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From Kilowatts to Kilobytes: The Power of Smart Meters and Emerging Tech · Full of Energy: An AEE Podcast

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Hello, and welcome back to another episode of
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full of energy, an Ae podcast where we
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talk about workforce development, energy hot topics and
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energy policy.
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The Association of Energy engineers, otherwise known as
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Ae
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is a professional organization of over 17000 members
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and 32000
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actively certified individuals in over a hundred and
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25 countries.
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Ae serves your needs for career development, networking
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and recognition.
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With the increasing pressure to reduce energy consumption
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and carbon emissions, it's more important than ever
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to have a clear understanding of how and
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where energy is being used.
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Today, I'm joined by Christy Cannon in Za
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muhammad to talk about the power of smart
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meters and emerging tech. We're gonna dive into
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real time data collection and how it plays
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a crucial role in effective energy management
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and how leveraging these advanced technologies can create
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a more cleaner and sustainable future. Christie, do
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you mind introducing yourself?
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Yeah, thank you, Lauren. I appreciate that. I'm
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Christie Cannon. I've been a certified energy manager
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of for a 15 years with the association
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of energy engineers,
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have a bachelor of science mathematics, minor in
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Physics I did 2 years, postgraduate study and
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civil engineering.
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I've been in this industry for, little over
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2 decades,
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including surviving the the tech electric market der
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of of 2002.
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So hands up, high 5. To anybody else
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who who went through that.
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I think done everything, the from building databases
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that model
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utility tariff rate schedules to on Ash rate
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audits,
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and a lot of education conducting classes on
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peak man management, and electric market economics.
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At the political level, really for city managers,
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facility, directors, mayors, things like that. At at
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Yard Systems, which is where I work now,
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and... I've been here for 12 years. I
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focus on real time metering, data acquisition and
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data visualization,
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and alerting tools for all kinds of building
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systems that we interface with. I would like
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to add them in my third year on
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the Ae of Advisory board, and I am
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a c will member on the mentorship committee,
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which I I absolutely love.
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And on a more personal note, my what
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hippie. And so I like to say that
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we had rain barrels way before they cool
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or sold by Costco.
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Thank you for that quick introduction. Christy, Za
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do you my telling us a little bit
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about yourselves. Sure. Thank you.
2:23
Thank you, Christy. Nice meeting you. My name
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is Za. I'm
2:27
currently working with Gulf organization for research and
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development
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as
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a director for Forgot advisory,
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my background is building energy services and sustainable
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energy. I I'm a certified energy manager, certified,
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measurement and verification professional.
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And an Re renewable energy professional by Ae,
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plus, I have done my Iso 50001 lead
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auditor. So my
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main
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area of work involves around advising and conducting
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energy efficiency,
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audit, super as a super in Qatar,
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We manage
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energy efficiency projects. We manage renewable energy projects.
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We we do measurement and verification in,
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coordination with the,
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government here ministry of
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electricity and water. We are the authorized measurement
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and verification
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entity.
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My background,
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I I've have been in India, I've been...
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I've worked in Bahrain, Oman Saudi Arabia. And
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for last 10 years, I'm in, Tata, I'm,
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dealing in green building certifications.
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Energy es projects, so that's my background. I'm
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coming from actual,
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you know,
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Have seen the projects where we have struggled
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in terms of energy, and we were happy
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to bring in some energy saving measures
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and
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being Ae,
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Qatar chapter. We are driving the ae mission
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and vision in the region in the country
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here. So that's a quick
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note about me. And
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I have been in the region for long,
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So I'm trying to, you know, learn different
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languages.
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Understanding little bit of arabic
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and other... Because it's so multi multicultural here.
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So trying to learn different languages.
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That's impressive. You you both have impressive grounds
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and, you know, I'm really excited to learn
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from you today. So let's start with energy
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efficiency.
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Za, why is real find data collection essential
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for effective energy management. And do you have
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any examples of how real time data has
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led to big energy savings?
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Definitely. So energy savings is in itself a
4:37
big, field. Okay. Energy efficiency,
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energy, management brings a lot of challenges, and
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also, there is a lot of, you know,
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lack of information or knowledge in the current
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scenario. So When you... When we are bringing
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real time data collection, this is giving the
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potential users or the end users, the
5:00
chance to understand where they are spending, what
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they are spending,
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How much of energy is being used, Are
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they using it effectively?
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Or can they use it more effective? So
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these... All these insights are effective? I mean,
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that's where,
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we can get it from the real time
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data collection from various, hardware solutions we have,
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and this can lead
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to energy savings. I mean, I Will not
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say that bringing,
5:28
meters would help, but having real time data
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will give you a real understanding of what
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is,
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being used and whether, we can have an,
5:39
an optimized way of
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reducing the energy waste is waste or optimizing
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the way these systems are being used or
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bringing in the new technology to, you know,
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bringing in energy efficiency to, that's the big
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take. I would say, having real time data.
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So
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understanding the pattern during the daytime during the
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uno unidentified hours or provider was time. If
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any equipment is having,
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you know, higher consumption than the normal so
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that can be added base.
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I believe this can be the quick quick
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ones. Christy, you wanna add something on this.
6:14
Yeah. Just a couple things.
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Absolutely hundred percent agree with everything you said.
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I would say from from our perspective in
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mind, which is a little less technical
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starting with just a couple general examples.
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Obviously, real time data collection is really critical
6:30
to leak detection. Which a lot of our
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clients deal with and the longer leak goes
6:35
undetected, the greater the collateral damage. So not
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just building infrastructure fur furnishings, but things like
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mold.
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And then switching over to electric, you know,
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real time data is critical to help you
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manage your peak demand.
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And for commercial rates, which 40 to 60
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percent of your your electric cost on commercial
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rates is a direct
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relation to your peak demand.
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If you don't know when you're using power,
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you can't hope to influence your peak demand.
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And then just more specifically,
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I think it's easy to point to case
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studies in the industry. Where kind of the
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proof is in the pudding.
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So there are published large scale case studies
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by Inter na and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
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that quan savings from real time data in
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particular.
7:22
I, the institute for market
7:24
transformation, Put out 1 as well. That included
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data
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visualization for meters. Like Z was mentioning that's
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critical. You've got to be able to visualize
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that data in real time you know, the
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hardware itself is not gonna help you by
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itself.
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And they saw 2 to 5 percent reduction
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in savings,
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or savings of 2 to 5 percent, a
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reduction in usage
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when real time data is available.
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And in whatever company you're working with that
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that might be in stalling hardware. They're gonna
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have their own client based case studies.
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So we we did,
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real time interval data,
8:02
with, sub installed in a landmark building in
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New York City. We won an Ae award
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for it,
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and that was half a million dollars a
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year in annual savings. So all you have
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to do is Google the phrase real time
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interval data and you'll find all kinds of
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actual case savings in scenarios.
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So what role do meters play and identifying
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these potential energy savings.
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I would say
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meters are the correct or the main or
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crucial element of trying to find out where
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and how we can generate
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energy saving. For example,
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if you don't have a meter installed. Like,
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this can be at the, you know, can,
8:46
billing level on are we would prefer and
8:49
from our side, we are trying to regulate
8:51
this as well to have some meters,
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not at the tenant level, but at the
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end use level. So what happens how much
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of energy is being used for
9:00
cooling, heating
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appliances,
9:03
domestic hot water, if they have renewable energy,
9:06
how much of energy is being generated,
9:08
lighting energy. So this all forms the conference,
9:12
and this is where where we, you know,
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we get the whole data of the whole
9:16
building. But Placing meters is the first step.
9:20
Without having energy meters, we will not have,
9:23
the data or, we don't have the insights
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into what is being consumed at what level
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and how much is being consumed. So having
9:31
energy meters will definitely,
9:33
be the first step in
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recognizing where is the potential for bringing in
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energy efficiency,
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monitoring the consumption pattern,
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identifying peaks and off peaks Okay. Ping pinpoint
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on
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energy,
9:47
usage pattern and and,
9:50
benchmarking, if you want to do benchmarking with
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our own building historical data, or we want
9:56
to benchmark with, you know, national or state
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level
10:00
benchmarks, what should be the, energy So to
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understand that pattern,
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verification of energy savings, specifically when we go
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into new projects or retrofit projects,
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without energy meters, you cannot do measurement and
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verification. So any,
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energy saving measures, we are implementing
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energy meters are basic
10:19
infrastructure required to understand
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whether whatever was installed, whether it's performing at
10:26
same level, or is there any gap? If
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yes, what are the gaps?
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And if sometimes the are
10:34
you know, very efficient, but the behavior of
10:36
the people using them might be the, you
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know, impact, For example,
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we have installed very good equipment, but the
10:41
operator who is you know, using it. They
10:44
are not setting the equipment at the right
10:47
set points or they are using it for,
10:50
more. We have seen this.
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Qatar is famous for hosting the World cup
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and in a very successful way. So we
10:57
had this opportunity where we had meters and
11:00
stuff. But if the technicians who are at
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the ground. If this information is not cascade
11:05
properly to them, so they might not be
11:07
using. So trial runs before we had some,
11:11
office buildings, some other areas where we were
11:13
showcasing 1 of the good efficient building.
11:16
What we found was, all the mode options
11:19
were turned off,
11:20
and,
11:21
technicians were running it on manual because it
11:24
was have... Giving them hard time be... When
11:26
it is autumn. So all this information about
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energy efficiency, especially if we have a real
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time data,
11:32
which is, again, connecting back to initial topic
11:34
of real time data. So this gives us
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insights when was the machine,
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or equipment turned on, And what was the
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set point temperature or depending on the usage
11:44
if it's a factory or an industry? The
11:46
machine operating hours. So this is a basic,
11:50
infrastructure
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which can lead to, you, understanding the energy
11:53
use patterns and benchmarking. And
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in some cases, it's also
11:58
required by the regulatory bodies by the... Compliance
12:00
some mechanisms to get incentives rebates,
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or showing compliance to the requirements of the
12:06
state or the federal level
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break regulations. And that's an amazing answer. Those
12:13
aren't so many great. Great examples. I mean,
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basically, you can't manage what you can't measure.
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And certainly for,
12:21
common area
12:22
spaces that our clients building owner or fee
12:25
managers can control. All of those things you've
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listed are just
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amazing examples of things you can do. I
12:31
think the only other thing that I would
12:33
add is first it's tough when,
12:37
building occupants
12:38
when their units, a space that you... You
12:40
can't are building owners and fee managers can't
12:43
control.
12:45
Meters play a huge role in energy savings
12:48
because studies have shown that they'll decrease their
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energy usage is meant is 30 percent. When
12:53
they are sub metered and directly accountable for
12:56
the cost of their usage.
12:59
Yes. Is definitely. Yeah.
13:02
So how can energy managers balance the cost
13:05
of implementing these advanced metering systems with the
13:09
potential savings for energy efficiency?
13:11
Firstly, I mean, having energy meters
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will not be the
13:16
savings directly settings, but energy meters are driving.
13:20
And now with meters combined with the latest
13:23
technologies,
13:24
for example, being part of, Bms system or
13:27
the smart grid, the smart
13:29
system will definitely bring in,
13:32
savings. So energy managers have to do a
13:35
cost benefit analysis or
13:37
return on investment analysis. What is the savings?
13:40
And sometimes it's not only the direct savings
13:42
because of having the
13:45
smart infrastructure, smart meters,
13:48
the
13:50
other savings, which are non direct savings, can
13:53
also should also be accounted, which will help
13:55
into, you know, getting more,
13:57
for example, the durability of the equipment
14:01
might increase by bringing smart meters. And so
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we understand the patents. So we have appropriate
14:06
scheduling off and on of the equipment So
14:09
that is 1 level. And then... So we
14:11
need to definitely look at, long term benefits,
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and in some cases, like I said, if
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there is a requirement from compliance for
14:19
incentives, rebates. So we should look at financial
14:22
incentives and rebates. There are a lot of
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research available on financial incentives, rebates,
14:28
in this region, we are now starting, I
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believe in
14:32
Us, it's very very common of having incentives
14:35
and rebates. Here because the energy cost is
14:38
very less still compared to the other regions.
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But here, still they are you know, having
14:43
other kinds of,
14:45
programs where they are incentivizing
14:48
or
14:48
recognizing and giving awards
14:50
to the entities who are, you know, implementing
14:53
or having
14:54
this kind of thing things. That has to
14:55
be considered as well, which can bring in
14:58
approval from the senior management on... So that
15:01
that cost can be you a mitigated.
15:04
That's
15:05
I believe the way to go.
15:08
Yeah. And again,
15:09
agree with every thing that you said I.
15:12
I would say from from our perspective, and
15:15
and the way we look at it from
15:16
a data software company, very sort of process
15:19
oriented.
15:20
There's a crawl walk run approach to how
15:23
energy managers balance the cost. And a lot
15:25
of it involves looking at at Roi, return
15:27
on investment. So we have the k generally
15:31
kind of taking things slow, don't bite off
15:33
more that you can 2 and end up
15:35
in analysis paralysis,
15:37
start with real time data on your utility
15:39
meters,
15:40
even if those utility meters or master meters
15:42
covering a whole building that are not granular,
15:45
it at least helps you rank your properties
15:47
by energy lost, you know, water intensity. So
15:50
you can see which of your properties or
15:52
kind of your biggest problem children
15:54
then start adding more granular meters for common
15:57
areas, oc units, large equipment, things like that.
16:00
As you take and you take these more
16:02
granular bite, the energy manager is able to
16:05
justify those costs based on the data that's
16:08
already been
16:09
collected. So then once you have an issue
16:11
on where the... Choose or a handle of
16:14
where the issues are in these buildings you've
16:17
identified a problem children,
16:18
then you can make the case for more
16:20
sophisticated
16:21
solutions like unit level leak detection on water,
16:24
Hvac fault detection,
16:26
optimization software and your your chiller plants, your
16:28
air handler, things like that.
16:30
But it's a process
16:32
and it kinda starts
16:33
more,
16:35
overarching and then gets more granular as you
16:38
identify issues. And you're using the data that
16:41
you collected in the prior step to actually
16:43
make the case for
16:45
additional equipment that you want to implement.
16:50
How does visualizing data help make informed decisions
16:54
for energy efficiency?
16:57
Excellent
16:58
question. I believe the first and foremost thing,
17:02
which we can do by having
17:04
visualization is identifying patterns and trends, which is
17:07
the, you know, basic rule, and, I believe
17:10
Kris can add more value on this because
17:12
they are coming from this,
17:15
organization which is dealing in this. But visualizing
17:17
energy consumption data over the time or patent
17:19
and
17:21
will clearly, you know, apparently give us what
17:23
is the daily weekly or seasonal or annual
17:27
fluctuations in the usage pattern?
17:28
Okay? In energy usage pattern, And then understanding
17:31
when and where the energy is being used,
17:35
targeting the,
17:37
efficiency measures to that part where, you know,
17:40
if if if uno occupied hours set point,
17:42
this is our energy usage part. Specifically, going
17:45
into the granular
17:47
level.
17:47
Okay. If I give an example of our
17:50
region,
17:51
Middle East most of the
17:54
year, I can say,
17:55
good 60 to 70 percent of the year,
17:58
air conditioning is required. And what we have
18:00
seen is you cannot go below a certain
18:03
temperature because of high and,
18:06
furniture sure, everything, the humidity is very, very
18:08
high. Maybe, also in some parts of Years
18:11
us on the coastal
18:13
side.
18:14
The humidity is high. So here, you cannot
18:16
even reduce even
18:18
in uno at temperature or time zones. Still
18:21
the Ac are running to keep the furniture
18:23
and keep the humidity, you know, in control
18:25
in check. So, Steve, what we do is
18:28
whether in this, whatever,
18:30
maximum we can go so that we do
18:32
a quick balance between
18:35
you know, the,
18:36
minimum required to maintain the
18:38
infrastructure.
18:39
Or the internal, indoor conditions, and,
18:43
parallel meet the
18:44
energy efficiency goals. So we do a setup
18:47
on that level. So if we don't have
18:50
some meters, and we cannot visualize it, this
18:52
cannot be achieved. Number 1. Same goes with
18:55
the,
18:56
industries where, you know, patterns of usage and
18:59
uno occupied hours or some
19:02
some ways, some machines are, you know, consuming
19:05
higher in uno occupied. Or even during the
19:08
occupied. So this historical trend data will give
19:10
you a real visualization, where we can do
19:13
comparison of performance between different, you know, rooms
19:16
or different equipments or different
19:19
machines or different operators who are working on
19:21
similar, type of equipment that that can be
19:23
done. And based on the trend data, we
19:25
can set goals and targets for each and
19:28
every, end user. So you can understand and
19:31
give set targets internally to having
19:34
to meet some, again, regulatory
19:36
demands or requirements.
19:38
And then this can help us in arriving
19:40
at the optimization of the operational
19:43
performance of the equipment.
19:45
I believe
19:48
I'm not sure if I've missed anything, but,
19:50
Christine over to you. Za, I I can't
19:53
build any details on on what you just
19:56
discussed. Because a hundred a hundred percent agree
19:58
with that. I'll answer the question more from
20:01
a
20:02
philosophical
20:03
perspective, you know, our philosophy is
20:06
management by exception. And you can get interval
20:09
data from your local utility in a lot
20:11
of times, but it's just a spreadsheet of
20:13
data. So would you rather look at a
20:15
spreadsheet of numbers or a line graph that's
20:17
color coded.
20:19
For us,
20:20
visualization takes that complex data, and it basically
20:23
ranges it and grabs some pictures with colors
20:25
that tell you a story. It draws your
20:28
eye naturally to what you need to look
20:30
at. Red yellow green or colors we all
20:32
kind of know and understand. So data visualization
20:35
was something as simple as colors where intelligence
20:38
has been applied to the data.
20:40
To show you what's read as an example,
20:42
something you might wanna take a look at
20:44
is extremely helpful. So as Z mentioned, they're
20:48
lots of different
20:50
visualizations that you can do. You can do
20:52
profiles and you can also have alerts that
20:54
are part of these visualizations,
20:57
lots of different ways that you can display
20:58
the data, but just in general from a
21:00
philosophical point of view. The beauty of
21:03
visualization is that
21:05
it takes
21:06
that complex data
21:08
and it puts it into a picture that
21:11
that's understandable and hopefully actionable. At the end
21:13
of the day that's when it's about.
21:16
Very well put. Agree, totally agreed.
21:20
Great insights. Well, let's let's switch gears a
21:22
little bit and talk about building reporting.
21:25
Christy, how do non invasive meters work and
21:28
what benefits do they offer over traditional meters?
21:33
Yeah. This is something that we are seeing
21:35
more and more in the industry and and
21:37
is exciting for us because of these benefits.
21:42
This would refer to meters that either don't
21:44
require water shut,
21:46
or an electric side electric shutoff or cutting
21:49
into pipes for water and gas specifically.
21:52
For water and gas and I know we
21:54
talk in general about in, you know, energy,
21:56
we're energy managers, water conservation is also a
22:00
big part of what we do.
22:02
The risk with cutting into water and gas
22:04
pipes is always leaks.
22:05
The expense of the plumber that you have
22:08
to pay to install traditional in inline meters.
22:11
So what we're seeing in the industry are
22:13
more sensors that you can install on these
22:17
these dumb meters. I hate to calm dumb
22:19
meters, but, you know, they're not smart meters.
22:22
They're magnetic switch readers is what they are.
22:24
It's a technology
22:26
that
22:27
doesn't require a plumber to install. You don't
22:30
have to cut into pipes. You don't have
22:32
to turn off the utility,
22:33
and it's extremely affordable.
22:37
And so that's something that we see especially
22:39
when clients are just trying to get real
22:41
time data. Like I mentioned that Crawl walk
22:43
1 red approach a lot of clients will
22:45
install these magnetic switch readers on their water
22:47
and their gas utility meters, so they can
22:50
start getting a picture of exactly when usage
22:53
is being used.
22:55
And then there's also clamp on ultrasonic meters
22:58
that are another option. They are a lot
23:00
more expensive.
23:02
But if you do have to sub to
23:04
bill back an unit as an example, build
23:07
back their portion of the utility cost of
23:09
the building,
23:10
your
23:10
jurisdiction might allow clamp on ultrasonic meters
23:13
probably not going to allow magnetic switch readers.
23:17
But we're talking about for magnetic switch readers
23:20
a tenth of the cost of a traditional
23:22
water or gas in line meter. So if
23:24
you need to get interval data, and you've
23:27
got a limited budget and you're trying to
23:29
make the most of the budget that you
23:31
have and get the biggest amount of data,
23:34
that's really what we see a lot of
23:35
our clients going with.
23:38
Totally. I mean,
23:40
I think you have covered everything, Christy. Just
23:42
1 other element which,
23:44
from an energy auditing perspective, I can say
23:47
is, you know, when it's a non invasive
23:49
meter, you're not breaking things. So there is
23:51
no shutdown time. So the end user or
23:54
the... Facility, they don't have to, you know,
23:56
worry about,
23:57
you know, these are the number of towers
23:59
I need to be you know, closed so
24:00
that the meters can be installed. So that
24:02
is 1 benefit. So
24:04
especially when we are doing audit or measurement
24:06
and verification, This can be, you know, easily
24:09
integrated into the system, which can generate data
24:11
and without having any shutdown or, you know,
24:14
closed time, which for some of the customers
24:16
can be, you know, money as well. So
24:19
that that can be removed completely.
24:22
It's a great point. And then you're not
24:23
having to d use your to your audits
24:25
at night after that. I think it's sit.
24:28
And it shut down for business.
24:32
It sounds almost too good to be true,
24:33
So I'm curious how has the industry accepted
24:36
this new technology?
24:39
Yeah. I mean, it's it's definitely
24:41
newer, decades newer than the traditional in line
24:44
meters that we all think about.
24:46
But there's some interesting papers out there. So
24:48
1 that we've looked at recently for V,
24:51
in particular, they're magnetic switch readers for gas
24:54
meters.
24:55
In real, which is the National Renewable Energy
24:57
Laboratory. They published a study for the Us
25:00
And Department of Energy. Summarizing their findings, testing
25:04
these sensors on gas meters and government buildings.
25:07
And they found that magnetic switch readers
25:10
that achieved their criteria for 3 really important
25:13
performance objectives, which was accuracy, the ease of
25:17
installation and integration and we'll talk about integration
25:20
next, and cost effectiveness. As I mentioned, it's
25:23
a tenth of the cost of regular in
25:25
inline meters.
25:27
So with things like this, you know, when
25:29
you've got the stamp of the government on
25:31
their government buildings, people tend to pay attention.
25:34
So we are seen
25:36
this newer technology rolled out across multiple kinds
25:39
of buildings. So we are seeing it in
25:41
commercial buildings industrial,
25:43
retail office, We're starting to see it now
25:45
in residential buildings too. And as I mentioned,
25:48
it's not being used to build back tenants
25:50
or residents.
25:51
We're talking about an accuracy that's plus or
25:54
minus 2 percent on the water side and
25:56
plus or minus maybe a half percent on
25:58
the gas side. So But for real time,
26:01
interval data and and wanting to make good
26:04
energy management
26:05
decisions, it's fantastic for that and cost effective
26:08
beat and the fact that you can roll
26:10
a lot more of them out on more
26:12
of your buildings to start capturing that data,
26:14
visualizing that data,
26:17
that alone, just the cost savings is is
26:20
made it
26:21
pretty... There's been a pretty big uptick in
26:23
the acceptance.
26:27
Just adding our region perspective from the region,
26:30
I believe this is definitely cost
26:33
effective.
26:34
Not very expensive. Lead time is very good
26:36
and multiple options available. So I believe industry
26:40
has has accepted, and there is a huge
26:43
potential as well. So so that's why the
26:45
technology is improving in in this kind of,
26:48
meters.
26:51
That's great to hear. So I'm curious how
26:53
do you access this data?
26:56
Yeah. So that goes to the ease of
26:59
integration piece that I just mentioned. So there's
27:01
a lot of ways that we can access
27:03
that data.
27:05
We see these, we column sub meters, their
27:08
magnetic switch readers for sensors, but we see
27:10
them integrated with building on automation systems in
27:12
larger buildings,
27:15
we see them pulled into central data collector.
27:19
So these centers will have a little trans
27:21
attached and that data will be sent to
27:23
central data collectors.
27:25
These... They have multiple open communication protocols that
27:29
you can utilize, my best long, net that
27:32
allow the data to be absorbed by a
27:34
lot of different service providers.
27:37
And what's interesting is they play well in
27:39
the sandbox
27:40
with other manufacturers. So you can use the
27:43
sensor. You can put on, for example, an
27:45
Century trans send it to an Century gateway,
27:48
you can do the same thing with Levi
27:50
gateways and they're are 88 10 aqua suites.
27:53
So they play really well with other major
27:56
manufacturers in the industry. And they pair well
27:59
with a lot of different say... Central data
28:00
collectors.
28:02
Those data collectors,
28:04
they have, you know,
28:06
Next is other example, a hardware manufacturer that
28:08
has their own cloud.
28:10
And most clients access the Next century cloud
28:14
with an Api,
28:16
So this data can pull... Be pulled into
28:18
any number of different data visualization software packages
28:22
through either the hardware that's installed on the
28:24
site. Building automation system, central data collector or
28:27
through an Api if that data is going
28:30
to a a larger cloud.
28:34
Completely. Agreed. I mean,
28:36
it's become so easy now. I mean, you
28:38
can have
28:39
meters installed with the available technology
28:43
sitting here in Middle East I icon access.
28:45
So we have seen some of the manufacturers,
28:47
especially with the cloud integration coming in.
28:50
It's It's very easy,
28:52
like, Christy was mentioning with the Api, you
28:54
can, you know,
28:56
transfer the data even to your end user
28:58
or your tenant, and they can you know,
29:01
understand the pattern as well. So very easy
29:03
in terms of accessing the data, It has
29:06
its own other
29:07
pros and cons, which I think we will
29:09
discuss later on when we,
29:12
you know, go into the smart
29:14
grid and smart infrastructure section.
29:16
Well, I'm glad you said that because we're
29:18
gonna switch gears again
29:20
from, just talking about buildings, but the actual
29:23
smart grid infrastructure
29:25
So Za, what are... Why are smart meters
29:28
considered essential for building smart grid infrastructure?
29:34
Let me take a back and try to
29:36
understand what what is Smart grid And 1
29:39
of the project we are developing here, which
29:40
is based on Smart grid, but like, more
29:43
of a micro grid. So Smart grid is
29:45
an advanced
29:47
electricity
29:48
distribution network that uses
29:49
digital
29:50
communication, technology,
29:51
control systems,
29:53
meters, and automation to improve the efficiency, reliability,
29:58
overall sustainability of the electricity grid. It has
30:02
2 way communication. That is the main way.
30:04
So it's not just about, you know, like,
30:06
the old meters where where you have it's
30:08
manual, and it's 1 way, you, on or
30:11
off. But with new smart meters,
30:14
having 2 way communication will help you if
30:16
something is, you know, as a owner, for
30:19
example,
30:20
smart meters can be on chill water on
30:22
electricity if if,
30:24
something has to be changed. Let's say, on
30:25
the peak day of the time, that can
30:28
be done. So, 2 way communication, integration to
30:31
renewable energy, Okay. Improved reliability
30:34
and energy efficiency. That's that's smart grid on
30:37
a more micro grid level. It's more a
30:40
small scale level. Okay? That's a small scale
30:44
version of smart grid. But that can be
30:46
operated independently or in conjunction with the main
30:49
electrical grid. But it can be combined with
30:52
the local power. For example, you can have
30:55
on side on your building,
30:56
solar panels. You can have
30:59
wind turbines or any other other form of
31:01
renewable energy that can be combined and controlled
31:04
locally.
31:06
For example, it can be a on a
31:08
university or a campus level. It adds resilience
31:11
and reliability
31:12
on the grid network
31:14
Okay. And plus point is some of the
31:16
new technologies with the,
31:18
so many advancements, all the major
31:22
organizations who are providing the smart or micro
31:24
grids. They have the option where, you know,
31:26
the
31:28
option or or the
31:30
smart grid can provide you, okay, At this
31:31
point of time, the rate from the main
31:34
utility at this level
31:36
or the
31:37
power generated on side from the renewable, or
31:39
the wind is higher at this level. So
31:42
it does this automation and it switches from
31:44
main grid to the on side during renewable
31:46
energy option, or it can store the energy
31:49
to be you... Used at the later on
31:51
stage. So all this can be done. But
31:53
if we don't have a smart meter, all
31:55
this cannot be, added to the layer of
31:58
being a smart
31:59
smart grid or in micro grid. So smart
32:02
meters are definitely required to understand the real
32:04
time again.
32:05
Improved efficiency,
32:07
integration of renewable energy at what time we
32:09
can you know, switch to renewable energy from
32:11
the utility provided
32:13
electricity or even for the chilled water. And
32:16
smart meters also helps, like, an example on
32:20
on know, tangible
32:22
let's if it's a chilled water. We have
32:24
it a cooling provider.
32:26
Okay? And they are providing chilled water and
32:29
constant meter data management and billing the customers.
32:33
If there is, delay in the payment.
32:36
So that can be, you know, granted. If
32:38
there is
32:39
low delta penalties are added now. If that
32:41
is not happening from the
32:43
end user,
32:45
they can you switch off
32:46
the,
32:48
providing the chilled water to the tenant. So
32:50
that... I mean, there are a lot of
32:52
other areas which can be added, but that's
32:54
the main cracks, I can say,
32:56
without smart meters difficult to have a smart
32:59
grid. So that's the way forward.
33:01
Za, how crucial is the role control system
33:05
in smart grid infrastructure?
33:08
I can say control system is the main
33:11
correct again, I mean, it is it is
33:13
several reasons are there. I mean, number 1
33:15
can be the grid stability and liability.
33:19
Okay. Without the control system, the whole smart
33:21
grid cannot, you know, complete its its function.
33:25
And number 2, with integration of renewable energy,
33:29
like I said.
33:30
Integration of renewable energy requires the control system
33:33
to be the most optimum to understand
33:36
what
33:37
time of the day, which type of energy
33:39
is more efficient or more
33:42
less
33:43
expensive
33:44
that control system is the 1 which decides,
33:46
and then fault detection, management of fall detection,
33:50
demand response
33:52
management. For example, control system facilitates the demand
33:54
response program,
33:56
enhanced
33:58
grid
33:59
reliability,
34:00
decision analytics, like what Christie was mentioning. So
34:03
same thing which is coming through smart meters
34:06
and their control systems.
34:09
Analytics decision making support. So in in in
34:12
summary control system forms the
34:14
backbone of,
34:16
smart grid infrastructure. Making it more energy efficient,
34:20
more reliable,
34:22
making the operations of electricity grid more
34:25
reliable.
34:26
Managing the complexities
34:27
of modern energy systems,
34:30
integrating renewable energy and
34:32
meeting the evolving needs of consumers and utilities
34:35
to understand on this 1. So where data
34:38
analytics part
34:40
is required. This is where main,
34:42
you know,
34:43
control system, it's it does based on Ai
34:46
and,
34:47
machine learning process, which can help in improving
34:50
the grid efficiency.
34:53
If it is installed at,
34:55
major info... Utility level or even if it
34:57
is installed at micro grid level at the,
34:59
you know, building level. So both cases,
35:02
control systems are definitely required?
35:05
So how does policy framework and regulations so
35:08
port in establishing smart grid technologies.
35:12
Again, this is
35:13
very crucial
35:15
policy because if we don't have proper policies,
35:18
there will be a lot of, you know,
35:20
mismanagement or abuse of the system. Number 1
35:23
smart meters, 1 of the
35:25
areas is, you know, it can be easily
35:28
hacked,
35:29
not easily. I mean, depending on the infrastructure
35:31
we have or different types. So most of
35:33
the major manufacturers,
35:35
they're having systems in place where
35:38
you know, cyber cybersecurity hack has become very
35:40
very, very common nowadays. So,
35:42
again, most of the
35:45
projects or utilities where I have been involved.
35:48
I have seen... They have already started to
35:50
work on bringing
35:52
control mechanism. So policies are required to, you
35:55
know, establishing regulatory
35:57
standards
35:57
in the
35:59
interoperability
36:00
or compatibility among different,
36:03
smart gate technologies, different manufacturers,
36:05
and then having cyber cybersecurity data, privacy and
36:08
data security.
36:09
Because that is 1 area where it is,
36:13
I can say, having vulnerabilities,
36:16
Okay? And then,
36:18
consumer protection
36:20
is 1 area which is
36:23
where
36:24
regulations and framework helps. In setting it up,
36:26
and then adding incentives and rebates. That is
36:28
the main most common.
36:30
So if if there is no regulations of
36:32
framework in place, utility providers may not you
36:35
know, go into that level of providing the
36:38
details of
36:41
smart grids and improving energy efficiency, ultimately. So
36:44
definitely. I mean, regulations
36:46
are the,
36:49
minimum basic
36:50
requirements. So that utility providers we country,
36:54
everyone moves towards meeting their goals of energy
36:57
efficiency. What are some challenges or barriers holding
37:00
up the adoption of smart grid technology is.
37:04
Taking from my previous answer, I believe first
37:06
1 is regulatory.
37:07
Okay? So that is not in place in
37:09
most of the places. So if that technology
37:10
comes into picture, then everyone involved around the
37:14
ecosystem will start adopting the smart grid systems.
37:17
This is number 1.
37:18
Number 2 costing and funding, this is another
37:21
issue, I believe, the cost
37:23
is slightly higher. So depending on the type,
37:27
and the
37:29
application where it is being used,
37:31
the cost and funding has become an issue.
37:33
But now
37:34
lot of
37:35
governments have started to provide incentives and funding
37:39
to go on this 1. So that is
37:41
1 helpful.
37:42
Also taking from my previous I'm answer cyber
37:45
security concerns. This is 1 area, which is
37:47
becoming,
37:48
or challenges of adopting, this smart grid.
37:54
Lastly, I mean, what I believe, not lastly,
37:57
maybe we can add more points, but I
37:59
believe the major concern is
38:01
not everyone, like what Christy was mentioning earlier.
38:04
Not everyone is into data analytics.
38:06
We don't have many companies. So there is
38:08
a lot... Lot of data. I mean, to
38:10
give an example, we are working with 1
38:12
of the organizations. They have data for every.
38:15
Second, even they're going micro second level. But
38:18
then nobody is there to analyze this data.
38:20
So that has become 1 of the challenges
38:23
because
38:24
organizations, they don't know what to do with
38:26
the data. So, there should be, you know,
38:28
some kind of,
38:31
support provided or incentives to... Or some companies
38:35
who are working with the end users to
38:38
analyze the data, give them Like, again, K
38:41
was mentioning into graphs and images where it's
38:44
easily easily comprehend.
38:47
So people they understand what...
38:49
And while this has been implemented, how it
38:51
can help us. So current, 1 of the
38:53
the challenges I've seen is not everyone at
38:56
the ground level or the field level is
38:58
ready, they don't understand the benefits of this
39:00
kind of system. So that is becoming again
39:03
connection to the, cost of the system. So
39:05
if if people are more, you, more and
39:07
more, awareness and training has to be provided,
39:10
which I believe is in,
39:12
in in in the pipeline. A lot of
39:14
trainings are being done.
39:16
So that that will definitely help,
39:20
bring up or remove this challenge of,
39:23
adopting these smart grid technologies.
39:25
I think a good way to end our
39:27
podcast today is to talk a little bit
39:29
about the technology,
39:31
Chrissy, what are some of the securities that
39:34
consider? Operations for advanced metering infrastructure? And how
39:37
can we ensure the integrity of meter data?
39:40
Yeah. And so it's an excellent question and
39:43
an applies to everything that we've talked about
39:45
today because we've we've talked about central data
39:48
collectors. We've talked about cloud.
39:50
So I like to think local and then
39:53
move out from there. So local I mean
39:55
like, on...
39:56
You're generally gonna have pieces of equipment, You're
39:58
gonna have sub meters. You're gonna have trans
40:00
you're you can have. Central data collectors that
40:01
are gonna collect that data.
40:03
It starts honestly with something as simple as
40:06
locking that central data collect are up in
40:08
a box on site with just giving the
40:10
property manager or maybe the chief engineer a
40:13
key.
40:14
And then with that central data collector, it's
40:16
sell, we like to use cell modems. We
40:19
don't like to piggyback off of tenant or
40:21
building owners Wifi,
40:24
And so with the cellular modem, you've got
40:27
additional security there. And then you have to
40:29
worry about the transmission of the data itself.
40:32
You want that to be secure. And so
40:33
there's a number of different ways to achieve
40:35
that from secure F ftp file transfers
40:38
towards sophisticated
40:40
encryption. But the central data collector that you
40:43
use, it will specify the kinds of encryption
40:46
technology that it has and you always wanna
40:48
pay attention to that. And then the final
40:51
piece is the security of where the data
40:53
ends up, which is usually the cloud. We
40:55
don't see a lot of clients these days
40:57
who want an on site server like they
40:58
use to. Most clients trust the cloud these
41:01
days. And there is any number of security
41:05
organizations that dictate processes and standards to govern
41:09
and how this data is stored and protected
41:11
you got Iso and Pci,
41:14
soc to, Sv,
41:16
you've got, Is, the National Institute of standards
41:18
and technology, all kinds of different security organizations
41:22
that that dictate standards on processes to protect
41:25
that data.
41:26
So these are all things that you have
41:28
to look at even with something as simple
41:30
as your K is and your the and
41:33
your your k gal that are being transmitted.
41:35
I think everything is covered by Christie.
41:38
Maybe 1 more thing might be, you know,
41:40
some governments have...
41:43
Compliance and standards. So if if we are
41:45
following the compliance requirement or regulatory requirements,
41:50
most of the items will be covered, but
41:52
like like Christy mentioned, cyber cybersecurity, physical,
41:55
security firmware
41:57
encryption. All all all things covered by Christy
41:59
is,
42:01
is, you know, perfect answer to this this
42:03
question.
42:05
Well, thank you both for sharing your insights
42:08
and talking about how real time data collection.
42:10
And plays this crucial role for effective energy
42:14
management. This has been full of energy and
42:16
A podcast. We'll see you next month.