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Port of the future: Innovation in Long Beach (Live from IANA EXPO) · The Intermodal Logistics Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks very much for joining us on this edition of the Intermodal Logistics Podcast live from IANA's Intermodal Expo 2026 in Long Beach.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm joined by my co-host, President of Intech Logistics, Shelly Austin.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Shelly.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Kevin.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we are joined by, you know, I just uh we just had Ann Renke on, who is sort of the host of the the conference in a way, but but in a broader sense, uh Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: Noel Hasagaba, the CEO of the Port of Long Beach, in a way you're sort of the host as well, right?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's an honor I'm happy to carry and excited to be with you, Kevin and Shelly.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Next.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we appreciate it.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, we had you on a couple of years ago, and uh since then, uh you are you now became CEO of the Port of Long Beach.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So so let's start there.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how has that role uh changed your daily responsibilities and how you approach things uh with the port?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a great question, Kevin.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, been in this role since January 1st, but I feel like I've been preparing uh for this role for quite some time.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've been with the port about 16 years and most recently served as chief operating officer.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I had line responsibility for virtually every function of the organization.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: So stepping into this role was rather seamless, but I will tell you that there are some significant differences.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I um I don't know if you guys are football fans, but I liken it to ascending from an assistant head coach or a coordinator to a head coach.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because a head coach uh makes the call.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the buck stops with the head coach.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: But also I would say that um for our organization, the Portal Long Beach has been around for 115 years, and we were due for a reset, and it was a valuable opportunity to look at our mission, our vision, our strategic priorities, and look for ways to put organization on a new trajectory.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's precisely what I've been doing the last nine months.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we clarified our vision, so we have a new vision.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's called 2050, and it's very simple.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna double our container volumes to 20 million TEUs by 2050 and build the port of the future in the process.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: But we're also simplifying our mission, right?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: We mean a lot of different things to a lot of different stakeholders and partners.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought it was important for us to focus on our core mission and this new vision that we just launched.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And lastly, it's it's our why, it's amplifier impact.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: And these are things that the CEO does.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you're not in the weeds.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not in the weeds as much as I used to be, although I am very hands-on by design, and I have an incredible team uh that supports me.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's been it's it's been quite an experience uh just in the last nine months.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: We've done a lot of things that uh we've never done before or any port authority has ever done.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been uh just very um satisfying to see the entire team come together, the support of our board, our our leadership across the city, across the the industry.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, port of the future, I love that.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so we got port of the future, new era for intermodal, all these exciting things, AI, technology.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me, what is the port of the future?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: What is all involved in that?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm, you know, I think of these movies and and where everything is just automated and moving around.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And tell me, tell me kind of the vision of what is a port of the future.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a there's a quote that I've been using quite a bit, and it's attributed to President Abraham Lincoln and Peter Drucker, uh, both extraordinarily intelligent gentlemen.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it goes something like this the best way to predict the future is to create it.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so when people ask me what is the port of the future going to look like, I say, well, let's create it together, right?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you this it's got to be faster, more resilient, it's got to be safer, it's got to be more sustainable, cleaner.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: And when you look at all the challenges that are endemic in our industry, it's got to be a port that is resilient enough to uh mitigate and absorb a lot of these shocks.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is why I thought it was important to have a new vision, something to give all of our industry stakeholders to look forward to beyond the near-term disruptions, whether it's tariff disruptions, trade disruptions, uh geopolitical instability.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I can tell you this the CEOs that I've met with from some of the global shipping lines, they love the new vision.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: They love the growth mindset.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: And what they keep telling me is we want to grow with you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: We want to grow with you.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: But going back to your point, uh, Shelly, about the port of the future, if you think about it, our ports are not just intersections for ships, trucks, and trains.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: We truly sit at the intersection of trade, geopolitics, technology, and climate.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And these are all the forces that are unfolding and reshaping the world as we know it.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: You just mentioned a few of them, AI, technology.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so building the port of the future is another way of saying we're future-proofing our port.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And by future-proofing our port, we're we are facilitating the transition of intermodal and the supply chain of the future.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing more exciting for me to be a part of that to help facilitate that transition.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I think is exciting is um Noelle, you and I were so blessed to be able to serve on the board of IANA together.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one of the things that people don't always understand about intermodal are all the parts and pieces and how we collaborate and work together.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And a big part of that is the marine and is the ports.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I what I love is you bring in this port of the future, it's going to incentivize and enable the other parts of intermodal to want to follow in the footsteps of that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't just start, it's not just there.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna, it's gonna kind of creep into the rest of the intermodal space.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, wouldn't you think?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Shelly, that very kind of you to say it was a complete honor for me to serve with you on the board when we did, and thank you for your continued leadership on the IN board.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: We need leaders like you in our industry for sure.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: When you think about the future and you think about the trends, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because we are a system of systems and we we are comprised of different industries and sectors, different modes, you you almost need someone to start things.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in a way, that's what we're doing in Long Beach.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Look, we've been a leader, a global leader in environmental sustainability for over 20 years.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: We were the original Green Port.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: You look at the roster of port authorities around the globe, there are over a hundred now.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And they're trying to replicate what we've been able to do together with our partners.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: As it relates to Rain or Model, I'll tell you this.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: What excites me and why I'm so passionate about IANA is that as we plan to double our container throughput, we're not gonna do that by doubling our real estate.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: It would take too long, it would be too expensive.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we've got to densify, we've got to electrify, we've got to modernize.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what we also need to do?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: We need more intermodal.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: We need more IPI.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so as part of our plan, we are making a strategic decision to shift more of our container moves from local truck delivery to IPI rail, rail moves.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that doesn't mean, and and I I say this very sincerely to our dredge providers, our motor carriers, it doesn't mean that we're gonna leave them behind.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because as the pie grows, we're always gonna need our motor carriers.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: They are vital, they are important.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: But as we shift to more intermodal, as we shift to more rail moves, then you can begin to see how that uh not just supports a port like us, but it supports an entire industry.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're already the Port of Long Beach, I mean, all the containers that cross our docks reach all 435 congressional districts.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: And by making this modal shift, we'll be able to increase our on-dock utilization uh from where it is right now, about 28%.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Our goal is to get to 35%, 40%, even maybe even higher.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I believe the future looks like.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and another piece that's uh that's actually come up in a couple of conversations uh that I've had over the course of the day is uh is visibility.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that people who are considering intermodal or maybe used it in the past are a little worried about.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and you mentioned, uh and I'll plug it now before we get too far into it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the port won the intermodal innovation award this year from the inaugural one, I believe, from IANA.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and this morning you talked about a little bit the visibility is a focus of this plan as well.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, uh first of all, honored and grateful for the opportunity to accept the award, the inaugural innovation award on behalf of the Port of Lawmage, and thank you again to Ayanna for that honor.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, innovation has been a hallmark of our success.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: When you look back at our history, uh, there are inflection points.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we were for most of our history in Navy town.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: We were a Navy base.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't grow up, quote unquote, until the 1990s when the Navy decided to close down its base.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden the doors open to us becoming more of an industrial commercial port.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that really put us on the map.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look back at the 1990s, the 2000s, the 2010s, every decade has introduced a new uh layer of innovation.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so to accept the award, to be um honored with the award is very meaningful to all of us and to my predecessors, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I get to build on the work that they already uh did and and and and the foundation they already laid.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: But going forward, innovation is absolutely key, Kevin.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh again, we're not gonna double our container volumes or throughput by doubling real estate.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we need to think about what we do, how we do it, think about it with innovation.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly, technology will play a key role.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned visibility.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Just in the last five years, we've launched a number of digital initiatives, digital tools.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: The latest is Cargo Nav, short for cargo navigator.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a tool that all of our supply chain partners can use today so that they can access uh data and container uh event data so that they can optimize their operations.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Whether you're a railroad, a motor carrier, a chassis leasing company, a marine terminal operator, cargo nav enables you to track and trace.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: It gives you the data you need so that you can optimize your own supply chains.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And in the future, our vision is that you will be able to cargo nav for container information the way that you and I Google for just about any type of information.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's just one example of innovation.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exciting because what we're all trying to have that crystal ball, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're all trying to have that crystal ball to know what's next.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to prepare for?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do we need to build for?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And to be able to have that type of data and that information gives it gets us that next step closer.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: It really does.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: It really does.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, data, if you think about it, Shelly, the the the better we get at sharing data and the more efficient we become at transferring information across uh the supply chain, we facilitate the movement of Carter, and that's what it comes down to.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you you say sharing, that's what I love, right?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, you know, Noelle, you've been around that.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's this is why we love the intermodal space, is we are so collaborative and we are in that mode of sharing, and that's what it's gonna take for us to continue not shifting anymore, but we are growing all of this, and we're gonna continue to grow it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's right and it all starts from there.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's right, that's right.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: As as we heard this morning in the opening session, right, intermodal is having a moment.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: The Portal Long Beach, we're doing our part to turn that moment into momentum.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: We want to drive more intermodal, we want to see the intermodal sector, the intermodal industry continue to flourish.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if we have anything to do with that, uh, it'll happen.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, a couple of these improvements that that you talked about, uh, the on-dock rail, for instance, uh, speed is a part of this too.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't want the containers to get to the port and then sit longer than they need to.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so how important is that in terms of what you're envisioning and taking maybe the burden a little bit off of uh off the dray side as well?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Kevin, it's it's it's very important.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like to say that speed of market is a key to our success and rail connectivity is a key to our future.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And let me explain why.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: When you look at the state of play in the global supply chain, just to give you some some numbers, in 2019, China alone accounted for 70% of our total volumes, imports and exports.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: 70%.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Today, that's down to closer to 55%.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yet last year, we set an all-time record.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we're seeing more volumes, less from China.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we're seeing more activity with other other countries.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: Most of that has been picked up by uh Southeast Asia.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now, on a map, it doesn't seem like a big difference, but if you're a vessel, if you're an ocean carrier, the transit time from Southeast Asia to Long Beach versus China adds two to three days on the water.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: So already our supply chain is less competitive.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So part of building the port of the future is to regain some of that commercial advantage.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is why Pure B, which is a centerpiece of our$3.3 billion CapEx program, is so important.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Pure B is gonna help us get what today on average takes four days to get a container off of the ship onto a train to the 30 rail hubs across the nation, down to 24 hours.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna we're gonna eliminate three days worth of dwell just with one project.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's exciting.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's exciting.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's exciting.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's why again again, that's why velocity is so important to our success.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you talked about uh the record setting last year.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: How how is this year going and what are you projecting uh as the the year finishes up and into next year in terms of volume?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it it's it's been remarkable, right?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So last year we ended the year 9.9 million TEUs.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the story there was pretty much all the front loading, right?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: The gyrations in trade policy and uh tariffs that were announced and then paused and then re-announced and paused.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: That catapulted us to a record year.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And we're seeing the same this year, uh Kevin.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the uncertainty lingers.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when the Supreme Court ruled on the AIPA tariffs, a lot of folks thought that that was gonna put an end to the uncertainty.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It really hasn't gone away.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you add the instability created by the uh the conflict in the Middle East and the shock to the energy sector, that uncertainty continues.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's a there's gonna be a high-stakes meeting later this month between President Trump, President Shi.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think we're all gonna be waiting with great anticipation to see what comes out of that those conversations.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, all that uncertainty is uh catapulting us to what uh will we think could be another record year.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: So from January through August, we're at about 6.7 million TUs.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're 1.3% ahead of where we were last year.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that gives you a pretty good indication.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we think that the balance of the year, based on what we're hearing from the shippers and from the ocean carriers, is that we're gonna continue to see some activity at least through October, maybe November.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So we're bracing ourselves for another busy year.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: But but we've been we've been resilient.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's the good news, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: We've been busier than ever, but we've been resilient and we've been a safe harbor in the sea of trade and uh geopolitical instability.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're all excited for those higher volumes, so let's bring it on.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:58
  unknown: Yes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and I mean you've you've had the situation a few years back where the the volume was was difficult for for ports, not not Long Beach in particular, but just ports in general to handle.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're not hearing those stories anymore about uh the issues of ships kind of having to wait, uh wait their turn to get it and get into the port.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're not seeing that at all.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, we're we're we're we're handling more volume today than we ever have with no backlogs, congestion delay, certainly not to the degree that we saw in 2021.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you remember at that time, there were 109 ships at anchor.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: 109.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I remember this.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember folks asking me, well, what's normal?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I said, zero.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: We were 109 ships above normal.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Talk about a crisis, right?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, we muscled through, we we learned a lot of things along the way, we developed a resilience muscle that we're now flexing.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, again, a testament to our our industry where we support each other.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I I think in general, uh, a few different things that you've touched on here.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: It talks about the the resilience of the industry, the fact that the the volume uh where you're getting the volume from has shifted, but it's still there.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's right.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Supply teams get like a link disrupted and then they connect it another way.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And again, the port of the future has to be flexible, nimble enough to be able to pivot.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And building in resilience into that is going to be critically important.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we demonstrated that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when you when you look at intermodal, we're having a moment in large part because we've demonstrated that we can handle the this influx.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can do it.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we can we can do it.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say for the innovation and everything you're talking about, Noelle, that's exciting here too at Expo this year, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember another time at Expo and on the floor where you can see so many innovative type, exciting things of the future, right?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that I love the fact that we can all come and physically see those things and see what the future holds.
• 18:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's that's the beauty of IANA, right?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: You you get to see the future before it actually, you know, happens outside these walls.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: But you're right, Shelly.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the beauty of coming together as we do as a community, as an industry.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh compare notes.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh share what we're doing because uh we're gonna build the the the intermodal network and the port of the future together.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no well, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Really appreciate it.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: A pleasure.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me back.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for joining us on this edition of the Intermodal Logistics Podcast.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can find us wherever you get your podcasts.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Please do drop us a comment, rate in review, and subscribe, a follow.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: We are happy to have you.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can also email us at podcast at intechlogistics.com or find more about in tech logistics the company at www.intechlogistics.com.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or Nompasgamba.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Shelly Austin, I'm Kevin Baxter.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for joining us, and we'll be back soon with another episode.