Latest / Skin Anarchy / Kayla A. Greaves, Senior Beauty Editor for InStyle

Transcript

Kayla A. Greaves, Senior Beauty Editor for InStyle · Skin Anarchy

• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Cooker Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of the sector.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I have been waiting for this interview for a long time.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited about this one.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you guys like it.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be um, I think for me it's gonna be one of my favorites for sure.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I want to introduce you guys to Kayla Greaves.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Kayla is an award-winning journalist, she's a senior beauty editor at Install magazine.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um Kayla has been basically featured in every top fashion publication um that you know exists right now.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's interviewed uh stars like Naomi Campbell and has been named one of the top 100 black women to watch in Canada um in 2017 and was also nominated um for the best online journalist of 2019.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, she's got a lot of stuff on her resume that is truly astounding.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Kayla.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here with us.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have you here.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to get started by just kind of talking about you know how you really got into journalism and this whole path.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think I kind of always knew that I wanted to work in journalism from when I was a kid.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember, you know, growing up and watching Entertainment Tonight and Inside Edition, like it was always something that I wanted to do.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I think in terms of you know venturing into beauty, I kind of grew up as the only black kid.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was growing up, there wasn't a lot of representation for black women, period.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for me, I kind of wanted to go into the space and not only celebrate black beauty, but also um normalize black beauty so there's no, you know, we we can finally get to a point one day when there's no big round of applause when a black woman is on a magazine cover and it's just it's just everyday normal life.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I actually wanted to ask you about um how you were like, you know, how did you get involved with conveying this message?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, you clearly have, you know, this this direction, right, and what you want to do.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, how did when did you decide in your career that this is like the kind of work you want to do?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was from the very beginning I wanted to do this.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think I knew very early on that I had a mission and I had a goal.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it didn't really matter which publication I worked at, it was more so just about staying true to my mission and um to to the work that I wanted to, you know, put out into the world.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I okay, I want to ask you this because honestly, I feel like this is um something I know I've dealt with, and I think every colored woman on this planet has dealt with is how many times were you told no in your career?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So many times, so many times.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: So many times.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've gotten so many rejections, so many no's, so many not, you know, no responses, like all of that type of stuff.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there was a time when I took it really personally, and I thought it was it was a reflection of me or there was something wrong with me, and it's not, it's never you that's the issue.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: I just think, you know, whatever you're meant to do, whatever is, you know, in alignment with you is going to find you, and what isn't meant for you is really it's just not meant for you, and it's not personal, and it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with you.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: It just means that this is not the right opportunity for you.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: This is not the fit for you.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when you do end up finding your fit, it makes sense.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Things make sense, and I think you know, people have to kind of take their egos out of the equation, yes, um, which I had to do myself.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: I have to take my ego out of it because it's really not about me.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's just this opportunity was not the right position for me, or I was not meant to write, you know, a freelance story for this specific place or whatever, or like maybe you know, I was meant to tell the story, but I was meant to tell it in a bigger way.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or I had to wait until I was in a certain position in order to do so.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, like the manifestation of it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with you.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very hard for people to live in that duality, right?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Where you're observing your ego and you're actually present.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can feel that the duality of that sometimes in your mind.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, when you observe what you're doing and like just the the anger and all of that, it's interesting when people get to that point in their careers, is what I'm trying to say, you know?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it's I think it's a journey with kind of just yourself and self-discovery, when you kind of get to a point in your life where you realize that you have to remove your ego from a lot of things, life really changes for you.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just that's a personal journey, even outside of work.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: But it does, it does end up affecting your work life, I would say, in a very positive manner.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Now, okay, I want to ask you this, and this is okay, I know it's cliche, but I have to ask you, you know, growing up, you know, what was it like in terms of establishing your own identity as a black woman?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, I know it's it's a very um big umbrella question, but like I think that's something that I think everyone needs to hear is like how you went through your life and you were you you stabilized yourself, you know what I'm saying, in a world that's just not set up for people of color.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: I it took me a long time to be honest with you.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think I I spent a lot of time trying to be something else or trying to make myself fit into places where I didn't fit or try to change who I was to make people like me.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think all of us do that because we don't have spaces where we're accepted.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I had to stop.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had to just get to a point where I had to just like myself and realize that if you know, those people in those spaces don't like me or don't want me to be here, like that's that's their problem.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: That has nothing to do with me.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so again, it was it really just came down to like a journey of self-discovery and maturity and and taking ego out of things and also just being comfortable in my own skin.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that took a long time, but I'm very glad to be here now.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I love that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so tell me more about like what do you do you meditate a lot, like for in terms of like this whole the ego detachment and stuff?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because you sound like somebody who's really into like spirituality and stuff.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you don't I don't meditate as much as I should.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think I do.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, like on weekends, I'll kind of just you know, like vibe out on the couch, listen to like, you know, specific types of music to kind of just chill me out.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'll take a break from my phone, like I'll I'll play music on like a physical CD or you know, like like like a vinyl album or whatever, and just kind of zone out and be in my own world.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I there's there's a reason I'm asking you this because I feel like this is like people like you are truly people I think that practice self-care, like on like for your your name, for your soul, for your for your heart.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I want to ask you that because I think that's the whole point of you know self-care, figuring out what may gets you to the point where you can start recognizing your ego and you can start recognizing what you just described, you know?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was just life experiences, you know.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think 2020, I mean, everything that happened 2020 is kind of spilling into 2021, but I mean 2020 was a period where you know everybody just kind of had to sit with themselves, and I don't think we get a lot of those opportunities to do that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then being able to just sit with myself, I was able to really analyze a lot of my behavior and analyze a lot of just everything, you know, throughout my life and try to make sense of it and try to understand why I reacted the way I reacted.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, was it did I react because I was genuinely hurt?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Did I react because I was did I react because of whatever it, you know, may have been.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and really sitting down with myself and doing that personal work.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like a fun journey at all.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't mean to, you know, sound like I'm this like all-knowing person who just, you know, I get you a easy thing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not a it's not necessarily, you know, a clear road to get to this point, but you really do have to sit with yourself and go through all of the emotions.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: But what comes from the other side is something that's so good.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you just have this sense of relief and you're good with yourself and you're so secure in yourself and you're so confident um in yourself and your abilities that things don't phase you the way that they used to.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a really healthy process for a lot of people to do.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think a lot of people have trouble sitting with themselves and being alone literally physically and you know, in in uh in other ways.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's not an easy thing to do, it's not pleasant, and it is most sometimes, but it's something that's necessary to do.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's necessary to do for for personal growth.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I completely agree.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think many of us do know how to, you know, sit by ourselves.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I remember, you know, growing up, I was always like the the really shy kid, and I never understood why everybody was always engaged all the time.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was always like exhausting.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just I don't I get it, but then I don't get it to be honest.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would go mad, I think.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um so okay, let me let me lighten things up a little bit because I definitely just like went in hard there.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's all good.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I want to talk to you about um just the beauty industry because I think there's a lot of things to talk about, especially with um big relevant topics like you know, inclusivity and diversity, and really doing that instead of just using it as a stamp, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I I want to know what you think about that in terms of all of these brands, all of these people coming out saying, we're we're inclusive now.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what do you want to see more of?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Are you convinced with what's going on?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or um how do you feel about it?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think we're seeing a lot of frontward facing diversity, but I'm not so sure we're seeing it behind the scenes and in the C-suite and in decision-making positions yet.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think the majority of black women that are in C-suites um or black people in general are usually in diversity and inclusion roles, which is fine and which is good, but they need to be in other decision-making positions, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you are one of one in a C-suite, how are you supposed to be supported?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like how you don't have the tools to be supported.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think companies need to, you know, look within themselves and look within leadership and ask, like, you know, yes, we may have a person of color or a black woman or a queer person in this position, but do we have the resources to support them?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they will be successful in that position, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not enough to just plop somebody there to tick off a box.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: You have to make sure they're supported, you have to make sure that people listen to them, you have to make sure that their ideas are taken into account.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: You have to make sure you have to trust them to do their jobs, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: You have to actually create a work environment for those people.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have to create a positive work environment that's conducive to you know the goal of being a more equitable workplace, you know?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I mean uh is progress being made?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is it enough?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it will never be enough until this is no longer an issue or a question that we have to ask about.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do I think that we're far way, far ways away from it?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, to be honest.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're getting there, and I think people are people are aware um that this is something that they need to do, but I don't know if they know how to do it yet or if they're listening um in order to be able to do this successfully.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, my hope is that it happens sooner than later, but I also have to be realistic that, you know, even though we're seeing more people in front-facing positions, behind the scenes is just not there yet.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it takes more than just putting people in positions, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: It takes understanding from people, and that takes a lot of work.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and accepting the input, you know.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I always wonder, like, in terms of like decision making in the corporate world, like, really what does it come down to?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's not about that, you know, balanced perspective that's being you know decided upon.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I hear you.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I actually want to know more about what you think um in terms of like when you approach, for example, like I'm trying to think, like a beauty counter, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like being younger, I remember I used to approach it and it was just like, you know, I didn't feel like it was for me.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know where to go, kind of thing.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But now as a woman, when you go to a beauty counter, do you feel like it's like easier?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do you feel like there's been change on that level where you can actually go into a store and you feel like you can buy exactly what you want?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think we're definitely still lacking there?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's better.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think in terms of foundation shades, for example, it's it's better.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think um, you know, I've I've been somebody who's, you know, I'm of a lighter complexion.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it it's no, it hasn't always been a challenge for me to find makeup that works for me.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: I will say though, that back in the day, I do remember, you know, certain things like blushes or eyeshadows wouldn't show up on me.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so if they wouldn't show up on me, how is it gonna show up on a brown skin girl?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and that's that's the issue.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very, very fair and I'm aware of that, you know.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think, yes, foundation, I would say that there people are getting to a point where, you know, we're seeing, you know, various shades for every type of skin color.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do I think the undertones are all the way there?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think there's definitely some companies that are rushing undertones.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or sorry, not even just well, they're rushing the process and they're not paying attention to undertones in that.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something you need to pay attention to, but also in terms of, you know, like contour kits or um you know, you know, blush or highlighters and those types of things.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that there's more to be done to make sure that everybody of every skin tone can wear these.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think Fenty Beauty really set the new benchmark in terms of what's acceptable.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think everybody right now, well, not as much anymore, but I mean when Fenty Beauty first came out, maybe a year or two after, everybody was like so bent on just creating at least 40 shades of foundation and making sure that they had the darkest and the lightest and whatever.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it goes beyond foundation.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: It goes into, you know, lipsticks, it goes into contour kits, it goes into um highlighter, it goes into every type of makeup.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Even though mascara, like darker mascara, you know what I mean?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you have that problem, but like the dark, the black would never, I just never used mascara because I hated it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, yeah, and it it goes into everything, you know, and you have to make sure that the pigments are going to work across all shades and skin tones.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, period.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: They have to be vivid pigments.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's okay.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you something real fast.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I'm sorry, I interrupted you, but like I want to know what you think of the the products that are like, well, this is for darker women, or like this is for darker skin types, that title.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of products have that.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: What do you feel about that?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, um, I'll say two things.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say first of all, I I, you know, it's hard for me to quantify how that would make a darker skin woman feel because I don't have that experience.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I will say for some people, from what I've what I have been told, it's helpful because then they know exactly what's going to work for them.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then for others, you know, they kind of just wish everything would just kind of blend together and they wouldn't have to, you know, have this distinction between what's for them and what's for everybody else, because it kind of creates that separation.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I think everybody kind of has their own thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, until we get to a point where we're not having these discussions anymore, then we're not doing enough and brands are not doing enough.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the reason I also ask is like I feel like it goes back to your original point, right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Of just it should just be a natural thing.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't have to look at a magazine cover with a black woman on it and think, oh, this is a magazine cover with a black woman on it.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing with products, and that's why I'm asking, because I remember growing up and all of the, you know, like the oils and that stuff that's used for African-American hair types is always on like the bottom shelf at Walmart.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I'm saying?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like this specific packaging, and it was like this one section.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember even at that age being offended by that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, like, why because you know, as Indian, I also saw that too.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's an Indian aisle for stuff, you know what I'm saying?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just it was weird, and I didn't like it, and I felt like that is something that keeps almost this barrier up where it's not just about this product will work on this type of these hair types, you know what I'm saying?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like sticking to like actual science instead of like grouping it in these, like, you know, once again, racially charged, you know, categories.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think also the thing with that is um not every store has the quote unquote black section, or sometimes we'll see the quote unquote black section and it's like behind a barrier, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so what does that insinuate?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: That insinuates that you think black consumers are going to steal hair products or beauty products, right?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's deeper than just um distinguishing where the products will be found.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's what are you doing with these things, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like are why are they behind barriers?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: What are you trying to say when that happens?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, why are they put into this little tiny corner on the bottom shelf in this obscure aisle when you know products that work on white people's hair is like they have an entire display?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: They have an entire aisle.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's bigger than just um, you know, them having the quote unquote black section.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's just more so why are you treating these products and placing these products in the way that you're placing them?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: What are you insinuating about the demographic that you're selling to?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's ridiculous.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good point.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even think about that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, that's but that's my thing.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's it's you know, I mean, that that point is so so much more deeper than this because I I think that I don't even know how we're gonna get rid of that because it's even in like you know, higher end stores, you know, like for example, if you go to like a Sephora's in a certain neighborhood, like they act really different.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, it's I it's everywhere, is what I'm saying.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you just described.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am I'm just like you know, trying to figure out like how we can really make it so that you know, if a young little girl of color, you know, whether she's Indian or Pakistani or um, you know, black or Muslim, she can go into a store and doesn't have to go to her section.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's my biggest problem is like you will never I don't think we'll ever reach a point of truly moving past race till like we teach our children that it's not segregated.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I mean, uh you know, I think hair products should just be on display where all the other hair products are.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if it's a shampoo, it's a shampoo, place it with the shampoos, you know.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, separate things by brand and not necessarily by um, you know, the race of people that you're trying to market this product to or who these products are meant for.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I think that there are there are black women who do like to have their one section um and just be able to find all of their things in one place, and that's okay.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the issue is when you're putting these products literally behind bars, or you're just kind of like throwing them to one side, what does that say?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or they're not available at every store type of thing.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: What does that say?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because that's that's under the assumption that you know everybody can just use certain products when we can't.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Not everybody's hair is is the same, people's hair have different needs.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I 100% agree.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: I actually want to ask you um more about that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: What are some products that you're really liking right now or brands that you really like in terms of their message and their what they're doing?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um let me think.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would say Sharon Shooter, she's a fan of Ryoma Beauty, and she she started the pull-up um or shut up campaign, and she's just been very consistent with that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it just shows that you know, Sharon is about the talk.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like she's she will she will walk the walk.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, and and she's she's always been very outspoken, and that's exactly what she should be doing.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I really admire women like her.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, of course, Pat McGrath, you know, just goes without saying, like, first of all, she's a dame, first of all, excuse me, dame Pat McGrath.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: She is an icon.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: She is the most influential makeup artist of all time.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that that was not by mistake, you know, she's self made.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And she's created these gorgeous looks that work for everybody.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, her makeup line is so beautifully done.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's so well done.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Every product is a knockout.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Every product works across all skin tones.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's nobody who's left out.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's nobody who can't use it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and although they are at a higher price point, the quality meets it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because her products are just so good.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it should be at a higher price point.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've got like, you know, skincare creams that are like$800.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, but she's but you don't you don't regret buying anything for Pat McGrath.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's an investment, yes.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's worth the investment because it is just so good.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know any person who's into beauty that doesn't enjoy a Pat McGrath product.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Same.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: I use the I look at them as like collectibles, like all of her mothership palettes and her, yeah, absolutely.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have the Supreme um lipstick and I will never wear it just because I will never ever wear.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a I have I have you know a bunch of Pat McGrath lipsticks, but I will never wear that and I will just keep it as a keepsake because what is your favorite?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a nude by her that you really like?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: That you know off the top of your head?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, but I have a Gucci nude that I really like and I wear often, and it's complete.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember the exact name of the shade.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but Gucci has really great like matte nude lipsticks.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I really love their lipsticks too.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I always have to ask that because I can never find my nude ever.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, keep going.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: So Pat McGrath.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, and just honestly, like any brand that like gives back, like you know, like Thrive Cosmetics, excuse me, they're fantastic too, and they make great products.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just yeah, you know, any of those.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think um actually Dior makes really good like brow products too.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love like their brow, like Dior makeup, they make fantastic brow products.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I just actually finished my pencil and I'm upset about that.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: But Dior makes the best makeup.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love their makeup, like really good makeup, yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, there's a there's so many brands that I love that you know I get to work with all the time.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it's amazing.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, okay, I I want to ask you one question and I forgot to ask you earlier.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was the most unnecessary hurdle you ever had to go through in your career?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you know what I mean.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like the most, like you look back and you're like, why did that even happen?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, completely unnecessary.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like I I feel like every woman I've spoken to has one of those.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think just having to fight to to do something that just shouldn't have to be a conversation.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I do remember one time it was earlier in my career, um, there was a natural hair care brand that did something that people didn't like, and so they kind of came under fire for it, and they were, you know, getting Twitter dragged as people do these days.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I wanted to put the name of the brand in the head of the article, and the person who was, I guess, head of whatever was like, Well, nobody knows what that brand is.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why would you put it in the the headline?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, This is one of like the OG natural hair care brands, like people know it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Just because you don't know it, right, doesn't mean that other people will not know it.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it ended up being a story that was like on our top 10 traffic, did very well, and it was just it was such a hurdle to just get something so basic and a headline that it just didn't need to happen, you know, and it but I'm I'm I'm glad for that experience because I will say like there's just people who will try to block you based on their own understanding of something, right?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because their view is so limited, but that doesn't mean, but just because their view, and I think it's really easy for especially people who are very young and just starting out, it's very easy for somebody's limited view to try to limit you.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let them limit you because you do know what you're talking about, even if you're junior, if you know your stuff, you know your stuff, and you can learn something from everybody you work with, whether they're junior or senior to you, it doesn't matter, you know.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact that that woman wouldn't listen was insane, you know, and she was a non-black person trying to tell a black person about which natural hair brands don't work or not.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Was she white?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, she wasn't she was a POC, but she was not black, so okay, all right.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was it, it was that's ridiculous.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's ridiculous.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, honestly, like there's no like I just I I completely can understand your frustration there.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I would have just been like, what is wrong with you?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the issue here?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's very unnecessary.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's very, very necessary.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I well, you know, I commend you for handling that, and you know, look where you came, you're you're where you're at in your career, you know, that's really, really amazing.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I really I mean that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and also I want to ask you, this is super cliche, but like there's you know, I know there's younger audiences listening out there, and I want you to give some piece of advice, something, even if it's like a story that you remember that might, you know, someone listening out there can like relate to at some point.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Any kind of advice you have for like the next generation.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think stay true to who you are.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people have, you know, they're scared to be themselves, and you shouldn't be.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think being yourself is your honestly your greatest strength because nobody else can do that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people that are good writers, there's a lot of people that are good editors, there's a lot of people that can do good, you know, on-air interviews and whatever else, but nobody can do it like you.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's just, you know, because you have your own sauce, you have your own thing going on, you know, you do your you do you do things that you do in your own way.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, I think people need to be less afraid of bringing themselves into their work.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and don't try to, you know, copy somebody else's style, just be you, and that will really get you farther than you think.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean that's great advice.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good advice.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like kids nowadays don't really get that.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Kayla, it's been amazing.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: You are one of the coolest people I've ever spoken to.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that seriously, I I would love to stay in touch and talk again sometime because yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, everyone listening, please leave us some feedback on the cover art for this episode.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, ask Kayla some questions.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'll definitely pass them along to her.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And make sure to um subscribe to our podcast, rate it, comment on it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't care.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: What you comment anything, just comment.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'll talk to you.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 29:08
  unknown: Bye.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, this is Sexta.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to pop in again and give you another awesome rep uh recommendation of a line that I just discovered.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I found my new holy grail body butter body moisturizer.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even joking.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Tallula Skincare makes this amazing body butter.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this stuff is literally like silk, it just glides onto your skin.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's no sticky feeling or heavy feeling for all of the girls out there that know about you know using shea butter and using on our legs, it just gets really, really greasy, right?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this does not at all, and it smells amazing.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: So please go check out Tolula Skincare.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Alexis was the founder is such an amazing woman.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she is this is a black-owned business and it's just a beautiful, beautiful line.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it happens to be named after one of my favorite actresses, which is Tolula Bankhead.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, I would love it if you guys gave um the brand some love.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: It really deserves it.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I'm just I'm floored by the quality of this product, seriously.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So check it out, Talola Skin Care.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and no, I did not get paid for this or anything.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: This is I just like to tell you guys uh stuff that I really really like and stuff that really works.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for listening to this episode.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you guys enjoyed it and stay tuned for the next one.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 30:42
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• 30:47
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• 30:49
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• 30:52
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• 30:55
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• 31:04
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• 31:11
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• 31:21
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• 31:25
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• 31:30
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• 31:35
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• 31:41
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• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.