Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Throwback! S5 EP 157 - Mastering Movement Quality in Dance

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Throwback! S5 EP 157 - Mastering Movement Quality in Dance · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, it's Courtney, and we're back for our next throwback episode of season seven.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's rewind back to one of our most insightful and listener favorite episodes from season five: Mastering Movement Quality in Dance.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: In this conversation, we dive deep into the essential skill of movement quality.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: How do you teach it?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: And why it may be the one thing that sets you apart from the dancer next to you.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: On this chat, you'll hear from two incredible dance educators, Summer Runner Disher, studio owner of Runner Dance in North Carolina, and Chip Abbott, professional choreographer, performer, and faculty member at the Steps on Broadway and Broadway Dance Center.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're a teacher looking to refine your approach, or a dancer eager to stand out on stage, this conversation will give you tangible tools to build artistry, style, and individuality in every step.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: Let's jump back into season five, episode 157, Mastering Movement Quality in Dance.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's Courtier Tees.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to this week's episode of Making an Impact.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I am your host, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mueller.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, hello.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Leslie, how's it going?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: As of the day of this release, I have just gotten back from Ecuador from a wedding.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: So international travel.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Super excited to have that in my life again after so many years of not being able to go anywhere.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: I've been doing a lot of traveling lately.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And surprisingly, this fall I'm as well doing a lot of international travel, which is so exciting and feels really good to just uh I mean the pl the plane is always the longest, worst part of any trip.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: But then you get to the place there.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so you get to, you know, experience new cultures and new new environments and everything.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think maybe we need to do an episode on that, like how different, you know, exposing yourself to different cultures and different environments will in influence your choreography and your artistry.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Season six years.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: From like the choreographer's point of view and how they are inspired and get that inspiration from maybe different uh life moments throughout.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I definitely think that there is that heavy influence when you go see, go to a new place and you're like, oh, I should do a dance about this this, you know, awesome city that I experienced and the vibe of the city.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of the vibe, we talk all about that in this week's episode of Making the Impact because today we're talking about movement quality, how to teach it and what it means.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I think we're also talking about style in the mix.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: So if you've ever said, oh, that dancer has great style, oh, that dancer has beautiful movement quality, we're here to chat all about that and tell you how to do it, how to do it better, exercises and skills, all the things.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited to jump into this chat.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a it's a a fun one, but also I think that movement quality is a tough thing to kind of navigate.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's and it's so individual and it's one of those things where you can't just say, you know, a technical way to do it.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's not, because it's individual and it's it's innate and it's part of your, it's part of you, like your personal expression of movement.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's kind of it's a little complicated, but at the same time, it's simple, which makes it beautiful.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna talk all about it today with our two amazing guests.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: All right, listeners.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to jump into this week's episode, and I'm really excited about this one because we're talking about how to teach movement quality and style in your dancer's movement.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure a lot of people out there are like, well, what even is movement quality?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you've heard that as a compliment on your critique, oh, beautiful movement quality at competition throughout your choreography.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe that's something that you know as a studio that your dancers are lacking in the studio setting.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna talk all about that today with two brand new guests who are joining us on the podcast who are fantastic dance educators.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to hear from them and hear their tips and tricks that might be helpful for you to implement into your studio training.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: The first guest that I'm excited to welcome to the podcast is someone that I've known for a while and have had the opportunity to teach their students last summer, which was so much fun.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: They are so talented and I've been admiring them for a while.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I now that I'm thinking about it, I also taught uh her dancers on Zoom over the pandemic, which, you know, gotta love a Zoom class.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's always fun.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I was really excited to finally get in person in the studio and work on some jazz dance with her stunning contemporary dancers.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome studio owner Summer Renner Disher to the podcast.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Summer.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here and um talk some movement quality today.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Super, super excited.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: We're thrilled to have you.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I know for this chat, I really wanted to have a studio owner perspective and obviously a dance educator who is hands-on in the studio every single day with dancers.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, young training dancers, because it is a tough thing to teach.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sure you have navigated it through your years as a studio owner.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: But also, we wanted to have like a contemporary perspective on this because uh y'all do everything at Runner Dance.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but I I feel like that if people are familiar with your studio, they might be like, oh my gosh, the beautiful contemporary technicians, like, wow, their movement quality is stunning.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that's immediately who I thought.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, we should have ru Summer on the episode.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: So here we are.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so Summer, if you wouldn't mind just telling everybody out there a little bit more about you, where you grew up, where you trained, any career credits, and where you're at now.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I grew up in Northern Virginia, right outside of DC.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I danced at a a heavy competition studio, but we also trained a lot in technique.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also went to Washington Ballet throughout my time there.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up doing their early release program in high school.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would go to my competition studio and I did their early release program, which was a feeder into the company.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, during that time too, I ended up getting the Rocket Intensive Scholarship from NYCDA.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of changed my thinking of like I want to be a ballerina to like maybe I want to dabble in this.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's pretty cool.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up graduating from high school, I went to Florida State University and got a BFA in dance there.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was also on the um, I was captain of the Florida State Golden Girls Dance Team.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that too there, which was awesome.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Then I graduated, I moved to New York City, I auditioned for Rockets and I I made that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that for six seasons, and then I ended up getting injured and I just couldn't handle it anymore.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, and actually my husband told me, You're done.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Cause he couldn't stand me calling and being like, ah, I made it, but it was rough.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up moving to North Carolina.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: My brother played football here, and my parents kind of retired here from Northern Virginia.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up opening my own dance studio here, and it's been a huge blessing to me and uh super awesome because we kind of trained dancers for with the professional, you know, train of thought in mind.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So we do have recreational students and we have like all levels of that and competition students.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: But really, like my goal is to train dancers, the next generation of dancers, to dance professionally.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I also am the coach of the UNC Carolina girls' dance team, so I do that too here.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of dabble in everything, but uh, but we love we love all dancers, and we're I'm excited to be here today with you guys.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: So yay, that's awesome.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to have you.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what's funny while I was listening to you, I feel like I hear a little bit of that like southern uh accent coming through, even though I know I know.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I've adapted that a little bit.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I was gonna say because I'm like, I hear a little bit of it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: But what you said you're from the DC, Virginia area.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, well, there could be a little, you know, southern in there, but yeah, you're surrounded down in you're in Raleigh, North Carolina.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure there's a lot of thick accents down there.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there are.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: There definitely are.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's becoming a big area too.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a good area.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: We love it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So and a lot of studios in that area.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: There it is saturated.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're technically in Chapel Hill.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're about 25 minutes away from Raleigh, but like, you know, there are a ton of studios down here.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh we're, you know, great with all of them, and they all serve different purposes and do different things, which I think is also really cool.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a cool little tight-knit studio in our community down here that's really nice.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Love to hear that.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for spending your morning over here with us.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, our next special guest is another new guest to our podcast and an old-time friend of Leslie and I.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: He is an amazing educator and choreographer based in New York City.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: You can take his class at Steps on Broadway and Broadway Dance Center.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you're ever in the city, make sure you do.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited to welcome Chip Abbott to the podcast.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Chip.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_05: Hi, thanks for having me.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_05: I'm so excited to talk some style with you today.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: You are such a great stylized dancer in all of your choreography, but even as a dancer yourself, you bring such style and charisma and presence to the stage.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that now as an educator, and you're teaching, you know, at steps and everywhere, you teach children as well.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm sure that you've probably figured out, okay, how can I give them more style and give them ideas on how to embody this style more through your jazz, through your contemporary, through your lyrical.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't wait to hear what you have to share about this with us today.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_05: That's so nice of you to say.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Chip, same, same type of deal.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you wouldn't mind telling us where you grew up, what your early training was like, any career credits, and what you're working on.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I grew up in Carson City, Nevada, just outside of like the Lake Tahoe area.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_05: And I was lucky enough to have this gem of a dance teacher named Gina Kaske Davis, who came over from London to do a show in Reno and then stayed.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_05: So we were, we were lucky enough to get, you know, training from Gina that I don't think we would have had if she hadn't relocated to the area, you know.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_05: So it was a ballet studio that was primarily ballet-based, and then had, you know, Gina who did jazz and tap.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_05: And then after that, I I graduated, um, after I graduated high school, I went on to Oklahoma City University, where Leslie also went.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, I spent four years at OCU.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's a you know, pretty heavily focused theater dance program.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_05: You know, of course, you're studying many different styles, but I would say at its core, it's um, you know, it's it's training, you know, roquettes and musical theater types.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: And then of course, you know, being the the person who swims upstream that I am, I after college didn't go into theater dance at all.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: I um I was an apprentice at River North Chicago Dance Company and then Houston Metropolitan Dance Company.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: And then after a little bit of time at both of those companies, I moved to New York and kind of dug back into my my theater roots.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_05: I was lucky enough to do uh, you know, the Radio City Christmas Spectacular as well.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm actually wondering if like Summer and I maybe did the show together.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you look super familiar, but yeah, same, same.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_05: But you know how it is.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_05: There was like 75 people in each cast of the same casts.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: You could have always been on the opposite cast if you were ever in Japan.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, right.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_05: Totally.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I did the Christmas spectacular in New York.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_05: I was the assistant choreographer of the Broadway revival of On the Town.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_05: I was also the dance captain and swing for that show.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: I was in the Broadway company of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and you know, I um I went out on the Cinderella tour as well, the first national tour of Cinderella, and I sustained a pretty intense back injury that led to a surgery that has kind of transitioned me a little bit more into director-choreographer worlds.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: Or I do a lot of corporate entertainment, you know, for RWS uh entertainment group on cruise ships theme parks.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm currently working on uh there's a one-night concert at Geffenhall at Lincoln Center in February that I'm associate director and co-choreographer for.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then teaching whenever possible at Stephs on Broadway and BDC.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_05: As much as possible.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_05: Stephs and BDC.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, amazing, Chip.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: What a beautiful career you've had and continue to have.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we're very thrilled to have you here on the podcast.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_05: I've been very lucky.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: I love it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's jump in and chat all about style and movement quality today.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sound good, Leslie?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: You ready to go?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome, friends.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love to hear about your backgrounds.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And while we had do have some similarities between your backgrounds, I think the differences are going to be really interesting to speak about how you experience learning movement quality as a young dancer and then how you both implement teaching it in your different avenues.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love for us to just get started because Courtney, you mentioned this earlier.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: What exactly is movement quality?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that that it's something we talk about as if everybody knows what this is.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think everybody knows what this is.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So could y'all give us sort of a working definition of what you consider movement quality to be?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I would say that movement quality is the way that a dancer moves from one piece of movement to the other to execute choreography.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if they have a skill or uh, you know, a trick, as we like to call it, it's the way they move through the space from one thing to the next and how they transition.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think transitions is an extremely important part of that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I preach it daily.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even to young kids, because I feel like if they learn even a piece of it at a young age, then they can transfer that, you know, throughout their their career and what they do.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I teach it starting from a very young age.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_05: I've thought about it a lot, uh, how to define movement quality.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_05: And I I would almost describe it as, you know, we have movement at its core, and then there's a varnish or a finish that goes on top of that, on top of that movement, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that there's a few things that go into play.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_05: I think point of view is really important, you know, not only, you know, what is the step, but what am I communicating?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, there's gonna be some dances where we're not communicating with an audience a specific story, but there is a connection.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, sometimes vibe, you know, how do I want my audience to feel?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_05: So I think point of view and and the lens in which the movement is presented or seen through is kind of how I would I would categorize uh or define movement quality.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_05: You know, there's so many different things that come into play: texture, dynamic, relationship with the music, you know.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_05: Because there's a it seems to be like there's an aesthetic aspect as well as an emotional aspect, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_05: And kind of like how do we fuse those two.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: It's great.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I it reminds me of my favorite movie, Dirty Dancing, where Patrick Swayze puts his hand on Jennifer Gray's chest and he goes, you know, it's just a feeling.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: G-gung.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like that's that's what it is.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just we're doing this step, but it's how you feel and how you portray that feeling through it.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And gosh, you just gotta love Patrick Swayze.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love what you just said about like the the the finish on top.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a really great uh way to look at it for a lot of listeners out there that still might not have understood what it is, but you can do movement in any way you with the right intention behind how you're interpreting the movement, even kind of cross crossing through different genres, the same movement can become hip-hop, can become contemporary, can become jazz on how you approach it with some of those layers like you talked about chip like dynamics and texture and things.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's really where movement quality can kind of like be separated and and unique in its own way.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: But again, like that's hard.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm excited to hear that you teach that so young, because yes, transitions are a huge part of it, but like to me, I feel like that I don't feel like I really learned movement quality until or maybe grasp the concept of it until maybe like teen.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I like me, like looking back at what I like.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think, and and maybe, maybe a lot of kids are like that, but I think the kids are just so focused on like I gotta get my tricks and I gotta do this and my look at all the genres I'm doing, all these things going through their head.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: The last thing they're thinking about are their transitions and how they move through space.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You have to, you have to impart to them that that is important.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some are I'm interested to hear about you you mentioned earlier transitions, and I guess let's just jump right into that because I think that really is such an important part of it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, there, you know, you can do all the tricks you want, but that's it's a you know, it's difficult to say, okay, do a bot ma by itself with this movement quality, but it's what happens before and after it that matters.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you you mentioned you start doing this at a young age?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is sort of your process in terms of getting them to understand why that's important and and how to even execute something that's not just here's this thing I know how to do.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like I said, like our goal is to have them always thinking forward.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, especially my kids that are that are talented, very talented, and want to do this as a career, I'm always like, what's your goal?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's figure out how to get there.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not to win a dance competition, but what's your goal past that?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we always, that's always in the back of our minds and the back end of their minds too.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So even an eight-year-old that's uber talented that wants to do this, you know, we do the bat ma, we do the technical skill because my kids take a ton of ballet, but then like maybe they do the botmoth, but they have a roll through with their body the next movement.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: So like they're learning how to articulate through their body with just that one move.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So then, you know, we still do all the developmental things of doing the botmas and doing, you know, how to roll up through the floor and things like that.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: But like I at least put in, I don't know, four or five movements in an eight-year-old solo that teaches them how to start to move their body and really get through those transitions.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also created a drill, actually, that's a transitional drill because I was realizing my my kids really needed that to improve their movement quality.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: But even my teens, you know, transitioning like from a junior to a teen, I feel like is huge in this dance world.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, they're going past like the sparkly costumes and then a teen.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want that anymore.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So like it's okay, it's okay to do the tricks and all the things at the junior age, but the teen is a totally different thing.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: So at least if they've had some of that through the mini junior years, then it's easier for them to transition.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I was still finding my kids were like having a hard time really grasping the concept of like getting into the ground and being grounded and um using the transitions.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually created a drill and it starts with just like a passe balance and then it moves to like plie through the floor, passe balance again, plie, passe balance again.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we do a wolf turn into like a sustained hold.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: But they're really only focusing on the transitions of all of those elements at the same time of like, you know, figuring out how to balance and hold their core.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've also figured out that like the core is a big, is a big thing in that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're like super flexible and they've, you know, done a lot of winning throughout their time as like a mini and junior because they have that flexibility.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that transition to a teen is hard because they're working through those transitions, but they're not quite there yet.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I created a a series of drills that we do really around that junior to teen transition age.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's actually it's actually been helpful for them.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: So and I'm sure like having those drills that you can do, all right, let's do drill, whatever the drill is called, like they know what it is, repetition, they can practice that, and then it's gonna be then you can pull from those drills and say, all right, now we're gonna do this in the authy, and it's gonna be a seamless uh transition for from training toography, where they're not like, This is something new I've never done before.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm stressed, oh my God, you know.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, exactly.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why we start that at a at a young age, you know.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we like to do.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But and a lot of times when I say, Oh, we're gonna do the transition drill, they go, Oh that thing again.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it does take a while, but it it, you know, really does help them feel grounded into the floor.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: We also do like uh when we do across the floor, even in progressions, like towards the end, I always give them like a combo across the floor, um, at least one or two.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it in within that combo, I put two or three elements of them having to move through the space that require them to have movement quality, even if they don't realize it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that that also helps.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sprinkling it in through the training.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: They don't even know what's happening.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: But guess what?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're learning how to have style and move the body.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_05: I love it too.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_05: It it's, you know, when you think about it too, a lot of our training is really either rewiring habits or developing good habits, you know, and if we can make performance quality and quality of movement a habit, you know, that that we instantly turn on, and you're right, like it, it's it's evident in all of those transition steps.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's it's it's kind of amazing how little focus there is in in, you know, on transition steps, things like pot of race, things like you know, getting down into the plie before a channae, or you know, depending on like how you're getting into the Shannae, but um you know, we we focus so much on the dynamic movements, the batmas, the pirouettes, you know.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_05: And some are like, you know, you're speaking about how you're you're training young dancers to be professionals.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, as a professional, like point of view is king, you know, like we can take out the batmas, we can take out the pirouettes, you know, but what we can't do is infuse like personality, style, and movement quality into someone.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's what like separates a dancer in the professional world.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, totally, yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_05: And we also have to remember too that like the the you know, the audiences that we're creating for don't know.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like they don't know if the hip is supposed to be up or down in a botmob, you know.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, they don't care.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_05: They're they see a leg go up high and then they they feel something in between in that transition.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_05: And like, yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I say I say that a lot in the sense that when you become a professional, what do you have that the dancer next to you doesn't?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: When you're in a pool and you're in a room fighting for the same job, doing the same organ as everyone else that's standing next to you.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: What do you have besides just a fierce Bot Ma?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Besides the triple pirouette.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: What else are you bringing to the table?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because you could have those things and then not get the choreography, not retain the details, not can't pick it up quick enough.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Those could be reasons why.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: But it also could be you're doing all the things right, and then you have this extra something special about you, this like something behind the eyes, like a nice style.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: You really listen to what the choreographer said as far as I want this to live in this world.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: How does that make you feel?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: How do you, how do you enhance your movement with that in mind, with that story in mind?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, I think point of view is such a good something I actually didn't think about when I think of movement quality, but I think it's so crucial.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you know, and I think it's mostly it's mostly from an acting perspective for me, you know, because I I feel like I've been lucky within my career and my training to kind of always transition from one thing to the next.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like if when I'm in a ballet class, I will pretend like I am at ABT when I'm at the bar.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_05: You know?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_05: And then when I'm, you know, when I'm in a tap class, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna be down into the floor and like, well, if it's a tap class, I'm praying because I'm not a great taper, but I will fake it till I make it, you know.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_05: Amazing.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it's just knowing, you know, knowing what what's the idea and the vibe that you're trying to convey can really have an impact on on how your your movement is perceived.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: Dancers, have you ever gotten feedback at competition and thought, wait, what did that correction even mean?
• 24:45
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• 24:53
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• 24:57
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• 25:03
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• 25:10
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• 25:18
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• 25:21
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• 25:25
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• 25:35
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• 25:39
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• 25:44
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• 25:55
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• 25:57
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• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: What have you noticed, Chip, as a teacher and a choreographer in the professional setting?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're going to be getting students from all walks of life and all places at BDC and Steps and everything.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you noticing just sort of any sort of trend or anything from these students regarding movement quality?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you seeing people come in already having those things?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you still at that point in people's careers and levels having to really impart how to do this?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really curious because we know what it's like, you know, as teaching beginner students as children, like they just don't know they're a blank slate.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So do you think studios worldwide, you know, who are feeding into your programs, are they doing the job?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna be really honest.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's very rare that I I see, you know, dancers that are able to apply, you know, movement quality and style habitually, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_05: Like it just becomes like, you know, second nature.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it is because it is a practice skill.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I I think, you know, doing what Summer's doing, where you start them young, you know, so that it just becomes second nature.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_05: You don't even have to think about it.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_05: You're able to like look at a shape and know.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_05: I'll say like my biggest, my biggest like light bulb moment in class is like looking at isolations.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_05: You know, the the first part of my warm-up, like we reach up, we go down to the ground, and then we roll our shoulders back, you know?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_05: And I've started seeing that sh shoulder roll turns into a body roll, right?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like people start putting like the ribs into it, and I'm like, ah, it's just the shoulders.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna get to other isolations later.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I I think my biggest thing is that learning how to isolate specific parts of the body, you know, like I've I've found that people don't really know how to contract anymore, you know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_05: And what's tricky about teaching at, you know, places like Steps and Broadway Dance Center is, you know, primarily most of your class base is working professional dancers or people who are auditioning or people who are interested in, you know, becoming professional performers that come to the city for a day or two and are taking class, you know.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, there's that delicate balance of like, do I correct, do I not?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_05: But in my class I do because they think it's important.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_05: You know, they've spent money to be there.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_05: And and I will say, like, the biggest thing is use of the spine, like use of the pelvis, knowing how to get into those deep contractions with a plie.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_05: Does that answer your question at all?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: It does, yeah.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I'm I'm just curious because you get people who, yes, like you said, our professionals do this daily, but maybe they're not taking your class daily.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: So who who's who is helping them facilitate a movement quality if they're not consistently going to class, like kids at Summer's Studio?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting, if if they're at a studio like Summers, they're getting feedback and reinforcement of this is how we do this.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: But if they didn't have that growing up and then they step into Chip Abbott's class once every month because that's when they can afford it, like how, you know, how does that work?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting that you say, you know, you don't necessarily see it.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_05: I change up, I also change the style too.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it is my class is marketed as a as a theater jazz class, but like, you know, like one, I know it's always such a do what you want.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, right.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_05: I change it.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, sometimes like, you know, we'll do like a Gloria Estefan combo, and then we'll do like a Frank Sinatra combo, and then we'll do a Jesse Ware combo.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's like it's kind of all over because I think that we need to be able to adapt to what's given to us, you know.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_05: And when we are talking about movement quality and style, like it can totally vary based on the song.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So many based on, you know, it can still be a jazz class, but the style of the song that is being presented is gonna be a completely different quality in your movement to in a match the vibe of the song, the vibe that you keep referencing, chip.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I want to just chime in really quick about the professional dancer chat.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that especially like being able to watch dancers on Instagram now, like we can see like what's happening in Los Angeles and what's happening in in NYC.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I now know a lot of dancers who are breaking into the professional world.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've known them as a competitive dancer, and now I'm seeing them move to Los Angeles and see them in videos and you know, all the things.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that a lot of dancers don't find the movement quality and style until they're exposed to it in the major cities.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And they're able to go into a variety of different classes with a variety of different styles and a variety of different teachers that aren't just their home studio teachers that they've only known.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And like, yes, maybe you've gone to convention, but that's a one-hour class, like once.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like now you can actually go to Chip's class every week if you want to and learn that style.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can go to Miles Keeney's class and learn that style, and then you can go to this person's class.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think being exposed to that is when dancers really discover it.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then that enhances their movement quality across the board.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's the flip side of are you actually getting the corrections within that genre to be able to understand if you're doing the quality correctly, or are you just going through the motions because it feels good and we're having fun and like, yes, I love hip hop, like yes, yes, yes.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: But are you doing it right?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you just having a good time?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, there's a lot of dancers that I see, and especially like again, going back to the audition chat, where everyone's just kind of the same and there's nothing really special about them.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's it's not it's not that it's bad.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're a great dancer.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Technique's there, you know, you're doing all the things right.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: But there's something, there's the style that's missing.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then how do you learn that if no one's telling you what's wrong?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because you don't really get feedback often in a professional world, you just get cut.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: You just you just get cut.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Feedback, you just get cut.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Jeez.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's honest.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's honest truth.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, so I think that's hard, is if you're not walking into the professional world with that uh stylized movement and quality right away.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's gonna you're gonna discover it from being exposed to so many um different types of teachers and genres in the professional setting, and it's gonna enhance your dancing no matter what.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, like, are you adapting enough and self-correcting yourself as well to apply it properly?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the versatility and training, like growing up, is really, really important because if they train like that throughout their, you know, young dance life, it's easier to figure that out, like once they leave the home studio.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, I mean, I didn't, I don't think I really figured out movement quality until I was in college, to be honest.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was exposed to a lot more modern.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like Chip was saying, like figuring out those contractions like deeper.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I had been, I was really blessed to go to a really great studio and I I, you know, did understand that going in, but I don't think I fully got it until I was exposed to, you know, the college modern that I got, and then like moving to New York and taking those BDC classes and stuff.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: But like I think we sometimes aren't giving the kids growing up as much versatility as they need to kind of experience that, like you were saying, Courtney, like the funness of it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because at that point, like it it is kind of fun, and you are kind of like trying to get them to figure out their own body and how they move.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, we do a lot of improv drills that way too.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll be like, you know, okay, across the floor, go eight counts on the floor, then you figure out the next eight counts is your middle level, then the next eight counts is the high level, or you know, the the first halfway across the floor, you're doing figure out like you're moving through the pool, like resisting.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Then the next eight counts is like sharp hitting things, you know.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But we do that with jazz, we do that with contemporary, we do it, we even do it with like ballet type, like contemporary ballet and musical theater.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I will play a random song and the kids love it because they think they're having fun.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like, you know, figure out, you know, how how does this make you feel now improv to it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we do a lot of that kind of training too, but I think the versatility of the training is really important from a young age to start thinking about that.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_05: I love that because I think one of the biggest things when dancers do, you know, leave the nest and move to these bigger cities, quite often it feels like this is gonna sound rude, but like they don't know who they are, or they don't know they don't know what looks good on them, or they don't even know like how they like to move, you know?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_05: And by giving them the opportunity to experiment experiment like that and and like, you know, because some of our dance training can get so rigid and so where we like rules, but rules sometimes are made to be broken, you know.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_05: And those rule breakers are the ones that are gonna stand out, you know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_05: But the only way that we can we can get them there is to allow them the space to explore, you know.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's that's I love that you brought up improv summer because I didn't have that growing up.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't something we did at my studio, it wasn't something we did in college.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was because we didn't take we didn't take modern or contemporary.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: We took ballet tap and jazz and theater dance.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there was no improv in my experience, at least at OCU.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, maybe they're changing things up now because it is so important.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: But like I didn't have that growing up, so I didn't know how my what my movement quality was or how I was able to, you know, all the different ways I could possibly move and what felt good on me until kind of New York City.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like, oh, oh, there's so much more out there.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like so, I think that's such an important conversation for studios who, you know, maybe have an owner or a or teachers, you know, similar to like I'm I could own a studio.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't grow up doing improv, so I probably wouldn't be teaching it.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure there's plenty of studios out there who don't teach it because they didn't get exposed to it themselves.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: But but like that is clearly such an important piece of teaching movement quality is allowing people to develop their own movement quality.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, yes.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I love what you said, Chip, about like discovering who you are as a dancer.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's really crucial.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that a lot of dancers have an idea.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is my favorite genre.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love this style of dance.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you do.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Does this suit you the best?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is this what, like, is this you can you have a career in that style?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: You might love it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, are you just doing it for fun?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's great too.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: But like, especially when you say, I'm going to be a professional dancer.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, what kind of dancer are you gonna be?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many options.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna be an everything dancer?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna focus on contemporary?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna be jazz dancer on Broadway?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, who are you in this world?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And are you gonna limit yourself to like, you know, go into one genre and one box?
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you gonna be open?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Even like listen to Chip's story, listen to Summer's story.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: They were like Summer was gonna be a ballerina, and next thing you know, she's a roquette.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you have to be open to those types of things, and that's when you really discover yourself and find what works for you in the quality of movement that suits you best.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: I like my example, I thought I was gonna be a contemporary dancer, and everyone knows me as a jazz dancer, but I moved to New York City thinking I'm gonna be a contemporary modern dancer and I'm gonna do all the because that was cool back then.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was like So you probably would have been great.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be real.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my my jazz movement is heavily rooted and influenced in modern and contemporary dance.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But again, it's like I found the love of jazz that I remember doing my Broadway solos like at 11, 12 years old in competition.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm surrounded by that in New York City.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's what's like sits well with me now.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, I can jump into contemporary, but like it it is hard to kind of figure out who am I in this world and discovering yourself.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I know for me, it took leaving my home studio and being exposed to everything else that's out there to really wrap my head around that.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yep, absolutely.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the easy thing, I mean, the good thing is now, you know, not only do we have Zoom classes, we have the internet, you know, you can be exposed, but you can go to conventions.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like Courtney, you said, it's maybe it's only one day, but it's better than nothing.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it's better than just being in your bubble of, okay, I've had the same four teachers my whole life.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like those teachers are wonderful.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also more out there, you know.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's such a great the world is just so great.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: The dance world's so great.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much out there for us.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: My kids take everywhere and everything.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: My kids are are um very heavy.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: They love, they love the conventions, they go all the time and I let them go by themselves, as Leslie probably knows.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: They go sing your name.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: They go every weekend there somewhere.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not every weekend, but when they when they want to, and I let them be as involved in it as they want to be.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: But they also, especially my older kids, do take the advantage of the steps online classes a lot.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: They do, they do it a ton, and I'm like, good, go take it as much as you can, because I wish I had that like when I was growing up, because I would have done it all the time and I would have been so much better and more prepared for the world.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, go take it, go go live it, go do what you need to and come back to me.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because my that's what my teachers did.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only reason I, you know, could go to Washington Ballet, because they were like, Great, go do it.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then come back to us.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I got the best of both worlds in that training, and that's that's kind of what we value too here.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's great.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Something I want to talk about, which we've really hinted at, is dynamics, which I think is a huge part of movement quality.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: And we've talked about vibe and song choice and things like that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like an example that I often have utilized in class, and I don't have the opportunity to teach at a studio on the regular weekly with the same students.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: But when I do go to guest classes, or if I go back to studios every summer and I get to know them and I know that they're at a certain level where they can handle this.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've mentioned this on a previous episode.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: I usually am always brought in to teach some type of jazz dance at any studio that I go to, but if I get to have the kids for multiple days, I'll teach some type of progression.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe I'll say, all right, let's, let's, here's the song.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: You feel the tempo, you feel the vibe.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's go across the floor.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm gonna change the song, and it's gonna be a slower stylized sultry jazz.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: How do you do this exact same movement with a different quality?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and what does that feel like?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: And you can't rush the timing just because it's slower, and you gotta do, you know, and it's like almost essentially like a drill at the same time, where they already know the aura, they're figuring that out, but they're approaching it in a different way.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then the same thing could be applied.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: All right, now I'm putting on Celine Dion, let's do it lyrical.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: How do we move through the shapes instead of hitting them hard in a jazz style and hitting with suspension and connecting it to the next and emphasizing certain things?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Or even if I wanna, as the choreographer or teacher, restate the same choreography with different shading or musicality.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: And how do you interpret that different based on the genre or based on how I said it?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like those types of things are, I think should be happening more in uh training classes because let's be real, and we have across the floor episode coming on the podcast, but like let's be real, not a lot of people are doing progressions across the floor.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And this doesn't have to be an across the floor thing.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: This could be a center combination.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: This could be let's teach four counts of eightography and interpret it different ways.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think that can be a nice introduction to varying your movement style uh across genres as well, and playing with dynamics, obviously.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: So any other dynamic chat you want to bring into the mix.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think that is fantastic that you do all of that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's we kind of do that too, because my kids, like you said, are contemporary based, but they also do a lot of ballet, so they but they love musical theater and we still expose them to all of that.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like they do dances and heels and things and things like that, but they have sometimes a hard time figuring out how to be sharp and tight and engage their body in that way to make it to make it that.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I find kids have a hard time like engaging their backs to make their arms strong.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: So they're trying to hit, but they're not, it's not sharp at all.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: So like ours have a hard time figuring that out.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: So and we and I do the same thing, like I said, across the floor.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I do the exact same thing you do, Courtney, like play different music so they can they can figure it out.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you know, trying to help them understand how to use their body to do the the different dynamics of a song is really important.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the different things they have to do with their body to to execute that type of dynamic properly is important.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: So arms are always the hardest, I think.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Again, then with their lats, the lats, yeah, so hard.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my gosh, it makes me so happy to hear other people talk about lat engagement.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_05: That's like my I harp on it so much.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_05: Me too.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_05: It's like the most important.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_05: It's I think it's more important than using your core and your abdominals to lat.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think dynamic has so much to do, you know.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_05: We've we've kind of talked about this, but like with the relationship with the music, you know?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_05: And man, you know it's so tricky, you know.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_05: Speaking of musicality, this might be like an entirely different subject, but you know, where within that one count are you?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_05: Like, are you on the front half of the count or the back half of the thing?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_05: You know, and like if you can suspend and sit back into the back of the accents, it's gonna make it so much more.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_05: I say the word dynamic and we're trying to define the dynamic, but so much more exciting, you know?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_05: And it's so much like sh if I I would think of dynamic as shading.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_05: You know, similar to like what we do in a vocal piece, you know, like are we are we going to crescendo through this moment or are we day crescendoing?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_05: Are we is it staccato?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_05: Is it legato, you know?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I think when we're I don't tell tell me if I'm skipping ahead or if I'm jumping subjects, but I think when we're teaching these things, you know, there's so many different ways to to, you know, explain dynamic to dancers based on learning style.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_05: You know, like if they're a visual learner, if they, you know, if they uh need to hear the rhythm, if they need to if they need like a structural descriptor of like you're in a deep plie, you know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_05: Know pressing down through the lats with the arms in second, elbows dropped, you know, like or elbows lifted or whatever, you know.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_05: I think all of those things have so much to do with dynamic.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's why it's all important.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you cannot take one piece away.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be like, well, we're not gonna deal with musicality.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, you have to.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't, then you're missing a piece of movement quality.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you just mentioned chocato and legato and all these musical terms.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, ooh, if we don't teach that, they're not gonna be able to execute what I'm asking.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so much involved in movement quality, which is probably why you don't like it's hard.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot that goes into it.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's a pretty tall order to get all of that out in an hour and a half class, if you're lucky.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, totally.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean, I I am constantly amazed at, you know, I I'm similar, Courtney, in that I don't have the opportunity to have the same consistent group of people every week.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_05: And I am I am amazed at how much material, you know, studio owners and dance teachers that are teaching those, you know, those groups how to actually dance, you know what I mean?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_05: Like from the ground up.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's incredible to me that they're able to get through everything, you know, because there's so much.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think something too that um some studios do, but not everyone, and I think could be helpful to approach, I mean, we're you know, we're in October, so a lot of competition dancers are probably already set, but the versatility that you mentioned summer, that also needs to be shining through in the choreography that the dancers are executing throughout their years, progressing through the studio.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I've mentioned this before on the podcast, and I'm just looking back at my jazz teacher growing up, Shannon Torres, who taught me pretty much everything I know in life.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: She had it almost, I mean, I don't know, I'd love to chat with her about it to hear um, you know, what if if this was all planned out.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_02: But like there was a progression of of a variation of jazz techniques and styles that she she gave to me through my training years and and opened me up to different styles of jazz.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: We started more classic, we moved into a little bit more upbeat fun, then we did like a Latin jazz, then we did a more contemporary jazz.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's so many genres within the genre and styles within each genre that I think some studios might just be like, we're doing a jazz dance, and it's always the hard-hitting, high-energy, one style of jazz that we know how to do.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of being opened up to so many different types of music, like we've talked about, that's going to change the quality of your movement.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not giving that to your dancers, they're never going to be exposed to it.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Regardless, I mean, yes, of course, you want to practice it in training, like some of these examples, like we've talked about in class.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I think another great way to introduce it to them is by giving a choreography that is varied and is a different style, even a contemporary.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many contemporary dances do we see that look exactly the same?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: The studio comes back, it's another same exact contemporary dance.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's again, oh, the song is different.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Great.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: But is are they moving different?
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Are they interpreting them the movement in a different way?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: Not really.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of just like the same across the board.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I challenge studios to really explore that a little bit more as they're looking at their, you know, collection of dances that they're presenting at competition.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Are you sitting there thinking, wow, we've really nailed it.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've got we got a this type of, we got a Broadway tap over here, we got a hip-hop over here, we got a commercial jazz funk right here.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's what I think we need.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: And thinking of it from uh, what should juniors be doing?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: What should teens be doing?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: What should seniors be doing as far as the progression as well?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't have like a set like this is what we're gonna do every single year.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: So like parents, I kind of like do it as we go.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I don't want them to have the same thing every year.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm thinking of like my juniors last year who are now teens, but they had like a super commercial type of jazz last year, and now they're doing a musical theater with heels that is gonna be very like different in their movement quality.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that we kind of that's why I don't, you know, I don't decide things until the last minute sometimes, especially because I do like to bring in so many guests, like because they have me all the time, like I'm sick of me.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to bring in guests to do pieces because they don't know what they're gonna get.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a completely different style than something we do in class all the time.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we don't have a set like this is we're gonna do jazz this year, and we don't go through all the genres either because I also think it's important to keep the training at the forefront.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, some so a lot of our kids only have three group dances, and it's more about the training because we do go to a mainly um convention-based list of conventions.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like we don't go to a lot of like competition competitions, they do that for solos and stuff, but not for groups, um, because the convention is the most important part because they're learning how to take class.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the three dances that they do that are required may look different every year.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: One may be a ballet, one may be a contemporary, the next one may be a tap.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, so it kind of looks different from year to year.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I do agree totally with you that it needs to be like the versatility of training so they get exposed to all the different quality of movement style throughout their like young dance career for sure.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_05: That's great.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean that that totally sets them up for success because you know, you could have three different choreographers choreograph Westside stories.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, you know, right and exactly one could be classic Robins, one could be maybe a contemporary take on it, you know.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_05: One could completely deconstruct the idea and it could be avant-garde, you know.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_05: And the more that you are exposed to multiple styles and have experience, you know, playing around, even it it's it can only help, you know.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how many shows have we done that?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's multiple choreographers that have choreographed the show, you know, it's like a variety of like you know, in a in a like a variety style, like casino, theme park, cruise ships type of show.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's not always just the same choreographer and you're doing that same type of movement the whole time.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: It might be this person did this section and this person did this.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: So are you prepared to adapt your style to cater to each section?
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, absolutely.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_05: You have to be able to shape shift.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_05: Totally.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: And something that makes me like something I feel like, I don't know if anybody can relate, especially since we've all had professional careers, but something that I've always thought about and have never uh some occasionally I I feel this or have felt this, but like I never wanted to walk into the professional world saying, what if I can't do that?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: What if I can't deliver to the choreographer?
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I didn't ever want to get on a job and and think, oh my gosh, like, am I gonna be able to do this?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I want to walk into the job saying, I earned this, I got this, I'm gonna be fine, whatever they throw at me, I feel prepared and ready.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's where you have to get to at a point when you try to pursue this is you have to please the choreographer.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: You have to do what they are asking of you.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you probably wouldn't have gotten hired if they didn't think you could.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, like, are you walking into these auditions feeling prepared and having the training prior to to walk in and say, I've got this.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I've been tapping my whole life.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: All these other people are struggling at tap dance.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've I have a one-up on them.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know I can hear the shading, I can hear the musicality, I see what the choreographer's going for.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm able to adapt quickly, I can prove myself in this moment.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's where you have to eventually get to, especially when you're at the senior level or going to college or gr about to graduate and break in, because I've definitely been nervous later in my years as an auditioning dancer where my body's starting to like not cooperate anymore.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, things like that where I get scared.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, am I going to be able to deliver?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can I give what they expect from me in this, in this moment?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't, I don't want dancers walking into the world feeling that.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was more nervous about that in my younger years because you know, that's when I was auditioning for cruise ships and theme parks, where you're like, okay, you gotta do a hip-hop dance and a Latin dance and a this dance and a that dance in the same show.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh God, like I don't do hip hop.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to, but I don't.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that was terrible.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas as I got older, it was like, nope, classic musical theater, I need to play a teenager.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing probably, you know, like a jazz square and a pivot turn.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I'm pushing for.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if you don't know the show, like then you don't know what you're setting up for.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: So Or if it's a variety show, which is a plenty of the work out there for dancers these days.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm grateful that the younger generation is being trained in a more versatile way.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like a lot of kids really truly can go from Desmond Richardson ballet class directly into a hip hop class, you know, with some current artist and feel completely confident.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, good for you.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know that wouldn't be.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is amazing.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: This was such a great chat.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've learned something new.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm absolutely going to like, I know you're teaching later today, Chip.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm heading to Mind Steps class very shortly.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have this entire conversation in my head as I as I walk into a teaching jazz class and working with the professionals.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: And the next time I'm in the studio setting with the training dancers, I'm gonna keep thinking about this amazing discussion on different ways to interpret that movement quality.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: And to all of our listeners out there, I really hope that this helped you understand what we're really looking for because that could be a deal breaker on a lot of your critiques at competition.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: It could be the one thing, like we said, that sets that dancer apart from another when everybody's looking great.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: How did you interpret that, that choreography?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: How did you move through that space properly to match the style, the vibe, the point of view, all those things come into play and are a part of your score and ex and it's primarily your execution score.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: So keep that in mind as you are rehearsing your dances throughout the season.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Shout out to our spectacular guests, Summer and Chip, for joining us.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: This is so great to have you on the podcast finally.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for sharing all of your guidance and knowledge from your years of experience as educators.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're so grateful for you both.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh how we always have our guests lead us out on making the impact is with one final thought that you can share with the world when it comes to style, movement, quality.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: You can speak to whoever you'd like, the dancers, other choreographers, other studios, professionals, whoever you'd like.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: Ready, sit, go.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_05: I just want to encourage everyone out there to never be afraid to make a mistake and mess up.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_05: That's that's how we learn.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_05: And not only do we learn how to fix it for next time, but we learn about ourselves and we learn, you know, what works for us and what doesn't.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_05: So the more you that you can bring into a room, the more successful you're gonna be.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_05: You know, as storytellers, I think it's important that we honor authenticity and we honor, you know, our own artistic voice.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_05: And the only way to find that is by messing up a little bit.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what I was gonna say, Sue.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think finding the you is super important and finding your why is super important and start doing that from day one.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of dancers that I know and I see and I teach every day are super worried about pleasing whoever they're trying to teach, whoever they're trying to take from, because they want that piece of paper at convention so bad that doesn't mean anything in the real world.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so like use that experience and use that training and use that time to figure out who you are and don't be super focused on the score or if you get the piece of paper or not.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Think about the broader goal and the broader thing that you want to achieve later down the road and find your why throughout trying to figure out who you are and doing that.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: We hope you enjoyed our latest throwback episode from season five: Mastering Movement Quality and Dance.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow our guests on Instagram.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can find Chip at Chipstergram and Summer at Summer Runner District or follow her studio at Runner Dance.
• 56:04
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• 56:11
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• 56:17
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• 56:25
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• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Next up on Making the Impact, look forward to a special QA with Courtney.