they cause to the community. But for us, it's healing, it's closure. We needed to show him the door, that's what I'm hearing from you, and we didn't get that. He actually made a huge mess and then got a pay boost. it's enraging. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. That's fair. Leigh/@followtheleighder: You're like, how could you do this? And like you said, it seems very steamrolled too. ⁓ And like you said, a lot of Republicans not being in line with it either, ⁓ that there is a, I guess maybe a fracturing too on the Republican side of what MAGA is doing and where this is heading. And then also what like, I don't know, more moderate Republicans may think or. ⁓ Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: So I was looking at Ryan Walters. He did the Trump Bible was one of those. Correct. He was, don't know, folks, if you all remember about a year or two ago, I got the time right now had to be within the last year. Right. Was a really big part of getting that Trump gilded Bible into Oklahoma schools. And are they still in the schools or whatever came from that? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and Leigh/@followtheleighder: Push. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: I don't think they're still in the schools. my understanding is he had used X portion, tens of thousands of dollars, basically what he could, because of the authority vested in him as state superintendent, he had an X amount of dollars. It was in the tens of thousands to order these Bibles. I think he did do that. but a larger order was essentially tied up because he didn't have the authority to do it. There was litigation over that for a while. I think that's been abandoned. I think that that's been abandoned. With Ryan Walter's departure, they're not still trying ⁓ to do it. Obviously, there weren't enough Bibles purchased to put them in every classroom, but my understanding is those have been removed by the ⁓ interim state superintendent. Oklahoma is... unfortunately not moving forward with that. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, well it's just a mess. And it was just like you said, it's very unfair that someone else came in, steamrolled, gave negative publicity to Oklahoma schools and then just got a promotion out of it. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Exactly. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Because one of your policies, your priorities on your website, and you said this a few different ways so far, but this lack of, not even accountability and justice, but the rules apply for others but not for them. Like as long as they keep saying, as long as they, ⁓ how do I, like, like. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. There are two standards of justice. it seems like if you look at the past, one of the reasons I wanted to get into this race is because I want to talk about things that no other person running for office has talked about. want Oklahomans, when Oklahomans say we don't have a corruption problem, it's hard for me to blame them because it's not as if these stories are in the paper every single day. There might be a day of coverage on it and then it just fades from memory. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah, thank you. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: view it as one of my roles in this race to remind Oklahomans of the blatant corruption that's occurring so that they can make decisions accordingly at the polls. There's just been, know, Oklahoma over the last six years has seen, you know, Obviously, each case varies, but it is a mix of violations of transparency laws, violations of ethics rules, violations of civil and criminal statutes. And there are either severely limited consequences, very light consequences for the public official involved, or no consequence. at all. I think, I mean, it's just dangerously because whenever the voter does see that this is occurring, that a public official broke the law and he's just getting a slap on the wrist, I think it breeds apathy. I think it breeds apathy in our politics and people think, well, why do I even need to go to the polls? Nothing's going to change. And when people get in the office and they grift and they make money, no one's going to hold them accountable anyway. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Right. No, and I think that's ⁓ that apathy or actively continuing to support. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: A good example, I just read a book about a woman who spent two years in Louisiana in one of the poorest counties interviewing, why do you vote Republican if you live in a very poor county, lots of environmental pollution, and a significant number of people on welfare too in this county. So she was like, how do you hate the government so much? And it was because it was like, they're like, well, yeah, the corruption is so terrible. The government. and all their, you know, the government's not actually doing anything to help me and people are taking advantage of welfare, therefore, it's like this whole apathy, it's corrupt, it's bad, so I want none of it and I also don't want to take accountability to like take action, study it, you know. Democracy is so vigilant. And it's like, it's a real thing and... Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: ⁓ It was a really powerful perspective she brought when, like you said, when things are so corrupt or when things are so bad that people continue to vote for smaller government even though the government's not actually getting smaller, it's just getting more corrupt. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: So what was her tag? mean, was she asked about, you know, what do you want us to do about corruption in the state of Louisiana or in local government? Was she asked about that? Leigh/@followtheleighder: No, her point, her book was, she's a sociologist out of Berkeley and was trying to figure out why do poor whites vote over and over and over for Republicans. And... ⁓ to them and it's like anything else. It's a completely different way of looking at the world. A lot of it has to do with honor and Christian moral code and feeling, A, like the Democrats aren't helpful with that. Okay. ⁓ But that Republican, that these big industries that are moving to their states like oil or AI data center or whatever that's coming. They're the ones that are giving them jobs even if there are no environmental policies to protect them from the sicknesses from the jobs. ⁓ it's... No, correct. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. I'm not sure the AI Center is going to providing a lot of jobs there. There might be a construction job involved. No, mean, is one of the, yeah, this is one of the, know, there's so much, and this is part of my campaign, but there's so much corporate abuse going on in the state of Oklahoma. And, you know, I just got done. You know, lot ⁓ of folks aren't aware of this, but on your utility bill, there is a charge for a few dollars, I depending on your utility, your natural gas and your electricity bill, there's a special charge each month. And if you add up all those charges among the citizens of Oklahoma, over the next two decades, it's gonna be about $5 billion. And... What are these charges from? Well, they're from a really bad winter storm we had in Oklahoma in 2021. And the utility companies, they say, were forced to go by natural gas, which was used to heat homes and to generate electricity during the storm at astronomical prices. And the corporation commission let them get away with this and one dissenting commissioner and there's still litigation over this I mean they didn't even have you know the utility companies said that it was billions in cost but they never even did an actual audit I mean imagine that they didn't do an audit and have a licensed CPA come in and verify the costs And you know this corporation commissioner that the descending corporation commissioner was obviously you know not happy with this and it's called this the biggest fleecing. of the rate payer in the history of the state. This is an individual respected across the state. served 36 years on the Corporation Commission. And when I talk about corporate abuse, like Exhibit A right there, and most Oklahomans have no idea that these utility companies are taking advantage of them in this way, but frankly, the Corporation Commission in Oklahoma is just completely bought and paid for by the utilities. that the average Oklahoman didn't find out about it. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And is that OGNE, the, the utility? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: It was for these bond costs, were about two points. What they said is, these utilities together said it was about 2.8 or 9 billion in costs. And then actually over time, interest and all these other things are baked in. I there are a lot of people with their hands in the pot here. It's going be about $5 billion of the course of 2025 years. so the original cost though, there were three primary utility providers. There was an electricity provider or PSO, OG &E like you mentioned, and then Oklahoma ONG, Oklahoma Natural Gas. But yes, these are the corporations that are fleecing the Oklahoma rate payer and the average Oklahoma has no idea. And the attorney generally, there was a Supreme Court case back in right after this. And granted, they weren't arguing, the case was not over whether the payments were fair. It was just over whether the mechanism that the legislature said that these bonds could be issued by. Because the legislature had to say, OK, you've got all these billions. How are the utility companies, frankly, the people that donate to our campaigns, how are they going to make their money back? And so they came up with a mechanism to do that. And so the Supreme Court case was over the whether the mechanism was legal constitutionally but The Supreme Court told the state's attorney general back in 2021, it's not the current attorney general, but before that, ordered him to intervene, to give your opinion on what's going on here. And the AG declined. And one of the, I believe, one of the concurring justices basically said that the only person that can represent the Oklahoma rate payer is the attorney general. And the attorney general has abandoned the very people he's supposed to represent. I mean, imagine that. You're supposed to be the attorney for the people. and you entirely abandon your statutory duty to enter an appearance before the Supreme Court to explain whether this is a fair process or not. It's crazy. It's crazy. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. And it's, I'm like sitting here like getting more more mad. I'm like, yeah, you're right. Because you talk about that $5 billion utility bill, surcharge fleecing. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: ⁓ Oklahoma city. like I said, my, my boyfriend's from there really fun, ⁓ town, like a lot of great food. And, I know that that whole brick town area and a couple other places in, okay. See we're from the maps tax program. are you, okay. do you want me to explain or do you, do you want me to, I can't, it doesn't matter. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Yes. ⁓ sure, so the maps program is, ⁓ it was a city sales tax really passed in the wake of... the 1995 bombing in Oklahoma City. you had, you had really, I mean, it really is how far Oklahoma City has come. I mean, it, you know, like Lee, like you say, new restaurants and bars and entertainment venues popping up every year. But all of that is because of a city sales tax that Oklahoma City passed to really, frankly, rejuvenate a city that was on its knees after the bombing. And the city has been remade and, you know, good, you know, people when they evaluate Oklahoma's progress, they always inevitably group in how Oklahoma City and Tulsa are doing. But I always like to remind folks that a lot of the progress those cities have made are because the citizens themselves, such as through the maps tax, have invested in themselves. You know, to the extent that those cities have moved forward, I wouldn't really say it's because of state leadership. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And that's exactly what was my point was ⁓ you have state leadership that is all game to do this very corrupt $5 billion utility scheme. And then it's the people that are rebuilding Tulsa and Oklahoma City. While it seems like the leaders just knock it down. Yeah. Well, so. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: And yes, a generous philanthropist, frankly. Leigh/@followtheleighder: You did a lot with, and we talked about this earlier, with your drug cartel and money laundering. You're keeping families safe in Oklahoma. What do you think are some of the biggest harms to Oklahoma families from the state side of it? How? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Aside from, so aside from the fact that even if you go talk to business leaders in Oklahoma and members of the chambers of commerce, they tell you that the biggest thing holding Oklahoma back in terms of attracting new businesses are the state of its schools. Aside from that, ⁓ know, ⁓ we have a high level of violent crime in Oklahoma. have a high level addiction and substance abuse. We have highlights rates of recidivism. have, you know, documented many, many, many documented instances of civil rights violations in our jails and our department of. ⁓ corrections. ⁓ You know, and I think while all this is happening, we also have, I think, ⁓ online gaming companies, gaming platforms ⁓ that are continuing to put our kids at risk while they're online. So there's no shortage, I think, threats that Oklahoma families face. you know, when I think about what I want to do for Oklahoma's kids, I think, number one, make sure that there's not another Ryan Walters, if anyone in the mold as Ryan Walters emerges again that wants to politicize our schools. It is the job of the Attorney General to step in to make sure that every child is entitled ⁓ to an educational curriculum that has not been politicized, that prepares them for high school and for college. ⁓ That's the first thing. And then the second thing is, there was actually a, this is, ⁓ This is very topical. saw this morning on the news there was a there's a New Mexico jury that has sided with the New Mexico Attorney General's office and finding ⁓ Metta Facebook and Instagram liable for not having proper safeguards in place for kids online. such that they were exposed to dangerous individuals, predators, frankly, online. And so when I think about that activity, when I think about Roblox is a company that's gotten some news, but hadn't been sued yet by Oklahoma, those are exactly the types of cases I want to pursue because these giant corporations, they are profiting at the expense of our kids. Safety and a lot of times you've got to state that I mean why the state attorney general here in Oklahoma has not sued yet. He could be investigating, but I just know I want to make it. I would make it a priority on ⁓ on day one to get that case brought as quickly as possible. ⁓ Leigh/@followtheleighder: The other thing that I think is, you talked about corporate abuse and thank you for talking about kids and education, which you, because that's on the list of questions too, is Oklahoma education. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Yeah, it is the biggest thing holding Oklahoma back. It really is. Leigh/@followtheleighder: and it really is and it would be how do I want to say because it's not a it's not a cure-all But it is one pathway that significantly, improving that will have massive ⁓ positive outcomes in other areas too. It's such a direct pipeline to success education. And that's kind of when you were saying the corporate abuse, you know, you have, and we're seeing it here in Montana, I know it's really lots of places where more conservative states, red states will use a lot of tax incentives Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: to bring industries in. They'll lower tax rates. They'll bring in industries and then those industries will also hire and maybe they're not paying well either and those employees are on subsidies somehow, SNAP, Medicaid, something. And so you've got industries that are like triple dipping in the tax code and in terms of, they're paying such little Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: taxes, know, it then then their employees are also on tax subsidies and it becomes this corporate welfare. ⁓ ultimately it leads to, I mean, like I've seen, it can very quickly, this corporate corruption coming into states can make those states into third world countries very quickly just by strong arming environmental regulations, not paying employees adequately, et cetera. And it's alarming. ⁓ Because that's what I want for for Oklahomans or for any Americans I want you to go to work be paid a fair wage and to breathe the air when you walk home, right? That's like ⁓ Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Right. Simple things in life that we all want and we shall be entitled to. We live in the richest country in the world. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I in the world and yet we are polluting our states and backyards like it doesn't matter. ⁓ And again, not even necessarily the pollution, which is a whole thing, but ⁓ really that corporate double or triple dipping, that corruption, that the tax incentives. And I understand wanting to bring businesses in, we're not, the businesses we're bringing in aren't doing the kind of productivity that really they could be, especially with taxes. And I think that's really concerning for a lot of folks. And I don't know if you've heard that from other constituents, on the road talking about corporate welfare or like wages but it's but it's really frustrating. Go ahead. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: I think the biggest two things that you hear regularly are concerns over, well, as far as corporate abuse, hear about, I mean, every now and then people do ask about the winter bonds that we talked about. They talk about data centers and they talk about what's going on with the insurance industry in Oklahoma. We have the highest homeowner insurance premiums in the country. And, you know, the insurance commissioner says that it's because of ⁓ the weather. But the reality is that, you know, Texas, Kansas also have hail, they also have tornadoes, they have flooding. But it's Oklahoma, despite having some of the more affordable homes in the country have the highest homeowner insurance premium, and it's like double or something like that. It's not, I'm not saying by it's like, you 20 bucks, it is it's darn near double, I think. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Right. Yeah, and they're citing like tornadoes and yeah, and other places have tornadoes and hail too. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Yeah, they're citing natural, yeah, they're citing, they're citing weather. But I mean, the problem is no, no attorney general has ever made the insurance commissioner actually get on the record in court and show. his numbers show basically the underlying analysis of the market for why these costs are fair and reasonable and competitive because the market has to be competitive in Oklahoma that's in the statute. ⁓ Again, because I think every attorney general we've had as of late I think is pretty afraid of going up against the insurance industry. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, even like I've been thinking about the corruption and I'm to be careful when I say this, but I think one of my friends is deeply involved within the indigenous community in Oklahoma. And he was upset because he feels that the support that Mark Wayne Mullins is receiving from the Cherokee Nation is tied to ⁓ corporate promises that Mark Wayne will somehow kick back to the Cherokee Nation about building like steel Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Okay. Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: manufacturing on reservation lands. again, now we're talking about foreign tribal manufacturing corporations and like that's a whole thing of ⁓ corporations going across the border to like Texas, Mexico, Texas, Arizona border. ⁓ And, and I was really like, I didn't even think about that side of it of different allegiances to that. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: and course. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I don't know. I'm trying to think of how I want to word this question, but it was a really profound, yeah, ⁓ Mark, Wayne, and Mullen also as a corrupt leader in the DHS, which I already had bad vibes with him. I know he did a lot of what, insider trading and stuff like that too. ⁓ Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: ⁓ yeah, there's a, there's, I saw a post recently that we're documenting his five most suspicious, ⁓ stock trades, you know, I mean, why this is legal for anyone in the executive branch or Congress to trade stocks. It's crazy. And it's a pretty bipartisan issue. Most Americans agree. And, the problem is who's making the laws, the people that are benefiting from this. Leigh/@followtheleighder: you Right. Or like even like, call she or whatever, all these like, polymarket and these political betting sites. I'm like, how is that even? How can you bet on this and then turn around and go write the legislation? So, like, ⁓ really quite scary. ⁓ Can you talk about one of your cases ⁓ in which you felt profoundly moved or I know you've already you mentioned some already. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Thank you. Yeah. Leigh/@followtheleighder: but corporate corruption in Oklahoma, especially while you were working as a federal prosecutor, even what you came across in law school. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Well, sorry, a case involving involving corporate corruption, because actually, you know, I didn't do I mean, typically, typically corporate corruption is not a federal charge, if will. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Yeah. No, no, No, no, no. I just mean like from your research, from your experience when other issues, I know you had just talked about the utilities. I brought up Markway and Mullen and how that could tie into industries and land and tax incentives. Have you seen this in the private prison ⁓ area in Oklahoma and what does that look like? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. So Oklahoma had private prisons, my you Because I think they were unhappy with the product that they were they were getting the state actually bought back the last private prison pretty recently ⁓ And now they're all under state control, but I mean look the State Department of Corrections is not They're certainly not immune from any criticism, so let me give you a couple examples Leigh/@followtheleighder: fascinating. Wow. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: There was a director of the Department of Corrections, I'm not sure what they call it in other states, but Department of Corrections in Oklahoma, it's just the state prison system. And the head of the state prison system went and secured a million dollar AI contract for the state prison system. for reasons I can explain in a second, that contract was needed for a variety of reasons. It was to prevent contraband from getting into the prison and make sure that the prisons were actually safer. The criticism I have is not there. The criticism I have is that after the head of the state prison system went and the director went and secured this ⁓ contract with the AI company for the state, Not, I think maybe six months later, give or take a couple months, he goes and works for the same AI company that he just gave a contract to. I mean, this is against the revolving door statute in Oklahoma. There is a statute on the books for good reasons that says you can't do a contract with a company while you're in the state, while you're employed by the state and then go work for this company. Because again, the idea is that you're not securing that contract for the benefit of the state, you're securing it so that you can go get a job later on. And not a single person in, think, I wanna be careful how I word this. ⁓ You know, this is a member of the governor's cabinet. There is not a single word from. anyone in the governor's cabinet about how this violates the revolving door statute. There was no investigation opened by the attorney general's office. I mean, there several individuals running for governor, some of whom did serve in the governor's or I guess one of whom served in the governor's cabinet. There's an attorney general candidate that served in the governor's or serving in the governor's candidate. Not a single person is mentioning this. ⁓ And it's just ludicrous. It's just insane to me that we have blatant corruption like that going on. And it's not the focus of anyone on the campaign. trail. ⁓ The second point I'll make when it comes to Department of Corrections is that we have one of the worst drug trafficking problems in our state prisons in the nation. I saw this when I was a federal prosecutor and you're probably like they're in prison how in the world are they trafficking drugs? You hear down at the legislature they rail against Mexico for flooding our streets with cocaine, fentanyl, and methamphetamine. And there is truth to that in the sense that all these drugs are coming from, most of them are coming from Mexico, particularly in this part of the country because obviously of Oklahoma's proximity to Texas and New Mexico border states. But what the legislature and all these people that wanna make the news banging the table and talking about Mexico aren't telling you is that in Oklahoma, The people that are buying those drugs, biggest customers of these cartel groups are white prison gangs. They are, these are groups I prosecuted in the US attorney's office. They are the United Aryan Brotherhood and they are the Irish mob. using cell phones, they are, they direct these mass this massive drug trafficking from prison, directing their couriers on the outside to pick up drugs from ⁓ the couriers. ⁓ and then coordinating for how that money to be distributed to their, to their family. Right? So it's, it's probably, look, you're in prison. You still might want to take care of your parents. and you use drug trafficking to do that. And so when I think about the addiction facing this state, a lot of it could be cleaned up if we could get prison drug trafficking under control, since all of the drug trafficking runs more or less through the state prison system. But the legislature, because they don't want to upset the Department of Corrections, they don't want to make the governor's cabinet pick look bad, just refrain from talking about this. But meanwhile, if you go look, if you search, you know, the department of DOJ, Oklahoma City, Irish Mob, or UAB, prison gangs. You're gonna see many, many press releases and even some articles ⁓ about how this is a huge problem in Oklahoma. Leigh/@followtheleighder: That is wild. Because like you said, that's not the messaging. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: me. No, you should just see the juries faced in a trial several years ago where we showed them the inside the prison cell. I think it was I think they were down in McAllister, Oklahoma, one of the larger McAllister lot in Oklahoma, one of the larger prison facilities in the state. And we showed the cell of these members of the Irish mob and the jurors faces whenever I pulled up that exhibit showing what the inside of their cell looked like. I mean, there's just no order there. The walls are graffiti. there's trash and food everywhere. mean there is no order at all within these state prisons. It's essentially summer camp for these mobsters. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Right, and whether it's the mobsters not facing real accountability in the prison system or even the attendance, the prison guards working and facilitating that and then not, right, right, and it just becomes this corrupt, depraved, there's no integrity, there's no dignity, there's no... Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. who are also sometimes part of the problem. Yeah. There's no integrity in the real sad part is that we're doing nothing to rehabilitate people for when they get out of they get out of prison. This is a this is a we are not playing the game very well. We're not we You know, it's almost a deal. It's a deal we have with the citizenry of Oklahoma. Yes, you did the crime, you're gonna do the time, but we're gonna do what we can to get you ready to be contributing members of society so that you never come back. And Oklahoma's just failing. I think we're failing across the board when it comes to that final task. Leigh/@followtheleighder: And it's a damn shame because Oklahomans are some really good people. Like I really enjoy my, my time in Oklahoma and people are some of the kindest in the world. And ⁓ like you said, the corrupt, it's, and then you don't feel like you can do anything. There's a powerlessness to it. Then there's like shame on the people. It's like, it all snowballs. Like leadership really does start at the top. And I'm so thankful that you're raising your hand to run. I think it's very courageous. I think it's bold. I think it's necessary. ⁓ Nick, I, Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Mm-hmm. Leigh/@followtheleighder: I really, really am thankful to talk to you and I know that we're getting close to the end. Can you share with the listeners where they can go to follow or donate or learn more about you? Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: Sure, coffeeforok.com. That's C-O-F-F-E-Y-F-O-R-OK.com. That's our website. Please check it out. And then we're, of course, on every social media platform. And so one of the ways we're obviously trying to get our message out when talking about the corruption going on in Oklahoma, corporate abuse, and just frankly, the civil rights violations that we're seeing across the country are occurring is through social media. please, yeah, please check us out. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Well, Nick, thank you so much again for taking the time out of your busy schedule. I know that you're still, you've got a lot going on running a campaign saving Oklahoma. It's a lot. So thank you. Nick Coffey, OK Atty Gen Candidate: It was a pleasure. Thank you very much for having me. Leigh/@followtheleighder: Absolutely. Alrighty folks, that was another episode of Follow the Leader. I'm your host, Leigh Larson. Thank you for hanging out with me this afternoon. What did you think? Make sure you let me know in the comments. And you know the drill, like, follow, subscribe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But do that. Do that. Help me. Help Nick Coffee. Let's get his name out there. And ⁓ folks, I will see y'all next time on Follow the Leader. See ya. Bye. Stop.