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ITB: What Will it Take for Eagles Defense to go From Good to Super Bowl Level? · Inside the Birds: A Philadelphia Eagles Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Inside the Birds is back. What's going on, everybody, It's
0:14
Speaker 1: Jeff Mosher Dadan Kaplan. It's Inside the Birds. We're finishing
0:18
Speaker 1: a really cool two part podcast series. We do it
0:20
Speaker 1: pretty much every year for the last few years, and
0:22
Speaker 1: it is us giving the keys to the Eagles getting
0:25
Speaker 1: back to the super Bowl. On Monday, we went through
0:28
Speaker 1: keys offensively, and there were a lot just because of
0:31
Speaker 1: the new offense, new environment, new coaching scheme that they're implementing,
0:36
Speaker 1: both in blocking and then just design defense, Adam, not
0:39
Speaker 1: a whole lot of newness, but a defense that really
0:43
Speaker 1: can lift this team to the Super Bowl. This to
0:46
Speaker 1: me is a super Bowl caliber defense as long as
0:50
Speaker 1: it follows through with some of the keys that we're
0:52
Speaker 1: going to lay out.
0:54
Speaker 2: Hey, look, the upside of this defense is really good.
0:56
Speaker 2: But they have some questions. And then remember this show
0:59
Speaker 2: is about what's it going to take for this side
1:01
Speaker 2: of football to be championship level, to be super Bowl level.
1:05
Speaker 2: It's a little bit more in depth and detail than
1:08
Speaker 2: you think it is. It's not as quite as easy
1:11
Speaker 2: as looking at a depth chart or okay, well, Fancho's back,
1:13
Speaker 2: They're good now. It's not that easy, right, sure, there's
1:16
Speaker 2: some challenges a little bit more than you probably think.
1:18
Speaker 2: That's the beauty of doing this thing.
1:20
Speaker 1: I like how you say that this is more in
1:22
Speaker 1: depth than people think, because when we did our offensive show,
1:25
Speaker 1: if anybody thought one of the keys to victory, for
1:29
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, keys to getting back to the super Bowl
1:31
Speaker 1: is the offensive line staying healthy, well, yes we agree,
1:34
Speaker 1: but we didn't sit there and browbeat that for ten
1:36
Speaker 1: minutes because that's obvious. We went inside way more nuanced
1:41
Speaker 1: stuff that deals with the offense and the same thing
1:43
Speaker 1: with the defense. Sometimes, especially in the sum we talk
1:47
Speaker 1: so much ball, you and I, whether it's here on
1:50
Speaker 1: camera for our inside the Birds listeners or just on
1:52
Speaker 1: the phone all throughout the year, that like, we start
1:56
Speaker 1: to develop same brain I forget what they call that,
1:58
Speaker 1: that syndrome where you're just start to think in the
2:00
Speaker 1: same wavelength. Because when I was thinking of this defense,
2:05
Speaker 1: I had a thought about what it would take to
2:07
Speaker 1: get at the super Bowl level that I didn't I
2:09
Speaker 1: don't think is obvious to our listeners. And I've been
2:12
Speaker 1: thinking about it for a while and I had it
2:14
Speaker 1: in my head. And then you sent an email of
2:16
Speaker 1: some things you wanted to you thought were important to
2:18
Speaker 1: talk about, right, And your number one point that you
2:21
Speaker 1: want to highlight just is happened to be something I've
2:23
Speaker 1: been thinking about quite a bit lately, and it is
2:26
Speaker 1: the idea that if you've got a lot of talent
2:30
Speaker 1: at a position, you should figure out how to get
2:33
Speaker 1: it all on the field, even if that's not been
2:36
Speaker 1: your mo And we've talked about Vic Fangio being sort
2:40
Speaker 1: of married since he's been here, to really having a
2:42
Speaker 1: three man edge rotation, a two to three person DT rotating.
2:47
Speaker 1: He does not like to run, He's not Jim Schwartz.
2:49
Speaker 1: Jim Schwartz would just in and out.
2:52
Speaker 2: It was like a dizzy. It was a circus. Right.
2:55
Speaker 1: But I look at this front seven and I clearly
2:57
Speaker 1: you do too, and you see room for to expand
3:00
Speaker 1: that philosophy and get more good players on the field,
3:04
Speaker 1: give guys rest, get rotations going.
3:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's get started. So on that point we've
3:09
Speaker 2: talked recently. We haven't talked about this a lot since
3:12
Speaker 2: Faner has been here, at least on the coach staff,
3:14
Speaker 2: not about it as a consultant, but as a coach.
3:16
Speaker 2: We haven't really talked about this much because you can't
3:19
Speaker 2: argue with success. He's brilliant. The guy knows what he's doing.
3:22
Speaker 2: He's won the best in NFL history. But one of
3:25
Speaker 2: the I think valid criticisms of talking to people work
3:27
Speaker 2: with him in particularly with the Niners, is that doing
3:32
Speaker 2: the super Bowl run, he was a decoordinator. They lost
3:34
Speaker 2: to the Ravens in the Super Bowl. That they gave
3:38
Speaker 2: up a lot of points in that game. They lost
3:41
Speaker 2: thirty four to thirty one in that Super Bowl, the
3:44
Speaker 2: super Bowl game for the twelve season played in twenty
3:47
Speaker 2: thirteen where Joe Flaco out of his mind had that
3:50
Speaker 2: great Super Bowl run that they felt like their front
3:53
Speaker 2: seven in particular's guest, especially the front the front guy,
3:56
Speaker 2: say Justin Smith. Justin Smith was thirty three or thirty
4:01
Speaker 2: four years old that year. Right that season, he played
4:04
Speaker 2: eighty seven percent of the defensive snaps of the regular season.
4:07
Speaker 2: That's a lot, Like, that's a lot. Now, I don't
4:10
Speaker 2: have in front of me who the bench was. And
4:13
Speaker 2: I get it that fanjo is going to play the
4:15
Speaker 2: best players. This job is to win, is to win,
4:18
Speaker 2: but you also want these guys at their best when
4:22
Speaker 2: it counts deep in the playoffs. That's that's why we're
4:25
Speaker 2: doing the show. It is a vowl criticism. I've talked
4:28
Speaker 2: enough people who've worked with Vic that it's hard to
4:31
Speaker 2: criticize the guy because guy's brilliant, But one of the
4:36
Speaker 2: things he could do a better job of is developing. Really,
4:39
Speaker 2: it's really up to It's also up to him. I
4:42
Speaker 2: understand it's a general manager's job to draft the players,
4:44
Speaker 2: but it's up to you to develop the backups. Okay,
4:48
Speaker 2: you've got Glinn Hurt, one of the best D line
4:49
Speaker 2: coaches in the league. Great. Okay, Ty Robinson did not
4:52
Speaker 2: have a good rookie season. We understand. Greg co Selt
4:55
Speaker 2: told us he watches rookie tape. He watched his preseason tape.
4:59
Speaker 2: He said, Wow, he's got a long way to go.
5:00
Speaker 2: We were like, wow, just on presetape. He goes, yeah,
5:03
Speaker 2: tell me what he looked like. He's very raw. He's
5:06
Speaker 2: a pretty good athlete, but needs a lot of work.
5:08
Speaker 2: And yeah, Reg was right. And you even get on the
5:09
Speaker 2: field very much. Right, So he needs to be a
5:12
Speaker 2: factor because if they're going to make a Super Bowl run.
5:16
Speaker 2: You look at o Jomo Snaps last year. Okay, he
5:21
Speaker 2: won from twenty in twenty twenty four was kind of
5:24
Speaker 2: a break quase, breakout season for me. Got on the
5:26
Speaker 2: map thirty seven percent of the snaps. Okay, as a
5:29
Speaker 2: rotational player, they became a full time start at sixty
5:32
Speaker 2: six percent. All right, U Jalen Carter, Okay, I think
5:36
Speaker 2: it was two years ago. No one played more snaps
5:38
Speaker 2: than him on the defensive line eight thirty one and
5:40
Speaker 2: eighty four percent snaps. Folks, he missed this. This is
5:44
Speaker 2: what is concerning. He missed six regular season games because
5:50
Speaker 2: of mainly because of his shoulders. He still played eighty
5:53
Speaker 2: four percent of the snaps six thirty nine. So you
5:58
Speaker 2: gotta be careful, I understand. And he can only play
6:00
Speaker 2: the guys he trusts said, how about developing these guys? Okay,
6:04
Speaker 2: Byron Young, great story Byron Youngs is their top golf
6:07
Speaker 2: the bench that's not up to debate. Wait, that's gonna
6:09
Speaker 2: happen again, right what if? What if? Okay, what if
6:13
Speaker 2: somebody gets hurt and Young's got to start. He can play.
6:16
Speaker 2: He could play the nose and he could play, he
6:18
Speaker 2: could play the other detackle positions. That Robbinson is the
6:21
Speaker 2: next guy. He's the first guy off the bench. Well
6:24
Speaker 2: if he's not developed. He ain't getting in vic bon trusted,
6:26
Speaker 2: he doesn't play. That's like that's he's old school. I
6:29
Speaker 2: get that, but you got to start developing these guys.
6:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And I want to make it clear
6:34
Speaker 1: that you and I are not saying Vic Fangio did
6:37
Speaker 1: anything wrong with like not playing Bryce Huff that was
6:40
Speaker 1: on Bryce Huff or not playing once they got their
6:45
Speaker 1: rotation going with Dylan, So I I am not holding
6:47
Speaker 1: anything in the past. I am just saying this is
6:50
Speaker 1: a situation where I anticipate that the Arnold w Ketties
6:54
Speaker 1: of the world you mentioned Byron Young, maybe Ty Robbinson
6:56
Speaker 1: takes leave. We already got Nolan Smith here, and jellis
7:01
Speaker 1: like he's got guys who can play. Now, if after
7:05
Speaker 1: training camp you and I are like, e Ebikhetty's not
7:07
Speaker 1: that good or Ty Robbinson's still not If he's only
7:10
Speaker 1: got seven to play, then just play seven, but again
7:13
Speaker 1: for this team and be a super Bowl defense and
7:16
Speaker 1: overcome some of the issues that had last year of
7:20
Speaker 1: streaky with their past rush they weren't always elite with
7:22
Speaker 1: it and streaky at times in run defense. Then it's
7:26
Speaker 1: probably gonna be who of them if the talent's there
7:29
Speaker 1: to play more guys, And like you mentioned, Jalen Carter
7:33
Speaker 1: playing eighty four percent of the snaps with bumped shoulders
7:36
Speaker 1: is a perfect example.
7:37
Speaker 2: Ridiculous.
7:37
Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah. So not blaming Vic for anything in the past,
7:42
Speaker 1: but looking at the situation as it is right now,
7:45
Speaker 1: expecting the Eagles to be really deep interior and edge
7:50
Speaker 1: on the line and saying, go ahead, play guys, you know,
7:53
Speaker 1: like play. Don't be if Arnold Abacketty it has a
7:56
Speaker 1: really good camp and you think he's gonna be good
7:59
Speaker 1: in your defense, don't be like, oh well I only
8:02
Speaker 1: played Noan Smith and Jillis Hunt and Grenard. Sorry, you know, like,
8:06
Speaker 1: figure out a way to get that guy on the field,
8:08
Speaker 1: and I think he will, Adam, I don't think Vic
8:10
Speaker 1: is blind to this. I think when he has this
8:13
Speaker 1: much talent, he will figure out a way to get
8:15
Speaker 1: it on.
8:15
Speaker 2: And let's not forget Grenard's coming off of shoulder surgery.
8:18
Speaker 2: Is we outline a couple of weeks ago. He's had
8:19
Speaker 2: a number of injuries in this career, mostly lower body.
8:22
Speaker 2: Just turned twenty nine. He missed their entire off season
8:24
Speaker 2: because he's rehabing. Like you don't need to grind him.
8:27
Speaker 2: You don't need to grind him down right. That's his
8:31
Speaker 2: coaches sometimes can't get out of his own their own
8:34
Speaker 2: way because they just they want to win. We get that.
8:36
Speaker 2: You know, it's hard to find anything to criticize about,
8:38
Speaker 2: but we've heard, we've looked into this so from people
8:40
Speaker 2: work with Vic. They all love him and they can't
8:44
Speaker 2: tell him what to do, but they sure would wish
8:46
Speaker 2: that he'd be more trusting. Yeah, we don't have access
8:49
Speaker 2: to Vic's mind, and he's been pretty clear. He's here
8:53
Speaker 2: to win, and he plays guys who he wants to
8:54
Speaker 2: play if they if they trust him, Like Mike Zimmer
8:57
Speaker 2: told me this. Mike Zimmer told me this many years ago.
9:02
Speaker 2: If the guy he doesn't care who it is, if
9:05
Speaker 2: the guys didn't and we were talking about defensive linemen,
9:08
Speaker 2: if they didn't, if he didn't trust that they handle
9:13
Speaker 2: the technique. Well, there's certain techniques and footwork, hand hand
9:16
Speaker 2: usage and footwork. He didn't care who was the best player.
9:19
Speaker 2: I guy wasn't gonna play. I was like, wow, okay,
9:21
Speaker 2: well don't you want to win? It goes yeah, but
9:23
Speaker 2: if the guy can't do it, it is useless to me,
9:25
Speaker 2: basically what he's saying if he can't play the right
9:27
Speaker 2: way right. So there's I get that, I get it.
9:31
Speaker 1: It's somebody, it's it's it's really interesting how many yeah
9:33
Speaker 1: butt scenarios there are in the NFL that like, yeah,
9:36
Speaker 1: but we went right Like we were talking about this
9:38
Speaker 1: on the Offensive podcast Monday, It's like, I don't really
9:43
Speaker 1: like it. We take as many sacks as we do,
9:45
Speaker 1: but we don't fumble, and because we take the sacks,
9:48
Speaker 1: we don't throw interceptions, so we win games. You can't
9:51
Speaker 1: have that mentality all the time every year. Expect that
9:55
Speaker 1: to be Now, Vick's got a long standing position of
9:57
Speaker 1: being good. But when you got players getting beat up,
10:01
Speaker 1: and you don't want a situation where you're only playing
10:04
Speaker 1: guys who you have in the reserve tank because of injuries.
10:07
Speaker 1: You want a nice, fresh, stable rotation of everybody producing.
10:11
Speaker 1: All right, let me ask you what to me, by
10:12
Speaker 1: the way, was what made the twenty and seventeen defense
10:16
Speaker 1: which had some flaws but just so so and they
10:21
Speaker 1: were so came out you with so many different guys.
10:24
Speaker 2: That's it. I know Vic doesn't do it that way.
10:26
Speaker 2: He just doesn't. Yeah, But Look, you can argue with
10:30
Speaker 2: success right, this puts pressure what Vic should do. We
10:35
Speaker 2: we don't have access to him, We don't know exactly
10:37
Speaker 2: how he handles his coaches. But there's nothing wrong with say, guys,
10:42
Speaker 2: we need to do a better job here. Like okay,
10:43
Speaker 2: By and Young great story Raiders made a dumb mistake.
10:45
Speaker 2: We developed them great. We need to develop another guy
10:47
Speaker 2: because we just set up the scenario if Young's got
10:51
Speaker 2: to start to fill in right now, Robinson is the
10:54
Speaker 2: is the next guy up? Okay, yeah, because Gabe Hall
10:57
Speaker 2: has been on off the roster. He looked good last summer.
11:00
Speaker 2: They didn't keep him. He didn't He was really barely
11:03
Speaker 2: on the roster orpen arts developmental. Only Taikwon Graham has
11:08
Speaker 2: played a decent amount. He did play a decent amount
11:10
Speaker 2: with with Atlanta, a fifth rounder of twenty twenty one,
11:13
Speaker 2: but he may not even make the team. So I think,
11:15
Speaker 2: ty Robinson. I don't want to put it all on him,
11:17
Speaker 2: but this is where the coach has got to get
11:19
Speaker 2: this guy going.
11:20
Speaker 1: Absolutely so Robinson being more of a factor in year
11:24
Speaker 1: two absolutely would take this defense and just add another
11:29
Speaker 1: press That to me is the epitome of what we're
11:32
Speaker 1: talking about what do you do need to get back
11:34
Speaker 1: to the super Bowl? Could they get back to the
11:35
Speaker 1: Super Bow Bowl if Ty Robinson doesn't take a step forward, Sure,
11:39
Speaker 1: but if he does take that natural year two leap
11:42
Speaker 1: and really shows that interior rush, will he will he
11:45
Speaker 1: make it that much better or easier for the team
11:47
Speaker 1: to get to the super Bowl.
11:48
Speaker 2: Yeah?
11:48
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that would be a super Bowl defense because he's
11:51
Speaker 1: got I know someone who's personally worked with him and
11:54
Speaker 1: trained him, and he had a nickname for him. I
11:56
Speaker 1: couldn't remember.
11:57
Speaker 2: It was Ty Robinson.
11:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Robinson, and he's just waiting for this guy.
12:02
Speaker 1: This is a guy in the NFL. He's waiting for
12:05
Speaker 1: Robinson to really show the interior burst that he's had
12:08
Speaker 1: because he's a good athlete.
12:10
Speaker 2: I can'try.
12:11
Speaker 1: He has a nickname from it. I can't remember her
12:12
Speaker 1: for it, but something like Tarzan or something. I don't know,
12:14
Speaker 1: but you know, they really expect him to take a
12:17
Speaker 1: leap in year two and that would really, I mean,
12:19
Speaker 1: add another dimension to the US.
12:21
Speaker 2: What I could tell you is the scouting community, which
12:24
Speaker 2: at people actually work in the NFL, not you know
12:26
Speaker 2: folks online who are draft analysts. We're telling me people
12:28
Speaker 2: work in the NFL for the clubs. I love Ty Robinson,
12:32
Speaker 2: loved him, but I know it. Scuto gave a third
12:35
Speaker 2: round grad he went in the fourth. It's only one year.
12:38
Speaker 2: A percent of the rookies contributes only a year one
12:41
Speaker 2: say five percent. It's obviously years two through four. So
12:43
Speaker 2: there's time here, right, But you gotta be ready man
12:46
Speaker 2: for any scenario. And this is their defense was awful
12:51
Speaker 2: against the Niners, awful against a beat up team that's
12:55
Speaker 2: putting up a bunch of backups out there at the
12:57
Speaker 2: skill positions, relate receiver, tight end, and they still house
13:03
Speaker 2: the Eagles defense. So that's not good. Right.
13:07
Speaker 1: If we go to the middle of the defense. I
13:09
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about Jahad Campbell a little bit, you
13:12
Speaker 1: know all I think he has to do at I'm
13:15
Speaker 1: not asking him to be in Kobe Dean. I think
13:17
Speaker 1: they're different kind of players with different kind of skill sets.
13:20
Speaker 1: So I'm just basically asking of Jahad Campbell for this
13:24
Speaker 1: to be a Super Bowl caliber defense is for his
13:27
Speaker 1: athletic traits to keep being honed, play a little bit
13:30
Speaker 1: better downhill against the run. If he can become part
13:35
Speaker 1: of that, If he can become the fourth guy in
13:37
Speaker 1: a four man rush. That is a sim pressure that
13:39
Speaker 1: used to be in a Kobe Dean. That's great. I
13:41
Speaker 1: don't think it has to be they can find Maybe
13:43
Speaker 1: it could be Cooper de Gene, it could be somebody else,
13:45
Speaker 1: who knows. But I just for this team to be
13:49
Speaker 1: super Bowl caliber, he has to play at the level
13:52
Speaker 1: expected of a second year first round pick.
13:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not fair for I know some fans.
13:58
Speaker 2: We know there was a huge, huge fan base for it.
14:03
Speaker 2: Nakobe Dean rightfully, so they hung with him. Great player,
14:05
Speaker 2: you got rewarded. He got rewarded by the Raiders. He's
14:09
Speaker 2: spurned the Cowboys, which is a good thing. But you
14:12
Speaker 2: just got to be patient with Campbell. He's missed a
14:14
Speaker 2: lot of time, folks, misted a lot of time. Okay, Yeah,
14:18
Speaker 2: he's still relatively new to playing linebacker. He came to
14:22
Speaker 2: Alabama's an edge rusher. So the good thing is the
14:24
Speaker 2: tape was good before he got hurt. Yes, he hasn't
14:27
Speaker 2: played a full season yet. Okay. Macoba has not played
14:30
Speaker 2: a full season yet, So you're gonna have to be patient.
14:33
Speaker 2: It may be a slow draw for him. He may
14:34
Speaker 2: not be he may not get their year one right. Good.
14:37
Speaker 2: The good thing is trot Junior is a player. They're
14:40
Speaker 2: very high on him. Done a good job. Mandin's there.
14:43
Speaker 2: They I know they like Chance Campbell, who played for
14:45
Speaker 2: Bobby King in Tennessee, who's the who is the Eagles
14:49
Speaker 2: linebackers coach. So they've got depth here. They're young too,
14:52
Speaker 2: which is also good. So I'm with you. I just
14:55
Speaker 2: feel like folks got to be patient. But if they're
14:58
Speaker 2: going to make a super Bowl super Bowl run, which
15:00
Speaker 2: this show is about, he's gonna have to be a factor.
15:02
Speaker 2: You can't have him benched like that's not gonna work
15:06
Speaker 2: because teams will If he's not getting it, teams will
15:08
Speaker 2: find it.
15:09
Speaker 1: I do wonder if there's sort of a contingency plan.
15:13
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have this plan or you
15:14
Speaker 1: just go to it by default. But we have seen
15:17
Speaker 1: Trotter play so well in certain circumstances. If he's a
15:21
Speaker 1: better run defender than Campbell, do you consider having him
15:25
Speaker 1: start in your base and your Nickel rush Nickel, I mean, sorry,
15:29
Speaker 1: run Nickel defense, and then just save Campbell for your
15:32
Speaker 1: past nickel and your dime and any other pass coverages
15:35
Speaker 1: you want to I don't think they want to get
15:37
Speaker 1: to that.
15:37
Speaker 2: I think they're well em First, Campbell is so much
15:41
Speaker 2: bigger physically, like so much bigger. Yes, not just to.
15:45
Speaker 1: Wait always more violently too.
15:47
Speaker 2: But yeah yet But but on your point trotting your
15:51
Speaker 2: diagnosis extremely well, if if Campbell's not doing it because
15:54
Speaker 2: Gunny's new, when he's missed so much time, Ben's gonna
15:56
Speaker 2: do what he's going to do. Man, he doesn't care
15:58
Speaker 2: like he's he made it clear about a year or
16:01
Speaker 2: two ago. He's talking about issues he had in Denver.
16:04
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's talked about John always specifically,
16:06
Speaker 2: but he was kind of hinting towards like he'll he'll,
16:10
Speaker 2: he'll stand up to a front office. He don't care.
16:12
Speaker 2: Mm hm, they swear by. I talked to someone who
16:15
Speaker 2: used to work for the Eagles recently who said absolutely
16:17
Speaker 2: how he's got a ton of respect for Vic, He's
16:19
Speaker 2: got a ton of input how he's going to make
16:22
Speaker 2: the calls. But you know he's, oh, there's a there's
16:25
Speaker 2: a big reason why VIX here because of Howie, not
16:27
Speaker 2: just not just Nick, it's both the Nick and Howie
16:30
Speaker 2: were a line on getting this guy. One of the
16:32
Speaker 2: best moves and coaching history for the Eagles. But he's
16:34
Speaker 2: not perfect.
16:36
Speaker 1: There you going all right back end? What has to
16:39
Speaker 1: happen in your mind at cornerback for the Eagles to
16:42
Speaker 1: be super Bowl worthy?
16:43
Speaker 2: Okay, you said super Bowl m M.
16:46
Speaker 1: I have something behind that might be a little bit
16:48
Speaker 1: of a stretch, but I like it all right.
16:50
Speaker 2: Wille cannot be just average or but blow average. That's
16:53
Speaker 2: going to be a major problem. Mm hmm. But he
16:57
Speaker 2: can't just be extremely assistant, which has been since year one.
17:02
Speaker 2: He was elite, like came out of nowhere, and then
17:05
Speaker 2: he'd been a steady decline. But if he's really good
17:11
Speaker 2: and everybody's healthy and the guy the starters are playing well,
17:15
Speaker 2: which we expect this this is the super Bowl type defense.
17:18
Speaker 2: But if he's the culprit giving up place playing on discipline,
17:20
Speaker 2: you know, you you have that stat or that fact
17:23
Speaker 2: that he he had the most penalties defense for the
17:26
Speaker 2: football team. Yep, it can't happen. That was for the Seahawks.
17:30
Speaker 2: That can't happen. That that's that's we're gonna trust what
17:33
Speaker 2: Vic said. Like he said he liked his tape. Okay, look,
17:36
Speaker 2: Vic doesn't lie. I mean he also knew. Vic also
17:40
Speaker 2: went on records that he knew that he was developed
17:41
Speaker 2: the trade headline too well. And so we'll see. But
17:45
Speaker 2: Jonathan Jones is the backup. And at thirty three years old,
17:49
Speaker 2: which he turns soon, who the hell knows? Like it's
17:53
Speaker 2: very rare for a thirty three year old corner man.
17:55
Speaker 2: Most guys have retired by that, right, you know, So
17:58
Speaker 2: we'll see.
17:58
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Speaker 1: at PHL sports Nation. All right, along those same lines, Adam,
19:18
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this and when I think about
19:19
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four Super Bowl defense, what really sticks out?
19:24
Speaker 1: They could be they could give up yards, but they
19:26
Speaker 1: turned the ball over at such an impressive rate, and
19:29
Speaker 1: it only got better when they got to the postseason.
19:32
Speaker 1: What was it the four turnovers against the Commanders I
19:35
Speaker 1: think in the NFC Championship game, the pick six and
19:39
Speaker 1: the sack fumble against the Chiefs in the in the
19:42
Speaker 1: in the Super Bowl, I think two or three they
19:44
Speaker 1: were turnover Detroit with the field and they put the
19:48
Speaker 1: other team in such a disadvantage right from the start.
19:51
Speaker 1: And I look at this Eagles defense, and I know
19:53
Speaker 1: the pass rush is gonna be good. I know the
19:55
Speaker 1: corners are gonna be sticky. I'm not really worried about that.
19:57
Speaker 2: You're right.
19:58
Speaker 1: All wool And really has to focus on is not
20:01
Speaker 1: eliminating stupid penalties. He should help hopefully be a better
20:05
Speaker 1: He needs to be a better run defender. But I
20:06
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna keep them if he's not. I
20:08
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna keep them out the super Bowl.
20:09
Speaker 1: But if these guys don't produce turnovers, oh, if they
20:14
Speaker 1: don't flip the field like they did two years ago,
20:18
Speaker 1: I don't I think there'll be a good defense, but
20:20
Speaker 1: that would keep them from being an elite defense. Quinya
20:22
Speaker 1: Mitchell has what four interceptions in the playoffs, none in
20:26
Speaker 1: the regular season. He's got to get the ones he
20:29
Speaker 1: gets his hands on. He has to catch. And the
20:31
Speaker 1: same thing Woolan. I don't think Vic is going to
20:35
Speaker 1: travel Mitchell this year nearly as much as last year
20:38
Speaker 1: because he shouldn't have to. He should trust Woland Way
20:41
Speaker 1: more than a Dori Jackson. And so if he's not,
20:43
Speaker 1: quarterbacks are not gonna throw it. There's gonna be a
20:46
Speaker 1: ton of balls thrown at Woolan or the interior corner
20:50
Speaker 1: because they're gonna be going away from Quinnon. Those guys
20:53
Speaker 1: got to make plays on the ball, and when the
20:54
Speaker 1: opportunity is there, they got to turn the ball over.
20:57
Speaker 2: Well. One thing I would add here with this situation
21:01
Speaker 2: is with with Quinnani. We've talked about before. It's been
21:04
Speaker 2: a while, but just to remind people, one of the
21:06
Speaker 2: reasons why some clubs had a real issue with Mitchell
21:09
Speaker 2: being a first round pick was less to do that
21:11
Speaker 2: he could play man coverage. There was more to do
21:13
Speaker 2: because he fought the football at Toledo. As talent as
21:17
Speaker 2: he is, yes, he's got the length, good enough athlete,
21:22
Speaker 2: not he's not part of good hands people. He just
21:25
Speaker 2: wasn't he just he had he had he would fight.
21:27
Speaker 2: I remember talking to scout who turned in the first
21:30
Speaker 2: round grade the only thing he could fight. He knew
21:32
Speaker 2: he could play man coverage. He wasn't worried about that.
21:35
Speaker 2: He said, Man, this guy fought the football. Man he goes.
21:38
Speaker 2: I'm not so sure at our level that you could
21:40
Speaker 2: teach that right. You could do drill it, but maybe
21:44
Speaker 2: it's instinctual. I don't know, but as you said, he
21:46
Speaker 2: did have the four picks right in the playoffs, So
21:48
Speaker 2: who knows.
21:49
Speaker 1: By the way, in the yeah butt category, right, his
21:53
Speaker 1: four picks make him the active NFL leader in postseason interceptions?
21:59
Speaker 2: What is he is the.
22:01
Speaker 1: Active NFL leader in postseason And there's nobody playing in
22:04
Speaker 1: the NFL right now who has more interceptions in the
22:07
Speaker 1: playoffs than Quinnon.
22:08
Speaker 2: Mitchelle, you you actually McDuffie didn't.
22:15
Speaker 1: McDuffie has either zero or one. I think Sertain has one.
22:19
Speaker 1: You can combine certain McDuffie and somebody else and they
22:21
Speaker 1: don't have as many as q Mitchell.
22:23
Speaker 2: That's wild man, Wow, good stat what I didn't know?
22:28
Speaker 2: I know now it's crazy, it really is.
22:31
Speaker 1: So yeah, I do think I think every great defense
22:35
Speaker 1: usually is because it's a turnover happy defense and forces
22:40
Speaker 1: the opponent already into disadvantage situations. And we saw that
22:44
Speaker 1: so much in twenty twenty four. I mean that there
22:46
Speaker 1: were Commanders fell behind so early because of it, and
22:49
Speaker 1: then so did the Chiefs. And when when you're when
22:52
Speaker 1: you're doing that, you're demoralizing a team. I mean, you're
22:54
Speaker 1: you're flipping a field. You're almost making you can make
22:57
Speaker 1: it a twelve point swing. Right teams they're trying to
23:00
Speaker 1: get into the end zone. You pick him off, you
23:02
Speaker 1: run it back for six, you get six, they got,
23:04
Speaker 1: they lose six.
23:05
Speaker 2: So ye me.
23:06
Speaker 1: I think that that is what could make this defense
23:09
Speaker 1: go from good to being great and elite.
23:12
Speaker 2: And we'll talk more about this closer to camp and
23:14
Speaker 2: we'll do a show where what we're looking for in
23:16
Speaker 2: training camp. But I would tell you, based on this
23:18
Speaker 2: this show today, the couple guys that I'll be looking
23:21
Speaker 2: for to see if they could start developing in this defense.
23:24
Speaker 2: Ty Robinson, as we talked about, absolutely Ebic Catty. I
23:29
Speaker 2: know he's a free agent, and you make a fair point. Look,
23:33
Speaker 2: if it's obvious he's kicking ass, he's got to be
23:35
Speaker 2: on the field. Figure it a final role for this guy.
23:40
Speaker 1: They got you as long as he deserves it. Again,
23:42
Speaker 1: it's it's about earning it.
23:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, it right. But that's the point is if he's
23:46
Speaker 2: earned it, if he's playing well, figure it out. Man.
23:48
Speaker 2: I know that's not what VIC does. But you know
23:50
Speaker 2: what if a guy, if a guy forces his way
23:53
Speaker 2: on the field, he's that good. He's making pretty good coin.
23:56
Speaker 2: By the way, if he's earned it. He's got to play.
24:00
Speaker 1: I agreed, all right, I promise you this stat Okay,
24:03
Speaker 1: certain Devin Witherspoon and McDuffie have zero career playoff picks,
24:08
Speaker 1: while Stingley Junior has two and Christian Gonzalez has one.
24:13
Speaker 1: So by far Quinia Mitchell has. You can combine some
24:16
Speaker 1: of those and they don't have as many as Quinnea Mitchell.
24:19
Speaker 2: That's amazing to me.
24:21
Speaker 1: All right. Last thing is de gene. We want to
24:22
Speaker 1: talk about the gene. Yeah, obviously he has to like
24:25
Speaker 1: acclimate to the position. But in spirit of what you
24:30
Speaker 1: said about Macouba being questionable with his health and with
24:33
Speaker 1: questionable death behind him, it's not just good enough that
24:37
Speaker 1: the gene acclimates and becomes like your average level safety.
24:40
Speaker 1: He's got to be durable, reliable, and be able to
24:43
Speaker 1: move back and forth between nickel and safety without missing
24:46
Speaker 1: a beat, which is not always easy. These are going
24:49
Speaker 1: to move to I think corner outside corner to nicol
24:52
Speaker 1: a little bit more than safety.
24:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is a big deal, man, And I'll
24:59
Speaker 2: michure to see because if he sticks with okay, well,
25:03
Speaker 2: Coop's only going to be a safety in bass downs.
25:05
Speaker 2: Mm hm he's such an athlete. I know it's no
25:11
Speaker 2: more nickel at least this season unless somebody gets hurt,
25:14
Speaker 2: whether he's forced to move to nickel, I mean to
25:16
Speaker 2: a corner. That's it. He's on playing corner the season.
25:18
Speaker 2: But uh, he's such an athlete. I I just wonder
25:22
Speaker 2: if it's the best thing to do is just to
25:24
Speaker 2: have them just be a because we as we outline
25:26
Speaker 2: as we went through their schedule, there will be games
25:28
Speaker 2: where we only play safety. But if now, of course,
25:34
Speaker 2: what's it. See he's gonna go to when they go
25:36
Speaker 2: eleven personnel or ten if if everything's play ten, he's
25:39
Speaker 2: gonna play. He's gonna play nickel. Okay, Well, or but
25:42
Speaker 2: here's the question, what do they do when they go dime? Well,
25:44
Speaker 2: it's a passing to Obviously, a dime is passing. So
25:46
Speaker 2: you have to think he's gonna play that he's gonna
25:48
Speaker 2: play a slop position or nickel.
25:50
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I would think so.
25:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, But it's I'll interest to see how he handles
25:55
Speaker 2: this because if it goes like we think it's gonna
25:58
Speaker 2: go pretty good. And we've been talking about this for
26:00
Speaker 2: like a nine months or more almost a year that
26:02
Speaker 2: we felt last summer if bin Chip didn't get his extension,
26:07
Speaker 2: that they're gonna move Coop to safety, and that's happened.
26:09
Speaker 2: But what I think is fascinating is he's not going
26:11
Speaker 2: to be full time. It's okay, you're gonna play safety
26:13
Speaker 2: on these downs, but you're still gonna be Nickel, Right.
26:16
Speaker 2: How much longer could they keep it? Like? How many
26:18
Speaker 2: years are they going to do this?
26:20
Speaker 1: That's great, it's a great question, and I think we
26:23
Speaker 1: can't answer that because I'm fascinated. I know we've talked
26:25
Speaker 1: about this, but I really wanted to get people excited,
26:27
Speaker 1: people who are football junkies. I am so excited for
26:31
Speaker 1: the first September games because they're gonna face all these
26:35
Speaker 1: twelve and thirteen personnel teams, Rams, Bears, the Bears. I
26:38
Speaker 1: would not be surprised if they with their drafting of
26:42
Speaker 1: include they draft Sam Rouse right from Stanford, and they've
26:45
Speaker 1: got Comet and they've got Colson Lovely, and it would
26:47
Speaker 1: not shock me. They were also a thirteen personnel driven team.
26:51
Speaker 1: But it's very easy to say, well, then Vic's just
26:54
Speaker 1: gonna play a lot more bass. But the Rams are
26:57
Speaker 1: so backwards where they pass so much and they run
27:01
Speaker 1: eleven personnel play calls out of thirteen personnel because they
27:05
Speaker 1: their their tight ends run routes like wide receivers, especially
27:08
Speaker 1: the kid from They got Morgan, right, so I'm fascinated
27:12
Speaker 1: to see does vic try to answer thirteen personnel with
27:15
Speaker 1: nickel even? Oh?
27:18
Speaker 2: Yeah that that like does he to be prepared of
27:21
Speaker 2: what they could put the caposity to do it now
27:23
Speaker 2: in strategy? So real quick? So they open they host
27:27
Speaker 2: the Commandos Week one. The Commandos are very light at receiver. Yeah,
27:32
Speaker 2: h they certainly could they because they got a conco
27:36
Speaker 2: in there who's a pretty good athlete. Uh they right
27:40
Speaker 2: now this is heading for a miss. Is the is
27:42
Speaker 2: the kid Ben senate Kansas State. He's an athlete, doesn't
27:45
Speaker 2: block very well. They can't get him on the field.
27:47
Speaker 2: Baits is there? Why?
27:48
Speaker 1: Yep, they're gonna play a conco. They paid him money, right,
27:51
Speaker 1: They're gonna play twelve personnel.
27:53
Speaker 2: He's gonna he has to play, So they're gonna play
27:55
Speaker 2: a lot of twelve yep, right right, It's gonna be
27:57
Speaker 2: based on Bates is one of the best wives in
27:58
Speaker 2: the National Football because and and the other thing is okay,
28:01
Speaker 2: McLarin is their X. He was there, it was their zeed,
28:04
Speaker 2: the starter his career. He's moved to be their ex
28:06
Speaker 2: and Tony Willm's going to be their slot. Trey Lion
28:09
Speaker 2: Barks is not a starter. He s he's a good
28:11
Speaker 2: nice story, definitely, he's revived his career. Not really a starter.
28:15
Speaker 2: They don't have that to me. They're a team that's
28:16
Speaker 2: going to play heavy twelve heavy twelve. Uh the Titans are.
28:22
Speaker 2: The Titans could go in a variety of ways with
28:26
Speaker 2: Brian Dable will play play. He's a he's more eleven
28:29
Speaker 2: by heart, but it's good. He'll call to the personality.
28:32
Speaker 2: Has you just outline the Bears and then the Rams
28:36
Speaker 2: a week four of which that's the game of the
28:38
Speaker 2: year for me. I hope everybody's healthy. I cannot wait
28:41
Speaker 2: for this game like this to me, for the Eagles schedule,
28:44
Speaker 2: nothing that, nothing else, and god forbid Aaron Donald, who's
28:47
Speaker 2: been working out the facility, he's signs. Can you imagine?
28:52
Speaker 1: I mean this is and that would be incredible that
28:56
Speaker 1: I almost think that at that point there will be
28:57
Speaker 1: almost too much pressure on the Rams to win it all.
29:00
Speaker 1: I know, a sort of dream team type of atmosphere there.
29:05
Speaker 2: He better understanding, got to get paid like he used to. Yeah. Yeah,
29:08
Speaker 2: he's thirty five years old, but it's it's fascinating how
29:11
Speaker 2: this could look and you will. Vic will have a
29:13
Speaker 2: plan he always does, yep, and personnel will help execute it.
29:18
Speaker 1: All right, last thing before he finished off because I
29:20
Speaker 1: don't want to ignore special teams. Yeah, I mean this
29:24
Speaker 1: part might be like the only obvious thing we'll get into.
29:26
Speaker 1: But Jake Elliott's got to be better. I mean he
29:28
Speaker 1: has to. They have to figure him out, because I
29:31
Speaker 1: don't think you can rely on his inconsistency of last year.
29:34
Speaker 1: You'll lose a game in the playoffs if you miss
29:37
Speaker 1: an extra point or if you miss field goal. Go
29:40
Speaker 1: ask the rams.
29:42
Speaker 2: What I don't understand is, Okay, so he took a
29:44
Speaker 2: pay cut of a million bucks. Okay, he lost twenty
29:46
Speaker 2: percent of his cash, but they fully guarantee the cash.
29:53
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't get it. He was gonna
29:54
Speaker 2: make six million, he's not gonna make I think he's
29:57
Speaker 2: gonna make five. But I just the fact that they
30:03
Speaker 2: didn't sign anyone to compete. Now they could write ex
30:05
Speaker 2: camp starts, we'll see what happens, but they need to
30:08
Speaker 2: put pressure on him. He needs to be better. Okay.
30:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, by the way, case in point right,
30:13
Speaker 1: first round loss, he missed the pat On Goddard's touchdown
30:20
Speaker 1: in the first quarter, so they were down seven to six.
30:22
Speaker 1: They lost by four, right, Remember the last play of
30:25
Speaker 1: the game, they had to go to the end zone.
30:26
Speaker 1: They're down by four because they can't kick a field goal.
30:29
Speaker 1: If it was twenty three twenty instead of twenty three nineteen,
30:33
Speaker 1: they can kick a field goal and tie the game.
30:35
Speaker 1: But it's twenty three nineteen, so they get the crazy
30:38
Speaker 1: four verts call or whatever against that look right, because
30:41
Speaker 1: they have to put it in the end zone at
30:42
Speaker 1: that point. You see the difference.
30:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, it changed. You missed the Yeah, and he missed
30:47
Speaker 2: fifteen regular season field goals the past two seasons. That
30:50
Speaker 2: that can't happen. So on this point, if you want
30:54
Speaker 2: to be a super Bowl team, he's got to get
30:58
Speaker 2: it right. And and a Tyler Brown really good the
31:00
Speaker 2: specials coach, like he's the guy really helped turn them around.
31:03
Speaker 2: And really Clays Michael Clay's responsibility between Clay and Tyler
31:07
Speaker 2: Brown and Joe Pinuncio, mm hmm, who kind of oversees
31:11
Speaker 2: those guys and addition everything else he does for the Eagles.
31:13
Speaker 2: They got to get this right because brad Man, what
31:15
Speaker 2: a fine he was. It was a good job by
31:17
Speaker 2: Howie getting him from UH in Pittsburgh. But MVP last year,
31:22
Speaker 2: he was a great guy by Andrew and I were
31:24
Speaker 2: able to interview him for wbc B. What a great interview.
31:26
Speaker 2: His story is crazy, But finishing this off you don't
31:29
Speaker 2: want to. You don't want it to come down to that.
31:31
Speaker 2: You don't right now. He's not shown me that you
31:35
Speaker 2: could have enough confidence in him. It's kind of like
31:37
Speaker 2: a he's kind of like a relief pitcher in baseball
31:40
Speaker 2: who's elite, and then he starts losing it. You don't
31:42
Speaker 2: know if he could regain it. Yeah, kickers sometimes don't
31:44
Speaker 2: regain it. He's only thirty one, it's not like thirty eight.
31:47
Speaker 1: But are you calling them Jose Alvarado Adam? Is that
31:50
Speaker 1: I'm hearing right now?
31:52
Speaker 2: Well, he did look great for one inning Sunday. Yeah,
31:55
Speaker 2: you never but you just don't know.
31:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, you're right, he's got to get it. I
32:00
Speaker 1: think we can agree. He's got to get it back.
32:01
Speaker 1: You can't have an untrustworthy kicker and just expected the
32:05
Speaker 1: ball team. Awesome, great stuff. That was a fun series.
32:09
Speaker 1: We really chopped it up, got into the x's and
32:11
Speaker 1: o's and that's gonna do it. For this episode of
32:13
Speaker 1: Inside the Birds, the Leading Podcast and Eagles Intel, and
32:16
Speaker 1: as always, we thank you for flying with us Inside
32:20
Speaker 1: the Birds