Latest / Empower Your Menopause / Episode 89: Why dieting stops working after 40 and what to do instead

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Episode 89: Why dieting stops working after 40 and what to do instead · Empower Your Menopause

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Julie, I've got a quick question for you before we get into today's episode.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever had someone tell you that they eat well, they exercise, they think they're doing everything right, but the weight is still not shifting?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, every single week.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's what today is going to be about, because the answer is almost never try harder, and it's almost never eat less.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about what's actually going on.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Empower Your Menopause, the podcast for women over 40 who want real answers about their health, their hormones, and feeling like themselves again.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Without the latest fads or anyone telling you just to eat less and move more.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because we know that's pretty old hat, right?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Coach James.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Coach Julie.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're getting into something a lot of women feel, but nobody quite explained to them yet, and that is why the things that worked before, earlier in life, 20s and 30s maybe, don't work the same way anymore, and what that actually means for you.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to talk about this really, we need to put it into some I guess context, if you like.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we know that the dieting industry tends to feed itself, pardon the pun, on women going on constant diet.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, Julie, why don't we talk about that a little bit?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: What is the diet fed mill?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on in the background?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: What is challenging people's perceptions, if you like, on this idea of weight loss, particularly in women 40 and above?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's really interesting because if you look back, you know, in into history, I guess, of our lifetimes, you know, we went through this age of being fat phobic, and now we've come through an age of being carb phobic, and now, you know, we have all of these special programs and all of these special diets.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at old movies and you look at old photographs, it it was rare to see one, someone who was overweight.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: It was rare to see those kinds of massive changes that we see in our bodies.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And now, because the diet industry has blossomed from all of these instructions it gives us, and as you say, feeds itself, um, it it really creates customers rather than solutions.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have a statistic that was researched by a company we respect called Precision Nutrition, which shows the average woman will do 126 diets in her adult life.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: 126.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm pretty sure I've done about a hundred of them myself over time.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: But the reason that you we end up doing so many is because we feel like we constantly have to do something complicated, something different, we have to restrict ourselves.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, any diet you try just about is gonna work for a little bit, and then it's gonna stop because number one, it may not be providing you with the nutrition that your body actually needs.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: You it may be too complicated, and and life may just get in the way.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't have time to calculate and um make these special recipes and and do all of the planning while we're trying to cope with all of the other things that that life is throwing our way.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then what we end up doing is we blame ourselves, so we feel guilty, and then lo and behold, the diet industry comes out for product, we say, Oh, maybe this is the one.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it isn't that the diet's that you're failing the diet, it's that the diet is failing you because it doesn't live within the context of your real life or your real body, because now the rules have genuinely changed.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't about having more willpower and more discipline or restricting more.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, diets simply aren't the answer to what your body actually needs at this stage of life.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just a really quick personal reflection here, because I did really spend most of my adult life powering through diets, right?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: White knuckling my way through things, eating things I didn't enjoy, forcing myself to fit into this mold of whatever program I was doing at the time.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, there was nowhere for me to live within the context of all those diets I was doing.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I gave up and started over so many times.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just thought, well, I need to do something bigger, or this isn't the right diet, or I just need to push myself harder and do the same things more and more, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: The true definition of insanity.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, I reached a point where I just couldn't do it anymore.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as luck would have it, right about that time, I read an article that had been published by a coach, and I honestly felt like she was talking to me from right inside my head.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I got curious, and over the course of time working with the coach, I started to realize that just pushing myself through was not the answer.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I learned how to slow down and take smaller steps and not expect instant results, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to learn how to listen to my body so I could understand what it actually needed, things that I could keep doing for the rest of my life, rather than being on a program or off a program.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the great thing is that didn't include giving up everything that I loved or never eating chocolate again.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not gonna lie, it was still hard work to do, but once I allowed things to fall into place and take smaller steps, it's amazing that the changes that I got to experience.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that is working with the body in menopause after I was 40.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because, James, a lot of things change in our bodies at this point, don't they?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you know, it's not up to us to sit here and lie to anybody and say that, oh, it's really easy to lose weight after 40, but it's not.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, your body slows down, your metabolism slows down, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: What does help really is to try and understand some of what maybe what the underlying mechanisms are and behind weight gain at this time of life, and then see how we can work with those instead of trying to push against them.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that happens quite a lot in that sort of like starve yourself, push yourself harder in the gym, that really does work against a menopausal woman's body.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, first things first, you know, our good old friend estrogen.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: It as it declines when a woman starts to go through perimenopause and it goes up and down for a little bit, and then it starts its steady decline into the menopause transition itself, that affects the way that your body processes things, it affects fat distribution, it affects your blood sugar balance, it affects your muscle mass, and so we need to try and work with that in mind that that is always going to be a challenge.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Then, of course, cortisol becomes more reactive as well, and we say this all the time, but you know, point me in the direction of a woman over 40 who isn't stressed out in some way, shape, or form.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I will give you some kind of a medal because almost every woman that we know is stressed out by all the things that we talk about all the time.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that can be families, it can be partners, it can be a busy job, it can be the PTA coming and knocking on the door, it can be parents getting older, lots and lots of stuff going down, and then that idea that society makes a lot of women think that they have to be gold standard at every single thing that they do and match sort of like the glossy images from magazines or the image they've got of their neighbour who they think he's doing better than them, and then all that builds up, and when stress builds up, cortisol becomes even more reactive.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got that natural extra reactiveness of cortisol plus the lifestyle challenges as well.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: That oestrogen decline really changes a woman's relationship with insulin, one of the other key hormones that helps regulate blood sugar, blood uh glucose, and eventually ultimately hunger as well.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So those blood sugar swings from up to down that we tend to get when our body is processing uh sugars after we've eaten them, then that actually hits worse as well.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got the final thing as well, which, although we're leaving it to the last, is probably one of the biggest things that challenges women at this time of life, is the fact that the gut microbiome changes.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so as a woman gets older, her gut microbiome of itself becomes more like that of a man.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: There's part of the gut microbiome, which is really really important, which is called your estrobilome, which is how you actually process estrogen in the first place, and that also has alterations as well.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the key thing to think about here is your body is not really turned against you by all those things, it's just a completely different set of rules.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: The rule books changed, and you know, maybe no one's giving you that rule book when it comes to um weight loss.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe think of it, if you will, a little bit like you know, when you your mobile phone, same hardware, gets a new operating system.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you get those periodic things from something like Apple or Google or Samsung or whatever saying, oh, our new operating system's coming.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: You need to download it for your phone to work in the same way.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is a little bit like that.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Your body doesn't work in the same way as it used to, so we need to work out how it does work now.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a good point for me to hand over to Julie to talk a little bit about how it works now and what we can actually do about it, and also really key, maybe what we shouldn't be trying to do at this time of life.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Julie.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, who among us has not figured I just need to try harder, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm information everywhere, so now I just need to try harder, and we're trying to do a hundred things at the same time.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it really just makes everything worse because as James said, you know, stress is gonna raise your cortisol level, restricting your food is gonna raise your cortisol level, especially because there's a lot of stress around dieting, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have to get this right, I have to do it perfectly, and if I eat one thing that's off program, suddenly I've failed, I'm no good at this.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And cortisol is going to drive extra fat storage, especially around the middle, which is where we don't want it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we don't want to store extra fat anywhere, but the middle is where most women are more sensitive to it, and our uh decreasing levels of estrogen are already preferentially depositing more fat around our midsection.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that just kind of doubles up as you will.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: When we start restricting and skipping meals, we tend to grab things that are quicker and easier because we don't want to have to fuss so much, and that's going to disrupt our blood sugar, it's gonna spike our cravings, um, and it gets us into this repeated cycle, and maybe you feel like I've been in air quotes good all day, right?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't eaten very much, and I've had a really light lunch, and then you get home at night and you just want to eat all the things, and sometimes you do, and then you feel bad because you haven't managed to balance your blood sugar through the day by getting enough protein, by getting enough fiber, by getting enough food generally, and your body is gonna say, Hey, feed me, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then we add to that over-exercising to compensate for those times when we've eaten more than we wanted to, and not giving ourselves enough recovery time, which again is gonna spike our cortisol levels because exercise is a form of stress.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: In some ways, when done properly for what we need, it's good stress because it makes our body stronger and more resilient.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: But overdoing it, you know, not allowing ourselves the recovery time is going to raise that cortisol again, and we're gonna have more inflammation because we're putting our body into this constant state of inflammation, which drives other health issues.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that whole no pain, no gain thing really needs to go away because pushing harder at these uh what do I want to say, stale and antiquated approaches to dieting and health, you know, the harder you push, the more your body's going to resist you.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I liken a lot of these diets and programs and forcing ourselves to do things, kind of like putting sugar in our fuel tank and then expecting the car to run like a Ferrari, right?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because it just doesn't work.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, having said that, there are some simple things.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't hopeless.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is actually quite quite doable.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, James, I'm handing it back to you because let's talk about the positive side of this.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've set everything up to sound so negative, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's let's try and talk about the positive, the things that do work.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, a few, not rules if you like, because we don't believe in rules, but guidelines.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Really, so number one is nourish, don't restrict.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as soon as you start trying to cut things out, you're invariably going to be missing out on either really key vitamins and minerals, or in some cases, if it's the occasional treat that you can cut out, you're gonna cut out on some joy as well.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, actually, eating as much as you can of the good stuff, and I'll talk about what the good stuff is in a second, actually crowds out those naughty snacks quite often, anyway.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Key thing number one when it comes to nourishment, protein, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: All the macronutrients, that's protein, fat, carbohydrates, all have a role to play.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: We don't banish any of them, but protein needs to be your number one go-to.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your body processes less protein at this time of life, and inherently we tend to eat less protein at this time of life.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, a combination of not eating as much protein and then your body being inefficient at processing it means that your protein levels are likely really low, and your body absolutely is craving protein right now, it needs it for so many different things.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, give it to your body.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like practically?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we talk about um hand sizes when it comes to portioning, a palm size, uh piece of protein, whatever that protein may be, whether it be a couple of eggs, uh, some steak, some chicken, whatever, that is about a portion for a woman.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: We recommend one to two portions at every single meal.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's somewhere between three and six portions of protein a day.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Fibre, absolutely gold dust at this time of life.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Helps with your digestion, keeps things moving, helps with detoxification.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really important.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, as many anti-inflammatory foods as you can.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can't think of what the anti-inflammatory foods are?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Think herbs and spices.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them have some kind of anti-inflammatory property.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that important?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, all the stresses that we've talked about before are driving a low level of inflammation in your body on a constant basis.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that low level of inflammation is not the good kind of inflammation, it's not the kind of thing where you know you burn yourself on the oven and you get a blister because inflammate acute inflammation is going to that point to help you heal.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is low-level inflammation that goes on to cause really long-term health problems, things like heart disease, type 2 diabetes, um, obesity, lots and lots of challenges come from inflammation.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that is really, really important as well.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Get as many anti-inflammatory foods into your diet as possible.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So guideline number two you've got to manage that cortisol load in some way, shape, or form.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody says to us, Oh, you know, I I get loads of sleep, I'm not that stressed out, and then when you dig into it and you ask people about it, it's never as good as what it could be.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Recovery is really, really important, both from a sleep point of view, because you need to sleep so your body can rebuild, realign your thoughts, go through digestion, do everything that it needs to do, right?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then stress.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, nobody's gonna press a button and get rid of stress in your life.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you have to do?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to try and employ some kind of stress relief in your life.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, the advice of you know go and take up yoga is overdone, right?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: But find five, ten, fifteen minutes a day where you can just sit and be with yourself for a little bit.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Make your meals less stressy.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Don't eat at your desk, eat with your family or eat in silence, or take the time to chew or nourish your food.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're stressed out when you're eating, you're not digesting either.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: So stress is really, or stress relief rather, is really, really important.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, our good old friend the gut.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Almost everything when it comes to our well-being has its roots in some way, shape, or form in your gut health.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is where food is processed and you get the nutrients from it, and if that is not happening in an efficient manner, you aren't getting the best from your food, whatever kind of food you're eating.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you can have the best diet in the world.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: If your gut health is pot, it's not gonna help you in any way, shape, or form.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then your microbiome does much, much more than just digesting food, it looks after hormones, metabolism, mood, um your immune system, lots and lots of different things.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they're kind of like the three key that I'd say.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got two more sort of like guidelines for you.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Number one is consistency over intensity.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of finding the gun, you know, January the 1st or a couple of weeks before you go on holiday and trying to cram it all into like a couple of weeks and thinking you're going to change everything in one go, it does not work.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: There is a ton and ton of research that shows that it just doesn't happen, right?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: You you look at research into resolutions that start on January the 1st, and most of the research shows that by the third week of January, those resolutions are in the bin, and they're in the bin because they're too hard for people to do.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that idea of sort of like doing constant sprints every so often and then failing, and even worse, blaming yourself because you've failed and being all negative about yourself, starting off that negative self-talk, and then that affecting you moving forward until the next time you decide to have another sprint, it doesn't work.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm hoping that some of you are listening and nodding and thinking about this because you recognise that idea of sort of like getting off on that sprint and then stopping and then starting again and then getting off on the sprint and stopping and starting again.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is exactly why women have done those 126 diets that Julie was talking about before.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So aim for consistency over intensity.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And if that is just one change a week, and one change that is done well, that will build because those small steps are going to compound one on top of the other, on top of the other, on top of the other.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Take your time.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not motivational fluff, this is physiology, this is how your body prefers to work, and also it's how you stick to change longer term.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Don't believe me, go and read a book called Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg that will explain exactly why this is the key for behaviour change.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: BJ Fogg is like an eminent, the most eminent expert in behaviour change in the United States of America.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: He knows what he's talking about.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, individualise.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just because your mate has managed to have some luck trying a certain supplement, it does not mean it's gonna work for you.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be nice if it did, but more than likely it's not going to.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: So make sure that you're looking at what is working for you and your body.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Keep notes, keep a journal, see what works, see what doesn't, and work it out.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And if you if you're having trouble working it out, come and see somebody like myself or Julie, and we will help you work it out.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's our role, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: So individualization is absolutely key.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about doing more and more and more, just smashing it more in the gym or restricting yourself more when it comes to diet.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's about doing the right things for your body right now.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I lose count of the number of people who come to us absolutely completely exhausted from being on this sort of like never-ending hamster wheel of restriction, crying really hard, failing, stopping, starting again, again and again and again.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as she stopped restricting her diet and started supporting what she needed, within four weeks, she felt like she had an absolutely new lease of life.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Not because she did anything extreme, but because she finally stopped fighting her body.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've ranted on long enough about what we did.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, Julie, let's bring it to a close then.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I will just say to that end, um, one of my favorite examples is from Stephen Covey, who wrote the seven principles of success, or seven habits of successful people, whatever the book is.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he calls it the law of the farm.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: A farmer can't go out and feel like, ah, I don't feel like doing this today.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna wait, it's not good weather, I you know, this is not the right time, and then suddenly sow all of his seeds in July and expect to harvest a crop in August.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: This the soil has to be tended to, the the seeds have to be spread properly, they have to be fed, they have to be watered, they have to be tended to, the weeds have to be pulled out.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a long time to get from that point to where you're harvesting the crop.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And our bodies are the same way because we have trillions of cells to change and change over.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it isn't a this isn't a quick process, but it's a really, really good one.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, so hopefully, if hopefully today something clicked for you here because this is the kind of stuff that we love to talk about, and we do that all the time with the women who we work with.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're thinking, yeah, okay, this house sounds good, but where do I actually start?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's what our clarity calls are for.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: We don't do sales calls, we we sit down with you and have a proper conversation.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on for you specifically, and maybe what one next step might look like for you.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, as you said, these aren't sales calls.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, they're not scripted, but they are structured in a way.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: What we do is we start off by talking about where you want to get to, what is the aim, where would you like to be in six months' time?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Then we look at what's working for you now because we don't want you to throw the baby out with a bathwater.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've got stuff that's in place, we aren't going to change it if it's in place and it's working really well.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: But then what we will look at is where the gaps are, and that is where we can step in and we can help you find your next steps.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So by the end of the conversation, we'll have listened, we'll reflect back what we're hearing, we'll help you come up with something concrete to work with.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if we're not the right fit, we'll point you to someone that is.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, if you do want to know what it's like to work with us after that, we can discuss that on the call too.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: But that is not a sales call.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to book yours, all you've got to do is visit freecall.fabulousbeyond40.com.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's freecall.fabulousbeyond40.com.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I will put those details in the show notes as well.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it for this week.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've been James and Julie of Fabulous Beyond 40, and we're here to remind you to stay strong and stay fabulous, and we'll see you next time.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.