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The Mysterious Story of Larry Bader · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: should know.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: That's right. I don't want to give away what this
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: one contains, so let's just say it is the strange
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: tale of a man named Larry Vader.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, he went to Great Links to escape Ohio.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Right, well, you just gave it away. Not really, this guy,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Lawrence Joseph Bater. He was an Akron native, So shout
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: out to my people, my wife's folks, and Akron, Akron,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Akron Akron, as she says, because of that bridge. If
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: you've been through there, you know what I'm talking about.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: He was born in nineteen twenty six to a Catholic,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: pretty well to do Catholic family. His father was a dentist,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and Lyvia dug up some dirt from a family friend
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: who was like, you know, Larry and his brothers and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: sisters were spoil little rich kids. Larry was pretty careless
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: with his money because he could just get more anytime
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: he needed it. But he was pretty funny, guys, pretty
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: fun dude. Had a lot of personality and he used
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: to do weird things, like in one of his party tricks,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: would he would he would eat a whole chicken, like
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: including the bones.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's special.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but put a pin in that. We're not just
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: mentioning that strange factor for no reason.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: No, So he joined the Navy in nineteen forty four.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I think he left high school to join the Navy
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: because the United States was in the grip of World
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: War Two and he served for I think a little
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: under two years. And when he came back, he graduated
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: from high school and he went to the University of Akron,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: but school was just not for him, and he dropped
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: out after a semester. Apparently he was known for money
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: making schemes more than he was known for acing tests.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I gotta say, if you're known for money making schemes
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: after a semester, you must have been doing a lot
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: of money making, well, highly visible money making schemes. Yeah.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Or you wear a suit that's got dollar dollar signs
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: printed all over it. It's a green suit with dollar signs.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: That's another way to become known for money making schemes.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's bait. All my suits look like that. You
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: know nothing, You threw me off, all right, So he's
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: not lasting in college. He didn't last long in the navy.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: But while he was in college, he did accomplish something
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: because he got married. He met a woman named Mary
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: loud Knapp with a K. They got married nineteen fifty
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: two and within five years had three kids, with a
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: fourth on the way. And he was doing pretty well
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: for himself. He was making the equivalent of about one
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year these days as
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a cookwear salesman, and that was about twice the median
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: income at the time. So he's doing pretty good. But
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: he still had some debts. He had a pretty hefty mortgage,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: He had a new car, and was about two four
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars in debt. Basically, you can multiply most stuff
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: from this era by ten and arrive at our modern
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: conversion rate, so you know, roughly twenty four thousand dollars
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: in debt is pretty hefty.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He also like he didn't pay his taxes for
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: like five years.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, not good.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: No, And it was bad enough. He was bad enough
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: with the bills or behind enough that the milkman apparently said, like,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not bringing milk anymore until you pay your milk bill.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: So the thing is, is this guy, like you said
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: family friend from when he was a kid, was like
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: he was a rich kid, but he was actually really charming,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: fun to be around, rich kid, And apparently as he
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: grew up into an adult, he remained essentially the same.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Like basically everyone who met him or had something to
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: say about him later on basically unanimously said, this guy
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: was a good guy. So if he's like cracking under
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: the pressure of these bills and this debt, it's not
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: showing outwardly to anybody who knew him. One of his
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: friends said that he was a red blooded American thirty
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: year old family man who liked hanging out and drinking
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: beer with friends, and his friends liked hanging around him
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: because he was just fun to be around, essentially without
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: being like a reckless party animal. He was just fun
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: to be around.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just sort of your average fun guy exactly. And
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: he was also and put a pin in this, we
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: just were not mentioning this for no reason. He was
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: also very good at archery, had won some competitions, so
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: he was an archery He was a fun guy and
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: everything swimming along in his life, making a pretty good living,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: little bit in debt, and then on Wednesday May fifteenth,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, he had collected some bad payment checks
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: from vendors from his business and said, you know what,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I got to go to Cleveland to kind of clear
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: up these bad checks with these vendors. He tells this
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: to his wife, Mary Lou who is, keep in mind,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: four months pregnant, and he said, so, I'm going up
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: to Cleveland. It's going to be the morning, and then
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna probably do a little fishing in the afternoon
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: in Lake Erie, and so I'll be home late. And
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: she said what any partner should say in that situation,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: which is, maybe you could also come home and be
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: a father and husband instead of going fishing after you
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: do your work. And he supposedly replied with, yeah, maybe
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I will, maybe I won't. All right, So I'm not
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: saying he's some really bad guy. It may have been
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: a cheeky response, that may have been how things went
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: in their marriage, but he just was a little vague,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: and that will come into play.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: So one of the things he did was he paid
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: some bills before he left, and one of those bills
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: was a life insurance premium. He had recently adjusted or
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: changed the policy to include a nice payout for an
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: accidental death. And he whistled as he drove off to
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Cleveland and eventually went to Rocky River, Ohio, which is
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: a little town on the Rocky River which flows into
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Lake Erie, and he runted a boat at Eddie's Boat Dock,
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: about a half a mile inland from the lake from
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: a guy named Lawrence Cott cut leure, yeah, cut lower Yeah. Anyway,
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: he paid fifteen bucks from a big roll of bills.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: It's also kind of important. And he said, hey, Lawrence,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I want you to put some running lights on this
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: boat because I'm probably going to be out after dark.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: And Lawrence said, okay, I'll do that, but it's going
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: to cost you an extra fiver I'm presuming here at
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: this time. And Larry Bader paid it.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he paid it, and he was like, all right, whatever, buddy.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: He did notice, and this is stuff that you know.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: They interviewed Lawrence afterward for reasons that we still don't
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: know because we're keeping this a secret. Well we know, yeah, sure,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: but he did notice that he had a suitcase with him.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: He thought that was a little bit weird. He said,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you know, you got a storm coming, you might not
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: want to be out there after doc.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Let us people in Cleveland. Sure it is, and King
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: novel about Cleveland.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: So people don't go in there. That's why the Browns play.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So he warned you about the storm. Uh. He goes
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: out on Lake Erie. The coastguard sees him and says, hey, there,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: you know there's a big storm coming in after sunset,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and I've noticed you have some running lights, so you
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: clearly plan on being out after dark. And he was like,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: it's fine, and so they said, all right, go about
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: your way. Three hours later, that storm does come in
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and Larry Baier has disappeared. They find the boat the
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: next day about five miles away. The life jackets were
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: all on board. There was a some scratches like it
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: had hit some rocks. There was a bent propeller, and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: some accounts say that it was either a gas line
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: had been disconnected or the gas cans were empty, but
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: either way, and I guess it's the kind where the
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: gas line runs directly into like a gas can. That
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: sitting on the boat must have been one of those
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: kind of boats. But basically they were like, but nothing
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: shows the kind of distress where a human would be
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: completely missing, Like it wasn't capsized or sunk or anything
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: No, and the life jacket was in the boat.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You said, right, that's right.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So that's a really that's so that's a big point
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: because the coastguard was like, that was one heck of
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: a storm on Lake Erie. There's no way that anybody
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: could have survived this. Even a strong swimmer like Larry
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Baiter was known to be without a life jacket.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the oars was missing, but you know,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: just do with that what you want, right.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: But the boat was generally in pretty good shape. The
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: thing is is like, this is not an uncommon thing,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Like people drown in Lake Erie pretty frequently. It's a
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: great lake. It's a very big lake. And just as
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: a little side anecdote, when I was a kid, we
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: used to vacation on Kataba Island on Lake Erie, and
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: every week we would go there for a week every summer,
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: and every time we went, I would have to wait
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: on the beach the first half of the week because
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: somebody had drowned, and I was convinced that if I
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: went in the water, they would their dead body would
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: bump up against me, and I just couldn't even bear
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the thought of that. So finally I would watch the
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: news every night, and finally when they announced they found
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: the missing person. Wow, then I would start to go
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: into the lake.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: And you thought, I won't run into that body. Now
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I might become one, but it's worth the.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Risk, right, yeah, because no one had any business swimming
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: in Lake Erie back when I was a kid.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: What do you what's Kataba Island? Like? What do you
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: do there?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Oh? You play mini golf and putt putt?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: We stayed at this place. It was just like a
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: block of like I guess, little condos or apartments or
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: something like that. And everybody had beach towels like drying
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: over like the railing and it was like on the beach,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: like the sand came up into your little front stoop
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and it was just great. It was one of it.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I remember my oldest sister went on a date with
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: the dude she met there, and they went and saw
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: a top secret at the drive in.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, the vacation date. That's always great, man, that's nice.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I love young Josh stories, all right, So they looked
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: for Larry Bayder for a couple of months. The coast
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: guard was like, no one's going to survive that storm
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: if they don't have a life jacket, but they looked anyway,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and they were also were like, well he was a
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: strong swimmer though, so it's a little weird that, like
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: the boat wasn't that damage and he's just nowhere to
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: be found. Some people thought, you know, he had this
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: big wad of cash. I don't think, we said, but
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: he cashed a four hundred dollars check, so if you
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: do the math, you know, that's probably like four thousand
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: bucks a lot of dough. So he may have been
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you know, robbed and murdered or something. And also the
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: suitcase was gone, so that could also explain that. But
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: either way, they said, we just got to put this
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: one to rest. And so in nineteen sixty he was
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: declared dead and his wife got that forty thousand dollars
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: insurance policy and Social Security started rolling in. That's right,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: and I believe that's where we should take a break
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: and see what happened to Larry Bader.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck, where we last left off, Larry Baters missing,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: he's disappeared, but enough years have gone by, I think
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: roughly three that he's officially declared dead. His insurance policy
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: has come in, his wife has said, this is what
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: you get for telling me. Maybe I will, maybe I
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: won't when I tell you not to go fishing. Yeah,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: and if we rewind just a little bit to the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: day that Larry Batter went out on the lake and
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: add usually people say about three days zoom on over
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: from Lake Erie over to Omaha, Nebraska. When we sit
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: down at a little bar called the Round Table Bar
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: in Omaha, what we will see on May eighteenth, nineteen
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: fifty seven, as a guy walk in and his name
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: is John Johnson. Take it, Chuck.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I was so busy trying to work up a Saturn
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: joke about that eight hundred miles, but I couldn't do
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it in time.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: Well wait, if you can, I'll give you an hour.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Eight hundred miles between Omaha and Acri and roughly one
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: third the size of the distance between. And then I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: couldn't remember what it was on Saturday.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: The Cassini Division.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: That Cassini Division.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: So that's not a joke. That's making fun of my
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: hard work.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: I know. So here's what happens. Three days after Larry
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Bader disappears, eight hundred miles away, a dude shows up
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: in Omaha at the Round Table Bar. He said his
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: name was John Johnson. He said, I got this driver's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: license here, it's got my name on it. I was
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: a fourteen year veteran of the Navy. It's a Navy license,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: as you'll see. I got out because of a bad back.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And I go by the name Fritz. And there was
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: a bartender there named Betty who said he was a
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: really well dressed guy. He clearly had money. He was
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: really sort of fascinating and charming. He asked me out
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: like thus second he met me, which is I assume
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: what you do if you three days after you have
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: left your wife and soon to be four kids. Oh well,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: probably ask out the first woman you see. Well we have.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I haven't said it yet, but okay. John Johnson bore
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a really striking resemblance to Larry Bader.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Also, yeah, I mean, didn't people see that coming.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean now they do.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, So this guy, John Johnson aka Fritz, gets a
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: job not there, but at Ross's Steakhouse. And basically it
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, I came from an orphanage in Boston.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: There were twenty two boys in this orphanage. They named
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: us all john Johnson and gave us all nicknames so
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: they could tell us apart instead of just naming us
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: different things. It's very strange, but they called me Fritz
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: because I reminded them of a character from a comic,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: The Kats and Jammer Comic, Cats and Jammer Kids Comic.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Different times during that period, he also would say that
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: his navy buddies thought his haircut made him look like
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: a German soldier, so he went by Fritz. But either way,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: this is some new dude in town, and he was like,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the talk of Omaha.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Betty Johnson's impression was not isolated. Apparently, people who
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: met Fritz Johnson felt essentially the same way that she did.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: Like he was a cool dude that you wanted to
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: be around. Debonair, you could say. But he also was
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: a bit of a character. And by a bit, let
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: me just say that he bought a hearse and rearranged
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: the back so that it was like a little lounge
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: area for him when he picked up women on dates.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And I saw one place but it was a legitimate source,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: like a contemporary newspaper article that said that it he
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: had somehow gotten it licensed with the city as a
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: hunting vehicle. Can you imagine anything more nineteen fifty seven
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: than that nineteen fifty seven bachelor?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was an avid hunter.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: That is not what he was going for.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: You think it? Is it? I mean, I don't know.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, you don't put a lounge area in the back
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: of your heart for dead deer.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I know. But do you think he
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: had it licensed as a hunting vehicle because like he
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: was hunting ladies and he just want to be able
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: to tell people that yes I do. Okay, I don't agree.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine, but either way with UPI buddy.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: He's an eccentric dude. He wears a leather beret. His
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: apartment apparently was just a bunch of like beanbags and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: throw pillows. He had champagne parties, he had Sime's fighting fish.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: He was an archer. He said, you know, I hurt
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: my back, and so archery really helped strengthen the back,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: and so I took up archery. And then five weeks
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: later he's won a state championship in Nebraska and then
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: one's thirteen I believe twelve more thirteen total archery titles
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: in the state, and at parties would do the eat
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: the whole Chicken, including the bone.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Trick and the last three listeners.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: That's right, so's he's working at the bar, but he
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: butties up with a guy that works at a radio
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: station kbo IN, and he lets him come in there
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: to kind of just monkey around because he was interested
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: in broadcasting. And he's monkeying around enough to where he
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: figures it out and deers himself like he seems to
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: be doing to everybody gets a job as a DJ
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: reading the news.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to just backtrack a little bit and
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: specifically say there was nobody in any interview or any
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: article that I read about this who seemed to think
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: that Fritz Johnson was a creep or like a jerk,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: or like a sicko or anything like that. I know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: he kind of painted him a little questionably, but there
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: doesn't seem to be anybody who had any kind of
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: weird vibes from him at all. He was just a
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: fun guy to be around and just living up the
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: bachelor life. Apparently he was saying like I spent you know,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: my youth and an orphanage having to listen to the
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: people who ran the place tell me what to do.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I spent fourteen years in the Navy listening to them
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: tell me what to do. And now I'm finally free.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I'm living it up. So that's essentially I think the best,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: the best way to paint his character is that he
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: was living it up his newfound freedom.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure he and we can talk about some
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: more of his plamboyants, just because it's simply really funny
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and interesting. When he wrote a personal check to someone,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: he would sign it Fritz only, and then he wouldn't
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: put it in a date. I don't know why I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: love this so much. He wouldn't put a date. He
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: would just put a season. So he would write a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: check to someone on the date of, you know, autumn,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: and then he would just sign it Fritz.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Isn't that weird that they would catch I.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Think it's well, it's a nineteen fifties. I guess stuff
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: like that would happen. It was also the nineteen fifties,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: so you could collect your tip money as a bartender
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: in a milk bottle and then just go hand that
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: milk bottle to the uncounted to the person working at
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the bank and fill out the deposit slip one court
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: of money. And I'm sure they thought, oh, he's such
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: a character, but like, now I got to count on
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: the stuff. Yeah, thank good, lot, dude.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, every time he made that deposit, he think to himself,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: are you going to withhold the milk deliveries?
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: H yeah exactly.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So one of the other things that he was known
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: for is being a little unkind to friends who were
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: engaged or married or about to get married. He was like,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: marriage is just another way to trap a fella. Yeah,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: whoever gets married is a sap. Probably said something.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Along those lines, that old thing.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: And then a few years after he appeared in Omaha
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty one, he got married. Yeah, he got
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: married to a model named Nancy Zimmer who was twenty
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: one at the time, and she had a daughter from
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: her first marriage. She said later that they were just
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: too young, and not only did Fritz Johnson adopt her daughter,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: they also had their own son. So he had a
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: family all of a sudden, within just a couple of years.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he's working part time at the radio station,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: eventually works full time there and then transfers over to
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: TV when he got a job at k E TV,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: the local affiliate there, eventually getting promoted up to sports
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: director and also on the side, he was advising, like consulting,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I guess for archery companies because he was just so
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: good at it.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And he's like, well, maybe consider making the arrows straight.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: And it's MARCHERI at the camp. We took a big
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: family trip with a bunch of families, and I got
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the archery set out and it was quite fun and
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I'm a pretty good shot.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, any bulls eyes.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was hitting some bulls eyes on the rag.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And I've never even done much archery. It just seems intuitive,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: you know, just kind of hold it steady and aim
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: at the thing and then let it go.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: You're like, I'm just as surprised as any of you.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: I really was.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: How far away though, are we talking like five feet?
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what standard archery is. I
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: was shooting I bet from about probably from about thirty
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: five feet would be my guest.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Oh that is good man.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I don't know what standard is. But everyone's like, oh, yeah,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: I can come up here on the time and do this.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: I was like, I actually never do this. I'm just
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: good at it.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you just have to say that out loud with
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: every shot.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I know, like, don't compliment me because you think I've
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: worked at.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: This, right, this is all blind luck.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Speaking of blind luck, one of the other things that
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: kind of made Fritz Johnson a noted character around town
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: is that he ended up donning an eyepatch. And he
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: was one of those eyepatch wears who really needed one
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: because they found a tumor behind his eye, I think
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: his left eye, and to remove the tumor, they had
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: to permanently remove his left eye. So he wore an
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: eye patch rather jauntily from what I can tell, and
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: that just made his legend even more so, Like one
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: of the local lod TV announcers now wears an eye
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: patch with his little pencil thin mustache and everybody just
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: loves the sky so much.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you something, Uh, are you saying that
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: there are people who wear eye patches just for attention
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: that don't need them?
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I've never met one, but yes, I'm
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: sure those people out there there that's I mean, they're
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: they're the same people who wear glasses. That's how they start.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: It's the gateway. Drug is like wearing glasses that you
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: don't actually work.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: You know that I did that? I know? Are you well?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: The ipatch were waiting to happen.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Oh man, I hope someone writes in that knows somebody
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: or maybe that even did that for a time. If
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: you did this in middle school, you get a pass
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: like it seems like something John Hodgman might have done
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: in middle school.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, for sure. But yeah, also not as
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: a pirate. You can't be dressed as a pirate of no, no, no,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: just be like normal street clothes.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing, that's the rules. Should we take our now?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think there's no other place to take our
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: second break on this?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: All right? We got another big reveal coming up right
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: it for.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: This all right?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So I promised a big reveal. Things are going great
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: for old Fritzy. He's in a town, he's scoring with
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the ladies in the back of a hearse, he's eating
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: chickens through the bone and people think it's the best
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: thing you've ever seen. He's on TV, for goodness sakes,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: with an eye patch.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Can I say one more thing about the chicken eating thing.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, how do you eat bones? No?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: I mean I can get that if you cook a
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: chicken enough, like it can.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Be just dissolve it sort of.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, the thing is this that's not a party
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: trick that you do quickly. People don't have to stand
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: around you for possibly dozens of minutes while you do
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: this trick.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: So everybody watch this right.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Stop what you're doing and come over and quietly watch me,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: like it takes a real showman to hold people's interest
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: while you're eating a whole chicken.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the only party trick I ever did
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: is that thing with the hat against the wall, and
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that takes like two seconds. M.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that is.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: You put a like a baseball cap on backwards and
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: then you can kind of get up against a wall
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: and then you act like you're blowing your cheeks out,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: and what you're doing is putting the brim against the
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: wall such that the hat kind of levitates off your
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: head like you're blowing it off your head.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Oh that's I want to see that. Why have you
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: never done that for me?
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Hey, buddy, next time I see you. The only I
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: mean I haven't done it for years because I refuse
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: to put a baseball cap on backwards because I'm a
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: human adult. But I'll do it for you.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Okay. The guys out there with their hat on backwards, right,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: they were like, what's wrong? Is that not cool? No,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: it's not.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: My only party trick was holding my breath until I fainted.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Right, Did you ever do that?
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah? We used to do that where you'd hold your
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: breath like you bend over and hyperventilate yourself and take
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: that last breath, cross your hands or your chest, and
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: your friend just push as hard as they could on
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: your chest and you just faint.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I did it once, and this is something you should
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: not do. It's dangerous.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I shouldn't have that tone of voice right now.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: But like it was super fun. Yeah, actually pass out?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah I did one time. And that was the
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: only time I had ever passed out up into that point,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: and it was very, very strange.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: It was very strange. I remember feeling like I was
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: dropping in on a halfpipe on a skateboard. As I went,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: oh cool, I was kind of like, this is all right.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: We didn't do it long.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do not try this. It is such a bad idea.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I can't believe we were even talking about it.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we should probably edit this out. Yeah, I'm sure
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Jerry will with her responsibleness all right.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: So, like I said, he's living his best life. Then
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: on February second, nineteen sixty five, a guy who knew
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: John Bader disappeared. Man saw Fritzy at an archery demonstration
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: at a Sporting Good show in Chicago and was like,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: that's Larry Bater, Like I would bet my life on it.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And his niece lives nearby, and I know this, so
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I'm going to call her. She's twenty one years old,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: her name is her name is Susannah. She drives over
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: and she's like uncle Larry basically pretty much.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He quote was pardon me, but aren't you my
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: uncle Larry Bater, who disappeared seven years ago. Yeah, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: he was like ho ho ho, no, I'm not go away.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Actually supposedly he was super polite, yeah, but was quite
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: insistent that they had the wrong person.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: He said, would you like to see my hearse? Right?
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: But the.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Resemblance was enough that then Susannah turned around and called
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: hers Larry's brothers, and they I think got on the
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: phone with this guy, and his voice enough convinced them
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: that they should fly out to Chicago. They flowted Chicago.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Suddenly this guy's like, man, I wish I didn't have
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: to work this convention. People are surrounding me and telling
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: me I'm another person, and so to kind of settle
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the whole thing, he's like, how about this, Well, let's
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: go get my fingerprints taken. And they were like, that's
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: a capital idea because our brother was in the Navy too,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: so his records, his fingerprints will be on record. So
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: they went to the local police department, they took his fingerprints,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: They handed him over to the FBI. The FBI compared
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: him to the Navy fingerprints on record of Larry Batter
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and the FBI looked up and said, this is a
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: perfect match.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: That's right. So Fritzi said, it came as a literal
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: physical shock. He said, I don't know anything about that
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: other fellow, and he said, why would I have to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: give my fingerprint? I felt like I was trying to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: get some scam, new double life and new identity, Like
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have gotten fingerprinted. It seemed genuinely like he
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: didn't know and didn't realize this. He's like, I've got
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: all these memories, I remember the orphanage, I remember growing
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: up as Printz Johnson that you're saying these memories are
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: all fake and this is really starting to bum me out,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: to be quite honest.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, if he knew he was hiding from his
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: family and he was found at this sporting goods convention,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: he would have shot like a smoke bomb tipped arrow
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: at the floor and then it vanished as the smoke
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: just choked everyone out.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Oh I could literally smell that. I was so in
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that scene.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: But he didn't do that, and it is a really
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: significant thing, Like he so not only remember if he
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: was Larry Bader who had assumed a new identity to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: agree to fingerprints is a dumb move to begin with,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: but he could have been calling a bluff or something
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Who knows maybe. But he also didn't have It wasn't
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: like he had some awful family life like everyone. By
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: all accounts, he liked. He liked his wife and kids
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and enjoyed being around them as much as any dad
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: did in the nineteen fifties. I'm not saying he was doting,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: but he wasn't like, oh, God, I hate these kids,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and my wife's a real drag.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, it didn't make sense.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a little bit in debt, but it wasn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: like his world was crumbling down around him such that
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: he had to escape. It was all debt that he
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: could get out of with a little bit of work.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: So none of this was making any sense.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: No.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Plus, also one other thing, Chuck, if you're on the
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: run and a new with a new identity, usually the
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: last thing you do is become a local TV personality
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: and a largish city in the United States.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me see if the largest city.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I said, a largish Oh.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh man, that's not what I know.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: The largest city in Nebraska.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so none of this is adding up. He Yeah,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: you would want to keep a low profile, so it
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: didn't make sense.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Well, put, I think that was much more succinct than
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: my whole jam Uh.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: No, I liked it. The whole Omaha thing was great.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: So he hires an attorney, a guy named Harry Farnham.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: This attorney gets a team of psychologists on board. They
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: examine Larry and test him along with the neurologists. Over
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: about a week and a half. The you hypnosis on him.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: They're like, we can't see anything medically wrong with this guy.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like a scam back home, Mary is,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Mary lou Is. She gets this news and
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: she was like, Oh, I mean, I'd kind of moved
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: on with my life. I'm I'm engaged to somebody new
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: who I've been dating for a few years. Yeah, but
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I can't like I'm a good catch, Like I'm not
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: gonna like divorce Larry, Who's seems to be back in
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: my life now.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Initially she said that she wished she'd never been
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: he'd never turned up again, that they had gotten used
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: to life without him, they'd accepted that he died, And yes,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: she moved on and now all of a sudden her life.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: To say it was complicated is a real understatement, Like
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: a handful of people's lives were ruined when that guy,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: the acquaintance of Bader saw Fritz Johnson at that sporting
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: goods convention, like ruined. Not only do you have like
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Mary lou Fritz slash Larry, Larry's wife, Nancy, their kids,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: you also have like the nameless fiance that was engaged
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: to marry Lou like people's lives were completely upended by
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the news of this, and apparently the whole time, Fritz
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Johnson is like, this makes zero sense to me, But
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the FBI said that my fingerprints matched this other guy,
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: and everybody else from Akron is telling me that I'm
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: this other guy. I think I'm Fritz Johnson. But he
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: was resigned, resigned himself to be like, maybe maybe this
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: is right, maybe they're right. He wasn't just he didn't
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: deny it the whole time, and he did not seem
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: fishy at any point. He was also more than willing
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: to talk to the press as this was going on,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: but he was not an attention hound.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, not at all. So Mary, all of a sudden,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: her life is up ended with you know, every regional
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: news outlet is banging on her door. The insurance company
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: was like that forty grand which will be four hundred
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in twenty twenty four, basically life changing money,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: we're gonna need that back, although social Security payments, we're
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: gonna need that back. Even Eddie and his boat rental company,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: it's like, you owe us for boat damages. Johnson Fritzi.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: You know he loses that job, the TV station fires him,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: he gets that marriage annulled, He moves into a YMCA
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: it starts working at the bar again, making one hundred
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: bucks a week, and he's sending money to Mary Lou
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, and I'm think keeping about what like seventy
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: or thirty bucks for himself to live on, And it's
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: just it's upheable everywhere you look.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So a few months later, it's funny
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: she waited a few months. Mary Lou took her for
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: kids and they went to meet him in Chicago, I guess,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: like a neutral city, and they spent the weekend together
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: and she told the press later that she was like,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: he's a great guy, good with the kids, but we're
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: strangers to him, so it was a bit of an
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: awkward weekend. Essentially, the thing is is she didn't really
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: have a choice now, Like she was a Catholic, like
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: you said, she didn't believe in divorce, and now her
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: husband was all of a sudden back, so she has
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to work him back into her
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: life and their kids' lives as minimally disruptive as possible,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: and she's just completely just lost. By this time, Nancy
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Also she was saying, you know, I'm going to stand
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: by my husband Fritz. At some point she even said,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to go back to work to help pay
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Mary lou child support if he's going to stay with me.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: But it just did not. It didn't work out as well.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: So Nancy took her kids and kind of went back
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: into the background to leave Fritz to deal with this
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: whole Akron thing.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole Akron thing. Yeah, I mean, and as kids,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think we mentioned their ages. They were two,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: four to six and unborn when he disappeared, So maybe
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: that six year old has a memory. The others probably
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: had not even any memory of former dad.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Right. So again, he's not denying this. He's saying, I
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: don't get this. This doesn't make sense to me. But
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: he's not like he stopped denying it after the fingerprint thing,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: but not like a oh you caught me kind of thing.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: He seemed genuinely baffled by this. There's a really good
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: kind of Like one of the authoritative articles on this
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: whole thing that was written by the Akron Bacrin Journal
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: in September nineteenth sixty five.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: Beacon, Beacon, what did I say Akron Beacrin, the Akron.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Beacon journal I say it like a local.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: And it's funny because the journalist who wrote this clearly
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: had just read Hell's Angels by Hunter Thompson was trying
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: his hand at it. So like the whole the whole
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: thing starts in this jet flight that he's on on Omaha,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: it ends on the jet flight too, and like he's
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: talking about them walking through the town to the YMC.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: It's just like he wrote himself into this this article.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And it was just kind of funny to see.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: The drugs started to gig in around barstow Right, But
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: what are you doing in barstow Right?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: But there was a quote in there that stood out
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: to me that Fritz Johnson told this guy. He said,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I've begun to think that God might solve the problem.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: And it turns out who was right because later he
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: died from cancer.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Wow, I did not see that quote. Here's just the tip,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: don't I'm not a big superstitious guy, but if you
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: believe stuff like that, don't say it out loud.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Right. You don't want to tempt God to kill you.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: No, because he'll do it just for.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Laughs, just to show you whose ball.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: September sixteenth, nineteen sixty six is when he died. Did
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: you say it was the tumor?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: No, I said cancer, he moved to his liver.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that tumor came back, passed away. First
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Methodist Omaha had a memorial for him. Then he was
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: transported back to Akron buried in his family plot. And now,
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: how many of these explanations do you want to go over?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Because I almost feel like we should just skip to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: the one that you dug up that sounds the most
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: plausible to me.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: I agree wholeheartedly. There was just one other thing I
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: want to say about his two funerals in Omaha. The
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: funeral was given for Fritz Johnson and Akron the funeral
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: was given for Larry Bader, but it was the same body.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: They moved from one city to the other.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's cool.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: That is super cool and a nice little footnote. But
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: like we said, there were some theories that don't seem
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: to hold water about different kinds of amnesia. But then
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: you did some digging, and then I went back and
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: did some further digging once you gave me what you
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: dug And it seems like a lot of people on
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: the Internet, and of course these are Internet people, so
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: it's not like science isn't studying this. It's just sort
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: of one of those things that's left to smart people
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on Reddit. But what the general consensus seems to be
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: on the Internet is that he suffered from what is
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: known as a disassociative fugue, which is a very strange
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: syndrome in which you can have very very sudden, really
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: significant retrograde memory loss that can't be attributed to like
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: being hit on the head really hard or something like.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Other kinds of amnesia can be explained away in other ways,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and this one can't.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, fugue state, I mean, it's basically like they
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: are describing what happened to them. But the essentially what
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: happens is get you have this amnesia, but it wipes
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: out your episodic memory, your biographical memory, and to the
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: point where you accidentally inadvertently move away from home. Depending
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: on how long it lasts, you're going to travel fairly
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: far away from home. When you get to where you're going,
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: you're going to set up a new life, the new identity,
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: make new relationships, and you're not going to have any
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: memory whatsoever of the life that came before this. That's
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: a fugue state. And apparently it is actually real. I
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: looked all over for like, like fake, this is made up.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: It's not correct, Like this is a crackpot theory that
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: some psychologists came up with.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: No.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Dissociative fugue is a widely accepted, very very rare medical
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: condition that they do not know how to explain. There's
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: a struggle between neurology and psychology. Your psychiatry. Is it
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: brain based or is it like a break from some
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: traumatic experience? And apparently it usually is prompted by some
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: negative experience, but it's not something like seeing your family killed.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: It can be something like being twenty four hundred dollars
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty seven dollars in debt and stressed out
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: from that.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Or I mean, here's what I think. I think it
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: could that whole boat trip and fishing expedition was just
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: on the level and that's really just what he was doing.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: He had all that cash and the briefcase, the suitcase
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: because maybe he just didn't want to keep that stuff
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: in the car, and he went out in a really
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: bad storm and had a traumatic event happen out there,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: like maybe being tossed overboard. I think that could have
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: been the stressful event. So that's one thing. Another thing, too,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: is when this disassociative fugue ends, you will probably remember
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: your real life, but you're not going to remember what
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: happened in the fugue state. My explanation there is that
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: he died of a tumor, so that might have happened
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to him given enough time, and he just died before
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: that memory of the real life came back to him.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: So I guess kind of what you're saying is he
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: died in a fugue state, like he never emerged from
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: the fugue state.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Huh, Yeah, that's my theory.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think that's a pretty good theory. Actually, I mean,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: it does seem like he was not malingering, he was
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: not faking. This was not a con. It's a just
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: genuine mystery because also, like he just checks so many
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: boxes for a fugue state, but it's just it usually
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: goes on for what weeks or months, right, not years?
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know, that's what I don't know.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: That's what I saw that really, yeah, but that in
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: that time, you're so convinced of your new identity that
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: you can form relationships that now all of a sudden
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: are jeopardized around the rocks because you don't remember these
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: people anymore, and you're like, what am I doing in Omaha?
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Well when did he die in nineteen sixty six?
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: And when in.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Nineteen sixty five?
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was only like a year, right, I
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: mean that seems plausible for what little I know about it.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hopefully we figure out more about fugue states, because
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: then we'll understand a little more about Larry Batter And
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: if we don't, then we're never going to know what happened,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Like it's just a mystery.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this could I was wondering if this could be
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: a movie, if there's enough there, and then I decided
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: it probably couldn't be a movie, but it could be
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: like probably like a ten part Netflix show.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: A ten hour long movie, yeah, with tons and tons
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: of archery montages.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Oh man, so many?
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: So you got anything else about Larry Bater?
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: I got nothing else? Thanks to Olivia. This is an interesting one.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot. Well how'd you hear about this?
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: I meant to ask you.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: That I am convinced I know that this came from
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: a listener, but I could not find it anywhere an email,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: so I don't think it did. Actually, I think I
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: might have just been searching for, like, you know, kind
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: of crazy story.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Or something, or it came to you in a fugue state.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe I'm not even Chuck Bryant.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Well, Chuck seems like he's having an autobiographical crisis right now,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: and that of course unlocks listener mail.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to call this rare shout out. We don't
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: really give shout outs on listener mail because we get
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: inundated with people saying like, Hi, can you say my
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: sister's name? But we're going to grant this one because
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: it is for a nana and we'd like to honor
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: the nanas.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Of the one.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, hope this message find you well reaching out
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: to request a shout out for Nana. My nana. She's
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: such a huge fan of you both. Every time I call,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: she always mentioned your show, and you would think you
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: guys are family members. If you get into her car,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the bluetooth speaker automatically starts playing an episode. Your show
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: has brought her so much joy over the years and
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: kept her sharp. At the age of eighty one and
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: has given us something to connect over. Because Nana's high
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: praise has got me hooked as well.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: It's awesome.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: For the last few years, she's always dreamed of going
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to one of your live shows, but it's never worked out.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Now with her age, it would be difficult for her
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: to travel to any future potential shows. Mi, Nana is
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the most important person in my life, and I know
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: it would mean the world to hear a message from you. Guys.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: It might be a shot in the dark, but I
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: thought it would try. Thanks for your time and for
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: considering the request. And that is from Nori Shl's or Shalis.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you pronounce it, but Nana, we
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: just want to say thank you and you're great and
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: we appreciate you. And I'm not sure where you live.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe either you or Nori can write in and we
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: can find out kind of how close you are and
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: get you to a show somehow. Maybe we'll go do
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: one at your house or something.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. A
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: show in Nana's living room. That'd be fun, especially if
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: it's an Omaha. I've always wanted to see beautiful Omaha.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be something well.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Nana, thank you very much for not
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: only listening to us all this time, but also for
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: turning Nori on to us. That's pretty great stuff. And
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: if you want to be like Nori and tell us
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: about your awesome grandparent, we want to hear about them.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: and send it off via email to Stuff Podcasts at
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: iHeartRadio dot com.
• 44:18
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• 44:21
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• 44:25
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