Latest / Normally / Normally Podcast: Young Conservatives, Fading Obama Influence, and the End of a Trend

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Normally Podcast: Young Conservatives, Fading Obama Influence, and the End of a Trend · Normally

0:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, we I'm back on normally.
0:09
Speaker 2: The sure with normal one it takes fore the news.
0:11
Speaker 2: It's weird. I'm Mary Catherine Ham and I'm Carol Markowitz.
0:15
Speaker 2: It is very hard, Mary Catherine to get back into
0:17
Speaker 2: regular news. All I want to do is like watch
0:20
Speaker 2: hostage videos and read stories and hear about families being reunited.
0:28
Speaker 2: But like the you know, the world moves on and
0:30
Speaker 2: that's a good thing, but I'm sort of unprepared for it.
0:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm the same way.
0:35
Speaker 3: It's so rare that you get a just unvarnished good
0:39
Speaker 3: story like twenty live hostages coming home. And we've you
0:43
Speaker 3: and I have been through the Bengaian Airport. We've seen
0:45
Speaker 3: those posters on the sides of the moving side way there.
0:50
Speaker 3: We've seen people tear down posters all over the US,
0:53
Speaker 3: and it is gratifying to see people.
0:56
Speaker 1: By the way.
0:56
Speaker 3: A programming note, if you want to listen to me
0:58
Speaker 3: on the column with Matt Welch and Camille and Michael
1:04
Speaker 3: one hand, you could do so, and we talk about
1:06
Speaker 3: this as well, so you.
1:07
Speaker 1: Can get more of that. Excellent.
1:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love those guys. All right, let's get into it,
1:13
Speaker 2: young Republicans. What are you people doing on a giant
1:18
Speaker 2: group text saying dumb shit?
1:21
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
1:23
Speaker 3: I mean, so this is, as I said, this is
1:25
Speaker 3: an example of how you edge lord yourself into disgrace,
1:29
Speaker 3: which is this thing where you know, we've left the
1:32
Speaker 3: time of the PC woke flag throwing, right, which is
1:36
Speaker 3: in many cases good for discourse because you're not afraid
1:38
Speaker 3: to say some things right, and then you go to
1:42
Speaker 3: a point where the pendulum swings where you're just trying
1:44
Speaker 3: to shock people as much as possible.
1:47
Speaker 2: Right. And I didn't think that everything was the same.
1:50
Speaker 2: I mean, people say things on private group chats that
1:53
Speaker 2: they might not say publicly. I actually don't think that
1:56
Speaker 2: you should. I think that you should be who you
1:58
Speaker 2: are on group chats who you are in the real
2:01
Speaker 2: world as well. But there is this story. It's in Politico.
2:05
Speaker 2: It's about young Republicans in various places saying terrible things
2:10
Speaker 2: on a group chat. Now, you know, I have to
2:13
Speaker 2: say that my first instinct I read the story before
2:17
Speaker 2: it became like a story story, and I felt it
2:21
Speaker 2: was a little bit ridiculous because in the piece, of course,
2:25
Speaker 2: who do they blame this rhetoric on? They say, the
2:28
Speaker 2: private rhetoric isn't happening in a vacuum. It comes amid
2:31
Speaker 2: a widespread coarsening of the broader political discourse, and as
2:35
Speaker 2: incendiary and racially offensive tropes from the right become increasingly
2:40
Speaker 2: common in public debate. Last month, Trump posted an AI
2:43
Speaker 2: generated video that showed House Minority Leader what Kim Jeffreys
2:46
Speaker 2: in a sombrero besides Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, whose
2:50
Speaker 2: fabricated remarks were about trading free healthcare for immigrant votes,
2:54
Speaker 2: a false. Long running GOP trope, the sombrero meme has
2:57
Speaker 2: been widely used to mock Democrats as the government and
3:00
Speaker 2: shut down. Where's on?
3:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a.
3:02
Speaker 2: Direct line from the sombrero AI picture to saying Hitler
3:07
Speaker 2: is good and using the N word like spare me.
3:11
Speaker 4: You know.
3:11
Speaker 3: So this is the double standard, right is that is
3:14
Speaker 3: that when these private chats, which by the way, are
3:17
Speaker 3: by adults. I don't want to minimize it by saying
3:21
Speaker 3: they're kit, they're young Republicans, but they're adults.
3:24
Speaker 2: Sure from young Republicans can be as old as like
3:27
Speaker 2: thirty nine, I believe, yes.
3:28
Speaker 3: Yes, And also I should note importantly that the young
3:31
Speaker 3: Republicans National immediately condemns this in a statement and asked
3:35
Speaker 3: everyone to resign from any position they held in their
3:38
Speaker 3: local or state chapters. So that is good because imposing
3:42
Speaker 3: that consequence will deter such behavior in the future. But
3:46
Speaker 3: the double standard is this applies to all Republicans, and
3:50
Speaker 3: every Republican lawmaker will be asked about it, of course,
3:53
Speaker 3: versus by the way, these guys aren't running for office.
3:56
Speaker 2: Yep, there's nobody's really versus.
4:00
Speaker 1: Like I agree, they should not be in leadership positions.
4:02
Speaker 3: We should not ratherdom have those versus the Democrat ag
4:07
Speaker 3: nominee in Virginia. By the way, this story is designed
4:10
Speaker 3: to counter the damage caused by that story, however.
4:15
Speaker 1: And this is a distinction worth making.
4:17
Speaker 3: He's running for office right currently, and almost everyone I
4:22
Speaker 3: think everyone in the Democratic Party has declined to ask
4:25
Speaker 3: for him.
4:26
Speaker 1: To step aside, so I think they've I think this.
4:29
Speaker 3: Story actually doesn't reflect well because it is it is
4:33
Speaker 3: revealing the double standard where Republicans walked away from these
4:36
Speaker 3: guys and they haven't walked away from him.
4:39
Speaker 2: Absolutely. But you know what they're going to say is
4:41
Speaker 2: well jd Vance, He tweeted, this is far worse than
4:44
Speaker 2: anything said in a college group chat referring to the
4:46
Speaker 2: Jay Jones tweets and the guy who said it could
4:49
Speaker 2: become the Age of Virginia. I refuse to join the
4:51
Speaker 2: pearl clutching when powerful people call for political violence. I
4:55
Speaker 2: understand this response. This is not my response. I am
4:58
Speaker 2: disgusted by those texts, and I think people should be
5:02
Speaker 2: held accountable. When people were celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, I
5:06
Speaker 2: thought to myself, I don't want this person to be
5:08
Speaker 2: my dentist or don't be teacher, right. I feel the
5:13
Speaker 2: same way about the people on these texts, and I
5:16
Speaker 2: don't care that we're not supposed to criticize our own side.
5:19
Speaker 2: I've said again and again that Republicans conservatives do criticize
5:23
Speaker 2: their own side all the time, and this is just
5:25
Speaker 2: more evidence of that, where we do say I don't
5:29
Speaker 2: stand with these people, and I think that's not a
5:32
Speaker 2: bad thing. I think I get JD's impulse to say
5:37
Speaker 2: I'm not throwing these people under the bus. You guys
5:39
Speaker 2: can't throw j Jones under the bus. And he's right,
5:42
Speaker 2: but that's not my impulse.
5:44
Speaker 3: I have to Yeah, the argument from him is we
5:50
Speaker 3: don't just take unilateral ls while they take no l's
5:54
Speaker 3: over this guy exactly, how much of an.
5:56
Speaker 2: L is it? Like?
5:57
Speaker 1: Are these people valuable?
5:58
Speaker 3: Are they people who can entice new people into the party?
6:01
Speaker 1: Right? If you are engaged in a.
6:04
Speaker 3: Private chat that is nonetheless full of a lot of
6:07
Speaker 3: people who you might, by the way, have bitter political
6:10
Speaker 3: rivalries and jockeying for political power positions in the future,
6:14
Speaker 3: and you're doing this, you have shown yourself to have
6:17
Speaker 3: a certain amount of bad judgment that will not allow
6:20
Speaker 3: you to rise and shouldn't allow you to rise. Right, So,
6:23
Speaker 3: I think I understand where people come from when they
6:27
Speaker 3: say that, because.
6:29
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, they're right. They're not gonna jettison J. Jones.
6:32
Speaker 1: They're going to tweet through it, They're going to campaign
6:34
Speaker 1: through it.
6:35
Speaker 3: And the people who don't disavowed J. Jones will then
6:41
Speaker 3: tell you, and who, by the way, did zero stories
6:44
Speaker 3: on the Israel Palestine deal accomplished by President Trump.
6:48
Speaker 1: Will then tell you, this is the most important.
6:50
Speaker 3: Story in the world for like four days, and we
6:54
Speaker 3: don't believe you. Yeah yeah, So, by the way, I
6:56
Speaker 3: should note in the Virginia ag race that Jason Miaris,
7:01
Speaker 3: who is the Republican running against j Jones has put
7:03
Speaker 3: out a pretty clever ad that basically says, like she says,
7:07
Speaker 3: you can make your own choice, maybe you should make
7:10
Speaker 3: your own choice.
7:11
Speaker 1: Right, So, because she said.
7:12
Speaker 3: In the debate, like everyone else Lamberger, excuse me, Abigails Spamberger,
7:18
Speaker 3: the Democrat running for governor, in not disavowing j Jones
7:21
Speaker 3: basically said well, everyone's running there and own individual race.
7:25
Speaker 3: So he turned that into an ad and said it's
7:27
Speaker 3: an individual race, take a look at me. So I
7:30
Speaker 3: think that was pretty clever of him, and they're likely
7:34
Speaker 3: people in Virginia who would undervote or switch sides for that.
7:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am just I don't know. I find that
7:44
Speaker 2: this it's both sides of this right where I don't
7:48
Speaker 2: like at all any of this commentary is being tied
7:51
Speaker 2: to the right, and I just refuse to participate, you know,
7:55
Speaker 2: or believe any of that. But also this idea that
7:58
Speaker 2: this is my side and I need to quiet just
8:01
Speaker 2: is appalling to me. And why it's so bad the
8:04
Speaker 2: Spamburger won't denounce him. The whole your side thing it
8:09
Speaker 2: shouldn't apply to I want children to die. And you
8:14
Speaker 2: know what the Young Republicans said in their chats is
8:17
Speaker 2: nowhere near that, if you want to be real about it.
8:20
Speaker 2: And I still don't think that I need more people.
8:23
Speaker 3: Nowhere near legally actionable threats, which is actually what Jones
8:28
Speaker 3: got very close to. Yeah, this was this was excuse
8:32
Speaker 3: my language, ship posting gas chamber stuff, stuff about African Americans, watermelons,
8:39
Speaker 3: like just disgusting, designed to discussed people, right, and yeah,
8:46
Speaker 3: like I don't.
8:47
Speaker 1: Think you're bringing a bunch of people into this party
8:49
Speaker 1: like that.
8:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bonchi read spend political capital on you. Oh yes, exactly,
8:55
Speaker 2: so Bonchie read state I'd account I like very much.
8:57
Speaker 2: On X said Groyper, Losers are not my side. If
9:01
Speaker 2: I want to call them losers, I'll call them losers
9:03
Speaker 2: and it will not cost us a single election. But
9:06
Speaker 2: I'm also not going to waste time on total nobodies
9:09
Speaker 2: who have been forced to resign and who will never
9:11
Speaker 2: be heard from again. That's where I am on this
9:13
Speaker 2: same Yeah, you pointed out that the Young Republicans issued
9:17
Speaker 2: a comment and they said, we are appalled by the
9:19
Speaker 2: vile and inexcusable language revealed in the political Art article
9:22
Speaker 2: published today. Behavior is disgraceful. Onbecoming stands in direct opposition
9:27
Speaker 2: to the movement. All involved must resign immediately. I mean,
9:32
Speaker 2: what more could they say.
9:35
Speaker 3: Over to you, Virginia Democrats, National Democrats. It will be
9:39
Speaker 3: interesting to see how many Republicans in the halls of
9:42
Speaker 3: Congress are asked about this versus Democrats being asked about
9:45
Speaker 3: j Jones, right, even though he's running for office.
9:48
Speaker 2: You know, as we're going to air, there's a story
9:50
Speaker 2: in Pirate Wires which I haven't read yet, but there's
9:53
Speaker 2: a long tweet about it. Heather Cox Richardson is apparently
9:57
Speaker 2: this big leftist boys, they.
9:59
Speaker 1: Point out, is the biggest substack that exists.
10:02
Speaker 2: Right, more subscribers than Jimmy Kimmel has. And they say
10:06
Speaker 2: every night she tells her two point seven million followers
10:08
Speaker 2: that America is sliding into authoritarianism, Trump is a dictator whatever.
10:13
Speaker 2: But they also say when it was revealed that Charlie
10:16
Speaker 2: Kirk's assassin was not the right wing extremist she claimed
10:18
Speaker 2: he was, she never corrected the record. When Biden's debate
10:21
Speaker 2: performance was so bad the New York Times called for
10:23
Speaker 2: him to drop out, Richardson claimed he thoroughly proved his confidence.
10:27
Speaker 2: When an assassin murdered Minnesota lawmakers. It was horrific. But
10:30
Speaker 2: when Luigi Mangioni assassinated United Healthcare CEO, it was a
10:34
Speaker 2: moral protest. And so spare me the handwringing and the
10:40
Speaker 2: pearl clutching, because this is the most famous substack of
10:45
Speaker 2: all time.
10:46
Speaker 3: So their disinformation is good, Carol, Right, I know that's
10:50
Speaker 3: the difference.
10:51
Speaker 1: All right.
10:51
Speaker 3: We will be back on normally in a moment with
10:55
Speaker 3: some stories about Obama. How's he doing these days?
10:57
Speaker 2: Poorly?
10:58
Speaker 1: He's doing poorly. All right.
11:03
Speaker 3: We are back on normally with a little bit about
11:06
Speaker 3: Barack Obama and the new Barack Obama, who is mom
11:09
Speaker 3: Donnie in New York running for the mayor's slot. But first,
11:13
Speaker 3: the original Barack Obama, who appeared on Mark Maren's podcast
11:18
Speaker 3: this week. Maren is drawing to a close his fifteen
11:21
Speaker 3: year run of podcasting. He is a comedian but also
11:25
Speaker 3: a political commentator, and.
11:28
Speaker 1: It was a really big deal.
11:29
Speaker 3: I remember when Obama appeared on his podcast in twenty
11:32
Speaker 3: fifteen ish, because that was like the.
11:34
Speaker 1: New Frontiers, new things.
11:37
Speaker 3: So he's capping it off as well, and he had
11:40
Speaker 3: some thoughts about what has come to pass since he
11:43
Speaker 3: left office.
11:44
Speaker 1: Here's let's listen to.
11:44
Speaker 4: A little bit. I mean, what was unusual for me
11:47
Speaker 4: was obviously a lot of what I represented. Yeah, a
11:55
Speaker 4: lot of what Michelle and I had tried to project
11:59
Speaker 4: the values are thinking about America. My successor seemed to
12:10
Speaker 4: represent the opposite, right not seemed didn't. And so I
12:17
Speaker 4: think there is a lot of anger, a lot of sadness,
12:22
Speaker 4: some fear among a big chunk of the country.
12:26
Speaker 1: He seems frustrated, Carol.
12:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't like that anybody else got to be
12:30
Speaker 2: president after him.
12:34
Speaker 3: I am sort of amazed by how little people listen
12:37
Speaker 3: to him now, and I think that's of his own doing.
12:41
Speaker 3: He made himself irrelevant. I think he did a lot
12:44
Speaker 3: of damage while he was president and since he's been president,
12:47
Speaker 3: which I want to I want to congratulate myself on
12:49
Speaker 3: this one. I said while he was running for president
12:52
Speaker 3: and while he was president. This man wants to be
12:54
Speaker 3: an ex president. He wants to he wants to live well,
12:58
Speaker 3: he wants to give spe he wants to be congratulated for,
13:02
Speaker 3: like I don't know, observing elections in other countries and
13:05
Speaker 3: lecturing the United States of America and hang out in
13:08
Speaker 3: Marsa's vineyard. That's what he wants to do, he's going
13:10
Speaker 3: to be great at it, and that part he has embraced.
13:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, I guess he has some behind
13:19
Speaker 2: the scenes roles at the you know, in the Democratic Party,
13:23
Speaker 2: but he has been so largely irrelevant and I can't,
13:27
Speaker 2: you know, when we look back at his presidency, other
13:30
Speaker 2: than Obamacare, which is largely a disaster, what are his accomplishments?
13:34
Speaker 2: And you know, people at the time even said, oh,
13:37
Speaker 2: but he's such a good speaker. He's such a good orator.
13:40
Speaker 2: And I'm always like, named something he said, Name something
13:42
Speaker 2: he said other than if you like your doctor, you
13:46
Speaker 2: can keep your doctor, which turned out to be a lie.
13:48
Speaker 2: So I'm thoroughly unimpressed with this guy. I nowhere near
13:53
Speaker 2: as impressed as he is with himself. And it's just
13:57
Speaker 2: funny because what did he think was going to happen?
14:00
Speaker 2: And after he left the presidency, what did he think
14:02
Speaker 2: the next Republican was going to do? He led in
14:05
Speaker 2: such a way that was so abrasive to the opposite
14:09
Speaker 2: side from him when he said all I need is
14:12
Speaker 2: a phone and a pen. What did he think everybody
14:14
Speaker 2: was going to do after him? Right?
14:17
Speaker 3: I think he fools himself into thinking it wasn't divisive,
14:22
Speaker 3: Like I think he's still the illusion that he was
14:25
Speaker 3: a uniting force while he was, like, you know, calling
14:29
Speaker 3: out the Supreme Court justices sitting in front of him
14:31
Speaker 3: at a State of the Union address, while he was
14:34
Speaker 3: calling out Republican congressional leaders whose votes he needed on
14:39
Speaker 3: various things while they're sitting on stage with him.
14:44
Speaker 1: He wasn't unifying.
14:46
Speaker 3: And I don't think beyond giving speeches, he really was
14:51
Speaker 3: understood what the job was.
14:53
Speaker 1: And as a result, the.
14:55
Speaker 3: Thing that he passed, Obamacare was not executed. Well, it
15:00
Speaker 3: doesn't live up to its promises. You can still do
15:03
Speaker 3: polling where people are like, oh, I guess that free
15:05
Speaker 3: thing you gave us is fine, but if you start
15:07
Speaker 3: like picking in the details, people are like, now, this
15:10
Speaker 3: didn't give me what I wanted. He I feel like
15:13
Speaker 3: he makes himself irrelevant. Every statement is like what world
15:17
Speaker 3: are you living in? And this felt very much like
15:19
Speaker 3: are you're living in twenty fifteen? This is just a
15:22
Speaker 3: replay of twenty fifteen and you're trying to grock what
15:25
Speaker 3: happened and how you possibly could be losing this race
15:29
Speaker 3: or Hillary losing this race.
15:30
Speaker 2: But you know, right, yeah, same thing speaking of irrelevant.
15:34
Speaker 2: The Joe Biden people have been working over time to
15:38
Speaker 2: say that it was actually Joe Biden's peace deal that
15:43
Speaker 2: the Trump administration enacted in the Middle East, but Joe
15:46
Speaker 2: Biden like totally just didn't want to do it. That's
15:48
Speaker 2: really what happened here. He was doing other things and
15:52
Speaker 2: you know, his peace deal. It was just it was
15:56
Speaker 2: really it was Trump's fault. It was Trumpett Yahoo's fault
15:58
Speaker 2: that it got together.
16:00
Speaker 1: No, no right that you know.
16:03
Speaker 2: This guy Keith Edwards. I don't know who this is,
16:05
Speaker 2: but apparently a lot of people do because they were like,
16:08
Speaker 2: why are you giving this person attention? And I said, oh,
16:10
Speaker 2: I don't know who this is, but he tweeted he
16:12
Speaker 2: had a very big sweet Joe Biden had a peace
16:14
Speaker 2: deal in place, but then net Nyaho and Trump met
16:17
Speaker 2: in mar A Lago. I decided that keeping the war
16:19
Speaker 2: going would benefit them both. Ten months later, this signing
16:22
Speaker 2: the exact deal Biden brokeer. I was on with your bestie,
16:26
Speaker 2: Guy Benton yesterday, and we talked about how some of
16:29
Speaker 2: the things that have happened since Joe Biden was president, like,
16:33
Speaker 2: for example, the Twelve Day War with Iran and the
16:37
Speaker 2: tech inside cutter and things like that actually led to
16:42
Speaker 2: the peace deal, and Joe Biden would have never been
16:46
Speaker 2: able to get that done. You know, tell this to
16:49
Speaker 2: enorm me in your life and they're going to respond
16:51
Speaker 2: as the normies in my life did with Joe Biden
16:53
Speaker 2: was a potato. He could have never done this.
16:56
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, it's just obviously incorrect. I would also add
17:00
Speaker 3: this important detail and pardon me on pronunciation. But Laha Harkov,
17:05
Speaker 3: who is a journalist in Israel, she puts the order
17:09
Speaker 3: of operations into perspective, which is the Biden deal for
17:12
Speaker 3: Israel to fully withdraw was for Israel to fully withdraw
17:15
Speaker 3: from Gaza and only then for all of the hospitals
17:19
Speaker 3: to be released. Hamas rejected it. Israel is still deployed
17:22
Speaker 3: in most of Gaza, she notes, and we have all
17:24
Speaker 3: the living hostages at home.
17:27
Speaker 2: That is a better, huge difference.
17:29
Speaker 1: That is not the same deal. That is a deal
17:32
Speaker 1: that Israel goes.
17:33
Speaker 3: Why would we do that, right, because there isn't a
17:36
Speaker 3: guarantee and it goes really badly.
17:38
Speaker 1: And by the way, you.
17:39
Speaker 3: Get all of those horrific, tortuous ceremonies of handing over
17:43
Speaker 3: because the Red Cross ain't gonna do nothing to stop them.
17:46
Speaker 3: By the way, can we just once again say the
17:49
Speaker 3: Red Cross is trash for the way it acted the
17:51
Speaker 3: entire time, unbelievable.
17:53
Speaker 2: More pointless than Europe and that's really saying something.
17:56
Speaker 3: Okay, one more thing in this section, I want to
17:59
Speaker 3: add the new Obama's rise. So this is u Zoron Mumdani,
18:03
Speaker 3: who's running for mayor in New York. He is a
18:06
Speaker 3: head by double digits over Andrew Como. A lot of
18:09
Speaker 3: that has to do with the fact that Democrats just
18:11
Speaker 3: couldn't muster anyone better than Andrew. I would have been
18:14
Speaker 3: an Adams Gallay choice.
18:16
Speaker 2: So fast. Yeah, but me, you and like eight percent
18:19
Speaker 2: of New Yorkers.
18:20
Speaker 1: I know, I know. So that's happening.
18:24
Speaker 3: And the New York Times did a sixteen page profile
18:27
Speaker 3: on him, and I read, I want to say, like
18:31
Speaker 3: ninety percent of it. I have a few more paragraphs
18:33
Speaker 3: to go. But there is not one dang interesting revealing,
18:39
Speaker 3: like negative moment in this from the perspective of the writer, Like, right,
18:44
Speaker 3: you do a sixteen page profile on someone you didn't
18:47
Speaker 3: find anything you might want to just like criticize a
18:51
Speaker 3: tiny bit that's that's a problem there, Obama ask yes,
18:57
Speaker 3: And the question that keeps coming to me as I'm
18:59
Speaker 3: reading through the profile is like, yes, so he has
19:02
Speaker 3: all these ideas, but he doesn't know how.
19:04
Speaker 1: To execute them, is what you're saying?
19:05
Speaker 2: Any of them?
19:06
Speaker 3: Any of them and a lot of them defy economics.
19:09
Speaker 3: So you're going to end up on the other side
19:10
Speaker 3: of this, which the Democratic Socialists of America who endorsed
19:13
Speaker 3: him have already pointed out where they're like, oh, what
19:16
Speaker 3: if he wins and then he tries to enact these
19:19
Speaker 3: things and a he doesn't have the power to or
19:21
Speaker 3: be he can't, and then we have to pay the price, right,
19:24
Speaker 3: And it's yeah.
19:25
Speaker 1: Maybe think about it an issue? Yeah, it gonna be
19:27
Speaker 1: an issue. The guy with a smile doesn't always get
19:29
Speaker 1: it done.
19:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I you know, look, I the other concern
19:34
Speaker 2: is when he inevitably can't get any of his policy's
19:36
Speaker 2: done or they're a total failure. If he ends up
19:39
Speaker 2: opening one, you know, grocery store run by the government
19:43
Speaker 2: and it is the failure it's been in other places,
19:47
Speaker 2: what does he fill kind of the gap with? And
19:50
Speaker 2: I think when he is running for UNRA over the weekend,
19:54
Speaker 2: I think a lot of Jews should think about the
19:56
Speaker 2: fact that it will be you know, maybe riling up
20:00
Speaker 2: people against Jews, and that's a very common strategy through
20:03
Speaker 2: history among failed politicians, which he inevitably will be.
20:08
Speaker 3: I would say that there's one sentence in this that
20:10
Speaker 3: is accidentally revealing that suggests that in which he the
20:15
Speaker 3: writer contends that this is the one issue he will
20:19
Speaker 3: not compromise on, and it is Israel Palestine, even though
20:22
Speaker 3: like he's running an affordability campaign, but this is the
20:26
Speaker 3: one issue where he can't even say, yeah, globalize, the
20:31
Speaker 3: entifata is bad.
20:31
Speaker 1: People shouldn't say that, right.
20:33
Speaker 2: Yep, He's going to lean right into it, and there's
20:35
Speaker 2: a reason for that. So we'll be right back with
20:38
Speaker 2: more on normally and is the transcantagion finally breaking among kids?
20:44
Speaker 2: We'll see be right back. We are back on normally
20:50
Speaker 2: where a few days ago, a researcher posted a graph
20:56
Speaker 2: that seemed very promising. Eric Kaufman is a professor of politics,
21:01
Speaker 2: and he looked at some studies out of andover Brown
21:06
Speaker 2: and from the fire Org. Part of it is that
21:11
Speaker 2: there's a collapse in people who say they are non binary,
21:16
Speaker 2: and that's great, because non binary is not a thing,
21:19
Speaker 2: and the fact that it's spiked so high in twenty
21:23
Speaker 2: twenty three, it's about fifty percent down from that the
21:27
Speaker 2: peak numbers. That's fantastic. Of course, the fact that anybody
21:31
Speaker 2: still thinks that they're neither gender is ridiculous, but we'll
21:36
Speaker 2: take it for now.
21:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's it seems like a small victory at least.
21:41
Speaker 3: And my thought would be that this suggests that the
21:45
Speaker 3: pipeline to trans identity is closing. Yeah, that the social
21:50
Speaker 3: contagion and those early stages where people are using this
21:54
Speaker 3: as sort of like a like an intersectional politics pass.
21:59
Speaker 1: Right.
22:00
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm just like a suburban white girl, but I'm
22:03
Speaker 3: non binary. That is losing its cachet as it should,
22:09
Speaker 3: and that fewer people in the future will be drawn
22:11
Speaker 3: into actual bad, bad situations.
22:16
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's the easiest one, right If I
22:19
Speaker 2: always say, if I were a teenager right now and
22:21
Speaker 2: I had the kind of power that comes with declaring
22:24
Speaker 2: yourself non binary and making up your pronouns every day
22:27
Speaker 2: and having every adult in your life follow it, I
22:29
Speaker 2: would one hundred percent be into it. So the easiest one,
22:33
Speaker 2: the one that you don't have to do anything is
22:35
Speaker 2: falling off, and that's great. He also says that non
22:39
Speaker 2: conforming sexual identity, queer questioning, et cetera. Is also in
22:43
Speaker 2: sharp decline. Gay and lesbian are stable, while heterosexual has
22:47
Speaker 2: rebounded by around ten points since twenty twenty three. Yeah,
22:51
Speaker 2: it's the vibe shift, you know. But I when recording
22:56
Speaker 2: this as I'm writing the piece, so I think I
22:58
Speaker 2: have a piece, and then you're a post today on
23:00
Speaker 2: this how I don't actually think that the trans contagion
23:04
Speaker 2: is over, and I think we should be really careful
23:06
Speaker 2: about taking these stats to mean that. Part of what
23:11
Speaker 2: Eric says is he thinks that trans people would be
23:15
Speaker 2: more likely to say that they're non binary, and therefore
23:20
Speaker 2: the non binary numbers is declining means that trans is declining.
23:24
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I don't think so. I think
23:26
Speaker 2: when you're in the trans contagion, non binary means something
23:31
Speaker 2: very very specific to you, and you are absolutely not that,
23:34
Speaker 2: and your identity is so fixed in those words that
23:38
Speaker 2: I don't think a trans person would pick non binary.
23:40
Speaker 2: And that's what my column today and then New York
23:42
Speaker 2: Post will end up arguing.
23:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we should be wary about any of
23:46
Speaker 3: this stuff sort of falling off the cliff. I do
23:48
Speaker 3: think there's a vibe shift shift that you want to
23:50
Speaker 3: be careful about the data. And there's certainly people who
23:54
Speaker 3: are still very invested and now in creating more kids
24:01
Speaker 3: who can go into this pipeline. And I just the
24:05
Speaker 3: damage that has been done thus far is just shocking.
24:09
Speaker 3: And you know, I know when we were kids, the
24:12
Speaker 3: social contagion of the day. Neither of them good were cutting,
24:15
Speaker 3: an anorexia, and I would take those over this one.
24:19
Speaker 2: This one is, Yeah, this one seems a lot more permanent.
24:23
Speaker 2: Those were both terrible, obviously, but they were seemed more
24:27
Speaker 2: temporary than getting drugs and changing your well.
24:31
Speaker 3: And importantly, the most important thing about them is how
24:33
Speaker 3: we responded to them. Yeah they're bad, to them as
24:36
Speaker 3: if they were good and enlightened and a choice. We
24:40
Speaker 3: responded to them like, girl, you got to get yourself
24:42
Speaker 3: some therapy.
24:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you went to the therapist, it wasn't like, oh,
24:46
Speaker 2: this is good and I'm going to affirm this.
24:50
Speaker 3: You know.
24:50
Speaker 2: I think that that's a big part of all of this,
24:53
Speaker 2: that the affirming is what's driving this.
24:56
Speaker 1: Really.
24:57
Speaker 2: If you go to a therapist and you say I'm
24:59
Speaker 2: mixed up and I'm going used it. I think I'm
25:00
Speaker 2: the opposite gender, and your therapist says, no, that's good,
25:04
Speaker 2: you are that opposite gender. It leads you down a
25:08
Speaker 2: path that is hard to get off well.
25:10
Speaker 3: And we've talked about this before, and it concerns me
25:12
Speaker 3: for lots of kids. Is that this kind of affirmation
25:17
Speaker 3: and the need to get it out of some of
25:19
Speaker 3: these professional circles.
25:21
Speaker 1: It speaks to the need to get it out of
25:22
Speaker 1: these professional circles.
25:23
Speaker 3: Is if your kids do need some kind of therapy,
25:27
Speaker 3: you cannot be assured that that person isn't going to
25:31
Speaker 3: decide that your kid's issue is that they're actually in
25:35
Speaker 3: the wrong body. I would just like my kid to
25:38
Speaker 3: be able to talk about normal stuff.
25:40
Speaker 1: That'd be great.
25:41
Speaker 2: Absolutely well. Thank you for joining us on Normally. Normally
25:45
Speaker 2: airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you could subscribe anywhere you
25:48
Speaker 2: get your podcasts. Get in touch with us at normally
25:50
Speaker 2: theepod at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and when
25:53
Speaker 2: things get weird at normally