Latest / Gladden Longevity Podcast / Spermidine+: Maximizing Your Human Potential and Age Reversal - Episode 256

Transcript

Spermidine+: Maximizing Your Human Potential and Age Reversal - Episode 256 · Gladden Longevity Podcast

• 0:02
  Welcome everybody to the Glad Long GeoGPodcast.
• 0:04
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:05
  Jeffrey Gladden, and I'm here with, um, my friend and colleague, Steve Ryder, uh, riding shotgun over there on his fancy microphone.
• 0:13
  Steven, how are you?
• 0:15
  I'm doing good.
• 0:16
  The weather's been beautiful here in Colorado and my plan has just changed this weekend.
• 0:21
  I was gonna be flying back to Wisconsin to go surprise my best friend for his 50th birthday, but Frontier, I wasn't able to find any good deals on flights despite being a Go
• 0:30
  Wild Pass member.
• 0:31
  So I'm looking at things.
• 0:32
  Okay, what am I wanna do here in Colorado this weekend?
• 0:35
  Yeah, nice.
• 0:36
  Well, I can tell you the surface firing over here.
• 0:39
  So it's really been nice the last few days.
• 0:41
  I went out this morning, wrote a few and then snuck out in between podcasts, actually.
• 0:47
  Well, actually, before we started the podcast, I snuck out and wrote another really nice wave.
• 0:52
  So.
• 0:55
  Yeah, it's so nice to actually break up your day, right?
• 0:58
  Like, you know, this idea of like you should stand up every 20 minutes or whatever.
• 1:02
  It's nice to get outside, get your bare feet on the ground, you know, fuel the water for and literally took like 30 minutes, you know, to put on a suit.
• 1:09
  Yeah.
• 1:09
  Run out there.
• 1:10
  It's right in front of me.
• 1:11
  Right.
• 1:11
  So you just dive in, swim out, you know, catch a wave, catch a couple or whatever.
• 1:16
  Come back in literally 30 minutes.
• 1:18
  And it's like, you feel like you just had a vacation.
• 1:20
  It's awesome.
• 1:20
  I could imagine how refreshing that would be in the middle of a day.
• 1:24
  Yeah, yeah, I know it's pretty awesome.
• 1:26
  So speaking of refreshing, we have a guest with us today who's very refreshing.
• 1:32
  He's got some headphones on that are some of the most refreshing headphones I think I've ever seen.
• 1:37
  So with that, Don, welcome to the welcome to the Platinum Longevity Podcast.
• 1:41
  I'm excited to be here.
• 1:43
  My old school beats headphones.
• 1:44
  We had to break out for the podcast.
• 1:49
  These were the thing back in the day, but that was back in the day.
• 1:53
  Mm hmm.
• 1:53
  Yeah.
• 1:54
  Well, I feel like I'm back in the day right with you now.
• 1:56
  So it's good.
• 1:57
  Yeah.
• 1:58
  It's like old homework week.
• 2:01
  So Don is an interesting character.
• 2:04
  Don, why don't you why don't you share with the audience a little bit about your background, how you got interested in autophagy and spermadine and, you know, what brought
• 2:15
  you to this place in your life?
• 2:17
  it was an interesting journey.
• 2:19
  My training is as an exercise physiologist.
• 2:23
  I did my work at Ohio State back in the early 80s and have been a professor at some level, associate or adjunct for about the last 20s, for 27 of the last years.
• 2:37
  But I've always kept a foot in either industry, like high performance technology, wearable technology.
• 2:44
  I've always liked that.
• 2:46
  or I've worked with elite humans, athletes, something like that.
• 2:52
  But 2015 through 18, I was a sports scientist at Ohio State.
• 2:59
  We were working with the wrestling program, measured three and a half million data points on a wrestling team in one season.
• 3:05
  We did a bunch of work with heart rate variability work, got to where I could predict who would be an All-American the first day of the tournament of Nationals.
• 3:15
  based on HRV status.
• 3:17
  Well, and.
• 3:19
  So the person with the highest HRRB was gonna win?
• 3:22
  Is that the idea?
• 3:23
  Well, we wound up having a linear relationship, but at the time I had a team that included an Olympic gold medalist and a world champion and we had a roster of very talented people
• 3:36
  and it was linear.
• 3:37
  My Olympic gold medalist had the highest nighttime resting HRV and if I sent a guy to nationals with an HRV of less than 75 milliseconds, they wouldn't make it All-American.
• 3:50
  If I sent them with 75 or above, they would make All American.
• 3:53
  That's really interesting.
• 3:55
  You know, I've had this working theory, you know, you have all these different sports out there, right, like wrestling or MMA or lots of these different sports.
• 4:03
  And people think it's a power sport, but actually I think it's a cardio sport.
• 4:07
  It's like the person with the best cardio wins that thing.
• 4:11
  Quite honestly.
• 4:11
  I mean, you've got to have the best requisite power and you know, training or whatever, but beyond that, man, it's a cardio deal.
• 4:17
  because cardio, remember, all energy is eventually aerobic.
• 4:22
  Okay, so whether, if you're an, it's all eventually aerobic.
• 4:25
  And cardiovascular fitness, ironically, Dr.
• 4:29
  Gladden, we ran testing on this.
• 4:30
  And one of the years we had, I think I had 39 guys on the team.
• 4:35
  I had nine of them were all American or better.
• 4:37
  And that was anywhere from six in the country up to an Olympic gold medalist.
• 4:42
  Then I had 11 or 12 guys that had
• 4:46
  worn the singlet for us, they had wrestled for us, but they had never made All American for one reason or another.
• 4:51
  And then I had a group of guys in the same room that had never wrestled varsity.
• 4:56
  Okay, but these guys all practice together, they all train together, they all compete together.
• 5:01
  So we went back and looked at cardiovascular strength.
• 5:04
  We looked at everything.
• 5:05
  And then the thing that was the best predictor of someone's ability to move through those groups was cardiovascular fitness.
• 5:16
  And so everyone sits back and says, so what do you mean?
• 5:20
  I thought this was an anaerobic sport.
• 5:22
  And I said, well, you may be using a lot of anaerobic energies, but you always have to remember there's recovery and recovery is critical and cardiovascular recovery.
• 5:32
  And so this was one of the big things.
• 5:35
  And then we, again, the ability to predict success, that's where the HRV came into play, but.
• 5:41
  So let me ask you this, did you start to train?
• 5:44
  I mean, that's a really powerful piece of information.
• 5:46
  So did you actually start to train your wrestlers differently?
• 5:49
  Do you start to train them for HRV?
• 5:52
  Well, we started, we did two big things.
• 5:54
  Number one, one of the things that we did was wrestlers have a tendency to run a lot.
• 6:03
  And I am not a huge fan of running for conditioning.
• 6:08
  I think every time your foot hits the ground, you pay a price in the fascia, in the recovery.
• 6:14
  So we took, we put in a line of bikes.
• 6:18
  that where I could wattage control the guy.
• 6:21
  So every guy, I knew everyone's threshold, cardio anaerobic threshold.
• 6:25
  So I would hand them a USB key that they would plug into the bike.
• 6:29
  So every athlete was training at their own level.
• 6:33
  And so we would measure wattage and heart rate.
• 6:35
  And as they get more fit, heart rate would drop when we raise their wattage.
• 6:39
  Heart rate would drop, we'd raise their wattage.
• 6:41
  So where did you train them relative to their anaerobic threshold?
• 6:44
  We would try and spend at least night so in the extra work the work that they weren't that they were doing when they weren't wrestling 90% of that work took place slightly below
• 6:54
  threshold
• 6:55
  Okay, slightly beholed threshold.
• 6:57
  So, you know, this is really interesting because this has been my experience as well.
• 7:04
  Like I really have believed in VO2 for a long time.
• 7:07
  We've measured VO2 and anaerobic threshold for 15 years.
• 7:11
  Even before, even when I was doing cardiology, I started doing this.
• 7:14
  I started doing it for cardiac rehab patients to actually get a feel for where are they.
• 7:18
  And if you want to talk about some beat up individuals, man, they are really, they're really struggling.
• 7:23
  I'll tell you what was stunning.
• 7:25
  was a heart transplant, right?
• 7:27
  Oh my gosh, they have a heart.
• 7:30
  It pumps, but that's it.
• 7:32
  There is no, there's no, there's no, there's no innervation, right?
• 7:36
  There is no innervation.
• 7:38
  And so it's, you've got a heart.
• 7:41
  It will pump, but that is it.
• 7:43
  Like if you want to try to climb stairs, you're, you know, you're, you're stopping every four stairs, right?
• 7:48
  Because you just got one year.
• 7:51
  Um,
• 7:51
  But anyway, it was interesting.
• 7:52
  So we've been really interested in this and my, you know, everybody's talking about zone two training, the way to build VO two max is zone two training.
• 8:01
  And there's, there is a place for zone two training, but you don't build.
• 8:05
  I don't build my own VO two max just doing zone two, zone two training.
• 8:09
  I build it by being right there.
• 8:12
  Just at or below the anaerobic threshold for extended periods of time.
• 8:16
  That's where, that's where I get my biggest gains.
• 8:19
  I listen, I wouldn't debate that at all.
• 8:21
  And I think we have to be careful because terminology is important.
• 8:28
  I am not a huge proponent of measuring VO2 max.
• 8:34
  Back in the day that, you know, listen, that's what we started with.
• 8:37
  I spent a lot of time in labs.
• 8:38
  We spent a lot of time doing that.
• 8:40
  And you'd measure max and we'd always estimate down for training levels, you know, and
• 8:46
  You know, I actually spent several years working for Polar, the heart rate monitor company.
• 8:52
  And this was my introduction to HRV.
• 8:54
  So Polar had a lot of products that had HRV-based estimates.
• 9:01
  One was called Own Zone, Own Index, Own Recovery, which were all based on HRV.
• 9:07
  And this is 30 years ago.
• 9:10
  So what we have is, and I'm looking at this, I'm saying, wait a minute, why do I need Max to come back down?
• 9:16
  I really want to know where the onset of cardiovascular benefit begins.
• 9:22
  And, and, and listen, I think it's important.
• 9:26
  The reason I think zone two is important to be in our language is I think so many people think they have to finish up their workouts, laying in a puddle of sweat, uh, you know,
• 9:38
  and, and you don't need to do that.
• 9:39
  You can have compassion with yourself.
• 9:42
  You can do zone two training.
• 9:44
  There's a, there's a.
• 9:45
  gigantic benefit that comes from it.
• 9:47
  There is additional benefit that comes from zone three.
• 9:51
  There's very little benefit that comes from going to zone four.
• 9:55
  And there's some benefit in zone five.
• 9:57
  So if you can get to where you're shifting between five and three and using a lot of zone two to build that base, then you can get your peak up.
• 10:07
  So.
• 10:07
  that's what I've that's exactly my experience.
• 10:10
  Right.
• 10:10
  It's zone three and zone five.
• 10:12
  And then I do some zone two.
• 10:14
  But it's you know, to me, it's the sort of more protracted slower pieces that are kind of the cake.
• 10:22
  And then the icing in between the layers and on the top of the cake is, you know, pushing harder.
• 10:28
  And I find a lot of people just don't push hard enough.
• 10:31
  Like they kind of have convinced themselves if I do zone two, I'm going to be OK.
• 10:35
  But we measure VO2 for everybody.
• 10:37
  When people do that, they do not build VO2.
• 10:39
  And I'll tell you why VO2 is important.
• 10:42
  It's not so important for what you were, the question you were asking, but when you look at it through the lens of longevity, being able to pump more blood per minute, which is
• 10:50
  really, VO2 is a surrogate marker for that, right?
• 10:52
  How much blood can your heart pump per minute?
• 10:55
  That is so correlated to...
• 10:58
  Longevity to decrease risk for heart disease cancer dementia anything you don't want to have having a high vo2 really matters So we do stress vo2 in that context.
• 11:07
  So
• 11:07
  Yeah, and I, listen, I think that's fine.
• 11:09
  And I don't want to, I don't want to minimize that at all.
• 11:12
  I think, I think the challenge is I'm used to, I'm used to measuring VO2 and elite groups of athletes, which what we know is that once you move into, you don't even have to be
• 11:22
  elite.
• 11:23
  Once you move up into a higher level of athletes, VO2 is largely stable.
• 11:28
  It doesn't move, it doesn't move a lot, but yeah, again.
• 11:34
  And when you draw, when you go to a patient population, I absolutely believe that.
• 11:38
  Yeah.
• 11:39
  So, you know, I guess it's the population that flips a little bit, but I think it's important for the consumer out there, the regular consumer to know that, you know what?
• 11:49
  Do something.
• 11:51
  Okay.
• 11:51
  Something's better than nothing.
• 11:53
  Most people do nothing.
• 11:55
  Do something.
• 11:57
  If you're doing something in zone two and zone three, good job.
• 12:00
  Keep it up.
• 12:01
  Good job.
• 12:02
  Okay.
• 12:02
  But once you get that built and you really want to sharpen the pencil, then you can start to play with your 3s and 5s.
• 12:11
  But if you're doing nothing, don't go to 5, because you'll wind up in 4 and it's a mess.
• 12:17
  Yeah.
• 12:18
  mean, yeah, yeah.
• 12:20
  It always has to be graduated.
• 12:22
  It always has to be regressed to the starting place for any individual.
• 12:26
  Right.
• 12:26
  But let's just define a couple of terms because we've thrown around VO2 and anaerobic threshold and a couple of other things.
• 12:32
  So an HRV, right?
• 12:33
  So why don't we define those for people?
• 12:35
  So VO2 we talked about is really a surrogate marker for how much blood your heart's able to pump each minute.
• 12:41
  Anaerobic threshold is basically the heart rate at which and the workload at which you have to transition from My understanding correct me if I'm wrong is purely anaerobic or
• 12:52
  purely a aerobic function to where you have to start to contribute Anaerobic metabolism to support your ATP production that you kind of crossed over into that
• 13:01
  Yeah, I would clarify, and again, this is a highly technical kind of a thing.
• 13:06
  Sorry about this, but.
• 13:09
  So I would define anaerobic threshold is the point at which you begin to accumulate the byproduct of anaerobic metabolism, okay?
• 13:19
  So you have anaerobic and aerobic metabolism at rest.
• 13:22
  It's always there.
• 13:23
  The issue is that when it's low, that byproduct can be metabolized and it never accumulates.
• 13:29
  When you go above threshold, you begin to accumulate a hydrogen ion, lactate, and so forth.
• 13:36
  And more importantly, when you go above it, the big thing is it's about cortisol, is that when you spend too much time up in that zone four area, because when you're in zone five,
• 13:48
  when you go up into zone five and you're really dragging the ATP PC system in to get your energy from,
• 13:56
  If you're doing true max work, you can't do it long enough that you're going to get a cortisol response.
• 14:01
  That's right.
• 14:02
  You may, you may, depending on how in shape you are, you may get anywhere from 15 seconds to three or four minutes, but that's about, if you're doing it right.
• 14:10
  That's right.
• 14:11
  Yeah.
• 14:11
  But most people will go into that zone four and languish there.
• 14:18
  And the problem is you start to lay in all that.
• 14:20
  Now listen, there's a benefit that comes from that.
• 14:23
  There's a benefit in dopamine.
• 14:25
  The brain says, hey, you're obviously in a fight or flight mode.
• 14:31
  I'm gonna try and keep you alive.
• 14:32
  So I'm gonna dump a bunch of dopamine in there just to keep you alive.
• 14:36
  Okay, well the problem is that cortisol that comes with it, it's gotta be dealt with.
• 14:42
  And when you're in zone, the beauty of zone three, if you stay slightly below that threshold, nice to tell my guys, I'd rather have you five beats below than one beat above.
• 14:52
  That's how we would treat that.
• 14:55
  But when they're in that zone three, there's no limit.
• 15:00
  I get no cortisol from that.
• 15:01
  I get no limit.
• 15:02
  My guys can spend as much time as they're, so if they're cutting weight or doing things like that, that's the beauty of zone two and zone three is there's no limit to how much
• 15:11
  you can do it.
• 15:12
  No, I agree.
• 15:12
  I feel like you could go all day in zone three, right?
• 15:15
  When you're when you're in shape, right?
• 15:16
  When you're not, it's still a bit of a push.
• 15:18
  But when you're in shape, you can it feels like zone three.
• 15:21
  You could just do it all day.
• 15:23
  Personally, though, I like the challenge of pushing into something where I know it's going to be hard.
• 15:28
  It's going to be hard.
• 15:29
  I mountain bike.
• 15:30
  Right.
• 15:30
  And so, you know, it's going to be hard to climb this hill.
• 15:33
  But I want to do that.
• 15:34
  I want to feel myself be I want to see how.
• 15:37
  much breath I still have left when I get to the top.
• 15:40
  And I can gauge myself as to how in shape I am.
• 15:42
  If I'm totally gassed, it's like, okay, I've got work to do.
• 15:46
  But when I go back to the same hill and I ride it and I get to the top and it's like two deep breaths and I'm good, it's like, okay, we're really making progress, right?
• 15:54
  So I love that.
• 15:56
  that point where you hack the lung up, right?
• 15:58
  You're always trying to figure out what that max is.
• 16:01
  And so listen, since wrestling, I've had eight knee surgeries, five of which from wrestling, three from things afterwards.
• 16:10
  So I don't run anymore, which is part of my adherence to running.
• 16:16
  But I cycle a lot and you're right.
• 16:19
  I mean, there's those climbs when you're just like, okay, let's go see what I've got today.
• 16:23
  Right, exactly.
• 16:25
  Yeah, well.
• 16:25
  I've also, I used to live in a place where I had a 20 mile rails to trails right in front of my house.
• 16:31
  And I lived on the low end of it.
• 16:33
  So I could go out and start my ride and climb all the way up and then turn around.
• 16:38
  It was a nice gradual.
• 16:40
  So when you do that, you've got a nice little time thing that you don't have to go out and bury yourself on a climb.
• 16:45
  That's right.
• 16:45
  I do that on the elliptical.
• 16:47
  I got in the elliptical and I get on a rails to trails thing in Dallas, the Katie trail.
• 16:51
  And it's great.
• 16:51
  It's pretty, you know, you can push it going out and I get the whole thing.
• 16:55
  You can do the same thing.
• 16:56
  Hiking.
• 16:56
  You can do the same thing.
• 16:57
  Cross country skiing.
• 16:58
  You can do the same thing.
• 16:59
  Almost any swimming.
• 17:01
  You can do it a hundred different ways.
• 17:02
  Um, but I just liked, I liked the challenge of looking at that hill.
• 17:07
  It's like, okay, what am I going to be like when I get to the top of that?
• 17:10
  And it's like, damn.
• 17:11
  I'm pretty good today.
• 17:12
  I love that feeling.
• 17:13
  It's like good.
• 17:15
  good.
• 17:15
  So to finish the story was at Ohio State, we did that work.
• 17:19
  I was getting calls from people that were working in the pros, pro sports performance guys.
• 17:26
  And they were asking me about what I knew about cannabis and HRV.
• 17:31
  And I said, I don't know anything about it, because my guys are NCAA athletes.
• 17:37
  And and
• 17:38
  Ironically, Dr.
• 17:39
  Gladden, prior to that, a friend of mine, I worked with a guy out in a wearables company out in Albuquerque and he had left and gone up into cannabis in Oregon.
• 17:49
  And he was sending me back these questions and he says, what do you know about this?
• 17:53
  And I'm like, I don't know anything about it.
• 17:54
  So I start to research this and I'm like, ah, there's something interesting here.
• 17:59
  And he calls me one day and he says, do you wanna work in cannabis?
• 18:04
  And I said, yes, I do.
• 18:05
  I want to understand this.
• 18:06
  So I wind up moving to Florida and working as the director of applied science for a cannabis brand down there in the state of Florida.
• 18:13
  And when you pierce the veil of cannabis, there is an amazing amount of information you get.
• 18:24
  The research is good.
• 18:26
  The data is good.
• 18:27
  The science is good.
• 18:28
  And you know, I've taught the exercise sciences for 27 years.
• 18:33
  And I had never heard the term endocannabinoid system, okay?
• 18:39
  Which should be chapter two of exercise 101.
• 18:44
  So I start to understand that.
• 18:46
  So I'm working in cannabis trying to understand, and I spend no time on the THC side.
• 18:52
  I spend all my time on these other sides.
• 18:55
  So I worked in there and then I get a call one day from a guy that I worked with in Florida.
• 18:59
  He says, so what do you know about autophagy?
• 19:02
  And I said, well, I've got a passing understanding of them.
• 19:04
  before you go to autophagy, which is a good topic, let's talk about the cannabis a little bit further, because I'm really curious, what did you end up finding out about, let's get
• 19:14
  CBD and HRV?
• 19:16
  Was there a direct correlation that you found?
• 19:19
  we've actually and we actually developed a product that was called HRV Plus, which is a cannabis and fish oil.
• 19:27
  So I'm not a huge CBD fan.
• 19:30
  I'm a huge CBD fan.
• 19:34
  Okay.
• 19:35
  And there's another.
• 19:38
  So the plant produces cannabidolytic acid.
• 19:43
  So CBD is cannabidiol.
• 19:46
  Cannabidolytic acid is what the plant produces.
• 19:50
  Now, it's largely been a throwaway product in the cannabis industry because the cannabis industry completely warps towards THC.
• 20:00
  But we know that there's some value there.
• 20:02
  And I'll tell you how it happened.
• 20:03
  I'm sitting at a Florida Pain Management Conference down at the Breakers in Palm Beach.
• 20:10
  And this Jamaican medical assistant comes up and she says, you know,
• 20:15
  We used to grow this in our backyard.
• 20:17
  And she said, my father would soak it in our finest rum.
• 20:22
  And I'm like, and I'm listening to this.
• 20:24
  And I'm like, it's not just rum, the finest rum.
• 20:27
  And she said, when I would have menstrual cramps, they would give me a shot in my orange juice and they'd go away.
• 20:33
  And my father would rub it on his knees at night for the pain.
• 20:38
  And I'm listening to this.
• 20:39
  And so the next day I'm in our processing facility in Lake Wales, Florida.
• 20:45
  And I'm listening to our lab guys talk about how do you process the cannabis that we grow?
• 20:50
  And they, so when you heat cannabis, it does a process called decarboxylation.
• 20:57
  So it, it cleaves the acid off of the molecule.
• 21:02
  So the plant makes THCA, which is not psychologically, um, uh, active when you psychoactive, when you cleave the acid off.
• 21:14
  it'll bind to CB1 receptors, okay?
• 21:17
  And this is where the high comes from.
• 21:19
  And so I'm listening to this discussion and I said to them, I said, so why do we decarb our CBD strains?
• 21:27
  And they looked at me like I had three eyes.
• 21:30
  They're like, well, you know, this is cause how we do it.
• 21:33
  And I took a step back and I said, well, I said, CBDA actually hangs on four more receptors than what CBD does.
• 21:41
  In fact, CBD doesn't hang on a receptor.
• 21:44
  CBDA will.
• 21:46
  And so I started investigating this and then there's another terpene that comes along that's called beta-karyophylline, which is very close to cannabinoids.
• 21:57
  And beta-karyophylline is also this, they call it a super terpene.
• 22:02
  You take those two together and they hang on a bunch of pain receptors, anti-inflammatory receptors.
• 22:07
  They do a lot of good stuff.
• 22:08
  So tell me about terping, define terping for the audience here.
• 22:12
  So a terpene is just a plant chemical.
• 22:15
  So if you think of lavender, lavender that smell is a terpene called linalool.
• 22:22
  If you've ever smelled pine-sol, that is a terpene called pining.
• 22:27
  So these are little plant molecules that are very, very pro.
• 22:30
  I mean, we've been using them for hundreds and thousands of years.
• 22:34
  Not always, not always, but they're little plant chemicals.
• 22:38
  And so a terpene so.
• 22:40
  Beta-karyophylline would be considered a cannabinoid if it didn't come in black pepper and mangoes.
• 22:48
  Okay, so there's a little bit there.
• 22:49
  So it doesn't have the cannabinoid status, but it has a terpene status.
• 22:53
  So those two things land on pain receptors, land on inflammatory receptors.
• 23:01
  They do things that lower HRV, because again, when you start looking at what's going to lower your HRV, make it worse,
• 23:10
  The number one driver of poor HRV is inflammation.
• 23:15
  And then by the way, in our HRV+, it's carried in a fish oil, DHA, EPA fish oil with SPMs.
• 23:26
  And I know you're a real fan of specialized pro resolving mediators.
• 23:30
  So when we develop this,
• 23:32
  knows, special pro-resolving meteors are derivatives of fish oil that are about 200 to 250 times more potent at resolving inflammation.
• 23:42
  So, yeah, we use them all the time.
• 23:45
  We like them in conjunction with hydrogen.
• 23:46
  We like them in conjunction with other stuff.
• 23:48
  But, yeah, they're a good standalone.
• 23:50
  But now, so you actually put CVDA, SPMs,
• 23:57
  And also this beta keratinabinol, karyophylline.
• 24:00
  Yep.
• 24:03
  So they're all in the same product.
• 24:05
  And what happened, Dr.
• 24:07
  Gladden, so I, again, my buddy calls me, says, what do you know about autophagy?
• 24:13
  I said, I have a passing understanding.
• 24:15
  He says, what do you know about spermidine?
• 24:16
  I'm like, I never heard of it.
• 24:19
  He sends me a TED talk that was done by Dr.
• 24:23
  Frank Medeo in Austria.
• 24:27
  And so I have to take this Ted Talk in German and convert it to English.
• 24:31
  And I read the thing and I'm like, ah, this is interesting.
• 24:34
  And ironically, I have a good friend down in Pensacola, Florida that runs a big research facility down there.
• 24:42
  And I texted him, I said, what have you ever heard of, have you ever heard of this thing called spermidine?
• 24:47
  Well, my phone auto corrected to spermicide.
• 24:52
  He sent me back a note, he says, you talking about spermidine?
• 24:55
  And I'm like,
• 24:56
  And I'm like, yeah, that's what I intended to talk about.
• 24:58
  He says, and so this is when I'm like, okay, we're onto something here.
• 25:02
  And they said, listen, we want you to come do for us at Longevity Labs what you did in Florida.
• 25:08
  And that's make this fairly complex concept approachable.
• 25:13
  So people understand it.
• 25:14
  So to answer your first question, that's kind of the background how I got here.
• 25:19
  Okay, well that's the first question.
• 25:20
  I'm glad we got that out of the way in the first 30 minutes.
• 25:24
  Yeah, exactly.
• 25:25
  So, okay.
• 25:26
  Well, here's question number two.
• 25:29
  What the hell are you doing now?
• 25:31
  Yeah.
• 25:32
  So I'm flying around the country, working with people like you, working with clinics, with doctors, talking about autophagy, the value of autophagy, lots of functional medicine
• 25:44
  doctors.
• 25:44
  They're trying to figure out how do I get into this space.
• 25:48
  And we have a product called Spermidine Life, which is a high spermidine extract that comes from a wheat germ product.
• 25:57
  This is what it looks like, Spermidine Life.
• 26:00
  that comes from wheat germ that's processed in Austria.
• 26:04
  It's not American wheat germ.
• 26:06
  This is really important because we can't find wheat germ in the states that we can process to be high sperminite.
• 26:14
  Because of just agricultural laws and the way things are grown, we just can't find it here.
• 26:19
  So that's what I do.
• 26:21
  I was being a little facetious with question number two.
• 26:23
  So let's talk about actually spermidine and why it's important and autophagy and how that works and how spermidine actually potentiates it.
• 26:33
  Well, so when we started this journey, now ironically, and I don't know if you've talked about this on your podcast, I have not listened to all of them, but it's important to note
• 26:45
  that they awarded a Nobel Prize in 2016 to a Japanese researcher who described the process of autophagy.
• 26:54
  So we're dealing with relatively bleeding edge kind of science here.
• 27:01
  So...
• 27:02
  Shortly after that, well, it was actually 2018, 17 and 18, that Dr.
• 27:08
  Frank Medeo at the University of Graz in Austria started doing some research looking at sperminine supplementation with senescent cells.
• 27:19
  And his early work showed that sperminine on some of these senescent cells reversed the senescence.
• 27:25
  Okay, so let me put this in a little bigger context for the audience.
• 27:28
  So, you know, you've heard of the hallmarks of aging, right?
• 27:31
  There were 13 published in, or nine published in 2013, and we're up to about 16 now.
• 27:37
  One of those hallmarks of aging, which is both an expression of aging and a driver of aging, is the way I think about it, is called proteostasis.
• 27:46
  And that has to do with proteins in the body.
• 27:48
  And so, proteostasis has to do with how proteins are.
• 27:53
  coded for at the DNA level, how they're transcribed in the messenger RNA, how they're produced, then how they fold, how they function, and then how they're disposed of at their
• 28:03
  end of life.
• 28:04
  And so that whole process of maintaining the integrity of all those steps is part of proteostasis.
• 28:10
  And when that goes awry for a variety of reasons, you get essentially get proteins that don't work as well, and so consequently your cells can't work as well.
• 28:19
  So autophagy is...
• 28:22
  is a portion of the proteostasis process, if you will, that's responsible for recycling the protein.
• 28:29
  When the protein is done or it's deemed not to be salvageable by refolding or something like that, then basically it's gobbled up and the contents are recycled.
• 28:39
  So autophagy is this sort of spring cleaning of your cells to clean out these proteins.
• 28:44
  And it happens naturally with things like fasting, exercise.
• 28:49
  which basically potentiates cellular needs.
• 28:52
  So all these things that we know are good for us helps to potentiate autophagy.
• 28:57
  But spermidine, step that in, and now it actually really potentiates autophagy.
• 29:03
  Well, we actually, I'm going to cheat here just a little bit and give you a little bit of a news, but we've got an article that we expect to be in press this month.
• 29:15
  That if you take and you block spermidine synthase, and so that you're not able to, and this isn't model organisms, this is worms and flies and mice, and you block the ability to
• 29:29
  produce spermidine in a cell.
• 29:32
  Even with fasting, autophagy is dramatically reduced.
• 29:37
  Right, that's another good point to make is that spermidine is actually made in the body, right?
• 29:42
  So this is, yeah, it is.
• 29:44
  There are, are they called polyamines or monoamines?
• 29:48
  Polyamines, right?
• 29:50
  And there's a family of these, of which spermidine is one.
• 29:53
  And so the body does make these and it has a purpose and a use.
• 29:57
  What we're talking about here is actually, you know, exogenously, you know, from the outside going in, adding spermidine to the mix, right?
• 30:05
  And potentiating autophagy.
• 30:07
  is what we listen there was a really good study done looking at blue zones and they looked at the diet of blue zones they looked at sperminin content in the diet of blue zoners and
• 30:16
  it's really high.
• 30:17
  So what we know is that we see this drop off in autophagy that comes with aging.
• 30:22
  We see a drop off in sperminin consumption in most people.
• 30:27
  Well we do know is that you can supplement sperminin orally we can extract it from food sources.
• 30:34
  That's what we do.
• 30:35
  raise it up in an oral supplement and raise spermidine levels on board.
• 30:40
  So.
• 30:41
  And we also have a way to actually measure autophagy.
• 30:44
  So we developed a test.
• 30:47
  We're trying to actually crack the code on how do you actually measure the status of these hallmarks of aging, right?
• 30:52
  Because it's hard to do, right?
• 30:54
  It's the $64,000 question right now.
• 30:57
  So we've been able to do it with eight of them and we're going to expand it.
• 31:01
  We're looking for some funding, quite honestly, maybe sper but we're looking for some additional funding to actually do the rest.
• 31:08
  And so we're doing transcriptomics and proteomics to actually identify where somebody is.
• 31:14
  And what's interesting is that the people that are working with gladden longevity, almost uniformly, their autophagy levels are really high.
• 31:22
  compared to, right, which is like really good to see.
• 31:24
  But we have people taking spermidine, we have them exercising, we have them doing, you know, appropriate fasting or windows of eating, things like that, so pretty interesting.
• 31:32
  Well, and I'll tell you, we have another paper coming.
• 31:34
  We expect it early this year.
• 31:36
  I don't expect this one this month.
• 31:37
  It's coming out of Oxford that we think we've identified some more proteins that we can associate back to the autophagy process.
• 31:47
  So still soon to come.
• 31:48
  So when you mention that, so are you thinking that these proteins are targets that could be augmented in addition to what spermidine's doing, or how are you thinking about?
• 31:58
  No, listen, one of the challenges, ultimately, one of the challenges that we have as a company is we've got this product, it's not the cheapest product in the world, but for us
• 32:10
  to acquire a client, we've got to teach the science, okay?
• 32:14
  They've got to walk away understanding science because you really don't, you don't feel this.
• 32:18
  It's not like this product's going in and landing on a receptor.
• 32:23
  You're not getting that, but.
• 32:24
  You know, phenotypically, you see this product express itself in three to five weeks, mainly through your fingernails start growing like crazy.
• 32:33
  And this is one of the byproducts of spermidine based autophagy, is you have an up regulation of epithelial stem cell production.
• 32:42
  And so the skin, the epithelial cells, which make your skin, your nails and your hair, they start working and everybody's like, wow, my fingernails started growing like crazy.
• 32:51
  Nice.
• 32:53
  My brother calls me one day and says, you've got to start selling a razor with this stuff because the hair on my back is growing like crazy.
• 33:01
  But so we haven't been able to get it to necessarily work on male pattern baldness, but it still makes hair grow everywhere else.
• 33:08
  no, so here's the thing.
• 33:08
  You just need to partner with the shave club, right?
• 33:11
  That's all.
• 33:12
  So, right.
• 33:13
  go, yeah.
• 33:14
  But yeah, so it's that epithelial stem cell and there's just so many benefits.
• 33:17
  You know, we just partnered with a company called Young Goose.
• 33:21
  It's a skincare company and they...
• 33:25
  Oh good, Amate.
• 33:27
  Yeah, we just launched a product with Young Goose that has a spermidine, that includes spermidine and it's called their Youth Serum.
• 33:37
  And when you look at the ability...
• 33:39
  Is it topical?
• 33:40
  Okay.
• 33:41
  Was it absorbed?
• 33:43
  Spermium is a pretty big molecule, isn't it?
• 33:45
  Yeah, but listen, what we're finding is that when you look at the matrix in the skin, that skin also, it has that protective mechanism to it.
• 33:54
  So everything doesn't necessarily make it to the top.
• 33:57
  If you hit it from the other side, you get some benefit there.
• 34:00
  So, and again, when you look at scars, wounds, surgeries, things like that, having that matrix,
• 34:08
  Autophagy is a huge part of wound healing.
• 34:11
  The ability to turn over those skin cells.
• 34:14
  So again, so we just launched that with Young Goose.
• 34:17
  We're excited about that and they are too.
• 34:21
  It's their youth cream and youth serum, Y-O-U-T-H, youth, big Y-O-U, small T-H.
• 34:29
  So yeah, you'll see.
• 34:30
  cream and youth serum.
• 34:31
  Okay, yeah, we had a conversation with them maybe a year ago or so.
• 34:36
  They have some.
• 34:38
  They are.
• 34:39
  one of those companies that you love working with.
• 34:41
  They're really science-based.
• 34:43
  We love working with them.
• 34:44
  Nice.
• 34:47
  Okay.
• 34:48
  We'll have to check that out.
• 34:52
  There was a funny story on how they named it Young Goose.
• 34:54
  I don't remember the story.
• 34:56
  Do you, Steve?
• 34:56
  How they got that name?
• 34:59
  No, I don't remember off the top of my head.
• 35:00
  this one.
• 35:02
  We asked him, you know, how did you get this, right?
• 35:05
  Young goose, I mean, what are we even talking about?
• 35:07
  It had something to do with somebody's wife looking out the window and seeing something.
• 35:12
  And, you know, it was one of those things that just kind of tripped along, right?
• 35:15
  a Native American naming.
• 35:17
  I looked out the window and I saw a young goose and that's your name.
• 35:20
  and there it was.
• 35:21
  That's our name.
• 35:23
  Cool.
• 35:24
  All right.
• 35:24
  Well, that's fun.
• 35:26
  So you're doing a great job of actually, how long have we been using Spermity?
• 35:30
  We've been using it for a couple of years.
• 35:31
  I think when you first came out.
• 35:33
  Yeah.
• 35:35
  Three years now.
• 35:35
  Yeah, I think that's right.
• 35:37
  Yeah, we've been big fans of it actually.
• 35:40
  We have most of our clients taking it.
• 35:43
  So is there something else that your company is working on now?
• 35:46
  I know about the skin product, but do you have another, you talked about these other proteins, what else is in the pipeline?
• 35:51
  So we expect by middle of summer to be launching in the United States a niacin nicotinamide enhanced product.
• 36:02
  So it's going to be, it's called NAD Life.
• 36:07
  So it's a nicotinamide riboside with spermidine with some other things in there.
• 36:12
  So we expect to have that launching in the States by middle of the year.
• 36:16
  You'll for sure have it.
• 36:17
  We'll for sure have it at A4M in December.
• 36:23
  But we're also going to be down.
• 36:25
  We'll be in a show in Dallas in late June.
• 36:30
  I'll probably be by the clinic when we do this to drop some off.
• 36:33
  So we're looking at some novel combinations.
• 36:37
  We're looking, OK, what are things that we can bring together?
• 36:40
  Again, that's where the HRV Plus came from.
• 36:42
  ask you this, in your research, have you found that smirmidine in any way enhances NAD production or NAD levels or CD38, decreasing CD38 activity or anything like that?
• 36:54
  I've not seen that in any of the work that's being done.
• 36:57
  Now, I don't see all the work that's done.
• 37:02
  But again, so Longevity Labs and Dr.
• 37:07
  Medeo are very much about autophagy and sperminine.
• 37:12
  That's what their specialty is.
• 37:14
  But we've been able to partner with some good Austrian companies.
• 37:17
  Again, and good researchers, and again, that's where some of these partner products, because what we're finding out is that, listen, from a market standpoint, you can only go
• 37:27
  so far with this crazy thing named spermidine.
• 37:31
  And at some point in time, you'd love the fact that someone's gonna walk into a Walmart and pull something off the shelf.
• 37:37
  Pretty sure someone's not gonna pick a bottle named spermidine up off the shelf in Walmart.
• 37:41
  So we gotta figure that out.
• 37:43
  But at the same...
• 37:44
  Well, unless they confuse it with spermicide.
• 37:47
  But.
• 37:50
  I'm not going there.
• 37:53
  But listen, it's been an exciting three years so far.
• 37:56
  And again, I get to work with clinics like yours.
• 37:59
  And I'm on an airplane about every other week right now and working with great clinics across the country.
• 38:07
  And this is what's most exciting is that, listen, the people listening to your podcast get functional medicine for the most part.
• 38:14
  They figured out.
• 38:16
  that they can't go to their regular doctor that's paid for by insurance and get the kind of care that they get at Gladden Longevity.
• 38:26
  And it's awareness.
• 38:28
  So we're building awareness all along.
• 38:30
  Now, I think we will continue as you do your work, there'll be more and more doctors follow in your footsteps.
• 38:39
  We hope to be there to help support them.
• 38:41
  Again, because you know what, Dr.
• 38:43
  Gladden, are they teaching autophagy in med school yet?
• 38:46
  No, not that I know about.
• 38:48
  But I haven't been in med school in a year or two, so.
• 38:50
  Yeah, so, and it's been a couple since I've taught, you know, the exercise sciences, but, you know, my daughter graduated from Ohio State in 2020, and they still aren't teaching
• 39:03
  heart rate variability in the exercise physiology program.
• 39:08
  And I don't think there's a more important key performance indicator.
• 39:12
  Yeah, I agree.
• 39:13
  HRV is also, I think it's a longevity indicator.
• 39:16
  And what I've found is that HRV is impacted by, you were talking about inflammation and that's true.
• 39:23
  It's also impacted by stress, right?
• 39:26
  Physical stress or emotional stress, I found, can actually really jack with HRV.
• 39:32
  So just so you have a feel for that.
• 39:34
  again, stress comes in two kinds.
• 39:37
  There's what we call sympathetic stress.
• 39:38
  That's the fight or flight response.
• 39:41
  Then there's parasympathetic stress.
• 39:43
  And what we learned at Ohio State is that, and now I do it with anyone else I talk to, is we program both, okay?
• 39:51
  That we program exercise using frequency, intensity, time, and mode.
• 39:58
  Well, we also...
• 39:59
  program recovery using frequency, intensity, time, and mode.
• 40:05
  You know, we used a lot of century deprivation float tanks.
• 40:10
  Oh yeah, I've done those.
• 40:12
  I never could get completely deprived.
• 40:14
  Somehow I was always in touch with something, I don't know.
• 40:17
  The I am too, but we floated my team 140 times the last year I was there.
• 40:26
  It moves, well, now listen, it was just, it was a, listen, these are high school boys, excuse me, college boys that have demands.
• 40:37
  And when I got that hour,
• 40:40
  I carved out an hour of their day when I wasn't competing with anybody else.
• 40:45
  I wasn't competing with headphones or study or any.
• 40:48
  Now, most of these guys went into the tank and were asleep four minutes into the thing.
• 40:53
  Um, and I woke them up when we opened the tank, but I've never fallen asleep in there.
• 40:58
  Um,
• 40:59
  I haven't either.
• 41:00
  I could never really get fully deprived.
• 41:02
  I can meditate.
• 41:03
  I can go into amazing meditative states, but I had a hard time in the tank.
• 41:08
  I kept sort of bumping into the edge or feeling something slosh in my ear.
• 41:13
  I don't know, there was just enough distraction to make it not exactly what I'm going for.
• 41:18
  I completely agree and I agree with you that along the way, now I would not put my guys in a tank until they had finished up the first 10 days of the Headspace app, which is a
• 41:31
  meditation app because you can't take a 19 year old kid and throw them in there with no skills.
• 41:36
  So meditation is a skill.
• 41:39
  It's a frequency, it's an intensity, it's a time, it's a duration.
• 41:42
  So you gotta build that skill.
• 41:44
  So once I put them in the tank,
• 41:46
  They had the ability to go into a deep meditative state and manage.
• 41:50
  Now, honestly, I had some guys who couldn't do it.
• 41:54
  Oh, by the way, we couldn't get their HRV above 75 milliseconds.
• 41:58
  So.
• 41:59
  say meditation will raise HRV too, quite honestly.
• 42:02
  absolutely.
• 42:03
  And there's good tools.
• 42:04
  There's really good tools.
• 42:06
  And they're out there, they're available and love heart math, yep.
• 42:13
  Yeah.
• 42:14
  So these are, if you're listening to this and you're curious about raising your HRV, learning to meditate or using something like HeartMath to kind of coach you into a
• 42:23
  meditative state can be helpful.
• 42:24
  Brain tap can be super helpful in that regard.
• 42:28
  Um, and yeah, they're really good.
• 42:31
  You can go into a theta state with that, where you're kind of in that, uh, semi awake and
• 42:36
  You can be so relaxed.
• 42:38
  It's really good before you go to bed, but it also, that will raise HRV.
• 42:42
  And then I'm really curious about the supplement.
• 42:43
  I've seen it, but I haven't really used it with any frequency.
• 42:47
  I'm also curious about the skin cream.
• 42:48
  That would be fun to try.
• 42:50
  We'll get you some both.
• 42:51
  So I'll tell you a funny heart math story.
• 42:52
  I think you'll like it.
• 42:53
  So my Olympic gold medalist, his name was Kyle Snyder.
• 42:56
  So this is in 18.
• 42:57
  This is two years after he's won his gold medal.
• 43:00
  He's won another world championship by now.
• 43:02
  He's not lost a wrestling match in three years.
• 43:05
  We're wrestling the University of Michigan, which is our arch rival.
• 43:09
  And Michigan that year had a wrestler that was also a world champion.
• 43:15
  But Kyle wrestled, he internationally wrestles 97 KGs,
• 43:19
  He walked around our wrestling room about 230 most days.
• 43:23
  So this kid he's wrestling from Michigan walks around the room at about 290 and he has to cut weight to make 275.
• 43:29
  This guy's got a 700 pound squat.
• 43:31
  I mean, he's a beast.
• 43:33
  And he's a world champion.
• 43:36
  Okay, he's very good.
• 43:37
  So in the dual meet up in Michigan, so I measured guys HRV every morning, right?
• 43:43
  When they woke up, we weren't using nighttime measurement yet we were still using omega waves back then.
• 43:48
  And
• 43:49
  got the lowest reading from him I had in years.
• 43:53
  Now, I didn't say anything.
• 43:54
  Whenever I measured the guys in the morning, they knew all I was gonna say, you look great, you're ready to go, good job.
• 44:00
  Because by that time I can't change much.
• 44:03
  But he goes out and he lost that duel me.
• 44:05
  First match he's lost at any level in three years.
• 44:10
  That morning his HRV was the lowest HRRMSSD, the lowest, what is the typical HRV measurement you see.
• 44:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 44:18
  Um, and it was in the 50 millisecond range, which 50 milliseconds for a dual meet is not bad for a tournament.
• 44:24
  It's awful.
• 44:26
  Well, I brought him home and I sat him down in my office.
• 44:29
  I said, tell me about what was going on in your head that day.
• 44:33
  And I asked the stupidest question I could have asked.
• 44:35
  I said, were you fearful?
• 44:37
  You never ask a 20 year old Olympic gold medalist.
• 44:39
  I mean, it's fearful.
• 44:40
  Um, but, and, and he starts giving me this raft and I said, wait a minute.
• 44:44
  I said, let me show you what I saw.
• 44:46
  So if you look at HRV, there's a way that you can analyze it using frequency analysis.
• 44:51
  There's what's called low frequency and high frequency.
• 44:55
  Low frequency is typically sympathetic state.
• 45:00
  High frequency is parasympathetic state.
• 45:03
  His LFHF ratio was 20.
• 45:06
  And I'm used to having my guys below one.
• 45:10
  So he said, so what should I do?
• 45:12
  So I hand him a heart math interbalance.
• 45:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 45:15
  We hook it up on his phone.
• 45:17
  He gamifies this thing and he goes off So if you've used heart math, you know that there's levels of challenge He was in their highest challenge level by the end of the day He's an
• 45:29
  Olympic gold medalist he does everything to the extreme
• 45:31
  He can control his nervous system is what it boils down to.
• 45:34
  Well, he wrestled this kid two more times, once in the Big Ten finals and once in the national finals, beating twice.
• 45:40
  We never had an LFHF ratio greater than two.
• 45:44
  So we went from 20 to two.
• 45:46
  I never got below one, but we were able to, and you know what, Dr.
• 45:51
  Glenn, I don't know if you can boost, I don't know if you can lower sympathetic.
• 45:56
  I don't know if you can lower perceived fear.
• 45:59
  You can lower sympathetic.
• 46:00
  It's definitely possible.
• 46:02
  You can also raise parasympathetic.
• 46:04
  And for me, yeah, I'm sure you can raise parasympathetic.
• 46:09
  But you can lower sympathetic also.
• 46:11
  It comes from a different change in perspective, right?
• 46:16
  A lot of it has to do with, in my experience, is not being attached to the outcome, right?
• 46:22
  When you're attached to the outcome, then there's stress.
• 46:25
  When you're no longer attached to the outcome, right?
• 46:29
  Great sports psychology, great sports psychology.
• 46:32
  Yep.
• 46:33
  Well, listen, for me as an athlete, this was a huge part for me, is that I had to stop competing and start performing.
• 46:40
  When I did that, I got really good.
• 46:43
  And you know what, Stephen Kotler, who wrote the book, Stealing Fire, Rise of Superman, Stephen and I have gotten to be friends over the years, and we've sat, now I'm not sure
• 46:53
  you can send a warrior out and have reduced sympathetic.
• 46:58
  but I do know you can send that warrior in.
• 47:01
  And I personally believe flow, this concept of flow comes from a co-engaged sympathetic parasympathetic.
• 47:08
  I need both to really get flow.
• 47:10
  me, flow is a meditative state in action.
• 47:14
  Right?
• 47:15
  And there's got to be just a little bit on the line.
• 47:17
  You've got to have just a little bit.
• 47:19
  is.
• 47:19
  And he talks about that in the rise of Superman.
• 47:21
  You know, if you're looking down that, you know, ski run or that river that you're about to kayak or whatever it is, and you don't have a sense of, holy shit, I'm going to go all
• 47:30
  in on this or I'm going to be dead, then you, then that's enough, that's enough to throw you into the flow state, right?
• 47:36
  If you're 105%, you're fine.
• 47:38
  If it's 120%, you back out, right?
• 47:41
  It's too much.
• 47:42
  You can't get to flow, right?
• 47:43
  So, yeah.
• 47:46
  Yeah.
• 47:46
  so this is the kind of the fun stuff.
• 47:48
  And this is, so going clear back to the beginning of our conversation is that, being a guy who cut his teeth in exercise, phys and performance and working with athletes from a lot
• 48:00
  of different levels and then being forced out of that world.
• 48:04
  I mean, it was, I was challenging some dogmas at Ohio State and frankly, I wasn't welcome there.
• 48:11
  but stepped away.
• 48:12
  And I think every time a door closed, another one opens, this opening to the cannabis world was amazing.
• 48:20
  It was absolutely amazing.
• 48:22
  And then this has transitioned into understanding other small molecules that lead to autophagy, that lead to...
• 48:31
  And you know what?
• 48:31
  Instead of working with the kids I was working with, I'm now working with their parents and grandparents.
• 48:37
  But the key, I call it the rocks in the jar.
• 48:40
  You remember Stephen Covey's book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, and the demo he does about putting the big rocks in the jar than the gravel.
• 48:48
  I think with, I think with longevity and biohacking, we have a tendency to get obsessed with gravel and sand.
• 48:56
  We do, we lose focus on the big rocks.
• 48:59
  You guys get it.
• 49:01
  My first big rock is movement.
• 49:03
  You, you hack movement with exercise.
• 49:05
  And there's any number of ways to hack that.
• 49:07
  Blood flow restriction training, using heart rate, all the things we've discussed.
• 49:11
  My second rock is nutrient-dense food.
• 49:15
  And you hack that with supplements.
• 49:17
  My third rock is sleep.
• 49:19
  You can't hack sleep, but you can hack the sleep environment.
• 49:22
  And then finally, my fourth rock is light.
• 49:25
  You've got to get light of the right wavelength on your skin and in your eyes at the right time of day and keep...
• 49:32
  the toxic or the non-nutritive light out of your eyes and off your skin.
• 49:38
  Those are my four big rocks, but they all go into the jar of purpose.
• 49:43
  You have to have a reason to wake up every morning because our environment around us is driving us away from moving more from nutrient-dense food to shorter sleep cycles and a
• 49:55
  crappy light.
• 49:57
  You have to have a purpose.
• 49:58
  And you see, there's a red light panel over my shoulder here.
• 50:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 50:02
  I'm in an RV.
• 50:03
  I live in a 42 foot fifth wheel RV.
• 50:06
  Over this shoulder here, that's my sauna.
• 50:09
  We didn't make this move into this rig until we could figure out how purpose and lifestyle was served by our environment.
• 50:19
  And so.
• 50:19
  the key.
• 50:20
  This is the key.
• 50:20
  You have to create, you have to construct the environment to support the mission, and you have to make it as effortless as possible, right?
• 50:28
  If you have to effort your way into this, you know, you're gonna fail, that's a guarantee.
• 50:33
  So you have to construct the environment to make it effortless.
• 50:37
  The only thing I would add to your rocks is grounding.
• 50:42
  So I think if you're going to get sunlight, get your feet on the ground and get electrically grounded.
• 50:46
  I mean, the data on electrical grounding is so strong and it's another, you know, kind of natural.
• 50:50
  And, you know, if you can go outside and exercise in your bare feet, swim in the ocean, you know, like I'm able to do here with that kind of stuff.
• 50:57
  Now you're just killing six birds with one stone, right?
• 51:00
  So it's cool.
• 51:00
  Yeah.
• 51:01
  Listen, I wouldn't debate that for a minute.
• 51:03
  Yeah, so good stuff.
• 51:05
  You know, one of the things I like about what you said though, is that, and this is really a life skill, I think this is a longevity skill, quite honestly, and that is that the
• 51:16
  people at Ohio State were in a position where they had some dogmas that they were kind of married to, right?
• 51:25
  And I call that binary thinking, where people kind of get locked into a way of thinking.
• 51:29
  And what I like about this story that you've told over the last...
• 51:33
  better part of an hour, is that you're really more of a quantum thinker, right?
• 51:38
  You're not tied into a binary process.
• 51:40
  You're looking at all the realm of possibilities, right?
• 51:43
  The full range of possibilities.
• 51:45
  And out of that, how do we put this together?
• 51:46
  How does cannabis tie into HRV?
• 51:49
  How does spermidine tie into autophagy turn into, you know, longevity?
• 51:54
  How do we marry it to a cream that enables you to actually have more stem cell function in your face?
• 51:58
  And, you know, there's a lot of quantum thinking going on inside your brain.
• 52:01
  And I think that
• 52:03
  If you're listening to this, that in and of itself is a really great indicator, I think, of longevity because you keep innovating, keep iterating, you're not married to what
• 52:12
  you've done in the past.
• 52:14
  What I did in the past was great, but I'm really interested in doing this now, right?
• 52:17
  And I think that's the right mindset.
• 52:19
  And come think, I just thought it was cigarettes and cobwebs up there.
• 52:25
  Well, you come a long way.
• 52:26
  That's all I can say.
• 52:27
  Yeah, good stuff.
• 52:31
  Well.
• 52:31
  yeah, listen, I grew up a farm kid in Eastern Ohio.
• 52:35
  And you know what?
• 52:37
  You don't live on a farm and not figure things out.
• 52:41
  It's part of the gig.
• 52:42
  You wake up every morning doing that.
• 52:45
  There's nothing.
• 52:46
  The only routine part is putting your coveralls on and your boots on and getting out the door.
• 52:52
  And so it's what Scott and his wear.
• 52:58
  And I'm sure you are the same way.
• 53:01
  I'm so excited.
• 53:02
  Listen, I feel like I learned more in the last year than I had my entire career before that.
• 53:11
  And I expect to learn more next year than I have up until now.
• 53:16
  That's what's so exciting.
• 53:18
  It is.
• 53:19
  I mean, how can you not be completely enthralled and excited by life?
• 53:22
  It's like, oh my gosh.
• 53:24
  It just keeps opening up in new ways, right?
• 53:26
  So it's fantastic.
• 53:27
  we don't have the answers.
• 53:30
  We don't.
• 53:33
  Yeah.
• 53:38
  That's why I loved about Stephen Hawking.
• 53:40
  I mean, Stephen Hawking was so smart because of his questions.
• 53:43
  His questions were so good.
• 53:46
  And that's what I love to do.
• 53:48
  Beautiful.
• 53:50
  Well, Don, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show.
• 53:52
  Really enjoyed the conversation.
• 53:54
  I thought it might be a boring show, but it turned out to be a great show.
• 53:56
  Well, I really appreciate that.
• 53:59
  I appreciate the opportunity to get on with you guys and to talk to your tribe.
• 54:05
  We are excited about it.
• 54:06
  We love working with you guys and anything that we can do to collaborate, we will do in a heartbeat.
• 54:12
  Yeah, that sounds perfect.
• 54:13
  We'll definitely do that.
• 54:14
  So perfect.
• 54:17
  it's done.