Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #46: Interview with Sonia Gangopadhyay, Director, Centre of Expertise for Accessible Transportation, Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #46: Interview with Sonia Gangopadhyay, Director, Centre of Expertise for Accessible Transportation, Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) | Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

0:12
Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA,
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invites you to listen to her biweekly podcast,
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Remarkable World Commentary.
0:24
Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
0:27
insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
0:31
Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
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especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
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skills, and expertise in access technology and information.
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As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
1:07
Donna Jodhan: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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I'm Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
1:21
through sound, touch and a stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
1:30
author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010,
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I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites
1:52
accessible to every Canadian, not just the sighted ones.
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And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
2:07
disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
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And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late
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Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or in a committee room or a pottery studio,
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you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where a
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policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
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Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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let me shine a quick spotlight on today's guest and changemaker,
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whose work is every bit as remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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Today, I'd like to welcome Sonia Gangopadhyay from the Canadian Transportation Agency.
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Sonia, welcome to my podcast.
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: Thank you, Donna, and thank you for inviting me to your podcast,
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A Remarkable World Commentary.
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It's a really a pleasure to be here today with you.
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Donna Jodhan: Thank you very much. So, Sonia, to set the stage for our audience.
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How would you describe the Canadian transportation agencies mission in your
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own words? And why should every day travelers,
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even those who seldom think about regulators,
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care about its work?
4:24
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Well, what we do at the Canadian Transport Agency is we protect the fundamental right of
4:30
people with disability to an accessible transportation system.
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The transportation service provider in the federal system just for your auditor so they
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understand who they are.
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They include, like companies that operate planes,
4:45
ferries, trains, buses that travel long distance like they need to cross provinces or
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go to other country to be captured by our regulation and our work.
4:58
It also includes terminals like airport ferry terminals,
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train station, bus station and also some of the services provided by Catsa and CBSA,
5:11
which are the control point and security and border crossing when it comes to providing
5:19
access to those services to ensure that they're accessible as well.
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The reason why the work of the agency is important is because it develops and applies
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where. Well, we're developing and applying rules that establish the right of the user
5:37
and also the responsibility of the transportation service provider.
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So this rule can be regulations, guidance, material that support the rule,
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try to explain them. Because regulation can be dry a little bit sometimes in the sense
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that it's legislative it's law.
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May not be easy to read for everybody, so the guidance kind of helped them to
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understand them. And also we have code of practice,
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and the agency is also a tribunal.
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We hear and resolve complaints like a real court.
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And why does it matter now with two travelers is because it helped to make sure that the
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national transportation system runs efficiently and smoothly for the benefits of
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all Canadians. And it protects the human rights of persons with disability to an
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accessible transportation network.
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Donna Jodhan: Now, many listeners know the CTA chiefly for its airline passenger rooms,
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but the agency's roots go all the way back to early railway forts.
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Could you walk us through that historical journey and highlight the values that
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remained constants despite more than a century of change?
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: Yes. Of course. The agency became, as the Board of Railway Commissioners in
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1902, 1904, so way before my time.
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And that I joined the agency.
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Donna Jodhan: Yeah.
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: So the authority was over inland waterways and airlines,
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along with jurisdiction over the railway.
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And that was given by the Transportation Act in 1938.
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However, the responsibilities and authorities over the federal transportation,
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as you mentioned, have evolved over the last centuries.
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And I can provide a few examples.
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Example, the agency previously you know, really on dispute resolution and some
7:58
regulation to advance accessibility.
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And some of those decisions are very well known such as the one regarding the retrofit
8:08
of via via via rail cars which was in 2000 three.
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There was also the decision on one person, one fare.
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And for your editor, one person, one fare is one a person requires an
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additional seat to do their disability, either for an attendant because they have
8:33
also a service dog that is is big and requires more space or you,
8:39
as I said, to their disability, they will require also more space.
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And that decision was made in 2008.
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And there is newer decision as well that have been made that are important,
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such as the emotional support dog and the coverage of mobility aid,
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which are more recent.
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From 1987, there was four regulation since then that have came into force.
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The first one was the part seven of the Air Transportation Regulation.
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The second 1 in 94 was the personal training for the assistance of person with disability
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regulation. And now, more recently, 2020, the Accessible Transportation for
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persons with Disability Regulations, which often people named the Apdr as an
9:34
acronym. And the last one was in 2021, the Accessible Transportation Planning and
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Reporting Regulation. What is constant in the commitment to an accessible transportation
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system since, you know, almost a century ago,
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is that we always worked and we continue and we'll keep working to meet,
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to meet the need of a person with disability by identifying and removing barriers,
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either through our regulations, our resource that,
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you know, everybody can find on our website, and also the complaint that we receive and
10:16
that we can go through mediation or adjudication to to resolve.
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Donna Jodhan: Quite a lot, isn't it?
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: It's a lot.
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Donna Jodhan: Indeed a lot. Now you direct the CTA's Center of Expertise for Accessible
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Transportation. What does that center actually look like in practice and who's on
10:46
the team? How do you decide priorities and what does a typical week entail for
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you.
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: It's a it's a big question.
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So I'll go step by step.
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My team is made up of managers analysts, senior analysts and administrative staff.
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Overall it's a small team about 1010 people.
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And the work of the center of expertise is is varies a lot.
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So it includes and I'll start with the routine work.
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So we provide information to industry persons with disability.
11:27
We provide expertise to other agency staff such as the people who are involved in the
11:33
compliance and enforcement or that will be dealing with the dispute resolution which are
11:40
the people who receive the complaint.
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We also manage the accessibility helpline when people are planning a trip,
11:48
if they require your information about our regulation,
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about their right, or it could be also the industry that ask question about our
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regulation and how to implement.
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They can also contact the health plan.
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So that's something that we're managing.
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Or it could be also not also for the planning of the trip.
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It could be also if the trip has happened and then there has been a bar here.
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And then they find the person requires some information or is not sure to submit a
12:19
complaint, and they want to talk with us.
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They can also reach out to the helpline we manage also the agency accessibility for all
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training which is a videos training videos.
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And this is all found on our website.
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And industry can use those video as part of their training.
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The video does not replace the regulation, though.
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It's it offers a very strong and good base, a good foundation.
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But with the regulation, they have to go above and beyond in addition
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to our regular day to day work.
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The staff has is involved in various committees that are advancing work on
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accessibility and transportation.
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For example, we're often involved in committee international committees,
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such as the ICAO for auditor.
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The ICAO refer to the International Civil Aviation Organization,
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which is a specialized agency of the United Nations,
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and they coordinate like principles and techniques of international air navigation
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and foster all the planning and development of international air transportation related
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to safety and other key key objectives.
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There is also that we're collaborating with, that,
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which is an international air transportation association.
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They represent 350 airline, which is over 80% of the global air traffic.
13:58
We're also managing the Accessibility Advisory Committee,
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which is composed of more than 20 representative of the industry and also more
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than 20 representative of organization representing people with disability.
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We develop regulation, we publish our guidance.
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We work on so on various projects and working group that address issues such as how to
14:27
safely secure mobility and transportation, how to improve industry training and other
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projects. We also answer questions from the industry on the regulation,
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as I mentioned, and person with disability regarding their right,
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The recourse mechanism, in case the experience of our year in the
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accessible transportation system, for example we receive complaint when a
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person faces a barrier during their travel if they haven't been able to fix it with the
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transportation service provider then they will come to us in those situation and they
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will be able to submit a complaint.
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If the barrier was found, then the tribunal,
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which is separate than my my, my team can make a decision and order the
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removal of the barrier.
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When it comes to the regulatory development, the agency has the authority to develop the
15:28
regulations following a very rigorous process by the government.
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We do consultation, we do the, the, the cost benefit analysis.
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And we support the development of the regulation.
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However, it is the governor and Council which we refer as the GIC on the recommendation of
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the Minister of Transport that make those regulations.
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And then it becomes public through Canada Gazette.
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So in other words, and to try to sum up a little bit what my team does,
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we're supporting the mandate of the agency to ensure that the transportation system in
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Canada is accessible.
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Donna Jodhan: Wow. That's a lot for one week, every week and a different types of
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: It's more than just on the week.
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I went a little bit above and beyond.
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Donna Jodhan: Oh my goodness. Now, back in 2019, the CTA rolled out multiple
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voluntary codes into the legally binding accessible transportation for persons with
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Disabilities Regulations.
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Regulations. What were the biggest challenges in turning guidance into enforceable law?
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And how did you balance the needs of industry with the lived experience of disabled
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travelers?
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: Well, the agency did have experience with enforceable accessibility regulation prior to
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2019, before the apdr it had and continues to have also other accessibility regulations.
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We had, as I mentioned earlier, the part seven of the Air Transportation
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Regulation, which is in relation to the services for traveller with disability in the
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air sector. And also we have the personal training for persons person with disability
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regulation, which was and which has been in place since the mid 1990s.
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So those continue to apply to the small carrier.
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Many of the service services and training obligations were already required under this
18:00
regulation, as I mentioned.
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So the challenge with turning the code and the guidance into regulation relates more to
18:08
the requirements regarding the physical environment,
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such as the inside of the aircraft, because,
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as you know, the aircraft are highly certified.
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And making physical change is not a simple process or always a feasible process.
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Even so, this is why many of those requirements that we find in the Apdr are
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forward facing, meaning that they must be done for new aircraft or when a career is
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making modification to an existing one.
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Other challenges related to putting requirements in to regulation that has been
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imposed on some career by the agency.
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Orders by the tribunal as a result of complaint addressed by the tribunal.
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So one example of this, as I mentioned earlier,
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was the one person, one fare requirement before the regulation.
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This obligation only applied to Air Canada and WestJet.
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This is because in an order, the agency can only impose a requirement on
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the carrier that is the subject of the complaint.
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So if there is a complaint, it's the carrier that's named in the
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complaint that will receive the order from the tribunal.
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It would not go like to all the carriers.
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So by putting into the regulation those order,
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it becomes an claims, an obligation for all career that must follow
19:42
the regulation so that they all have to follow the same rule,
19:48
and so that the passenger know what to expect,
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no matter how they travel, you know, with whom they're traveling with.
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And regarding your last point about how we balance the need of the industry with the
20:02
life experience of traveler with disability, well,
20:06
bridging the operations of the industry with the life experience of traveler is not just a
20:13
matter of compliance with the consultation requirement that we found in our regulation.
20:18
Like, it's more than that.
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It's a blueprint for innovation for inclusion and long term success.
20:27
The industry is very good in strong, you know,
20:31
with the operational efficiency.
20:33
They move people quickly, safely at low cost.
20:38
They they follow all the safety and security protocol.
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The industry also focus on the customer satisfaction.
20:47
Like they want to serve more people more often,
20:51
and accessibility opens up new markets and improve service for all users.
20:56
So when we think about regulatory compliance meeting legal requirements and standards is a
21:06
non-negotiable. But forward thinking goes beyond the minimum to lead the inclusive
21:14
design the lived experience of person with disability.
21:19
If we think about like if they were able to travel in a autonomy with dignity in the real
21:26
world, usability of their experience and everything they encounter during their
21:32
travel. So that live experience is important because it helps identifying the pain point
21:39
that industry overlooks.
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Their insight will lead to smarter, more adaptable system.
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It is why consultation and discussion with person with disability are so important.
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And this is you know, a requirement also in our regulation.
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So in addition, the life experience can improve staff training in disability
22:05
etiquette like communication.
22:08
It is just important as it is like as a, the physical infrastructure,
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when one access point like one of the access point like to the to the travel journey felt
22:22
like a broken elevator or a lift.
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There must be alternative.
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And the life experience teaches that accessibility,
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you know, should be a resilient there should be alternative and that co-development and
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continuous feedback is is an essential key to,
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you know, to the improvement.
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Donna Jodhan: I like that. I like those remarks very much.
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Thank you.
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: You're welcome.
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Donna Jodhan: Now a frequent worrier that I, I hear all the time from listeners is quote
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great. There is a regulation but what will it be.
23:06
What when will it be enforced.
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And how does the CTA monitor compliance on the ground?
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And what happens when a carrier or a terminal operator falls short of accessibility?
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Sonia Gangopadhyay: Well, the agency has a has a compliance continuum to encourage compliance through a
23:32
variety of outreach Education and promotional activities.
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The agency confirms compliance with the regulation by monitoring and verifying those
23:45
activities. We follow up also on compliance verification and our enforcement action to
23:53
confirm that the measures taken have had the desired outcome and that the compliance is
23:59
being maintained. So all our regulations are currently being monitored,
24:04
our inspectors are verifying compliance.
24:07
So there is a compliance process already existing in the agency and that our inspector
24:16
is going through. And actually there we the enforcement officer,
24:21
we named them designated enforcement officer.
24:24
And for sure Dios. And they do regular on site inspection for all modes of
24:30
transportation. And that includes also across airport the airport across Canada.
24:37
Catsa, which is responsible for the security at the border crossing,
24:43
and CBSA, which is the Canadian Border Service Agency and their activities as it
24:49
relates to accessible transportation network.
24:52
When we believe that a potential violation has occurred,
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we initiate automatically an investigation which can result in an administrative
25:01
monitoring penalty for accessibility related violation.
25:05
They can reach up to $250,000.
25:09
Oh, that's a lot. Yes.
25:12
In addition, following the tabling of the performance audit by the Auditor General on
25:19
Accessible Transportation that was published in March 2023,
25:25
the agency has been working to address some of the recommendations and to have a direct
25:32
Observation of available services to capture the experience of travelers with disability.
25:38
So in response to those recommendations, the the agency has implemented a
25:44
collaborative compliance pilot project to shadow person with disability during their
25:51
travel to better understand their life experience,
25:55
the services that's available to them, their unique needs challenge and the agency
26:01
completed this pilot and has now integrated it like the live observation in their
26:10
toolbox. So it's part of their program and they perform shadowing of a passenger with
26:17
disability through their travel continuum.
26:25
Donna Jodhan: Now the pandemic pushed complete numbers to record highs.
26:31
Could you unpack the treasures and mediation model that the CTA has adopted
26:41
to clear that backlog?
26:44
And what lessons have you learned that might shape future dispute resolution methods?
26:55
Sonia Gangopadhyay: First, I would like to clarify something about the backlog.
26:59
We often see confusion between our general air travel complaint backlog and our
27:06
accessibility complaints.
27:09
So it's important to clarify that there are two very different streams of work with
27:19
very different dynamics here.
27:21
So the backlog that most people hear about currently reported at approximately like 80,
27:27
85,000 complaints, which is a lot.
27:30
Lab. It relates to the areas.
27:33
It relates to the air travel issues.
27:36
Under the Air Passenger Protection Regulation,
27:39
the Apr, which I won't talk about today but this includes basically the flight delay
27:47
cancellation and other service disruption.
27:50
By contrast, the accessibility complaints of far less in number.
27:56
Okay, they're not comparable at all.
27:58
And we wouldn't even call it backlog.
28:00
It's more like queue and it's manageable.
28:03
Why would you have a steady flow of accessibility related complaints?
28:09
We've built strong process to address them efficiently and fairly.
28:13
We're continuously refining those processes to ensure timely and to have equitable
28:20
outcomes. And our model just so people can understand how it works,
28:26
we we offer facilitation, In mediation and adjudication.
28:32
We focus on prioritizing early resolution.
28:36
So the the agency uses a mediation and adjudication model with a strong emphasis on
28:43
early informal resolution, where appropriate.
28:47
Our goal is to resolve the case as efficiently as possible without compromising
28:53
the fairness and impartiality.
28:56
We encourage parties, all the parties, to resolve complaints
29:01
collaboratively wherever possible.
29:04
The first step in our intake process is to check whether the passenger has first
29:10
attended to resolve the issue directly with the carrier.
29:14
If not, we typically direct them back to the service provider first often so the carrier,
29:22
because often the carrier will have internal review mechanism that can resolve the matter
29:28
without the need of the agency intervention.
29:31
So that that that's good.
29:32
If it happened, you know, that's an early resolution.
29:36
If that stage or that step has been taken and the issue remains unresolved,
29:43
then the agency can step in and mediation is offered as a first option.
29:48
It's a flexible, it's informal, an informal process where you will find a
29:54
neutral mediator that will work with both parties to reach a mutually acceptable
30:00
solution. If the mediation doesn't succeed we move to adjudication,
30:05
a more formal tribunal style process where agency members consider written submission
30:12
and render a binding decision.
30:16
This two track model allows us to be responsive while upholding the principle of
30:22
procedural fairness and access to justice.
30:26
The lesson we've we learn with our process.
30:30
I would say one of it.
30:32
It's the engagement. Early engagement between passenger and carrier can prevent many
30:37
complaints altogether.
30:39
Also improving guidance and clarity.
30:43
We're also at the agency trying to improving our public facing guidance to help passengers
30:50
understand their right and responsibility before they file a complaint.
30:55
If in a and actually in the coming weeks and months we will be improving some of our
31:02
guidance. And we will also include guidance with specific or certain subject to support
31:09
and help. Passenger there will be difference,
31:13
for example, between the service dog and emotional service dog or if there is an issue
31:19
with the wheelchair services.
31:21
In conclusion, for this question, like I think the takeaway for the auditor
31:26
editor is really accessibility complaint first on the part of the 85,000 air travel
31:34
complaint backlog. We have a small, manageable queue for accessible complaint.
31:40
It's career first contact is an important first step before submitting the complaint to
31:46
the agency. The more specific and detailed the complaint,
31:50
the more effectively we can triage and act and also our dispute dispute resolution
31:58
model, prioritize early resolution, and we're continuously trying to improve our
32:03
process and guidance to serve better the Canadian.
32:09
Donna Jodhan: Now, listeners might think of accessibility purely in terms of wheelchairs and ramps,
32:19
but disability is diverse.
32:23
How do the CTA's ETA's regulations address sensory and invisible disability,
32:32
including the needs of blind and low vision passengers like me.
32:40
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Well, the agency's regulations address all disabilities.
32:44
For example. The training obligations include knowing about the different type of barriers
32:51
that can prevent equal access and different types of assistance that might be required by
32:59
people with disability.
33:01
So there are requirements for the website accessibility for having multiple methods of
33:07
communication multiple methods to communicate information.
33:14
For example, if we think about making the information available in larger print,
33:21
in braille, in electronic format as well as audio or visual format.
33:27
There is also an obligation to describe the layout of the aircraft or train,
33:32
ferry, bus, or if you sit in a seat and then there is some operating control so that the
33:40
person will receive the information, how to operate those those controls.
33:45
Let's say if the person is visually impaired then at least she received the information.
33:52
The person received the information, how to operate those controls. So the
33:55
regulation really address all disability in that sense.
33:59
And look at always alternative to ensure that there is no barrier for other people with
34:06
different type of disability.
34:08
These are just examples.
34:09
But many services are required to be also provided upon request to recognize that not
34:16
all people will need or want the same level of service.
34:21
Another example is And then there are a few people with certain conditions,
34:26
such as autism, and that it makes it difficult for some of them to wait in a line,
34:31
you know, for a very long time, like at the security screening screening,
34:35
for example. So under our regulation, they can move at the front of the line.
34:40
So the regulation really try to make the you know,
34:48
to, to make it equal, to make it like, accessible.
34:51
And if one way doesn't work, the other way will work.
34:55
And looking at those different options.
34:58
So again, the regulation has been developed to cover the travel journey of a person with
35:05
disability in the transformation system, regardless of their disabilities.
35:13
Donna Jodhan: You often collaborate with disability advocates,
35:17
including cross country advocacy advisory committees.
35:22
Committees. How do you ensure that those consultations are aren't merely
35:32
symbolic, but actually actually drive policy change?
35:39
Sonia Gangopadhyay: We we, we really value the input of member of a disability community and work with the
35:48
principle of nothing about us without us.
35:52
We feel that regular engagement with the community leads to productive discussion and
35:58
outcome. When we developed the regulation, all comments received are captured and
36:04
considered thoroughly.
36:06
I recall also during the development of the PDR,
36:10
we went through several consultation phases.
36:15
And I recall that many people from the community of people with disability and the
36:20
industry told us that they feel they felt heard when they met with us,
36:26
and that we seem very interesting to hear and understand their perspective.
36:31
It was more than just seem we were really interested in understanding their perspective
36:38
and making sure we were considering everything to get a strong regulation.
36:44
So this is also during this consultation that we heard that there was an issue for person
36:50
traveling with their motorized wheelchair.
36:55
And also when it gets to the securement you know,
36:59
in the cargo hold of their motorized wheelchair and the size to fit in the door
37:06
sometimes did not work well.
37:07
So as a result of that, like even if that was that was provided
37:12
during consultation of the regulation, we we heard it and we did consider it to the
37:17
point that we launched our first international working group to have a closer
37:23
look at this issue. And this group was composed of persons with disability
37:27
manufacturers, airlines.
37:30
There was many others as well that I won't name,
37:33
but we we feel it's important to have a forum also like our advisory committee or
37:42
smaller working group where we can bring passenger and the transportation industry
37:48
together. It's important for the industry to hear directly from passenger with disability
37:55
about their needs, their experience.
37:58
And it's valuable also for the passenger to hear about the challenges that the
38:04
transportation industry faces.
38:06
So we we really work hard to have those meaningful consultation and discussion with
38:13
both representative of people with disability,
38:15
the industry and all other representatives who plays a part,
38:20
you know, to the good functioning of an accessible transportation in Canada.
38:24
It is important. So it's all those consultations are must be meaningful.
38:30
And we're doing we're working very hard to make them meaningful and to hear the
38:35
perspective of everybody.
38:39
Donna Jodhan: Many of our listeners design or test accessible technology.
38:46
Where do you see the biggest opportunities for technology innovation to help carriers
38:55
and terminals meet standards more effectively and efficiently?
39:05
Sonia Gangopadhyay: So before I talk about the technology per se I would like to to know to your auditor that
39:13
the regulations are designed so that the accessibility can be achieved without
39:20
technology for the most part, and this is important when we're talking
39:24
about alternatives. Sometimes alternative may be different than what we're expecting,
39:29
or a big solution like it might be a small solution,
39:32
but that works as well.
39:33
So for example, announcement must be available audibly and visually in our
39:40
regulation. So but visual announcement could be provided electronically.
39:45
They could also be achieved simply, such as providing us the information on the
39:50
writing board or directly to the passenger, you know.
39:55
So we noticed that in some northern rural area in Canada,
40:02
the internet is unreliable.
40:05
As such, the non-electronic solution needs to exist,
40:10
obviously. And when we ask people with disability like told us what they told us
40:16
Actually, in those situations when the internet is unreliable so they won't receive
40:20
messages through their phone or other means as well.
40:25
You know, if at the end nothing is working.
40:27
A pen and paper is acceptable.
40:29
It is acceptable and it is simple.
40:31
So it's just an example that I wanted to provide that the regulation has been written,
40:36
that it can be achieved with different alternative,
40:40
with different format.
40:41
So we do not regulate technology per se.
40:45
However, we can incorporate by reference standard.
40:50
And those standard sets requirements regarding technology for example the one that
40:57
we have in our regulation that I can sit is the wiki extender for accessible website.
41:04
So the regulation doesn't say, you know, all everything in the website,
41:10
on the website that has to be done because it would be extremely long,
41:14
extremely Only complicated, but there is a standard which is called wcaG.
41:18
It's very well known across the world, in Europe,
41:22
in North America, everywhere.
41:24
And this standard has been integrated by reference into our regulations.
41:29
So through our regulation, transportation service providers have to
41:33
comply with that standard to make accessibility to make accessible their
41:38
website. So to answer your question now, some of the technology that I find
41:45
interesting and that I'm hoping to see more use as people with disability ask for them.
41:52
Obviously they need, you know, they need to ask for them.
41:55
It needs to have value to them to be useful.
41:59
I have three that I, I would like to share with you.
42:03
One is the autonomous wheelchair.
42:05
But it's also could be the autonomous mobility.
42:09
So you don't necessarily need to sit in it, but sometimes it's just a guiding feature
42:14
that are autonomous, and some import airports in Canada are already using them.
42:20
And they allowed for the independence, the ability to travel more freely through an
42:25
airport. So I found them interesting.
42:28
The other one also is the smart boarding bridge.
42:31
And leave that adjust automatically to different type of aircraft.
42:38
So I've found those also very useful.
42:41
And the real time tracking and again real time tracking,
42:44
you can have that digital technology providing that.
42:49
Or you could have that paper system that's as useful and work as well.
42:55
And it's a real time tracking for your wheelchair when it gets into the cargo hall
43:01
of the aircraft, you receive either electronically a message that your wheelchair
43:07
is on board with you, or you receive a ticket that tells you your
43:12
wheelchair has been put in the cargo hold in the same airplane as you.
43:17
So those are a few technology.
43:22
Again, as people with disability requires them and ask for them.
43:27
I think we will see them coming more and more normal across the,
43:33
the, the, across the board.
43:35
And we will see them more and more also in Canada.
43:39
Donna Jodhan: You know, I saw something very interesting yesterday.
43:42
It may not directly apply to what we're talking about,
43:47
but yesterday, my friend and I went to a supermarket.
43:49
Right. And we are looking for a specific product.
43:53
So we approached the really nice customer service rep,
43:57
and we asked him, we're looking for mango puddings.
44:00
Oh, he said, I don't speak English very well.
44:04
Could you speak into my phone?
44:07
And so we did. And you know what?
44:09
It translated it for him into his native Chinese language dialect.
44:15
And so he was able to answer us.
44:18
I was blown away by that.
44:19
I thought, wow, you know.
44:23
Sonia Gangopadhyay: So that's awesome.
44:24
Donna Jodhan: It is. And I think some type of technology like that may be coming your way one day
44:30
soon.
44:31
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Yes, yes. As the technology evolves and as I said,
44:35
as people request them.
44:39
I think this is when we can see different utility of those technology that can really
44:44
help in accessibility and in the transportation system.
44:48
So I'm looking forward to the next ten years.
44:53
Everything that's going to be that's going to be quite interesting.
44:57
Donna Jodhan: Yes. I see the clock is starting to tell me that I'm running out of time.
45:01
But I'd like to ask you this question.
45:04
Your background spans Psychoeducation occupational health policy and
45:13
transportation economics.
45:15
How does that interdisciplinary lens influence the way that you craft
45:25
accessibility rules today?
45:29
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Yes. I'm not this this is a this is a big question.
45:34
So I'm not sure hundred percent of my education and experience.
45:39
You know, brought me necessarily to, to to the regulation world.
45:45
I love regulation, by the way, and the work that I'm doing in accessible
45:51
transportation. So how all those attached to it,
45:56
I'll try to go through it.
45:57
To give some example, as a psycho educator actually,
46:02
we pronounce it psycho educator.
46:04
I try to make it in English so it sounds more meaningful.
46:09
This belongs. Really in Quebec, this cycle.
46:15
So basically studying this in the baccalaureate,
46:19
it helped me to understand the human behavior and paying attention to the needs of people.
46:25
I did also an MBA here in Ottawa, and it really helped me to develop strategic
46:31
thinking, solving complex issues and collaborating with others to move specific
46:38
objectives. And my transportation safety experience with Transport Canada helped me
46:46
understand the benefits, but also the limits of a legislative
46:51
framework and the benefits of working collaboratively to solve problems.
46:57
And when it comes to occupational health and safety regulation again,
47:03
that experience when I worked with the labour program and it really instilled a strong
47:09
understanding of the risk mitigation and the integration of competing objectives.
47:18
So I think at the end like to answer your question,
47:21
that blend of psychology, business safety, regulatory development,
47:27
it kind of encourages system level view.
47:32
And it fits well with the accessibility principle and universal design principle.
47:38
You know, to have that system level view.
47:41
And accessibility is not only the business of the regulator,
47:46
it's the business of everyone, and everyone has a role to play in it,
47:50
in my opinion. So this is why I love my job at the agency.
47:57
We're not just writing rules.
47:59
We're working collaboratively with many players on accessibility,
48:06
transportation, like people with disability, ability,
48:08
the industry and all the other players who may have a piece of responsibility like
48:13
travel agent, people who manufacture a wheelchair,
48:19
the people who drive the standards.
48:24
So we're all crafting a system that respects the right of person with disability and that
48:31
support and accessible transportation network,
48:34
and for which everyone could benefit from.
48:38
So I'm glad that all my background and experience brought me where I am today.
48:45
I think it's a good fit.
48:47
I think there's also other background that can bring people working in accessible
48:52
transportation, and people will have that passion.
48:58
And, you know, it's you have to have fun in your job.
49:01
You have to wake up in the morning and looking forward to your day.
49:06
So it's to me, I think my job kind of put together all those aspects that I like,
49:14
and it's and working with others who have a lot of experience,
49:19
a lot of life experience people who have so much knowledge on different element of the
49:27
transportation system.
49:30
A week ago, two weeks ago, I was in the forum and there was all kind of
49:35
specialists, like engineer and people with knowledge on the human factor that they apply
49:43
in the transportation system and people with live experience.
49:46
It was so rich to see all that expertise and all working in that same direction
49:56
to make the transportation accessible.
49:58
So I'll leave it to, to this.
50:04
Donna Jodhan: You know, I can tell from your voice that you are passionate and very emotional about what
50:09
you do. And this is to be admired in today's world because sometimes it's difficult to
50:14
become passionate and emotional.
50:16
But you certainly are.
50:18
And my final question to you, Sonia.
50:21
What do you see for the next ten years.
50:23
You said you can't wait to see what happens for the next ten years.
50:26
So do you have any last thoughts for us.
50:31
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Oh that's it. This this this is a big this is a big question.
50:39
I don't have a crystal ball, unfortunately.
50:41
I wish I did. No, I don't.
50:44
I think I think what I would like, though, in the next ten years,
50:48
I think it's like, I would like people to know first that the agency is really,
50:53
truly committed to advancing accessibility in the transportation system.
51:00
And that we are a strong contributor to Canada meeting its goal of being a barrier
51:07
free by 2040. As you know, this is the big objective under the
51:13
Accessible Canada Act that was adopted in 2019.
51:18
So we we are a big contributor.
51:22
You know, working hard toward that objective.
51:26
And I'm hoping that in the next ten years, everybody who is involved in an accessible
51:31
transportation system, whatever is their role,
51:34
that they will keep working toward it and will reach it.
51:39
So it's not in the next ten years, but we're more looking at the next 15 years
51:44
at this point. And that we will reach that goal.
51:49
Donna Jodhan: Sonia, I'd like to thank you for having taken the time to be on a remarkable World
51:54
commentary interview, and I would like to invite you to return.
51:58
If at any time you would like to share anything with us,
52:01
I think our listeners would really want to hear more from you.
52:05
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Thank you so much. It was a real pleasure to be here with you.
52:09
And thank you also for hosting all those podcasts and disseminating information.
52:15
I find that this is a an important piece you know,
52:20
to build awareness. So thank you.
52:23
Donna Jodhan: I think if someone has something to share or someone to say,
52:27
it's my little contribution to the world, that I can help to do that.
52:31
So thank you again. And I look forward to hearing from you again in the near future.
52:38
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Excellent. Thank you.
52:40
Donna Jodhan: Thank you. Sonia. Take care.
52:42
Sonia Gangopadhyay: Bye bye.
52:43
Donna Jodhan: Bye bye.
52:47
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at Donna at gmail.com.
52:53
Until next time.