Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann

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The Disappearance of Madeleine McCann · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: On the evening of May third, two thousand and seven,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the sleepy resort town of Preya Dalous in Portugal was
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: thrown into chaos. A three year old girl had vanished
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: from her family's holiday apartment while her parents dined at
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: a nearby restaurant. The little girl was Madeline McCann, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: what followed was an unprecedented international search effort that capitalized
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: the world and turned the McCanns into household names.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim, a.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: True crime podcast.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Good Morning. The following podcast cemetery mature audience.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Listener dis question is that the double you wouldn't even
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: tell who was who?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't. You did a good job. You nailed that way.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I've been practicing.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's not something to flex on. Usually that
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: generally just means you're an alcoholic.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I haven't.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have been, don't lie.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I guess Okay, cheers, cheers. This is the last time
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Ben being done, because Ben's done.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: I'm done. It's it. I quit my nine to five
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: with the help of all you amazing, awesome people out there.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: I am pursuing owning my own company and Wicked and
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Graham and podcasting is a piece of that.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, what did we What did we keep saying
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: to each other? Because I think it was from a
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: we can't remember what movie it was, but it's basically
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: in there. I think they're on a date and got
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: one person's like, I'm an entrepreneur, and then the chick's like,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: so you're unemployed? Yeah, or you're not unemployed?
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's She's like, so you're unemployed and he's like, no,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur and she's like, so you're unemployed. I
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: can't remember what that's from, but yeah, I feel like.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Justin Timberlake is in that scene. I'm pretty sure unless
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I really am making shure.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, that that was the Facebook movie. What's it
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: fucking called?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. We actually just watched it recently.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: We did you guys know what movie we're talking about?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Justin Timberlake And oh, I forget his name too, he
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: plays the Facebook dude names right now. Anyways, it's the
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: one about Facebook and how it all got started and everything.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Ben is like really really tired, So it's probably good
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: that I'm presenting this case today.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Probably my sleep schedules are all over the place. It
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: hasn't been normal last few days. I'm exhausted.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: But you hit this for the first time in months. Yes,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: am I allowed to make fun.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Of you of that, go for it. I'm super sore,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: so yeah.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: But you're back at it. That's all that matters.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, it's it's exciting. What's going to be
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: coming down the pipe? This week marks the official start
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: of it all sure, done, done done, because it's probably
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: needing that dramatic effect music.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: This alcoholic beverage that I'm drinking currently is fucking amazing.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: It's actually distracting me every time I take a sip.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: The way you held your can up and said this
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: alcoholic beverage, it just pictured me seeing you in a
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: stand being like, I love this alcoholic beverage. Go generic
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: sports team like you know, it's just like so non descript, Oh.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: My gosh, with no it's a vodka soda verb. I
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: think it's called I've never had this wild strawberry.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: Lemon fantastic, Like holy shit, huh, So you're gonna be
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: buying those more often, that's what you're saying.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I think so, and I'm kind of disappointed now that
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I'm presenting, because I don't know if I'll be able
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: to drink this whole thing while it's cold.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: She got to get you a straw so you can
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: just like have it sit in your mouth as you're
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: reading and slowly sip away. Could you imagine just an
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: ivy maybe just hook it into your veins?
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, should do it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: So we have some patrons to think we do again.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: We have quite a few this week, thank you, We
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: do freaking much.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: And they're going to be subject to some awesome stuff
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: coming out on Patreon. Well starting the day you're listening
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: to this podcast, because it's about to get revamped reworked
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: with me going full time.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: So we actually already have something new we're putting out today.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: We do, which is kind of cool. Yeah, you gotta
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: have to go check it out though if you want
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: to know what it.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Is, well, we'll talk about it a bit at the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: end too.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Oh we will, Okay, Okay, we'll do that then. For now, though,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: we got to thank the people that signed up this
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: past week. So we have James Bamsey, Crystal Harvey, Courtney Garner,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Jessica Maury Tricia Leech s Alexia, I'm gonna probably say
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: her last name wrong, even though she gave us a
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: description on how to say it right. Vlenzuelia, I know
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I said that wrong. The Lenuelia, the Lenzuela. I'm butchering this.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I'm doing so bad. I'm sorry, Alexia. And then also,
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Lindy V.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: You gave it your best effort. That's all that.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Anyways, hold on, my eyes are like tired and I
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: can't even.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: See my lasses too. I just gotta throw that out there.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I think I do. Alexia, the Lenzuelia. Okay, a Lenzuela,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Alexia Belenzuela. There we go. I think I nailed it
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: on the.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Last one day. I think, well, you can let us know.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I even try to get Google to help me out,
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: and it was just actually it wasn't making a.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Difference, much to everybody's disbelief. We do use Google.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: The only difference between us and the other pronounce or
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: whatever you want to call it, Yeah, the whole like
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: Texas Beech thing, the difference between us and other podcasts
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: is we just don't it out and we just own it.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: And maybe we should sometimes or also I think a
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: lot of podcasts I've been listening to, well, I don't
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: actually listen to a shit podcast, but they then tell
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: me make it and like I'll be listening and I'm like,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: that's freaking wrongs. But they pronounce it so well and
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: they don't like overthink it that it's just like boom, yeah.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they just pretend that they're saying it right.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Well, when it especially comes to patrons, I am not
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: going to sit here and pretend I know how to
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: say their name correctly, you know, so I will apologize,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: But that is butcher.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That was a cool name, So there you go. I
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: feel like if you have a hard pronounced name, maybe
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: it's a cool name. Maybe maybe that's our names are
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: not hard to pronounce.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Ben and Nicole. That's about as standard and white as
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: you get.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Heay. But the amount of times, okay, we're going to
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: start here in one second. The amount of time though,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: I get asked, how do you spell your first and
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: last name? Mostly the last, like people that actually don't
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: know how to.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Spell it well, because with Gibson there could be two bees.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I guess, and like Nicole, sometimes they're gonna be an
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: h yeah. But but sometimes they generally, I think, don't know.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Do you ever get asked how to sell ben? Actually yes,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: but they're thinking it's Benjamin Benjamin.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, there's some stories about that that I'm not
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: going to dive into. But yeah, some people can fuck off.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I know my own name, tell me that. That's just
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: as far as I'll go.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure, it's ben Yeah, yeah, Okay, So let's
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: dive into this case here today we're talking about Madeline McCann.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I just shivered before you said the name, not after.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, this case, this case, actually, I mean a lot
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: of case are very interesting, with this one I find
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: very interesting and just like I don't know, this one
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: heart strings. Yeah. So Madeline McCann is a name we've
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: heard a lot about, right, especially recently with the recent controversy,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: But we'll get around to that closer to the end.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of coverage on this case and
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of opinions, but we're going to try our
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: very best to stick to the facts. So Madeline Beth
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: McCann was born on May twelfth, two thousand and three,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: in Leicester, England, her parents Gerald or Jerry. I'm going
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: to refer to him as Jerry Enough and Kate McCann
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: were both doctors, and shortly after they had Madeline, they
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: had a set of twins as well. In May two
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: thousand and seven, Jerry and Kate were going on a
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: holiday to Portugal with their three children, but they weren't
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: just going as a family. They were actually going with
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  Speaker 1: nine adults and eight children. Like, that's a gang and
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  Speaker 1: a half.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: It's a whole gaggle of people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're all going to Praya Dalouz to spend
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: some time together. The adults all knew each other in
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: some way, with a lot of them being doctors like
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  Speaker 1: the McCanns. They would later be dubbed to the media
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: as the Tapis seven because they dined together in the
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: resorts Tapis restaurant most evenings, being that all were vacation
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: in the same apartment complex. This meant that the adults
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  Speaker 1: could all pitch in to help look after each other's children,
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  Speaker 1: and they can make use of the hotel's daycare center
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  Speaker 1: and nightcare as well.
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  Speaker 2: Oh that's handy.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: That is handy, isn't it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: I do have to say though, being known as like
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: the Tapis seven, that's interesting. Like, I'm sure there was
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: a phase in my life where if I got murdered
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: or something and they come to my house, I'd be
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: known as like the Domino's box guy because of the
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: stack of Domino's pizzas, like in the garage and stuff.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Now we saw a good Yeah, there was when we
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: lived on at the other house because you could get delivery.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: We can't get delivery where we are now.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: And when we collected the little tabs off the boxes,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: you got like free pizza. So often you were.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Pissed when they took that away. It was because of COVID.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: COVID ruined a lot of things. Yeah, So the McCanns
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  Speaker 1: had apartment five A, which was one of the two
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: grand floor apartments in that particular building, and another of
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  Speaker 1: the families from their group had the other. But the
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: McCann's apartment was a little bit different. Therefore, the their
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: front door opened up onto the street outside the hotel complex,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and their balcony could be accessed by climbing up some steps.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: The patio door around the back of the apartment opened
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: up onto the hotel's pooled, the tennis courts and the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: restaurant in the bar. So they were like, you know,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like almost the place you could just get
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: everywhere from, no kidding.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: It was a very centralized location by the sound of it. Yeah,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: and I mean you have like I mean, it's good
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: to have access and egress on your balcony for fire
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: hazards situations. Oh safety over there, not anymore, just saying,
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: but I mean that that is always a plus. However,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: you got to make sure you are locking that.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: As yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. So this was the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: only way into the apartment that could be seen from
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: the inside of the hotel complex. Okay, the patio door. Sorry,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: we kind of chatted in between there, so that piece
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: of information is important that you could see that the
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: paddy door faced kind of the resort.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, and then from the resort you could see into
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: their apartment through the patio doors.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Well kind of. The adults kind of claimed that, I think,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: so okay. Because the adults of the group put the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: children to bed around seven pm every night, they then
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: would go to the Tapis restaurant at eight thirty. They
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: specifically asked for a certain table every night so that
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: they could see the apartments from the restaurant, but the
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: children were left alone when the adults went for dinner.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, how old were the kids? Sorry? Do we get there?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: You that here? Sorry, I am I getting ahead of
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: my They're.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Pretty young actually, well because Madeline is three, like almost four. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and the boys, the twins are younger.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's that's that's pretty sketchy to be leaving alone,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: even if you could just see the windows of your
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: apart apartment. That's kind of not.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we're touching on the first controversial point in
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the case. The restaurant that the group ate at every
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: night was about fifty five meters away from the apartments,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: but only if you could walk in a single straight line.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: To actually get to the restaurant from five A, you
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: had to go out onto the main street and go
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: down the street, meaning that you had to walk close
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to one hundred meters to get there. And the group
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: could actually only see the top of the apartment buildings,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: not the patio door, and definitely not the front door
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: from where they were sitting. But they had their own
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: way of making sure the children were all right. This
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: is what their way was. Okay, About every half an hour,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: one of the parents from each family would go and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: check on the children.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: So every half an hour they one of the sets
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of parents would leave the restaurant and go check on
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: their kids.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that's not perfect, but that's not bad.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I'm going to make the devil's advocate argument here of say,
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: the kids having an afternoon nap and parents who are
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: like I would never leave my kid at home alone. Sure,
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: you're right, but your kids having an afternoon nap, you
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: might be out in the backyard gardening, might not be
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: in the house to hear pop in the house every
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: half an hour or so. I don't see a whole
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: lot of a difference, really. I mean, there is a
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: little bit of a difference, but not.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: A it's a little bit more of a journey.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: It is, but there because what I see is if
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: they're sitting in a restaurant, they can't They might be
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: able to see the windows of flights go on or
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: something like that. Typically you'd think, but if you're going
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: into the building, that's when you'd hear crying, for example,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: you couldn't hear that from the restaurant.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: No, absolutely not.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: You probably wouldn't be able to hear crying. Say, if
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: you're in the backyard gardening or something like that too.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, chances are you might, but not always. There's
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: situations where it might be similar to you might as
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: well be across the street in a restaurant.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: So I'm not saying that what they're doing is good,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: but I'm saying that at least they have a solid
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: plan on how to take care of it and make
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: it a better situation.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're making somewhat an effort, Yes, but I think
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know nowadays, I'm just thinking that you couldn't
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: do that. No, no, right, I mean, but this isn't
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that long ago. This was in like two thousand and seven.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: No, well, I'm not saying they should do that. I'm saying,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent they should not be doing this. Yeah, however,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: it's not like they're that far off from what people
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: do in a regular basis anyways. Yeah, is what I'm saying.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, what they could have just done is one night,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: maybe the guys go out for dinner and the next
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: night the girls go out for dinner or something. Right,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: just switch it up exactly, Or they put all the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: kids in one room and like one person just has.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: To stay or bear with me here, this is a stretch.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: I know they get a babysitter.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because the place did apparently have a care
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: center exactly, so I don't know. Okay, So about every
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: half an hour, one of the parents from each family
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: would go check on the kids, So meaning that on
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: May or two thousand and seven, the first check happened
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: at about nine pm from the McCanns. Gary or Jerry,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Where did Gary come from? Jerry went first, Good old Gary.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: They had decided, you're not gonna like this part here.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: They had decided to use the patio door to get
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to the restaurant that night. Aw that was because the
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: children slept in the room closest to the front door,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: which the mccans kept locked, and they were afraid that
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: going in and out that way would wake up the children.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: But that also meant that the patio door that opened
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: up to the living room had to stay unlocked, because
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it only locked from the inside of the apartment.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't do that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that kind of just makes me shiver a little. No.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Rule number one of any sort of horror movie always
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: says that you lock your patio door when you are anywhere,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Lock your doors, lock your doors, hid your kids hi'd
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: your wife lock your doors? Right?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: So Jerry went into the apartment and went to the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: door to the children's bedroom. The twin twins were in
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: travel cots in the middle of the room, and Madeline
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: was in a bed close to the bedroom door and
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: opposite the only window in the room. The window faced
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the main street, not the hotel complex, but the metal
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: shutter was down and the only way to open it
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: was from the inside. The children were asleep. Madeline was
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: wrapped in bed with her comfort blanket, her toy called Cuddlecat,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and was wearing a pair of white and pink pajamas.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I hate the descriptions of that kind of shit. I
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: almost not everyone to put them in.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: That's because I know why those ties there too. Yeah.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: The only thing that really stood out to Jerry that
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: particular trip to check on the children was that he
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: remembered mostly closing but not fully closing the door to
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: the bedroom, and now it was actually completely open. He
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: did this same thing again, though mostly closed the door
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: to the bedroom, but nothing seemed out of the place.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: There was also a children's gate between the bedroom and
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the rest of the apartment and that was still closed,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: so Jerry let things be and went back to the restaurant.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: One of the adults of the group, a woman named
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: Jane Tanner, had also gone up to check on her
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: children at the same time. She remembers seeing how I
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: want to see Gary every time. Now this is gonna
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: fuck with me. Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: She remembers, just don't say it in the mirror three times,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: otherwise they'll show up.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: She remembers seeing Jerry outside five eighth talking to another
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: British person on holiday, but she also remembers seeing someone else.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: At around nine fifteen, Jane spotted a man carrying a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: young child and heading east away from the building. The
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: man looked to be in his mid thirties to early forties,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: with dark hair and dark eyes. Jane said that he
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: looked like he was either Southern European or Mediterranean. Only
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: about an hour later, this sighting would become hugely important
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: because the child he'd been caring had been wearing similar
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: pajamas as Madeline. Around nine thirty, when it came time
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to do the next rounds of checks, it was Kate's turn.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: She got up, but the father from the family next
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: door in five b Matthew Oldfield offered to check in
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: on the McCann's children while he was checking in on
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: his own. Kate sat down and Matthew went to the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: park to the apartment instead. He first checked on his
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: own children and then went into five A. There he
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: found the door to the children's bedroom again wide open,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: but he didn't go in. He had a quick look
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: into the room, but he couldn't hear anything. It sounded
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: like the children were still fast asleep, so he turned
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: around and left. That put the next check at ten pm,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: and this time Kate did go herself to check on them.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Kate left the restaurant and entered the apartment through the
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: unlocked patio door. The first thing she noticed was at
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: the door to the children's room was wide open, and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: when she went to close it, the door actually slammed
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: in her face. She opened it again, realizing that it
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: actually closed because of a draft. The shutter on the
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: window inside the room was up and the window was open,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: and Madeline was not in her bed.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: That is a moment where any parent their heart would
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: absolutely sink. Oh my gosh, yeah, holy shit, what I
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: just I mean, I'm pretty sure that it's not the case,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: but I'm going to just talk about this anyways, the
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: sighting of the individual carrying the child away in the
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: similar pajamas. What if it was literally just some dude
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: and his kid was just also wearing these like pink pajamas.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: He's carrying his kid somewhere.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: It was it was I'm going to say that later, but.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I was, oh, really, yeah, okay, yeah, it.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Was literally someone picking up their kid from that care
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: center and going back.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Hashtag called it so.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I had a feeling we were going to get onto this,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: and it was like, no, it was actually the dude.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: That's where I thought you were going to be going.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: But I was like, what if it's just some fucking
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: dude and.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: His some random Yeah, some random dude also on holiday
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: picking up his child and going home.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, how many little girls have like pink and
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: white pajamas?
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: A lot? I would assume.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would assume any father carrying his kid
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: to and from a daycare or to the apartment or whatever,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: their kid falls asleep on the road trip or in
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: his arms or whatever, it's just because it was late.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I have pink and white pajamas, for God's sakes.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah you do.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: So there you go.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: So it was just a dad carrying their kid. Yeah,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: but that's not to say that, uh, Madeline's still not missing.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: So both of the twins were still fast asleep, that
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Madeline wasn't anywhere in the apartment, and Kate went straight
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: into panic mode. She briefly searched the apartment and then
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: ran back towards the restaurant, screaming, Madeline's gone. Someone has
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: taken her. Both the group that the mccans were traveling
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: or both. Oh yeah, I did say that, right, the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: group that the mccans were traveling with and the hotel
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: staff sprang into action.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: The hotel staff too, Hey.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they had like a protocol thing.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Oh that's good. That's awesome, it's really good. Procedures are important.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: See coming from the safety professional background, procedures they are.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: They are very important. Yeah, they are.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming that kids have gone missing from
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the resort before, potentially not to this degree, but like
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: they wandered off while they're like oh fool or something. Right.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's why minimizing the risk, assessing the hazardous
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: situations where it can happen, and making sure you have
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: a procedure in place in the event of you can
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: follow it exactly, not to mention that you're also going
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: to do an investigation afterwards to ensure that you can
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: follow up on any risks and hazards and minimize them
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: even further.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: So that would be probably making sure your patio door
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: is locked and have not have your children alone.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, procedure for your house. Lock your doors, hide
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: your kids, hide your wife. There you go, We started
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: your procedure for you out post it.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: We're just saying facts here. We're trying not to judge
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: or not judging because like, no one ever in scenarios
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: like you're on vacation, you're like with your friends, you're
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: enjoying yourself. You're never going to be like especially in
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: that situation when you're relaxed, thinking of probably about worst
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: case scenarios. Right, So oh yeah, no, I'm I never
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: wanted this to happen.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: No, No, I'm being a little bit facetious here and
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: just kind of going over the top. No one's ever
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: going to be perfect. We don't expect everyone to lock
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: everything in their house every single day. Half the time,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: our front door isn't locked.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just say waited to stare that with everyone.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, now we're going to be locking it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. So by ten ten the police have been called,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and by ten thirty the hotel initiated it's Missing Children's protocol,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: putting every available staff member on searches throughout the entire
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: hotel complex. And they continued searching until four thirty in
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the morning. And I think a lot of actual hotel
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: guests also kind of joined the search, which is good, nice,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: good for them. So the first two officers arrived at
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: eleven ten, they did a brief search and called for
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: backup at midnight, with those people arriving at one in
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: the morning. The first person they tried to track down
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: was that man that Jane Tanner had seen around nine fifteen,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: especially because Matthew Oldfield couldn't remember if he'd specifically seen
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Madeline when he checked in on the children around nine
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to thirty, which is shitty.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I can't blame them, no, because like half
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: the time when people are checking on other kids will
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: just like listen in to the door.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Because then you know, whe will accidentally wake.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Them exactly, So I can't blame them for that whatsoever.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean it kind of sucks that they
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: didn't exactly know when the kids, Yeah, when Madeline.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: And let gone r The time frame is much more
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: than they could have been.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but the man the police were searching for
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: was one of many people witnesses saw around the apartment building.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Some witnesses were called seeing an ugly blonde man in
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: and around the hotel and days leading up to that night. Wow,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that's description, shitty description to have for yourself.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Watch it's just some other dude just staying there on vacation.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's this ugly blonde man that's been hanging
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: around and he's just like around the corner listening to
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: this Oh oh, sad ugly blonde man. Feel for him.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Several witnesses remember seeing a group of suspicious looking men
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: pretending to actually be charity workers. Another couple reported seeing
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: a man carrying a child wearing light colored pajamas. And
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not certain if this is the same man. This
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: is a different couple reporting it, so it could be
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: a different individual. This one was approximately five hundred yards
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: from the mccannsip apartment and was heading towards the beach,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and that was around ten that night, So I think
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: it's a different man. But and who knows this could
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: be the man that had Madeline.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Five hundred yard that's a long ways, yeah.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Because that the Jane person saw the kid at nine
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: point fifteen, and that one was deemed to be a
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: like also holiday person, Okay, and so I'm assuming that
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: person probably wasn't five hundred yards away, So I'm thinking
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: this is a different, different spotting. So some of these
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: men were tracked down. Some of them were actually already
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: on police's radar because the area was experienced a peak
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of burglaries at the time. The block the McCanns were
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: staying on had two break ins in the seventeen days
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: before Madeleine's disappearance, but no one could find the man
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: that Jane Tanner claimed to have seen at nine point fifteen,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: And there were more than a few reasons for it.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: In those I've already spilled the beans on that, and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to continue on the fucking fair enough.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Just go with your script for now.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So, in those very critical first hours of Madeline's disappearance,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the police response was questionable, and I hate when we
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: have to say that, but we're just giving facts here.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: So they arrived late, even though they were within close proximity.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: They didn't inform the Border or the Marine police right
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: away of the situation or give them a description of
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Madeline's appearance.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Are you kidding? Yeah, on a fucking missing child. Yeah,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: where chances are if they have been kidnapped, the person
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: is literally fleeing running away with them. Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: So so those people who have been on alert for this, right.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's the first thing you want to do
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: is make sure you inform everyone in the area to
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: be on the lookout.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't do house to house searches in the
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: area and they didn't set up roadblocks until ten the
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: following morning, but that, unfortunately wasn't all they did wrong.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: What the fuck did they do?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: They also didn't interview everyone staying and working at the hotel,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: and to top it all off, the crime scene didn't
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: get secured properly. Samples taken from the room came back
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: with DNA belonging to an identified person, but by the
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: time the samples had been sent to the lab, about
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: twenty people had been in and out of the apartment.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah wow, So that's like a lot of things that
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: could have messed up this investigation.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: No kidding. I mean unless you're able to identify and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: track exactly who's been in and out and why and everything,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: then you it would take a lot of time and resources,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: but you'd be able to weed them out then. But still,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: holy fuck, Okay.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I know, because I don't think they were really been
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: tracking that, Like they probably know which twenty were in there,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: like which hotel staff.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Are in there, Like yeah, like it's Steve the bellhop
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: who's been here for a week. He's up there for
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: who knows what.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Well, everyone's frantic and I'm sure all the hotel stuff
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: was like frantic and trying to help and.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know, don't get me wrong, I'm just.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I'm not saying but it's just a shitty situation.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who knows who's gone and if they haven't secured
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: it properly, like someone just wandering in there for weird
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: odds and ends reasons that probably people don't even know
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: what they're being they're actually in there.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: No, yeah, so they know.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Probably about twenty people. There's probably twenty.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Plus, Yeah, because lot of times you what's the word,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: But if you're like in the wrong, you Oh, I
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: can't think of the word, but you lesser it, lesser
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: the blow than it actually should be. Right, Oh, that's
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the word.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know what you're trying to say, but I
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: don't know if I know the word you're thinking about all.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: You're trying to like say like oh, instead of being
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: like I only did this.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I only or I spent five hundred bucks, but then
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: you actually spend a thousand.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so when you come home from a shopping spree,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I didn't spend that much. She was only five hundred bucks.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Look at the receipts. It was actually a thousand. Yeah,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: there you go. That's a good analogy.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Moving on, Jerry and Kate tried to take matters into
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: their own hands, and they tried to keep the momentum
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: building on Madeleine's case. Jerry's plan was to use the
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: media to keep the public aware of his daughter's disappearance
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: so the tips and leads could keep on coming. But
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: what happened was something rarely seen before. Jerry hired a
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: team of pr consultants from Britain and had them come
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: to Priya doll loose. Most said that wrong. The constant
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: media attention worked in keeping the public talking about and
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: searching for Madeline. That's good, but it created a lot
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: of tension between the McCanns and the local police. The
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: police argued that the constant media presence and the journalists
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: in and around the area were getting in the way
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: of the investigation. We're actually hurting Madeleine's case.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I have a counter argument for that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: What invest Oh you went there? Hey, you went there.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: The tension ended up rising so high that the British
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: government ended up sending its own press officers to try
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: to manage the situation. But the outporth support from the
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: public was huge already. By May fifteenth, only twelve days
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: after Madeline had gone missing, the mccans had created a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: fund named Madelin's Fund, Leaving No Stone unturned. The fund's
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: website had over fifty eight million hits on the first
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: two days it was live.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And the fund created a place where people could go
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: make donations and support the search. Wow, so that is
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: pretty impressive, no kidding. The fund ended up paying for
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: the McCanns to follow leads in other Portuguese cities, and
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: even sent them to Halland Germany and Morocco. By May thirtieth,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the McCanns were flown out to where they got to
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: meet the pope. But this was was all of this
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: getting them anywhere and finding Madeline.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just wondering, Okay, what does that have
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: to do with finding their kid?
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. But they were religious, so maybe
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: they were thinking, like by going and meeting them and
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: like in some sort of religious ceremony of.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Sorts like that could prayers and blessings or something. Yeah, okay, okay,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: fair enough.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: So I don't think I had said in there that
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: they were like had religious beliefs. The police believed they
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: found the answers and it was all thanks to Jane
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Tanner's sighting. About one hundred and thirty seven meters east
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: from five A lived thirty four year old Robert Marat,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and he was a man that police knew well. Robert
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: was a British property consulted and when he heard about
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: what had happened just down the street from him, he
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: jumped at the opportunity to help. Robert translated for the police,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: doing everything he could to get them and the McCann's
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: closer to finding their daughter. That was until he was
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: named an official suspect in Madeleine's disappearance. All of this
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: stemmed from him catching the description of the man Jane
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: had seen heading east carrying a child that night, and
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: because a journalist reported to the police that Robert had
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: been asking about the investigation. So he basically kind of
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: matched that description and he was asking questions. Yeah, so,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: and he was known for police I guess right.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. I mean it's reasonable suspicion at that point,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: so I can't argue that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So his home was searched, he and two of
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: his friends were interviewed, but the police found nothing. Robert
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: said that he'd offered to help because he had a
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: daughter in England around the same age as Madeline, but
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: the police and the public were still not convinced he
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: was publicly slandered.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Oh fantastic.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: His friend's car was torched and spray painted on the
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: pavement next to it read FLA I believe it's pronounced,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: which says speak like it means speak yes. So the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: next thing anyone knew, the friends the McCanns had been
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: on holiday with remembered feeling suspicious of Robert, and witnesses
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: replacing him at the scene too. Years later, police confirmed
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: the identity of the man Jane had seen that night.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: He was another British holiday maker. I don't know is
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that the right word, British holidaymaker?
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: That sounds like when of sand his little elves.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know, on holiday. I don't know why I
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: have that in there.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, he was another British dude on holidays.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who was on his way to his apartment after
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: picking up his daughter from the hotel's night care. So
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: there you go, called it. Robert and his friends were
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: vindicated and managed to sue for like compensation. Good They
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: collected hundreds of thousands of pounds, but only after and
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: during years of abuse and suspicions from both the locals
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and the general public. But if Robert hadn't take hadn't
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: taken Madeline, then what had happened to her? We're no
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: closer again, right.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But I do want to just say, like
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: the police being like, oh, you're interfering with our investigation,
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: and their investigation leads to just slandering someone who's completely innocent.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Well it's really shitty because that guy that he had,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: from what we know, he had the peers of intentions
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: of just helping.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: And sometimes, I mean, this is so bad, but just
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: like the world we live in, sometimes you almost don't
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: want to help.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because then you're implicated, you're part of it, and
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: you can get hurt or whatever to perform and you're
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: in the limelight or line of fire.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because he had that for years. Right, Yeah, this
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: is like his name just being shit.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure, and I'm sure his reputation even after
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: the fact, was still tarnished quite a bit. Yeah, because
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: people don't generally turn around and bring the sunshine your
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: way when you're proved innocent. Right, it seems to be like, oh, yeah,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I know, he was like an outcast for a long time.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: We're just going to still continue to avoid him, especially
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: because we feel bad because we were the one are
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: part of the whole like slandering group of people. Yeah,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: you know, so he's just still an outcast, still name tarnished,
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: and trying to live a normal life.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: From what I read, a lot of the reports did
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: say he kind of from numerous means, got a lot
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of money because like articles from different new sources and stuff, right,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Like he was able to kind of get some compensation
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: from that. So hopefully he at least ended up with
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: a chunk of change. I guess.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: I just hope that he monetary value or whatever aside.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I just hope he has a normal life. Yeah, I
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: hope this did not affect him negatively mentally and all
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. I hope that just today he's
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: just doing good. That's what I hope.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Oh man, oh man, Okay, where are we here? So
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: by then the police opinion of the McCanns had actually shifted,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: and they asked for British sniffer dogs to come be
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: brought to the apartment to search. Sniffer dogs. That sounds funny, Hey,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I think that's what they're called. The one dog was
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: trained to give a reaction to the smell of human
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: blood and the other to the scent of a human cadaver,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: and they came back with the results that blew this
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: case wide open. It's interesting. I can't remember which dog
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: was witch, but one of them, oh man, I don't
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: know which one, but one of them, when they got
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: what they were supposed to be like like, barked and
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: they only barked kind of when they.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, give their sign or whatever. But I don't know
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: the cadaver one I'm sure. I mean, there's there's a
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: distinct smell of death, but blood. I mean, what if
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: someone was just like cutting an ingrown toenail and like
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: drop of blood goes beside the bed or something.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: You lose a lot of blood from that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Cut your finger in the kitchen or stub your toe
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: out in the bathroom hall or like.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the cadaver would kind of maybe show a bit more.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, that one I could see. But I'm
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm uneducated in sniffer dogs. Maybe it has
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: to be a whole lot of amount for the dog
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: to actually like pick up on it or something. I
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: The other dog that's reaction, I think would just like
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: sit and stare at the spot. So they had like
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: different trainings for that. But very interesting. I think that
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: would be such an interesting job to work with one
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: of those dogs.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: Anything involving dogs, you're just like, sign me the fuck
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: pretty much.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: The other day, I think I told her friend. I
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: was like, we should open a candle, Ben and I
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: should open a candle And she was like, with all
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: your free time, hey yeah, no, I was like, we'd
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: be really good at it though, but no, so both
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: dogs alerted since behind the sofa in the living room
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: of the apartment. They also detected something on the car
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: the McCanns had rented, But the McCanns had rented this
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: car a few weeks after Madeline had disappeared, and it
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: was something was detected on Madeline's cuddle cat toy. So
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: the very next day the Portuguese press began running stories
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: about how Jerry and Kate had probably killed Madeleine and
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: tried to cover it up. But that was at the
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: end of July and they were already printing what was
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: considered old news because by the beginning of June, the
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: international press had turned on the mccans. Do you remember this?
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I feel like I remember this happening.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: I don't, but I'm I'm kind of wavering on some
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: of the stuff with the dogs. It seems like a
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know, not a foolproof thing, almost like a polygraph.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: It's a quasi type science because you're telling me, okay,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: they had a positive response on a rental car. A
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: rental car. How many other people use this car prior
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: to them? What else happened in this car? As far
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: as I'm concerned that one should be out the window.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Well I think they had even said like Madaline's scent
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: of sorts could have been like on the or no,
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: none on them. That must not have worked because the luggage,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: her luggage would probably not have been in there. This
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: car was rented after so never mind take that out.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: But this is and then the toy. So we're talking
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: blood and deceased, right, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: a deceased child holding the toy. A blood maybe and
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: kids scrape their knees who knows what, and they could
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: get on there, no problem, totally a couch again blood,
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: who knows and get on a couch easy enough. What
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: if there's a dead mouse in the wall behind the
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: couch or something.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Or someone could have passed away in that that apartment
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: or something. We have done cases where the dogs have
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: gotten it wrong.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And I'm making up different possibilities and what
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the dogs are actually hitting on. What did they do
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: just straight up get it wrong? Yeah, I don't know.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I don't I'm not sold on that at all. Yeah,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: especially the rental car one.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: That one's just like, it's far fetched.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: There's way too many variables in that situation as far
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: as I'm concerned.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So, German, Portuguese, and British papers had been publishing
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: stories suggesting that Jerry and Kate had had something to
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: do with their daughter's disappearance. Some suggested that the whole
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: group were a group of swingers and they all actively
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: sedated their children so that they could party undisturbed.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Some suggested that Madaline had died of a result of
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: the sedation, and that was why the whole group was
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: work working so hard to cover things up. These claims
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: were somewhat backed up when the Portuguese police shared stories
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: about the remaining McCann children. According to investigators, the twins
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: had stayed asleep all through the night, even when the
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: entire room had turned into a crime scene and people
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: were in and out. Kids can sleep through like extensive things, though,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: and they not. They can surprising things.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I feel like, yes, now, if kid falls asleep, they
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: have a weird ability. It seems like some not all kids,
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: not all kids, but they have a surprising ability to
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: just sleep through anything.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Like sometimes I feel late, Okay, lately I've been having
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: sleeping issues, which is a new thing, and I sometimes
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: just think about how when you were a kid, like
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: you just like literally get the best fucking sleeps ever,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Like you just don't wake up and you just actually
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: feel rested when you wake up in the morning, and.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Shit, yeah, and then you get older and you're just like,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: why does everything hurt? And why can't I fall asleep
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: and get rested? Yeah, And even when you do fall
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: asleep and get rested, you wake up with a new
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: invigoration of tiredness still looming over you.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Adult life out. The police also publicly asked why Kate
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: had discovered that one of her children had gone missing
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: and then immediately left after or left her other two
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: children in the room to go and alert the others.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: That was something she was questioned about, like why didn't
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: she just shout out to them or phone them on
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: their cellphone or something.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: Because they were just right there across the street and
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: she wanted to and get their help immediately, and she's panicking.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: That's why she wasn't thinking clearly. So Jane, Matthew, and
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the two parents, so four of the nine adults were
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: being questioned in regards to some of their behavior. Jane,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: who could have allegedly made up her observation altogether of
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: spotting a man carrying a young child. Matthew could have
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: volunteered to check on the children at nine point thirty
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: because he had ulterior motives and actually handed Madeline out
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to someone on the streets. Jerry for intentionally misdirecting police
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: by giving contradictory statements and Kate's cries of they've taken
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: her were intentional in order to point the investigator investigators
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: towards a kidnapping rather than a murder.
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: No, on that one. I'm sorry. If an investigation is occurring,
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: you should not assume that the parent knows exactly what happened,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: or anyone knows exactly what happens. You start from square one.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's solely on investigators, even if she was doing
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: that or not, just say yeah.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: But then there were so many reports to that basically,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was a lot of reports actually about
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the parents and a lot I think in a lot
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: of interviews and stuff, they like they portrayed themselves pretty well,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: but they were also being like advised to as well
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: because they didn't. They were kind of saying like, don't
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: show like your fear, your emotion to the person that
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: has potentially kidnapped your kid, right, Yeah. And then also
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: with them being doctors, like I don't know, I feel
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: like doctors lots of times they are all like delivering
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: bad news and dealing with like really bad shit often
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: that they may have like a really good coping mechanism
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: probably right to like not show stuff.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they see death and sad people and like say,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: delivering these news all the time, so they probably have
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: that kind of numbness to it a little bit already
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: inherently built into them.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: Like it's their own kid, so it's different. Yeah, sure,
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: but they could have a coping mechanism different than just
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: like say, you and I maybe definitely.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: And I do want to preface this not to say
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: it it isn't possible that the parents aren't responsible. Yeah,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I just don't see it.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I know, I don't feel like I see it too.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: But sometimes in the back of my head, I'm like, oh,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: could they have?
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: But they could have, but what we've been presented with
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: so far, everything seems too far fetched. Yeah, now it's
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: possible that that is the truth. It's just like, if
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: that is the truth, it's like, holy fuck, that's that's
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: a very specific way and specific things, an odd, odd
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: way for it to be happening. M h.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I think there's only question in my mind because I
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: remember when the media had kind of turned on them,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: and so I think that's in my mind, like just
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: hearing that and being holy crap, like could these parents
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: have done this? Right?
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah? So, I mean, also, we have to look at
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: the idea. And I'm not saying that investigators or authorities
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: or are bad individuals, but say a certain individual in
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: the investigation screw the so bad because clearly the investigation
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: didn't go how it should have in the earlier stages. Right,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: what if to get back their own reputation or clear
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: things up, they decided to, well, they were going to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: chase down what we all know to be the first
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: people to look at the parents, the spouse, the husband,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: the family members. Yeah, well I screwed the Poots so bad.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put the spotlight on the parents. Clearly
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: it was them, and I'm going to get my career
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: back on track by blaming them and painting them in
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: the negative light.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's so interesting that you say this. So after
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: this episode's done, we're going to do another like mini episode,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: like a post episode that we're posting in Patreon. Yep,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: going over like nine different theories out there, and that's
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: literally one of the theories.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there we go.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: So there you go. If you want to like divulge
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: in the theories with us, then you can do that
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: over on Patreon. Okay, So the poortraies Portuguese police announced
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: that Jerry and Kate were suspects in the case, the
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: leading theory being that they'd killed Madeline, either intentionally or
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: by accident, hid her body, and then dumped it much
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: later on when everyone was busy looking for a kidnapper.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: The McCanns ended up leaving Portugal under advice from their
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: legal team, which I'm sure was not easy, being that
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: their little girl had not been found. The Portuguese police
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: continued to leak stories to the press, and the public
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: opinion continued to divide. In October two thousand and seven,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: only a month after the McCanns were declared as suspects
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: in the case by Chief Inspector Amriol, Amriol was removed
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: from his post as the Inquirer's coordinator. This was part
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: due in his criticism of British police investigators, saying they
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: only pursued leads in the McCann's favor and his involvement
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: in a similar case. So the disappearance of Joanna Cypriana
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: was who disappeared on August twelve, two thousand and four,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: at eight years old. So Amriel was accused of having
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: covered up for other officers and convicted of having falsified
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: police documents in the case. He received an eighteen month
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: suspended sentence. So Joanna went missing three years earlier and
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: only seven miles from where Madeleine went missing.
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Oh shit.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: So like Madeleine, she is not yet to be found.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: But at one point her mother and her uncle were
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: convicted of her murders. Who actually they were convicted of
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: her murder. Her mother later retracted her confession, saying that
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: she'd only confess because the police had beaten her during
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: her interrogation. It was apparently like a forty eight hour
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: interrogation or something.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck, Oh thank you. I know that's like highly
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: illegal shit going on with that.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just like I can't even want Yes, there
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you go. So Amorel was not present during the alleged assault,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: but that is what I believe he was accused of
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: covering up seems like a similar m to Madeleine's case too.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Not the police assaulting the parents per se, but a
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: young girl missing and the family being put to blame
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: by the police. Yeah, Amorel did go on to write
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: a book alleging that Madeleine had died in an accident
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: in the apartment, and then mccans went about covering it
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: up by faking a reduction. The McCanns did take legal
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: action against him and his publisher.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Wow, just falsifying information. There's no facts on the shit,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: and he's just being like.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Really yeah, and in that book, I was like in
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: and out of courts and stuff, but like tons of
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: copies got sold, which is really fucked actually, no kidding. Yeah,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: But then like some of the in the case, so
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: it was like, that's just freedom of speech and stuff,
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, actually, I don't know if it is,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: because at the time of the investigation he was in
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: a position that shouldn't be able to just like willy
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: nilly push it out there.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a difference between freedom of speech and slander. Yeah,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: if you are out there publishing information in a book
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: as fact that certain people are murderers, that's going to
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: have implications on their lives. That is slandering them. Yeah,
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: so you have complete legal action to course or sorry,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: legal course to take action against that one hundred percent.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: If he publishes a book and he says I feel
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: they're not good people, that's different. That's a personal opinion
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: as opposed to they are murderers. Here are the facts?
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: What facts? It did not go to court.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I just feel like the McCanns, the parents just were
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: like drug through the mud. Hey, it sounds like like
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: it's so if I mean and just so, I mean
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: they had enough stress of their child being missing and
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: now all this additional stress just I don't know, it's
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: almost how would you even survive? Really?
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a good question actually.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: So moving on. About a year later, in the summer
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: of two thousand and eight, the Portuguese Attorney General announced
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: that there was no evidence to tie the mckens to
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Madeleine's disappearance and close the case. What followed in the
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: years after were a lot more theories, a lot more investigations,
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: but ultimately no answers. To this day, no one can
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: positively say, without a shadow of adult what happened to
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Madeline and who did it. Though The case has been
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: in the news recently for two reasons.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: M M wait two, I know oneas oh snap.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: So first being with Christian Brucker, who was a German
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: national who has emerged recently as the prime suspect in
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: the disappearance of Madeleine. He was identified as a suspect
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, and in June twenty twenty, German authorities
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: announced that they had evidence suspecting he was responsible or
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: sorry suggesting that he was responsible for Madeline's disappearance and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: her presumed death. So they're basically saying this guy killed her. However,
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: he is yet to be convicted in connection with the case,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: and the investigation remains ongoing. But it's very like recent.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: He's like the most recent suspect I guess out there.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And it's basically just being that he was kind of
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: in the area at the time, and that he had
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: like a past record kind of of like sexually assaulting
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: tourists and like.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Gotcha, shit, is he by any chance really ugly and blonde?
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe? Actually is he? I don't know. I did actually
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: see a photo of him. I can't remember if he
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: was blonde or not.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: But he was ugly.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, let's say. Yeah, I can't like
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I can picture his face, but I can't like picture
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: his face, But that makes sense.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: I'm still just picturing some really ugly blonde dude out there,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: just really sad.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I know, they're so sad that they just have been
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: reported so many times as being ugly.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just got no friends. He's just trying to
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: enjoy his life on vacation, and he's just people just said, yeah,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: I saw is an ugly blonde guy.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Now he also has no friends.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or ugly blonde man? Oh shit, I feel so
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: bad for him.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Oh so what if he is a complete asshole? Though?
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: What if he is the sweetest man alive?
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Anyway? Moving on, the second reason that this has been
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: in the news recently is the recent claim from Julia
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Wendell claiming to be Madeline McCann. So is that the
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: one you know of?
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know of this one, though I didn't read
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: many articles on it because I was not wanting to
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: get emotionally attached. I was waiting for results.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I did go down quite a bit of a
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole, actually, but I didn't really put all of
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: that in here because I just I don't know, for
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: many reasons. Maybe I'll talk about it more. We'll see,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: we'll see what I did. I actually choose to put
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: in here. So she drummed up a huge Instagram following
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: after creating account called I Am Madeleine MCCAINN. When I
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: first came across this account, I actually took a screenshot
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember, and I posted it
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: in Patreon. The count at that time had one million followers.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: I do believe that it's been since like taken down
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: and the whole time, the whole thing has ultimately turned
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: into a disappointing mess. The DNA results revealed that Julia
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: is not Madeline. She claims now that she never said
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: she was Madeline McCain and used the sentence to create
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: a nickname for an old Instagram account, which was a mistake,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: and now she appalledgizes for that. But ultimately I cannot
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: even imagine the old wounds that this opened up for
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: the McCanns. No shit, Julia's parents are hoping they can
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: get their daughter the help she needs. She has a
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: new Instagragram account where there are new issues being brought up,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: like with the self professed psychic called doctor Fia Johanson
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: who involved herself in Julia's case kind of as her spokesperson,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: and I kind of seemed like it was being done
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: for potential fame herself. But all in all, I think
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: that she needs to just get out of the headlines
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: at this point, because I'm not even putting her new
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: Instagram in here. I did, like check it out, and
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. That's just all I'm
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: going to say about that. Fair enough, So older cases
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: being brought to attention can definitely be helpful at times,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: I do think so, right, like, because it maybe people
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: remember something or trigger something, right.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely, No, it's it's better to keep.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Stories alive, yes, but in the right way.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: In the right way, yeah. Not for personal gain or
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: emotional gain or anything. It's I mean, it's not a
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: story for yourself. It's not something for you to gain from,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: to be fair, I mean, yeah, of course, news media podcasts,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: there is monetary gain from it in certain aspects. However,
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: to sit here and say I'm going to claim to
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: be a potentially missing child or deceased individual and gain
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Instagram fame for it, and that is your motive, Like
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: what the buck?
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: And see, i'mon't even like you never know what is
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: going on in person's mind, like like she maybe did
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: help need help, she maybe did believe that she actually was.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: I know she was trying to figure out some of
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: her past stuff and I know she did have some
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: trauma in her past. So but still like that is
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just oh, like something you can't just
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: be like apologized for later because just amount of oh
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: shit that it just brought up, probably for so many people,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: is really really gross.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I honestly think that that should be going into something
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: like identity thefter fraud as far as I'm concerned.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's no shorts of information out there in
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: regards to this case, so if you're interested in a
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: more In March of twenty nineteen, Netflix released an eight
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: part docu series that's titled The Disappearance of Madeleine McCain.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: It did renew a lot of interest in the case,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: but as I've said, there's unfortunately still no clear answers
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: of what happened to Madeline.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: That's unfortunate.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the fact that she's just a three
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: year old little girl, well she's basically almost four, but
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: still huh, that is too young.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Hopefully she's much older now. Yeah, hopefully she's still around
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: and she's she's older than that.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: M h. And yeah, so we're about to do a
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: post show on Patreon and there's a there's a list
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: of just the theories and some of them do potentially
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: involve her still being around. So yeah, we're going to
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: dive into those.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we usually do a pre show where we're talking
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: a little bit of stuff, and so a post show
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: is a little bit different for us. We're gonna given
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: a shot see how it works out. So head on
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: over check it out if you want to take a look.
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: Link is down in the description below. You can follow
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: that link, hit us up on Patreon. Could check out
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: all the social media's if you want, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: you name it, and they're all about to start getting
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: a lot more content putting up here pretty quick.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: A little more traction.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good episode though, I mean, I
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: really do feel for Madeline, and I also feel for
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: the ugly blonde man.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: Too, oh my gosh, and the parents and the parents.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: The parents for some reason just like break my heart
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: a little because I just I mean, we don't have kids,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: but just the thought, like I mean they say, like
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: what when you have a kid, it's like your heart's
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: almost living outside your body, right, and then that's just
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: being taken away, Like how do you survive?
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let me think of it like that movie dragon Heart,
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: Remember that old movie back in the day, dragon Heart.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: The dude needed like to survive, so he went to
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: the dragon, the king or something like that, got a
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: piece of his the dragon's heart, to put in his
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: son to let him survive. And then yeah, they shared
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: a heart, so the only way to kill one was
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: to kill the other. So in the movie, he's like
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: getting stabbed in the heart and as he's the son's
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: getting stabbed later on, like the dragon's feeling the pain.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: And yeah, well I lost Honey today for about five minutes,
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: and I lost was losing my ship.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: So our dog, Honey, our dog. Yeah no, she wasn't
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: raging over the pantry.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Because yeah, if you're new here, we have a dog
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: named Ripley and Honey and Honey is an asshole that wow,
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: she kind of is. I'm actually a little pissed at
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: her today. She he gets out of the yard occasionally
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: does which is a husky thing.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: She doesn't though.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: She gets out of the art only when Ben's not here,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: so it's just all me. And usually, like I notice
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: right away and then I call her and she comes back.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: And today she didn't come back right away, and I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: kind of lost my shit a little.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: Actually she came back, it was just a little longer.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: She was a little bit farther away this time.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a brat.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: She is a brat, but she's cute, so it's okay.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: She makes up for it.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: My apologies for calling her dog an asshole.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: You're not sorry at all. She also abuses our animals.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and you one that would know me,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: like what abused them with? Like too many cugs and kisses.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you hug them too tight and you strangle them.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I'm just obsessed with them. I can't
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: love them enough. No, they're so cute.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Look at them right now.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: I know they're perfect, well not perfect from like ninety
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: nine percent.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Kiwi's perfect. The cat, the dogs, I don't know.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Their life is a little rough.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Holy eck. Okay, on that note, thank you so much
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: for being here and listening, and until next Tuesday.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: Until next Tuesday, when I'm finally getting the case that
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: had been working on for a little while. Oh yeah,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: until
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Then, stay wicked.