Latest / Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers / #58 Genesis: The Image of God

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#58 Genesis: The Image of God · Deep-Grace Diving with Tim Wright and Terey Summers

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Thank you.
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SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Deep Grace Diving Podcast.
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SPEAKER_01: My name is Tim Wright, along with Terry Summers and John Burgess.
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And we are recording this on a weekend where Israel and Tehran
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are at war,
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where a man shot and killed a couple people up in Minnesota in
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a politically
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SPEAKER_01: motivated shooting.
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SPEAKER_01: and you read stories like that,
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SPEAKER_01: and of course all the other stories we see,
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SPEAKER_01: and you ask the question,
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SPEAKER_01: how in the world can the Bible say we are created in the image of God,
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SPEAKER_01: and what does that mean?
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SPEAKER_01: Because if we're created in the image of God,
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SPEAKER_01: it certainly seems like the image of God is pretty violent.
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But the Bible has something very different to say to us about
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the beauty and the
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SPEAKER_01: sacredness of humankind,
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And of course,
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it's the ultimate story of,
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you know,
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being created full and then redemption.
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SPEAKER_01: We are in week two of a Bible study that we are doing on the gospel,
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SPEAKER_01: on the gospel,
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SPEAKER_01: on the book of Genesis,
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SPEAKER_01: the first book in the Bible.
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SPEAKER_01: And last week we looked at the first part of the first creation story.
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SPEAKER_01: There are actually two creation stories in the book of Genesis.
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Genesis chapter 1 through chapter 2 verse 3 and then the rest
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of chapter 2 is a
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SPEAKER_01: second creation story.
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SPEAKER_01: And we were looking at essentially how the story was written last week.
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SPEAKER_01: the way the author puts the story together,
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SPEAKER_01: the context of the story,
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SPEAKER_01: the background of the story,
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SPEAKER_01: to see that this story is written not about how God created the world,
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SPEAKER_01: but tells what God is like and who this God is.
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And if you didn't get a chance to listen to that,
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you'll want to go back and do so.
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to read Genesis chapter one that way saves us a lot of
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headaches from getting
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SPEAKER_01: involved in discussions about six days creation.
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SPEAKER_01: And was it 6,000 years ago?
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SPEAKER_01: Was it 4.5 billion years ago?
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SPEAKER_01: The Genesis one story isn't answering any of those questions.
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SPEAKER_01: It's focused on who is this God who created the world?
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SPEAKER_01: And we're going to take it now a step further.
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SPEAKER_01: We're going to finish out chapter one and go into chapter two,
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SPEAKER_01: verse three,
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SPEAKER_01: which is the end of the creation story.
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SPEAKER_01: We've got the rest of day six and then day seven to cover.
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SPEAKER_01: And this is the high point of creation.
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SPEAKER_01: Everything has been building to this moment.
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SPEAKER_01: And so Terry, with that in mind, we expect that sort of grand reading.
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SPEAKER_02: She's up to it.
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SPEAKER_00: I am ready.
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SPEAKER_02: Not even one bead of sweat on her forehead.
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SPEAKER_00: You ready?
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SPEAKER_00: Yep.
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SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
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SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
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SPEAKER_00: Then God said, let us make human beings in our image to be like us.
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SPEAKER_00: They will reign over the fish in the sea,
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SPEAKER_00: the birds in the sky,
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SPEAKER_00: the livestock,
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all the wild animals on the earth and the small animals that
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scurry along the
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SPEAKER_00: ground.
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SPEAKER_00: So God created human beings in his own image.
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SPEAKER_00: In the image of God, he created them.
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SPEAKER_00: Male and female, he created them.
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SPEAKER_00: Then God blessed them and said, be fruitful and multiply.
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SPEAKER_00: Fill the earth and govern it.
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SPEAKER_00: Rain over the fish in the sea,
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SPEAKER_00: the birds in the sky,
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SPEAKER_00: and all the animals that scurry along the ground.
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SPEAKER_00: And God said, look.
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I have given you every seed bearing plant throughout the earth
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and all the fruit
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SPEAKER_00: trees for your food.
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SPEAKER_00: And I have given every green plant as food for all the wild animals,
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SPEAKER_00: the birds in the sky and the small animals that scurry along the ground,
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SPEAKER_00: everything that has life.
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SPEAKER_00: And that is what happened.
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SPEAKER_00: Then God looked over all he had made and he saw
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SPEAKER_00: that it was very good.
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SPEAKER_00: And evening passed and morning came, making, marking the sixth day.
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So the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything in
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them was completed.
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On the seventh day,
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God had finished his work of creation,
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so he rested from all his work.
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And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy because it
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was the day when he
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SPEAKER_00: rested from all his work of creation.
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SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Terry.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm going to give you both a chance to kind of reflect on that.
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SPEAKER_01: I want to just make a point here about the Sabbath day,
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SPEAKER_01: because we're not going to spend a lot of time on it.
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SPEAKER_01: We're going to spend our time mainly on the creation of human beings.
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SPEAKER_01: But imagine being people who were enslaved for 400 some years,
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SPEAKER_01: you never ever get a day off until the day you die.
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SPEAKER_01: And along comes this God who,
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SPEAKER_01: God rests, and God says, I want you to take a day off as well.
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SPEAKER_01: It had to be an absolutely mind-blowing concept to them at that time,
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SPEAKER_01: because they'd never had a day off,
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and that this God would care enough about them to let them rest
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their bodies,
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SPEAKER_01: their minds,
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SPEAKER_01: and their souls.
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SPEAKER_01: Of course, Sabbaths are sort of a lost art in 2025.
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as many of us find ourselves sort of stuck on our media
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platforms and our phones
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SPEAKER_01: and our computers and so on.
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SPEAKER_01: But this thing of Sabbath is a radical,
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SPEAKER_01: radical concept in what is a radical first chapter in the Bible.
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And we talked about that last week,
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what God is like and so on and so forth.
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So that's just my little thing about the Sabbath and why it's
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so important in this
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SPEAKER_01: story,
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because the Hebrew slaves and slaves people would never have
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had a day off until
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SPEAKER_01: they were rescued.
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And God said,
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you're created in my image and you're going to get a day off.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Now.
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John,
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as you were sort of hearing Terry read for us,
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what thoughts came to mind?
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah, three thoughts, but I'll start with the most insightful one.
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SPEAKER_02: And that is verse 30.
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SPEAKER_02: I have given every green plant as food for the wild animals.
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I had never realized before that clearly kale and spinach were
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made for animals,
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not people.
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SPEAKER_01: That's a huge load off my mind.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you maybe missed a verse there.
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SPEAKER_01: That's a little bit of like a text proofing there.
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SPEAKER_01: Didn't God also say that all of that's for us as well?
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I think there's some room for debate,
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but we can move on to the next one.
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SPEAKER_01: And just,
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SPEAKER_01: John,
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SPEAKER_01: just so you know,
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there's nothing in that first passage there to suggest we
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should eat meat.
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SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling very hungry all of a sudden.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: John's chomping on his cheeseburger.
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SPEAKER_02: Then God said, let us make human beings in our image.
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SPEAKER_02: Yep.
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SPEAKER_02: So there's an hour there instead of my,
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which makes me feel like someone has joined the party that we
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weren't aware of.
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SPEAKER_02: Yep.
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SPEAKER_02: And then finally,
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uh it just reminds me he said like in the first one two two
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verses god said let us
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make human beings in our image then in verse 27 god created
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human beings in his
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image in the image of god he created them yes and i feel like
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when there's that
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kind of repetition that's written for me like john take notice
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of what i'm talking
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SPEAKER_02: about here because this is really important
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Let me just comment on a couple of those things.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we'll come back to them.
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A couple of weeks ago when you and I interviewed Daryl Potter
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and we talked a bit
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SPEAKER_01: about Hebrew poetry.
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This is an example of Hebrew poetry where Hebrew poetry doesn't
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rhyme words.
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Hebrew poetry gives a line and then it reaffirms the line by
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building on it.
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SPEAKER_01: It says the same thing, but adds something to it.
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SPEAKER_01: And what's really interesting,
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SPEAKER_01: God created humankind in God's image,
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SPEAKER_01: because we don't know if God's male or female,
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SPEAKER_01: God's God.
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SPEAKER_01: God created humankind in God's image.
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SPEAKER_01: In the image of God, God created them.
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SPEAKER_01: And then the next line in poetry teases out what them means.
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SPEAKER_01: Male and female, God created them.
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SPEAKER_01: And this is a radical, excuse me, a radical verse in Scripture.
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SPEAKER_01: In the very first book of the Bible,
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SPEAKER_01: God says men,
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SPEAKER_01: women,
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SPEAKER_01: males,
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SPEAKER_01: and females are both created in the image of God.
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SPEAKER_01: They are equal.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: As in equal.
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SPEAKER_01: And then the rest of the Bible struggles with that concept.
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SPEAKER_01: And here we are today in 2025,
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still having conversations about something the Bible settled
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thousands of years
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SPEAKER_01: ago.
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And the inequality we often see toward women is done in the
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name of religion and
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SPEAKER_01: oftentimes in the name of Christianity.
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SPEAKER_01: But it's not biblical.
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SPEAKER_01: The biblical model is image of God, God created them.
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SPEAKER_01: What does God mean by them?
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SPEAKER_01: Image of God, male and female.
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SPEAKER_01: Equal.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: So I'll get off the soapbox, but we're doing Bible study.
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SPEAKER_01: So it's right there.
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SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, there's some good things.
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SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about the us and the we's in just a moment.
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SPEAKER_01: Terry or John, was that all your three points?
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SPEAKER_02: That's it.
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SPEAKER_01: All right.
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SPEAKER_00: Terry.
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SPEAKER_00: No, my big one was the us and the we.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: So we're already right there.
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SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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No,
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this is all,
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like,
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I am now really riveted from some of the conversation we had.
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SPEAKER_00: Not that I wouldn't be.
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SPEAKER_00: That sounded bad.
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But from the conversation we had last week,
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I'm now looking at it quite differently.
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SPEAKER_00: Pastor Tim?
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SPEAKER_00: Or Tim White?
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SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
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SPEAKER_01: So here we go.
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SPEAKER_01: I'm still a pastor, just not working anymore.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay, I just wanted to be right.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: So remember, we said that this is not a literal...
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fact-based telling story this is a metaphorical story and we
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know that because of
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the way that the author uses the number seven throughout the
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writing of the story
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genesis chapter 1 verse 1 in hebrew seven words genesis chapter
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1 verse 2 in hebrew
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two sentences seven words seven days seven goods god 35 times
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which is five times
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SPEAKER_01: seven the earth 21 times which is three times seven
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SPEAKER_01: Genesis chapter 2,
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SPEAKER_01: verses 1 through 3,
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SPEAKER_01: which ends that creation story,
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SPEAKER_01: three verses of seven words.
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SPEAKER_01: So the writer is saying this is not a literal story.
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SPEAKER_01: The writer is saying this is a meaning story.
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SPEAKER_01: And by saying the number seven over and over again,
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SPEAKER_01: he's saying God creates what is good,
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SPEAKER_01: God creates what God intends to create,
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SPEAKER_01: and what God creates is fit for purpose.
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We saw last week that this story is told in opposition to the
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Babylonian story
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where the gods fight it out and the earth is created out of
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terror and out of
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SPEAKER_01: violence and out of murder.
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SPEAKER_01: This story is created out of the heart of God.
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The world's created out of the heart of God,
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and it's good,
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it's loving,
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it's caring.
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SPEAKER_01: You get this sense sort of...
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SPEAKER_01: a potter lovingly shaping and creating all of this.
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And you'll see that more in the second creation story where
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human beings are
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SPEAKER_01: created out of the dust of the earth.
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And then you get this high point of creation where human beings
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are created.
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SPEAKER_01: And again,
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SPEAKER_01: just in opposition to the other stories,
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SPEAKER_01: human beings in the Babylonian story,
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SPEAKER_01: for example,
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SPEAKER_01: were created to serve the gods.
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SPEAKER_01: Remember we said last episode that the gods of Babylon would get hungry.
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SPEAKER_01: They would get tired.
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SPEAKER_01: They'd get testy.
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SPEAKER_01: And so they created human beings to serve them and to get food for them.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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What you have here is human beings created in the image of God,
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and we'll talk more about that,
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SPEAKER_01: And rather than God saying,
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SPEAKER_01: now here's how you will take care of me,
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SPEAKER_01: it goes on to say,
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SPEAKER_01: this is how I'm going to care for you.
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I've given you all of these plants to eat from,
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all of this fruit to eat from.
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SPEAKER_01: This creation is for you to enjoy.
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SPEAKER_01: There are caveats to that.
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SPEAKER_01: We'll do it as stewards.
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SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about that as well.
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SPEAKER_01: But God created this world for us to enjoy as a gift to us.
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SPEAKER_01: And as we enjoy creation,
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God then enjoys us and takes great delight in us because we are
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the high point of
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SPEAKER_01: God's creation.
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And so this is a radically different take on human beings than
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what the other people
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SPEAKER_01: religions had at that time, and some still have to this day.
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SPEAKER_01: This is about people created in the very image of God.
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SPEAKER_01: Now,
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SPEAKER_01: we need to tease out what that means,
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SPEAKER_01: but this is saying something radical about God,
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SPEAKER_01: the way that God loves,
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SPEAKER_01: and why God created us.
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SPEAKER_01: And God created us as this loving creator, as a loving parent,
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SPEAKER_01: And,
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SPEAKER_01: you know,
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SPEAKER_01: as any parent would provide for his or her children,
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SPEAKER_01: so God provides for God's children in the creation of the world.
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SPEAKER_01: Yep.
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SPEAKER_00: Before we get too far, I just want to ask this.
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Is there any significance to the fact that the specifics of
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what he has provided
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SPEAKER_00: for us and also left to our care is repeated?
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SPEAKER_00: Because I got kind of tickled.
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I think it's charming,
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the little creatures that scurried across the ground.
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SPEAKER_00: But I mean, he says it at least three times, maybe four.
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SPEAKER_00: Is there any significance to that?
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SPEAKER_00: Or is that part of the poetry of it?
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SPEAKER_01: I think it's part of the poetry of it.
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SPEAKER_01: Again,
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SPEAKER_01: it's saying something,
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SPEAKER_01: it's saying it again a little bit differently,
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SPEAKER_01: a little bit again differently.
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SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like John said,
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SPEAKER_01: when I see something happen once,
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SPEAKER_01: two,
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SPEAKER_01: three times,
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SPEAKER_01: I want to pay attention to it.
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SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And so it's just a way for us to hear what God is saying.
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Yes,
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all of this was created for your pleasure,
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not for your abuse,
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by the way.
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But for you to steward over as I would because you are created
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in the image of God.
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And the image of God in part says something about our
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responsibility to the planet.
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SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And to the creatures.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Yep, okay.
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SPEAKER_01: So within the whole story again of Genesis chapter 1,
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SPEAKER_01: this creation story,
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SPEAKER_01: this is a story about God.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a story about a good God.
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SPEAKER_01: And this good God,
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who has so carefully fashioned the earth with love and
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compassion and care,
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now creates human beings to live in a unique relationship with
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God that God might
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just pour love onto us and then sort of set us free to enjoy
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the world as it's
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SPEAKER_01: meant to be enjoyed.
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and of course to do it within the context of loving the world
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the way that God does.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: And in the end rested from all his work.
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SPEAKER_01: Right.
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SPEAKER_02: And not needing rest,
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SPEAKER_02: but,
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but what Tim showing us that regular rest is good and healthy
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and a good example of
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SPEAKER_02: that.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And I, yes, I think that,
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SPEAKER_01: It's a great way to say,
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SPEAKER_01: look,
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SPEAKER_01: if rest is important for God and we are created in the image of God,
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SPEAKER_01: then rest is essential and important for us.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: And again, it's a radical concept.
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And,
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uh,
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you know,
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a lot of Americans would say,
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yeah,
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I don't ever really take a day off.
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SPEAKER_01: And even on my day off, I'm just so busy.
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SPEAKER_01: My mind is so caught up in other things.
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SPEAKER_01: And, and, um,
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SPEAKER_01: We're sort of on that treadmill, and I think God's saying, slow down.
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SPEAKER_01: You move too fast.
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SPEAKER_01: You've got to make the moment last.
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SPEAKER_01: Because I want you to feel groovy.
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SPEAKER_01: It's right there in Scripture, but in Hebrew, groovy doesn't come out.
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SPEAKER_02: You don't want to save that for the very end?
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SPEAKER_01: No.
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SPEAKER_01: No, get it in now.
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SPEAKER_01: Because by this point, people are clicking off.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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Especially now that you've affirmed that kale and spinach still
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on the menu.
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SPEAKER_01: Every day I've got that spinach in my smoothie.
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SPEAKER_02: We're just here to help.
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SPEAKER_02: Just provide a little clarification.
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SPEAKER_01: All right.
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SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about some of this.
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SPEAKER_01: Let us create humankind in our image.
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SPEAKER_01: What's going on here today?
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SPEAKER_01: the Christian interpretation is that God is speaking to the Trinity.
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God is speaking to Jesus and the Spirit and saying,
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let's create human being in our image.
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And part of what that could mean is that God lives in
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relationship with God,
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SPEAKER_01: however that looks,
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SPEAKER_01: Father,
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SPEAKER_01: Son,
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SPEAKER_01: and Spirit.
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SPEAKER_01: creator, savior, sanctifier.
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SPEAKER_01: They live in relationship.
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SPEAKER_01: They do the same work together, but in different ways.
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SPEAKER_01: And from a Christian perspective,
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you could say part of being created in the image of God is to
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live in relationship
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SPEAKER_01: with God and others.
19:33
But to impose a Christian interpretation on this story is not
19:40
the best starting
19:41
SPEAKER_01: point because this wasn't a Christian story.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: And remember, it wasn't written to us.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: It's written for us.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: They would have had no concept of Jesus at that point.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: They would have understood God's Spirit because it's there in verse 2.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: The Spirit of God was hovering over the deep.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: And they would have understood God is coming to them as Spirit.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: But they would have had no sense of Trinity.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: So that's not the best starting point.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: What they would have understood, probably...
20:16
SPEAKER_01: would be, in their minds, they're picturing a royal court.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: And they're picturing the pharaoh,
20:27
SPEAKER_01: they're picturing the emperor,
20:29
SPEAKER_01: they're picturing the king,
20:31
SPEAKER_01: whatever pictures in their mind,
20:34
SPEAKER_01: sitting on the throne,
20:36
SPEAKER_01: or picturing the queen sitting on the throne,
20:39
SPEAKER_01: and uses the royal we.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: So God here is pictured...
20:47
sort of as this benevolent ruler holding court with all the
20:53
angelic beings of
20:54
SPEAKER_01: heaven,
20:55
SPEAKER_01: whatever that looks like.
20:58
And God says,
21:00
let us,
21:01
speaking royal we know,
21:03
create,
21:04
make human beings in our image.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Or to translate, here's what I'm going to do next.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to make human beings in my image.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: And so the readers who originally read this,
21:21
SPEAKER_01: to whom it was told for the first time,
21:22
SPEAKER_01: would have pictured that kind of a royal court.
21:26
SPEAKER_01: Probably.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Not the Trinity.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: It's not wrong to look back and think Trinity,
21:32
but the better interpretation for purposes of just Genesis is
21:37
sort of this royal
21:37
SPEAKER_01: court image and the royal we.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Now,
21:44
SPEAKER_01: that also then helps us understand in some ways what image of God means.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: So if a king,
21:54
SPEAKER_01: we'll use king,
21:59
SPEAKER_01: wants to,
22:01
SPEAKER_01: in a sense,
22:04
SPEAKER_01: give his authority to someone to speak on the king's behalf,
22:12
SPEAKER_01: or to remind people under whose realm they live,
22:16
SPEAKER_01: he might set up an image like a statue of himself.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: And they would see that image and they would be reminded,
22:30
SPEAKER_01: oh yeah,
22:30
SPEAKER_01: this is the person who's in charge.
22:32
This image reflects the king and the king's values in the way
22:36
that the king rules.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: There's that sort of image.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Now,
22:42
SPEAKER_01: To be fair,
22:43
the Jewish people would have been a little hesitant about that
22:45
kind of language
22:47
SPEAKER_01: because you shouldn't have any images before you.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: But the metaphorical meaning would be that as human beings,
22:58
SPEAKER_01: we are the representatives of God to the rest of creation.
23:06
We are here to care for the world the way that God wants to
23:10
care for the world.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: We are here to love creation the way that God loves creation.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: We are his ambassadors is one way of understanding image of God.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: We represent God on the earth in the way that we interact with people.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Now,
23:27
SPEAKER_01: that's not to say we do it well,
23:29
SPEAKER_01: but that's what the original meaning has meant,
23:32
SPEAKER_01: that we represent God.
23:33
We reflect the rule and the passions of God when it comes to
23:38
God's creation.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:44
Another way of looking at it is that there's something unique
23:49
about the human being
23:52
SPEAKER_01: that is different from other parts of God's creation.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: And remember, God created these animals.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So God loves the animals as well.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: But there's something about human beings.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: We have the capacity for speech.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: We have the capacity for understanding.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: We have the capacity for self-action and self-reflection.
24:23
We have the capacity to live in relationship with each other
24:28
and build communities
24:30
SPEAKER_01: that are different from what animals do,
24:31
SPEAKER_01: although animals can build pretty interesting communities.
24:34
But we have a capacity to interact with each other that animals
24:38
don't have.
24:39
And we have a capacity to interact with God in the way that
24:43
animals don't.
24:45
That there's a relational aspect to us as human beings that's
24:51
different from all
24:52
SPEAKER_01: the other created animals.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: And so we relate to God differently.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: We, as the image of God, we have certain aspects of us that are God-like.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: We're not God, which we see in Genesis chapter 3.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: We're not God.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: But God has imbued us with critical thinking,
25:13
SPEAKER_01: wonder,
25:14
SPEAKER_01: language,
25:15
SPEAKER_01: reason,
25:16
SPEAKER_01: the ability to build cities,
25:20
SPEAKER_01: and so on and so forth.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: And that's in part what makes us image of God.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's a fairly big concept.
25:32
But I think the bottom line is to be image of God is that God
25:38
created us to live in
25:39
SPEAKER_01: relationship with us.
25:41
God created us in order to love on us so that we could then
25:44
love on creation and
25:45
SPEAKER_01: love on each other.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: And as the image of God...
25:52
We are called to live in this world as God's ambassadors to
25:57
reflect who God is in
25:59
SPEAKER_01: the way that we care for the world and each other.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: Animals don't do that.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: They don't have the capacity to do that.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: We do.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Obviously,
26:12
SPEAKER_01: as we're going to see when we get to Genesis chapter 3,
26:15
SPEAKER_01: when the image of God is perverted or disfigured,
26:20
SPEAKER_01: it becomes destructive.
26:22
And so we have a power latent in us as the image of God to
26:27
destroy the world,
26:31
SPEAKER_01: not just protect it.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And the animal kingdom doesn't really have the capacity.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: Now,
26:37
SPEAKER_01: someone may call in and say,
26:38
SPEAKER_01: well,
26:38
SPEAKER_01: we disagree,
26:39
but the animal world doesn't have the capacity to destroy the
26:41
entire world the way
26:42
SPEAKER_01: the human beings do.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: Just drop one or two really big bombs and that's the end of the story.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: So the image of God can mean all of that.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: Mental capacity,
26:55
SPEAKER_01: critical thinking,
26:56
SPEAKER_01: wonder,
26:57
SPEAKER_01: imagination,
26:58
SPEAKER_01: communication skills,
26:59
SPEAKER_01: living in relationship,
27:01
SPEAKER_01: reflecting God to creation,
27:04
SPEAKER_01: caring for the world that God does.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: That's how we were intended to live.
27:09
And then we're going to see,
27:10
of course,
27:10
that the story takes a dramatically different turn.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Choice and self-determination, Tim.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: Part of that in is in.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: We don't live by instinct alone.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: We're rational beings.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: Now,
27:33
SPEAKER_01: those of us who own dogs,
27:34
SPEAKER_01: we may say this differently because our dogs are pretty much human,
27:37
SPEAKER_01: but my dogs live by three basic instincts.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: Eat, get your belly scratched,
27:47
SPEAKER_01: and poop.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I could add a fourth one, sleep.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's basically their lives, right?
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Eat, get your belly scratched, poop, and sleep.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: That's a dog's life.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: They aren't problem solving.
28:03
They're not trying to figure out,
28:06
you know,
28:06
if they're going to vote Democrat or Republican.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: They just want to eat and get their bellies rubbed.
28:12
There's something different about human beings and the capacity
28:15
that we have
28:17
SPEAKER_01: For good and evil.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: We were meant to be good.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: We are good.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: We were created.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: God said very good.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: But something goes very wrong.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Now,
28:30
SPEAKER_01: having said all that,
28:32
what's important to keep in mind here is that the Hebrews have
28:36
a radically
28:37
SPEAKER_01: different understanding of human beings.
28:40
SPEAKER_01: And remember, these were enslaved people.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: But no other religion outside of Christianity exists.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: had this high view of human beings.
28:52
No other religion at that time had that kind of high view of
28:55
human beings that
28:57
SPEAKER_01: these enslaved people had.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And it came because of their high view of God.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: God is good.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: God is relational.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: God is loving.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: And that God is a provider, not a taker.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: So everything for them starts with their view of God.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: And then
29:16
SPEAKER_01: it moves on down to God's relationship with us and why God created us.
29:22
SPEAKER_01: So Genesis one, you know, I started the podcast last week.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: I said, who are we?
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Why are we here?
29:29
SPEAKER_01: Why was the world created?
29:30
SPEAKER_01: If God is,
29:31
SPEAKER_01: if there is a God,
29:32
SPEAKER_01: was this God like Genesis chapter one answers all of those questions.
29:37
And then the rest of Genesis and then the rest of the Bible are
29:41
sort of how,
29:43
God goes on a rescue mission over and over again to recreate
29:46
and redeem what we put to wrong.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: And for those folks that are listening,
29:53
SPEAKER_02: I would encourage you to remember this verse 27,
29:58
SPEAKER_02: the equality,
29:59
SPEAKER_02: the stake in the ground sort of equality in verse 27.
30:04
SPEAKER_02: And if in the back of your mind,
30:06
SPEAKER_02: you're thinking,
30:06
SPEAKER_02: well,
30:06
SPEAKER_02: what about,
30:07
SPEAKER_02: what about,
30:07
SPEAKER_02: what about,
30:08
SPEAKER_02: what about slavery?
30:09
SPEAKER_02: What about,
30:09
SPEAKER_02: when this,
30:10
SPEAKER_02: yeah,
30:11
SPEAKER_02: let's,
30:11
we'll start off with this stake in the ground and then follow
30:14
us as we trip out,
30:16
as we trip over some of those things and we'll flesh that out
30:18
and we'll talk about
30:19
SPEAKER_02: it.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: And remember the words I used last week.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Some of these stories are not proscriptive.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: They are descriptive.
30:27
And there were plenty of things that the Hebrew people did that
30:30
were not within the
30:32
SPEAKER_01: context of God's will.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: And over and over again, that's part of the story.
30:37
Over and over again,
30:38
you have the people of Israel doing things,
30:40
doing it in the name of God.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: And then God comes along and says, that wasn't what I meant.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: That's not what I intended.
30:46
And so they're on this long arc,
30:48
this long storyline of trying to figure out who God is.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: And when we get to Jesus,
30:54
they still have a hard time recognizing who God really is to
30:59
the point where he's
31:00
SPEAKER_01: nailed to a cross.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: And here we are in 2025,
31:02
still horrific things being done in the name of Christianity or
31:07
the name of
31:08
SPEAKER_01: religion.
31:09
yeah yeah and tim proscriptive versus descriptive you're saying
31:12
not all stories are
31:14
examples of behavior for us to follow that's right rather some
31:19
stories would be a
31:20
description of of events and god as people understood them at
31:25
that time through the
31:26
lens of their culture right and if you keep reading the story
31:30
you find out they
31:30
SPEAKER_01: misunderstood god this is this is the beauty of the hebrew scriptures
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Starts out with Genesis chapter 1 and you think everything is paradise.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: But this book doesn't hold its punches at all.
31:47
SPEAKER_01: It goes right into the stuff of life.
31:51
Because we're going to have a story here in just a couple
31:53
chapters where Cain kills his brother.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: And then we've got murders happening.
31:59
And then we've got such bad stuff happening that God is saying,
32:02
did I make a mistake here?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: We need to get rid of all these people.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And it's just over and over again.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: And so the Hebrew scriptures,
32:10
SPEAKER_01: even though they have this high view of God and high view of humanity,
32:14
SPEAKER_01: they show what humanity is really like.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: What we can be like when we don't love the Lord our God with heart,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: soul,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: mind,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: and strength,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: and when we don't love our neighbors as ourselves.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: And what happens when we're broken?
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:29
what happens when we mishear god or misuse god over and over
32:33
again and so it's this
32:34
constant push and pull of the people of israel i think god's
32:38
telling us to do this
32:39
and they do it and god's i didn't tell you to do that and so
32:44
we'll see that over
32:45
and over again in the story that's why genesis chapter one is
32:49
so pivotal to
32:50
understand the whole arc of scripture this is a good god who
32:54
created a good world
32:55
SPEAKER_01: who created us to live out that goodness
32:59
And then it all goes terribly wrong,
33:00
not because of God,
33:02
but because of us.
33:05
And God does not sanction any of this stuff as we go through
33:09
the scriptures.
33:12
SPEAKER_02: But we can't give away any more because there's another podcast.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: There's many more podcasts.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: And,
33:17
SPEAKER_01: you know,
33:17
if the three of us agree that we want to just go through the
33:20
whole Bible together,
33:22
SPEAKER_01: you better start eating more kale,
33:24
SPEAKER_01: John.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:27
Well,
33:27
all my hopes and dreams have been dashed in some way during
33:30
this one episode.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Go have a burger today and then get back to the chaos.
33:36
SPEAKER_01: All right.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: All right.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: So just to wrap up,
33:40
SPEAKER_01: this is a good God created out of goodness,
33:45
SPEAKER_01: created this world for us to enjoy,
33:47
SPEAKER_01: not abuse,
33:49
SPEAKER_01: but for us to enjoy as representatives of God,
33:52
SPEAKER_01: to care for it the way that God cares for it.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: God created us uniquely to live in relationship with us,
33:58
SPEAKER_01: not for us to provide for God,
34:00
SPEAKER_01: but for God to provide for us and to care for us.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: That's why God created us.
34:05
Just like parents who decide we want to have children because
34:09
we want to have
34:10
SPEAKER_01: something that belongs to us that we can raise and grow and love on.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: That's why God created human beings.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: The story goes downhill from there, but that's the starting point.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: that was who God is, that is who God is.
34:26
And that was who we were meant to be and why the cross becomes
34:30
so important because
34:31
it's Jesus who reconciles all of that and puts the brokenness
34:34
back together again.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: All right, so that's Genesis chapter 1 in two weeks.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: So we've got 49 more chapters to do.
34:49
So next week we will look at the second story of creation,
34:52
which is in Genesis chapter two.
34:53
And we will focus a bit more on the potter making the human
34:58
being out of mud and clay.
35:01
SPEAKER_01: And what that's saying is just another picture of creation.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Any questions or comments before we head on out?
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I had one, but it's evaporated.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: You know what you can do?
35:17
SPEAKER_01: You can do what all the other listeners can do.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: What can I do, Tim?
35:19
SPEAKER_01: You can listen to this on Substack.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: There's a place that says leave a comment.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: They can ask questions there and we'll come back to them.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: There's a place that says leave a comment and I can leave one there.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: So if you've got a question,
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Terry,
35:31
SPEAKER_01: and if you ever really listen to this podcast,
35:35
SPEAKER_01: you could just leave a comment with your questions there.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: And anybody can do that.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: So thanks everyone for listening.
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Please share it with your friends.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: And we will be back with you next time.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: We're going to rock and roll our way out of here.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I think God had his earbuds in, was listen to this.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: God created human beings.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Back with you next time.
36:00
SPEAKER_02: It was a good day.